Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Beefster]

I'm replacing Kairyuu. HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET 70 PAGES IN 2 WEEKS?!?!?!?!??!!!?!

It's gonna take me a while to catch up.

[Beefster]

I've read up through page 15. These are my notes thus far:

JaBLoC - scum leaning
Allegedly over-defensive

Mafuyu - scum leaning
possibly buddying JaBLoC
Post restriction?

chesskid - scum/policy lynch
Not contributing content
Active Lurky
possible Jester?
Claims King Zora on page 10. (What are his powers?)
-refuses to divulge powers post 244
claimed 2 target 1-shot suicidal vanillizer
chainsaw defense
He says "Ignore my claim then." in post 349
uses "why me" tactic

DTMaster - slight scum lean
Weird voting early on

Substrike22 - slight scum lean
Suggested that chesskid is a jester, but had vote on him. He admitted it though.

[Beefster]

@chesskid: why?

[Beefster]

Wow, that was helpful. [/sarcasm]

[Beefster]

This is taking forever! I'm currently onto page 26.

MOAR NOTES!

chesskid - scum/policy lynch
Not contributing content
Active Lurky
possible Jester?
Claims King Zora on page 10. (What are his powers?)
-refuses to divulge powers post 244
claimed 2 target 1-shot suicidal vanillizer
chainsaw defense
He says "Ignore my claim then." in post 349
uses "why me" tactic
"It's pretty clear that scum are going to finish this wagon on me, so I'm getting my FoSes out there while I can." on post 403
hypocrisy/irony on post 421
suspects Ythan

Tripod - scum lean
Called out chess for being opportunistic opportunistically

Cupcake - scum lean
Suspects Ythan to be scum
In cahoots with chesskid?
suspects LL
post restriction?
SPAM

Blooderection - scum lean
refer to post 462 for points of interest
full scum list, lots of fencesitting

[Beefster]

I need a break. I'll finish reading over the weekend.

[Beefster]

wow this new guy is retarded

Dude. I have 70 pages to read through. I already spent about an hour and a half on it. For 25 pages. I'll catch up. You just need to give me time.

[Beefster]

VOTE: chesskid

Policy lynch... until further notice.

[Beefster]

JaBLoC - scum leaning
Allegedly over-defensive

Can you clarify this? You think I'm scum because other people think I'm over-defensive?

This was based on the early game- and I hadn't really seen your posts. It's only scum-leaning. It's not threatening. But still, this response confirms your typical reaction.

[Beefster]

Here goes a (more or less) blind vote... Drumroll please...

VOTE: GandalfIzSik
Because I like RayFrost's arguments on the matter.

Question: is GIS a drmy alt? is gangdalf5166 also a drmy alt? I'm quite confused.

[Beefster]

Ah. Sorry about that ck3 vote earlier. I was like 4 pages before the cop claim/check in my reading.

I also just saw some of my predecessors arguments against GIS, namely this one:

GIS is REEEEEEACHING to try to revive the Chesskid wagon after it's finally died. Probably scum.

So I'm on page 21 and wondering why there's a page 22.
Here are the possibilities, in order of likelihood:
1. Chess is scum, telling the truth about his role. He knows he'll be lynched tomorrow if he's not today, so he'll use his ability tonight, no question. Not to mention, he's scum, so. INSTALYNCH MATERIAL.
2. Chess is scum, lying about his role. He's scum. So. Also, don't rule this one out because chess couldn't come up with that fakeclaim. Dram always has QTs open during daytime, so a scumbuddy could have done it, no problem. INSTALYNCH MATERIAL
3. Chess is town, telling the truth about his role. He needs to die, or he'll OMGUS with his role. INSTALYNCH MATERIAL
4. Chess is town, lying about his role. He's retarded. INSTALYNCH MATERIAL.

So useless! Scum.

Why me? on post 885

Cases are scummy

General Active Lurking

----

JABOC attacks only active lurkers around post 889

----

Now on page 42.

[Beefster]

How is that role supposed to be pro-town? I highly doubt there would ever be 3 adjacent scum players. (It's highly unlikely) To me it seems like it would end up doing more harm than good because it will most likely be targeting 3 town, possibly 1 scum, probably not any more than that. It's basically a mass (fail) roleblocker.

[Beefster]

I'll hopefully start to be useful. I'm gonna start on arguments on Cupcake and LLD today for future lynches.

You'd think people arguing in the great plains of Hyrule would attract monsters...
Anyways, you argue loudly about how obviously the one going under the pseudonym of "Chesskid" is horribly suspicious.
As representative of all races bicker frantically, one of you turn and see...

"Hey... what's that big cloud?"
"I... don't think that's a cloud..."
"Oh my god... HYSTERIC CUCCO FLOCK, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

As all of you scatter in order to avoid the threat of CHICKENS,

Le Cupcake

trips.
Upon seconds, the Cuccos are upon him, doing what Cuccos do best:
...Vanish in flashy blue particles?

Nothing Happens!
Back to the game!

I'm reading over the part when LLD, Ythan, and friends were arguing over Cupcake's claim...

This may sound absurd, but do you think Reck was just making a joke post? Or perhaps it's a useless or diversionary scum power. Nothing really suggests that it has to be a daykill. For all we know, cupcake may have had a power that summons a flock of vanishing cuccos... and she used it on herself.

[Beefster]

@Ray: I know it's old news. Just thought I'd bring it up so that the argument doesn't come back later and distract us.

@Nikanor: Explain. My predecessor already claimed miller and my role PM says nothing about being in a masonry. Or are you just addressing me and saying that CC, LLD, and you are in a masonry?

[Beefster]

That makes sense.

on a side note, I'm all caught up! YAYZ!

[Beefster]

Hoorah.

Now post a catchup post, and vote GIS.

Arigatou Gozaimasu. <3

I've already voted GIS and I've already made a case on him.
I am a little uneasy with my vote, as I feel like I'm only voting against the shotty head. From what I can tell, the gandalf head seems rational, and thus disappointed in the shotty head. It's too late to change... Unless most of you are willing to switch over to substrike. Either way, it's better than no-lynch.

[Beefster]

I'd rather not have 2 pages of spam for prospective replacements to deal with.

[Beefster]

Only 6 more posts to break the record. Might as well go for it since we're at twilight.

And the reason I felt iffy about my vote is because I got to the part where the gandalf head stepped in and he made sense. I was pretty suspicious originally.

[Beefster]

Blooderection is a doublevoter. I noticed that in the vote counts. Theoretically independent of scumminess. Just an interesting side note.
He was quite the fence sitter yesterday, though. Not to mention that he posted a

shopping list[/b] full scum list yesterday.
VOTE: BE for now. ISO/analysis to come later.

@ck3: why are you suspicious of me? You've never explained yourself there.

[Beefster]

That [/b] was supposed to be a [/s]

[Beefster]

Dude we have reason why this is possible. Kai said a shift is occuring but never said what. Of this is true then both sides can be town with the right results.

There was some sort of shift between Ythan('s wagon) and Reck's wagon. A power targeted at Ythan hit Reckamonic instead.

