Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[I Am Innocent]

Hello all. Looking forward to playing with some experienced players....the newbies in my most recent game are the worst crop yet!

[I Am Innocent]

Everyone knows there ain't worse scum than UK Sex Offenders...

vote jasonT1981

[I Am Innocent]

...That said...D1 should only have 1 lynch. Not 100% on the mechanics of this double lynch, but I guess we can no lynch for one of the lynches and than perform a standard lynch.

Ran the numbers. Assuming completely random lynches and utilizing all day lynches, the winning pcts are:
Town 39%
Scum 61%
(maximum 10 lynches over 5 days to catch 3 scum, 4 scum NK)

Assuming completely random lynches and

only utilizing one day lynch

, the winning pcts drop to:
Town 18%
Scum 82%
(maximum 7 lynches over 7 days to catch 3 scum, 7 scum NK)

Let's just say passes, especially early in the game, are going to benefit scum.

[I Am Innocent]

I already nix'd that plan. But thanks for the IIoA....looks like the 7 year old was right.

Information Instead of Analysis? I analyzed the one thing worth analyzing so far. Your initial scummy plan. Yeah you nixed it, after you were called on it. I just took the call on it and completely blew it up in your face.

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

[I Am Innocent]

IAM, if Benmage's plan was scummy, why aren't you voting him?

Cause it's page 2. I don't over react to poor play early in the game. More often than not these players turn up townie. But I'll watch him...

I just took the call on it and completely blew it up in your face.

For the purpose of????? .........Trying to look busy......classic scum tell.

For the purpose of trying to make sure town uses all its lynching opportunities. Anyone suggesting otherwise is pushing anti town strategies.

Question back at you: Was the information I provided helpful to the town? Was it hurtful to the mafia?

[I Am Innocent]

I helped Zach with the numbers for this game (and by helped I mean I linked him to this spreadsheet), and apparently it's about 50/50 if we lynch every day, with a slight lean towards scum.

Being a number cruncher, I am very certain that it is 61/39 in favor of scum:
1) I ran every scenario with every corresponding probability
2) I created a setup and ran 40,000 trials and the numbers converged to 61/39

As for the other setup (one lynch per day), I just created the setup and ran 40,000 trials. Got to lazy to run every possible scenario and corresponding probability.

I'll double check your file today if possible.

I would instinctively say IAI not voting for Benmage after calling him scummy wins mild scum points, but I'd have to look at other games to see if that's consistent with IAI's general early game play.

Why do you switch from saying it's scummy to saying it's bad play? If you think he's mafia, then it's scummy; if he's town, then it's bad play. What changed? How can it possibly be scummy if players doing that usually town out to be town?

To not use every possible lynch helps scum, so I used the words "scummy plan". Does that mean a townie who plays much more like a newbie who doesn't know any better could suggest it? Absolutely not.

So my first move was to make sure town understood that every lynch should be used, it is in our best interest. Next was to see if Benmage is a poor playing townie or opportunistic scum. So far his play falls under the poor playing townie category.

If the town could win a mafia game half the time by lynching randomly every day, it would be no fun.

I am very sure we can't win randomly 50% of the time, though if we do nail a scum D1, the odds flip just over 50% entering D2 (11 townies, 2 mafia left).

On the flip side, I did come up with an interesting strategy that makes D1 "somewhat random", but could box the mafia into a corner. I'll download the numbers from my work computer and present them to the group to see if we want to try it...

@ BenMage, what is your record on this site as town and mafia? Can you give me your best game as town?

[I Am Innocent]

So my first move was to make sure town understood that every lynch should be used, it is in our best interest. Next was to see if Benmage is a poor playing townie or opportunistic scum. So far

his play falls under the poor playing townie category

.

Okay. Why do you think that?

QFT. I'd like to know this as well considering I already corrected myself over a misinterpretation...so to suggest I'm playing poorly...is simply trying to undermine me.

Probably the way Ben attacked Percy for attacking Sotty for questioning me in Post 53. Ben has that newbie feel of someone trying so hard so early in the game, like he has everything all figured out and won't budge. All in all, I don't suspect scum to draw this much attention so early on.

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!
2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.

But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches

. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.

[I Am Innocent]

---

I do not like #57 at all. UNVOTE: I Am Innocent; VOTE: Oso

Elmo, my scumdar was pinged on that exact same post.

unvote
unvote Oso

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP

unvote
Vote: Oso

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

It looked like you were trying to dirty benmage for what he said in pregame and if you legitimately thought what he did was scummy you should have voted. Instead you threw out a random vote, it feels disingenuous.

The question felt a little spiteful and this explanation doesn't cut it.

