A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Deer

Not going to let you manipulate me again.

Raise: MagnaOfIllusion

For being a fan of long posts. I'm a fan of long posts as well.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: Like with Lynch Votes, are we allowed to unvote our votes for the new Hand of the King?

Mod: Correct, and now reflected in Day 1 post

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@DrModem:

Code: Select all

[quote="Insert Username"]

That's how you do quoting.

So we can self-raise, right? In that case...

Unraise: MagnaofIllusion

Raise: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Thoughts:
I don't see what contract exist in this game and if one does exist, I don't care. I just want to play the game.

I don't like how Drippereth is so serious about his case on Deer. So far, I have not see any scum tells that Deer has commited. Hopefully, this is how he plays instead of a gimmick he's trying to pull off. It's not really scummy now, but it's annoying.

Everybody raising themselves is stupid for trying to say others are scum. Not everyone can raise themselves, or nobody will get the double vote.

The reason why everyone is raising themself is because we have very little information to go on. We should start raising on other people once we're confident we have at least one town and scum read that is solified.

Vote: Super Smash Bros Fan.

You've never played a game with me so the fact that you know I like long posts indicates you've been heavily Wiki studying other players.

You are absolutely correct on this. Sometimes, it gives me some form of idea of what I should expect from you. I also read some of your posts and they're pretty long.

Only if you believe that meta is a strong scum-hunting tool. Which I don't. So in my eyes no, it's not a good thing.

I'm not those type of people who let meta dominate who I find suspicious, but saying that meta is a bad thing entirely is not true. Sure you shouldn't rely on it, but it can help give you the idea of how a player will play. For example, I am not voting Deer because he prefers smaller posts overall.

RVS for me doesn't end until Day 2

If we stay in RVS during Day 1, we will get very little information overall. Now I know RVS is fun and all, but seriously, we can't afford it to dominate the whole of Day 1.

I've played mafia on other sites.

I should say that there is no random vote "period" in my mind. I make one random vote unless something solid grabs my attention.

Really does contradict what you said earlier where you said RVS existed for you until Day 2. Then you turned back on saying there was no "Random Voting period" and you only make one random vote until you found something.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And my vote on Deer needs to go...

Unvote

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF: Why the unvote on Deer? Why a separate post from the big one previous?

1. To be honest, I can't really find anything that's scummy about Deer now. Maybe I need to re-read him in ISO. As for your second question, I felt a random vote on Deer was useless.

2. I was planning on waiting until tomorrow to unvote him, but I feel we are out of RVS already, so no need to keep my random vote on. I probably should have done it in my big post.

With that said, my first serious vote:

Vote: DrModem

For reasons in my first serious post here. Sorry but no N00bs Johns.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I see some stuff stays consistent between player sets.

Could you please explain further? You're not making much sense here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm still trying to figure out the impact of the raising a hand mechanic on the game. If we always vote for who we think is most town, we make NKs much easier for the scum. On the other hand, we certainly don't want scum double voters. I'm wondering if we wouldn't be better off casting our raise votes with a random number generator or abstaining from raising a hand at all. I really like the idea from a fluff perspective. Those who are raised to Hand probably won't last very long, which is very fitting.

I see your point there, but this is why Doctor is a role. The Doctor can protect the person with the double vote.

@everyone: I think that for the first day or in some cases if we don't want to raise a hand we can raise the one who will be lynched so nobody could die because of it.

How does this benefit us? If we raise a hand to the person that we think is the most likely scum, then that means we're putting a greater risk of scum having it then we're already in. Also, having a No Lynch Day 1 gives us very little information for us to go on.

@Percy: I'm pretty sure the mod said that if the Hand dies we'll have to raise a new one. It fits with the flavor, which is why I said I liked it from a fluff perspective. That is what I meant by "always".

You're skimming. Look at what MacavityLock quoted. That's why we have to be extremely careful with who we raise once we start to make informative decisions.

RichardGHP = definite scum for downplaying the Drippereth hydra's legendary, awesome scumhunting (we get ourselves NK'd pretty early). You are safe to assume that we are comprised of Ellibereth & DrippingGoofball mind meld. So really. The scum doesn't have a prayer.

Okay, this should be interesting. So DrippingGoofball and Ellibereth are hydra's? We might as well expect haliarity and game play we wouldn't really expect.

The question about self-raising here reads to me to be not genuine. By this time it was obvious that self-raising was allowed, so why the need to confirm question it and then self raise yourself? Are you scum that needs to reaffirm that it is okay to self-raise yourself?

I was kind of wondering why the mod would let us raise ourself. To be honest, I was kind of surprised that he would do that. However, just in case he wasn't lying and that I didn't have any reads at the time.

Now you could say that I contradicted myself as it was part of my big post, but when making decent-sized post, I tend to go on chronlogical order and I don't see these comments until I scroll through them. When I find something that worth responding too, I make a response to them. Basically, you can tell that at the beginning of my post that I had no reads. They slowly developed into get a slightly scummy read on DrModem.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Oooooooh, I HAVE A NICE FIND.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 75#2189675

Irrelavent to the game. I know DrippingGoofball plays a lot more randomly then this, but if you're going to contribute to the game, PLEASE use evidence from this game. This isn't contributing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why did the joke phase end so early? I had a few ridiculously funny things that I wanted to say. I guess I'll have to save them for my next game.

VOTE MIGWELLONI

for missing the joke phase

(facepalm)
Voting yourself during the Random Stage I don't really mind as it can help kickstart into serious discussions. Voting yourself now will not accomplish anything, especially not for your alignment.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

Does it matter that you get raised? No it doesn't. What matters is that we look for scums and lynch them. It looks like you're more concerned about having more votes then the situation of the town.

FoS: Vezopiraka

Oh and everyone, watch this from CryMeARiver:

Vote: Richard
Hey look, I just left the RVS, no random votes will be accepted from here on out without perfect reasoning. You know why? Because I said so and because I am Great and Badass alligned.
Raise: CryMeABadassRiver

CryMeARiver looked serious about the game from his first post. This is a really bad reason to vote a person. Now, look at this:

SSBF's is way too serious for me so I tend to get bad reads from him.

He said that my game play is way too serious.

This is hypocritical. He blames me for being too serious, yet he appeared serious from his very first post in this game.

FomS: CryMeARiver

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@vezopiraka: 1. There was no reason to double post about the same thing, especialyl since they were more then twenety minutes seperate from each other. If you're going to double post, give us something to work on.

2. Your last two posts contributed absolutely nothing to the game. So what if you don't know about the book? It doesn't matter. You should also not care if you think you're a royal figure. Stop stalling.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You consider that to be a serious post?

Really?

I thought it was funny to the point where I voted to Raise him as Hand. I didn't consider it serious at all.

I disagree. CryMeARiver looked pretty serious when he meant RVS was over. Here is where he further emphatize that RVS is over:

Again, pay attention, RVS = OVER

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Deer, Axelrod, DrModem, Kleedrac, Migwelloni, and Mikujin: What are your suspects? Name at least one and explain why you find the person suspicious.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

He was either distancing Eliball or protecting Richard.

On distancing: I really don't see where I distanced Drippereth. I found DrippingGoofball's play style originally annoying, but once I found out it was a hydra of Eil and DrippingGoofball, I realize I might as well deal with the play style. As for the reaction, I couldn't see why it was necessary to bring up Richard's hatered of policy lynches when it was like three months ago, you said it yourself it wouldn't really be called a scum tell.

On protecting Richard: I honestly can't see where I protected RichardGHP. So far, I do not have a read on him, but that's because I have other suspects to go after (CryMeARiver and Vezopiraka are examples).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

To not have a read on Richard in this game violates several laws of physics, I am sure.

Okay, so I do have a read on RichardGHP.

Drip, we get the point, my play is horrible and scum-like. Now can you please do some actual scumhunting?

This post is very scummy. It doesn't matter if your gameplay is scum-like and horrible, if you play badly, you will get lynched. Will need to re-read your posts.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I noticed that RichardGHP contradicted himself here:

@CMAR: I find it pretty hilarious that you have a "genuine scum read" on me when we're only on Page 3 and nothing has even happened yet. If you have actual reasons, I'd like to see them. Otherwise, stop trolling.

He's basically saying that he's laugh at CryMeARiver for having a genuine scum read on him. I don't agree with CryMeARiver's original reason for voting RichardGHP, but that doesn't mean we can't gather any information on the RVS posts. Then this quote...

Screw it

##Unvote Vote CMAR

Trying to lead town out of RVS on PAGE 2

, claiming he has a scumread on me when I haven't done anything wrong, and stating he knows "for a fact" that he is town. Oh, and the contract thing, too.

Seriously, what townie does all that?

He accused CryMeARiver for trying to lead town out of RVS at Page 2. While I do agree it eventually makes him hypocritical (See my post where I accuse CryMeARiver of beng hypocritical), RichardGHP contradicted his last post.

Along with his ISO: 14, I'm fairly suspicious of RichardGHP...

FoS: RichardGHP

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Another thing I noticed about ISO: 6 on RichardGHP: He basically did an OMGUS vote on CryMeARiver. Those reasons for voting him sucks.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF, 206: The vote was not OMGUS because I provided reasoning. You might think the reasoning sucks, but it's still valid and therefore not OMGUS.

Will respond to other posts later.

OMGUS is not solely referred to a vote. OMGUS also relates to filmsy attacks on a person who responded to them/voted them. Your reasonings sucked, therefore, it is OMGUS.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

First off, hasdgfas, welcome to the game. Your last post was pretty good, so I'll

Unvote

.

I don't understand the contradiction you're pointing out, SSBF. And a FoS? This smells like scum.

Let me explain the contradiction since you don't see it.

ISO: 5: RichardGHP called it halirious that CryMeARiver had a genuine scum read on him after page three, saying nothing has really happen yet.

ISO: 6: Votes CryMeARiver for trying to lead town out of RVS on Page 2.

Now why is this a contradiction? RichardGHP basically said he denided that you could get a genuine scum read on a person after page three, then back pedels himself by saying he didn't like CryMeARiver for trying to lead town out of RVS.

As for the FoS, I'm not sure why you consider that a problem (Maybe I didn't explain why I found it scummy). At the time, I considered your slot scummier then RichardGHP.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Has anyone noticed that Kleedrac has been lurking? He's checked into the Theme Park section of this game a few times, but never posted. Plus he hasn't posted snice June 2, 2010, which means he's up for prod. I think the mod need to send in some prods.

