Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Oso]

Let's see.

I've played games with Sotty, Nik, Benmage and Furcolow so 'Hi guys'.

To the rest, nice to meet you all.

[Oso]

I was going to go with

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I have it on good authority (a 7 year old) that Thursday is opposite day. Can't argue with that.

[Oso]

Whoo boy, I like it when the game gets out of RVS fairly quickly (granddaughter is going to be disappointed that opposite day might not have worked though).

UNVOTE:

VOTE: RedCoyote

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I agree with Percy's vote here. I'm thinking we have a similar problem with Sotty's comment. I don't recall IAI ever saying pointedly that Benmage's plan is scummy, yet she presumes that and gives him a question from that presumption.
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Information Instead of Analysis? I analyzed the one thing worth analyzing so far. Your initial scummy plan. Yeah you nixed it, after you were called on it. I just took the call on it and completely blew it up in your face.

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

IAM, if Benmage's plan was scummy, why aren't you voting him?

Since I'm not going to assume that RedCoyote is either drunk, high or has some sort of medical disorder that causes him to read posts out of order, then that must have been a deliberate attempt to cast an unfounded suspicion using a blatant falsehood.

Which means that Percy also get the hairy eyeball as well. Although, since he(Percy) never clarified why he made that post, I'm going to go (for the moment) with the thought that RedCoyote might have interpreted it so it fit his own nefarious agenda.

[Oso]

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I do not like #57 at all. UNVOTE: I Am Innocent; VOTE: Oso

Elmo, my scumdar was pinged on that exact same post.

unvote
unvote Oso

Normally I wouldn't comment on two votes this early in a game but what the hell, I have the time.

"Don't like the post and pinged the scumdar."

Was it because it:

A - I chose to vote someone who verifiably said something that wasn't true.
B - I chose to try and take any emerging pressure off of Sotty by voting someone who had just said something.
C - I took my pressure off the leading wagon at that point.
D - I cast direct suspicion on Percy (while leaving myself an out even) but also, by proxy, subtly casting suspicion back on I Am Innocent by following that chain of votes/players backwards thus not taking really taking my pressure off of I Am Innocent at all.
E - All/Some/None of the above.

If you chose A and D you would be correct. No way in hell I just caught three scum but I Am Innocent does see that I haven't taken any pressure off of his wagon at all by moving my random vote of him to RC, only the immediate pressure. May explain his jumping over to me with a vote.

@Sotty, I may join you back on that wagon as RC's mistake may have simply been a reading phail. He(IaI) already seems to be flailing in his defense quite a bit and flood posting, and it's barely 4 pages into the game and slightly over 1 day since the game started. Have to take that 7 year old out for an ice cream.

[Oso]

Grandiosity? Yes, that's me having fun with the language.

I see what Elmo was on about though, I've used that same argument in various forms myself. He mentions False Dichotomy in on his post (Benmage vs. I Am Innocent I believe) and the technical term(I think) for what I used on RC was False Dilemma, basically giving a range of reasons that either point to the player being incompetent or scum: All bad, none good. My answer to that is that I generally don't give a player the acceptable answer in the post I vote them for. Which was all right as Red showed he was perfectly able to get it on his own. I'll argue with the "trying to sound impressive...." part though. See above.

This I bugs me so I'ma say something about it.

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unvote. Vote: Oso. He's put far too much effort into analyzing the votes on him. I also agree that his attack on Red is stretching.

First off, the vote on Red wasn't stretching. He even acknowledges that. This is Mafia, the way it is setup almost requires you to vote (or at least say something) when someone posts something that isn't true.

Second, now Dry-fit is the one who is stretching. I have posted a defense against Elmo and IaI's votes against me here. It holds almost no analysis except for the part where I say I might have drawn IaI's vote because following the RC/Percy player chain of votes on Sotty7 for questioning IaI backwards, leads right back to IaI. The main thrust of that post was to to get out Point A.

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A - I chose to vote someone who verifiably said something that wasn't true.
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in order to show exactly how weak both Elmo's and IaI's votes were. Not really needed at this point in the game since it was only two votes but like I stated, I had the time.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dry-Fit

[/inb4 OMGUS] Unlike Elmo, who efforts seems to me right now as being legitimate, and IaI, who seems to have to have been starting meltdown mode during the time he voted, Dry-Fit is legitimately scummy trying to build a case on a player by using another player's reason that had no legs to start with and by adding one of his own that fails when you look at it closely.

