Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[MasterSpy]

/confirm

My other head is doing the avatar. One of us will have a larger post up soon.

~ White Spy

[MasterSpy]

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

1. MasterSpy – composed of the Black Spy and White Spy.
2. Outright adherence to any sort of hardline policy eventually gets Town killed. I support neither on a strict basis but agree that Town has limited reasons to realistically either Lie or Lurk.
3. I believe meta is marginally useful at best. I absolutely put ZERO stock in Town meta as it can easily be manipulated. Scum meta is only useful so far as it is consistently applicable and I find those circumstances few and far between.
4. I have a number of suspicions but I would place Pineapple at the head of my list.
5. EDT. This head expects to post generally often during the week.
6. No such thing. I prefer unique roles as opposed to cookie cutter or boilerplate standard options. My favorite role ever? It was at another site in a very customized game. -

Paparazzi – Each night I could take a picture of a Player for my blackmail files. At any time I could trade in a successfully taken blackmail picture to control said player’s vote for the rest of the Day. If I was ever nightkilled my photos would be made public record and any Mafia players would be publicly disclosed by the Mod the following Day. Games there usually had 20+ players and lasted between 7 and 12 game days.

looks like OMGUS to me

Hey Head A – are you implying OMGUS is a scum-tell? Otherwise why even note it?

Vote: Mr. Smith Only scum have a reason to hide their heads. Anyone else want to back up Mr. Scum Smith?

Way back in the Pre-Game shenanigans I found this gem. Having hashed this out a little with my other head I think this exactly the opposite of the facts.

Scum will be sharing their identities with each other so they already know a number of the Hydras. It is in their best interests to push for ‘full’ disclosure, if only to hone in on the players they deem ‘most dangerous’ in the field.

Meta reasons do apply. On what grounds do you have to say that they don't? For instance, if a hydra contains a known VI and begins to act highly irrationally, but the town as a whole does not know about the VIs presence, that is more likely to lead to a mislynch that could have easily been avoided with a little meta.

Additionally, the converse of your reason, that scum will target the experienced players, is that having the experienced players out in the open allows any protective roles to operate more efficiently. Same for any other power role really.

The first argument is theoretical but not really applicable here. Review the full player list in the sign-up post – there is only one player who could be categorized as a VI and I think that’s a stretch.

The second argument is also not really applicable. Experienced players are not guaranteed to be Town. Additionally, once again, the playerlist looks sufficiently deep that looking for Docs / other defenders to aim for Experienced players is pointless. Solid Town play in thread should determine potential Doc protections, not join date.

Also I love Crab’s not so subtle attempt at 42 to point out Hydras as lurkers despite not every account being activated. Noted for the record.

PREVIEW EDIT: This isn't Day 1 yet. Stop acting like it is, please.

Information exchanged in the thread is useful in potentially determining a Hydra’s alignment, regardless of whether Day 1 is officially started or not. This is essentially the same argument that states that nothing can possibly be learned from RVS / RQS.

What? He said he's scum? Lynch him! What, you said all those words, don't act like I didn't quote you right. You're just mad because I caught you.

Horrible argument here. Icecream quoted a specific sentence from your post. You cut and pasted words that were not linked in that manner from their post. His is responding to a specific comment. Yours is plain quote tampering.

If who someone is has a direct effect on how you view them, isnt a massnameclaim best to start the game as it would prevent going through motions only to have the claim change your idea?

Whoa … back up the train right here. Town play is about consistency. If you are stating right here that what behavior you find scummy from a Hydra is going to be dependant on knowledge of the heads then I find that bad policy and scummy.

If something is scum behavior it is scum behavior, regardless of who it comes from. The Hydra element removes the need to give players any sort of pass based on ‘scummy playstyle’ concerns.

My point is that nameclaim is good. If you disagree, you should never support a nameclaim, in any situation, L-1 or not. Doing that brings in the meta that you guys seem to be so against bringing into this game. Nameclaim should not change anything late in a wagon that is not brought into effect early in the wagon. If you believe it will, you should nameclaim right now, since it will just save us a week of "X is scum" only to supposedly be all "oh wait meta nevermind" at the end.

Nameclaim now or never, or be outed by me once I figured out all of who the heads are, 5 including me IDed, 90% sure I know a 6th.

I agree with the notion that name-claiming at L-1 is inconsistent with a stance on disagreeing with nameclaiming now.

The threatening tactics, on the other hand, are pointless. What scum-hunting motive do you have in this statement? Unless you can prove that said Hydra heads have a history of playing Alts because of strong scum meta you aren’t bringing anything to the table.

~ The Black Spy, who will actually add the avatar to the account once he gets access to his own computer on Monday where it is stored.

I need to talk things over with my other head as to where our vote might go.

[MasterSpy]

A wild Avatar appears ….

Interesting seeing as you haven't played as a Mason before, why are you lying?

So you have absolute knowledge of all game Lat may have played that were not here at MS?

And Tom, since you posted the list of question why don’t you get around to answering them yourself.

Also I just figured out who one head of masterspy is, its someone I have town meta on. Yay me.

Why don’t you guess – I will not confirm or deny but I’m almost positive you are dead wrong.

any particular reasons why?

Yes indeed. Nice of you to stop lurking when the first mention of your name pops up in the suspicions column.

1. Your account was activated before the lockdown by bv310 so I know you have had a chance to comment on the goings on. Yet your ISO is chock full of fluff and responding to the list Furry generated.
2. Your reasoning for lynching bv311 as stated in the questionaire is just downright bad.

Your reaction doesn’t make me think I’m off base. That said White Spy and I are in discussions about who we really think are scum. Additionally the lack of significant input from several players (Chimaira, Faranor) has slowed the concensus forming on our end.

Mr. Smith and Crab Canon

– you can stop your little Alpha pissing contest anytime and get to actually looking for scum.

~ The Black Spy

[MasterSpy]

The White Spy is slacking and needs to make his thoughts know in thread …

Will it help you to read the thread? They still quoted us out of context.

Regardless of whether you were quoted out of context or not the quote tampering you did to ‘prove your point’ isn’t a valid parallel. You should have simply presented the quote to show how it was taken out of context.

Also, repeating: SOTTY7. HI. ARE YOU SCUM?
(you know we'll find out sooner or later in which hydra you are anyway.)

I know you probably have some personal tell related to Sotty that is driving this but do you really expect any answer other than ‘No’?

This is really really stupid.

No, it’s not. It is a quite logical thought process. Care to throw in a ‘NO U’ while you are at it if you are making pointless rhetorical statements?

And this is contradictory to it - cancels out the alleged strong scum motive for finding out "dangerous players".

BZTTT … incorrect. From a scum perspective they know their own members and thus know what players out there are most likely to be dangerous to them. As an example – Sotty was able to more or less nail Zachrulez in /invitiational 8 simply because she knew his playstyle so well. Scum are going to know those players who can read them as scum the best, if those players exist in the game. So going for a full name-claim lays the information out there.

