Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[IceCream]

/confirm.

Reading now.

[IceCream]

Ok, the first page:

.

I agree with the "telling heads is no fun" sentiment. I think the point of this game is for it to be anonymous.
I don't like Bowser's FoS, it's increda-pointless in the RVS. I'll keep my eye on him. (BTW Bowser, please keep posting things like "for goomba's sake, it's super funny).
I like Smith's vote for bowser after the FoS, and don't like Bowser's Random Vote right after it. I'm liking Bowser as scum at the moment.
Bowser Un-Foses? Lynch please?

FoS is not an irrelevant gesture.

It is in the RVS, especially being your first vote.

Second page

Bowser's post 31 is so anti-town, it's not even funny.
Tomandjerry's 34 isn't much better, the connection between the two is noted.
@OJ-37/Crab-38: Scum can use meta too, especially if someone's town and scum meta are close. The last thing we want is an artificially confirmed town hydra that is scum.
This half of Icecream agrees with Mr. Smith post 39

Third and fourth Page

BV311, could you not have a picture that's so similar to smith's? Thanks.

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

1) I do not wish. My other hydra head might, but for now I chose to remain anonymous
2) I'd say Lurkers should have more attention paid to them in this game, given that everyone's a hydra
3) See 1
4) Bowser, see above
5) EST (me), GMT+7 (other head)
6) Vanilla town, though I personally haven't played many other roles than that.

I don't like Smith's post 74. VI is not scummy, and I don't know where or why you made that assertion.
I will be watching the Smith-Crab argument, no comment on it at the moment.


Btw, Other half of the hydra is picking our avatar, since I chose the name.

[IceCream]

Oh, and

Vote: Bowser

, that might be important.

[IceCream]

Ice Cream 81:
Thanks for not being specific about ANYTHING. AT ALL. Seriously. Your post is like an extreme version of what makes Bowser scummy - making no commitments, using unspecific language. I don't care what you don't like, or what you think is anti-town, I want to know what you think is scummy and why. Anti-town =/= scummy btw.

It was a catchup post. Seeing as me and my hydra head are about halfway around the world from each other, I made it for his benefit as much as anyone else's.

[IceCream]

Ice reporting:

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
--> IceCream.
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
--> Probably Liars, but not lurkers.
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
--> Yes. Though I'd rather have fun remain anonymous.
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
--> Bowser.
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
-->
6. Your favorite role?
--> Mafia Goon.

I agree with what Cream has been saying:

I'm here, and ready to burn some scum!

I will start with a

FoS: Crab Canon

for making people reveal their heads!

Bowser's FoS-ing, stating no reason why making people reveal their heads is scummy.

Just as a show of good faith.

UnFoS

As soon as they were under fire, they AtE their attacker, implying they did not believe in their initial FOS at all.

It was a joke FoS. Who makes a "legit" anything in post #9? Do you think we're retarded?

Joke FOS? Why not an RVS vote? More backpedalling attempts.

FoS is not an irrelevant gesture. Stating your suspicions is helpful. In this case it wasn't all that meaningful, especially since we talked it over and decided that trying to figure out heads wasn't suspicious (which we said later). That's why we un-FoSed.

Why didn't you say so when you FOS-ed? If your FOS was a joke then why do you feel the need to un-FOS?

here, I'll quote you out of context

I'm scum at the moment

What? He said he's scum? Lynch him! What, you said all those words, don't act like I didn't quote you right. You're just mad because I caught you.

Er ...

unvote, vote: IceCream

HoS: Bowser

Yes, I think he's bussing. His attack is weak and easy to back out of. Bowser's counter-attack is just the same.

Cream has barely made a case on Bowser. He only gave his general feelings towards the thread as a whole so far. The change of vote to us makes no sense if you think Bowser + IceCream scumteam.

I would consider voting IceCream, but still think bv311 hold presidence. I think a IC-TAJ is more likely then IC-Bowser though if you look at the relationships there. Smarter to say "X is scum with Y" where X is town and Y is your partner in an early stage, since if a X wagon shows up you wont end up getting your partner lynched while appearing to suspect them conditionally. Thats just personal theory though.

Smith's suspicion on us was because he thought we soft-bussed Bowser. You haven't been explaining, instead, you are doing to the scummy buddying up card.

[IceCream]

Bvnotamod is probably town, I'm assuming they're not going to act like an idiot the whole game, but town nonetheless. I found the mod thing funny, as is their new avatar.