I asked that question to primarily gauge his reaction

Sotty, you're smart, why would I try to dirty benmage and then say he is townie? Your logic doesn't add up girl. Try again.

Early suspects: Oso, Sotty, ?

[I Am Innocent]

Check the numbers on Nik's sheet.

On the

Double Day page

, Cell F16, it shows 39.04% winning pct. That is the exact number I got if we use all our lynches (39/61). Nik this is far from 50/50...

I looked on his

Vanilla page

, and I noticed Cell F16 matched F15. That would make sense that if we got 1 lynch a day with 0 power roles, you are better off passing D1 and lynching D2-8 than lynching D1-D7 and ending up with D8 possibly be 1 vs 1 (a forced lynch).

So my initial estimate was low, and the percentages if we did decide to only lynch once per day is 24.5%, which is a significant drop.

Okay, let's put this to rest before Benmage starts begging for proxy votes to have me ousted.

We lynch each and every time

. I don't care if we need to use the online mafia random generator, we are better off doing that than no lynching.

[I Am Innocent]

@ BenMage, what is your record on this site as town and mafia? Can you give me your best game as town?

Feel free to do the research yourself.

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

Question for you, are you playing under an alias in Newbie 1017 by chance, cause there are a ton of players just like you in there...

[I Am Innocent]

Ben has that newbie feel

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

AtE

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!

Deflection. And yes there are more than 1 scum in this game..thank you.

2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.

But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches

. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.

Standard, "I'd never do this as scum, I can't be scum".....geeze and hes calling me newb ... basic 101 scum tells up the ass from this guy.

Do I write him off as a VI?

@ BenMage, what is your record on this site as town and mafia? Can you give me your best game as town?

Feel free to do the research yourself.

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

Use the search function...look at my posts..i dont have the time, nor desire to pull up every game of mine, and I don't have an arbitrary "oh I was the best here" game.. I was the best in every game I played, save my first newbie, and first large one.

Question for you, are you playing under an alias in Newbie 1017 by chance, cause there are

a ton of players

just like you in there...

lol...yeah i'm playing as all of them...why are you asking pointless questions?

Do you know what else is a scum tell...voting for yourself.

unvote
vote I am innocent

To the rest of the town, sorry. I have never been lynched as a townie, nor lost a game as a townie. Somehow keeping me around may cost me another win...so I am bailing to rid us of this confusion. Keep an eye for those on my wagon, at least one scum there.

Benmage, you are a friggin tunneling moron. Either that or you are scum, if that is the case, my apologies for calling you a moron, well played. But I believe you are the worst kind of tunneling town. Guess what,

WIFOM makes most scum tells irrelevent (village) idiot

!

Sotty nominated me for a scummy as best new player. Now she wants me off. Watch her, def scum possibility. Townie Sotty would know how much I could help the team out...

Elmo is clearly town. Elmo, I would enjoy playing a game with you any time. I meant what I said about that Oso post. Seriously consider lynching him 2nd this day peeps.

For now, adios.

[I Am Innocent]

...I am Innocent, did you think that was a hammer.

Nope.

How's this. If you're afraid of "losing the game for us,"

replace out

.

I've never replaced out and won't start now. Besides, I don't think I will lose the game for us if I get killed D1-1

Or even better, actually make a case on someone who's scum, and vote for that person in order to get

that other player

lynched. How the hell are you saving the town from a mislynch by ENSURING YOU GET LYNCHED MORE QUICKLY? You're just cutting discussion short, giving fewer people a chance to take stands, and letting scum keep their hands clean.

It's too late, at least one mafia has got their hands dirty, probably oso, maybe sotty, jason, etc. It'll be ironic if it's benmage. I die, you can spend the rest of the 3 weeks on the real scum. We waste time deciding is IAI guilty, is he not, then lynch me a week before the deadline, not as good. I want almost the full 3 weeks for the remaining 12 townies to find that first scum.

[for jason] Remember, we get 1 scum D1 and odds are surely in the town's favor to win this thing... [/for jason]

Oh my God. I hate irritating "self-sacrificing" Vanilla Townies who think they're being

soooo

selfless by handing the scum a free mislynch on a silver platter.

Actually I do to. It pained me to do this, but it came down to strategy. If I was scum, I would draw out the IAI debate for as much of the 3 weeks as possible, leaving little time to catch the real scum with the second day lynch. All strategy my brother. Now vote me out.

ALL OF YOU!

Scum surely ain't gonna touch this now...

[I Am Innocent]

I also see no reason to not use at least 70% of the day on the first lynch
we should definitely be looking to set up chainlynches through who defended who and who attacked who relating to flips

First sentence, agree with
Second sentence, disagree with

In my filler post, information instead of analysis mind, I'd like to see about 1 week (or less) on the first lynch each day, and then a majority of time feeding off of that and getting a solid second lynch in as well.