A Town protective role, on the other hand, has no inside knowledge. God forbid if they choose to defend a ‘Vet’ Hydra based on being the heads being vets as opposed to Town play and that Hydra is Mafia.

you misunderstand. we do need to scum hunt.

Then why are you instead playing a very passive, reactionary game?

i never said that i'm not scum hunting.

You don’t have to say you aren’t – your ISO reveals that you aren’t.

WhiteSpy has said he’s working on a case on someone. I’ve held off making a vote so far but Pineapple has done nothing to change my initial gut scum read and I dislike having an inactive vote once serious play gets rolling.

VOTE: Pineapple

My scumdar is pinging. Why is him asking the questions scummy?

Your scumdar is in need of maintenance. The issue is not the questions. The issue is that in the post the questions were asked T&J did not answer them. It leads to two options –

1. If the questions are indeed useful for providing solid game information why did T&J not answer them when originally asked, or even later?
2. If the questions aren’t useful why even ask them? That would be a pure fluffing post then.

In either case I don’t see a strong Town motivation in T&J’s play there.

@Tom or Jerry

- At least one of you needs to answer your own questions.

T&J’s reveal at 154 I think is very interesting –

Lat has revealed that Professor Paradox fake-claimed one of it’s heads for lulz. This was a direct attempt to provide false information to Town in a way that would possibly interfere with Meta efforts by some players who favor meta. This has a similar effect to Hydra’s withholding who their heads are.

Logically Town players who were strongly for outing of heads should see PP’s actions as equally Anti-Town / Scummy.

Those players who have expressed that Mass Name Claiming is the way to go and those not doing so are Anti-Town / Scummy -

CrabCanon, FourTigers, Faranor

What was those Hydra’s reaction to the revelation that PP fake-claimed a Name?

FourTigers – reaction was to defend self from T&J’s attack and question why a Fakenameclaim is a Scumtell.

Faranor – Similar reaction to FourTigers – wonders why fakenameclaiming is a scum-tell.

CrabCanon – Says not much, other than to perhaps dismiss it as worthy of conversation since it was Elli doing his regular pointless play.

I’m not seeing consistency in any of these opinions. Will have to look more closely.

[MasterSpy]

Why is it so important for me to answer my questions?

I thought it was fairly obvious now that it was a part of my trap to lull Prof into reacting.

A combo of being lazy and not thinking it was that important at the time was a part of not answering the questions.

Your list of questions was part of an obvious trap to get Prof. Paradox to react? Color me confused – why didn’t you specifically address PP on the issue then as opposed to making it a general topic. I saw the list as a way to gather information that might be Town useful from everybody.

1. This is shit and you know it, I figured it was standard procedure to ask questions and not answer them until the end because it can influence people's responses. Later it wasn't even that important because I just went right on ahead with the nameclaim, but hey if you wish I shall answer them.

2. I take it you missed the whole entire part where I called Prof out for lying?

1. The standard procedure about not answering questions as to not ‘influence’ answers is bullshit. There is nothing in that question set, if it was intended to gather information and not as part of some ‘Cunning Tarp’, that necessitated you withholding your information til after everyone answered.

2. No, I saw that. It was far from clear to me that the whole point of the questions was your ‘Cunning Tarp’.

Cool.

Can you explain how calling them out for lying AND then outing them with a nameclaim fits the misinformation persona?

Can you explain how those observations at the end are inconsistent?

Now it’s my turn to say – I guess you missed the point of the statement that it was aimed at Professor Paradox misleading Town and not you.

Not sure if your second question is even relevant given that information.

This post wasn't about scumhunting, this post to make sure we know Pacman is ubertown. And I don't like it at all.

??????? How does it do that, it's more of a shit I'm screwed please forgive me type of post, not oh look guys im so pro town and scum hunting. He'd probably put a serious vote down if that's what he was going for.

Hey it would be even better if you asked the person who ACTUALLY SAID THAT as opposed to me. Just saying.

1) Scum have already probably figured out who everyone is based on slips at this point. They had much less of the player list to figure out from the start, so leveling the playing field is a good thing. More information for town is a good thing.

For your statement to be true (based on my own notes) scum have to be significantly in a group of 3 Hydras (Chim, bv311, T&J) that at this point are unknown. Unless of course you can tell from post styles who those players are.

But if you are implying you have everything vetted out feel free to post your conclusions. That would be in line with giving Town more information, correct?

This is false because scum would have just as much incentive to kill a townie playing hydra as they would a Vet hydra. Being old to MS does not mean you're scumhunting well automatically.

So are arguing against my theory that Docs should just protect the Hydras they feel are playing the most Pro-Town as opposed to based on name recognition? I’m confused because it looks like you are trying to assert the same thing as I am.

~ The Black Spy

[MasterSpy]

This the BlackSpy requesting a prod on the WhiteSpy. In all seriousness I’m tired of being the only face in the thread.

@MOD – Can I request more consistent Vote Counts please?

The nature of the Hydra game is going to make alternative scum-hunting measures (other than behavioral tells) important. I expect VC analysis to be one of these valuable tools. Without VCs at least once every 3 pages (at worst) you are crippling Town’s ability to use VC analysis effectively.

The reaction to Prof Paradox’s ‘fake-name gambit’ makes my blood boil. This is one of my biggest problems with the culture here on MS.

1. Prof Paradox (in Elli) makes a stupid fake-claim on a name. Regardless of the ‘reads’ expected to be drawn from it Elli’s other half clearly stated it was mainly for the lulz.
2. The fake-claim is expectedly unmasked.
3. Elli reveals he is the culprit.
4. Almost everyone basically waves it away as ‘Normal Elli and thus Null’

The fact of the matter is the fake-claim further derailed the thread from significant scum-hunting (and we already had a rocky start with the whole Name Your Heads debate that dominated the early pages). That’s very Anti-Town at best. And yet because Elli’s regularly plays in Anti-Town manner it is waved away. Had any of a number of other players in the game with a different playstyle (for example analytical) made the same move I guarantee the reaction would be much different. And that burns my ass. Because very Anti-Town move (with no positive Town upside) is bad regardless of who makes it.
[/rant off]

On the Issue of Town Reads

– I personally don’t see a huge upside to explicit Town reads but certainly don’t think they are inherently anti-Town or scummy. Chalk up my opinion to playstyle.

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.

We want to comment on who is scum and why. The fact that you need to be told this I find frustrating at all levels.

Except playing a "very passive, reactionary game" is part of my meta, too. But we'll try to scumhunt more from now on. —Apple

You can’t fall back to ‘its my meta’ when you are hiding your identity. Sorry, no can do. Also what is Pro-Town about being passive and reactionary?

No, it doesn't necessarily correlate. However, if you're town, you tend to agree more often with other town members...correct? Seems like if you're agreeing with the scumbags, then you're doing it wrong.

I find this a slight over-simplication. There are a good number of players in this game that can appear convincingly Pro-Town as scumbags. So agree with people’s logic might have some Town read application but should be used sparingly IMO.

I do think any protective roles should target hydras that are the most pro-town/likely to die. I thought the whole argument you're making though is that if we reveal our names the Vet hydras are going to get picked off, which is what I think is not really correct. Am I missing something or did I read something wrong?