[Beefster]

Actually, looking back at stuff, here's what happened with the shift:
- [6. Kairyuu] used ROLLOUT on [13. Ythan]
- The ROLLOUT aimed at [13. Ythan] gets redirected -13 spaces to [0. Reckamonic]
- [7. Exilon] used INSPECT on [19. Lady Lambdadelta]
- The INSPECT aimed at [19. Lady Lambdadelta] gets redirected -13 spaces to [6. Kairyuu]

Kairyuu is a claimed Boss-miller. Yeeeeep.

Oh well. I still like my vote on mothrax.

QFT. It makes perfect sense now.

I'm happy with my BE vote as of now.

[Beefster]

1. With Nikanors explaination I actually think we don't need to test aanties anymore. It makes sense to Kai/Beefster. What we need to do is verify if this shift fluxuates or is actuated yet so Exilon can pull another result.

2. Ythan I'd assume you read my point which is much father down in terms of the witches. It makes more logical sense that the role has not been defeated yet (reread CEBM with the Baku) in terms of motivations of Chrono's claim. I don't recall seeing "other witches" earlier (self note).

3. Also my VLA is gone so I can post :S. It's weird don't ask.

4. It's been only ~2 days. I'd wait or do a post search before I call lurking charges. Selfnote I have to do that as well.

5. Beefster can you use your ability claimed by Kai to verify today's shift?

I think it's about the right time for me to post my whole role PM.

This is a huge Dodongo that eats anything! Give it a shock, and finish it off with your sword!

Welcome to Ocarina of Time Mafia,

Kairyuu

Beefster

. You are

King Dodongo

. You’re a giant Dodongo who rules over your fiery cavern...however, you’re just overprotective, not evil! You don’t want the evil to take over Hyrule, because that puts your cavern in jeopardy too! Despite your past differences, it’s time to let bygones be bygones and save the land from evil.

Race:

Fiery Infernal Dinosaur

Faction:

Hero

You are a

Miller Wagon-Centric Voteblocker Roleblocker

. You have the following special abilities:

Passive Abilities:

Monstrosity

- Despite your pledge to help the heroes of Hyrule defend their fair land from the certain evil at hand, people still have a hard time trusting you due to your previous allegiances. If you are checked by a cop, they will believe you are still evil.

Active Abilities:

Rolling Attack

- At any point during any day, you may target a current wagon. You will roll into a ball and charge everyone on that wagon, removing their vote for the day and blocking all of their actions until the start of the following day.

Please remember that you can use only one active ability per phase.

Win Condition (Hero):

You win when all threats have been eliminated and the land of Hyrule is safe once again.

Please confirm via return PM.

The topic is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

Actions so far:
Oct 7 at 9:11PM - Kairyuu used rolling attack on Ythan

We won't learn anything about the shift if my power is shifted to an empty wagon. For us to get reliable results, everyone would need to vote on the person below them in the player list, and then I would use my rolling attack. Assuming dead players are skipped, we would know exactly where it got shifted to. If nobody loses their vote, we'll know it got shifted to whoever is in slot #1 (or Reck if the #28 votes #1 rather than Reck)

[Beefster]

bunny: AFAIK, Reck did not tell where the attack got redirected, but we know where it went because zwet was stripped of his vote... and he was voting Reck.

@zwet:

Are you Barinade?

[meaningless_speculation]If so, Ghoma is probably out there, possibly a miller, possibly actual scum.[/meaningless_speculation]

[Beefster]

Fair enough. I'm gonna clarify this with Reck. I will report back and use my power if that is true.

[Beefster]

I think hypothesizing a -13 shift is safe for now. It could be driven by an enabler. Perhaps Cupcake's power is not affected by the shift. Maybe the same for Nikanor since they're in the same masonry.

[Beefster]

I will use my rolling attack in the open. I have not sent it yet.

[Beefster]

Sweet. If I hit an empty wagon, I can attack again.

Back in a sec.

[Beefster]

Following the -13 shift hypothesis...

Unvote

just in case

ROLLING ATTACK: jmj3000's (nonexistent) wagon

I hope to hit LLD's wagon, thereby stripping BE of his doublevote.

[Beefster]

And roleblocking him. That should help.

[Beefster]

This isn't spectacularly important, but I think Mafuyu has a posting restriction that forces her to speak in 3rd person. Maybe she's Tingle. END OF SPECULATION.

[Beefster]

MOD: Votecount please.

[Beefster]

MISS. I get to try again!

Maybe there

is

no shift.

Rolling Attack: Lady Lambdadelta's Wagon

[Beefster]

At least, no shift TODAY.

[Beefster]

I had already suggested that idea, but I doubt we'd be able to get everyone to do that.

AFAIK, I'm not technically using my power on LLD. Just LLD's wagon.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Beefster
Okay. We'll see if this tells us the shift.

[Beefster]

I think I made a valid hit with my power. Now to wait for the vote count. Hopefully I haven't been PGOd.

[Beefster]

Nope. Never mind that.

There is, in fact, a shift. Good to know.

[Beefster]

I believe that the VC's accuracy does not indicate a lack of shift. Considering that the rolling attack was activated before most of those votes, we can't be sure about the location of the shift (or even eliminate some possibilities).

I got an invalid result upon targeting LLD. There's a shift. I can keep reusing my power until I hit a valid target.

[Beefster]

LLD: if you self-vote, we will be able to find exactly what the shift is once I use my power. Or you could OMGUS. We really only need to have everyone except the mod voted exactly once.

My theory: if the shift IS constant, maybe it's +16, rather than -13. -13 was perfectly logical yesterday, but perhaps since we have 4 less players, it's more like a -9 shift due to possible wraparound. Just a theory. If everyone self votes over the next 2 days, I'll use my power on the reck's slot's wagon.

[Beefster]

1 more day and I'll make a shot in the dark.

[Beefster]

I'm not waiting any longer. HEEERE WE GOOO!

Rolling Attack: Reckamonic's Wagon

[Beefster]

d'ya think ck3 might have been affected by yesterday's shift?- I mean in the sense of Nikanor's investigation. ck3 is playing so ridiculously. Is this his normal play?

My bets are that he's a jester. As soon as he uses his power, someone Vig him, PLEASE!

[Beefster]

Right. I forgot.

You can't retract a claim. You can retract an investigation, though.

[Beefster]

We have to wait for the votecount to discover the shift.

[Beefster]

Looks like there's no shift activated on this game day.

Are you trying to hide something? I missed again.

I get to reuse my power if I miss. When I used it on LLD, I was told she was an invalid target, even though she had a vote.

ROLLING ATTACK: RayFrost's Wagon

[Beefster]

Votecount Please.

[Beefster]

...heeheehee

You're plotting something.

Use your power tonight. Or else. I think you're pulling a gambit.

And if you target me, you're a dick.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Blooderection

*refers back to his notes*
(determining the shift was distracting)
*realizes his notes weren't very useful*

-In his first post, he posts a full scum/town list.
--Lots of fencesitting
-Voting LLD for no apparent reason, despite her being cleared.
-Having a mysterious doublevote yesterday. (nulltell, but still... why did it go away?)
-Lets all consider a new perspective. We don't have to go with it, mind you.

[Beefster]

What should I do instead? I'm willing to switch to ss22 at any time and I proposed a weak case. I just don't like tunneling. When you tunnel, you miss out on all the other opportunities for other scums to mess up.

Nah man imma get the PGO and the daycop LOLOLOL JK I'm not using it tonight either

Why not? You seem to have your targets picked out and you're of no use to the town being alive.