@Mod: Could you please prod anyone who hasn't been following the activity rule?

Mod ~ I'm a bit more forgiving (and a bit more absent myself) on weekends. But I'll be getting to those prods tomorrow

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Defindently

unraise

. I have a few pro-town reads now.

We have a question.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. Although I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead, you're not a bad choice either.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Plus, I had no idea you thought my slot was scummier. You didn't mention anything about Dr Modem/Me in that post, no "I still think Modem is scummier than Richard". It just looked like you were being overly cautious in terms of jumping on the wagon.

I'll explain why I found your slot originally scummy

He stated that RVS doesn't end for him until Day 2. If we stayed in RVS until Day 2, we would have gather almost no information and it would severely hurt the town in the long run. He contradicted that post in ISO: 7 by saying there was no random voting "period", saying he makes one random vote until something solid grabbed his mind. When asked to explain a couple of things, he backs down and replaces out. This is why I considered you my top suspect at the time.

9) Super Smash Bros. Fan, I'd have felt much better about you if you'd stood your ground when Dripp asked you why you had no read on Richard. Instead you quickly tried to appease them, by saying "Yes, now that you mention it, I've just seen the light on that scummy scumbag!" Furthermore, you copied vezopiraka's reasoning for suddenly suspecting Richard.

1. I was more concentrated on my other suspects (DrModem at the time, Vezopiraka, and CryMeARiver) and I never really saw why RichardGHP was originally scummy. Looking back at his posts, I finally knew what people were talking about when they were suspecting RichardGHP.

2. I'd like for you to explain why I parroted Vezopiraka. I haven't seen my reasons for suspecting RichardGHP being explained by anyone else really.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Defindently

unraise

. I have a few pro-town reads now.

We have a question.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. Although

I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead

, you're not a bad choice either.

The same MacavityLock who suddenly perked up when I vote you but still manages to put you in his dislikes? You scum buddies are funny.

First off, just because a person might be suspecting me doesn't mean that I get a scum read on them. That's like saying I suspected you because you suspected me.

Secondly, MacavityLock expressed his dislike of my raising, not of me in general.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

animorpherv1's return post was most defindently not to my satisfaction. He just deliberately parroted other people on why he suspected RichardGHP. I'm going to

FomS: animorpherv1

for now.

@animorpherv1: Do you have any original reasons for voting RichardGHP and do you have other suspects in your mind?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@RichardGHP: You're at L-2. You should probably claim now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Raise: Mina

I did an re-read of the thread and looked at some people ISO and out of all the people, Mina strucks me out as town the most. Here's why...

1. His first random post was great. It manage to get the game into a solid start, not to mention some reactions as well.

2. Has yet to commit a scum tell. A sign of really good playing.

3. Strong scum hunting. Almost all of his posts has been very well executed in terms of contents. It's really nice to have original opinions as well, hence his vote on Migwelloni. He asks very good questions and he helps move forward the game.

I'd like him to have the double vote.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Not sure whenever or not to believe RichardGHP's claim. On the one hand, it is sort of a power role, especially since someone gets to avenge him with one kill if he dies before Ser Loras does. On the other hand, we have no idea what alignment Ser Loras is. I'm currently neutral on RichardGHP's claim.

Doesn't remove my scummy read off him, but the claim isn't bad enough that I'm ready to lynch him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Richard, does getting lynched count as dying?

My PM didn't specify, but I would assume so, yes.

Get mod clarification. And get back to us ASAP.

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

I agree with Drippereth and you on the subject. This is why I am currently neutral on RichardGHP's claim. Even if RichardGHP's claim is correct, the only way to prove it is by killing/lynching him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

These people were on RichardGHP's bandwagon when it was at it's peak:
CryMeARiver, MacavityLock, I doubt it, LynchMePls, xvart, Drippereth, MagnaofIllusion, danakillsu, vezopiraka, Deer, animorpherv1, Mikujin, and migwelloni.

I'll be going through the list and point out reasons why each person voted for RichardGHP/suspected him. If they unvoted, I will make note of it.:

CryMeARiver: Voted RichardGHP in his first post. Declares the end to the RVS period. Suspects him for disagreeing with his contract. Doesn't like the self-raise question that RichardGHP asked. Accuse RichardGHP of being too serious by his response to Mina's mass claim suggestion (Which we all know she was kidding). On the same post, CryMeARiver accused RichardGHP for a blatant contradiction. Unvotes RichardGHP after his claim.

MacavityLock: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 1, agreeing with Drippereth. Said to RichardGHP that there was a lot of things to analyze.

I doubt it: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 1, saying there were some classic scum tells, his arguments on CryMeARiver were underground, and he likes the wagon. Unvotes because he thinks RichardGHP is starting to look more of a VI and not convinced that he was the best lynch anymore.

LynchMePls: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 5. He said in that post that he was not satisfied with Richard's answer to his question about policy lynches. Does not like Richard's attempt to prolong RVS in #62 and #99. Also saying to Richard he sounds desperate to get back to RVS with the pressure that was on him. ISO: 6, he sarcasticlly said he was thankful that RichardGHP answered his question. Unvotes RichardGHP after his claim.

Xvart: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 1. Starts off by not liking RichardGHP not agreeing to the contract because he could break it and the person who proposed it think he could be scum, then saying he'll only agree with the contract once CryMeARiver is dead. Goes after him for fence sitting. Also goes after him for saying contradictions are a null tell, questions him if contradictions doesn't reveal anything about an alignments and saying town is more likely to contradict themself then scum. Finish off on RichardGHP by saying the case on him was solid and voted him.

Drippereth: Started to suspect RichardGHP in ISO: 6 or ISO: 7 (Drippereth, when did you start to suspect him?). Calls out RichardGHP for suggesting an policy lynch in ISO: 8 on the Drippereth hydra. In ISO: 12, he said he could not keep up with RichardGHP's scum tells, indicating that he finds RichardGHP at this point. In ISO: 18, he meta RichardGHP, suggesting RichardGHP contradicted himself with the Policy Lynch saying that in that game, he said that he would not ever support policy lynches, therefore, RichardGHP contradicted himself by supporting a policy lynch of Drippereth in this game. Votes RichardGHP in the next post. Said to Richard on ISO: 22 that he saw IIoA, AtE, misreps, and no scum hunting. Said his behavior must have been too extreme to be classified as a townie, therefore, he must be scum. One of the hardest supporter of his lynch before RichardGHP's claim (Then unvotes).

MagnaofIllusion: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 2, his last post as of now. Accused RichardGHP of saying scumslips can't happen early in the day, contradicting himself, and saying that IIoA and contradictions are null tells. Also wants RichardGHP to explain how town reads aid the Mafia in NKs or not and justify his policy lynch comment. Finish by voting him.

danakillsu: Express suspicion on RichardGHP on ISO: 5 by agreeing with Drippereth and saying RichardGHP is somewhat scummy. Later said that RichardGHP was probably the best scum candidate and votes him. Unvotes RIchardGHP out of L-1 so he could claim.

vezopiraka: Votes RichardGHP at ISO: 16, saying his last post was ultra-scummy. Last post said that only CryMeARiver and RichardGHP gave him scummy vibes, but said Richard was scummier.

Deer: Votes RichardGHP in his last post as of now. Said that RichardGHP was playing stright into his scum meta, seen him flip scum and said he played exactly like that.

animorpherv1: Votes RichardGHP in ISO: 4. Said he was not scum hunting and trying to extend RVS.

Mikujin: Votes RichardGHP in his last post because he wants to hop on a bandwagon until he gets done catching up.

Migwelloni: Votes RichardGHP in his last post because he likes bandwagon. This was an L-1 vote.

I'm going to divide people reasons for voting RichardGHP into three categories. Townie, Null, and Scummy:

Townie

:
Drippereth: I like his strong push for a RichardGHP lynch. He was one of the strongest supporter of his lynch, mentioning numerous times that he wanted RichardGHP dead and explained why he did.

LynchMePls: Also gave solid reasons for finding RichardGHP scummy and explains them very well.

Xvart: He brings up an good point that if you want to agree to a contract set by a person, you might as well do it now instead of waiting until a certain cirumstance happens, therefore, reducing the risk of you breaking the commitment you've made. Brings up other good points as well.

MagnaofIllusion: I like his reasons for voting RichardGHP as well as they are well explained.

CryMeARiver: I commend him for starting a massive bandwagon on RichardGHP, which got a lot of information out of him. I don't think disagreeing with a contract is scummy, thought. Nevertheless, he did bring up other good reasons, such as his contradiction that he made and questioning RichardGHP for asking question on self-raising.

Null

:
MacavityLock: Despite a vote on RichardGHP, he never really went after him. Really, the only thing he said was he agreed with Drippereth on a IIoA and that he told Richard that there was a lot to analyze. Nothing really scummy thought, so I'll give him that.

Deer: Also didn't say much about RichardGHP, but he did make a good point about this following RichardGHP's scum meta.

Scummy

:
I doubt it: Basically said that he agreed with other people that RichardGHP. Then unvotes saying that RichardGHP was playing more like a VI and said he wasn't the best lynch anymore. Doesn't really push RichardGHP at all.

danakillsu: As bad as I doubt it. FoS Richard because he agreed with Drippereth and thought he was somewhat scummy without really giving his own thoughts. Then said RichardGHP was the probable best lynch and votes him without really explaining in his own words, making me feel like he was bandwagonning him a bit. Like others, I also find it scummy that he took RichardGHP off L-1 just so Richard could claim.

vezopiraka: Completely failed to explain why he found RichardGHP scummy at any point in the game.

animorpherv1: His reasons for voting RichardGHP was an obvious parrot of what has already been said.

Mikujin: This is obvious bandwagoning, especially since he admits to not reading the thread, therefore, it is very scummy.

Migwelloni: The outright worst offender of the people voting RichardGHP. He quite litterally said that he voted RichardGHP because it was a good bandwagon, which was a completely ridiculous reason for voting RichardGHP. On top of that, he failed to acknowledge that he put RichardGHP at L-1. His vote was extremely scummy.