Otherwise, the second lynch will be rushed each week. Rushed lynches rarely work out (in the short term anyway) to town's benefit.

My thoughts:
Still think Oso is scum
Jasont seems shady as all get out
Nik I get a town read on.

JasonT says Elmo is buddying to townie me. Yet Elmo was the first to mention that oso post on page 3 (then me), first to vote oso (then me), and I was the one who called elmo town. Does not add up to him buddying me, but vice versa...

[I Am Innocent]

Having trouble sleeping, so I decided to reread this whole thread since my other game is in night stage.

Came across this that I missed first time:

Ran the numbers. Assuming completely random lynches and utilizing all day lynches, the winning pcts are:
Town 39%
Scum 61%
(maximum 10 lynches over 5 days to catch 3 scum, 4 scum NK)

Assuming completely random lynches and

only utilizing one day lynch

, the winning pcts drop to:
Town 18%
Scum 82%
(maximum 7 lynches over 7 days to catch 3 scum, 7 scum NK)

Let's just say passes, especially early in the game, are going to benefit scum.

Few posts later:

Question back at you: Was the information I provided helpful to the town? Was it hurtful to the mafia?

It was null. It was filler. Therefore it was scummy and not helpful for the town. It was information on useless points because my initial point was based on the idea of not seeing the flips. I had forgotten that Zach said flips would be instantly revealed and corrected myself.

Had they been hidden, I would've pushed for a D1 only 1 lynch

.

I just proved a few posts earlier that one lynch a day is worse for town than two lynches a day, even if they are random.

The underlined above is scummy. It shouldn't matter whether a flip is revealed or not, we are still better off, ESPECIALLY D1, lynching the two most scummy looking people, even if we don't get an instant flip on the first player.

Disagree?

[I Am Innocent]

Regarding Nik's question on who I think is more suspicious, oso or jason, I think I lean towards oso.

Jason seems to be all over the place, and though that could still mean he is a poor playing scum, it could mean he is also a townie trying very hard

When I offered to self sacrifice, I was curious to see the responses of those on my wagon. This was the one that jumped out at me the most:

Unvote

IAM, when I said I wanted you frazzled I didn't mean melting down completely. Unvote yourself, your overreaction to the wagon on you is a little silly. Scum IAM would probably play it cool and brush it off so I'm going to make a leap of faith by taking my vote off for now. What you need to do when you come back into the thread is re-read the opening exchange between me, you and benmage. If you still can't see why my vote was on you I will talk you though it. If you are town you can be benefit so get in here and start doing that.

At this point I really doubt any of the people you listed are scum

. In other words, take a deep breath and start again, it looks like this is the first time you have been run up in this manner. Learn from it.

Lets try something different

.

Vote: Nikanor

Usually the mafia distance themselves, so I thought one, maybe two would be on my early wagon to "see where it went". The first underlined caught my eye though. How could townie sotty be so sure that of the 5 or so players that were coming after me, that none of them were scum. It made more sense that scum was on the wagon, maybe multiple scum.

My wagon quickly emptied, which was interesting because I was strongly pushing oso when my sacrifice flipped town.

A few posts earlier, sotty mentions how she likes oso and included a smilie. Yeah probably nothing, but could be something.

Sotty said, let's try something else. Could have been a message to me, could have been a message to a partner on the wagon with her.

I still stand by Post 57 from oso. I reread it and reread it and can't point out what exactly "felt off". All I know is another player mentioned it before me, which makes me wonder all the more about oso. Add to that and his defensiveness over every vote against him (thrown in with a recent OMGUS vote), and I lean towards oso as the more scummy.

After rereading, I'll go back to my scum list including oso, sotty, and guess a third member fell on the other side of the IAI wagon, maybe someone like mongoose.

[I Am Innocent]

why would I try to dirty benmage and then say he is townie? Your logic doesn't add up girl. Try again.

IAI I asked you on two seperate occasions to reevaluate this bad attack on me. Why did you ignore this?

Ummm, where were you...I kinda had a meltdown right after you asked this question...

Okay, truth be told, I thought I gave my reasoning for why I thought Ben was townie in Post 70. Everything I did, the hostile questioning, the throwing out of words like scummy, it is all to gauge reactions. He acted like a newbie townie to me.

I still think scum trying to discredit someone who seems easily discreditable would probably be playing a poor game if they took a stance calling said person townie. You played against me as a mafia and modded a game where I replaced in as mafia...you won't find a time when I tried to discredit someone only by following up with a stance of me thinking they were town...

Explain to me why I wouldn't, upon seeing that post, think that you saw benmage as scum?