Yes to claiming hydra heads. Guess who we are? Derp. I find the advantages of knowing who's posting what to outweigh an potential negatives. Meta's useful to me so yeah.

vote icecream

I think Bowser's probably town actualy, it doesn't look like bussing to me.

You agree that we are not bussing him, give no reason for our vote as well as anything else in your post. Nice try but it's clearly not enough.

[IceCream]

Am I not surprise. Now please provide clear input

[IceCream]

unvote, vote: IceCream

HoS: Bowser

Yes, I think he's bussing. His attack is weak and easy to back out of. Bowser's counter-attack is just the same.

Cream has barely made a case on Bowser. He only gave his general feelings towards the thread as a whole so far. The change of vote to us makes no sense if you think Bowser + IceCream scumteam.

And Smith, care responding to this?

[IceCream]

You cannot confirm anyone through meta, that's stupid. You can have working hypothesis' and they can be helpful whether you decide to change your mind later or not. And I was answering to Mr. Smith's flawed argument that townies identifying townies isn't particularly helpful, and working from within his stated premise than townies are able to do so through meta.

It was an extreme example, yes, but I still just don't like meta.

Why?

I wanted to see how it would turn out without being tainted by my comments. Seeing as you've moved on, I think it was almost certainly Town vs Town, but I needed to see it thought to the end to make sure.

And I guess I'm cream. That's... unfortunate

~Cream.

[IceCream]

Vote: TomandJerry

For posting questions and not actually answering themselves. The rest of the thread is a blur and I will probably try and read it again later.

My scumdar is pinging. Why is him asking the questions scummy?

~Cream

[IceCream]

You're bunnylover, aren't you?

~Cream

[IceCream]

You're bunnylover, aren't you?

~Cream

Except Bunny isn't even in this game. Derp. Ignore me

~Cream

[IceCream]

- You ignore the debate of meta in regards to claiming saying that it is "more fun not to" despite seeming to think meta will slightly help
- Scare tactics that meta will "falsely confirm scum as town". You ignore the fact that meta DOES work, which is why it is used on this site, to latch onto a worse case scenario
- Not giving reasoning on why TAJ is scum connected to Bowser, just that he is.
- Commentary of the Smith-CC debate, that meaning there is none, just a "oh look at this" comment followed by moving on.

1> You basically contradicted yourself with that post. You say I ignore then say that I provide my opinion. So what if I want fun?
2> That was Cream. And you contradicted your first post again, saying I think meta will slightly help then saying I ignore that meta does work.
3> Like I said, Cream just gave his general page read. Do you really think he's making a case?
4> Meaning ..?

Vote Pineapple

~Furry

You voted Pineapple while blasting away about how Us and TnJ were scum?

but I needed to see it thought to the end to make sure.

I will be watching the Smith-Crab argument, no comment on it at the moment.

I think this line of thought is consistent.

Those lines were consequent, and there were several other mentions of disagreeing with us or agreeing with Smith in related matters in the post. This "I'll be watching you" reads like highlighting but not taking sides, but not in the "this is prob town-town" way, and expressing dislike for Smith's post at the height of the fire doesn't match with not wanting to taint by comments.

vote: IceCream

Clarify. Now.

~Ice

[IceCream]

I thought it was pretty clear. When you say in the middle of an argument "I don't like this recent post from side B. I'll be watching this, no more comment for now." it doesn't come across to me as stemming from "A vs. B is probably town-town, but I don't want to take sides/taint this exchange."

First, that's not what I said at all. I said I'm taking note of the conversation. Second, it was more for the benefit of my other head seeing as we aren't anywhere close to being in the same timezone so communication is hard.

Your scumdar is in need of maintenance. The issue is not the questions. The issue is that in the post the questions were asked T&J did not answer them. It leads to two options –

1. If the questions are indeed useful for providing solid game information why did T&J not answer them when originally asked, or even later?
2. If the questions aren’t useful why even ask them? That would be a pure fluffing post then.

Ok, this is valid, especially the "answer them later" bit.

[IceCream]

The above:

~Cream

[IceCream]

... Fuk.
I think it's sooner or later that we all reveal our names.

~Ice

[IceCream]

Ah, the old timezones effing with your QT. That makes sense.

Is this sarcasm?