The earlier you use your power, the more useful it is to the town. I see no pro-town reason to not use your power.
Perhaps you don't actually have the power you claim to have, so you're "not using it" to stay alive.

If you don't use your power tonight, we'll get someone to vig you, just in case you're a jester.

[Beefster]

Uh Jester would not get a fake role pm, would they?

I don't see why they wouldn't get a fake role... Also, that's WIFOM.

Also my power is better used _LATER_ when I have a better chance of not hitting a town pr

As I read earlier, using it now on your top scumpicks would be the best choice. We don't want to leave scum with their power roles if they can be removed and I guarantee you the town has more than enough power roles to cope with the scum. (Seeing as the game is vanillaless)

[Beefster]

VOTE: chesskid3
I've had enough of you. You're pulling a gambit. Die, scum, die.

[Beefster]

Any reason I shouldn't vanillize Beefster because he's shown he is an idiot and doesn't deserve any powers?

*Facepalm*
My power is the only revealed one that can effectively determine the shift. You're asking for the town to lose if you vanillize me. Stop using the "why me?" tactic.
Stop being a VI and use your brain for once.

Dayvig, PLEASE KILL ck3!

[Beefster]

@RF: why?

VOTE: substrike22

We'll leave the vig to ck3.

[Beefster]

1. Untrod Tripod -scum
2. DTMaster - town
3. Fate - town
4. Nikanor - leaning town
5. jmj3000 - leaning town
6. Kairyuu - null
7. Exilon - null
8. Just a Bit Off-Center - null/town
9. Le Cupcake - scum
11. GandalfIzSik - leaning scum
12. Chronopie - scum
13. Ythan - town
14. diddin - scum
15. evilpacman18 - null
16. Dekes - null
17. ZazieR - null/flakes
18. mothrax - scum
19. Lady Lambdadelta - obv scum, like... needs to die
20. zwetschenwasser - null/town
21. Jenniwren - null/scum
22. Substrike22 - null
23. Mafuyu - null/scum
24. chesskid3 - meh... scum
25. Albert B. Rampage - null
26. Kdub - null/scum
27. bunnylover - scum
28. Aikage - null

Fencesitting- every 3rd player is null. He didn't really need to post a full scum/town list. I frown upon the practice.
I was making a point moreso than a case. I like to take many perspectives so I can best understand the game, though it does lead to the appearance of wishy-washyness and some vote hopping.

[Beefster]

You aren't.

I'm really starting to worry about you. You really come across as manipulative and demanding to me. First, yesterday, telling me what to vote (admittedly, you had a pretty good case backing it up) and now you're calling the shots. What concerns me is that chess followed your demands.

[Beefster]

Should have read farther to see Beefster's claim. Not exactly sure if I buy it, but it's enough for him to be safe from my vote.

Beefster

can you explain why you announce your satisfaction with your BE vote as of this post?

I found him suspicious and was waiting for a reaction (which never actually came.)

[Beefster]

How would you say that I've been manipulating people? I'm pretty sure that I've been rather

up front about what I want

(I hardly feel that being demanding's a bad thing). As to telling you to vote for the person I felt was scum... why woudn't I do this? I don't see myself as calling the shots here, care to give examples past chess (I say past chess because chess would've said "ok" to pretty much anybody saying yes or no)? I've moved towards BE, but the votes are still on substrike, and I'm being called scummy for my change (without people actually pointing out how my logic is flawed). I don't really see this as being the guy calling the shots.

Note the italicized.
-I think you're a little too upfront about making points- which looks somewhat manipulative. You seem to have gotten chesskid to follow your "orders." (which, you're probably right- is a nulltell)
-I'm not so much suspicious as concerned. For the past ten posts or so, you seemed to be very matter-of-fact about things that aren't exactly facts, which bothers me. And some of your suggestions looked more like commands to me.

Maybe it's just your posting style, but I will say IGMEOU.

[Beefster]

Only the last ten posts or so? I thought I'd been doing it for the majority of my posts in this game, but I guess I thought wrong.

No. It's been longer, but it didn't really stick out until that point.

[Beefster]

Also, on the matter of dedication... Something that I've figured out is that confidence is more likely to get people to look at what you are saying than anything else. I you aren't confident, people are more liable to ignore you.

By the by... let's do a field test, shall we?

Everybody on the Substrike wagon:

Please present a case as to why substrike should be lynched over [your next highest scumread here]. Aso provide reasons as to why your next highest scumread is your next highest scumread, just to be a bit more complete on the matter.

-Lurking
-He first suggested the idea of ck being a jester, yet kept the vote on.
-I don't remember much else. I'll be back later with a proper ISO.

[Beefster]

...Actually, to be completely honest, after an ISO, I don't really find SS22 to be that bad. He looks fairly pro-town. He's not posting frequently, yes, but when he does, it's actually content. This is what I get for not reading thoroughly when I was catching up... Then again, you can't really blame me. 70 pages is A LOT.

unvote

VOTE: Blooderection
I'm disturbed most by his votes on the claimed masonry, essentially ignoring the claims. Once he threw his vote on LLD, he pretty much disappeared and has only posted 4 times, once to throw a vote on himself to determine the shift.
Full town/scum list = bad.
HOLY CRAP. SO MUCH TUNNELING ON LLD AND NIKANOR!
I noticed out about 5 posts with a decent amount of content. 5/160. So he's ~97% active lurker when not outright lurking.
I find it VERY strange how his suspicions haven't changed at all since the beginning of the game. Maybe he's a lyncher.

[Beefster]

3. Beefster this post is weird. Are you calling Rayfrost scummy? When you say that Rayfrost is calling the shots, that doesn't mean anything. If Rayfrost is making good points and you agree with him and is actively scum hunting, that's a good thing. When you just say: Rayfrost is calling the shots and people are following him that's a scum thought of process.

Point taken... Although I can't explain why, his playstyle looks strange to me- overly assertive... or something.

8. Beefster: What's the difference between a scum sheep and a scum leader? (i.e. how do you know it's not sheeping scum in say chess versus Ray-scum leader in your case)

That's actually what I was implying with my chess/ray point.
I would say a scum leader is almost a micromanager. Every little detail is watched and every little action is controlled. Likely only one per faction.
Scum sheep adapt to the town's current opinions. These guys are easy to spot, but are becoming less common.

[Beefster]

SK and scum would not know each other were scum sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Not necessarily- Yellow could be a second scum faction. Nothing is proven by the flip color.

[Beefster]

I'm not a vig. I am Farore. The nature of my role, if not my role itself, should be obvious to anyone who knows the least bit about Farore.

I don't really want to read anything. I still want BE dead.

I thought you had claimed cop. But rethinking, I realize that you confirmed Cupcake since you're in the same masonry. I will end here. There's no reason to speculate out loud about a townie.

[Beefster]

SK and scum would not know each other were scum sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Not necessarily-

Yellow could be a second scum faction.

Nothing is proven by the flip color.

Something strikes me as odd here. The bolded part reads like a scum slip. Now that we have 3 colours flip (2 scumcolours from my understanding since a strong man is not a town role) the connotation that yellow was the second scum faction rather then the first when it was blue and yellow on day 1 doesn't sit well with me psychologically. It reads as: someone who knows a little too much. I'll try and do a search to see if the words "second scum" was used a lot. The person who used it first should be suspect for this.

