Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[TomAndJerry]

/supconfirm

I'm loving the originality of all the players. Btw, I'm being totally serious.

This...This is going to be interesting.

~Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Yo Bwser, chillax man you are being a little annoying.

Mr Smith, I get your logic but how bout we all wait till Day one to annoy each other and call each other scumbags and such?

~Jerry (And I'm keepin the peace)

[TomAndJerry]

Personally, I thought the anonymity of Hydra heads was what separated this game from being like any other game.

I mean, if we just claim who we are then why the frick not just play with our regular accounts and do like a Mason thing?

Not claiming who i am.

~ Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

@TomandJerry - get an avatar please, thanks.

I'm letting Tom decide. For I chose the name.

P-Edit: Agree with Jerry. Jerry is a pretty cool dude.

If I didn't have pride, I would call you out for buddying. But Hey, a compliment is a compliment! (until you find out who i am and then it all goes downhill)

[TomAndJerry]

Oh and I gotta get used to this signing off thing

~Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

@ Prof. Para
thats not what I meant by signing off.

I meant putting ~Jerry at the bottom of my post.

~ Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

/confirm

Some questions,

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

1. Lateralus + ?
2. No, No. (Absolutes etc.)
3. Yes.
4. Don't know haven't read anything.
5. East. Pretty active...
6. Mason.

Interesting seeing as you haven't played as a Mason before, why are you lying?

[TomAndJerry]

Oh that was Tom, I'll try and get a better post tomorrow.

[TomAndJerry]

Seriously? You dont have to have played something to know that you would enjoy the role. I know that I would love drawing the Innocent Child role since it is essentially a VT, but can clear myself if ever needed. Have I had that role before? No. Would I like to? Of course.

Well actually, yes you do, I did a quick skim of his meta so I don't see anything indicating his preference to enjoying being a mason which leads me to think he's lying about who he claims to be, your thoughts on that?

[TomAndJerry]

I think that is a stupid thought to be perfectly blunt. You seriously think that someone is lying about who they are? In a game where they will undoubtedly be counterclaimed? Lots of people would like to be mason or anything along the lines of confirmed town since they can concentrate purely on scumhunting and not have to worry about night actions or being lynched. I will bet lots of money that he is who he says he is, no one will lie about that. I cant even think of something comprable that it would be lying to.

Alright, this is what I've learned from my questions First off FourTigers can't even distinguish two different players from another so he's failed horribly in proving his meta reading abilities.

Second it's obvious that despite how much FourTigers thinks meta is useful, I'm fairly certain he has not checked Lateralus's meta to verify his identity after my accusation. If he did he would see these after a quick look at a few of my games he would know I generally spend my time commenting on more stuff, in contrast to how Prof's post contained little info. (Note: I recall lurking in one game early on due to rl problems but I'm generally commenting on multiple things, this game was a exception due to what I wanted to try) Ok, maybe I'm being too harsh on the meta thing but then again he has constantly praised and advocated how important it would be to name claim and because of the meta info that'll be available. You would think he would investigate further if there had been an accusation of someone lying about their identity instead of [url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2582580]rationalizing[/quote] it.

Second, because this game seemed to moving very fast compared to what I'm used to before (This is my first large game) I'm revealing this now.

I didn't counter claim Prof before because frankly, I thought it'd be hilarious to see him try and impersonate me and my partner thought we should go along with it. Course I didn't want to leave him like the whole game so I decided more info would be gained if I caught him in the act. Initially when he claimed I was confused because I was like, wtf? Then I realized after both he and his partner claimed they're both probably in the let's know everyone's names categories so I thought they just wanted everyone to out their name.

Except, it doesn't make sense for them to keep it on this long, especially after I attacked Prof for lying because continuing this would end up confusing town if there was no claim and if his sole goal was to out someone's name it doesn't make sense for them not to say they lied about that after it became apparent they wouldn't get a claim since that'd be a more efficient plan for them.

tl;dr

FourTiger's meta ability isn't that good, and as such because of the lack investigation I doubt his intentions are real
Prof's claim is weird because the way it's presented hurts town more to keep up the charade instead of outing soon.

Oh,

Name claim: Lateralus22

~Tom

Did a skim of the thread, now I'm going to go read it and comment.

[TomAndJerry]

Tried to read through the meta arguments yesterday regarding how wise it would be to have a massclaim for names, ended up face palming myself because of how long it went and just decided to do my homework instead. The whole argument is null in terms of alignment, though I do think that if we continue to argue about this we should just get it over with now. I actually do like meta and I've used it in the past, but I've also seen it crash and burn no matter how convincing it may look. In this game I simply do not think meta will help because of the hydra setup.

