Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Dekes]

I will not be robbed of my RVS-Vote.

Vote: Untrod Tripod

because I had to look up half of your name to understand it.

Hai Castlevania/Lost guys.

/useless stuff

Unvote; Vote: chesskid3

Nothing much to add. Good wagon on bad scum. While reading through the thread at first I thought he was just the same noisemaker he was at the beginning of the last game I played with him. And he turned out not to be the VI that you could get the impression of. But I have no idea who he thinks he can convince with his empty threats and desperate pleas.

No idea how the wagon on JABOC built. I'm with jenni and scummy chess here. Scummy people on an easy wagon. Am I the only one who immediately thought JABOC was simply aiming for reactions on his first "random vote"?

LLD is town guys.

Care to elaborate here? I get quite the opposite impression. I've not seen that much of her, but an FoS in an 28-player is less than nothing and extremely non-committal, especially considering how much LL was showing her dislike of JABOC's behaviour.

I actually am a miller CPR doc, by the way.

I have a tough time buying anything you claim.

It's because he always does this kind of crap. Best advice is to ignore him until he's been taken care of. And at least CPR doc/miller is easily provable without town losing unlike...let's say a cop claim as townie with a guilty on another townie right before LyLo >_<

PEdit:
Shotty, does anti-town mean lynch-worthy in your eyes?

[Dekes]

Sheesh...so much information to work through. Just a few points here.
Regarding chess' claim:

You are a

One-Shot Double Suicide Bombing Vanillaizer

.

Am I crazy here or wouldn't it be far more logical if it were "One-Shot Suicide Bombing Double" rather than "One-Shot Double Suicide Bombing"? If I'm totally off here, please disregard any of this but I'd think the mods would be more careful with their role pm's than a made-up fakeclaim by chess.
And since when can a bombing role choose their targets. Isn't bomb usually (if not always) targeting their lyncher/targeter?
A lot of that claim doesn't add up.

"empty threats and desperate pleas". Not true at all, but it creates an easy way for him to not have any suspicion from joining this wagon as scum, after my flip.

There, there and there you go.
Btw, while I'm in your (133-post long) Iso, why the hell would scum wanna roleblock you?

Chess, if you are suspicious of Chrono, UT, Ythan and me why is your vote still on LL? I know, it would probably won't have much of an impact on today's lynch but if you were town it would at least show your comittment and that you're still willing to scumhunt.

NO CAPS 4 U. CURRENT NON-OFFICIAL ALLIANCE IS:
YTHAN
FATE
BE
DTM

Hope this is just a caps lawk-alliance (though I wouldn't approve of that either). Last time I saw an unofficial alliance formed scum slipped into it and it had great impact on the scum win in the end. Iirc you even modded that game.
Granted though, it's far more dangerous in a mini game. Still something that caught my attention.

- Interesting to see, Cupcake was targeted shortly after they claimed being able to help BE die.

- Another interesting note: Le Cupcake's vote is still their page 5 vote on JaBOC (where the hell is he, btw?). They've not done any real scumhunting in the last 23 pages although they've been active throughout. 90% of their posts in that time span was bickering with BE.

- Don't like Gandalf/Shotty's and evilpacman's sneaking onto the wagon between all of the bickering.

@Le Cupcake
Who are your top scum picks and why? Are you still content with your vote on JaBOC? Katsuki, do you agree or disagree with your other head's opinion about chess?

Now, let the catch-up posts coming and then get some rope for chess.

[Dekes]

Taking a break from rereading [ongoing game].

Unvote

There's no scum motivation for trying to clear a buddy whose lynch is basically inevitable without dooming both of them once one of them flips, so I believe Nik here.
Chesskid has significantly calmed down. Good. Let's just see what happens when Ythan returns.

I'm not sold on an Ythan or mothrax lynch though. And I don't get all the LL love. I've yet to see actual productive pro-town behaviour by her.

Le Cupcake, now that you're backing off from the chesskid-lynch (after not comitting to it at all ), could you give your suspects and reasons (apart from BE)?