~Cream

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

~Aknothappycream

[IceCream]

I don't think scum would call a plethora of people town for no reason. What benefit do you think a scum would gain from that?

buddying, seeming like they are scumhunting while town has a horrible memory for townlists, and avoiding to lie. So lets lynch PP.

That's exactly the opposite of avoiding to lie. Scums don't want commitment and towns have threads to reread.

I can also tell you why accidentaly revealing your real name is slightly protown, but scum would abuse that, wouldn't they?

I thought you are against revealing names?

And I think I saw Bowser still posting elsewhere...

How can Bowser post somewhere else?

Picking that Fara line out of everything is really wierd.

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.

@bv310:

Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

Ah, the old timezones effing with your QT. That makes sense.

Is this sarcasm?

~Cream

Your punishment for laughing at me

Ok, I am Sotty's other hydra head.

So who is Sotty's first Hydra head?

What's wrong with calling 3 people town?

1. yes, I have played with Ellibereth before.
2. as to the call-people-town-thing:
a) there is no pro-town reason to do so:
-> If said players are not being attacked in that moment, you throwing out a town read is not going to do anything
-> If those players are being attacked in that moment, if you do not explain why you think they are town, you are not helping either
-> it does not help scumhunt, since there are too many players left and you are not going to find scum by elimination
-> It tells scum who you think town is, which is usually not good, as they can pick NK-targets better
b) there are scum-reasons to do so:
-> you buddy up to players, hoping they won't attack you
-> you post "reads", while actually not posting nothing of content. Therefore, you

look

pro-town, or at least attempt to do so.

a1> It provides transparency on reads for the town.
a3> Are you suggesting we all hide our reads in the closets?
b1> And hoping you don't get caught buddying.
b2> Reads at this point are mostly vibe-like so there's hardly a point in explaining.

Liking someone's argument or not doesn't necessarily correlate with thinking someone is town or not.

No, it doesn't necessarily correlate. However, if you're town, you tend to agree more often with other town members...correct? Seems like if you're agreeing with the scumbags, then you're doing it wrong.

This is terrible logic. My point being I absolutely can think someone is town even if I disagree with him.

Please mention us seperately. I don't think I did that anywhere. I even answered accusations against Cream.

Ah, no. You're not going to be mentioned separately because you're a single player in this game. I dont' care which one of you did it, you were making excuses. I'm referring to this:

2> That was Cream. And you contradicted your first post again, saying I think meta will slightly help then saying I ignore that meta does work.
3> Like I said, Cream just gave his general page read. Do you really think he's making a case?
4> Meaning ..?

Your reply was basically, "It was Cream fuhgetabouit!"

That's not an excuse, it's a request. My reply was "I don't think I did that anywhere. I even answered accusations against Cream", which is exactly what I was doing in the post you quoted. I do not agree with you, do you think I should call you scum?

[IceCream]

IceCream, what is the reason you are present in the thread but so far have not voted at all?

..and retracted, missed it in iso. Votes from before official end of confirmation stage have never counted though.

Oh right! I intend to vote bowser, but not before I get a votecount :looks at mod:

Also, I'm probably going to be making all the posts from this head from now on. Trying to coordinate two people posting is hard. My other head is still going to discuss with me in the QT though.

~AKnottedCream

[IceCream]

Other head here. No time to add anything now.

Funny how fourtigers should want to easy-vote bv over suspects/scumhunting though, what with a week left before deadline.

Any lynch is better than no lynch, so I wonder why you would say this. I wouldn't shed a tear over a bv lynch myself.

[IceCream]

Thank you, troll

VOTE: Bowser

[IceCream]

I still think Bowser is scummier than bv. bv is antitown, but Bowser has been overtly scummy.

~Cream

[IceCream]

I still think Bowser is scummier than bv. bv is antitown, but Bowser has been overtly scummy.

~Cream

I definitely just posted this after master's most recent post, but it said I posted it over 12 hours ago. What the?

[IceCream]

@IceCream, remind me what you think Bowser's done that's scummy as opposed to anti-town if you will. We've got a case for active lurking for him but it seems like we've got one of those for bv311. We've got some potential connections with Bowser's early posting but mostly it just looks unimpressive rather than super-scummy to me. With bv311 we've got lack of a presence early in the game (other than the avatar hi jinx) but lack of a presence isn't something that should help someone. Bowser's a fine wagon but I'm not sure why you think it's markedly better than bv311 and perhaps you can clear that up for me.