Understandable suspicion. There were 2 kills on N1, perhaps a cross kill. Also considering that there seems to be a distinction between boss scum and perhaps some other type of scum. Yellow seems like a pretty reasonable color for a second faction, whereas usually there is a red faction for the first. Mind you, purple hadn't appeared at the time and BE hadn't flipped.
I was simply giving an example why it may not necessarily be the case with the SKs and such. It seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Beefster I had a post that I wanted you to reply to here in regards to Rayfrost. He's dead but take me through your thought processes to why you thought his leadership was scummy. We know the punchline was wrong, but I want to see your logic.

Something about his play just seemed... off. He was very assertive about what ck3 was to do last night, which threw up red flags for me. There wasn't a whole lot of logic in it, honestly, more of a gut feeling saying something was up.

Thanks, ck3 for using your power. It saved the town from a policy lynch later on.

With BE dead, would it be safe to say that the shift is gone?

[Beefster]

5. Beefster: Are you saying that Aikage is scum then? A cross kill would imply that Aikage-scum claimed the kill on yellow. Nikanor's soft claim on UT makes sense to how UT died (it was a soft claim that UT targeted Nikanor). Both kills are accounted for

and those aren't the important ones

. We are missing a few kills

and that's what's important

.

He isn't necessarily scum (You need to take into account vigilantes, doctors, roleblockers, and multiple kills aimed at the same target), but this is definitely worth noting.

FoS: Aikage

[Beefster]

VOTE: Aikage
I'm not liking his play or claim at all.

Aikage, please

quote

your role PM.

Back with an analysis in a bit.

[Beefster]

Aikage starts by complaining about his role.
He invokes so much WIFOM.
He appears to be pulling a scum gambit in his most recent post:

i didn claim vig, ebcause im not a vig. im pretty sure i klled fate last night. i targeted him with my action and he died so im guessing my action was a kil last night and there i sno shift. i dont want to say much more beacuse i know claiming is bad for town bc it gievs scum info on what to do it at night. i only claimed this much because people kept saying a vig should kil me!

as for scum be has still not shown up. i think he is lurking so he deosnt have to make posts anymore which might lead us to his buddies. or that he hopes the lynch will not happen bc he is not here and cant claim.

i think Akr voting me is really scummy! i killed scum last nighthow could you vote me? he unvotes be too sohe thinks he can get be saved y trying to get bandwagon on me for twisting my post!

This makes no sense whatsoever.

And BTW DTM: my comment on crosskills was with regards to night 1, but thanks for bringing Aikage to my attention. I would have missed him otherwise. (due to his lurkiness)

[Beefster]

beefsters vote on me is bad because he doesnt understand my roll. i guess he isnt scummy for it though becausei haent really been clear about stuff, and since akr is trying to say he suspeted beefster i dont akr is bussing the beefster.

i still dont think we should e talking about flavor and how osses are scum ewhne we have a sage who was really a ghost. it just shows you taht dram is a really good mod (now that my roll is more clear to me, i dont hate himfor givin it to me anymore) at makin setups.

This reeks of scum. How do you know so much?

If you say the town will better understand your actions if they know your rol

e

, yet you refuse to tell any more than the useless flavor name. I did a full claim because it would be good for the town. If you're town, you should do the same. If you're scum, you should remain silent about it so that we can catch you.

[Beefster]

Ythan you are the antitown one, it is bad to be so rude to people. but im thinking your town still even tho your bein an ashole

Ythan is being Ythan. Rudeness is a nulltell. You have to look at other stuff to get the big picture.

Drippingolfball, i dun get what you mean by all the points and the colors. can you explain it more for me plz? Im happy i have a vote so i can help lynch scum now, its akr and probly mothrax, i think dtmaster is right about him

I don't really get it either. But it looks pretty legit. Vote analysis is a great tool.

i still think its bad to claim so early, i thought you were supposed to claim at l-1, why do yuo guys think i should claim so early?

Remember what happened day 1? We HAD to go with a policy lynch because there was NO time to shift over to a better lynch candidate. If Gandalf/Shotty would have claimed earlier, we would have avoided that.

[Beefster]

Afiak: If I'm not clear here's it simplified:

If Beefster thought the wagon was policy based

he wouldn't call Gandalf scummy

. He would say that this wagon was a policy based wagon and he had other scum reads that were stronger.

There was no time for anything better. It was 2 days before deadline at that point.

[Beefster]

Fuuuuuccckkkkkkkkkk... ><;; I don't think it's viable to keep Nameloc around. FUUUUCK this puts a wrench into things.

What is this all about? Are you up to something?

IGMEOU

[Beefster]

NM that. I read your post above that. We'll just get someone to vig him.

[Beefster]

Beefster said that Gandalf's lynch was a result of policy lynching. But Beefster clearly stated originally that he thought Gandalf was scummy. Beefster is showing a disconnect by saying it was a policy lynch over a scum lynch. Thus the jist of the case is:

Because Beefster says that Gandalf's lynch was based on policy, this is not a town mind set since he is distancing himself from the wagon. The majority of the people thought Gandalf was scummy. As a towns person, even though the lynched a useful PR, the player himself was scummy and it was a town derived kill on a scum-suspect (which narrows down who they think is scum).

When Beefster mentions that it's policy and Aikage should claim because Gandalf didn't claim on time, this isn't a town mindset to scum hunt. It reads as role fishing because when a person doesn't claim, it's another nail against their target (for their case). Also when Beefster said that claiming would have avoided a Gandalf lynch, that's completely a lie because Beefster said that the claim was scummy in it self based on it's role.

So Beefster showed 2 cases of lying (on why gandalf was lynched, and that the lynch could be avoided), 1 case of poor argument (which reads as role fishing), and shows signs that his actions are more scum derived and townie derived when you question his posts with: What's the purpose of the question he's asking/What's the purpose of the statement he posted.

To explain my position, Aikage claimed "Medigoron" earlier. He says that knowing his role would help the town in understanding his play, but he refuses to claim fully. I'm seeing some scummy inconsistency here.

[Beefster]

@Beefster

Except we lynched the vig yesterday

. Um.... how does that work again? Also you think the other possible vig is scum (see Aikage).

What gives you the impression that he's a vig? He could just as easily be scum with a kill power.

BE's cukoo's explain both the attack on Cupcake and JmJ's death (read the flavour again) who was our day vig (since the cukoos attacked and resolved during the day). Aikage is the closest thing to our claimed night vig.

You missed my arguments on you in regards to what you stated about Gandalf. You just brushed it under the rug?

Did you or not think Gandalf was scummy?

. Calling it the only choice is bull shit if you were actually scum hunting. You fight tooth and nail for your scum reads, you state who you prefer over the leading wagon. Where did you do this again? Who were your preferred scum reads over Gandalf and why? Show me where you did this.

The shotty side looked scummy, as always. Since that was all I had really seen at the time, I thought GIS was scum. Once I saw more of the gandalf side, I realized OH CRAP. This guy's probably innocent. Too bad deadline is just 2 days away.

Also

defined to me what makes Aikage scummy?

Tell me why Aikage's refusal to full claim is scummy, since you called it scummy? There is no reason for Aikage to claim since he chose to claim his targets/results. He pre-emptively chose to do this, drawing in attention onto himself. Just like my point about Nameloc/Chrono, this has no scum motivation to put your neck out for something flimsy. Aikage was flying under the radar earlier, and was under no pressure to claim information.