[Dekes]

Vote: diddin

@Le Cupcake
I didn't see any actual stances of who you think is scum. You hint at BE and Fate and you are referring to Fate's list (which was in fact an anti-town vig list, not necessarily a scum list). Please point me to your stances or simply repeat them now. Doesn't take that much effort.

[Dekes]

lead me to the conclusion that everyone has an element.

I don't have an elementar modifier.

Vote: Le Cupcake

(lazy diddin scum's been replaced anyway)

I call fakeclaim. All these snippets she's given screams of lazy scum giving out just enough info (that's already been presented in-thread by others) to say that people should get off of her nuts.
Thought process: "Nayru's blue -> the aquatic race has been mentioned in this thread, so I'm clear there -> Naryu aquatic goddess, neat fake claim".

LL, you are wrong. Nayru's NOT aquatic in any kind whatsoever and has never been mentioned as such. Because her stone is held by the zora race doesn't make her aquatic and assuming so is reaching.

Calling for lynch on someone who was able to protect against kill.

Are you implying because you are bulletproof you are more likely town?

Another explanation would be scrambled flavor because Nayru's love fits the mod flavor so far (though I believe mods can be sneaky enough to give a scum role Nayru's love with Nayru as safeclaim to lead people off-track). After all I was a goon as a pregnant woman in Reck's last game.

I'm also wary of zwet's claim. I personally wouldn't wanna have Barinade on my side. And he first called miller cpr doc and now is reflexive cpr doc, which makes him un-targetable by any non-verdant role.

Le cupcake's higher priority though, so all aboard.

[Dekes]

Is this conclusion based on flavor speculation only? If so, I'm not buying it.

And Cupcake's Iso isn't convincing me of her townness either and hasn't been for quite a while.

[Dekes]

I would argue I did more than accusing chesskid. I'm not the most active person, true, but I never am.
Interesting though, that instead of looking into Cupcake's Iso you're looking into mine trying to discredit me by implying my opinion on someone's Iso is invalid because my own Iso shows lack of activity.

I voted diddin, because I think he's scum. Since he's been replaced and ZONEACE hasn't talked so far I won't elaborate this one further for now.

I can give you a good reason. Flavor-wise Nayru isn't aquatic in the game, why should she be here, when it's evident that not every role is aligned to Aquatic, Verdant and (mountain-like)? I'm not aligned to any of those, why do the godesses have to be if they aren't in the game either? I don't see your logic behind it.

[Dekes]

Also, I don't remmber anyone claiming any kind of verdant.

[...]Unless that person is from a verdant race[...]

From zwet's claim. Not 100% proof but I don't see how he could made this up and I do believe the three main races (five if you include Gerudo and Hylians) are part of this game.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
@LL
So you know it?
Because Cupcake sure as hell didn't claim such a thing.

[Dekes]

Because you are the guardian of a race doesn't make you one of the race.

Impa is Zelda's "guardian", but that doesn't make her a Hylian.

Cab you link me to a site that says Nayru's of the aquatic race? I googled it and ZeldaWiki'd it but I haven't found anything so far.

[Dekes]

Also Dekes, why contradict yourself? I believe Link would count as a verdant, as he grew up and lived most of his life in Kokiri Forest, even though he isn't a Kokiri.

What the..? Where did I say that? I never mentioned Link, but FYI, I do not think he would be a verdant. I see him rather as a Hylian.

[Dekes]

Okay, different ZeldaWiki. That would make at least the claim believable (if it's not a safeclaim). Doesn't convince me of her alignment though. She's been accusing a lot of people of misrepping her and has been pursuing only lynches of people who expressed a lot of suspicion towards her. And there's still the fact she was so adamant on lynching chess (Isos #13, #16, #17, #55, #56), yet never lays down a vote on him. Way to passive-aggressively push a (mis-?)lynch without voting.

And the relations between you two and the fact you're on my scumlist, too, solidifies my suspicions on both of you.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: "pursuing lynches by voting them"

[Dekes]

I love how I make a point, and prove you wrong, and then you turn it around as a scum tell?

I don't see anything anti-town about showing something that is false about your accusations...?

That's not the relation I meant and that's not part of the case.