Because I didn't vote for him. No, seriously.

Your self righteousness is sticking on me (but you nommed me for a scummy how could you possibly vote for me?!!) I don't like your reactions during being run up, and your posts since have been tainted with OMGUS. I hate to say it, but until you pull your head out of your ass and take an objective look at your wagon I can't take you seriously. You can't just paint those who dare ran you up as scum without any real solid logic.

Any real solid logic...are we back on scum tells again?

If I am townie, you really think 0 scum jumped on early as I was sticking my foot in my mouth? Real logic is experience, and experience tells me that mafia probably got on both sides of the debate there. For you to not believe that, well that ain't the sotty I played with. Then again, that sotty was town...

I'd also like to know why you think Nikanor is town.

Cause I'm a day cop.

[I Am Innocent]

My town read came largely from gut, part of which I now realise is that I believe this:

Being a number cruncher, I am very certain that it is 61/39 in favor of scum:
1) I ran every scenario with every corresponding probability
2) I created a setup and ran 40,000 trials and the numbers converged to 61/39

As for the other setup (one lynch per day), I just created the setup and ran 40,000 trials. Got to lazy to run every possible scenario and corresponding probability.

I think he did actually run the simulation. Going into enough detail to e.g. decide how many trials to run seems more effort than I'd expect from scum trying to fob people off in this situation. I don't think many scum would attempt that to start out with, and I don't think they'd typically "do their homework" when they did.

Honestly, this looks like a waste of time to me. Do you even think this is suspicious?

Well honestly it wasn't very hard. Setup a macro, looped it 5000 times, hit the macro button 8 times. Took all of a few minutes... It was much easier than doing every possible outcome with corresponding probability over a 7 day game period, which is what I did for the utilize every lynch scenario!

For anyone that wants to see the file, I have it at work. I can email it home and maybe attach it during my lunch break tomorrow. You can even see the "interesting stragegy" I alluded to in Post 63.

It involved the following:
Step 1) utilize the mafiascum random number generator to randomly select a player (saw it done once in Newbie 908, Nik modded that one)
Step 2) Player from Step 1 "randomly" selects a player to lynch. Prior to lynching that player, lynchee randomly picks a new player.
Step 3) If player lynched is townie, we can trust the randomly picked new player. If player lynched it scum, we can trust the original selected player selected from Step 1.
Step 4) Whoever the player is that we now trust from Step 3, they "randomly" pick someone to lynch. We lynch that player

D1 ends. Assuming scum will not randomly pick, but knowingly pick a townie, probability of at least one mafia dying D1 was around 30%. But the interesting fact was if no mafia died (we lost two townies) the conditional probability that a mafia was one that selected the killing. Can't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed fairly high.

Thought it could stem some interesting conversation D2. May have some "close to confirmed townies", if someone randomly selected a scum. And since D1 is usually a shot in the dark anyway, I thought "random" lynchings might be better than mafia swayed lynchings D1.

But I'm getting sidetracked. My point is, Elmo hit the nail on the head. Anyone that thinks I am crazy enough to do this much homework as a scum is just....well probably scum.

The file is there if anyone wants to request it. Just put the request in, and give me instructions how to attach a file in here...

[I Am Innocent]

RVS starts at 10:40pm and ends at 9:20 am the next day. I missed all the fun
I was about to post something useful but then I watch KaleiÐoscøpe's avatar for a while and forgot what.

If the town could win a mafia game half the time by lynching randomly every day, it would be no fun. Needless to say the numbers are going to be in favor of the mafia. Im a bit suprised it almost a 4:1 ratio to the scum, but it should be about that much. I dont see why we should even consider not lynching on day since otherwise we are reverting back to the 4:1 odds. That being said, thanks, though they didnt help much. (in reference to I am innocent's statistics).

Ben this was Mongoose's first official post of the game. (He had one other prior to the game officially starting)

Would you consider this filler posting Ben?

Also, please provide your top 3 suspects as soon as possible.

[I Am Innocent]

Iso'd everyone and found the following

I also see no reason to not use at least 70% of the day on the first lynch
we should definitely be looking to set up chainlynches through who defended who and who attacked who relating to flips

First sentence, agree with
Second sentence, disagree with

Dang double negatives...100% disagree with the first sentence. As a matter of fact, with the deadline two weeks from today, we need to get a move on.

Since both people on my wagon agree that I am town, I'll move my vote finally.

unvote IAI
vote Furcolow

This post where he is buddying up to Percy right after percy listed everyone from scummy to town first caught my attention.

I can get behind percy this game. His post feels really protown. I am another person who really likes the RVS. I disagree with his putting I Am Innocent in townreads, but not everyone is perfect.