That’s not exactly what I was trying to say there. I think scum are going to pick of Hyrdas they find most troublesome for whatever reason (Pro-Town play, PR tells, whatever). My point is that IF there are players on the scum side who know that players on the Town side have their ‘number’ when scum THEN going full disclosure only gives the scum even fuller information by which to make their decisions. As said previously I’m not a huge Meta believer so I think the potential Town gain is less than the potential Scum gain. Then again it really is rapidly becoming a moot point.

How can Bowser post somewhere else?

In other threads. Was that really that hard of a leap of logic for you to make?

Because if I did that I'd be announcing to him that I was for a matter of fact Lateralus instead of someone who just noticed something weird. If I said "Hey bro tell me your life story" and only asked him questions that would be less efficient and just weird.

No it would haven’t been any less efficient in terms of outing Prof’s fake name-claim.

You haven't actually told me whether you like the questions or not, do you? Even if they weren't my main focus I know that they're generally helpful and I can even bring them up later in the game if needed. How do you not get this?

Do I like the questions? They at least helped center the early game debate away from the whole Name Claim storm. I think the question about meta has long term benefits when assessing arguments down the line. I clearly get it. What I don’t get is you framed the questions as a “Clever Tarp” for Prof and that doesn’t make sense.

You have to know that there was no way for Prof to continue to fake-claim the second you called him out. If Elli had persisted all you would have to do is make a response post and ‘accidently’ post from Lat and he was toast.

It's what I've learned from playing in newbie games an I intend to ask questions and answer later in every future game I play.

An IC doing that sort of thing in a Newbie game is far different than general players doing it in other games. An IC has teaching reasons to operate in that manner. You do not outside of Newbie. So strict adherence to a mechanic you learned in Newbie is rather foolish, IMO.

~The BlackSpy

[MasterSpy]

While I appreciate wonderful lesson on Scum versus Town motivations by FourTigers at 261 I don’t really need the lesson. Thanks for that. I already know the difference between scummy and Anti-Town play.

But what's more interesting, what do YOU think about Professor Paradox?

I find Professor Paradox null leaning scummy. I don’t see any scum-hunting or play that I would characterize as Pro-Town. I would characterize the Hydra’s play as very similar to Pineapple’s and Bv311’s.

Funny how fourtigers should want to easy-vote bv over suspects/scumhunting though, what with a week left before deadline.

Its funny how you are active lurking and popping up when attacked but don’t even read the post right before yours.

The statement that FourTigers made started “I would vote bv without a second thought if needed at deadline” which makes your back-handed attempt to call him scum null and void.

I like Pineapple for scum still but bv311 looks to be a good scum vote also. Especially after 276.

Since I am essentially flying solo here I’ll

UNVOTE: Pineapple
VOTE: Bv311

You seem upset.
Why haven't you responded to this?

Why haven’t I responded? Let’s look at the post in question.

If you turn out to not be a newb, I find this statement scummy.
Yes, I think that not revealing your name is anti-town. That doesn't mean that I think it's scummy.
On that note, I can actually see where Smithy is coming from now, although I still don't agree that it's scummy.

Nothing in this posts asks me any sort of question. I’m not going to ask you to define why it is scummy when I find the point you are making of minor importance, IMO.

SHOW ME THE DERAILING.
Right.
THERE WAS NONE.

Every single post that addressed your BLATANTLY STUPID GAMBIT THAT SERVED NO PRO-TOWN PURPOSE is the sign of derailment.

Look, I can post in all-caps too. Come back when you can actually make a point that doesn’t amount to “LOOK I’M SHOUTING”.

~The Black(and apparently solo)Spy

[MasterSpy]

Why would you be ranting/annoyed about others not pursuing something you also apparently also saw as anti-town rather than explicitly scummy then?
What's your current read on TnJ?

I’m annoyed because of the inconsistency. Your Hydra began the game stating that not presenting identities of the Hydras immediately was scummy. The premise for this is that Town benefited from the information provide. Yet when Elli specifically went out of his way to lie about his indentity for the lulz your slot writes it off as ‘Elli being Elli’. If you are arguing that Elli specifically putting false information into the thread is not scummy because it would be eventually revealed why isn’t the same valid for those Hydra’s who didn’t immediately disclose their identity. Both circumstances are withholding information from Town. I’m big on consistency.

I have a Neutral read on T&J. I’m not particularly fond of the manner in which they chose to ‘reveal’ Prof Para as opposed to just directly challenging the Hydra. I think not answering his own questions, if he thought they would serve a long-term game purpose, was misguided and anti-town. Nothing directly scummy in his ISO but not much that strikes me as solidly Pro-Town either.

Since you are big on clarifying reads - What is your read on T&J?

So did you just say that you would look more closely at that stuff because you like typing? I ask because you're not following up on your promised follow-up.

Please point out what you are specifically referencing here because I have no idea what you are talking about. A quote would be nice to clarify your statement here.

@MOD – Am I getting a new partner?

[MasterSpy]

I'm afraid I have an important announcement to make.

The integrity of this game has been compromised. Faranor needs to be modkilled. Unfortunately, I have received 100% conclusive and trustworthy meta information implying that the slot is town.

....Okay, in all seriousness (note to bv310: IT WAS AN IN-JOKE THAT ONLY ONE PLAYER IN THE GAME WILL UNDERSTAND!

NO MODKILLS ARE NEEDED

!), I'm version 2.0 of the White Spy, replacing version 1.0. I've been reading the game a bit during the night and talked a bit with my other head (and have a few town reads and many more null unhelpful reads), but I'm L/A this week, so it might take a couple of days for me to get a more substantial post in. (The nice thing about being a hydra is that there's no rush for me to make a huge catch-up post immediately upon replacing in.

~The White Spy (three guesses who I am)

Don't do that to me. You nearly gave me a heart attack.

~bv

[MasterSpy]

@PP: It's probably safer if I don't explain the joke.

Actually....there's something about the lynch mobs that I might want to point out today, but it depends too much on the assumption that three players are town. Hang on. I'm waiting for my other head to give me feedback on if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

[MasterSpy]

Black Spy reporting in on Day 2 … hold on a minute …

Black Spy takes a live explosive and plants it in White Spy’s hat.

Well that should take care of the tom-foolery.

On to actual game items

–

White Spy Version 2.0 (New and Improved) are hashing out our combined thoughts in the QT right now. We’ll have some general thoughts on reads out soon. That said we will each be taking separate scum-hunting paths when necessary.

I need to read FourTiger’s ISO again before really delving into the Day. White Spy had a much more charitable read on FT than I did before today’s flip so I need to reassess where my head is add in regards to the Hydra.

I also definitely want to see what each person not on the bv311 wagon was saying in regards to it.

@Fara

– in 310 you made a pointed comment regarding me ‘not following up’ on promised content. I asked you to clarify what via quotation what I was not following up on. You never responded. Again I’d like to know the reason for your comment.