Is that the main reason for your case?

Inconsistencies. Fluff. Lurking.

[Beefster]

The shotty side looked scummy, as always. Since that was all I had really seen at the time, I thought GIS was scum. Once I saw more of the gandalf side, I realized OH CRAP. This guy's probably innocent. Too bad deadline is just 2 days away.

Were you afraid that you were going to be lynched for it?

No. Although I would have preferred to lynch scum.

[Beefster]

wow life has been really crazy. im startin to like dtm more and more the more i read his posts! i understand his case on beefster completely since it involves me.

for those that dont get it dtm is sayin that beefster said that i should claim because if gandalf had claimed early (like beefster wants me t oclaim early) gandalf wouldnt have been lynched. but beefster said back on d1 that gandalfs claim was scummy!! this is a really bad contradiction and i don know why there arnt more otes on him.

unvote:
vote: beefster

i still think akr is scummy, but i am not active enough to make a really good case on him im afraid and i dont think many peopl ewill listen to me over dtms scum read, which is proabyly smart.

speakin of not bein active, mothrax is still very scummy. he keeps makin excuses and defenses all over people sayin he is lurkin!! i am inactive too and i have excuses oo, but i dont spend all my postin time complainin aout them or defending myself. mothrax has spent a lot of his last posts sayin he wasnt lurkin and shouldnt be seen as scummy fo lurkin and blah blah blah but he promised content and never delivered, which if he wasnt complainin aout people sayin hes lurkin he would deliver them!

Nice OMGUS. What is your role?

[Beefster]

nameloc1986 (5): "Fluffy", "Bridget", A Flying Pot, Peahat, Tektite
Beefster (2): DTMaster, Aikage
Aikage (2): Beefster, Mothrax
Chronopie (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Bunnylover (1): Kdub
DrippingGoofball (2): zwets, ABR
mothrax (1): Le Cupcake

Not voting: Chronopie, Ythan, vezokpiraka, AKnottedRope, DGB, Knight of Cydonia, nameloc1986, Bunnylover

Didn't Aikage say he was voteless? He doesn't look voteless to me.

[Beefster]

I affirm my role claim as 100% true, as quoted and given by Reck. I'm not gonna argue- your suspicions of me are pretty valid. I tend to go for risk/reward in the other direction- I almost always look like scum, but what I do is usually for good reasons. I'm a very cavalier player. (If you don't believe me, check out my wiki page and past games- though it is a bit out of date- just by a couple games)

Kairyyu only needed to claim the miller part of his role. It wasn't entirely necessary for him to claim any farther at the time. I claimed yesterday to help with the shift. My big question goes back to our dillemma with Aikage-

If he thinks that knowing his role would help the town understand his intentions, why isn't he claiming his role? I can't think of any pro-town reason for this contradiction.

There is a time and place for every claim. This is one of them.

You can't legitimately make any accusations regarding Dodongo/Ghoma/Barinade until Ghoma or Saria dies. What bothers me is Chrono's point about Ghoma unsealing Saria, while the others are attached to the adult bosses. I think that's a stronger hint that Saria is scum, not that Ghoma exists and is scum.

I guarantee you there is at least one scum on my wagon; I'm especially wary of its leader, DTMaster. Some of your arguments on me (and the tunnelling) have been quite a stretch. What also bothers me is how you're defending Aikage like a beast. Do you think Aikage is in any way scummy?

FoS: DTMaster

[Beefster]

@DTMaster: Can you think of any pro-town reason for Aikage's claim contradictions? If it's anti-town, wouldn't it be a good idea for him to claim so that he is no longer anti town in that regard? Does it not deserve pressure?

MOD: I will be V/LA all weekend for the SAT and a book report.

[Beefster]

It was only a flavor claim that tells us absolutely nothing about his intentions that he claimed were related to his role.

One thing that irks me is how Aikage said his role had something to do with an inside joke with Reck. If the setup is determined beforehand and roles are distributed randomly, why would he have such a fitting role? What are the chances of that? Unless we have a bastard mod, it's pretty low.

[Beefster]

@DTM: 3 things:
1. The instinct of survival is a null-tell. There are plenty of good protown reasons to do everything you can to stay alive, as are there anti-town reasons. It's pro-self, which ends up being pro-faction in the long run.
2. I think you're missing the point that Aikage is holding back information that he claims will help the town.
3. We don't have any concrete proof that scum were given fakeclaims... at least not all scum. We have a little evidence from Substrike, but he may have made his fakeclaim up himself, modeled after his real role PM. It wouldn't be that hard. You wouldn't have to do more than change alignments and fix a few flavor words.

[Beefster]

Except it's not Aikage being "pro-survival". He's doing the opposite. In this case for scum-Aikage he's more inclined to claim to survive. In town Aikage, he's risking lynch which is death) at the moment with his reluctance to claim. I'm not debating on why Aikage should claim to survive, I'm showing you that it's how Aikage handled this claim that makes me read it as a newb risk all situation.

A good case (if I can pull it out I'll find it in Nikanor's wiki) was MrSuave in one of Nikanor's game. He claimed a role that would would get him killed N1 if he chose to claim. As a newb player, he got himself lynched because he was anti-town all game. He flipped

Doctor

. He was at L-1 and claimed that he would die if he claimed (or close to it). If you do that in hindsight you see that MrSuave was hinting at that all game, even though he's being anti-town. He deserved the lynch, but at the same time if you ask yourself the question:

What's the motive in claiming that? It's just easier to claim Doc as scum/town so why be that round about it?

I believe the direction could have become more constructive.

If I apply the newb argument to Aikage (seen by his date of joining the website) it parallels a newb player with an awesome role being anti-town. I'm not missing the point.

You've dodged the question, once again.
He claims that knowing his role would explain his motives, yet he refuses to claim. It's not even close to the example you gave.
Maybe VOTE: DTMaster will make you give a clean-cut answer.
Bus your scumbuddy already.

[Beefster]

1. I'm assuming you are referring to the fact that Aikage claimed: "I have an important role, here is my results" but "I didn't to full claim" contradiction you are point at. Did I not mention it earlier?

This is a vanillaless game. Everyone is important. And by saying that, it really means that nobody is important. Your point is invalid.

[Beefster]

unvote

I really should read to the end of the thread before I post my points.

[Beefster]

Umm... Beefster like I said

what is new that we learned that I haven't outlined other then Aikage is reading like a 100% idiot for doing a night action with his day action

. There isn't. I was basing my assumption on AIKAGE'S PLAY not his ROLE. His PLAY reads as NEWB. I'M INCORPORATING HIS PR STATUS as a NEWB PLAYER with a PR.

Beefster

why aren't you commenting on Aikage

? Why the fuck aren't you making a judgement call? You sir WON AND GOT AIKAGE TO CLAIM. You sir were pushing for A SCUM CASE on AIKAGE. This is what I'm ANGRY ABOUT. You sir WHO PUSHES FOR A CLAIM DIDN'T BOTHER EVEN READING AND ANALYZING YOUR HARD EARNED RESULTS THAT I ALREADY POSTED IN THREAD 2 WEEKS AGO.