I missed about a day and half of posts and will miss most of today's before being able to anything other than a skim catch up but I can live with this vote for the time being.

[Oso]

Apologies for not posting so much, I like to get in a minimum of once a day.

Like my vote where it is at so it stays there on Dry-fit for now.

Nik/ImKingDavid/jason. Friggin hilarious man, seriously.

@Dry-fit, when you said this:

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..If saying something verifiably wrong is almost always worthy of a vote, is Nikanor scummy for claiming daycop?
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I'd say yes if I hadn't played mafia with Nik before. I would have mentioned it (with or without a vote, probably without) but in this case, with the interaction between Nik, David and Jason. I say this instead.



As much as it pains me to admit though. Dry-Fit does have a point about Furcolow but since Dry-fit dropped me so quickly in favor of an easier target, I'll stay with him.

I'm liking a Dry-fit/Furcolow pairing for 2/3rds of the scum team.
Basically FOS a scumbuddy:

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Furculow's posts up to this point have been terrible. He asks people to tell him which wagon is best, jumps on one of the biggest wagons, and then suggests we name all the scum and set up chain lynches.

However, that does look like a slip by jason.
Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

Then vote a townie. (Yes, I do think jason stands a decent chance of being town because that whole thing regarding him and the Nikanor claim just strikes me as too bizzare to be anything but genuine.)

And then the scumbuddy counter-votes the FOS, 2nd post up above this one, with basically no real reason given.

unvote;
vote: dry-fit
following my heart

[Oso]

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I'd say yes if I hadn't played mafia with Nik before. I would have mentioned it (with or without a vote, probably without) but in this case, with the interaction between Nik, David and Jason. I say this instead.

But I actually was a cop in yabbaguy's game. >_>
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Yes you were. I was referring to the off the wall stuff. It was your offering to help lynch JacobSavage's suspect if he helped with yours first that was the turning point to exposing Jacob as the Serial Killer. The only thing in that game that was more bizarre than your making that offer was him accepting it.

@Furcolow. I ISO'd you and despite all the things I can see wrong in those posts, there is one thing I see that is right. This:

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c. consider that i thought there might be roleblockers and medics and shit... i'm obviously a townie.
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I won't go so far as to say obvious town but yeah. In the type of thinking that goes on in my world, one person misses a lot of things that three people wouldn't. In this case I would guess the mountainous set-up was discussed at least in passing, so that pretty much lets out a connection to anyone. I'll throw you into the pile of players that I don't want to lynch here in Phase 1 and I guess by using that reasoning, Jason and ImKingDavid are in that pile as well. Jason was already there and hadn't thought to much on IKD.

Dry-fit is the only definite player I'd like to see lynched, I'm slacking in this game more than I thought. I will come up with two others within the next day with cases or a reason why I couldn't. (<-Game reason there. I hope its not necessary to have to continue to plead real life for lack of activity.)

[Oso]

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...@Furcolow. I ISO'd you and despite all the things I can see wrong in those posts, there is one thing I see that is right. This:

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c. consider that i thought there might be roleblockers and medics and shit... i'm obviously a townie.
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I won't go so far as to say obvious town but yeah. In the type of thinking that goes on in my world, one person misses a lot of things that three people wouldn't. In this case I would guess the mountainous set-up was discussed at least in passing, so that pretty much lets out a connection to anyone. I'll throw you into the pile of players that I don't want to lynch here in Phase 1 and I guess by using that reasoning, Jason and ImKingDavid are in that pile as well. Jason was already there and hadn't thought to much on IKD.

Dry-fit is the only definite player I'd like to see lynched, I'm slacking in this game more than I thought. I will come up with two others within the next day with cases or a reason why I couldn't. (<-Game reason there. I hope its not necessary to have to continue to plead real life for lack of activity.)

Went from 2/3 of the scum team to only Dry-Fit.

I thought the whole Dry-Fit argument was based on his FOS'ing a scumbuddy

.
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Was going to put this in my main post but IaI is pissing me off enough that I'ma do it now.

Couple of thing I'll point out. This post. Paraphrased, from the Dry-fit quote on down, it goes into why I think that Dry-fit is person most likely to be scum who is voting me. Of the two others, Elmo and you, I state that Elmo's vote strikes me as legitimate (as in I think he made it for town reasons) and, even though I didn't come right out and say it, that yours was null because that seems to be just about the time your meltdown started.