This is exactly why trying to figure out meta is not all that helpful. However, this hydra has talked it over and decided that trying to figure out heads is a null-tell, not scummy. For the record, this hydra has decided to out itself as Untrod and CSL. Just as a show of good faith. UnFoS

It was a joke FoS. Who makes a "legit" anything in post #9? Do you think we're retarded?

That doesn't make sense, why would you UnFoS someone and give logical reasoning supporting this and then in the very last part of your post say your Fos was a joke? You treated it in a serious way.

Ice Cream 81:
Thanks for not being specific about ANYTHING. AT ALL. Seriously. Your post is like an extreme version of what makes Bowser scummy - making no commitments, using unspecific language. I don't care what you don't like, or what you think is anti-town, I want to know what you think is scummy and why. Anti-town =/= scummy btw.

I don't see anything wrong with her initial vote, and how is he not making any commitments when he voted in his next post?

You voted Pineapple while blasting away about how Us and TnJ were scum?

Weaksauce accusation, in Post #151 FourTigers was also attacking Pineapple (First two paragraphs)

It is questionable from the start. I have tried to withhold information, but I had my reasons for that, and I was planning to give our names away later in the game.

You didn't actually answer his question, why do you think it was scummy?

Why do you want to give scum a reason to lynch VIs? There's a reason for why they're called VIs. It is because they act like VIs.

VI's have the same exact chance of being scum, are there any notable VI's that you think we should all look out for in this game?

One of us thinks the RVS is better, the other thinks that RQS is better. And since my other head doesnt seem to be very active, we didnt really get much chance to discuss it. I personally prefer RVS though. However, the game is beyond that point.

Not going to fly, first off both you and your partner who you claim is not very active was here for the two of you to collaborate on your RQS answers which is odd in itself.

Second it doesn't make sense for you as an individual not to scum hunt because you've posted multiple times in first person (I).

In post #168 you spent some effort commenting towards FourTigers however you did not display the same effort for your vote. Why the lack of explanation?

This head wants to go for a Pineapple lynch, but I want to talk to my partner before we vote. Bowser looks pretty bad too with the FoS fiasco. Gut is bothering me about Mr. Smith.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

What type of tell is it that he claimed to be you?

The whole claiming thing is null, especially judging from Elli's character in the thread. His latest reactions seem pretty pro town and match with his character. I do want to know why Pacman didn't explain the getting reads reasoning in his first post, and why he answered first instead of Ellibereth.

PP fake claiming does nothing but throw confusion into the town

Eh dude, I don't see any confusion? The time period for posting this type of comment doesn't make sense. Looks like mudslinging to me.

@Master Spy and Chimaira

Why is it so important for me to answer my questions? I thought it was fairly obvious now that it was a part of my trap to lull Prof into reacting. A combo of being lazy and not thinking it was that important at the time was a part of not answering the questions.

1. If the questions are indeed useful for providing solid game information why did T&J not answer them when originally asked, or even later?
2. If the questions aren’t useful why even ask them? That would be a pure fluffing post then.

1. This is shit and you know it, I figured it was standard procedure to ask questions and not answer them until the end because it can influence people's responses. Later it wasn't even that important because I just went right on ahead with the nameclaim, but hey if you wish I shall answer them.

2. I take it you missed the whole entire part where I called Prof out for lying?

Lat has revealed that Professor Paradox fake-claimed one of it’s heads for lulz. This was a direct attempt to provide false information to Town in a way that would possibly interfere with Meta efforts by some players who favor meta. This has a similar effect to Hydra’s withholding who their heads are.

Cool.

Can you explain how calling them out for lying AND then outing them with a nameclaim fits the misinformation persona?

Can you explain how those observations at the end are inconsistent?

This post wasn't about scumhunting, this post to make sure we know Pacman is ubertown. And I don't like it at all.

??????? How does it do that, it's more of a shit I'm screwed please forgive me type of post, not oh look guys im so pro town and scum hunting. He'd probably put a serious vote down if that's what he was going for.

[TomAndJerry]

1. Lateralus + ? - Fairly straightforward, it's easier to keep track of the names for those who do out their name and it's a big topic of the game so far.
2. Neither, absolutes aren't good. Lying is dependent on situation and lurking should be pointed out and then they should be pushed into posting content in the thread. - It's good to know ahead of time that if someone doesn't like lying, they probably won't do it themselves for no reason. If someone says they don't like lurking, they better have a good reason for doing it themselves if they do.
3. Not really - It's a big topic of this game.

4. IIRC it would have been prof at the time of this posted but my opinion of him has changed since then. Pineapple's response makes me less worried about him so I'd say Bowser as of now. Being active yet lurking in this game when the attention's on you? Not cool. - Just a question to get the game moving.

5. GTM -5 IIRC (I'm bad with timezones) and I should be posting one or twice a day, my activity may shift back and forth depending on rl situations.