YOU SIR ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT WHAT AIKAGE'S ROLE IS THAT YOU IGNORE THE IMPLICATIONS ON WHY AIKAGE DID HIS ACTIONS. YOU SIR IGNORED THE KEY POINTS IN MY DEFENSE THAT SHOWED AIKAGE WAS BEHAVING IDIOTICALLY ALL GAME.

Oh wait, YOU NEEDED A FULL CLAIM TO DO THAT. You IGNORED MY ANALYSIS ABOUT HIS MOTIVES BECAUSE HE BEHAVED LIKE A NEWB. YOU SAID MY POINTS WERE INVALIDATED BECAUSE AIKAGE CHOSE NOT TO CLAIM AND THIS INFORMATION WAS REQUIRED. RIGHT NOW YOU LOOK LIKE SCUM PUSHING FOR A CLAIM. MAKE YOUR FINAL JUDGEMENT CALL.

No more ALL CAPS, okay? His claim is consistent with the facts. It explains some of his play. You seem on the spot for the rest of his play. I didn't think I really needed to spell that out.

[Beefster]

Hey DTM, don't give yourself a hernia...

Beefster is obvscum, and his most recent post doesn't help his case at all.

He claims that knowing his role would explain his motives, yet he refuses to claim. It's not even close to the example you gave.

Except he's claimed, and his claim is believeable. At the moment, my read on Aikage is town.

VOTE: Beefster I want to see more of these from other players.

Beef:
Did you ever hit with your rolling attack yesterday, or did you always miss? I can't remember
Have you used your attack today? If so, on whom? If not, why?
Do you think there is still a shift?

I hadn't read up to the claim when I posted that. I figured Aikage was still in la la land and just responded to DTM's arguments.

Kairyuu hit Reck on day 1. I hit bunnylover on day 2. We were determining the shift.
READ!
BE's flip seems to be evidence of there not being a shift anymore. We'll see what happens when I use my power today...

I wonder what would happen if I hit that one guy with all the self votes... (I forget who)

[Beefster]

It's SensFan now

ROLLING ATTACK: nameloc/SensFan

Maybe... Just maybe... this will clear his self votes permanently and buy us some more days. I seem to recall him getting more self votes between days.

And now you know I won't use it on myself, and I will confirm if there is no shift.

[Beefster]

How is your argument valid, KOC? People change their minds, especially after claims.

FoS: Knight of Cydonia

[Beefster]

Time between

Why hasn't Aikage claimed?

He should get lynched by now.

and

unvote
vote KOC

You are trying to get an easy lynch out of a VI.

is 3 days. As it would turn out, YOUR argument is invalid, Beef.

How so? Don't forget the CONTEXT.

There was a claim between the two posts.

Yeah, there's not much of a intermediate progression, but if you look at the context, the action seems justified. (not to mention that vezok's posts tend to be short anyway)

[Beefster]

If he's a miller, why wouldn't he claim it? There's no reason not to.

And BTW, I was making a point about KoC making a crap argument and later reinforcing why I thought it was crap. I hadn't really thought of it as defending vezok, even though that's what it ended up being.

[Beefster]

HOLY CRAP! There's still a shift! I just got an invalid target PM from Reck. Someone else is pulling the strings.

This may sound crazy, but I've been thinking... Could BE have had a role that allowed him to flip anything he wanted? I've heard of this happening before. (Though it might have been a bastard game; I can't remember) Maybe he's actually in kahoots with the real shifter and pulled a flip gambit. Have any sages been unsealed?

[Beefster]

HOLY CRAP! There's still a shift! I just got an invalid target PM from Reck. Someone else is pulling the strings.

This may sound crazy, but I've been thinking... Could BE have had a role that allowed him to flip anything he wanted? I've heard of this happening before. (Though it might have been a bastard game; I can't remember) Maybe he's actually in kahoots with the real shifter and pulled a flip gambit. Have any sages been unsealed?

What if it isn't possible for you to remove the votes?

Hmm... I hadn't thought of that.

[Beefster]

2.Beef: BE explains the Cukoo kill on JMJ and attempted kill on Cupcake. Also he stole the vote from Substrike. Unless you're telling me we have a screw ball, I don't understand what purpose it would be to not:

a. They could frame the masons by making Nikanor scum. Unless you think it's in reverse. ><;;
b. They coordinated a vote steal, and 2 kills with cukoo flavour just cause and put it all on BE.

I thought it was strange how many roles he flipped. The vote-stealing is probably his own power, but the other parts of his role could have been fabricated. We have no evidence that BE was the Cucco-killer aside from the flip.

None of the flips show a role that could be involved with the flip.

Response to bolded: Isn't that kind of the point?
BTW, this was in between the next 2 quoted sentences, for the sake of context.

And finally: Since when did the flips show that we got rid of the shifting player ><;;;... So it stands to reason that we still have the day shift. DURHHHH.

BE was our day vig. Not our shifter. He was a REDIRECTOR which is an entirely different role to OZMODAR SHIFTER.

Why didn't you bring this up earlier? Are you hiding something? (IIRC, you only asked a question about it. Perhaps you were fishing...)

FoS: DTM

Something isn't quite right about your arguments. You seem to know a lot that the rest of us don't.

[Beefster]

^EBWOP: Omit Response to Bolded. I bolded the one sentence originally, then decided, for coherence, to tear it off from the rest of it's paragraph.

[Beefster]

1. Beefster. I'm going to go very, very, very, very slowly for you to comprehend how I know the shift was in the game and how your theory is full of crap because it's unlikely.

a. BE was the Cukoo killer because of the following posts made by Dramonic. THIS IS MOD CONFIRMED INFORMATION DONE THROUGH FLAVOUR YOU IDIOT.

Ihmo Read the words where DRAMONIC says BE calls out the "final word as Cucoo". I bolded it for you person who refuses to read to make his arguments.

Point taken, except you ignored the other part of my (crazy) theory. None of those showed evidence of redirection. That part could have been fabricated.

b. None of the roles shows something involved with a shifting role (ie like Ozmador which was the role in MIND SCREW 4). Therefore the shift would be in the game. I don't understand why you are suprized.

c. The reason why I didn't bring up that the shift was still on because I assumed it was common knowledge. Do you understand what a redirector is? No apparently not.

It's something that can easily be misconstrued for a vote shifter. I was convinced that they were essentially the same thing.

Read what BE was. Now add in the post-based in front to add on some condition to his redirection power.

Therefore logically: BE also had a power to redirect based on posts and/or post numbers. DURP. I GOT THAT BY READING THIS LINE:

Post-Powered Redirector Compulsive Vigilante Vote-Stealer

and understanding what the REDIRECTOR ROLE does from experience.

Herp derp more please I'm tired of this "you know too much nonsense" when everything is within reach inside the fucking thread when you read it.

I dunno about that. Your arguments have been kind of a stretch.

Plus you're ignoring my points on you Beefster. Why?

What points?

[Beefster]

I'm just going to vote whoever DTMaster is voting.

Why?

[Beefster]

Ihmo Kdub: Aikage's invention will go haywire and be shifted. I'd rather have Aikage give an invention and then the person who received claim it if you really, really want to role confirm him

Then Beefster can try and get rid of Senfan's self votes since we know the shift on the first try.

Then lynch a scum case.

"glares at AKR"

So You don't think I'm scum?

[Beefster]

d. This point you missed:

2. As much as I HATE BEEF for the lack of Aikage comments, and I had to do all the bloody work pre/post claim in regards to the Aikage case, the nameloc thing reads as town brownie points.