Have to talk with my other head tonight, but I personally think finding the scumz on the bv311 wagon is the best place to start, especially since the scum were dumb enough to kill a townie on it. PoE has it fairly narrowed down for me, but I need to discuss and look back through a FourTigers iso first.

I disagree that this is going to be the easiest route but I’m very curious about your analysis results.

More tomorrow when I have the time –

~ The Black Spy

[MasterSpy]

@Faranor – STOP IGNORING THE FOLLOWING QUESTION –

@Fara – in 310 you made a pointed comment regarding me ‘not following up’ on promised content. I asked you to clarify what via quotation what I was not following up on. You never responded. Again I’d like to know the reason for your comment.

Looking at the wagon from yesterday, I'll say that Masterspy and 1-2 of {IceCream, Pineapple} are scum on the bv wagon, and that 0-1 of {PP} was scum off the wagon.
Faraday seems to be of the opinion that Pineapple is obvscum though, and I think that Pineapple is scummy too (not as scummy as MS, buttttt), so I like our vote.

I can’t believe you actually posted this Nik.

You are suggesting that the lynch wagon had either 2 or 3 of the Scum on it despite the fact that they chose to kill on that wagon which would narrow down the pool. That is terribly stupid logic.

And you label the only possible person to be scum off the wagon as Prof Paradox? Who you soft defended in ISO 7 and mentioned in no other way Day 1?

I’m not buying you think this is credible at all.

I personally think the Pineapple wagon is good...though the popularity gives me a touch of pause. Obviously his hammer was terrible though, so I guess the scum probably would have considered the need to bus them last night.

Looking over FourTigers ISO there isn't a huge amount to comment on, which makes me wonder if the scum didn't go after him in an attempt to hit a PR. He didn't seem to fond of Pineapple or IceCream though, who would also be high on my scum list. More to come hopefully later today.

Get out of my head. Seriously I posted this on both issues in the MasterSpy QT.

Now on to discuss the Wagons –

Since we don’t have mod provided VC on a regular basis I’m forced to only use the end of day to discuss the wagons.

Players of unrevealed public alignment on the Wagon - Crab Canon, Chimaira, MasterSpy, Mr. Smith, IceCream, Pineapple

Players of unrevealed public alignment off the Wagon - T&J, Prof Paradox, Faranor, Bowser

The Scum choosing to shoot from on wagon can mean a few things –

1. Scum were so scared of FourTiger’s suspicions that they had to die.
2. More scum are off the wagon as opposed to on.
3. More scum are on the wagon but based on Pro-Town appearance don’t fear the possibility of PoE.

My thoughts so far say 2 or 3 are far more likely the case than 1. Especially given FourTigers hardly pushed either suspicion very strongly.

At this juncture I’ve had limited discussions with the White Spy about their thoughts on these premises.

As noted by Crab Canon IceCream and Pineapple were FourTiger’s biggest suspcions.

I’ve looked at the reasons those players off the wagon suggested about bv311 –

T&J and Bowser make no direct mentions of the bv311 slot. Prof Paradox only says that they like reading VI players. Faranor labels them Town in their ISO 1 for being idiots regarding the username / avatar issue. No further mention.

None of these are compelling interactions.

Once WhiteSpy has time to review my QT thoughts we will settle on a vote.

~ BlackSpy

[MasterSpy]

The White Spy has just returned from her V/LA, but is busy catching up with another game that she's totally neglected for a week. So I can't make a huge catch-up post yet. But I just had to pop in for a moment.

*takes stick of dynamite out of her hat and throws it into Black Spy's Cheerios*

I know this always draws heat from people for "trying to look protown," so I hope my other head will forgive me for doing this, but...no. Pineapple, DON'T claim. Ignore Bowser. (Out of curiosity, Bowser, did CSL or Untrod Tripod cast that vote?)

Luckily, CSL's vote is already on Pineapple, but can someone unvote Pineapple, please

so you can get town points for saying you didn't let him be speedhammered, at which point someone else will vote you for trying to get those town points

before he claims or some idiot hammers?

This kind of stupid premature claim-forcing from any player who's under suspicion is one of my biggest pet peeves. No claims until the majority of players decide we want to lynch Pineapple, someone is ready to hammer, and the deadline is

not

almost two weeks away. What would a claim from Pineapple change at this juncture?

~The White Spy

[MasterSpy]

First this is responding to Mass Prod. I am the first to admit that my energy for this game has been less than impressive.

General thoughts

– WhiteSpy and I are currently at a general impasse as to who we suspect the most. Those I have the most suspicion of WhiteSpy feels are Town. In general I think we are not going to get any significant Scum combined reads today.

That said I’ll have a vote for out slot down by the end of this post.

I guess I should start by weighing in on the #1 lynch candidate for today.

So you felt the need to weigh-in on the number 1 candidate of others as opposed to someone you felt was scum?

I find post 391 very self-serving - you weigh in on the popular lynch of the Day. You ISO them and surprise, surprise find them scummy.

Pineapple has been acting legitimately scummy. I'm allowed to want a claim. As are the other people on the wagon, which reminds me.
Pineapple is at L-1, meaning that half of the players in the game want that slot to swing. Sounds like a reasonable amount of suspicion to warrant a claim to me.

It’s great that you want a claim. That said claims aren’t made because you want someone to. Claims are made to prevent mislynches on Town PRs. And they are made when a player at L-1 has been threatened with being lynched by another player not on the wagon. Your reasonable suspicion is noted and all but really isn’t relevant to the situation.

You're doing a whole lot of telling and not a whole lot of showing. Your case doesn't get any better by virtue of repetition. Could it be because you're playing the angry card in hopes that people will just not argue with you? I'm growing concerned that maybe Pineapple isn't scum and Smith is, and is trying to be the angry townie so we're impressed with his seemingly prescient read on Pineapple. I've seen that tactic used by scum before.

I want to give Pineapple's new head some breathing room, so unvote Pineapple

So you went to the trouble of doing an extensive read on Pineapple that made you happy they were a good lynch. Then you call for a claim repeatedly. Now suddenly you are doubting that read? Yeah, I’m not really thrilled with this move towards a 180 from you.

I'm basing those reads on wagon position and prior suspicions only.

Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell.

[qutoe="Ice"]And VP Baltar is scum
Unvote.Vote:Crab Canon[/quote]

Why? And is Oj not scum? Why single out VP?

On to the our vote

–

Yesterday Pineapple was one of my top scum suspects. The lack of input and zero scum-hunting combined with the hammer was bad. That said today I’m beginning to doubt my read. Pineapple has made better contributions today than a number of other Hydra and the fact that no significant counter-wagon has yet to appear makes me think they are likely slacker Town players who make a nice easy target.

VOTE: Prof Paradox

I’m personally less than thrilled with Bowser’s play but PP had done nothing other than a stupid, pointless gambit all game. Elli certainly is known to lurk as scum, IMO. Also this is the closest to a joint read we have.

On other issues

–

Part of our impass is the disagreement between where to look for scum – on or off the bv311 wagon.

I am of the opinion (as stated before) that looking off the wagon is going to be more productive. WhiteSpy disagrees based on reads of those on the wagon.