6. Well, I can tell you it's not Mason. It's VT atm, being town's more fun because of the investigative aspect of it. I think being a cop would be pretty fun if I got the chance though. - This was the most important question for me to ask as it would expose Prof's lie. I tried to not be so obvious so I snuck in those other questions, which really are nice to know to I guess but not terribly important since this game did have some action earlier. I was worried that he might actually research my slot so I probably would have asked him some personal questions later or asked about his tone of posting if he had responded. I actually didn't expect to get backlash for my lying attack since it was obvious to me.

@Pineapple

I'm glad that you actually did have some reasoning for your vote but why didn't you say this before earlier?

Eh my partner told me he doesn't have too much to say, I discussed some of my thoughts with him so hopefully he'll respond and be more active.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Both posts are Tom btw, I didn't sign one of them.

[TomAndJerry]

Yeah, do you think those opinions conflict?

[TomAndJerry]

Responses tomorrow, don't have much time today.

Vote: Bowser

Screw waiting for my partner. You started lurking while actively posting on the forum, after you've been getting attacked by several others? The contradiction in your reaction with the FoS thing was bad enough without the lurking.

The lurking doesn't make any sense from a pro-town view either, and you did post this earlier too.

5) PST and EST. Um...very active?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

They could "slip up" on purpose and then take fake townie points for it, right? That's why I'm not telling.

An accident does not and should not give you townie points, it's strange of you to suggest that. I don't see any indication that this was not an honest mistake by them.

Do you think we were outed on purpose or by accident?
Do you understand the argument I'm trying to make?
What have I ignored? I don't have the time nor patience to look through all your posts.

I think you were outed on accident, I think the same for IceCream. I believe you're trying to say they outed themselves on purpose to look town, and I think that argument is wrong.

Just search for your name and you should find things directed at you.

I don't see anything wrong with her initial vote, and how is he not making any commitments when he voted in his next post?

You didn't actually answer his question, why do you think it was scummy?

??????? How does it do that, it's more of a shit I'm screwed please forgive me type of post, not oh look guys im so pro town and scum hunting. He'd probably put a serious vote down if that's what he was going for.

Note about Prof: I think he's probably town due his explanation for false claiming. Before he outed, I outlined a possible pro town situation and instead of blatantly parroting that and trying to explain that to fit his story he just gave what looks like his honest thoughts on the situation. I see the honest approach more town and it does fit his play.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

You are trying to nitpick a statement apart. A statement that you don't understand. I was very clear that I would consider accidentaly outing your name to be a slight towntell. However, since it is such a minor tell, scum wouldn't abuse it, so I have no idea where you get that we think Icecream is scum because they outed themselves. You are turning my point around, and I don't know why.

Ok… then what's the point of these posts, are they just fluff, because you're going in a rather roundabout way to say you think it's a towntell, which btw made it very unclear to me >.>.

I can also tell you why accidentaly revealing your real name is slightly protown,

but scum would abuse that

, wouldn't they?

They could "slip up" on purpose and then take fake townie points for it,

right? That's why I'm not telling.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all what situation we are talking about. But I have a question, since these questions seem to be about the explanation of one vote: was it a terrible vote? Otherwise I don't really know why you are making such a fuss about it.

Are you freaken kidding me, you're so lazy that you can't even look at my Iso to answer a few questions?

First one's about your attack on Icecream, second is about is about Prof fakeclaiming, third is Pacman's reaction.

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom

PS: The lack of activity compared to a few days ago is depressing.

[TomAndJerry]

"Join or die" (bonus points for the person who knows which game used that as a subtitle)

Umm, That wasn't from a game. It is from a cartoon by Benjamin Franklin.

Anywho,
I probably should help out my partner by doing something.

Will work on that now.

[TomAndJerry]

EBWOP

"Join or die" (bonus points for the person who knows which game used that as a subtitle)

Umm, That wasn't from a game. It is from a cartoon by Benjamin Franklin.

Anywho,
I probably should help out my partner by doing something.

Will work on that now.

~Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Been busy, should be able to get a good post or two in tomorrow if possible.

First off, why is bv anymore scummy than Bowser? They're both pretty much doing the same thing. A turnaround to a bowser wagon would be cool but I'm willing to hammer bv if needed.

~Tom

Soz

[TomAndJerry]

No it would haven’t been any less efficient in terms of outing Prof’s fake name-claim.

There would be noise about why I was asking Prof questions/specific more personal questions. With just questions there may be a few who are like ugh questions suck but they still get answered faster.

You have to know that there was no way for Prof to continue to fake-claim the second you called him out. If Elli had persisted all you would have to do is make a response post and ‘accidently’ post from Lat and he was toast.