[Dekes]

I meant more the fact that she called you town on several occasions lacking solid arguments ("She's always scummy, but she's town here, guys") and you following her with an Ythan vote based on a very weak reason. Ythan obviously didn't believe Cupcake's claim her believe and voted on that. You turned it into that he knew her claim was right but chose to invalidate it and that he voted on false information.

PEdit:
She said it had to be true based on flavor speculation. I showed her that it can be very well proven otherwise when taken flavor into account (which turned out to be false though).
And I clearly said, I do not think everyone is aligned to elements, because I am not. I merely said I believe they are in this game.

[Dekes]

Sorry, unexpected L/A.

Agree with chesskid here.
Let the LL/Cupcake/Ythan argument rest for another day. Town is split on these two and the arguments revolve too much around flavor speculation and they involve way too much spamming where scum can lurk along. Tomorrow we'll probably have more clarification about the flavor after seeing some flips and can draw our conclusions accordingly.

But if you want a case on Cupcake not including any flavor speculation, it's here.

Btw, one more aspect of flavor speculation then I'm done with it. I have no problem believing zwet's flavor. I see it perfectly possible that a verdant race would be able to resist the electrical charges of Barinade. I do have a problem with the discrepancy between his original "only miller cpr doc" and the subsequently added info of reflexive which makes it a completely role than originally claimed...I'm not convinced zwet's role is town and therefore that zwet is town either.

I'd like people like ABR, ZONEACE, Mafuyu, zwet, jmj and whoever to stop complaining about the thread's length and weigh in more. Yeah, the thread is long and filled with spamming and I wish town would come to a consensus in the near future. But we'll definitely get there quicker if everyone shares their opinions. Just pick some points that stood out to you or look into Iso's of people who you find suspicious.

Like this:

maybe he's a night 0 cop!?!?!?!?!

@nik!!!!!!!

- are you claiming N-0 cop or something?

I'm not trying to role fish but I think it may be nice to know if any of the other Goddesess(if there are any) have an element with them, that would solve this.

Rolefishing at maximum.

unvote
vote ythan
for reason stated by LL
btw she is 100% right about what she's talking about

Okay, I'm still not read up, but Nayru is NOT aquatic. She's a goddess, her race would reflect that. Oh, and ythan is town, please stop bein stupid.

Contradictions.

- He's hopping on chess' wagon because chess is anti-town.
- He's calling for a policy lynch on chess long after he's been cleared by Nik.

Anti-town players don't get lynched on D1. They get vigged or are looked into later. And it's even easier with chess. If at some point someone gets vanillaized and chess is still alive, we'll lynch his sorry ass. If at some point Nik dies (he pretty much softclaimed daycop and I don't know how long scum will want to have him around, only because town is unsure about Nik's alignment) and flips scum, we'll lynch chess' sorry ass.

Bottom line of GIS' Iso: Zero scumhunting, contradictions, rolefishing.

GIS: Can you please specify which of you is saying what. I thought it'd be easier to differentiate between you two. And can you please give me a reason why I shouldn't vote you? Actually I don't think you can.

Unvote; Vote: GandalfIzSik

You should really work together as a hydra to avoid such mistakes

[Dekes]

EBWOP: "on these three"
And "completely different role than orignally claimed"

[Dekes]

Can we all come to the conclusion that Cupcake's claim may or may not be a fakeclaim?

Fact is, the claim seems somewhat consistent. Blue particles can logically be explained by Nayru's love. Nayru can be aligned to water and the mods may have turned this into her being aquatic. At least it's nothing to argue about over pages and pages. And we don't have a cc of Nayru (although honestly I doubted we'd get one anyway. I expect Reck to give out safeclaims. I don't think I've seen a a game from him where there weren't any fakeclaims given to scum.)

Fact is also, even if Cupcake is Nayru, the aquatic goddess, that still doesn't automatically determine her alignment. Reck loves scrambled flavor and we already have somebody who basically claimed being town-aligned Barinade.