This post:

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Like my vote where it is at so it stays there on Dry-fit for now.
[snip....snip]
As much as it pains me to admit though. Dry-Fit does have a point about Furcolow

but since Dry-fit dropped me so quickly in favor of an easier target, I'll stay with him.

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Your timeline is wrong there, Skippy. My vote and reasons to vote and then maintain my Dry-fit vote had very little to do with Furcolow. It was the other way around as I didn't have any major twitches about Fur until Dry-fit's casting of suspicion. Dry-fit's actions, at least in my opinion, stand alone as reason enough to vote/lynch him and need no connection to any other player at all.

I had ran across enough of a reason to think Furc may not be scum, invalidating my knee-jerk read of a connection between the them.

Read before you post please.

[Oso]

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So you only found one thing right about him, and many things wrong about him. But yet you in your last post said...(wait for it...) "I had ran across enough of a reason to think Furc may not be scum".
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Yep, you hit it right on the head. That's exactly what I said and I meant it.

The answer is right there in part of the post of mine that you quoted.

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one person

misses a lot of things that

three people

wouldn't. In this case I would guess the

mountainous set-up

was discussed at least in passing,

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Note the three bold parts. Relate that to how this game is set up and you'll see exactly why I'm willing to believe Furcolow is not scum at this moment even with what he has said in some of his posts.

[Oso]

Did a total re-read.

Some things that jumped out at me on players that have been the focus of attention at various points.

Elmo. Jury's still out for me on him but I will say up front I don't mind having him around. I like the way he pokes and prods and doesn't mind at all playing the "Devil's Advocate" (I think is the proper term), when he defends people. To be honest, I've never seen that sort of defending others play-style in a mafia game (to the extent he is using it) and it's throwing me on how to read him. I'm getting the definite impression though, that he votes people not so much to get a reaction out them as to see what others might do with the vote.

Red. I have considered what other folks have mentioned based on meta. I haven't played with him so I have no way to know if they are valid. He does seem to be an agreeable player but that makes him come across as non-committal in all but his vote of Jason. I don't like that he is voting jason at the moment but I've read his reasons. Borderline, as I can see them coming from town or opportunistic scum. I will say I disagree with Percy on one point though, I don't see his conceding he had made a mistake as scummy. He reacted pretty much as I expected someone who has made a mistake. He admitted it and moved on.

Benamge/IaI. Neither looks particularly good to me. IaI for his meltdown (which I hate to admit does point to a townie coming unhinged under pressure from my experience, rather than from scum) and Benmage for his confrontational posting style. I'm still smarting from the last time I tried to look that past that and ended up being wrong. On Benmage, I'm looking for a repeat of my last encounter with him. Get run up/involved in a fight early Day 1, posting like a berserk bulldog and then....I'll let you know if see the same pattern repeat. Up until then, the way he is posting is much more important than any content he is posting in my opinion. He bears watching at any stage of the game.

Nik/Jason (and to a lesser extent add IKD and Furcolow in this) Nik made decent point against Jason and up until he made that phony claim (which on my first read I thought was a joke) I was leaning that direction but like Elmo (I think it was Elmo) said, the whole situations is pretty much a head exploder if I think on it too hard. I will go out on a limb here and say that if one of the three (jason/IKD/Furcolow) does turn out to be scum I'm fairly sure the other two aren't. That's the point I was trying to get across to IaI in my last post. One person (by himself) might easily miss the fact this was vanilla. It is also possible that one of three scum might have a brain fart and forgot but I'd bet money right now that if Zach opened the mafia quick-topic for pre-Day 1 discussion, the fact that this is a vanilla game came up. In my mind there is a decent chance none of the jason/IKD/Furcolow trio is scum. Nik I don't want to see lynched today either. He pulled a stunt similar to this before (I mentioned the game briefly) and I am curious as to where he will go with it.

Sotty, Percy, Locke, Kaleidoscope, Mina, Mongoose. Nothing really stands out about you folks at the moment.

Which brings me back to my main suspect: Dry-fit. He's pretty much the only one I am getting a definite scum read off of.

Second choice would be Benmage. Not so much for what he has or hasn't posted but rather because the pattern he is currently showing is matching up almost exactly to the scum game I saw from him. Granted, it is hard to have a meta based on one game and he may act like that in all his games but there it is.

I did promise three but so far, I can't find a third person who I'd be willing to lynch today. And even Benmage is iffy. It would be hard to justify lynching him just because he is exhibiting a familiar pattern.