Not necessarily, maybe if it was just anyone then yeah but with Elli I wouldn't have been surprised if he was so bold to do so. Even if he would have confronted and outed himself I feel there'd be better reactions then rather than after a claim.

@Regarding the questioning thing, I figured it was just a standard thing for anyone to do.

===========================================================================

@Regarding Prof/Mr Smith

ugh… my town read on Prof is slowly diminishing because of that pointless spat. I could see some sort of point behind a fakeclaim but that? No way. Prof/Ellie, could you elaborate more on your scum reads?

Mr Smith is… meh. It's frustrating because he doesn't even answer the questions I direct at him and he's lately he's been spending his time posting fluff.

===========================================================================

This post makes no sense at all. Saying you might replace after giving everyone a choice of when you'll make your case? This doesn't make sense because at the same time you're saying you think the deadline should be extended because of the amount of replacements. It'd make way more sense for you to ask that if you planned on continuing the game and posting your case however since you didn't, then it just looks like your stalling for time.

Case/Claim Now.

The bv311 wagon has a lot of our town reads on it, and even though Bowser is probably a better lynch, it also seems a likely counterwagon to a bv3scum wagon.

Elaborate on what you mean by the counterwagon comment please. Why would Bowser be a better lynch if you think bv is scum?

@Pineapple

There's almost no mention of Bowser in your Iso, care to explain?

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom

I gotta stop forgetting that...

[TomAndJerry]

That was a cruel joke you played their White Spy. I was like, "Seriously? Out of game info passing?" and I was all frustrated while I read until you said that it was a joke lol

Meanie

~Jerry(I'm Jerry right?)

[TomAndJerry]

I'll be V/LA until the 4th

, however I have a bit of free time tomorrow so I should be able to get a good post or two done. After that I should be back to posting regularly on the fourth.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

#248 (Mr Smith): The explanation he gives about IceCream outing themselves contradicts his earlier behavior regarding this topic. Good to know he doesn't care about reading the thread and answering questions.

#268 (Faranor): Were your latest posts up till now you "getting your shit together" or have you neglected to do that?

#318 (IceCream): Yeah um. Just no. You're using your partner's excuse as a get out of doing anything ticket.

#321 (Chimaira): What's the purpose of this fluff post? I'm pretty sure this isn't anything new to any of us here.

#337 (Chimaira): I'm slightly confused, are you trying to reprimand Smith for saying the first few pages of this game are important or give him a theory lesson?

#339 (Mr Smith): The line about the bv wagon is weird along with the counterwagon comment. The whole thing kinda contradicts itself.

#340: Did I mention here that Pineapple has said nothing Bowser? Yeah? Let's see here, Pineapple has explained that and his partner discuss things in their qt which in isn't bad. But, I can't believe they've neglected to mention Bowser at all considering he's one of the top candidates for scum.

+Bowser/Pineapple

#342 (IceCream): Yeah, let's stop answering for other people, k thnx. Actually why are you doing this?

#347 (Pineapple): Such as a scummy post. What's more is the catch-22 scenario you've got there isn't necessarily true IMO. Then you stretch the whole entire scenario to make it look like you're a poor defenseless victim. Then you snip in a bit of WIFOM PLUS you ignored something I directed towards you which I consider pretty important. I really dislike how you attack bv for active lurking but not Bowser.

#357 (Professor Paradox): Wait what? Did you ever announce your one game day V/LA?

Conclusion

: I smell a Bowser/Pineapple pair brewing. Pineapple neglecting the whole Bowser scenario is just freaked weird. Mr Smith and IceCream are creeping up there too, would be nice if Mr Smith could answer something for once instead of spending his time complaining about how the game is run.

Mod: Will we know by you if someone is replaced?

Gonna let me partner decide on the vote for now, I prefer a Bowser lynch > Pineapple if Bowser has not replaced out yet. But both are fine.

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom

.........

[TomAndJerry]

@Chim/Troll

First point conceded. I could have sworn that way way after L-1 was reached.

On the second point I'd prefer a straight answer, which was it? It looked like me that you were dismissing the first few pages as valuable scum hunting material when I don't think that's true. Actually, how do you feel how valuable the first few pages in this game are?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Tom: 248 - Show me what it contradicts. 339 - The wagon was good, even if I felt it was less likely to hit scum than a Bowser lynch was. The lynch was actually pretty damn good too, given a2rudeboy's track record.

Mhm… first two are you trying to cast suspicion on him for it while the third is you saying you don't think it's scummy. Am I misunderstanding something?

I can also tell you why accidentaly revealing your real name is slightly protown,

but scum would abuse that, wouldn't they?

They could "slip up" on purpose and then take fake townie points for it, right? That's why I'm not telling.

….

You are trying to nitpick a statement apart. A statement that you don't understand.