~ The BlackSpy

[MasterSpy]

You know as well as I do that if I hadn't commented on the Pineapple case, I would have gotten shit for it. He was the popular lynch candidate, so rather than riding the bandwagon, I went back and read his play. I found it scummy. Would you have been happier if I had
a. tried to refute it
b. ignored it
c. tried to create another wagon?
d. just hopped on and said "WOOO. GO WAGON GOOOOOOOO!"
What, exactly, is the problem with finding a scummy player scummy? I notice you don't have a problem with my actual case, just the fact that I made it.

Doing something only because you will ‘get shit for it’ if you don’t shows a survival motivation in your actions.

I would have been happier if you had simply read the thread and made a case for who you thought was scummiest, not who was the most popular wagon. The way you approached it (finding the top wagon, constructing a ‘case’ that really had already been made, and then hammering for a claim) looks like you were just attempting to manage perception that you weren’t doing D.

The problem certainly isn’t with finding someone scummy. It’s with my view you aren’t really scum-hunting but faking it.

Again, I'm allowed to ask for a claim on an L-1 wagon. I felt that the wagon was full steam enough to warrant a claim. If Pineapple doesn't want to claim and wants to argue out of the wagon instead, why don't you let them do the arguing themselves?

You are allowed to do all sorts of useless things in thread. That doesn’t make them Pro-Town or useful for scum-hunting. Pointing out that your request wasn’t made under normal claiming standards on site and looks like role-fishing is something that should be done, regardless of who you were addressing.

But wait, didn't you just say that me doubting my read was scummy? Why is it ok for you do that and not me?

The fact that my read changed over the course of several weeks and your suddenly changed in, what, 3 days means that they are very different processes.

In other news, Pineapple is still a great lynch for today.

If nothing else, the flip will tell us something about the people who are opposing the wagon.

And it is interesting that the flip couldn’t possible tell us anything about the motivation of those pushing the wagon.

@Spy where have you seen Elli lurk as scum?

That’s my impression from past games I have seen Elli in. Given the commitment level to this game by everyone I’m not really thrilled to do heavy meta research given the scumtastic lack of anything Prof Paradox (which also includes pacman) has provided.

Prof Paradox’s continued lack of anything remotely resembling content should be plenty of reason to vote him. Get with it Hydras.

Not sure if I am flying solo again.

~The Black Spy

[MasterSpy]

Not sure if I am flying solo again.

*shuffles back into the thread sheepishly with head down*

To be honest, I've been using the lack of activity in this game as an excuse to procrastinate horribly. And also, I'm not really sure what I should be doing with myself right now. If I were on my own, I'd have written a huge catch-up post with my general impressions of every player in the game upon replacing in. But it's harder my other head already has an active presence in the thread and has committed to strong opinions. (It would utterly neutralize the pressure on someone to say, "Ha ha, ignore my partner's attack on you two posts ago, because I actually think you're totally town!" Instead I've been ISO'ing people and keeping (started making detailed notes on a couple of players in the QT, but haven't got around to everyone, yet). Today I'll try to poke at a few people, but I'm not sure if I should be making actual cases/defences.

But first, I'd just like to point out something that stood out to me on an ISO of Professor Paradox...

Ellibereth. Pacman. Can you just confirm that pacman is the one who doesn't like meta, and Elli is the one who likes meta and fakeclaimed Lateralus?

Because I've looked through your ISO, and there's something that doesn't make sense. I

assume

both of these posts are pacman (although the first sounds a bit like Elli):

WE'RE NOT REVEALING OUR IDENTITIES UNLESS OTHER HEAD THINKS OTHERWISE.

This head is a schizo at talking about meta. One head seems to love meta (I think...), while the other one (this one) doesn't like to use it as argument, as it might be used as excuse to pass off poor play as meta. That is annoying, and useless.

Next post:

Hi guys! Lateralus checking in.

3. Do you think meta will help in this game?

3. Yes.

1. pacman here (other head already reported).
<snip>
3. I dislike meta. It can be easily used to pass off easy scum play as town play. So, no.

So apparently, pacman hates meta. Meanwhile, Elli likes meta, and thinks it's helpful...and yet he's still faking his nameclaim.

Pacman's reaction to Lateralus's counterclaim:

pacman here.
<snip>
What can I say... my other idiotic head decided it would be fun to fakeclaim its head.
I just decided to follow through. I warned him, but...

Pacman, the head that hates meta and thinks it won't be of help this game, has. I

think

he was the person to post that he should. Yet he goes back on this for some reason.

But then

Ellibereth

, who said up above that META WOULD BE HELPFUL this game, refuses to claim:

Oh yeah, I know the whole nameclaim thing is strategically good blahblahblah but I don't feel like doing it. Most of the people here prob already know who I am anyway...

But then randomly claims anyway

solely

to deflect someone's suspicions of him:

The last line of one of you're earlier posts where you said you had no reads or something, I'll go find it.
What's wrong with calling 3 people town?
Have you ever played with me (Ellibereth) before?

Never mind that he then changes his story.

Conclusion:

1) Why is the head that says meta will be helpful the one that refuses to claim his head, and the head that dislikes meta and refused to claim the one who comes forward with his identity early on?

2) Why did the head who liked meta fakeclaim his name?

3) WTF? Seriously, even if you're scum, WTF? How can you manage to have that much cognitive dissonance? Is your QT three posts long? Are you just posting random diarrhea in the thread?

I dunno, maybe it's just that Elli and pacman have very similar posting styles (flippant short posts, overuse of capslock and anime smileys), but I keep getting paranoid that they're switching identities.

~The White Spy

[MasterSpy]

Fuck, three days to deadline? This weekend is a really bad time for me, because I'm working all day and have plans in the evenings. I have part of a big post saved at home that I fell in the middle of writing last night, but right now I'm stuck with a phone that's almost dead. I thought there was much more time left.

Bv310, I would also be in favour of a deadline extension. Preferably a week-long extension, but at least two or three days would be nice too, what with all the replacements and inactivity, getting a lynch. I think the game would benefit from giving all the new players time to get engaged.

Zorblag,

are you making fun of my stellar Fate = the cult leader case

, I'll be honest. Part of it is really that I've horribly neglected all my Mafia games lately, so I'm working off gut impressions, and not asking enough hard-hitting questions. But in general, I tend to be much more charitable than my other head. If you want an example of an area in which we don't agree...I'm of the opinion that Nikanor's post discussing his unproductive discussions with Faraday in the QT is a strong towntell that cancels out the slot's lurking, inability to explain the simplest opinions, and utter uselessness. Black Spy is of the opinion that I'm out if my freaking mind. I'm a bit of a special snowflake.

...Uh-oh. I was going to ask Zorblag questions about his most recent post, but my phone is at 2%. Maybe when I get home tonight.

~WS

[MasterSpy]

Since I wasn't feeling well this morning and stayed home from work, I spent today catching up.

Crab Canon, aside from the whole "It's statistically impossible for Troll to be town in the same game as me" paranoia, do you have any concrete reasons for thinking he's either town or scum? You must know quite a bit about his scum play (as well as Sotty's). So do you see anything from him that's inconsistent with it? Does he always completely blindside you, or do you know how to read him? Do you know what his town play looks like?