Conclusions: I have five notable suspects. They are Migwelloni, vezopiraka, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and CryMeARiver in that order from scummiest to least scummiest. While I wouldn't mind a RichardGHP, animorpherv1, or a CryMeARiver lynch, I would highly suggest either lynch Migwelloni or vezopiraka ToDay as they have done almost nothing to support town (In Migwelloni's case, ABSOLUTELY nothing). I'm going to

Vote: Migwelloni

. I hope he has good reasons for complete lack of particapation and his extremely scummy L-1 vote on RichardGHP. Also...

HoS: Vezopiraka

FoS: Animorpherv1

FoS: CryMeARiver

I'm also slightly suspicious of Mikujin, danielkillsu, and I doubt it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, you seem to be operating like Richard is a confirmed townie who just claimed luke skywalker.

We all know that RichardGHP is not a confirmed townie, as a matter of fact, I'm actually neutral on the claim for now (Will depend on his further game play if I believe it or not). However, the reason why you may assume that is because I like a few others wanted to look at the people on Richard's bandwagon and I found some pretty interesting reasons for voting him. Some of them are good, but others really do suck. Plus I've never really felt he was suspicious enough for a lynch, although I was suspicious of him for a short time.

We sure do seem to have a LOT of lurkers.

This. The re-entry into the game from animorpherv1, Mikujin, and especially Migwelloni were pretty pathetic.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF: Calling for a claim at L-2 is poor form. Claims are for when a player is at L-1 and another player has declared their willingness to hammer them, not before.

I can see your point here, but this isn't a newbie/mini game, so people tend to put a lot of pressure on a person. Plus putting a person at L-1 with another player declaring their intend to hammer is a higher risk of a person being lynched before they get a chance to claim, either intentionally by scum tactic or accidentally by an uninformed townie. I wanted to prevent a quick hammer from happening before RichardGHP claimed, that's why I asked him to claim at L-2 (Bascially, he was at L-1, but the point still stands). On top of that, some people prefer to claim earlier.

Also, you have a very confused read of CMAR in your latest post. There are several players who you identified as having scummy reasons to participate in the Richard wagon, and you call CMAR's vote townie, yet CMAR ends up on your suspect list, but the others don't? plz2xplain.

Actually, basically anyone in the RichardGHP's bandwagon with scummy intents are one way or another slightly scummy. However, I prefer to focus on my more major suspects for the moment (Migwelloni, vezopiraka, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and CryMeARiver). But yeah, time to clear my read up on CryMeARiver.

I have a fairly scummy read on CryMeARiver, although it isn't as strong as my top three scum reads, but he's about as scummy as animopherv1. In my ISO: 9, I made a post where I called out CryMeARiver for being hypocritical. As RichardGHP pointed out (Yes, he actually did some good in this game IMO), CryMeARiver used a bit of AtE in his last line in ISO: 8. He also contradicted himself between ISO: 10 and ISO: 11. He unvoted RichardGHP in ISO: 10 and in ISO: 11, said that he was not copping out of the RichardGHP's bandwagon. Then why did he unvote?

Why do you find it scummy that I ensured RichardGHP would not be quicklynched? LOOK WHO HE TURNED OUT TO BE! We also hadn't decided who to raise as Hand yet. I help town a lot and it's scummy. Go figure. I will do this again next time I have the opportunity, despite what others might think.

That wasn't the only thing I found scummy. I found your vote scummy because you failed to provide your own thoughts on why you found RichardGHP scummy while at least half the twelve other people on the bandwagon have done so.

I'm know I'm going to sound like I'm contradicting what I said to Percy in this post, but I find that L-1 removal scummy because it seems like you're trying to buy RichardGHP some more time to claim and save himself by taking him off L-1. If he's at L-1, keep him there. Now yes, some votes were unwarranted, but he did deserve to have to claim to save his own butt.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF

you stick CMaR in your "townie" section for the wagon breakdown, and then have him in your notable 5 suspects...(rich as well) Whats up with that?

The fact that CryMeARiver started a good bandwagon that got us a lot of information is townie and he put some good reasons for voting RichardGHP. However, the scummy things about him outweighs the townie things he did. I explain why I find CryMeARiver scummy in my response to Percy. Will quote if needed.

I never gave CryMeARiver a town read, I just said that I think he had townie intentions on that bandwagon. My overall read of him reads fairly scummy for now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@ Those who jumped on Richard’s 196 – vezo and SSBF – can you explain why it is scummy? If anything it reads as frustrated which is at best a null-tell.

RichardGHP was basically attempting to shift off the blame to his playstyle for all the heat he got. I personally consider myself a pretty poor player, but I don't use that as a crutch. This is exactly what RichardGHP was trying to do.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

1. And why does buying him more time to claim and save himself seem scummy to you?

2. You're acting like you wish I hadn't given him time to claim, and that he had been lynched without doing so. That's extremely scummy. And he had to claim to save his own butt anyway, as evidenced by the fact that he DID.

3. unvote vote: SSBF Still up for a Migwelloni lynch, but SSBF saying I shouldn't have taken my vote away seems really wrong.

1. If RichardGHP were to flip scum, that would establish a connection between you and RichardGHP because you unvoted him just so he could claim.

2. Even if RichardGHP was kept at L-1, people would be smart to look at the latest vote count anyway and he would have probably claimed anyway. Thus, we would have gotten the exact same result. He did not need your help by taking him off L-1.

3. That sounds like a nice big OMGUS vote on me. Your case on me is not very good and you're voting me based off disagreements, not on scummy behavior.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Rifka Viveka: I'm going to agree with MagnaofIllusion here, I don't see what this is suppose to accomplish. Out of those who have posted less then five times in the game as of that post, I have a town read in some form on these people who had less then five posts at the time:

Xvart
Unsight
MagnaofIllusion

While they lack in quantity, they make up for that in quality. Now granted, I don't denide that a lack of posting is dangerous to the game and some of these lurkers are scummy (Migwelloni is an example), but a lack of post isn't really a scum tell.

Personally, I like quality over quantity and that this post has accomplished little.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@I doubt it: Annnnnnnddd, why do you find it scummy? That sounds like pure OMGUSing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just want to make this clear to everyone. I am not defending Benmage, I am just trying to find faults with I doubt it's case on Benmage.

Benmage: Looking at his posts in ISO,

it's a whole load of setup speculation

,

role fishing

and

discussion about raising

, plus other fluff posts, but

very little scumhunting.

Who's scum besides Drippereth?

I will admit he did speculation about the set-up a bit, but a "whole load" is reaching. Plus it didn't get in the way of scum hunting that much.

Direct me to the posts where Benmage was rolefishing.

The dark blue line makes absolutely no sense and I cannot see how in the world it is possibly any form a scum tell. As a matter of fact, having some discussion in it early in the game was actually beneficial. This also makes you look very hypocritical, for you were discussing raising as well.

I also disagree with the green line. Benmage has done more scum hunting then most people in this game, and especially more then the lurkers.

Your case on Benmage is overall, poorly executed. There are good cases and bad cases and you've just made a bad one. Scummy one even.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm lurking because this is my first game with this many people and quite frankly I feel a bit overwhelmed when every time I check in the thread has grown by a page full of Wall'o'text posts.

Your case on CryMeARiver was basically a Wall Of Text, so that makes you kind of hypocritical.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Ahhh, first of all where the heck do I say anything about a town read on anyone?!?! As far as I'm concerned you're all scum atm.

First off, you contradicted yourself. In ISO: 3, you wanted to see if we had a decent case on RichardGHP. If you don't think there's a decent case on RichardGHP, it means you think he's town or at the very least, a null read. Then you took back this statement in ISO: 5 by saying everyone was scum and you never said anyone had a town read.

Secondly, the "Everyone is scum!" mentality is dangerous. It is very anti-town, indicating that you play only for your survival and not for the town. Saying that everyone is scum without explaining your reasons is not going to help you in the long run.

Looking back at ISO: 2, I realized that you've been parroting a bit and deniding the usefulness and benefit of a RichardGHP bandwagon.

FoS: Kleedrac

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Kleedrac's Post #360 is basically a huge "NO U!" response to Drippereth, Very poorly thoughout and it makes me wonder if he actually checks his posts before posting. Congratulation, you are now offiically one of my top three suspects.

Scum List:

1st: Migwelloni
2nd: vezopiraka
3rd: Kleedrac
4th: RichardGHP
5th: animorpherv1
6th: CryMeARiver
7th: Mikujin

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Switch Mikujin with I doubt it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mikujin: Just wow. I was honestly hoping that you were going to actually produce some contents. Instead, you basically said this:

"Doucebags like us should get more respect."

That's border-lining RVS comment and we've already gotten them. Your comeback was downright pathetic.

FoS: Mikujin

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Well, it probably seemed random because it wasn't intended to be serious.

That's the problem. The post wasn't serious. And we've already gotten over 300 posts of contents to analyze and you gave us absolutely nothing to work on.

What kind of asinine argument could I possibly be setting up by saying "Douchebags like us should get more respect?"

It's a type of argument that will not favor you at all and is very unproductive. You didn't create any contents in that post and that's ridiculously shameful.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Anyone who has read

Clash of Kings

: Is Ser Loras more of a protagonistic character or a antagonistic character? I'm asking this because I don't have any knowledge of the book (Interested to read it, thought) and it could help the town out in the long run.

@Rifka Viveka: Now that Deer got replaced by Raivann, would you mind explaining why you find me suspicious?

vezopiraka, you have still not answered MagnaofIllusion's question on if you usually play the way you do. I'm not liking your play at all at the moment and I'm considering changing my vote to you if you don't improve.

When had you ever mentioned me as a candidate for Raising? This is weird and out of the blue.

You were the first person I seriously considered to be raised period, so that was my very first post on suggesting who should be raised.

SSBF is scattershot and throwing out FoSes like they're candy. Can anyone tell me if this is common for his meta? I generally find that excessive FoSes (which are simply signifiers and have no actual game meaning) are a bit scummy. Like he's trying to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks

I honestly don't see how having a lot of suspects is a scum tell. It's not like I'm calling out everyone but me as a scum. I have town reads and scum reads and I do plan on going after my eight noticeable scum reads. Plus this is a large game, so it's normal to have a lot of suspect.

This will also be common in my meta for larger games because I don't see the point of just focusing on one or two people at the time. Prehaps I have more time then you to spend on the Internet and maybe because this is my 2nd Large Theme game, but I'm not a fan of tunneling and I want to make sure that my other noticeable suspects are not neglected.

Mikujin is now almost confirmed scum. Why the wimpy FOS, when you have a vote?