@Kdub
Here's a case on Cupcake without any flavor speculaion in a nutshell. Add to this the fact she let LL do most of the defending. Yeah, I know, RL can be a bitch, but Katsuki (I don't know who the other head is) had an average post count of ten posts per day over the last week without any significant decrease on any given day, so why not pop in here and do the defending yourself?

@Ythan
The contradiction was only one part of the case. Point taken though. These contradictions are merely indicative of poor hydra communication, not necessarily scummy. I'd advise anyone to look into GIS' Iso themselves though. Especially the repeatedly cop-rolefishing and the calling on a policy lynch on a person cleared by cop, thus avoiding any real scumhunting, stick out.

[Dekes]

Already liking RayFrost.

Guys, let's get this wagon on GIS moving. I wouldn't mind seeing LL or Le Cupcake swing, but GIS is even scummier than those two (which is an accomplishment in itself).
What a stupid softclaim by GIS: "I'm a very important role, I can be important in endgame." Why did you softclaim this at all, if you're so powerful and important. Nobody asked you and you weren't under a lot of pressure. And why do you wanna ask for getting vanillaized if your role is so great?
You're either trying to draw the NK or scum pleading to town to leave him alone. And I'm heavily leaning towards latter.

With half the people lurking or being useless (chess, Aikage, Chrono) and the other half undecided we need to find a consens soon. This right here, all this confusion, is only working for scum right now.

@chess
What's with the case on Substrike you promised? Instead you decided to vote a lurker instead...that's awfully pro-town.

Fate, why is LD scum?

I wanna add here: Why is LL scum and Cupcake town?
Sorry, I can't see scum motivation for defending a townie for well over 20 pages over flavor. This seems too much of effort to look townie.
It's more likely that both are scum and since Cupcake is bulletproof LL is defending her heavily so not to lose their most powerful(?) role D1.
The other option would be LL town and she just believes Cupcake is town beyond common sense.
But I simply don't see LL-scum/Cupcake-town motivation for LL's behaviour here.

Btw, can anybody tell me what's the case on Chronopie apart from being bloody useless. Wouldn't a vig be more helpful in this case?

@mod

Second the vote count. Can you get one in before you two lovebirds go to Montreal? The last one was four days ago.

[Dekes]

That would be my other option. I only ruled out Fate's opinion on those two.

I'll take a look into Sub's Iso. Ironically if he really voted Cupcake for lurking, since I've seen him at least four or five times in this sub-forum without posting in here. Last time was like five minutes ago.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
"Over the last few days" I meant to add.

[Dekes]

We could always lynch Bunnylover instead.

Seriously, apart from getting slightly scummy vibes from Ythan, that you say can be explained by his playstyle of aggressive one-liners, you haven't expressed any suspicions towards anybody whatsoever. Fence-sitting and lack of scumhunting throughout the whole game so far. Who are your suspects and why?

You say that the LLD wagon makes sense and in the next sentence you say you don't agree with it. How is that not contradictory?

Then you go on and vote GIS out of policy reasons although you don't like the wagon at all. How are your reasons better to vote than the ones on the other wagons that you attacked?

Add some rolefishing on chess and zwet to the mix and there's a

Unvote; Vote: Bunnylover

Will switch back to GIS if needed, but I feel more comfortable with Bunny now.

@GIS
Gandalf, you simply excuse anything shotty says as being his usual VIness. It's your job as one half of the hydra to work together with him and express your mutual opinion. If shotty acts scummy that doesn't mean you and your hydra are absolved from any guilt just because your posts are half decent.

ZONEACE: I called diddin scum a long time ago and the way how Zone's stalling and lurking his way into D2 (it's not like he isn't active on the forums) only cements his scumminess, but he's not the right lynch for D1.

Substrike: I can get behind this wagon and it's more due to the fact that the last couple of posts he made was only exiting out of lurk mode to defend his vote on Cupcake and not addressing anything else only to go into lurk mode again.

@Exilon
I don't think anyone has dropped LL at all, it's just that the triumvirate of Ythan/LL/Cupcake is off the hook for today since their argument is heavily if not exclusively revolving around flavor issues and we should wait for more flavor and/or investigation results before we proceed in that area.

