A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[danakillsu]

vote: CCARaven4

for being too cheap to get a Wii too.

Raise: Super Smash Bros. Fan

because I'm one as well.

[danakillsu]

Everybody raising themselves is stupid for trying to say others are scum. Not everyone can raise themselves, or nobody will get the double vote.

[danakillsu]

But not everyone is raising themselves... And, I don't see anyone that is raising himself/herself to try and say others are scum. They may be doing it to say "I'm not scum" but not the other way around.

Sigh. I'm not saying everyone is doing it. Try reading my post again assuming I'm not saying that. Also, try reading post 23, which FoS's everyone not raising themselves. Reading comprehension ftw.

unvote vote: xvart

Because of this and the fact that he's already bandwagon voting.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
I do not find your answer to my case on you satisfactory or clear. Please make it more so.
@all
I just don't get the self raising idea. I understand that you know your alignment, but not everyone can raise themselves. When you do this, you leave the raising to others, which doesn't help town if you are town or scum if you are scum. So no matter who you are, it doesn't help! Now start figuring out who you actually want to raise.

unraise raise: Lynch

for actually starting to think about it.

[danakillsu]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

??
??
??
That's about all I have to say about that...

[danakillsu]

I agree with Drippereth, for the record. I have no reason to dislike their play, and find what RichardGHP is doing somewhat scummy.

fos: RichardGHP

I'm still waiting, xvart.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
Yes. You misrepped me. I said that it was stupid to raise onesself and then say others are scummy. I didn't say that making others look scummy was the reason they were doing it. That is the second part of my case. Mainly my vote was a protest, and there's a lot more information to go on now, so

unvote

@all
vezopiraka does actually play like this. I'm not giving him town points for what he's done, but his bungling playstyle doesn't yet merit votes.
I think RichardGHP is probably the best scum candidate now.

vote: RichardGHP

Also, I kind of like the idea of just raising someone who knows what they are doing, so

unraise raise: Axelrod

(Not that I think Lynch doesn't know what he's doing, but Axelrod, I think, is a little bit better)

[danakillsu]

@mina
Admittedly, my raise and vote recently were with the crowd, but that's not my pattern.
Also, obviously we want to give the vote to a mediocre townie rather than a smart person we're not sure about. I just don't know that we have a for-sure townie option.
@MacavityLock
Yeah, I haven't mentioned you by name, because I prefer to let others figure out who I'm talking to rather than going back a page and finding out who said what, which is very annoying in the middle of writing a post. And I haven't fos'd you or voted you because "stupid"=/=scummy.

[danakillsu]

I would be in favor. Drippereth is a good alternative to CMAR or axelrod. If a few people decided to raise Drippereth, I would definitely do it, although I would prefer to raise axelrod. My reasoning is that I have no reason to believe Drippereth is scum, and they are definitely experienced enough to handle a double-vote properly.

[danakillsu]

He's at L-1, actually.

[danakillsu]

So I'll

unvote

. Consider yourself at L-1, though, Richard.

[danakillsu]

unraise raise: Drippereth

because they're the best realistic option.

vote: migewelloni

because it's not pro-town to put someone at L-1 who hasn't claimed, ESPECIALLY if the person doing it gives no good reason for it.

[danakillsu]

Dana sticks out to me as scum, btw.

"Oh look guys Richard's at L-1 so I'll unvote to show everyone how townie I am"

Classic scum tactic.

Oh, and would you rather I gave you a chance of getting hammered, just so I wouldn't do what scum "classicaly" do? This is ridiculous.

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

Sure, but it seems to me he claimed someone pretty important, so unless there's a counter-claim, I don't see how one could say it's false.

Why?

I have already discussed this. I believe Drippereth is town, definitely have no reason to call them scum, and know they can handle a double vote well. Besides the fact that others are willing to raise them.

[danakillsu]

So your reasoning for raising drip is:
1)You can't find anything scummy about them.
2) Know they can handle a double vote well. (Sounds subjective, care to embellish on this one)
3) And the fact that others are willing to raise them....not like theres scum amongst us **sarcasm**

So depending on some comment on #2, i'm sure points 1/3 could be made for others...so unless you have more to say here, I'm rather unimpressed.