I was very clear that I would consider accidentaly outing your name to be a slight towntell. However, since it is such a minor tell, scum wouldn't abuse it,

so I have no idea where you get that we think Icecream is scum because they outed themselves. You are turning my point around, and I don't know why.

TomAndJerry, you're presenting me with a false dichotomy here. As I said in my answer I wasn't particularly trying to reprimand Mr Smith or give him a lesson about theory. I was trying to respond to a comment that he made to me. Do you think that I'm trying to reprimand you or give you a lesson in theory now? I'm not and I think it would be silly to assume that those were my only options when responding to players in games of mafia in general.

Hardly, those were the only options I saw. Ok, you're saying you commented in general but that's incredibly vague. I don't think you personally are trying to reprimand/give me a theory lesson but that's irrelevant now. If this is a "general comment" then I take it that it's just fluff.

Am I still missing something?

Um…. what? My other head posted a case against bowser. Since we occupy the same playerslot, that is effectively the same thing as me writing a case on him.

That's not true at all, that'd be like saying a hydra is inconsistent because the two players have a contrasting posting style. The only partly true thing is towards scummy actions contributing towards the slot.

Because I understood what Crab was trying to say and someone else didn't?

But the quote/situation had nothing to do with Crab? Where'd Crab come from in all this?

@Tom: We got our shit together when Faraday came back from V/LA. I thought it was going to be amazing but since we're both gut players who rarely back up their suspicions with anything concrete it's really hard to get a discussion going. Basically we now know where the other stands on every player.

Huh. Originally I thought you meant you'd be posting more content. Has anything actually changed though regarding your reads after "you got your shit together" because I see no evidence of that.

Thanks for the support. I agree that we haven't done anything all that scummy other than lurking. And yes thank you, RL has been a problem. Realizing that we're not scum doesn't make you town, though. Looks more like you're a scum player trying to get a member of the town on your side.

Have you read the whole thread? Why is this particular instance worse than the town reads other people have given in the game?

first, what's so wrong with not mentioning Bowser very much in my posts? he hasn't posted much of anything this game, and just cause you think he's one of the top suspects doesn't mean i do. at worst he was active lurking like bv311, but i also find it quite likely that RL has been a problem for them which would explain their lack of posting.

It's weird. When I say he's one of the biggest suspects I mean in this game in general. He's one of the most controversial players here so it makes no sense for you to neglect them unless you weren't scum hunting.

as for not pushing PP harder...it's a bit hard to do that when almost everyone is giving him a free pass for his actions.

What? I don't understand why you wouldn't do all you could to get someone you think is scum lynched. Not everyone is giving him a pass either.

Would be cool to hear more from Crab/Prof.

~Tom

Damn it >.>

[TomAndJerry]

Responding to prod, will read up later

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Hey, Hydra Mafia!

I'm reading the thread.

[TomAndJerry]

I've been up to page 3 and realized that this is quite complicated. I'm going to bed instead. No hurry for a catch-up post, yes?
And that last post above^^ was me.

-Charlie

[TomAndJerry]

Should be able to catch up either today or tomorrow. I hope to discuss with my new partner and help him get caught up with the game.

Mod: Could we have a 1 day extension for the replacements to get caught up?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Charlie posting. So I would usually provided a page by page analysis when I replace in, and that usually takes a lot of time. This time, I'd like to try something a little bit different. I'll read quickly the early part of the game, but read all of the current part of the game.

I like the questions posed by my partner early on, and the responses that it got. I think its fair for me to answer those questions as well:

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

1. Lateralus22 + Charlie (I replaced in page 19)
2. Both
3. In those players whom I've played with before, yes
4. -Invalid question- (Not in Random Voting Stage anymore)
5. +8GMT, will try to post as when required
6. Seeming to like VT much these days, mainly due to past screwing up as other roles

So I'm liking Crab Canon at page 4, he seems to know what's going on and is hilarious. Arguments with Mr. Smith seems a bit dry.
Bowser seems to be getting a lot of heat for... I dunno what actually. Not really liking Mr. Smith's method of questioning, it seems forced. Oh Parama... I remember him. No wonder I have that funny feeling in my bones when I read his posts.

I'm liking Crab Canon more and more. Town read at page 5. Jump ahead, getting lurker vibes from MasterSpy. Not impressed with Bowser replies/defence. I see Tiger Woods, tiger shark, a plant that's probably tiger something and a fuzzy Furry. FourTigers has good content. Sad that he's NKed before I got here, I'd like to play mafia with him.

Chimaira is late but I like the his opening post. Vote sucks though. Professor Paradox isn't impressive anyone.