Also, you left Bowser out of your PoE list. I assume you'd put him in the lynch pool.

I'm posting this in several chunks for reasons that will become obvious shortly.

1) Professor Paradox

Professor Paradox here, checking in with a new hydra head: It is I, MacavityLock! (So, you'll probably be able to figure out what posts come from RAGECAPS ELLI and which come from me.)

Awesome! One confirmed scumbag down.

But in all seriousness, I was not a fan of your opening post. Usually, the standard response upon replacement into a game is either 1) a big catch-up post with general reads and comments on what you've missed or 2) a comment along the lines of "Hi, everyone, in the middle of catching up, UNVOTE: whoever I was voting, content coming soon." Your coming out with two unexplained reads like that and voting immediately without feedback from your other head looks very off.

What made you so confident in your vote right off the bat?

Pity that pacman isn't here to answer my questions, but I don't suppose you could give a heads-up to Ellibereth to explain the contradiction on meta stances, could you? Or did you get a sneak peek into the QT? Surely they've discussed who was posting what there.

Oh, and one last thing. What do you think of Bowser?

EBWOPreview (yes, I've been working on this a looooong time): PP ninja'd me while I was writing this. I was going to second Crab Canon's question as to where his reads were coming from. His reasons behind his vote...eh, could go either way (both in terms of PP's alignment and Pineapple Ice Cream's). Some of his points are a bit easy. It's hard to tell with reasons like "he misreps stuff in ISO Whatever" (without giving concrete examples). Since I've been focusing on the players off the bv311 wagon because that's where Black Spy is focused, I've neglected Pineapple Ice Cream.

I personally think that Pineapple's overthinking how the hammer would come across depending on the flip looked sincere, and was the kind of thing that looks scummy on paper but no scum would

actually

do. But Black Spy and I haven't discussed Pineapple yet.

[MasterSpy]

2) Bowser

When I'd first read the game, I was lukewarm on Bowser (he seemed like an easy target lurker, and CSL is always useless). But I'm starting to lean scum on him.

I have to leave now, so I don't have time for quotes to illustrate what I mean. Just a summary of points:

-I agree with most of what my partner said about Bowser's vote on Pineapple. It's not just that he coincidentally found the top lynch option scummy (I understand why someone would prioritize a reread of the game's top suspect); it's that he worried more about how it would look for him to ignore the top lynch option and defending his right to vote for the top suspect than giving his own independent thoughts or pushing his own cases.

-His insistence that he needs to see Pineapple's flip before he can make a single case grates at me. Bowser, just save time and answer this. Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips town? Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips scum?

-His reasons for wanting a claim are silly. Bowser, what would a claim from Pineapple change for you? Your defence for it appears to be, "Because I'm allowed to want one, since everyone suspects him." No, seriously. What would Pineapple claiming over a week before the deadline change? Are you just curious about his role?

-I agree with VP Baltar that Bowser's stance on Pineapple looks a bit contrived. So he finds him scummy, votes him and asks for a claim...and then backs down and says, "No, actually, you might be town, so I'm voting Smith."

But then, under the slightest pressure from Chimaira to vote more, he caves? If he's starting to doubt his scum read on Pineapple, why did he then revote, instead of pushing Mr. Smith? How did Chimaira change your mind?

-He originally calls me scummy for asking for an unvote or a delay in claiming. His interactions with Black Spy afterward seem slightly antagonistic. And yet Bowser never defended himself against my other head's recent accusations. Then out of the blue, he says he has a town read on MasterSpy.

==============================================
That said, there's just something I want to draw attention to and that I hinted at before. Here's the vote count from D1:

bv311

(L-0): Crab Canon, Chimaira,

FourTigers

,

MasterSpy

, Mr Smith, IceCream, Pineapple
Bowser(L-4): bv311, TomAndJerry, Professor Paradox
Pineapple (L-6): Faranor

Not Voting: Bowser

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Now here's what bothers me. Four Tigers is town. I'm town. My initial thoughts upon replacing into the game were that Crab Canon, Chimaira, and Mr. Smith looked town to varying degrees.

That means that while Bowser was being wagoned, either 1) the first five players on the counterwagon were town, or 2) one of the strong scary trusted hydras is scum.

If Bowser is scum, would the bv wagon be entirely town driven? I mean, CSL being one of Bowser's heads negates that a little (he's prime bussing material). But surely at least one buddy would have pushed a case elsewhere. Do I need to rethink my scum read on Bowser and/or one of my initial town reads?

Since this is only the final vote count, I need to reread D1 to see how the Bowser wagon and bv counterwagon developed (for example, if there were any late hops onto the former or jumps from Bowser onto bv).

[MasterSpy]

3) Faranor

Here's

my token attempt to pressure Faranor just to appease Black Spy for taking the wind out of his case

stuff I noticed when doing an in-depth read of his ISO.

Bvnotamod is probably town, I'm assuming they're not going to act like an idiot the whole game, but town nonetheless. I found the mod thing funny, as is their new avatar.

-Why do you think Bv pretending to be the mod made him more likely to be town? He might have even chosen the name before getting his role PM.
-Why did you vote for IC?

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Smith.
I think I see why Fara~ voted for IceCream, but this vote is better.[/quot]
I don't see why. Why do you think Faraday voted for Ice Cream?

Also, my other head is a little miffed that you still haven't answered this:

@Faranor – STOP IGNORING THE FOLLOWING QUESTION –

@Fara – in 310 you made a pointed comment regarding me ‘not following up’ on promised content. I asked you to clarify what via quotation what I was not following up on. You never responded. Again I’d like to know the reason for your comment.

Looking at the wagon from yesterday, I'll say that Masterspy and 1-2 of {IceCream, Pineapple} are scum on the bv wagon, and that 0-1 of {PP} was scum off the wagon.
Faraday seems to be of the opinion that Pineapple is obvscum though, and I think that Pineapple is scummy too (not as scummy as MS, buttttt), so I like our vote.

I can’t believe you actually posted this Nik.

You are suggesting that the lynch wagon had either 2 or 3 of the Scum on it despite the fact that they chose to kill on that wagon which would narrow down the pool. That is terribly stupid logic.

And you label the only possible person to be scum off the wagon as Prof Paradox? Who you soft defended in ISO 7 and mentioned in no other way Day 1?

I’m not buying you think this is credible at all.

(*mumble mumble* even-though-I-think-Black-Spy-is-the-only-person-in-this-game-who-would-bother-worrying-about-whether-his-nightkills-narrowed-down-the-pool-on-the-lynch-wagon *mumble mumble*)

I barely know why I think MS is scum. If you think about the way both Faraday and I play, you'll understand how our QT looks right now.

Okay, this is kind of ridiculous.

Why do you think MasterSpy is scum before?

No, seriously. Give a reason. Don't tell me neither of you know why. Nikanor. Write three sentences or more explaining why you think MasterSpy is scum. Write three sentences or more why you think Pineapple is scum.