Also, it'll be worth you mentioning about the fact that I, for one am quite against Drip getting the dbl vote, and others share this opinion. What is your opinion on that?

They can handle a dbl vote well because there are two of them and they are both very experienced.
It's your vote, your call. I'm not going to try to prove that Dripp is town, because that is impossible at this point in time.

danakillsu: As bad as I doubt it. FoS Richard because he agreed with Drippereth and thought he was somewhat scummy without really giving his own thoughts. Then said RichardGHP was the probable best lynch and votes him without really explaining in his own words, making me feel like he was bandwagonning him a bit. Like others, I also find it scummy that he took RichardGHP off L-1 just so Richard could claim.

Why do you find it scummy that I ensured RichardGHP would not be quicklynched? LOOK WHO HE TURNED OUT TO BE! We also hadn't decided who to raise as Hand yet. I help town a lot and it's scummy. Go figure. I will do this again next time I have the opportunity, despite what others might think.

[danakillsu]

The fact that theres 2 of them makes it worse. (too many chefs in the kitchen) Conflicting mentalities.

I disagree with this. I think being a Hydra is an advantage.

I'm not asking you to prove it, just show me anything that gave you town vibes.

And you failed to comment on the fact that the other (more)experienced players are against Drip gaining the double vote. Is that meaningless to you?

Alright. The fact that they have been making a detailed list of players whom they find town, scum, and neutral. It is very useful to other players to see where Dripp stands. No, it's not meaningless, but I don't get as much of a town read on those players.

That wasn't the only thing I found scummy. I found your vote scummy because you failed to provide your own thoughts on why you found RichardGHP scummy while at least half the twelve other people on the bandwagon have done so.

I'm know I'm going to sound like I'm contradicting what I said to Percy in this post, but I find that L-1 removal scummy because it seems like you're trying to buy RichardGHP some more time to claim and save himself by taking him off L-1. If he's at L-1, keep him there. Now yes, some votes were unwarranted, but he did deserve to have to claim to save his own butt.

I understand the first part, but that's not what we're talking about right now.

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what I was trying to do. And why does buying him more time to claim and save himself seem scummy to you? You're acting like you wish I hadn't given him time to claim, and that he had been lynched without doing so. That's extremely scummy. And he had to claim to save his own butt anyway, as evidenced by the fact that he DID.

unvote vote: SSBF

Still up for a Migwelloni lynch, but SSBF saying I shouldn't have taken my vote away seems really wrong.

[danakillsu]

1. If RichardGHP were to flip scum, that would establish a connection between you and RichardGHP because you unvoted him just so he could claim.

2. Even if RichardGHP was kept at L-1, people would be smart to look at the latest vote count anyway and he would have probably claimed anyway. Thus, we would have gotten the exact same result. He did not need your help by taking him off L-1.

3. That sounds like a nice big OMGUS vote on me. Your case on me is not very good and you're voting me based off disagreements, not on scummy behavior.

1. This doesn't explain why you find my doing it scummy. This only says "If he flips scum" (which btw, is pretty much impossible) "you're scum"
2. You don't understand. This is what TOWNIES would do if someone was at L-1. SCUM would just hammer him into oblivion, which is why I took away my vote. And if he didn't need my help, why is it scummy that I gave it to him?
3. It's not an OMGUS because you're not voting for me, and it's not just disagreement because your opinions on my actions are inherently scummy.

FoS: Kleedrac

for reasons already mentioned by others. I will iso him and see if I find anything of value myself.

[danakillsu]

As far as I'm concerned you're all scum atm.

? Everyone is scum? That's news to me.

You seem to have adopted not only hydra heads but also a spaghetti case syndrome where you're throwing accusations at everything in site save the damned mod!

I really don't see this at all. Kleedrac is exaggerating a lot of stuff, and it's beginning to look like flailing to me.
That's about all I could find. I get a gut read of scum on Kleedrac, but since I haven't played with him before, I have no idea if it's enough to merit a vote.

[danakillsu]

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you stopped pretending to be a newbie?

I think it would be even better for everyone if you stopped pretending you know what my motivations are. I have no idea what you are talking about, or how you came to this conclusion. A newbie doesn't play remotely like I am playing.