My other head made a pretty succinct case against bowser earlier iirc.

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.
@bv310: Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

This has yet to be answered. I am disappoint.

[IceCream]

bv just keeps getting scummier and scummier. I don't like how he keeps bringing up fourtigers "I will vote bv if deadline apporaches" comment when it isn't inherently scummy at all.

UNVOTE: Bowser
VOTE: Bv311

[IceCream]

@IceCream, remind me what you think Bowser's done that's scummy as opposed to anti-town if you will. We've got a case for active lurking for him but it seems like we've got one of those for bv311. We've got some potential connections with Bowser's early posting but mostly it just looks unimpressive rather than super-scummy to me. With bv311 we've got lack of a presence early in the game (other than the avatar hi jinx) but lack of a presence isn't something that should help someone. Bowser's a fine wagon but I'm not sure why you think it's markedly better than bv311 and perhaps you can clear that up for me.

My other head made a pretty succinct case against bowser earlier iirc.

There is something seriously wrong with this game if you think actions that occurred during pregame are still the scummiest thing in the thread so far. I do appreciate the move over to bv after this though. But seriously, we're 14 pages in. Bowser should probably be replaced.

Are things that happened during the (extremely lengthy) pregame any less valid than things that happened after the game started?

[IceCream]

Chimaira: Difference of opinion, I guess. But this argument is moot now, seeing that we both want a bv lynch. Speaking of which

Bv311, how about giving us a claim?

[IceCream]

Tom, I think Smith is saying that the Bowser wagon is a scum-driven alternative to the Bv wagon, but that doesn't exactly make sense given that the Bowser wagon existed long before the bv wagon.

[IceCream]

I agree with Troll that you're not trying if that's the best you can do on page 14.

Normally, this would be the case. However, given how scummy Bowser was early, and then given how he has posted sparsely since then, it's all we've got to go on in regards to that playerslot. Thus, things that Bowser did in pregame justify my strong scumread of him.

However, did you miss where I'm on the bv wagon now?

[IceCream]

I nearly flipped shits until I read that you were joking, spy -.-

In other news, Bowser is still scum, and I think that's a great place to start today

VOTE: Bowser

[IceCream]

Yeah um. Just no. You're using your partner's excuse as a get out of doing anything ticket.

Um.... what? My other head posted a case against bowser. Since we occupy the same playerslot, that is effectively the same thing as me writing a case on him.

Yeah, let's stop answering for other people, k thnx. Actually why are you doing this?

Because I understood what Crab was trying to say and someone else didn't?

---

In other news, Ice has knocked some sense into me. UNVOTE: Bowser VOTE: Pineapple

Of the things discussed in our QT, the woe-is-me style hammer post sticks out as the most overtly scummy. Had Pine not said anything like that, I probably wouldn't be voting him right now. Ironic.

~Cream

[IceCream]

Hi guys.
I'm Ice.
And VP Baltar is scum

Unvote.Vote:Crab Canon

[IceCream]

@Smith: Why is Faranor scum?
@MasterSpy: Because I've never played with Oj
VP is scum because of his overall level of commitment, his tendency to start off the game actively and lay low later on. I also have a scum vibe coming from his posts by the level of content that he's producing.

~Ice.

[IceCream]

I find it amusing that people have such strong townreads ON PEOPLE THAT CAN LOOK TOWN IF THEY WANTED TO. The fact that this game has gone by really slowly despite its juicy player list manifests itself as extremely likely evidence that some of the strong players if not most are, in fact, scum. Crab strikes me as scum because of his enthusiasm at the start of the game in stark contrast with how he's behaving as of lately, which mostly consists of random comments and posts with discontinued thoughts. Smith's revote on Bowser is also WTF considering he felt strongly enough that Crab is scum despite my unexplained vote.
@TomandJerry: I have no idea where you get your strong town read on Crab on. Chimera is producing much healthier content than Crab.

[IceCream]

Mod: Prod Ice

I've been trying to get my other head in here to explain his CC vote for the past three days, seeing as he did it without much explanation (here or in thread). Since it seems that he's disappeared, I'm getting rid of it.

Unvote

General notes -- For me to go more in-depth on:

I don't like how smith jumped on Ice's CC wagon so quickly and then voted Bowser. I'll come back to this more in depth later.

Faranor's "masterspy is scummy" comment coming right after spy's post about him is suspect.