It bothers me that Beef didn't try this earlier today when I mentioned Nameloc/Senfans would be a danger to the town . The timing of my attack to the sudden shift to "lets try and get rid of Nameloc votes" is terrible in my opinion. It's like a giant smoke screen.

However I do dislike some members of the wagon on Beef and find them increasingly more scummy then Beef "cough" AKR "cough".

You're not off the hook Beef. You were adamant about this claim that you didn't finish the job in finalizing your case analysis. You are using my work and saying: Everything is done. I had to ask you what your view was to get the: everything is said quote and even then you don't even weigh in on Aikage's alignment. .

How you handled the case, and the transition to "stop the Nameloc votes" is terrible. Awful. You didn't show a care in the world for 3 whole days, nor did you show a care about Nameloc/Senfans till now.

All I read is someone who's fishing for townie points now.

How am I supposed to respond to this. You never asked any questions, and it's pretty much just your opinion. I see where you're coming from and why it looks scummy. I'm not really gonna argue because it makes sense to me. You can suspect me all you want.

[Beefster]

We see no reason to extend the deadline - replacements have been minimal, prods have been rarely needed, and none of the replacements were done close to deadline. We will talk further about it, but I wouldn't expect any grace from us today -_-

Finals? Most of us are had, are having, or will soon have finals. Some grace should be given for that, right?

[Beefster]

Mod: Vote count please

Based on the general sentiments of people at the moment, these are the viable lynches given that the deadline is less than a day away: Aikage, Beefster, AKR, DGB, KoC. Of those players, there are less complications involved with Aikage and Beefster since they have claimed already. If we wagon someone else, I don't think there is time to get a claim, analyze it, and then possibly switch to an alternate lynch before the deadline. Beefster is the player I am most willing to lynch among those five anyway, so I'll put my vote there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Beefster

I would be willing to lynch DGB. KOC and AKR, I haven't seen what people are finding scummy about them, but I may have just missed/forgotten what people have said about them.

Can we please not let Bunny live past tomorrow?

Then vote him...

[Beefster]

That frog is going to be there

Quite

a while, if all it does is sit there until I action, seeing as I have none (atm).

Shift theory.... The frog is related to the shift. Whose head it's on affects the shift based on their relation to Chronopie.

Rolling Attack: Chronopie's Wagon

[Beefster]

VOTE: DGB
Better than no-lynch... And I don't think I have enough evidence on DTM. I really think DTM is scum. Something is... off... about her.

[Beefster]

Oh, right, that. One moment while I read.
...Hm. He comes across as a competent player who's being screwed over by the mechanics. And if his Rolling Attack does what it appears to do, I can't see a thematic reason for him to be scum. While I don't agree with many of his points, the reasoning isn't necessarily scummy, and he's actually putting an effort into this game, although he has invoked some degree of WIFOM with the whole

I almost always look like scum, but what I do is usually for good reasons. I'm a very cavalier player.

thing.

I wouldn't lynch him right now without a certifiable Cop guilty on him. That can, of course, change, but right now, I have no wish to see him dead.

...Except for the part that I'm a miller...

[Beefster]

...Sigh...

VOTE: KoC
Better than an Aikage lynch. Aikage doesn't come across as scum, just stubborn newbtown.

[Beefster]

Except for the part that I'm a miller...

Wut?

Kai claimed miller somewhere around page 30. Also read my role PM.

[Beefster]

Kdub [BONGO BONGO],

Boss Area of Effect Redirector

, killed N3[/b]

Does this mean the shift is gone? Sounds a bit like a shifter.

[Beefster]

And once again DGB's vote analysis doesn't make sense.

[Beefster]

I'm torn on bunnylover. He's active lurking on the one hand, but on the other hand his rage seems genuine to me.

DTM is probably not associated with Aikage. I really doubt there are more SKs. This doesn't clear DTM.

VOTE: DTM for now.

[Beefster]

Beefster needs a vig shot.

Like, ASAP.

Why?

[Beefster]

Oh.. V.V. Beef can you pull out a case other then what you agree with me and that you think I know too much

despite me posting quotes and links to where I supported my arguments

. I don't quite understand the case.

It felt like you knew too much about the game. When you posted "evidence," it seemed like you were interpreting it to fit your needs. It just seems odd to me.

Plus you're not scum hunting when you're not questioning me. Question plz k thnks.

I've been directing questions at others all game. How isn't that scumhunting?

[Beefster]

O.K. I'm happy with DTM so far. Beefster, what did you do last night please?

Powerwise, Nothing. My power is a day power.
Other than that, I did an analysis of the shift. The frog that has been passed around has absolutely nothing to do with the shift. In other words, the only way to find out the shift is with my power or some other visible day power. I also concluded that it is, in fact, correlated with the current playerlist, and not the original playerlist.
I can post my analysis if you want. But I don't really want to bore you with the details. And I don't want to convert it to BBCode.

[Beefster]

unvote

VOTE: vezok
Now that was just opportunistic. Do you have any reasons for your vote, or do you just want the claim?

FoS: YThan

Attacking a confirmed mason? Yeah... How is that pro-town?

[Beefster]

Beef's most recent post is terribad. Also, why haven't you used your attack today to try and figure out if the shift is still active? I'd volunteer to vote myself to try it.

Great, thanks. I was waiting for a volunteer or a vote I disagreed with.

[Beefster]

For clarification: beefster, why is vezok's vote opportunistic when no one else's was?

He jumped on a large wagon with little reasoning and asked for a claim. Is that not opportunistic?

[Beefster]

Immediate response before I post some analaysis after rereads:

1. Beefster: The question issue comes from the fact that you had your vote on me. Thus I was your main case and/or your main person whom you wanted to scum hunt at that time. Hence: Where are the questions/case good sir.

I don't have to stay on the same target all day. I can ask outside the one person, can't I?
Why insist that I tunnel?
On a sidenote: It was only a temporary vote. I hate not voting- there's usually something to be gained by having your vote somewhere at all times.

2. The analysis of the day shift was done

on day 1 and confirmed day 2

. Kai confirmed that there was a day shift day 1. You confirmed via my push that Exlion did not get a day guilty on LL that the shift changed, and that the shift was probably based on the player list. I don't understand what evidence I did not reveal considering that the analysis was already done. I'd expect you to keep some memory of that when I got the shift analysis to be completed.

I don't understand why it took 2 extra days for you do to understand the day shift

when both Nikanor and I outlined the conditions of the day shift back on day 2

when you were rolling attacking.

-I thought the shift had disappeared from BE.
-I was looking for a correlation/pattern, hoping to be able to predict what the shift is. Unfortunately, I didn't even find out whether the shift was activated before each day or somewhere during the day. All I discovered was that there was no correlation with the frog.

Likewise: If you believe that the shift is or is not present

you can confirm that by rolling attack my vote on AKR

. You think I'm scummy right? So roll attack and remove my vote because you think I'm scum.

Fine.

unvote

Rolling Attack: AKR's Wagon

[Beefster]

VOTE: Vezok... After the rolling attack.

[Beefster]

@Ythan: Why not just VOTE on BL? Afraid to bus?