Do you mean "look who he claimed to be"? Why do you assume he's telling the truth?

No, I mean who he turned out to be. There's no way he's lying when he claimed whom he claimed without a C-C. Do you doubt his claim?

[danakillsu]

Kleedrac needs to be lynched folks. We aren't getting any younger, and for some of us that's a real problem.

QFTQFTQFT!

unvote, vote: Kleedrac
Most of your posts have been absolutely terrible.

QFTQFTQFT!
What can I say that hasn't been said? Let's lynch Kleedrac, but at least not before everyone makes a final decision on whom to raise.

[danakillsu]

Then why aren't you voting him?

I have no idea. I must have had site problems, thought I had already posted my vote, and not actually done it.

unvote vote: Kleedrac

In fact, I remember what was in that post, but it must have somehow never gotten actually posted...

[danakillsu]

danakillsu has played in about 25+ games on mafiascum.net, has a gut read of scum on someone, but says he's not voting that person because he has no experience with said player instead of something definitive like "this wagon is better" or "I don't see the case on him." I have no experience with danakillsu but I can easily go find a couple of his 20-something games and get experience with him because I'm not lazy in my scum hunting. Also, it was a lame way to acknowledge the wagon without boarding it or resisting it. Laundering is my new favorite word these days.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. All I had at that point was gut, and that wasn't enough for me, not knowing how Kleedrac plays. Sorry if that's a problem for you, but it's certainly not acting like I'm a newbie.

[danakillsu]

Look, I already said that a post where I made a case against Kleedrac was deleted, and it's going to be a pain to write it again. So just settle down for a minute.
My case on Kleedrac:
1) Constant overreaction/overstatement. Example: iso 2
2) Assuming everyone is scum until proven town (that's not how to play mafia) iso 5.
3) Hypocrisy. Example: saying Drippereth throws accusations everywhere (untrue) while saying everyone is scum.
4) Raising someone just to make sure Drippereth doesn't get raised, because Drippereth says Kleedrac is scum (OMGUS) iso 8.
5) Tries a rather defeatist lash-out against Drippereth, hoping to at least get him lynched too (iso 10)
6) Essentially gives up on using logic and reason, the only means to catch scum (iso 11)
At the very least, since he's already given up, he can't help town at all. But I think he's scum anyway.

[danakillsu]

Locke:
Could you describe your old avatar for me? Seems I've played with you before, but I usually remember people by their avatars.

~Bender from Futurama iirc

[danakillsu]

Agree with xvart. Why do I have reason not to doubt his claim? Why would I expect a counterclaim here even if he was scum? Fake claims in games like are standard practice, and Renly being one of them wouldn't shock me to my core.

I guess it's possible it's a fake claim. I have to admit that, obviously. And maybe it is considered by some to be probable. But from my perspective (not knowing the books really well) it seems like this is a pretty important character, and that a claim of him should not be taken lightly.

[danakillsu]

btw, anyone notice how scummy xvart is acting in relation to me? I make three excellent points (if I do say so myself) some of them with questions, and when he pops up again, he talks about only two things. One was my paranthetical statement in the first point, not the first point itself, and the other was my response to a point somebody ELSE made about my post. In other words, he never dealt with any of my three actual points. Talk about selective responses. Wish I could vote for both him and Kleedrac.

[danakillsu]

Italics added for context. It seems to me he'd rather just go with the flow of the masses than really try to put forth anything himself

Sorry, but your context doesn't seem to have any bearing on what you actually say about my raise vote. However, in the quote above, you're saying something about me that is true, but not conclusive. Sure, I voted along with other people rather than proposing my own candidate, but you have to ask yourself if my REASONS are good enough. And I have given my reasons, more than once. At this point in the day, I don't really think some new hand wagon is going to start and suddenly elect a different person. I think we're looking at Percy, Drippereth, or xvart as the Hand, and out of those, I choose Drippereth.

[danakillsu]

How so?
That is, tell me something you have learnt from their scum/town lists.

When questioned about his vehement support of the wagon on Kleedrac in every way but his vote, dana produces this case. I think the order here may be important, but I'm interested in hearing Kleedrac's reaction.