[Dekes]

@Dekes:
Its true, I haven't said who I find suspicious or scummy. But I like to point out your contradiction. You say I haven't suspected anyone, but in that same sentence you say I suspected Ythan, but said I played that off. I suspected Ythan, I was given a reason why my suspicion was on him, due to his play style. Where have I fence sat?

Im getting a scum vibe from Ythan, but I believe thats because of his way of posting which is like I'm higher and smarter then you, so please just get in your corner and cry =/.

I think Ythan scumminess is associated with his one liner play style.[...]
Unless I have missed a case that you made on him, I'm leaning on Ythan been a null tell.

This is your train of process regarding your suspicion towards Ythan. That is not taking a stance, that is fencesitting. You didn't even vote him, why are you so afraid to vote somebody in such a big game? The only persons you voted for were the biggest wagons. Scummy as hell.

Lack of Scumhunt? That part is true. Which is why in my previous post I questioned Aikage, because I don't understand why someone ask, "Hey let get a wagon started on this person," But he doesn't vote for that said person. I'm not great at scum hunting, but I'm trying. Also, their are 28 players, and your saying I'm the only one who isn't scum hunting?

Because you have the highest ratio of posts/non scumhinting. Instead of pointing to others why don't you get on and hunt scum?

But I feel comfortable with my vote on you, until someone who I find reeking of scum comes along. I wouldn't worry about anything though, I doubt my vote will stay on you enough for you to be lynch.

He has around 10 votes on him, is by far the biggest wagon and deadline is ~72 hours from now. What makes you think he's not in danger of getting lynched?
And are you saying that in 70 pages who don't have any suspects at all?

Your play only leaves three conclusions. You're either

a) insecure town, afraid of attacking people and only sheeping the biggest wagons,
b) lazy town, not reading the thread carefully and only popping in for one or two useless questions, but this

Now do you understand why I'm checking this thread like every 30 minutes.

makes me doubt it, or
c) scum.

In either case you're just useless to town. You're lucky for now that others are scummier at the moment, but if there's a vig, I implore him to take care of you (though there are lot of options at the moment). Otherwise I'm going after you tomorrow.


I'm with Nikanor. If GIS hopes to have a slight chance of avoiding rope he needs to claim his role now with deadline in less than three days.


@Substrike
Really? I said in my last post you keep on appearing only to defend your Cupcake vote and you just proved my point. Do you have any other suspects at all? Anyway,

Unvote; Vote: Substrike

However, while his vote for Cupcake is for the wrong reasons, that doesn't change the fact, that Cupcake is again avoiding this thread now that they're not in any danger of being lynched.
Does anybody know who the other head of Cupcake is? Because Katsuki is merrily posting in the forums again and not posting here. I don't care if her other posts are only small posts, the fact remains that the only thing Cupcake posted in this thread in the last week was one post, where they admitted to sheeping Fate and hopping on the GIS wagon and one post where she said she needed to catch up in this thread. That's such and age old excuse for scum to avoid any committment to the thread. You don't have to re-read the whole thread in order to contribute to this thread. I don't see how anyone can see Cupcake as town, all flavor issues aside.

[Dekes]

@Bunnylover
Do you think Aikage is scum?
I voted Substrike over Cupcake because bigger waggon and deadline is close. Simple as that.

@DTM
I didn't vote Substrike because he voted Cupcake for the wrong reasons at all. I expressed and explained my suspicions one post prior to my last post. I could of course repeat the other reasons that's been brought up against him, e.g. Jester speculation on a person he keeps his vote on or the shift of reasons for which he voted for Cupcake among others, but since I won't be able to convince people of a Bunnylover wagon in time and because I thought GIS had more votes already on him, I switched to another good scum candidate.

And I don't see how Substrike and Cupcake can't both be scum. This can reach from bussing to several scum factions.
Fact is, Kat announced V/LA and yet posted in other threads.
Fact is, the other head didn't announce V/LA and didn't post in here either.
And this may be not a generally accepted idea, but I just expect more activity from a hydra.
They've gotten really quite since they are out of the crossfire and their vote on GIS to sheep Fate is just opportunistic, since I don't think they've mentioned GIS at all before.
I've made a case on Cupcake way back that didn't include active lurking nor flavor issues and these recent actions just add to their scumminess.