Reading through Ythan Iso post.
Incredible I found shit. The only scummy thing he has done has been his sudden disappearance during Day 3 which was due to finals (semester ending)
His play is consistence throughout each day.
If Ythan is scum, what will be his downfall is his Townish play early on to his lurkish play at the moment.
I am still suspicious of Ythan, even though my try at making a case on him failed, but at the moment he has shown he is town, and I even believed he breadcrumbed a few time.
Right now these are my reads:
Town: DTM, LLD, ChronoPie
Null: Beefster, Ythan (for now), AKR, Mothrax, Zwet, ABR,
Scum/Scummy: Le Cupcake (Their was one scum in one of the mason group, its not a long shot to say their can't be one in the other mason group. Also the fact that Cupcake just comes in, votes, doesn't explain anything, then leaves), Vezo (Pro Lurker is pro), DGB (Already stated why)

For the Null, I am leaning more on this:
Null Town: Beefster, ABR, Ythan
Null Scum: Zwet (Lurker), AKR and Mothrax (haven't seen a great amount of contribution)

This post is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. SO MUCH FENCESITTING. And then you blatantly buddy with Ythan. Thanks for telling us your scumpartner.

VOTE: Bunnylover
DIE SCUM! DIE!

We don't need a claim from you. Just die.

[Beefster]

@Ythan: Why not just VOTE on BL? Afraid to bus?

Clearly, because calling my vote and not placing it sure would be a useful scum tactic. Oh sorry, that's retarded, I'll come up with a better explanation. You're my other top suspect and you have a wagon-affecting action.

Which has been used today. So vote away if you really think I'm scum. I'm not stopping you.

[Beefster]

You're left with: You agree with me. But you think I'm scum. Like wut?

It can happen.

After I debunked your arguments (ie. the redirection argument, and that BE was the day killer) by posting mod confirmed information and wiki role information you are left with actually no case outside of that.

True.

Scum players dislike cases made on them and sometimes when it happens it can strike a nerve they go and retaliate. You're not being town. I'm asking you to produce a case. You're going I DONT NEED TO BECAUSE I QUESTION OTHER PEOPLE SO YOUR ASKING IS INVALID is not a town response.

If you actually cared about the case on me you'd attack me. I shouldn't need to ask you to attack me, nor should I need to direct your actions so that you remove my vote to see if a day shift is occuring. But oh look, I'm doing that now. Herp derp.

I was waiting for a vote I disagreed with or a volunteer. You pointed out a good reason for me to roll attack you, and while I agree with the vote, it was basically a volunteering moment.

I haven't really objected to many cases on me. They're wrong, of course, but logical.

Nor does it look like you care about your case against me. Especially when you changed to Vezok and BL wagons, you don't even advance your attack on me at the same time. I have a gut read on BL earlier (based on her trying to think of alternative points of view during the Aikage wagons) that read as town. Vezok is plain bad scum from my reads. I'd prefer Vezok over BL in this wagon, and I may oppose the BL wagon. I need to reread BL, but the way things are I dislike your entire play today.

I think I might be wrong about my original accusation. The vote at the beginning of today was only temporary, following the previous day's arguments until I had time to think it out. Now that I have, I realize that I made a mistake.

[Beefster]

@bunny: think about it. If the goddesses are not alignment-confirmed, why aren't they attacking each other? Your argument really doesn't hold water.

Consider the following:
-A group of 3 masons are, for some strange reason, NOT alignment confirmed.
-One of them is scum, 2 are town. One of the townies dies later.
-The scum will probably attack the townie at some point.
-The townie will attack the scum if he thinks he is scum.

Say our masonry is as such. (WHICH IT ISN'T) Considering Cupcake's play, LLD would be attacking Cupcake right now, (rather than just chastising, which I could see happening in reality) regardless of her actual alignment. Considering the fact that they

are mod alignment-confirmed and Nikanor flipped Din, why are you still attacking LLD?

[Beefster]

VOTE: Bunnylover I know I said Null-Scummy yesterday, but that he's continuing to display his ignorance on the mason/neighbour issue justifies a vote. I still wouldn't mind seeing Vezo hang either.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing your mind over time.

[Beefster]

Unvote

Beefster, I'm curious. Did anything happen to you?

What do you mean?

[Beefster]

Beefster please talk about something other than pointless hypotheticals.

How about a scum list? I need to post more of these.

Scum (in descending order of scumminess):
-Bunny (for insisting on attacking confirmed masons)
-Vezok (for voting opportunistically on bunny)
-DGB (Not playing to town meta)
-zwet (bad lurking)
-AKR (I don't remember why)
-Ythan (Potential buddying from bunny)
-DTM (Stretching facts, gut)

@zwet: PLEASE POST SOME CONTENT!

[Beefster]

@DGB: is there any reason why you didn't mention the gray scums in your vote analysis?

[Beefster]

Gray is definitely a scum faction. Look at the flip. It appears to be the boss-scum faction.

Why don't you think Ythan is scum?

Good point about zwet, though.

[Beefster]

Kdub [BONGO BONGO],

Boss Area of Effect Redirector

, killed N3[/b]

Yeah. That. Boss faction right there.

[Beefster]

Anyways Beefster if you believe I'm stretching the facts, by default you must believe my points are invalid. You agree with me though. Why?

Not all of them. Even the biggest liar tells the truth every now and then.

You said my points were logical and that you couldn't counter them. But if I'm stretching the facts, that means I'm misrepresenting you. That also means I'm stretching invalid arguments to paint you as guilty. But you wrote in thread that my points are valid.

How can you say that I'm stretching the truth but be valid at the same time? You're contradicting yourself here in this argument.

They're never the same arguments. Some arguments are completely valid, while others are slight stretching of the facts. I guess it does look like I lump them all together, so I understand your confusion.

For the most part, your arguments against me are pretty understandable and thus valid. Whereas some of your arguments, on Aikage for instance, were in fact stretching the facts. You probably aren't in the same faction, but you get the idea.

[Beefster]

Did the mod Pm you and tell you anything happened to you?

Beefster, this needs an answer. Badly.

DTM: I need beefster to answer this before I do anything, so hold off for a sec.

I have not recieved any PM from the mod. When I missed in the past, I received a PM with the contents "invalid target." Obviously, I hit, but I never got a PM in the past for hitting.

Why is this answer so important anyway?

[Beefster]

True, LLD. I also find it suspicious that she did not analyze the gray scum votes.

@AKR if you are implying what I think, it is possible your vote came too late(after the rolling attack)

That is exactly what happened. I posted the rolling attack inthread (and by PM) before AKR self-voted. From what I understand, the attack is resolved immediately.

[Beefster]

Why? She's confirmed town anyway, and I had mentioned it earlier. Just reiterating.

[Beefster]

^Not necessarily.

[Beefster]

^Not necessarily.

It looks a lot like you're pathetically latching onto any shred of evidence that one less than astute player thinks you're town.

Or I was pointing out a fallacy...

[Beefster]

@Ythan: If you think I'm scum, why aren't you voting me? In fact, why haven't you voted at all yet?

[Beefster]

I KNEW IT! DTM WAS SCUM!!!!

And WHY? Why was a CONFIRMED MASON lynched on the last day? Come on YThan!

[Beefster]

I KNEW IT! DTM WAS SCUM!!!!

And WHY? Why was a CONFIRMED MASON lynched on the last day? Come on YThan!

Because read again? You can't have understood it on the first pass.

I didn't read it. Not yet at least.