Because I already have suspects who I call scummier then Mikujin, although I will rest assure he is climbing up my suspect list.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

unvote, vote: Kleedrac

Most of your posts have been absolutely terrible. The only semi-decent post you've produced was a case on CryMeARiver, and even then had some flaws. Your latest post was a blatant OMGUS vote on Drippereth and you've shown unecessary haterd toward Drippereth, who has been far more pro-town then you.

If you truly think Drippereth is scum, give us a decent case or I'm not buying your bullshit that you've been spouting.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Ninja'd

Some of my last post sounds like parroting of Drippereth.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Wow, you guys play a hard game. For my first large game I'm having a lot of issues following some of your logic. Maybe it's the fact I'm too new around here but no one listens to me and you all seem to just point out my most minor logic flaws and then HOLY F*CK BANDWAGON CASE NOW NOW NOW. Fine, if that's what you want. My dying wish (as whatever I write doesn't seem to change things around here) is that when I flip town you'll lynch the dumb hydra whats-his-name and his scumbuddies

1. You use the newbie card.
2. You add in the "It's not fair!" card.
3. Shows more unecessary hate toward Drippereth.
4. To top it off, this is loaded with AtE.

Conclusion: Your play has been incredibly scummy. You have done very little in the game aside from being super defensive and call Drippereth names. I'm not sure if a claim can even save you at this point.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I wanted to know Kleedrac's age. He sounds young. If the information on his profile is correct, he's 30?

Unfortunately yes. Yet he sounds like a teen complaining that he doesn't get his way. Funny part is that I'm almost twice as young as he is (Just finished 10th grade) and I try to act like an adult.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Unsight: Multiple times, you've called MacavityLock my scum buddy, yet you've never explained why you found him scummy. Why do you find him scummy?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why would you want Mina to explain why you did something?

Mina accused me of copying reasons from vezopiraka. I do not see where I parroted vezopiraka. Therefore, I'm wanting evidence from Mina to prove that I was parroting vezopiraka.

Now I'd like for you to answer this question. When they're called out for a scummy move, sometimes they don't see it and they need evidence to see that they actually commited a scummy act. What makes this post so different?

I have a huge problem with this post. If you aren't defending him why are you trying to undermine other players attacks on him? Furthermore, why are you

seeking

faults in a particular players arguments? Especially I doubt It, whom you are only slightly suspicious of?

1. I was attacking the case that I doubt it made on Benmage, not defending Benmage in general.

2. I was explaining to I doubt it that his case on Benmage was very poor. I asked for evidence and he gave me a quote from one of his posts. I then searched Benmage's ISO and found that I doubt it's case on Benmage was mostly flawed and thus I went after I doubt it. Not because I thought Benmage was pro-town (I do, but that wasn't the reason why I attacked I dobut it's case on him), but because I didn't like I doubt it's case on Benmage.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And you said it as if you had already provided reasons, which you hadn't. So, why me?

You have been contributing a fair amount to the game. So far, you have yet to drop a scum tell in this game. On top of that, you've been one of the more reasonable people in here and I like your scum hunting tactic. You're currently one of the people I'm considering raising if Mina doesn't get raised or if Mina starts to act less pro-town then she is right now.

Why call this out?

I did not want people to accuse me of parroting later on, as I knew I was guilty of parroting some of Drippereth's last post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

unraise, raise: Percy

Currently the most pro-town player here. I really do like his high amount of contribuation to the game. Very strong player and has currently played a very towny game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Unsight: Despite having a vote on me, you've never really made a counter-response to a post early in the game (Will link if necessary). Your most direct reactions were your vote on me and basically saying that me and MacavityLock were scum buddies. Why do you not choose to counter-respond to that post if you think I'm your top suspect?

@Mikujin: Do you have anything to say on Raivann's jump on RichardGHP's bandwagon? He replaced Deer if you haven't noticed.

Does I doubt It's recent poor argument change your opinion of him from only slightly suspicious to more suspicious or is your opinion of him the same?

My opinion on him is currently the same as before. I've already looked at his response to me at least twice.

I see nobody argees with my view of Richards claim, and I don't think Renly is that prominent of a character as xvart was saying.
unvote, Vote: Kleedrac choo choo!. Someone made a good point about yeah he was pissed but that could just as easily come from scum

I find this post scummy. Because people doesn't agree with your view on RichardGHP"s claim, you basically decided to bandwagon, which is bull because it basically said you're refusing to support your top lynch candidate in favor of a lesser scummy, but more popular lynch candidate.

FoS: Raivann

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Personal attacks in any game are pathetic. I'm glad the mod called people out on this crap.

That is true and I do apoligize for what I did, but to be honest, a few of your earlier posts didn't show that much respect to the game as well.

Yup, that's basically what I'm doing
Let's see if we cant finish this game before 2011.
What do you find scummy about it?

That should have been very clear to you and you know it. I find it scummy because of obvious bandwagoning and not supporting your desired lynch because it isn't really getting any attention.

Your "response" was to say you don't see what I was saying. Scum aren't going to see why they're scummy. You're obviously not going to admit to being scum and vote yourself so I'm not really interested in a back and forth with you that will end in the exact same place it started.

Townies are also not going to see why they're scummy and as a result, they attempt to defend themself. Both townies and scums do this, so it's impossible to really distinguish who is town and who is scum based off solely by hearing a person say "I don't see why I'm scummy!". This is why evidence is needed to support a case against that person.

Are Percy and Drippereth town?

For the moment, I'll say they are.

He tried to find some justification to do so, in saying that Richard's claim was weak, and that we shouldn't worry if Richard dies because - hey! - someone gets a day vig out of if it he was telling the truth. And then...

Raivann's justification for voting RichardGHP was poor. All he basically said against him was that he didn't believe his claim and that he was dripping with scum tells, without really explaining why. And in case you haven't read RichardGHP ISO's, it does not specify that Ser Loras is an One-Time Day Vigilante. We don't know if he can kill during the Day, kill during the Night, kill during the Twilight, or just whenever.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

HoS: Raivann

Your last few posts have been absolutely terrible. I'd also like to add that your FoS against me was an OMGUS reply and that you have not been very productive in this game.

Has anyone played with him? If so, is this play style normal?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I noticed that some posts in Page 23 had all first letter in a word captialized. This is annoying and I reported it to the Conversion Problem thread. Hopefully I don't get mod-killed for this and that I get a response. But yeah, I'll probably have to live with this.

@Mina: I'm not going to give Kleedrac the newbie johns obviously, but if you're right, Raivann has absolutely no excuse to play this badly. Let's just say I'm

that close

to changing my vote.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Percy: What about the interaction between me and MagnaOfIllusion that's giving you some form of leads between us? I haven't really interacted with him as much as other players, despite having a pro-town read on him. Also, MagnaofIllusion does not have a vote on me, just to correct you.

You're simultaneously defending him and distancing yourself from him.

I honestly do not see how I was distancing from Benmage, let alone both defending him and distancing from him. I have a town read on the person.

Why are you being so defensive SSBF?

This relates to a past Mafia game on Smash World Forums that just recently finished called Dragonball Z Mafia. I took a TON of heat during the game. Major points against me included parroting. Combined with other things and that nearly got me killed Day 2. Had it not been for my claim (I was Town Jailer), I would have completely and utterly given up on the game and I would have permanently left the section of Smash World Forums where they played Mafia.

It basically relates back to meta.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

/prodded
@Unsight: That is incorrect. I was scum in Smash Bros. Mafia on that site.

I will be fine with a CryMeARiver's lynch, but Raivann has played so scumminly that he needs to die Day 1.

Unvote, Vote: Raivann

Finally, I need to re-read the thread for Day 2.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@CMAR's last post: You haven't provided any contents whatsoever for the last few posts. All they've basically been were "I'm catching up!" excuse. I'm tired of waiting. Unless your claim is great, you can die.

Beric Dondarrion,

Innocent Aligned

My bolding. Something that was missing from Richard's claim, I'd like to point out.

Nice catch there. I should have noticed that ages ago. Also note that hasdgfas said earlier that RichardGHP's claim sounded a lot like a Mafia Godfather role in another Mafia game (Vengeful I think).

Mikijun and Hayker are both active lurking to an offensive level, they are both scummy.

I understand that you're still reading, but Hayker has already flaked out of this game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm satisfied with the CryMeARiver's lynch. His play has been scummy throughout most of the game. If he flips scum, we need to look at the connection by CryMeARiver:

@Raivann: If you are truly a Town Vigilante, shoot vezokpiraka.

I will start reading once Night hits and will tell of my suspects on my first post of Day 2.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

The fact that we managed to get rid of a Mafia Godfather is fantastic news for the town. Now we need to look for connections between Raivann and other people.

Vote: Vezokpiraka

. Absolutely hated his play Day 1. He has contributed litterally almost nothing to the game with his over forty posts. He drops scum tells all over the place. Combine that with his anti-town attitude and he's a great lynch for ToDay.

Case upcoming as well as trying to find connection between Raivann and other potential scums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

HI THERE MR SCUM HOW IS YOUR BLATANT SCUMTELL TODAY?

vote: SSBF

That post made me chuckle a little bit. On to serious busines...
How is that a scum tell? I'm glad that a Mafia Godfather is dead and for legitimate reasons.

1. A scum is dead. That's one less bad guy to worry about.
2. We can search for connections between Raviann and other players that might also be aligned with him.
3. Less worries about false "Innocent" investigations from cops. Mafia Godfathers usually turn up Innocent in Cop investigations. Because of the Godfather death, we are more likely to receive accurate Innocent's results.

There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing wrong with the death of a Mafia Godfather. As a matter of fact, town should be glad that we have a Godfather dead. So tell me, what is so wrong about that quote you've made?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Before I get to my other stuffs today, I need to respond to some things:

About the Benmage Interaction: I currently have a slight pro-town read on Benmage. It was about the same as then. My reason for defending Benmage was not because I thought Benmage was pro-town, but because I at the time thought I doubt it's case was pretty poor.

However, and most importantly, SSBF hasn't searched for Raivann connections, nor has he commented on my dana case, so the theoretical benefits of Raivann's flip that SSBF pointed out remain just that - theoretical. I don't like it.

I haven't searched for Raivann's connections yet because of two reasons:
1. It was getting close to my bedtime. I would not have time to search the entire thread for Raivann's connection, as we both live in different places in the world. I tend to go to bed around midnight, so I would have only two hours to search for Raivann's connection if I choose so.