I have learned how they think of other players. That in itself is very important. People like vezopiraka can never come across as very townie because no one knows what they actually think, they just mindlessly follow the crowd.
If you're talking about the order of my points against Kleedrac, you're wrong about it being important. It's simply chronological.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
Yes, iso 15. You completely ignored my arguments on the subject of our discussion. No, it's not supposed to change your opinion on me, but it is something you should have answered long ago. Now stop stalling. As for my votes, I don't really get why you think they're scummy, but I've given my reasons for all of them except maybe the Richard one, and there were lots of reasons given by others for him, so there wasn't much new I could say.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
You're right... it was SSBF that was ignoring my points. Sorry for the misundertanding. But didn't you get involved in that conversation, anyway? Or is that just me?
@SSBF
Consider everything I've been saying to xvart as directed to you.

[danakillsu]

Yes, the surge of votes away from Kleedrac leaves me wondering as well. What makes Raivann a better lynch than Kleedrac?

[danakillsu]

As far as I can tell, we haven't had any votes move from Kleedrac to Raivann - three votes have moved from others to Raivann. Unless you're wondering why people are moving votes from others to Raivann, in which case I posit the following:

Yes, I simply meant the surge of votes toward Raivann instead of Kleedrac, who is only L-6. Here's what I see as our options today:
1) Lynch Richard. IMHO, not a good idea.
2) Lynch Kleedrac. If you believe he's scummy, why not? He's not going to help town even if we keep him alive, since he's given up on posting. And if he's scum, he'll probably do just as much harm as Raivann-scum would.
3) Lynch Raivann. But if we don't do this today, even if he's scum, it probably won't hurt us.
End result: IF you don't want to lynch Richard after his claim, and IF you find Kleedrac nearly as scummy as Raivann, you should be voting for Kleedrac.

[danakillsu]

Dana: what's your reasoning for Kleedrac hurting us more if he's scum than Raivann? Your post only seems to have the reason that Kleedrac isn't posting any more. Is that it?

I'm not saying he will hurt us more as scum, just that he WON'T hurt us LESS. However, if he is TOWN, Kleedrac will do much less for us than Raivann will if Raivan is TOWN. In other words, Kleedrac-scum is approximately equal to Raivann-scum. Kleedrac-town << Raivann-town. Therefore, if Kleedrac is equally scummy to Raivann, we should lynch Kleedrac. Do I make myself clear? Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

[danakillsu]

And, hi Kinetic. I can't say I loved your predecessor, but it will be nice to meet a new player.

[danakillsu]

Dana: what's your reasoning for Kleedrac hurting us more if he's scum than Raivann? Your post only seems to have the reason that Kleedrac isn't posting any more. Is that it?

I'm not saying he will hurt us more as scum, just that he WON'T hurt us LESS. However, if he is TOWN, Kleedrac will do much less for us than Raivann will if Raivan is TOWN. In other words, Kleedrac-scum is approximately equal to Raivann-scum. Kleedrac-town << Raivann-town. Therefore, if Kleedrac is equally scummy to Raivann, we should lynch Kleedrac. Do I make myself clear? Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

What sets them apart as townies? I mean, how/why is Raivann going to do any more for the town than Kleedrac would? quote]
Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?

[danakillsu]

Okay, that time, the forum messed it up FOR me somehow, because I know I didn't mess with the quote braces.

[danakillsu]

"danakillsu (2) -xvart, Paranoia, Raivann"
Is this correct? Did someone lose their vote for today?

[danakillsu]

Oh, and one more thing. We only have six days, so if most people want to lynch Raivann, I suggest they begin doing so. Otherwise, just vote for Kleedrac.

[danakillsu]

" If you have any friends urge them to replace in! "
I think I know someone who might be interested...

[danakillsu]

Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?

Kleedrac is getting replaced, anyway, so this argument doesn't work.

Are you sure? Eddard Stark doesn't seem to be saying this. If Kleedrac is replaced with someone decent, I'd be just as down for a Raivann lynch I guess. But my point about the timing is still valid.
And I'm talking about my June 13, 8:31 PM post. And Mikujin was bashing Raivann.

[danakillsu]

What about the replacement for Kleedrac makes what you say is his scummy play disappear?