[Oso]

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I'd bet money right now that if Zach opened the mafia quick-topic for pre-Day 1 discussion, the fact that this is a vanilla game came up. In my mind there is a decent chance none of the jason/IKD/Furcolow trio is scum.

That's a pretty good point. I hadn't considered this. Still, it's a pretty big assumption to write three people off for. You'd also be writing off mongoose for this, right Oso? He admitted to the same thing.
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You are right, Mongoose did as well. I missed that (Found it in Post 77 though). I'd have to answer yes but it would be an additional reason to put Mongoose into my "don't want to lynch" pile. Not going to go into a great amount of detail but I don't get a scum vibe off his posts. His unsureness in some of his post strikes me as genuine rather than being constructed to look that way. The last sentence this post gives an excellent example of why I don't mind having him around for the moment.

But you have a point I do agree with in saying that making an assumption that clears 3 players is a leap and would be wrong if I set it in concrete. But it's good enough to take them out of consideration for the Phase 1 (and probably even the Day 1) lynch pool for me.

[Oso]

Welcome Baby Spice. Thanks for joining.

[Oso]

@Zach: Replacement needed.

I hate to add to your replacement woes as but this will be my last post in this game. PM to follow explain a bit of why. Short version:Good news but now have no time to play mafia in the foreseeable future.

I'll take this time to pre-emptively thank all you folks who are playing and to Zach as well. I was having a lot fun playing.

[Oso]

Good game folks.

I'd like to add my thanks to Zach for running the game and to Sotty for inviting me to play in the first place. Again, apologies to all for replacing out. Turns out it was the right thing to do though. Since that time (up until after the New Year) I managed to read/post here about twice, so I'd have real been a drag on my slot. I did wonder why Fitz(me) was NKed N1 but I think I figured it out.

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Benamge/IaI. Neither looks particularly good to me. IaI for his meltdown (which I hate to admit does point to a townie coming unhinged under pressure from my experience, rather than from scum) and Benmage for his confrontational posting style. I'm still smarting from the last time I tried to look that past that and ended up being wrong. On Benmage, I'm looking for a repeat of my last encounter with him. Get run up/involved in a fight early Day 1, posting like a berserk bulldog and then....I'll let you know if see the same pattern repeat. Up until then, the way he is posting is much more important than any content he is posting in my opinion. He bears watching at any stage of the game.
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Aside from Dry-Fit, I hadn't managed to cast suspicion on scum with my posting so far but had stated moderate to heavy suspicion on two townies. I am middling surprised that no one, later in the game, did any NK analysis. Aside from killing Locke (who as far as I can see, was probably killed because he was thinking deliberately) scum seem to have been mostly NKing people who didn't suspect them of anything in a major way.

In any case, it was most enjoyable being able to read the game in huge chunks when I had the chance and I thank everyone involved for the experience.

@Zach: I owe you one buddy (several actually). Replacing out as I did, you can PM me at anytime if you need a replacement for any of your games (that goes to any players as well who might be modding down the road and need a replacement) starting about 2 weeks from today. And for letting me play in the first place, Sotty put in a good word because I don't think I qualified to play by the experience qualifiers you put on this game if you just go by my MS games. Thank both you and Sotty for that.

[Oso]

Oh, and I'd like to add my request that the Scum QT link be posted as well

[Oso]

That was a question I was going to ask myself.

When I first /inned for this game (before even receiving a Role PM) I was thinking that P1 would be no-talk and P2 would be scum day-talk. Perhaps even having the scum able to talk without restriction after D1 ended.

[Oso]

I wouldn't worry on it too much, Zach. I think it did what it was supposed to do. Mountainous is supposed to put the focus on players rather than roles, yes?

Your set-up did that just fine, in my opinion. If either Dry-fit or [Mongoose/Baby Spice] had managed to avoid being lynched even by one day, that would have added another mis-lynch/NK to the pot and might just have tipped the scale in Scum's favor.

On re-reading the game a couple of times, Dry-fit had an excellent opportunity to avoid his lynch D1P1 simply by showing up and posting. I get the real impression that Dry-fit was lynched half because some really thought he was scum and half because he didn't post much of a defense. For just about 4 real life days, he had 3 or less votes on him. Had he been less busy with real-life, I am sure he could have talked his way out of that lynch.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I think the balance was just fine. Scum just had a thing or two break the wrong way, because of players/real life not because of set-up, in the early game that made their position position pretty unrecoverable.