2. Today (In real time), I want to bring people's attention to vezokpiraka. I have some things I want to talk about regarding him and I'm not going to neglect doing that. However, I will most certainly look for connection between Raivann and his possible scum buddy afterward.

As for not commenting on danakillsu's case, I will do so. The connection between danakillsu and Raivann sounds like a good case, but I want to look that over before agreeing with you. Right now, I am leaning toward believing you, but I'll have to ISO danakillsu to see if I agree with the connection you're proposing.

First of all, his random vote is on Deer(Raivann). Even though I've seen scum "random vote" their scumbuddy, I don't think it's a particularly good scumtell, however every time I've seen it they've unvoted their scumbuddy rather hastily. This is the case here as well. He doesn't even let his vote sit on Deer for 24 hours.

The reason for that Random Vote was because he played very well as a scum in Newbie 934. That vote was to rest assure I would not overlook him again. I'm glad I didn't, as he did flip scum.

On top of that, it is best interest for the town to get out of RVS as soon as possible. I'm not a fan of long RVS's, as I don't think they benefit town as much as actual discussions as soon as possible. I already was suspecting Migwelloni (Now hasdgfas, he's a lot better player), so I decided to place my first serious vote on him. I do not see how unvoting your random vote when you have legitimate suspicions is a problem.

He makes both a FoS and a HoS on Raivann, yet keeps his vote on Kleedrac until the end of day 1. FoS scumbuddy, vote townie anyone? In addition, the second post really looks like he's pleading Raivann not to be so scummy so he won't have to vote for him.

All right, I have a lot of explaining:

1. At the time, I considered Kleedrac scummier then Raivann. I personally don't give n00bs john to anyone outside of Newbie Games. If I suspect the person, I am not going to let their lack of experience prevent me from doing so. Raivann's play didn't get scummier then Kleedrac until near the end of the game.

2. I tend to take awhile to vote for someone. I'm a lot more stable with my voting pattern. Just because someone does one extremely scummy thing, if another person has done multiple scum tells and is scummier then the person who've made that extremely scummy thing, I'm going to keep my vote on the person who has commited multiple scum tells.

3. All I was asking for was his town meta, it was a simple question. Not sure how the question was a problem.

Also, what Percy said. How about you tell us whose interactions with Raivann are scummier than yours?

Right now, I think danakilllsu is possible, but I haven't searched for connections yet. After my case on vezokpiraka, I will get working on that.

After I take a shower (Got up late), I will work on my case on vezokpiraka with the only break being lunch. After that, I will start working on connection between Raivann and other people either later today or tomorrow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Ugh, just forgot that it was DrModem that hasdgfas replaced, not Migwelloni, My defense still stands, thought.

Is there any reason for this besides buddying? I don't see it as any part of an argument that you're making or an explanation of anything. Why would you say this, and what are you trying to say?

Why I said that: I personally didn't like your predecessor's play at all, but I did want people to remember that that's not the case with you.

What I'm trying to say: I didn't like your predecessor's play, but you have improved a lot upon him, hence why I have a strong town read on you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

My case against vezokpiraka

His play has been scummy ever since near the beginning of the game. Here, I put all the pieces together to help prove that he is indeed lynch-worthy.

First of all, I want all of you to know that vezokpiraka is an experienced player, at least according to what he said over in an ongoing game, so there is no reason for his overall poor play here.

The raising dilemma

I'll do that but it's not bold so it doesn't count. raise that guy.

Apprently, he's supporting to raise Benmage, but from what I can recall, he never does it under any circumstances.

@everyone: I think that for the first day or in some cases if we don't want to raise a hand we can raise the one who will be lynched so nobody could die because of it.

This is a horrible idea. He wanted to raise someone who would be lynched, so no one would die because of it. If we had followed his suggestion, this would be a complete waste of time and would benefit no one. This is why raising Percy was such a great idea, he is currently the strongest player here.

That thing is not useful. So we have to pick a double voter? on day 1.
If we target scum we have a double voter scum.
If we raise town we have a double voter dead.
If we raise town scum may create WIFOM and make us lynch him.

All cases equal bad for town. I still suggest raising the one we are lynching

He argues that double voting isn't really useful at all. When placed in the right hand (As this is probably the case), it can be more beneficial to town than to scum. What if Percy has his vote on two scums already? Overall, his argument is definently not convincing.

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

I personally call this a selfish move by him. Now yes, everyone wanted to be the double voter (Myself as well, as I did raise myself for awhile), but I really didn't like this post at all. He doesn't explain why he should be raised at all, let alone a legitimate one.

I have no idea about the books.
I have no idea if I'm next in line but it seemed like I am a royal figure more or less.

I really don't see any purpose for this comment under any circumstances. I haven't read the books, but I don't use that as an excuse for not trying in this game. On top of that, I don't really care if vezokpiraka thinks he's a royal figure or not.

Promise made, but never delievered

I think Cmar is scum. Will post a case sometime soon

He never made a real case on CryMeARiver, despite voting him a few times. While I did think that CryMeARiver was scummy, he defindently didn't convince me into thnking that.

Bandwagoning and unexplained suspicions.

These are some of his worst offense in the game by far. He has done this so often, it's not even funny. Usually, it is with minimal reasoning and gives us very little to work on. First major example:

unvote
Vote Richard

Your last post is ultra scummy.

This is obvious bandwagoning. He doesn't give any explanation why he found that post scummy. None, just said that his last post at the time was scummy. Continuing:

unvote
Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

After putting almost no effort in pushing RichardGHP, he unvotes mainly because of his claim.

Well it was this post but I consider CMAR being scumier that this.
vote CryMeARiver

Now this is where it begins to get bad. All he basically said was that he considered CryMeARiver to be scummier then RichardGHP's post that cause him to vote him. He doesn't provide any explanation whatsoever on why CryMeARiver was scummy.

unvote
Vote mikujin
The amount of scuminess in your posts is overwhemling

Once again, he gave absolutely no reason why he found a person scummy. While it might been Mikujin's 2nd vote on him, it defindently sounds like he's trying to leech off MagnaofIllusion's reason for voting him.

I will /barn that. This is what I told you/ was going to tell you and forgot.

Unvote
Vote Richard

Less then three hours later, he changes his vote to RichardGHP. Gives absolutely no new reasons for voting him. The vote was completely worthless.

Kelraac made really bad responses. I don't care what you would say.
unvote
vote Keldraac

The Kleedrac bandwagon was relatively large at the time. Vezokpiraka votes for him. Unfortunently, all he said was that he made really bad responses. He doesn't say why they're bad or what responses Kleedrac made was bad.

Unvote
Vote CMAR

Same thing only CMAR wagon has more steam

This is blatant bandwagoning on a person. People should note that this is taken at the exact same time where he voted Raivann. Inconsistency much?

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

vezokpiraka sounds extremely desperate for a lynch to happen here. Yes we didn't have much time for a lynch, but he could have at least given a good explanation for switching his vote to Raivann again.

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

Anyway. This is the only way to prove it.

unvote
Vote Richard

Basically, he said the only way to prove Richard's claim right was to lynch him. He is wrong in this circumstance. RichardGHP could have been Night Killed and that would have proved if his claim was right of if he was a lying scum bag. This claim is more likely true because of julienvonwolfe's death. I feel like he was trying to bandwagon RichardGHP again, hoping to kill him.

Richard wagon is not moving but this should end in a lynch
unvote
vote CMAR

His last vote of Day 1 is also horrible. He expressed dissatification of RichardGHP's wagon not moving to a lynch, so in order to ensure that, he basically makes an obvious bandwagon on CryMeARiver.

Other things to note

I play like this.
I do scumhunting when I get a good read on someone. Right now richard seems the scummiest but I don't have a case on him yet

I don't like how he basically relies on meta fo his defense and doesn't really defend his action. He said that RichardGHP was the scummiest person at the time, yet he doesn't have a case on him A.K.A. suspicion without explanation.

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.
If CMAR flips scum raviann should be obv scum.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

This post is horrible. A few things I especially disliked about it.

Obv fakeclaim.

I don't want to lynch a vig now.

Major contradictions here. He said that it was an obvious fakeclaim, but on that exact same post, he said he didn't want to lynch a vigilante now.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

He doesn't explain his vote on CryMeARiver at all. This isn't what I call a good response to a question, plus this is bandwagoning without giving good explanations.

Overall:

Give me

one

good reason to keep him around. Just

one

. To me, this person has contributed next to nothing in this game. He has been scummy all over the place and he needs to die ToDay. Unless vezokpiraka improve his game Day 2, this stance will stay.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I also agree that since Ser Loras fipped town, that RichardGHP is most likely town as well.

After a while, I've finally gotten myself worked up to start that post where Raivann could have connections beside me. I'm currently making some progress right now. Right now, I've already gotten to Axelrod's ISO (For order, look at the first page in order of remaining living players). I'm keeping notes of things I've saw. After analyzing connections, I'll try to look at the one with a generally scummy ISO.

For those wondering why danakillsu hasn't posted in recent days, it's because he's currently V/La from June 27th to July 3rd. No prods are needed.

@Mina (Post made on June 17, 2010 at 3:32 AM) I remember one of your post where you basically made more then half of your post "skim-worthy". This was on LynchMePls. Why did you think it was "skim-worthy"? Personally, I thought that it was valueable infromation that town can work on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Mina makes some pretty solid points against Drippereth, which I really do like. It helps establish a connection between both of them. As my connection between Raivann and other people is still in development, I need to look at Drippereth especially closely. I also like his case on CSL where he compared the connection between Raivann and CSL. It's worth a read.

To be honest, Drippereth's bandwagon analysis sounds more like IIoA, as the majority of the stuffs mentioned are things that actually happened. Not really that much analysis going on.

Why are you bringing this up now?

Answer at the bottom of the post.

Do you think me calling it "skim-worthy" is scummy?

Not really, but I did get a feeling that you wanted us to skim information so you wouldn't want us to take a second look over. Luckily, I read your entire post and that wasn't the case, but when in a game, I like to read everything and judge from there.

Is there any valuable information in particular that you want to highlight in that post?

This one:

Oh, really? Please explain to me how the instantaneous change between this and this is any different. Clearly, Dripp changed their mind in the one minute between demanding a claim and saying "I believe the claim." And you yourself said Dripp was attacking Richard harder than CMAR was.