Sigh. Why doesn't anyone get what I've said from the beginning? MY POINT IS THAT KLEEDRAC-SCUM is roughly equal to Raivann-scum, and both have good reasoning for their wagons. Therefore if Kleedrac is replaced, making "Kleedrac"-town at least as good as Raivann-town, then I'd be fine with lynching either.

I fail to see how making a case out on Raivann should be interpreted as "bashing" him. Care to explain?

Did you read the context in which I said that? I was saying that you were bashing him for messing up on what I said. I will stick with that statement, though it may not mean the same thing to you that it means to me. I meant that you were calling him scummy for something that wasn't scummy in my book, and doing it with gusto.

[danakillsu]

- in particular, I don't know what dana thinks of Raivann at all, only that Raivann may be in some people's eyes as scummy as Kleedrac. This is scummy hedging.

Well I think you could have seen this in my earlier posts, but just to make it clear for you, I think he's as scummy as Kleedrac. I think the reasoning for lynching either would be the same. Therefore, I would lynch either one if Kleedrac was posting as much content as Raivann, but he's not. So I would rather lynch Kleedrac. If Kleedrac is replaced with someone that posts content and some others would be willing to do the same (so that we don't waste a day) I would be willing to lynch Raivann.

[danakillsu]

@danakillsu: Something isn't adding up.
danakillsu wrote:
I'm not saying he will hurt us more as scum, just that he WON'T hurt us LESS. However, if he is TOWN, Kleedrac will do much less for us than Raivann will if Raivan is TOWN. In other words, Kleedrac-scum is approximately equal to Raivann-scum. Kleedrac-town << Raivann-town. Therefore, if Kleedrac is equally scummy to Raivann, we should lynch Kleedrac. Do I make myself clear? Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.
You make a point that you are engaging in hypotheticals, and that you dismiss the point on Raivann as null. Then:
danakillsu wrote:
If Kleedrac is replaced with someone decent, I'd be just as down for a Raivann lynch I guess.
Now, this is where things get weird:
danakillsu wrote:
Sigh. Why doesn't anyone get what I've said from the beginning? MY POINT IS THAT KLEEDRAC-SCUM is roughly equal to Raivann-scum, and both have good reasoning for their wagons. Therefore if Kleedrac is replaced, making "Kleedrac"-town at least as good as Raivann-town, then I'd be fine with lynching either.
This is not what you've been saying from the beginning, especially the bolded.
So, why the turnaround?
Also, why is Raivann as scummy as Kleedrac?

How is it not what I've been saying? The quotes you have seem to be saying the same thing to me. Raivann is at least almost as scummy as Kleedrac for the same reasons. Raivann hasn't made a decent post that helps town, has accused others with little-to-no reasoning, and spent most of his time apologizing and sarcastically describing others' posts.

[danakillsu]

By the way, just catching up on something from ages ago...

Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

Sorry, which post are you talking about? Who's suspecting Raivann for "messing up"?

Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?

Kleedrac is getting replaced, anyway, so this argument doesn't work.

Are you sure? Eddard Stark doesn't seem to be saying this. If Kleedrac is replaced with someone decent, I'd be just as down for a Raivann lynch I guess. But my point about the timing is still valid.
And I'm talking about my June 13, 8:31 PM post. And Mikujin was bashing Raivann.

I finally got around to checking your post, and this is what it said:

Yes, I simply meant the surge of votes toward Raivann instead of Kleedrac, who is only L-6. Here's what I see as our options today:
1) Lynch Richard. IMHO, not a good idea.
2) Lynch Kleedrac. If you believe he's scummy, why not? He's not going to help town even if we keep him alive, since he's given up on posting. And if he's scum, he'll probably do just as much harm as Raivann-scum would.
3) Lynch Raivann. But if we don't do this today, even if he's scum, it probably won't hurt us.
End result: IF you don't want to lynch Richard after his claim, and IF you find Kleedrac nearly as scummy as Raivann, you should be voting for Kleedrac.

Where do you mention anything about "messing up" or "nulltells"? You just give strategic reasons to vote Kleedrac or Raivann. I feel as though I'm missing a step in your logic.

You asked which post Raivann messed up ON. I gave it to you. What is this crap about mentioning something about messing up or null tells in the post?