I need to go back and ISO P. Paradox, but the wagon seems town.

Bowser needs to get his butt back in here and do something.

~Cream

[IceCream]

Since I've been letting ice take over for the past few days, I'm going to do short ISO reads of a few players. Starting with smith, who I view as scummiest at the moment:

You are right. You are so right. Faranor is scum too, so on this moment I need to think a little more. Know that you have my support, and if I think it is a good idea, we are on the wagon.

I'd like to know why you think this. All of this.

What am I avoiding exactly?

OMG, you are doing it again!

Except I don't see how he was, and there's no explanation from your camp.

unvote, vote: Bowser

WHY DOES NOBODY WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY?

Smith's very next post (albiet three days later). In context, this comes just after Bowser calls smith scum with Pineapple. Again, no explanation of his vote hop.

---

Vote: Smith

Mostly for his Bowser vote

[IceCream]

What the fuck, stop effing claiming. G'damn!

[IceCream]

[/quote]Also, your tracker claim is missing something very important. Can you figure out what it is, and why it's scummy that you didn't mention it immediately?[/quote]
This.

Also

Mod: has Ice picked up his prod?

[IceCream]

Fucking fuck

Also, your tracker claim is missing something very important. Can you figure out what it is, and why it's scummy that you didn't mention it immediately?

This.

Also

Mod: has Ice picked up his prod?

[IceCream]

Aren't there seven heads left? Doesn't that mean we're neither in lylo nor mylo, or am I counting wrong?

[IceCream]

If we are in My/Lylo, claiming is a damn good idea

[IceCream]

Wait, this is a 12-p game. I assumed there were only two scum, nevermind.

And yeah, I did count wrong. Should we get claims out today or wait 'till tomorrow? Personally, I'd much prefer not giving scum a 100% chance to hit a PR, but that's just me.

[IceCream]

If no one objects, I'll hammer (?).

[IceCream]

Either Mr.Smith or Bowser has to be scum. How can they both get roleblocked at the same night?
I find it suspicious that Mr.Smith didn't comment on Bowser despite the fact that if he was town, he would be almost confirmed that Bowser is scum.

~Ice.

[IceCream]

Vanilla townie. We breadcrumbed it with our name (we thought it was funny).

PP goes next.

[IceCream]

Followed Crab Canon last night. Went nowhere.

IceCream gets to claim next.

You mean this?

[IceCream]

:blink:

[IceCream]

I don't even know. Ice hasn't posted in our QT for days. All I can theorize is that we've been talking about the possibility of bowser being scum, and so Ice thought he had a kill?

[IceCream]

Like I said, he hasn't posted in our QT for a while. If he doesn't answer you tonight, I'll get the mod to prod him again.

[IceCream]

Just so these are all in one place:

N1, followed Chimeira, we were "unable to determine" if he went anywhere

Why has this not gotten more attention? I want Chimaira to claim next now.

[IceCream]

Yes

[IceCream]

Either Mr.Smith or Bowser has to be scum. How can they both get roleblocked at the same night?
I find it suspicious that Mr.Smith didn't comment on Bowser despite the fact that if he was town, he would be almost confirmed that Bowser is scum.

~Ice.

I thought Smith was Vig getting roleblocked and I messed up the Nights.

At this point. I believe there to be one scum among the PRs ( PP's claim look the fishiest ) and two among the VTs ( most likely Smith and Faranor ). Thus, I'm happiest with lynching Faranor today.

~Ice.

[IceCream]

Just so these are all in one place:

N1, followed Chimeira, we were "unable to determine" if he went anywhere
N2, followed IceCream,

he went nowhere

N3, followed Crab Canon, he went nowhere

Those saying I could possibly be scum are wrong.

[IceCream]

If I'm not mistaken there's a distinct possibility that some of the scum can stay home at night.

Can that happen and there still be a kill?

But that aside, why are you using the words of another player who you presumably don't know the alignment of as any kind of hard evidence? It's like you know we're town...

~Tal

If you were scum, then I doubt you would have tracked me and even if you are, I doubt you would have admitted to it because that confirms me as town in LyLo. I'm hedging my bets that you're town.

[IceCream]

No... >.>

[IceCream]

Frankly, I'm a bit unnerved by these two wagons in LyLo. There is at least one scum voting already, I just have to figure out who.

[IceCream]

EBWOP: by the speed these two wagons have formed in LyLo

to be more clear.