You asked LynchMePls to explain how the instantaneous change between the first "this" and the second "this" was any different (Both "this" had links to comments). You go on to say that Drippereth changed their mind in litterally a minute between demanding a claim and saying he believed the claim. And you said that LynchMePls himself said that Drippereth was attacking RichardGHP harder then CryMeARiver was.

You were asking LynchMePls to explain the almost-instantenous change between Drippereth's demand to Drippereth's believing RichardGHP's claim. That means that LynchMePls had to take a stance in some way or form. That's someting that I can look over and comment on.

Maybe it isn't nearly as much as Percy's massive posts that happens most of the time, but that post where you told people to skim I did find something that I call information that could potentially help town.

Why are you bringing this up two weeks later?

Originally, like others, I skimmed it. However, I wanted to bring something to the table yesterday and even if it wasn't much, I wanted to help inform people about that comment and that there was potentially something useful to work on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Richard is still scum, Mina sure seems scared to leave me alive. Percy seems to always wanna lynch me.

One of these three is scum.

Richard's conf town, you're awesomely town, so we're leaning Percy.

I really don't like these quotes. Both quotes sounds like contradictions of each other. Even if they aren't, I feel like those town reads on RichardGHP and Mina are basically due to pressure made by Mina. You didn't even attempt to make a solid counter-attack on her.

---

@SSBF: Don't call someone out for not delivering on promised content when you say things like

I will start reading once Night hits and will tell of my suspects on my first post of Day 2.

...or should I assume that you only have one suspect?

I had other suspects at the very beginning of Day 2, but at the time, vezokpiraka was the only person with a solidified scum read from me. CSL is also scummy, but with the cases being formed on him Day 2, I eventually got a solidified scum read on CSL.

Hey look, SSBF wants to change the subject from his Vezo "case" to Dripp and CSL.

I definently have not forgotten about vezokpiraka at all. Do you seriously not want me to focus on other suspects? I have something else more important in this game that I am working on for this game then to argue with you about vezokpiraka for now.

but did you think IDI was scummy?

At the time yes I did find I doubt it scummy. I currently have a null read from him.

Do you always defend people who aren't necessarily town when pretty poor cases are presented?

No I do not. To be honest, I originally thought it was worth defending a town read that I originally had a scummy read on that I thought made a bad case on Benmage. I am currently trying to recitify the problem completely.

More patting on the back. How does an RVS vote signify that you won't overlook him again? Did you think Raivaan would take that vote seriously as "OMG I better watch out! SSBF has outted me!"

I should clarify that my random vote was geared toward Deer. I've played a couple of games with him and read a few other games he was in and Deer is a very good player, both for town and scum. In Newbie 934 and Mini 955, Deer managed to manipulate the town easily and led scum to a perfect win in both games.

The point is that, Deer is a very good player, both as scum and as town, so I wouldn't overlook him again.

As for your second question, I honestly doubt he would. Given his experience on the site, he should know the in's and out's of Mafia a lot better then newbies here.

So you believe that Vezo can still redeem himself? I never understand it when people say that someone has been sooo scummy all over the place but that might change depending on future play.

Yes I can. Just because I think that Vezokpiraka has been very scummy doesn't mean that he will remain auto-scum for the rest of the game. Just because I'm serious with my suspicion doesn't mean that nothing can possibly change it, barring someone seriously saying that they're scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

In addition, SSBF looks like he has some pretty good Raiv ties: See his HoS on Raiv (Jun 14) and subsequent bussing vote (Jun 22). Most of his post re: Raiv were "Raiv is scummy because he's scummy," without good reasoning.

It tends to make me awhile before I change my vote to someone. As we go further into the game, my reads tends to move around a lot less and I become more satisified with them. I also have done some pushing in Raivann's bandwagon, so I didn't simply vote him the moment I became suspicious of the person.

Pleading a lack of time, whilst still having enough time to do a complete ISO of vezok, is bizarre.

I never really pleaded that I didn't have time to make a vezokpiraka case. The reason why you may assume that is because it was late when the game started Day 2. IIRC, the case took around three hours to do the next day. In my region, it was 10:41 PM when I made my first post into Day 2. If I had started my case immediately after that, it would be around 2:00 AM. Please note that we are both in different regions (You live in Australia, I live in the central part of the U.S.A.), so I would not have time to make a case on vezokpiraka as I usually go to bed around midnight in my region.

He has acknowledged the need to look into things such as the Raivann connection and commenting on the dana case, but does not use the critical pieces of information we have today (the flips) when forming his case against vezok.

Now the reason why I didn't use the flip is because while he may not be part of the Greatjoy alignment, I do still think that he could very well be scum in another alignment. If we were to kill him eventually and if he flipped scum, he would reveal information for the town in a good way. For example, LynchMePls's chainsaw defense where he defended vezokpiraka's action while attacking my case against him

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

That last sentence is really weird. What problem, and how exactly are you trying to rectify it? Do you think the reason I'm attacking you is because you attacked my case on Benmage? Is this you admitting that your strategy as scum is attacking players/cases you find weak?

The problem that I'm trying to rectify is my tendency to defend people. One previous experience with defending a case from other people was Dragonball Z Mafia over at Smash World Forums.

How am I trying to rectify that? I am currently trying to avoid reacting to other people cases on different people and focus on myself in terms of defenses.

For your third question, I would say partly because of that, but not completely or even the main reason. There are other reason why I see you attacking me (And others). A major example is the apprent me-Raivann connection.

And for the final question, no. I have not done this as scum. My only game where I flipped scum was Smash Bros. Mafia over at Smash World Forums and I don't remember doing any chainsaw defense. I have only done chainsaw defenses as town.

@All (Drippereth especially)
Explain to me how it WOULD have hurt us to not lynch Raivann D1 even if he had not been NK'd. What I was saying was just that we could lynch him tomorrow.

Obviously, you were pushing Kleedrac harder then Raivann Day 1. There are numerous evidence supporting that you are scums and I believe the case. You said that having Town-Kleedrac/Budja is worse then Town-Raivann. Guess who flipped town and who flipped scum?

LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change. So he gets the green.

What if in LynchMePls's next post that he outright claims that he's a Mafia member of another scum alignment? Will he still be townier then all the townies in here and would that still never change?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@vezokpiraka: A third scum team from my opinion is highly unlikely. Given that Raivann acted very scummy yesterday, I'm suggesting that it was the real vigilante that killed him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

and because his reasons for voting for me are horrible.

Excuse me? I never voted for you once, despite expressing suspicious of you. Where in the world did you get that from?

Can you clarify what sort of connection you mean regarding DripHydra and Mina? I’m confused as to whether you think Mina is bussing Drip or if you mean something else.

I was meaning something else entirely. I was talking about the connection between Drippereth and Raivann.

dana, I see a hint of AtE in your post.

Hypocrisy much? You've been guilty of multiple accounts of AtE ToDay.

Ok, I have a proposal then.

We kill dana today, you can have at me tomorrow.

But you will still be wrong.

Also, I stabbed dana.

You're actually that willing to let yourself be lynched Tomorrow in favor of a danakillsu's lynch? Saying you'll sacerfice yourself is not a pro-town statement.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

Not only is Mina's case the most believeable to me (Mainly about explanation the connection between Raivann and CSL), ToDay, he has done absolutely nothing productive to the town. Instead, he goes on to make an unecessary claim at L-10, uses AtE multiple times, and shows that he doesn't care about the town much.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

xvart brings up a great point in #1218. It shows that the Drippereth hydra is distancing from it's original vezokpiraka's read and fails to give proper explanation why.

Everyone should look at #1207 and #1208. He said he wants to lynch danakillsu, but then votes for vezokpiraka. This is a fine example of inconsistency.

vezokpiraka's claim was completely unecessary. He has very little pressure compared to others and makes as much (If not less) sense as CSL's claim.

I'm also fascinated that SSBF the claim at L-10 vanilla lurker ended up as a tacked on number 4 to your list, when almost everyone else considers him far more scummy then that.

Umm, that was CSL, not me.

For this sentence alone, I'd be willing to lynch Thor. Just sayin'

Would you please explain why you think you're willing to lynch Thor665?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What "numerous" evidence is there, and when did you start to believe the case?

As others have said, despite him saying that he thought Raivann was scummier then Kleedrac/Budja, he goes to defend Raivann a lot (One major point being saying Raivann-town is better then Kleedrac-town with very poor arguments to back it up). Then out of nowhere in ISO: 47, he goes and votes for Raivann, saying that there was almost no one support the wagon anymore. He quickly without any explanation changed his vote to Budja again at ISO: 48. Inconsistency much?

As for your second question, I started to suspect danakillsu early in Day 1. My focus on him wasn't much, but he light my radar Day 2 after the connection between him and Raivann was brought up.

Weakass vote.

Mind explaining why my vote on CSL on ISO: 71 is a weak vote? Especially since you only quoted part of my post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Forgot to mention this in my last post. I was /prodded.

@RichardGHP: We're close to the deadline, but not that close where his vote decides whenever or not we get a lynch or not. We have some time left to find scums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mina: What made you decide to vote vezokpiraka? You were pushing CSL's lynch throughout most of the Day and I find it weird that you would suddenly switch to vezokpiraka.

@Benmage (#1351): I'm not sure how that post is really suppose to benefit town. It isn't even a proper gauge of activity, only shows how many people posted.

---

we know. why are you pointing this out?

I didn't want the mods to accidentally skip over my post and replace me out. Althought that is extremely unlikely, I believe it can still happen.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Need to get something going here. But first:

@Mod: Let's say that two people have the same amount of votes. The Hand of the King has yet to vote. If he manage to put both people at majority, would both people be lynched for the Day or would you randomly decide between the two put at majority?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@diddin: Very good idea there.

Step Forward

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Thor665 (#1420): Your Day Vigilante claim is good, but I'd like to know this:

1. How many times are you able to shoot? I ask this because you claimed the role, but have not used it during Day 1 or Day 2.

Let's AtE.

No, let's not do AtE. Deliberately doing so will not benefit the town.

I promise I will vote only for the player with the most votes. I will listen to the town. And I am proud for winning the "Get daybigged award".

Listening to town means actually contributing to killing scums, not bandwagoning.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Regarding the cop investigation scan, the scummiest person should be investigated while the second scummiest should be lynched and vice versa. We will gain the most information that way.

This has to be the most bizarre question I've ever seen in my life. Why the heck are you asking it?