[danakillsu]

@danakillsu: You started with an "IF you find Raivann as scummy as Kleedrac", a hypothetical. You also say his messing up is a null tell.
Then, you say you would be down for a Raivann lynch - you guess.
And now: your scumread on Raivann has always been equal to your scumread on Kleedrac?
You're retconning your read here. I also don't like this:
danakillsu wrote:
Raivann is at least almost as scummy as Kleedrac
At least almost?! More weaselling.

Yes, my scumread on Raivann has always been approximately equal to my scumread on Kleedrac. There's nothing false there. And as far as "at least almost", you got a better way to say that? I think Raivann could be said to be as scummy as Kleedrac, but not scummier. I personally think he's a little bit less scummy, which is why I'm voting for Kleedrac. Why can't you seem to wrap your mind around that? Since everyone's calling you smart town and raising you, you seem to have gotten a bit cocky and seem to think you can just call the shots and everyone will follow you.

[danakillsu]

Hey, guys, we have three days to lynch someone. So everyone should be on the CMAR wagon, the Raivann wagon, or the Budja wagon. NO EXCEPTIONS. We don't have time to mess around with someone else. Just decide which is scummiest and lynch them, because we can't afford to have a no lynch.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
It was hypothetical. Talking about "Kleedrac"-town doesn't mean that I think he is town, it's just saying if he WAS town, etc. This is how the phrase is used across the board, so I really don't know where you got your crazy ideas.

[danakillsu]

@danakillsu: Your reads are not consistent. Your bluster doesn't change that. You're hedging your bets and weaselling on Raivann. Read xvart's interpretation if you're still confused, but you just ignored it in your latest post and answered the other question with more weaselling. Scummy

Why don't you quote anything in this post? All you're doing is saying my defense hasn't swayed you, and is in fact scummy without showing why. And I don't know what this "other question" is. I believe my reads are in fact consistent, and you're the one who has to prove otherwise, which you have not done. I will not reply to you any longer if you can't stop being vague and/or accusing me baselessly.
I don't think we should lynch CMAR today, because he always plays the way he's playing now, but a lynch of him would be better than no lynch, so go for it, if you must. My vote stays on Budja.

[danakillsu]

It just doesn't make sense because you are saying that the lynch should be Kleedrac because if Kleedrac is town it's not as big a deal as opposed to lynching town-Raivann. Is that a correct interpretation?

This seems to be correct. Don't forget, however, that I do find both scummy, and Kleedrac perhaps a little scummier.

unvote vote:Raivann

Since there's almost no one on the Budja wagon anymore.
And Percy, again, don't bother saying anything to me unless you actually prove something instead of just stating it. You STILL have not quoted any posts where I changed my mind or contradicted myself, but you want to call me Raivann's scumpal.

fos: Percy

[danakillsu]

unvote vote:Budja

I don't know that Richard's claim is conflicting, could someone please explain that to me?
@mod
Your votecount has various problems involving Mina.

Fixed?

[danakillsu]

unvote vote:Richard

I agree with the reasons given by others that his claim is probably not true. If he flips town, we'll know that Raivann is probably scum. If he flips scum we'll know that Raivann is probably town.
@Raivann
It probably is a good idea to tell us who you plan to kill tonight. It will at least tell us if you have an NK. You should wait for others to agree, but I can't think of anything wrong with this. It is very rare for scum to be able to save each other specifically (as in a doc), and mafia wouldn't try to kill that person to make you look like a vig, because if you are a vig, scum wants us to think you're not. So I really see no way that scum could use this to their advantage unless you are scum.

[danakillsu]

Dana wrote:
I agree with the reasons given by others that his claim is probably not true. If he flips town, we'll know that Raivann is probably scum. If he flips scum we'll know that Raivann is probably town.

Your flip conjecture here ignores the possibility of a multi-scum environment or Raivann as a potential SK. Any reason for that?

No. I just didn't think about it in that complex a way. But when I say "Raivann is probably scum" that should be read to encompass SK's. And as far as I know it all still holds true if there are multiple scum factions.

Is there anything Pro-Town about this statement? It’s at best childish. If you are serious that you think that Percy is mis-representing you or outright lying in his statements regarding you why don’t you demonstrate it yourself, with “proof”?