Also, percy, why do you have 4 scumreads? There are 3 scum this game, not 4.
I want to vote with you, but I do not feel comfortable voting RedCoyote. I have read him as town.
I also don't like mongoose, even if I believe he is probably town, because he is voting me.

You have Dry-Fit in your scumreads, Percy, would you consider joining me on that wagon?

BTW, when does pretty sure = slight?

pretty sure you're barking up the wrong tree, nikanor
i have slight town reads on both of you

And then there is the guilt by association:

Look at these two posts from Oso, his last two of the game only 2 days apart:

...Like my vote where it is at so it stays there on Dry-fit for now.

...As much as it pains me to admit though. Dry-Fit does have a point about Furcolow but since Dry-fit dropped me so quickly in favor of an easier target, I'll stay with him.

I'm liking a Dry-fit/Furcolow pairing for 2/3rds of the scum team.
Basically FOS a scumbuddy:

..
Furculow's posts up to this point have been terrible. He asks people to tell him which wagon is best, jumps on one of the biggest wagons, and then suggests we name all the scum and set up chain lynches...

...@Furcolow. I ISO'd you and despite all the things I can see wrong in those posts, there is one thing I see that is right. This:

..
c. consider that i thought there might be roleblockers and medics and shit... i'm obviously a townie.
..

I won't go so far as to say obvious town but yeah. In the type of thinking that goes on in my world, one person misses a lot of things that three people wouldn't. In this case I would guess the mountainous set-up was discussed at least in passing, so that pretty much lets out a connection to anyone. I'll throw you into the pile of players that I don't want to lynch here in Phase 1 and I guess by using that reasoning, Jason and ImKingDavid are in that pile as well. Jason was already there and hadn't thought to much on IKD.

Dry-fit is the only definite player I'd like to see lynched, I'm slacking in this game more than I thought. I will come up with two others within the next day with cases or a reason why I couldn't. (<-Game reason there. I hope its not necessary to have to continue to plead real life for lack of activity.)

Went from 2/3 of the scum team to only Dry-Fit.

I thought the whole Dry-Fit argument was based on his FOS'ing a scumbuddy

.

If anyone wants to get an OSO wagon going, I'd be all for that too!!!

@ Kaleidoscope, please provide a 3rd suspect.

@ IKD, Locke, JasonT, and Mina, I'd like to know who your top 3 suspects are as well.

[I Am Innocent]

Read before you post please.

Oh, I always do. Want to know what I found, how about this:

I had ran across enough of a reason to think Furc may not be scum, invalidating my knee-jerk read of a connection between the them.

Your last post and the one below, the previous post...

....@Furcolow. I ISO'd you and despite all the things I can see wrong in those posts, there is one thing I see that is right. This:

..
c. consider that i thought there might be roleblockers and medics and shit... i'm obviously a townie.
..

I won't go so far as to say obvious town but yeah. In the type of thinking that goes on in my world, one person misses a lot of things that three people wouldn't. In this case I would guess the mountainous set-up was discussed at least in passing, so that pretty much lets out a connection to anyone. I'll throw you into the pile of players that I don't want to lynch here in Phase 1 and I guess by using that reasoning, Jason and ImKingDavid are in that pile as well. Jason was already there and hadn't thought to much on IKD.

Dry-fit is the only definite player I'd like to see lynched, I'm slacking in this game more than I thought. I will come up with two others within the next day with cases or a reason why I couldn't. (<-Game reason there. I hope its not necessary to have to continue to plead real life for lack of activity.)

Let me repeat what you said: ""]..."@Furcolow. I ISO'd you and despite all the things I can see wrong in those posts, there is one thing I see that is right."

So you only found one thing right about him, and many things wrong about him. But yet you in your last post said...(wait for it...) "I had ran across enough of a reason to think Furc may not be scum".

That my friends is a scummy contradiction right there. And though my guess is I am just unvoting one mafia to vote another, heck I'm gonna do it anyway.

unvote furcalow
vote Oso

PS - Be careful next time on who it actually is that you ask to "Read before you post please".

[I Am Innocent]

Question for the group, did the following strike a nerve with anyone?

Where are you getting day talk from?

If I was one of three scum in this set up I'd want some day talk. The amount of mislynches needed would make me cry, double day or not.

What bothered me was 1) the topic of day talk. Never even crossed my mind. And 2) the thought of the amount of lynches "would make" her cry. Another thing I never contemplated as a townie.

Did anyone else here think along the same lines as Sotty?

[I Am Innocent]

Getting a town read on Red and Dry Fit.