The reason why I asked the question was because I had an idea that could help kill scums faster. I thought if we were allowed joint lynches that we could use that oppertunity to kill two scums in one Day, which would increase the chance of town winning.

Do you want to know so you know if you need to kill him tonight or not?

No. I asked because while I believed the claim, I was doubting that it was a daily Day Vigilante, especially since Thor665 did not shoot Day 1 or Day 2. Luckily, he has proven the vatality of his claim and I think he's town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@hasdgfas: Okay, wait a minute. You said that you would want to investigate someone you had no clue about. One of those people you want want to investigate is xvart, saying you had no clue about him. But then you put down a FoS on him. Putting down a FoS on a person indicates that you find the person suspicious in some way or form, so it kind of moots the point about you having no clue about xvart.

---

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Caught you stalking this thread and yet you appear to be strategically avoiding commenting on Percy's flip for now. Diescumdie.

I have not been completely avoiding the thread. If I was, then I would have gone for days before making any post here whatsoever.

Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.

If we investigate a person that is hard to read and turns up town, we would end up wasting an investigate that could be used on people that the majority suspect, which would yield more information. Not only that, the scum would have to kill that townie that the majority previously suspected. It helps town more to investigate someone scummy then someone with a null read.

What?

I'm think we have six or seven anti-townies in the game overall. If we were able to do a joint-lynch between two people, this would increase the chances of a person flipping scum. Instead of 1/18 chance of a person flipping scum, we have a 1/9 chance of one of those two people flipping scum. Both people lynched flipping scum would help town even more.

We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

I personally don't object to you receiving a cop investigation. Since I have never been a fan of your play under any circumstance, this would be the perfect oppertunity to reveal if you're town or scum.

On top of that, saying you can't help the town much is a really bad statement.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Since I'm the most likely person to die today, I might as well claim:
I am Arya Stark, the Town Vigilante. I watched my father die and escaped to the wilderness. I was wild enough whe maids and septas tried to put me in dresses, but I have since gone feral. I have a sharp sword.

I am able to kill every Night and if successful, the person will die.

Night 1, I killed Raivann. I knew that he was lying about his claim and since I was the most suspicious of him, I decided that he needed to die. Night 2, I killled I doubt it due to gut feelings that he was scum. Something about him really didn't sit well with me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

About the kill choices, I can kill whoever I want to kill, it is my own choice. That said, I am willing to kill either vezokpiraka or CSL, leaning toward CSL.

To MagnaofIllusion, I had no ability to influence Kleedrac/Budja.

And to hasdgfas's question, a 3/3 Greyjoy/Lannister team sounds plausible with one remaining from each factions. Although given the size of the game, I wouldn't be surprised if there was two scums from both factions alive (AKA, started with 4/4 for both scum factions and 2/2 remaining).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Presuming we buy that you're really the Vig, why not kill whom town directs?

It's because by following my gut/biggest scum read, I feel that I have the greatest chance of killing a scum. Night 2, I was torn between killing CSL or killing I doubt it. CSL has been scummy, but my gut scum read on I doubt it was stronger. I choose I doubt it because I knew if I left him alive and if I were to be lynched, I doubt it would probably avoid suspicion for awhile, possibly enough to win the game for the Lannister scum team.

If I am not lynched Day 3, on Night 3, if the investigation of hasdgfas indicates that he's scum, I will without any hesistation kill him. if the investigation points at hasdgfas as town, my Night Kill choice will definently be either vezokpiraka or CSL.

How come CSL?

While I don't like vezokpiraka, I think that we're more likely to hit scum in CSL. Granted, if I gain enough support for me to kill vezokpiraka, I will shoot vezokpiraka, but I feel like CSL is a better target. Either way, they're both still good targets so I won't mind killing vezokpiraka either. The only exception to me not killing either CSL or vezokpiraka is if the Day 3 investigation of hasdgfas points to him being scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mikujin: Why do you think that a three-scum factions team is more likely? Raivann was considered to be the scummiest person of Day 1, so I took care of him Night 1. I doubt it was killed by me Night 2 due to my gut read of him.

In compairisons, the other Night 1 and Night 2 kills sounds like they came out from the Greyjoy/Lannister's scum factions. Plus I personally think that a 4/4/1 anti-town faction is more likely then a 3/3/3, since I believe the latter would have scum overpower the town. What makes you think that the Night Kills of Raivann/I doubt it would come from a scum, not from a SK/Vigilante?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

That was your reason? Really?

Yes it was. He was also my top suspect. Would it seriously not make any sense to kill someone you consider the most suspicious?

SSBF, does your "flavor" explain why your victims are hacked to pieces?

I'm leaning toward yes mainly because I believe that Arya Stark is an aggressive person given that according to the flavor, he has run feral.

SSBF: you didn't say whether you'd read the books or not.

The answer to that question is no, I have not read the books nor have heard of them before this game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Did you leave any breadcrumbs?

That answer would be no. When I claim, I have no intentions of bread crumbing it, I feel like it's unecessary work to create a solid bread crumb and then when you need to claim that you search through your ISO. Forgetting that you've bread crumb your result means that you wasted time doing that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

About SSBF planning to kill me: If it's for the good of the town, I lay my life down.

So you're not even going to give a reason why you should not be vigged instead of vezokpiraka?

So you don't have any response to Cow's point, SSBF? Surely you must have killed Raivann because he claimed vigilante?

That would be a no, because as much as I hate to admit it, he is right that I did leave that crucial evidence out. However, I will say this, my other main intention for killing Raivann was that Raivann was fake claiming and I was determind to prove that.

Great defense Unsight.
/sarcasm

Let's be extremely honest here. You have done pratically nothing to help town. You are a confirmed townie, so you should be doing everything in your power to help us. If I was in your position, I would do exactly that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, will you add diddin onto your list of potential targets if this doesn't come off? Let's go, Mina.

I'll think about it. migwelloni was scummy and Kinetic did little to recitify that. diddin sounds towny, but I need to re-read his ISO to see if he's a good lynch or not.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

To answer Locke Lamora's question:

As said before, I dislike Migwelloni, who did absolutely nothing for the town. Kinetic wasn't much better as he did not really take any stance in the game and his vote was a Raise.

However, diddin's play has considerably improved from those two. He is scum hunting, giving out his own opinions, and seems pro-town. That said, I will agree that diddin's vote on Unsight was horrible. He claims he doesn't really see anything scummy about him, yet because Unsight is the most likely lynch for today, he uses that as a justification for voting him. Very scummy vote.

Currently, I have a null read on him. Not exactly the best lynch in my opinion, but if I absolutely must to prevent a No Lynch and the bandwagon is on him, I'll switch over.

As for potential targets, if I'm alive, CSL and vezokpiraka is dead and I don't have another suspect, I will shoot diddin, but not before then.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why isn't Unsight dead yet?

It's because Unsight hasn't claimed yet?

Now I'd like for you to answer this question, what have you done to support the Unsight's lynch wagon? So far, all I see is a vote on him and a vote alone is not good enough. You haven't really given us any proper justification of your own, even if they were parroting on other people.

Vote: CSL

If you aren't lynched today, definently shooting you tonight.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

A question to everyone: Has anyone been in a three scum faction game? I just can't see it being a possibility in this game, especially considering that Night 1 and Night 2 kills had at least one dead scums and a Vigilante claim claimed to kill both people.

@Unsight: Given that a third scum faction is very unlikely, why would you think a Greyjoy/Lannister would kill one Greyjoy and one Lannister back-to-back and actually plan on killing another scum tonight if CSL doesn't get through the noose today (Or hasdgfas, depending if cop investigation turns up guilty)?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF: why CSL over Vezo? Vezo threatened to vote Unsight when he already was, for crying out loud.

I feel that vezokpiraka play is more anti-town while CSL is scummier. Yes vezokpiraka has commited scum tell, but I feel that CSL is even worse in this department. vezokpiraka is at least trying to participate in the game while CSL is doing next to nothing to help the town. The fact that he holds strong bonds with Raivann as has been pointed out a few times is enough for me to have him as my kill preference.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'll give you my reasons for why we should lynch CSL today:

- It will get rid of an useless player. CSL is doing pratically nothing to contribute to the game or help town. Lynching him today will get rid of not only one useless player, but two, as I will be vigging vezokpiraka if we lynch CSL today.

- Bears a connection with both Greyjoy's and Lannister's. It has already been explained why he's a likely Greyjoy. He said in ISO 19 that he would switch to danakillsu if it looked like he would be Day 2's lynch. This looks like scum admitting that he will bus his scum partner if he's today's lynch.

- Puts very little effort toward getting a person lynched. Day 2, all he said about supporting my lynch was that I was much, much worse then him without giving evidence why. His lynch campaign on danakillsu isn't much better. The only major point I could find against danakillsu that CSL brought up was the AtE statement and even then, it's hypocritical because CSL is guilty of it as well because he does it later on. Day 3, he votes me for active lurking. He'll need to do a lot better then that to justify his vote on me. Currently he's on the Unsight bandwagon. So far, he hasn't brought up anything to help support a Unsight lynch.

He got a free ride to a danakillsu's lynch without doing much to support it. If this happens with Unsight again, this will only cement my scum read on him.

- His lynch is the least risky to do. I already mentioned that he's completely useless. If he's lynch and he flips town, we get rid of an useless player. If he's scum, great, town is closer to victory. Also, he claimed Vanilla Townie, so we won't run the risk of hitting a town power role with him. Unsight is at least trying to help town, so lynching him would get rid of a potentinally useful townie, regardless of role.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Locke Lamora: 1. It's because we need to try to make as little mistakes as possible regardless of how far town is ahead. Lynching a townie will set us back. If we were to lynch CSL today, town would take the less damage for his lynch if he flipped town, due to his uselessness and his Vanilla Townie claim.

2. Because I didn't want people to just completely ignore my case on CSL and give people a second thought about the possibility of lynching him.

3. Because due to demands by a few people (MagnaofIllusion for example), I'll be torn between killing either vezokpiraka or CSL. Which means that I have two choices:

1. Kill an extremely anti-town player that people are wanting me to kill.
2. Kill someone I think is truly scummy but less people support.

I will really have to think about those two choices during the night. Both are good choices, but I'll need to choose eventually.

With that said, I'll be semi-V/LA during Marathon Day that just started. However, I will be around to hammer Unsight/Rifka Viveka if a lynch needs to go through.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just realized that there's less then two hours left for Day 3.