Perhaps not from your view, but I refuse to let Percy rule the town and just honor any baseless accusations he may make with a full-blown defense. Nobody should believe him anyway if he gives no proof, so there's really no reason to take the time to disprove anything he says. Besides, it would be really hard to simply disprove his assertion that I am scum, probably impossible, since there's nothing to disprove.

Solid catch there. @dana - any comment on this assessment?

Yes. It no longer applies. You may quote me on that.

Potential vig targets: CMAR, Richard, danakillsu, vezo

What one post gives you a scum read on me?

[danakillsu]

I will be back about 6:00 Central Time. If CMAR hasn't claimed or been lynched, I will be ready to drop the hammer about then. I still think we should lynch Budja or Richard, but we definitely need to lynch someone.

[danakillsu]

Alright, I don't have time to scumhunt atm, so I'll just say what I think about the case on me. The case on me boils down to the fact that I did not make clear enough that I found Raivann scummy until pressed for my opinion on him. And since Raivann is apparently scum, people are saying I must be his scumbuddy. That's a pretty poor case. I can't disprove that these things happened, because I was unclear. But I certainly didn't contradict myself in reference to him, I just didn't express my opinion of him until asked. I don't really see how I have to be his scumbuddy just because I didn't say much about him, and then said he was scummy. That just happens all the time.

[danakillsu]

@Axelrod
What is your problem? I already admitted everything you said in that post. I want to know how it makes me scum. How do you know what I thought about Raivann being scum if I never dealt with the issue until after getting pressured? You're just assuming that because I wasn't clear, I must have known he was scum, which really doesn't make much sense.

[danakillsu]

@Idoubtit
You must be stupid. You're just restating the facts again without telling me how they make me scum.
@All (Drippereth especially)
Explain to me how it WOULD have hurt us to not lynch Raivann

D1

even if he had not been NK'd. What I was saying was just that we could lynch him tomorrow.

[danakillsu]

vote:SSBF

for reasons mentioned and because his reasons for voting for me are horrible. The "guess who flipped town and who flipped scum" is ridiculous, because my saying Kleedrac-town was worse than Raivann-town had nothing to do with which way they actually flipped.
@Axelrod
I did in fact change my mind after asking why people were voting for Raivann because of the answers they gave.
Still, nobody has explained why I have to be scum from my actions, instead choosing to continually say it makes me look bad, which I already know, considering how many people are voting for me. Vezo's vote on me is bull, btw.

[danakillsu]

@all
Any thoughts on the post above? I don't really get it.
@CSL
It's bull because he votes for me with no reasoning of his own, unless you count "you like Raivann, don't you" which is stupid in itself. There is nothing that proves I "like" Raivann. And "liking" him can mean a lot of different things, most of which would not make me scum.

[danakillsu]

@Benmage
Anything interesting to say, or are you just going to blindly follow the town? I see no reason not to claim now, so here it is:
I am Brynden Tully, Innocent Aligned. I used to be a Gate Knight, but quit because of Lysa. Now I fight for Westeros. Each night I can jail someone, protecting them from an NK, but also roleblocking them.

[danakillsu]

Last night, I did this to Drippereth, on whom I have a townread, to save him from being NK'd. I also didn't think he was a town PR.

[danakillsu]

It IS my style to only give one or two townreads. My ability is just called "jail", and the flavor connection to that ability is that I was a Gate Knight. That's not EXACTLY what he called me, but I don't want to quote my PM.

[danakillsu]

@CSL
Well, there's always investigation...
Your vote is blatant bw'ing.

[danakillsu]

This is a bit ridiculous, you have to admit. From my side of things, I give you all that I can from my PM without just quoting it, the flavor and role fit, the character is real, I know nothing about these books, and the votes continue to pile up. I don't really know what I did that was scummy, since no one will explain to me why my behavior is seen that way, and there's really nothing I can do other than say "go town, you're lynching one of your PR's".