Half time early game analysis:

MasterSpy --> lurked
Professor Paradox --> just no
Bowser --> just no
Faranor --> ?
Mr. Smith --> ?
IceCream --> ?
Pineapple --> ?
Chimaira --> yes
Crab Canon --> definitely yes

(This is like a Win/Fail system, I hope this isn't confusing)

Some truth in page 8 by Faranor, I like that... Not liking Mr. Smith's content much. MasterSpy's catch up looking good (problem is, coming from lurker bad, any content looks good argh) Content from Chimera is disgraceful here (initially liked, now dislike)

Lol in page 9! <not explaining why its funny; that'd be insulting> Crab Canon should be sheeped at this point. First case of schizo felt with a "in your face" manner when reading MasterSpy. Conclusion: Null. Pineapple vote seems good.

I'd like to read Page 10 onwards in detail. I'd like to keep things neat by signing the end of my post using Jerry's name. Post separation!

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Hello there Mr. Smith! I can't bear to lynch anyone who posts pineapple ice cream. Or maybe its because I'm no up to date yet.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

@Mod: Your last votecount lists only 8 out of 10 people, I was confused!

And I'm very sleepy! Goodnight, I'll resume the detailed read and shall be done before the deadline (hopefully!)

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

#398 (Chimaira): Alright, I just figured you did it for tactical reasons instead of just being sociable, guess I was wrong.

#403 (Mr Smith): You know, you're not exactly a very clear writer. You're ignoring the bolded parts of I pointed out. The bolded in #1 is the exact opposite of what you're saying and #2 is also the exact opposite. Those don't fit with #3.

#409 (Professor Paradox):Yo… we've kinda been waiting the whole game for something, Elli. Did you get your reread done?

#414 (Bowser): Grasping at straws, I would hardly call the explanation scummy.

#416 (Pineapple):

lastly, i apologize for the lack of scumhunting in this post. when my new head catches up and we go over our thoughts some we'll get some in.

Not satisfied at all with Pineapple's explanation for not scum hunting, It's just an excuse.

#423 (IceCream): Lol OMGUS. The explanations he gives later are pretty awful.

#432 (Bowser): I'm actually glad that he went ahead and did a read of Pineapple as he was the most important player at that moment. I don't like though that he hasn't really given any comprehensive reads on anyone else. The whole asking someone to claim at L-1 just because they're at L-1 is just bad. It's awful to ask such requests just for the sake of asking them.

#447 (Crab Cannon): IceCream NEEDS to respond to this before the phase ends.

#451 (Master Spy): Not seeing a case against Prof except that he hasn't done much. The whole liking meta point doesn't seem scummy to me.

#469 (Crab Cannon): The principle of a town alliance seems a bit off to me, the purpose of this is town unity correct? Also why was Bowser not included in either side?

This phase feels weird, kinda stalled out yet decided at the same time. Could I have each slot's top two scum suspects? (Updated picks when my partner catches up)

1. Pineapple
2. IceCream

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom,

goddamnit

[TomAndJerry]

Could I have each slot's top two scum suspects?

[TomAndJerry]

Page 10: #234 is Town-posting. It is sassy, but Town. Zorblag enters the game looking like his usual self (IC-ish, from past experience) as part of the Chimaira hydra. Mental note to self to use past experience to read him. Towards the end of the page we have discussion about maintaining anonymity of the hydra's true accounts. I've seen this problem before and it usually resolves itself. I don't think its particularly helpful except in rare cases, so moving on...
Mr. Smith's reaction rubs me the wrong way (probably tone-wise)

Page 11: Lol, I see some amount of mod-WIFOM in MasterSpy's #225, questionable content riddled with emotional responses. Mafia cracking under pressure, me thinks. Looking further into the Crab Canon hydra: #265 shows that both heads are behaving in a pro-town manner. Not really feeling much content from Faranor.

Page 12: This page is a joke, I kid you not. Read it for some laughs.

Page 13: Why is Zorblag (Chimera) doing all those unofficial votecounts? I don't know if it helps but then I wasn't around to feel its effect. From an outside point of view, I find it disturbing and think that's mafia-ish behaviour. IceCream seems reasonable with his style of posting: saying Bowser is overly scummy is okay, saying he's behaving anti-town is better. MasterSpy's #308 looks better, but seeing how I've pegged him as scummy since the start...he can only get better, right? This is a problem; reading him is difficult. I'd say not good enough. Still scummy. Okay, if I have to commit to a read I'd say: Chimera and MasterSpy are half town and half scum.

Page 14: Here's some expalination: I find the Sotty half of Chimera protown for content which generate discussion, I find the Zorblag half antitown for the things he posts, based off past experience.
Now we have shed some light on why hydras are lazy and inactive. Its not because they're big and heavy, its because responsibility is split and this is prime fertilizer for the plant called inactivity.
Bowser and Faranor seem lacking, to some degree Pineapple as well.