Right now it is a toss up between Jason and Furcalow, but I'm moving my vote to Furcalow because of the following two reasons:

1) Sotty's defense of Jason makes me wary that he is scum, or they both are scum
2) Did not like Furc's reasoning for his vote on Red, after declaring a town read on Red back on page 8. Factor in what I think was a mild protection of scum Oso on Furc, and I'm going back to guilty by association.

unvote
vote Furcalow

[I Am Innocent]

-My vote is far from opportunistic bandwagoning. It is my first vote switch this game, which is hardly opportunistic bandwagoning considering 90% of this game switched their votes more often. Yes, it is a vote to get a lynch, but frankly, what else are we doing here today? In the end, we need to lynch to win, and frankly, I rather see two lynches then one or none. Why? Because scum controls the nights, and we as town should control the days. The more we lynch, the more we control the game. What is happening now is that everyone is jumping all over the place, which is perfect for scum because they can better control the lynch situation that way.

Though I 100% agree that we need two lynches today and also agree that we need to get a move on, I disagree that we should all just pile on one wagon and be done with it already.

Chances of only having 1 wagon and that wagon being town: 81%

Chances of 4 wagons and at least one of them being scum: 61%

So having more wagons probably means we have a scum on the hook, which means this early in the game, that lines are probably being drawn. I already said I and not voting RC or Dryfit, but would vote Furcalow or Jason.

Then you got Ben who as RC pointed out, is trying to cut off the Furc wagon before it gets started.

And then there is you, who with the addition of this 4th wagon, pushes another lynch to L-4 and seems very urgent on getting this done.

KD, is it safe to say you are not in favor of a Furc or Jason lynch? If so, could you please explain why you have town reads on these two?

[I Am Innocent]

IAI:

What is so troublesome about my Jason defense?

I wonder if (one might even say doubt, that) scum Sotty would defend scum Jason this way this early on. Even with the number of mislynches that would make you cry if you were scum, you would have to know to cut bait this early on a scum partner who this much a liability...

So if that is the case, and Jason is scum, that would mean you were townie.

But then Townie Sotty would be honest on her evaluation of Jason's play, that this is typical of his townie behavior.

Let's just say that all this WIFOM has made me think twice about Jason = scum, so I am seeing where this fourth wagon takes us since I already hated the first two wagons...

[I Am Innocent]

unvote
vote: Dry-fit

Sorry dude, I get a town read on ya but we have to move this game forward to give us time for a 2nd lynch D1.

If he flips town, I hope we look at Oso's replacement hard. Here was his last post where he really analyzes the game (underlines added for emphasis).

If he flips scum, well then I suck and it's time I do a 180...

Which brings me back to my main suspect: Dry-fit.

He's pretty much the only one I am getting a definite scum read off of

.

Second choice would be Benmage. Not so much for what he has or hasn't posted but rather because the pattern he is currently showing is matching up almost exactly to the scum game I saw from him. Granted, it is hard to have a meta based on one game and he may act like that in all his games but there it is.

I did promise three but so far, I can't find a third person who I'd be willing to lynch today

.

And even Benmage is iffy

. It would be hard to justify lynching him just because he is exhibiting a familiar pattern.

[I Am Innocent]

unvote

reasons:
1) oso is getting replaced out
2) dry-fit promised content
3) i don't care if my wagon is 2nd highest or whatever

Your unvote is scummy. It wreaks of scum wanting to get off a townie wagon. Plus it delays D1 Lynch 2. We are already 8 days away from that deadline, you're unvote leaves even less time.

#3 is a joke. You have two votes yet. Don't act like a martyr.

There is such a big gap between the biggest wagon and the second that #1 is irrelevant too.

And #2, are we suppose to wait forever.

None of your reasons are solid. What is solid is the two things I mentioned in the first sentence.

We need to lynch people. Any 1) last minute swings to Furcalow? Or 2) do we lynch Dry Fit already? (I'd prefer #1, but not if it is going to slow us down any more...)

[I Am Innocent]

Furcolow is absolutely all over the place. Not just in the above post, but throughout this entire game. He's on full panic mode now and letting every emotion go that he can. He's a complete loose cannon. If you haven't paid as much attention to his posts throughout this game, you owe it to yourself to check him out in isolation. If he's town, he's too weak-willed and emotional. Every time I've looked the other way when someone has tried to appease everyone he could, I've regretted it. In general I've found that scum are more likely to placate in a manner similar to Fur.

Agreed, hence why I still pushed this wagon over dry fits. But a week from the D1 deadline, we need to act NOW.

Personally anyone not on one of these wagons needs to be looked over. Every other vote is just stalling this process IMO.

We don't need several days to use our second lynch. Three or four should suffice.