What is your stance on Cupcake? Are you content with their scumhunting activity? Or are you content enough that they've just been coasting on their BP claim and even let LL do all the defending for them?

@chess
Mass claim.

[Dekes]

Whaddaya know? There they are again. Only to defend themselves. Funny you are right there to post when you have to.

Less defending, more hunting. Or are you still re-reading?

Anything to add to your GIS vote? Or the substrike wagon? Or anything at all?

[Dekes]

Better hurry then. Deadline's the 24th.

[Dekes]

Fine. Since you three have painted bull's-eyes on your backs anyway, you can go ahead and tell us if you three are alignment confirmed so we can lay off of ya.

@Bunnylover
Do you think your questioning of Aikage (who clearly has shown her lack of intesrest in answering questions and the game in general) is helpful at this juncture?

I'll switch over to GIS in 24 hours since I don't think we'll get eight more votes on Substrike before deadline unless GIS comes up with a really convincing claim.

[Dekes]

Good to know...so we can expect less Ythan/LL squabbling tomorrow...definitely a plus.

Pedit:
Well, you can go back and question Aikage tomorrow. I'm doubting you'll have a lot of success with it. Unless she's killed off by a vig tonight, which I would definitely approve. But while we're at it:

At the more experienced players: Is a non-voter more likely a scum or a town role? I see major downsides for either of them during endgame.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
non-voter should be voteless of course...

[Dekes]

And by the way Dekes, I love how you assume I'm scum, and still say you would unvote me. You'll unvote "if I come up with a convincing claim". Assumes I'm scum, but says he'll unvote me anyways.

I'm not on your wagon, genius. I said I'd switch over to your wagon, because I don't think enough people will switch over from your wagon to Substrike's unless you can come up with a claim, that would make them believe you're town.

And now, hours after your claim and not a single unvote/vote switch. Wonder, why that is?

I guess, the point by Rayfrost seals the deal. Because in the post he quoted it didn't look like GIS was speculating about in-game Oot characters who didn't have an elemental modifier. It sure as hell looked like he knew that in this game here there are roles without an elemental modifier. And nothing in his role PM indicates, that he should know.

I'm heading out to a party now. If he's not hammered by tomorrow noon GMT+1 and no one has any objections I'll hammer him then.

And *headdesk* @people still considering LL and Cupcake being scum. Do you really think they outed a (whole) scum team on D1? And with them being such powerful roles it won't be long until one of them turns up dead and then we'll know for sure on which side they're on. Until them I'll treat them as town.

[Dekes]

O MI GOSH IT'S WIFOM

Yadda yadda. Wifom or not, doing what Nik did would be simply stupid as scum. Do you believe all three of them will live till endgame? And if one flips scum they're all going down since the mods confirmed, they don't screw with mason alignment.

Unless there's a lot of Ythan/LL presence in this thread before the mods arrive, I doubt we'll break it.

[Dekes]

Gee, sorry guys, very unexpected V/LA over the last couple of days. Halloween festivites right now. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Dekes]

I'll keep it as concise as possible here.

My vote on Substrike:
I posted that I found scummy that he only came out of lurk mode to defend his Cupcake vote and address nothing else. In his next post he did the exact the same thing and so I posted that he had "proven my point" and voted him for that.

His reasons for voting Cupcake had nothing to do with my vote on him. I disagreed with his reasons, yeah, but that's not why I voted for him at all. At that time I thought Cupcake was scum, too, and I stated my reasons for why I was thinking that and how my reasons differed from Substrike's.

My vote on diddin:
Yep, this looks odd, because originally I didn't have a vote in my post. I added it after hitting Pedit and seeing diddin's over the top scummy post. If anyone wants clarification why I think diddin/ZONEACE is scum, I'll elaborate, but it seems that ZONEACE has been MIA again.