Page 15: There's the bv311 lynch. MasterSpy's joke causes confusion; not a great move, period. Zorblag part of the Chimera is making me feel very edgy, #364 has content, but he's behaving passively. Behavior isn't consistent. And I kinda like content from Tom (no I'm not being bias just because I'm his new partner, you have to take my word for it).
Looking at Chimaira as a whole, Sotty's so-called towness outweights my behavioural read on Zorblag and thus I'd peg the hydra as Town.

Intermission for Player Analysis (Win/Fail system)

Mr. Smith --> scummy
Bowser --> active lurker
Professor Paradox --> ?
Pineapple --> ?
Faranor --> lurker
IceCream --> ?
MasterSpy --> recently replaced, providing content
Chimaira --> Town because of Sotty's content
Crab Canon --> Most posts are protown

It isn't easy reading hydras. Scumhunting by process of elimination changes due to split reads. I'd like to reflect back on the game when this is all over to see how accurate my reads are/were.

Page 16: Things get heated up a bit here. Bowser's defense at #390 looks pretty okay, actually. Getting more content from Faranor, so he's not as lurkish as I'd thought before.

Page 17: Sotty's point on Pineapple in the first post makes sense. Mr. Smith has posted some unimpressive fluff. Bowser puts Pineapple at L-1. Makes me question the possibility of a Bowser + Pineapple scumteam: unlikely bus. So one of them is likely Town and the other Mafia

Page 18: I don't get why MasterSpy chooses to vote Prof. Paradox, it seems like a distraction. I may be missing something, if I am do tell me: #431 Aah, juicy argument at the bottom of the page...

Page 19:...but there is no counter-argument by Bowser here. Oh well. MasterSpy appears to be putting much effort to scumhunting, it look genuine to me. Aah, Zorblag's #452 is made with more conviction. This is like and think fits more of his Town play, based on experience (not meta, that's different. I don't like meta). I enter the game here.

Player Reevaluation (From most scummy to least)

Bowser --> If not him, then Pineapple's Mafia
Pineapple --> If not him, then Bowser's Mafia
Mr. Smith --> Not town
Professor Paradox --> Slightly scummy for earlier sheenanigans
Faranor --> Null
IceCream --> Null
MasterSpy --> Progressively townier
Chimaira --> Town enough
Crab Canon --> Town

We as a hydra are trying to post using the "combined" method. This catch-up post should be the last one individually signed 'Jerry' (and 'Tom' too). Subsequent posts made by us should be signed 'Tom & Jerry'.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Why is it you haven't voted today? Asking for top two scum suspects reeks of you looking for an easy place to stick your vote (AKA you not scum hunting). You have only voted for Bowser all game and that vote came well into day one. Why are you trying so hard to fly under the radar?

Beginning of the day IIRC I was inactive/VLA or something in between so I figured my partner would vote so he'd actually do something. We all know how well that worked out. Was pretty inactive mid/end I just didn't get around to it as I couldn't give my full attention and burst in my usual active direct engagements.

My last post was essentially a vote as I named my top suspect, but hey this time around I got a partner who posts in the game so I figured I'd wait around until then. How am I exactly flying under the radar, you know voting isn't the only scum hunting method >.>

Jerry says he's cool with a vote Pineapple now so... (Hopefully this is my last single post)

Vote: Pineapple

Mod: Is the deadline going to be extended?

Yo Mod, could you delete the post above? >.>

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Could you get your individual thoughts out?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Surely you have more than that no? How do you feel about the votes against your slot and the people who are contributing? IIRC your partner has said he has discussed the game with his previous hydra head, what sort of discussion went on there?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed.

When will this process be complete?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Mostly interested about your view on Mr Smith. Elli expressed some interest in him recently, did he mention anything in the qt? Was that completely for kicks and giggles or was it a honest read?

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Blargh, can't sleep. I really need some goddamn sleep.

Doing some rereading and this stuck out to me, I think Master Spy said this the first time around but I can't seem to find the quote, whatever.

(Elli)Along with the last which was basically almost repeated in the lynch by bv

Vote: IceCream

Hope my partner's ok, blargh. Timezones suck.

Post #485: So many things wrong here. See the Caps lock? He's making his case based off goddamn fucking meta that isn't even reliable, I speak from personal experience. He doesn't bother to show the game(s) in question, and when you don't do that when it's the fucking crux of your case that shows a serious lack of commitment.

Back to caps or whatever, this is a very selective piece of shit. Maybe around 1/3ish people look pretty pro town. I think his whole meta point is something he's claiming as a general scum thing to because he's spent some of his time explaining it in this certain game. My high to low activity was something I saw un my own play so I was wondering why he didn't mention that about me, or even attack others as aggressively for this.

The comment about Smith feels really bad. Srsly, let's look at the vote again.