Three or four days? With 15 people left. No, it leaves scum the chance to lay low days one and two and then just hop on when we are in full panic mode as we approach the deadline. More is better folks. LET'S LYNCH TODAY.

The mafia will get one kill regardless. I'd rather use one lynch properly then have posts like IAI just made where he said that he thinks Dry-fit is town but he's content lynching a town read just for the opportunity to use the second lynch (this was a big red flag to me, by the way).

Content on a dry fit lynch? I waited until the 13th real life day of DAY 1 to move my vote to someone I have gotten a town read on. He was at L-2, and I was on the second biggest wagon that had a whopping THREE votes!

If both are town and I was scum, why take some a strong pro-town stance on Dry Fit in the 1st place.

Better yet, why move my vote at all, why not just stall until the deadline

. Wouldn't that make more sense.

Truth be told, Oso has been the biggest scum read for me this game. His lack of taking a stance fits a 13-3 mountainous setup perfectly, since 6 or 7 mislynches are going to be needed.

Everything I do, I do for a reason. This is twice now I said let's go with this lynch, but if it flips town, look at Oso.

First time was with myself. And the wagon disappeared quickly. Not only that, but a few shady characters suggested trying something different or looking at somebody else.

Second time was more recently. I said if Dry Fit goes, look at Oso who HAS ONLY ONE REAL SCUM READ, that being Dry Fit. Lo and behold, Furc moves his vote (townie playing like a newbie or scum falling for my trick?)

[I Am Innocent]

My bad guys. Oso, my apologies. Good job to all those who railed Dry Fit early on. I know I wasn't in that group.

I'll reread and get my new top 2 suspects asap.

[I Am Innocent]

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

[I Am Innocent]

IAI's theatrics throughout the game have him high on my list. I hate self votes; he undermined someone's towntell on him (based on the amount of effort he put into his stats) by mentioning his stats weren't difficult to produce; and he thought Dry fit was town but voted him anyway. I realize the DF vote was to ensure a lynch of any kind but I myself am opposed to lynching town reads under any circumstances. Part of IAIs defense against this is that would he (IAI) as scum...profess DF to be town.
He also has my predecessor as his biggest scum read and accuses him of not taking a stance. How can you have this opinion when Oso very clearly stated his thoughts and backed them up with his vote. Also...why is your vote on Percy? I don’t see you voicing any suspicions towards him prior to DF’s lynch.

I hate self votes too. I'll be happy to explain it more after the game (and it was for a town reason).

As for my stats, your accusation "by mentioning his stats weren't difficult to produce" wasn't totally accurate (see underlined):

Well honestly it wasn't very hard. Setup a macro, looped it 5000 times, hit the macro button 8 times. Took all of a few minutes...

It was much easier than doing every possible outcome with corresponding probability over a 7 day game period, which is what I did for the utilize every lynch scenario

!

Yes I thought Dry Fit was town up until post 415 (his lynch scene).

100% disagree with you on settling for a no lynch D1 rather than voting for someone you have a town read on. Town reads can be wrong. Proof is in my play D1. Plus, a lynch will get you answers and guide you to scum, even if one is right on the town read.

I did have your predecessor as my biggest scum read D1. He had ONE FRIGGIN SUSPECT. That lack of a stance hits my scumdar all the day long. In regards to this question "How can you have this opinion when Oso very clearly stated his thoughts and backed them up with his vote." I stick by with what I said. It is in scums interest to make as few stances as possible. That way they can maneuver around easier on town wagons without contradicting themselves as it gets closer to a deadline.

But when one person has ONE FRIGGIN SUSPECT, and that suspect dies and they are scum, that is either the craziest friggin bus job ever or one solid townie. I am now 99.9% convinced your slot is town. See Post 418.

As for your last question, "Also...why is your vote on Percy? I don’t see you voicing any suspicions towards him prior to DF’s lynch", as you can see in 418 & my next post 437, I reread the thread knowing Dry Fits allegiance and those players jumped out at me.

As for Percy specifically, I did not like 195 - 197. He lists Dry Fit as one of his suspects. Furcalow specifically asks him to join that wagon, and Percy responsd "As for Dry-Fit, I don't like his votes on Oso or on Jason, but I like my wagons better." I get the impression (hindsight anyway) that his listing of Dry Fit as scum wasn't really sincere...

Oh, and after 195-197, Percy continues to mention Dry Fit in his next five posts. Little obsessive about that wagon, don't ya think?

"Locke moved onto Dry-Fit before you explained your vote. Before that it was just "something different". So why ask us where it went? It's your wagon."
"Things are not adding up for me with Bemmage at all. I'm liking the Dry-fit wagon less because of him."
"Now you've switched to Dry-fit, dropping the RC wagon from three to two, and the only reason you give is because you "want to see a lynch"."
"Oh and I don't know if I mentioned this, but:
1. What did you like about the RC wagon?
2. Why is Dry-fit the superior choice for today?"
"I haven't had a chance to read the RC or Dry-fit wagons close enough to commit."