[danakillsu]

@CSL
Why would you stab me? I'm about to be lynched from anything anyone can see.
Also, why would you tell everyone whether you had abilities before? That seems somewhat stupid.
@Thor
I can see it makes me LOOK bad, because a lot of people are voting for me. That doesn't mean I'm scum....
@Thor and Percy
You two have been pressuring me so much that I say things that SEEM inconsistent. It's ridiculous. You say, "This is scummy". Then I say "Anyone could do that. This is my perspective". Then you say "That's retconning. Lynch him". What am I supposed to do other than tell you what I thought at the time? However, the things I have said are NOT inconsistent. I thought Raivann was scummy, but didn't make that very obvious. I asked everyone why they were voting for him INSTEAD of Kleedrac, with the implication that Kleedrac was a better lynch. The responses I got convinced me that Raivann was scummier than I originally thought. But I still wanted to lynch Kleedrac/Budja more.
I stabbed SSBF.

[danakillsu]

@ Thor
Of course you don't get what I'm driving at, you want me lynched. Fair enough. I know you're smart enough to see what I'm saying.
@MagnaofIllusion
Your use of my choice of Drippereth as an argument against me is poor. He is obviously from my posts the player I consider most town, so I would want to protect him. If I was scum, I would have a fakeclaim of Tulley, Jailkeeper, and would have to give someone's name, so I would give the name of the player whom I had called a townie the most, which is the same person. So either way, I would say the same thing. How does saying it make me scummier?

[danakillsu]

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

Um... what? What makes you think that I would stab CSL if I was scum? And I said I stabbed SSBF, so I certainly didn't SAY I stabbed CSL. I really don't see this at all.
@Thor
Top suspects in my next post.
@ SSBF
Apparently, you are correct. I'm glad you caught that. I thought that vezok's vote on me was part of your post, which was directly before it. Go and look at his vote, and you'll at least kind of understand why I made that mistake.

unvote

[danakillsu]

Number 1 scum: vezokpiraka
Votes for Raivann, unvotes him because of his claim, even though he thinks it's fake, then votes for someone else, while saying Raivann's still probscum but he might be wrong. Wow.

Vote: Vezokpiraka

Number 2 scum: Cow
Calls Raivann scum multiple times but never votes for him. Active lurker.
Number 3 scum: I doubt it
Votes for Raivann, unvotes him because of his claim, even though he doesn't really think the claim makes sense later.

[danakillsu]

@Thor
Any thoughts on my scumreads?
@ Cow
Who really cares whether you interpret your posts as only calling him scum once? I infer this in other posts, but even one is enough. And your active lurking is apparent in the few words that you actually have to say. This is true of vezo as well, of course.
@ diddin
Excellent analysis. I would be willing to lynch SSBF today, but I think he would be fourth on my list. I think the three I have mentioned do stranger things in relation to Raivann than either SSBF or me.

[danakillsu]

@Cow
Like I already said, it's not important whether you said it multiple times, but iso 20 seems to be telling vezo that Raivann is a good lynch, but doesn't need to be lynched right away. That's what I would mean by "patience", anyway.

[danakillsu]

@Thor
Of course I wasn't pushing vezo until you asked me. I wasn't pushing anyone until you asked me, because I was defending myself. Now that I realized someone actually cared who I thought was scum, I took some time to tell you. And the reason I wasn't VOTING for vezo was because I was mistakenly voting for SSBF partially because of his "vote" on me. Also, you're opinion of my Cow scumread is ridiculous. You're not choosing to deal with the read at face value, but rather telling me that he's not the lynch for today and that my read on him is unique. I think that you should look, if you haven't, at the way he deals with Raivann in this game.

[danakillsu]

danakillsu wrote:
I wasn't pushing anyone until you asked me, because I was defending myself. [*snip*] I wasn't VOTING for vezo was because I was mistakenly voting for SSBF partially because of his "vote" on me.
I will note both of those statements are admissions to actions that I consider scummy. I also wasn't the first person to point out that all you were doing was defending yourself.

Neither of these actions is scummy. The first was necessary. I didn't have a ton of time until today, so I needed to spend what time I had defending myself. The second was a mistake, not a scummy vote. Please read the actual conversation before calling what I did scummy.
@ mod
Please replace me. I will be gone for over three weeks, so I'm having to be replaced in all my games.

[danakillsu]

I am now going to nom MacavityLock if this hasn't already been done.