And Faraday. Three sentences or more explaining why

you

thought MasterSpy is town. Three sentences or more explaining why you personally (as opposed to Nikanor) think Pineapple is scum. Come on, I know you can write a wall post if you really set your mind to it.

I get gut reads, and I get finding it a waste of time to post all your reasoning in the thread. But if you're so bad at introspection that when you're asked pointblank to justify your opinions, you can't come up with a single instance of scummy behaviour from your top suspect, or even a single quote that you don't like, then you aren't playing Mafia, just guessing random names, and your "reads" are probably either cognitive biases or contrived and phony. Make an effort to understand your own thought processes.

Seriously, I don't get it. How do people have

no idea whatsoever

why they think whatever it is they think? Are you

sure

this isn't a vezokpiraka/Furcolow hydra?
============================================================

I've got to go, now (will answer Tom's question later). I still feel like I only have patchwork knowledge of the game (probably due to having paid closer attention to some players than to others). I need to look at Ice Cream (may consider voting him depending on what I find), Tom and Jerry, and Mr. Smith (another premature claim fan).

~White Spy

[MasterSpy]

bv310: Can you fix the quote tag above, please (just add an e to the -nor closing quote)?

[MasterSpy]

First I’d like to thank White Spy for taking the lead and making this slot productive these last few days. Bravo White Spy … I will not rig the vending machine with deadly blades now …

I don't think that lynching anyone except for my two scum reads is in any way the correct play today, and since it seems that Pineapple will swing, I would rather not make people read my weakass, imminently changing cases on other players.

Regardless of whether Pineapple does swing you need to make your impression felt.

What do you think of Paradox’s play?

Pineapple's new head noticed that Chim and Crab have said that they're willing to vote us based on lack of contribution, making us the only likely alt wagon, and thus is going for it. Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed. It's time to claim.

Scumtastic. You pop in, make a few ill supported assertions and expect that suddenly you are in the clear?

For the record, I don't really care for his lack of contribution either and I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt this game, but I'm about sick of that and would lynch him today if there is support before deadline.

Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt? I haven’t ever played with pacman but for someone of Elli’s reputation (nominated for Best New Player) the content from him is downright horrible.

MasterSpy is scummy because his scumhunting looks fake. Statements like, "Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell," come from scum talking to town. That kind of statement does not come from town who thinks that the person he is talking to is scummy.

Bullshit. Sorry Nik, but it is. You tried to cobble some sort of vague Wiki-tells to cover the fact that your reads were completely gut based. And I called you on it. Had you just said ‘I think Z, X and Y’ are scum it would have worked much better into the meta for you that the White Spy is trying to beat me to death with in our QT. But you didn’t. Does it make you scum? Not necessarily, but it does make me question your motives.

Page 11: Lol, I see some amount of mod-WIFOM in MasterSpy's #225, questionable content riddled with emotional responses. Mafia cracking under pressure, me thinks.

Really? You’ll have to seriously back all these statements up because I find it compelling.

What specifically is Mod WIFOM? What is questionable content and what do you see as emotional responses? How would you characterize it as ‘cracking under pressure’ when not a single vote was resting on the slot at that juncture.

I’m interested in seeing your support your assertions Charlie.

On to general impressions –

I agree 100% with both WhiteSpy’s read on Pineapple and impression on Maclock’s replace in post.

Pineapple just feels quite honestly like someone not capable of keeping with some of the other Hydras’ play level and an easy target based on the hammer of BV. I need to go back and look to see who from the bv wagon has pushed against them for the hammer. Because everyone on the wagon is responsible for their vote on the mislynch. Pushing for bv’s lynch and then hitting Pineapple hard for hammering is an inconsistency I don’t like.

WhiteSpy and myself are split regarding enough of our reads that Crab Canon is the only solid Town read we share.

I still want to see Prof Para take the rope but wouldn't shed a tear if Bowser was a stand in for Paradox.

~The Black Spy

[MasterSpy]

Also, being nominated for a scummy =/= most awesome scummer ever. It is an open process afterall. elli is a fine player, but his recent close affiliation with DGB has warped his playstyle into being non-contributive imo. It's more of a null tell than anything if you ask me.

Regardless of whether the process is open unless some close friends just nominated Elli for kicks being on any list for the Scummies implies a level of skill and commitment that I have yet to see from Elli. You may be right about recent trends due to DGB.

@PP re 503-506

: If that is some half-assed attempt at VC Analysis you are doing it completely wrong.

What I meant to say is that your words aren't matching up to what you're supposed to be thinking. You say that my post makes you question my motives, as if you weren't doing that already. You're saying, "Well this here post could very well be scummy!" which is scummy.

Your opinion is noted. Completely wrong, but noted. Your ‘reasoning’ for who was scummy based on the bv311 wagon was horrible and I pointed it out as such.

In other news, we have less than two days left before our deadline. It would be great if the people voting for IceCream could go back to Pineapple so that we can get a claim today.

Great that you want a claim. At this late juncture a credible claim out of Pineapple most likely results in a No Lynch. Shouldn’t you want people to vote for Pineapple because, I don’t know, you actually think they are scum?

This is the new un-Untrod Tripod head checking in to replace CSL. Trying to get thread read before deadline, but I wanted to say hi and announce my presence.
Won't comment on anything else yet as i don't want to inadvertantly disagree with my other half.

Nice of you to show up approximately 15 hours before deadline and say nothing. Classy.

I will not be likely on between this post and deadline so if this slot changes its vote WhiteSpy is in charge of that. And given the Pineapple is going to be the lazy, let’s just go with the flow as opposed to lynching PP scum Lynch today I doubt we will be changing to them.

~ The BlackSpy

[MasterSpy]

Aah! This game is so frustrating.

I'm here to hammer if necessary (I think there's an hour to go before the deadline), but this is pretty annoying. Pineapple is acting like a townie on his deathbed, not like scum, even though his last post is an utterly useless attempt at analysis. He just seems to be totally off in Lalaland. Neither head likes this lynch (although Black Spy's reasoning seems to be more others' reactions to him rather than Pineapple himself).

I really wish Black Spy was here for feedback.

At an even number of players, a no-lynch wouldn't be the end of the world, but if Pineapple doesn't die, everyone else in the game is an idiot who's just going to go, "LOL, we have no choice but to lynch Pineapple today, because Pineapple is

obv-scum

! Even though I haven't read the game, of course. Because...uh, I dunno, I haven't actually read the game, but everyone else says he is! And stupid players are always scum...except when they're me, of course."

I dunno, what's the vote count right now. Is there any other viable wagon besides Pineapple?

Well, right now, there is utterly no chance in hell that this town wins. Zero. Good game, scum. Or more accurately, horrible game, town. Better add this one to the loss column. I shouldn't pass around blame, since I've spent most of the game on V/LA or catching up, but it's still infuriating. It's just nothing but braindead comments like "LOL, what's going on? I dunno. VOTE: Crab Canon, because...um, he was mean to me." *three days later* "LOL, VOTE: Faranor. Because he's obvscum, because...dunno, he probably is. Because someone else said he was." *half the game replaces out*

I dunno if I should even try spamming the thread with content before someone hammers, in case we get targeted for a kill tonight and don't get protected. Um...last words just in case. Ignore everything that Black Spy said about Faranor, because they're obvtown, so don't lynch them. Crab Canon is our strongest joint protown read, and the most useful player. Professor Paradox has COMPLETELY IGNORED my point about meta. And please...PLEASE...someone put pressure on Chimaira tomorrow if they're still alive. PLEASE.