But that wagon isn't taking of anyway, and you are right. I also don't like how crabby is avoiding all this. unvote vote Crab

Is this brilliant piece of false reasoning better than his Bowser Vote? (No…) The thing is, even in general Smith didn't advocate a Crab lynch very hard so I'm wondering where this leap of logic is coming from. The line is begging Smith to put his vote back on Crab.

Earlier on IIRC 1 of two major things was the level of content. Rereading over, they're almost essentially the same. IceCream had a decentish attack on Bowser, but then did nothing rest of the game. One head uses the other's as a get out of doing anything ticket. The OMGUS flailing is parallel to that of Pineapple setting up a Cactch-22 scenario. After this read, I'm feeling more confident.

"Goes off to qt to convince Jerry that IceCream is totally scummier"

Woo, 2 Am on a fucking school night.

~Very Tired Tom

[TomAndJerry]

The quote btw is talking more about how Ice is wrong about how Strong Smith's vote was, felt that was unclear.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Vote; Pineapple

mhm. Claim Asap.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Tom and I have talked this over and our vote stays on Pineapple. As I said earlier, my read on IceCream is null, on the same level of read as Faranor.

Hey Charlie! I'm worried about you only mentioning me once in your #484, and then putting me in "scummy" and "not town", the latter of which I find to be the most solid stance one can take besides "confirmed scum." What between the first list of reads and the second list of reads made you take this more solid stance? Why aren't you voting me, then? You feel one of Bowser and Pineapple is scum, but if I'm a more definite read, why not vote me? Can't back it up? That really rubs me the wrong way, y'know, and I know you're one to back up "cases" with lots of evidence. (Guess which head is posting this to win absolutely nothing but satisfaction in your reading abilities!)

I go by process of elimination. This means that when I get a town read, the ones who are left are likely Mafia. Voting is done as a one i.e. both heads of the hydra should agree on the vote. You're Parama.

Page 11: Lol, I see some amount of mod-WIFOM in MasterSpy's #225, questionable content riddled with emotional responses. Mafia cracking under pressure, me thinks.

Really? You’ll have to seriously back all these statements up because I find it compelling.

What specifically is Mod WIFOM? What is questionable content and what do you see as emotional responses? How would you characterize it as ‘cracking under pressure’ when not a single vote was resting on the slot at that juncture.

I’m interested in seeing your support your assertions Charlie.

Whoops, the post in question is #255 not #225. In that post you've posted some opinions to the mod to do more votecounts. Problem is, I see it at an attempt to look helpful without actually being of much help. Same goes for my opinion of Zorblag and his "unofficial votecounts". And the latest thing is Professor Paradox is also doing it, wth. I don't believe this is something a Town-aligned player would do. This is questionable content. That rant in the post - a rant in itself is emotional. Based on what I know, Mafia tend to post emotionally more often and that set some alarm bells ringing in my head. Votes do not need to be cast to indicate pressure.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Guys, Massclaim. Now. If you personally don't want to then say so (lol). Other than that no discussion. I'd prefer IceCream go first.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Actually, scratch that that last bit. It seems I misread the thread. (Note: That's 4 votes atm, I believe this is L-1 correct?)

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

Claim: VT

Next is Prof

[TomAndJerry]

That was Tom btw....

[TomAndJerry]

So me and Lat were discussing things over in our QT, it was a slow process as we couldn't sync up to properly exchange views, but at least its done now.

We have a truly mixed read on Chimaira at the moment. Myself, I think Troll is scummy, partially based on past experience with him and Sotty7, protown. Tom thinks the opposite is true. To be fair to one another, we're not touching this player slot unless one of us convinces the other (else we end up being a schizophrenic).

I'm not very sure about Mr. Smith at this point, Tom seems to think him a bit odd.

I have null reads on both IceCream and Faranor, Tom has a scum read on IceCream and a light town read on Faranor.

Which leaves us at Bowser and Professor Paradox. Bowser is my top pick for scum, Professor Paradox is also high on the list. We seem to agree on Bowser being suspicious, but if left alone my partner would totally go for IceCream. Tom thinks Professor Paradox is starting to look scummy.

-----------

About the massclaim: I personally find it suspicious that Town would have both a watcher and tracker, I would question the balance issues that could arise.

And surprise surprise, Bowser and Professor Paradox are both people we'd vote for. I think one of them is lying. Most probably they're not scum together.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Mod : could you please not prod TomandJerry

I have a nagging itch that Mr. Smith is playing around with shenanigans for his "I'm vigging Bowser" statement followed by his claim of VT.

Lat hasn't been around for a bit, I'm waiting on him to discuss where our vote should go.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Vote: Professor Paradox

Yeah, this is the right play.

~Tom

[TomAndJerry]

For what it's worth, I never wanted you to die.

Smith, you're wrong by the way.