My sudden(?) case on GIS:
When I first posted in this game, suspicion was already cast on chess and there was no point in making a case without repeating what others had already said, but I agreed with the points against chess. I presented a small case on Cupcake later on and a short while after that town seemed to be split on the LL/Ythan/Cupcake debate. So I took the time to look at some ISOs of suspicious people (same thing I advised people who were struggling to catch up or annoyed by the spamfest by LL/Ythan) and I came across GIS' ISO and made a case on them in order to try to get town out of that LL/Ythan mess and look at other people.

It's funny to see this argument (the lack of scum hunting argument is a scum sign) over and over when I also notice a lack of scum reads from Dekes in ISO #2.

I do not like at all that you're trying to frame me for this. I've been pretty transparent and open with all my suspicions and you quote a single post from me where there are no apparent scum reads by me and you call it lack of scumhunting/suspects. That's an awfully weak attempt to strenghten your case.

So that's that.

I'm surprised this post did pass by unnoticed:

Hey Exilon, why are you going for LLD? Why are you not going for Cupcake?

Vote: Substrike

The neighbor thing seems town. If not, it will bite them in the ass later in the game.

Huh? Care to explain? You think neighbors are town, yet you're voting the first neighbor that has outed himself?

I'm in the "There'so scum in the neighborhood"-faction. Masons claim they are aligned. Neighbors claim they are not aligned. Mods confirm there's no bastard modding involved. So I'm going with that. And I still approve of a Substrike lynch. He was scummy before the lynch, during the lynch and afer the lynch. Could help clarify the situation.

@Substrike
How is Chrono's standing within the neighborhood?

@Chrono
How is Substrike's standing within the neighborhood?

And now to the shift. Since I see no motivation for scum-Exilon to come forward like this unless he really wanted to trade one scum for the PGO, plus the evidence of D1 (btw, remind me to check -13 on Cupcake, she may not have been targeted after all) and the fact, Exilon is not dead makes me a shift-believer.

Now we don't know yet if the shift value changes every day, unless every player votes for themselves (or we find the person who's missing his vote in the process) and I doubt we'll get everyone to vote for themseleves.

Pedit: Where did you read the Rolling Attack definition, DTM? Did Kairyuu post this in thread? Or did you get it from the Wiki? Because I was under the impression that a wagon would be destroyed and you couldn't vote that person anymore and not that the persons on the wagon would lose their votes?

Well, if latter is true, I'm gonna test this out on Nikanor. Since I have a vote on me already and Nikanor should've been hit if -13 is still active, maybe it'll clear things up.

Vote: Nikanor

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
I meant to add DTM's case on me at the top of my post.

[Dekes]

By all means, do. Right now the whole shift debate is pretty distracting. The sooner whe have confirmation, the better.

[Dekes]

Looks like there's no shift activated on this game day.

He said while not contributing to the plan to determine the shift.

Seriously, this shift business is killing this game right now. And if only half the people are working with the plan to self-vote/cross-vote, we only have two choices now:
a) Either the rest of the people vote accordingly and see if Beefster's Role attack got shifted or
b) we screw the plan and start playing mafia and just have to ignore all day action results

@Substrike
How is Chrono's standing within the neighborhood?

@Chrono
How is Substrike's standing within the neighborhood?

Just want to remind Chrono and Substrike again to answer this question.

And since we know neither the person on me nor the person I'm on (DTM) is affected by the shift, I'm gonna go ahead and

UNVOTE: VOTE: Substrike

This could solve the other main topic here. I still think he's scum and if he is indeed, we'd have confirmation the neighborhood has been infiltrated and the neighbors could come forward and out themselves and we could have that out of the way, too.

And now for some regular business:

Seeing as how the game has slowed down, feel like explaining any of your reads good sir?

Seeing as how the game has slowed down, how about you finish that re-read you've been promising to do for a good 40 pages now.

Hate to take chess' side here and present a case on you, but your play has been awful and most likely scum. You are abnormally quick and always the first to answer with a "Wuh wuh, where's your case on me??", whenever being attacked (zwet, chess), but you're lacking in content for at least 50, 60 pages and the only thing that can be called substantial in that time span was a poorly ripped off case on GIS who was the main target at that moment anyway. You promised to examine the other wagons, too, but never delivered.