Notice that they're two of the strongest players in the game, and yet they've essentially been sitting on their hands all day. They've concentrated the bulk of their energy on chiding the non-voters to

vote

. In fact, Zorblag has a suspect list that consists solely of players who haven't voted yet. They haven't been seriously pressuring anyone in a way to find out more about their alignment

Gah. I wish I'd mentioned this sooner.

~White Spy

[MasterSpy]

AAAAAH!

I'm here right now...but oh fuck.

Where is Black Spy where I need him?

Because...um, I'm starting to have reasons for thinking that lynching

might

be better than no lynching, since it's just delaying the inevitable.

Please don't tell me there are fifteen minutes left, are there.

Um...random point about Chimaira:

Still extremely happy with a Pineapple lynch. I think we're looking at a scum flip here, the lazy town claim doesn't inspire me away from that thinking.

So wait. You think you're looking at a scum flip because Pineapple

claimed vanilla

? Are you saying town is more likely than scum to claim vanilla?

[MasterSpy]

EBWOP: Um, I mean the opposite. You think scum is more likely than town to claim vanilla? This just seems like a lazy attempt to keep up their Pineapple suspicions.

And Talitha's suspicion of Pineapple doesn't seem all that sincere. But...eh, I kind of see the point about survival instinct.

[MasterSpy]

Well, that's the end of that.

PP, your ISO 42 essentially just says, "I don't know why PP took the stance he did on meta." That's not an answer. I want Ellibereth himself to come in this thread and explain why he backtracked his stance on meta. Why did he refuse to claim? Which posts were his and which were

Speaking of which, can you explain what you meant by the discussion about "reactions"? Paraphrase it some more. Ellibereth made it sound like he did it mostly for the lulz. What reactions did he say he was hoping to draw?

I disagree with Talitha on how easy it is to fake a last words post: on the contrary, I find townies ten to look about ten times more townish when their lynch is inevitable.

Current guess for a scumteam: PP-Bowser-Chimaira? (unfortunately, I have almost no read on IC and T&J, so either would probably fit in as well.)

Oh, and Crab Canon is obvobvobvtown.

This game is so annoying.

[MasterSpy]

BlackSpy here on my phone so don't expect fancy posting.

I agree re: Chime ... to much Reasonable Town Tm and not enough scum hunting.

Don't like deadline lynch but hate No Lynch.

CC is agreed as strong Town read.

So much for not revealing your hydra head. *snickers*

[MasterSpy]

Current guess for a scumteam: PP-Bowser-Chimaira? (unfortunately, I have almost no read on IC and T&J, so either would probably fit in as well.)

what is that based on though? are there any particular connections between them? or do you have individual scum reads on each of them?

It's more individual scum reads, but they do fit nicely together.

That said, this post did make me consider a PP-Chimaira team:

I like your Professor Paradox push now given the complete lack of contribution for that spot today. I do wonder how likely you think you are to get the support to make it a viable wagon to consider though.

But yeah. I've just ISO'd Chimaira and

really

looked at them for once. They really aren't at all as helpful as they look if you just skim over one of their "Rah, rah, let's all contribute and vote!" posts. And it's hard to tell with Zorblag (because he always does look IC-ish and mild-mannered), but I find the Zorblag head in particular to be pretty wishy-washy. He hasn't been very aggressive, or got into any back-and-forth. Case in point:

@Pineapple, your hammer post seems to be awfully concerned about how people will perceive you to me. Would you say that's a fair observation? I'm also curious how you justify the sentiment that you shouldn't have to share your thoughts on who's scummy just because your other head was asked about it (from Post 326.)

Also, it's ironic that he's the one who said this:

For what it's worth, those four might as well be my top four suspects at this point (though it's not like there isn't some stiff competition for a number of other spots; there's so much more to dislike than to like in this game.) They'd be there somewhat naturally anyhow and the not voting (even in a game with low participation) pushes them to the top. Mind you, it's not just those who aren't voting now who should be doing something. We need to start figuring out what sort of shifting needs to be done to get a lynch in before deadline; we're not short on reasonable choices but we lack discussion and the effort to get a cohesive process going.

...when he only posts once after that, to remind people that the deadline is three days away. I know he likes taking a leadership role, but he's content to sit back and coast and let the town dig their own grave.

Also, Zorblag, why did you suspect Tom and Jerry more than Professor Paradox? Your entire case on T + J was based on him

not voting

. It seemed like you were latching onto a surface scumtell.

Sotty occasionally makes a decent point, but I get the feeling she doesn't really seem to have her heart into what she's saying. Her Pineapple attack in particular felt lazy.

That said...Sotty, can you please elaborate on the friction that went on behind the scenes with Chimaira Head 2 v. 1 that made him/her replace out?

[MasterSpy]

...why the fuck would you claim a role during twilight?

*headdesk*

[MasterSpy]

Hey, Professor Paradox?

Three minutes elapsed between your vote and my asking you this:

PP, your ISO 42 essentially just says, "I don't know why PP took the stance he did on meta." That's not an answer. I want Ellibereth himself to come in this thread and explain why he backtracked his stance on meta. Why did he refuse to claim? Which posts were his and which were

Speaking of which, can you explain what you meant by the discussion about "reactions"? Paraphrase it some more. Ellibereth made it sound like he did it mostly for the lulz. What reactions did he say he was hoping to draw?

Any reason you didn't answer this immediately?

Ah, just realized something, though. I'm not sure Bowser-PP works as a scumteam given their early interaction (was PP one of the first on his wagon?). I should reread to see if it might have been bussing.

[MasterSpy]

Oh, and on a fluffier note...LOL at Pineapple's appropriate avatar change.

[MasterSpy]

*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*
*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

I hate this town. I...I don't even know if one or both of you is lying. I just hate this town.

Hey, I've got an idea. Who wants to have a mass roleclaim right now, during twilight? Someone needs to post "I'M THE DOC" just for comedic effect.

So wait, Bowser. Since you're calling Parama scum, you think he's Mafia trying to claim his nightkill as a vigkill, and he's

faking

his kill on you just to confirm himself, even though he'd have been umpteen times better off just trying to get you mislynched tomorrow for the win (considering Smith wasn't under that much suspicion). Then...um, why would you reveal your role in the first place, if you think he's lying, instead of calling his bluff? I don't like that you're trying to paint him as obvscum AND STILL revealing your role needlessly. Why do you think he's scum?

Also, your tracker claim is missing something very important. Can you figure out what it is, and why it's scummy that you didn't mention it immediately?

And Parama, why did you even claim during twilight in the first...OMIGOD, I HATE YOU ALL.

*sobs*