When deciding between those two, I prefer a Rifka Viveka's lynch to Unsight's lynch. Rifka Viveka has been sitting the background even more so then Unsight and isn't really actively defending him/herself. Axelrod's case on him is particularly convincing, so I won't mind Rifka Viveka's lynch.

Unvote, Vote: Rifka Viveka

I'm not going to let a No Lynch slide by just because of Marathon Day.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF - why not CSL, previously he'd been your glowing intended target of win.

First off, I will reveal my Night 3 Night Kill.

Night 3, I killed vezokpiraka.

Now to answer your question, it's scary to imagine that vezokpiraka could be at endgame with us. Knowing his play style, he can easily mess up the game for his faction and cause some severe problem for the town. Take for example, Mafia 114: Mafia Vs. Werewolves. He was a Monk Mason in that game and he was kept alive until endgame because he was totally useless throughout the entire time.

Had he been scum in this game, I highly doubt that he would be lynched eventually, due to his incredibly anti-town meta. Even thought vezokpiraka flips town, at least we get rid of someone who is even more useless then CSL. Plus he was already a good vig, so why keep him around when he's only going to distract from actually finding scums?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Thor665: It was a difficult choice to make in terms of who to kill. The first option (CSL) would get rid of someone who I thought was truly scummy, although if town, not someone who I think will destroy the game for the town.

The second option (vezokpiraka) was an extremely anti-town player that

no one

would want at endgame because he is almost always useless and he was scummy anyway, even thought not as much as CSL. However, unlike CSL, vezokpiraka can litterally cause his own faction to lose the game. See Mafia Vs. Werewolves (Large Normal). Vezokpiraka was a confirmed townie who was a monk mason. He was almost totally useless throughout the entire game and was kept until endgame because scums knew that he could easily be manipulated in their favor and that's exact what happened. He was one of the major reasons why the town lost the game.

And I completely understand that no one would want vezokpiraka around anymore in this game. The longer we kept him around, the worse the situation would get and had it not been for him being killed by me, I can almost guarateen that he would live until endgame and still be completely useless.

When it all boils down, my reason for killing vezokpiraka is this:
- Even more useless then CSL.
- Is capable of destroying all chance of a win for his faction due to his uselessness.
- Won't be killed by the scums due to his incredibly anti-town meta. He wouldn't be lynched either.
- I can't remember anyone wanting vezokpiraka to stay around.
- Can easily be manipulated in scums favor.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Anyway, I made a big post with everyone's name on it and my reads. The red names are my suspects.

#2034: I'm assuming that this is your big post, correct? Especially considering that it has your reads and the red names being your suspects. If so, why does it only include your reads in terms of colored names and "Macavitar is null if SSBF flips SK."?

@SSBF - why shouldn't you be lynched today? A two lynch day seems an optimal one to verify you, and if you're Vig you've killed 2 scum and 1 VI so you've pretty much been an awesome Vig already. Seems pretty smart to kill you now to clear the SK fears - thoughts?

I will say that I have been at least more useful then CSL in this game, who's done next to nothing. That is something I can at least be honest about. I will also say that a Greyjoy/Lannister would probably not want to kill Raivann/I doubt it/vezokpiraka (I doubt it is questionable, but I'm sure that a Greyjoy/Lannister would not want Raivann/vezokpiraka dead because they were useless/heavily suspicious).

I am also trying to cooperate with the town here as I have attempted to answer every single questions directed at me and I agreed to killing the short list of people that was handed out to me Day 3. If I wasn't cooperative, I would definently not kill vezokpiraka/CSL.

Note that I did not simply claim Vanilla Townie at L-10 like CSL did, which is also pretty damn scummy and stupid. I claimed because people asked me to and because I was close to being lynched. Claiming my role before would be a terrible idea.

As for thoughts on me being lynched today, obviously I don't want to be lynched. However, I am willing to face the gallow if it means that CSL dies as well. I can definently see him as a Greyjoy and I feel like that he's the most likely Greyjoy out of this group.

Finally, on deadline day, you say that you are torn between the two targets. Why? You were dead set on lynching CSL and killing him at night if he wasn't lynched. You suddenly completely abandon your certainty for no other reason that I can see than to please the people who wanted Vezo dead.

I haven't admitted this before, but it was partly due to pressure. However, thinking about it, I thought the pressure regarding me to kill vezokpiraka was legitimate. Had I let him live today, he would probably play the similarly as he did Day 1, 2, and 3, which is nothing short of god-awful. Plus people wanted him dead regardless of alignment. By killing him, I did the town some sort of a favor, getting rid of someone that will probably be detrimental to town if he was kept alive for any longer.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If Diddin wasn't Sandor, I'd vote him for that question.

As it is, I don't see the motivation for Diddin-scum to ask me that because he obviously can't have any buddies left even if he is scum himself. It's a horrible question, though. In case that wasn't clear enough: no, I'm not telling you who I investigated.

Wait, weren't you the one to say that there was a possibility that Sandor could be Greyjoy? I think you said that a few days ago.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@CSL: So CSL, do you have anything else to say today? You have said very little in this game Day 3 and Day 4.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

That wasn't meant to be scumhunting.

That was meant to be information for the town after I died. I made that post with the expectation I was going to be lynched so I did everything I could to lay my suspicions out.

Even if I haven't done as much scum hunting as I should have in this game, at least I haven't completely neglected to do that unlike other people here {RichardGHP, CSL}. If you're town, you should be doing this right up until the end because your goal in this game is to catch scum and to do that, scum hunting is necessary.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: CSL

Glad to see that CSL is finally being considered for a lynch. CSL should have been dead a long time ago and now is the best time to get rid of him. If it means that I am lynched as well, so be it. I think he's scum and he needs to die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

so planning around that is wasted time that could be going toward lynching SSBF and MagnaOfIllusion.

You indicated that right now, me and Macavitar are your top two suspects with MagnaofIllusion at #3. Why not choose to lynch me and Macavitar instead of me and MagnaofIllusion if you think me and Macavitar are scummier overall?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I think the same group of people are going around in circles. Why haven't we lynched yet?

There is still time left for us to find scums and get rid of them. We need to use as much of the time as we feel is necessary. Granted, it probably isn't a good idea for us to scramble for a lynch in the last minute, but there is enough time left to find two scums in one day.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@CSL: Admit it, you played absolutely horribly as town (RichardGHP as well). If I was smart enough to realize that you would be that dumbfounded as to self-hammer as town, I would have definently shot you Night 3.

That being said, I felt really unsatisfied about my play here as well. Lurking under pressure throughout the majority of this game when I was alive was easily my worst decision in this game. For some reason, I loss almost all of my interest in the game that I had at the beginning and at times, I considered replacing out, but I didn't have the heart to do so. I need to seriously learn from this game and quit lurking under pressure in all future games I'm in. That combined with my other numerous scum tells that made it obvious that I was not tell really tells me that I played badly in this game and could have done so much better.

I also apoligize for showing disrespectful to the mods, the game, and the players a few times by having to be prodded three times and nearly getting mod-killed over basically quoting my Role PM. This will never happen again intentionally, that is a promise.

@Everyone else: The next time I'm a SK, I don't want to fail as much as I did in this game. Do you have any suggestions on how I can improve my play in here as a SK and a player as a whole?

---

The mods did an fantastic job of modding this game. I could easily tell that they put forth a lot of effort in the flavor and game mechanics. These are what you would expect out of a top mod like Patrick or SpyreX (Then again, SpyreX was a back-up mod, so maybe he had something to do with this). Very well-designed if I do say so myself.

I believe that town started off on a great roll and it extended all the way to Night 4. I had very high confidence that town was going to win this game. The ending really surprised me when Greyjoy-MagnaofIllusion and Lannister-Macavitar drawed out, which was a bit uneventful, but still fitting IMO. I don't think town did absolutely horribly as people describe them, but town loss a lot of momentum as the game went on.

I probably won't be joining future A Song of Fire and Ice games for two reasons. One is that I'm going into semi-retirement soon. Another is that if I did join them, I wouldn't feel much better about my performance in them. Still, I will give credit to the mods for making such a well-crafted game and I hope if they do sequels that it will be equally as successful as this one.

Also, as I was the SK and that I don't want to get all tangled up in the discussion, I'll come back to post (If ever) after all this mess gets sorted out.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, if you killed me, none of this would've happened.

So I should be blamed for killing vezokpiraka over you?

vezokpiraka would have flaked from this game (Due to recent events) had I not killed him. That prevented a late-game replacement and it meant that the players were not forced to read over 2,000 posts just to get into the game. Do you think anyone wants to do that?

It is not my fault that you played so poorly neither is it my fault that you self-hammer, that is your own responsibility. Likewise, I'm not going to butt heads at other people for why I was lynched Day 4 for my bad play here, but I at least am going to move on from it and learn from this game.

-

My meta-reads on SSBF

, Vezo, and RichardGHP were all on the money.

Curious to see how I played similarly to my other scum games. IIRC, my scum games were Smash Bros. Mafia (Smash World Forums), Mini 988: Small Town Mafia (Mafiascum), Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Mafiascum), and Open 242: Friends and Enemies (Mafiascum).

The scum have a party

I find this a bit humorous.

2) This game is a lesson that many large games have repeated before, eliminate your VIs as early as possible because they will lose you the game. Scum are not going to do it for you.

While that is a good point, I disagree with killing VI's off as soon as possible.

IMO, there were four to six players that could be considered VI's in this game (Not naming them off, expect for possibly myself if you included my meta from Smash World Forums and this site from my joindate to June, 2010, my play was a lot worse and it showed in earlier games). Going in succession to lynch/vig off VI's is a bad idea and puts down in a terrible position. In small games, it wouldn't be feasible as scum would win if all town players were VI's. Not in favor of quick mass-VI's policy lynch. I understand the benefit of it, but the drawbacks seems too much for me to agree. They are best left for the vig whenever possible to kill.

Also, this is more of a personal thing, but I rarely support policy lynches nowadays. I believe if we are policy lynching, it should be done if it fufills all the circumstances:

- If it's done Day 1.
- If we cannot agree on a lynch candidate for the day.
- If the policy lynch candidate plays directly to his bad playing style meta.

That's the only time IMO, when I think lynching a VI for the sake of policy is good. Other times, it should be up to the Vig/SK to get rid of them.