And Rayfrost, the fact, that you attacked chess in here and called him non-contributor while leaving the godfather of non-contributing alone, is duly noted.

[Dekes]

@Rayfrost
You give jmj and zwet a pass, because they are fluffposter in general? So it's usual, that jmj comes out whenever being attacked but not to scumhunt and hence he's town or at least unattackable? Okay.

And no, I'm not pushing for a jmj-lynch now, because town is still too invovled in the neighborhood issue and I want that resolved first.

It's of no value if neighborhood know that they've been infiltrated? Care to explain that?
And if there should be two scum factions why would one get the chance to infiltrate the neighborhood and the other doesn't? That'd be a heavy imbalance if one scum team would know five people as town and the other wouldn't. But that's speculation that's useless know that we haven't seen a neighbor flip scum.

Pedit:
I was mainly siding against you, jmj. You've been re-reading for sixty pages now, you have not expressed opinions towards the shift situation, the neighborhood stuff or given valid suspicions with solid reasoning and you've only asked people who attacked you for a case.

I agree that chess is a noisemaker, though. But since his claim is still confirmable there's no way for me to believe he's scum at the moment.

[Dekes]

Dekes:

#1 Please read what I said again. I'm on chess about providing a case that he's promised repeatedly. I'm not bothering with the regular fluff posters because I feel there's more important things. Like lynching scum. The fluff posters are unlikely to do anything aside from posting fluff, and they are vigbait to me, not people that a lynch should be wasted on.

#2 I don't see a heavy involvement in the neighbor issue in comparison to the shift issue. Aside frm that, why would you prolong lynching someone you think is scum for such a flimsy reason in the first place?

#1
But fluffposters can be scum as well. I would name you an ongoing game...but I can't. And it wasn't really fluff like some of Bunny's, Chrono's and Aikage's statements that look like they saysomething when they actually don't. But in jmj's case he's only either "I'm rereading" or "Where's your case on me?". So he deliberately stays away when no one's talking about him and pops up when he needs to.
Okay, in hindsight it may have been better if I had chess present his "case" first, true. But I had jmj on my radar for a while now and his last episode just was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

#2
Because I think Substrike is scum, too. And his death would give us more info than jmj's. I don't see that as a flimsy reason at all.

#3
Point conceded. I read your second sentence wrong where I thought you'd said that it would be of no value for the neighborhood if they knew whether there was scum in their group or not.

Pedit: Not time for that post now.

[Dekes]

@Rayfrost page 94
I think both jmj and Substrike are scum. I can make cases on both, but I can't vote both. I chose Substrike over jmj, because his lynch will give us more info. To say I'm voting him solely to solve the neighborhodd issues is absurd. I made a case on Substrike before and now on D2 he has one post of substance and then once popping up to ask if the shift has been resolved. No active scum hunting involved whatsoever.

Do I think a vig should take care of jmj? Absolutely. But if this doesn't happen I'll go after jmj again, because like I said, I don't think his posts are that nulltell fluffy as you seem to think.

@Bunnylover
What happened to your questioning of Aikage on D1? Does her latest post change anything about your read on her?

Regarding the shift:
I agree with trying to target one of the masons for clarification. Some still believe they are a scum team and it's been distracting for the rest of town.

[Dekes]

The votecounts got changed to that Aikage is sometimes on nameloc's/Mafuyu's wagon, sometimes not. Wtf? Secret voter maybe? Anybody with experience there?

[Dekes]

So apparently Aikage isn't voteless after all since all D1 modcounts show Aikage voting for Mafuyu.

Aikage:
a) Clarify and
b) Vote

[Dekes]

Ahahahahahaha, I KNEW Ganondorf had to be hiding somewhere (resurrecting = Ganon was in the game as well?)

Sorry for flaking out, scum fellows and Reck and dram. I was still rooting for the boss scum all along (highly enhanced by having access to your scum QT). Way to go, guys!

Very enjoying game overall.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Did you decide to let Boss scum win or could you have had a shared town win if you wanted to?

[Dekes]

EBWOP²: Nvm.