After his next post (16 words) does not include Dry-Fit, he continues again in his next/last two posts prior to the lynch:
"Nowhere near sold on Dry-fit case." (votes for Furcalow at this point, last ditch effort to save a partner?)
"Why should Dry-fit be lynched?"

Any other questions I can answer for you???

PS - My vote stays unless we are headed for a no lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP:

PS - My vote stays unless we are headed for a no lynch.

Why on earth would you think No Lynch is a possibility? This is very strange hedging.

hmmm missed this, not sure I like it.. why would we no lynch.. more to the point why would IAI be interested in voting No Lynch? IAI... what are the benefits of a no lynch over a lynch right now?

No, what I meant was say we are approaching the deadline, Percy has 6 votes, someone else has 7. I would move my vote rather than see a no lynch. I've already stated 100's of times that it is in town's benefit to lynch every time. If Percy wants to paint that as "hedging" play, so be it. I personally see it as more scummy to not move your vote and allow a no lynch to happen (see my explanation to having fitz in my previous post).

*****************************************

@Red, yes I see Sotty as town. During my reread, Sotty pushed real hard in defending jason, jason not getting lynched allowed Dry Fit to get lynched. And it doesn't look like both Sotty/Jason are scum. As a matter of fact, neither does.

Actually, the whole wagon on Dry Fit looks good/townie except for me and Furcalow. We were the two wavering, so I agree with Elmo, the lynch today should be off the wagon with the possible exceptions of me or Furcalow.

*****************************************

@Elmo, though I have not pushed for a lynch of Nikanor, I listed him in as my top 2. And Mina, who I have more of a null read, was on my list of non-town reads.

I think one of Percy/Red Coyote is scum, but not both. I think Percy asked that question to KD(?) but I'll answer on my opinion. I lean towards Percy as being the scum, but the fact that RC is the 2nd leading wagon is a good thing for town IMO.

[I Am Innocent]

Jason is my BFF...

I'm hurt...apparently that scummie nom meant nothing!!!

And Fitz, agree to disagree I suppose. I don't find you scummy but I can at least understand where you are coming from with your vote on me. But the deadline is coming up, are you willing to comprise to get a lynch?

Just looked at the votes, and unless I missed something, there has only been 2 new votes since Sunday morning, both by Fitz.

I think it is safe to say many of us feel strongly about our votes and aren't likely to move them except to ensure a lynch.

3rd Vote Count of D1 P2

Percy - 6 (Benmage, RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981, KaleiÐoscøpe)
RedCoyote - 3 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7)
Baby Spice - 2 (Nikanor, Percy)
Benmage - 1 (Baby Spice)
Sotty7 - 1 (Havingfitz)

Not Voting: (Mina, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 1 is Friday, November 12 at 12pm CST

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Mina, Lrdwhyt, Havingfitz, Baby Spice, you 4 should move your votes to a wagon of at least 2 already...from there we can see which is the next lowest wagon, etc...(especially since scum

Nik

Thor hinted at not voting until after the deadline)

[I Am Innocent]

Off topic filler, Newbie 1017 might be my best game yet. Figured out the first scum by post 52 (officially called him out/voted for him in 91). Finally lynched him Day 3 despite my vote being on him for most of D1/D2 (and me getting NK'd N2). But the remaining newbies finally listened to me and off'd him D3, and things are looking good for another townie win for me. Undefeated townie record still intact...

Carry on peeps. And remember, Vote for IAI (for best new player) in 2010!!!

[I Am Innocent]

Carry on peeps. And remember, Vote for IAI (for best new player) in 2010!!!

Self campaigning FTL.

[I Am Innocent]

My Top 2 still are Percy & Nikanor/Thor

Since I feel that one of Percy/RC is a scum, lynching Red is probably not the worst thing in the world, though Thor's vote for Red with Percy on the hook only reinforces my suspicion of those slots (Top 2).

Red, who do you think are the 2 scum? At L-1 and scum like Percy not on your wagon, I'd like to hear this first.

[I Am Innocent]

My Top 2 still are Percy & Nikanor/Thor

Is this connection based off of Nik's actions as well, or just mine?

Nik's actions as well.

Because if just mine - pffft.

If you say so. Oh, and nice vote for someone who admits to not reading pages 9 to 21...

Good job managing to proclaim a scum team and also condone the lynch of the day without voting it.

Nice attempt at trying to paint me in some kind of bad light. My post from this past Friday:

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

As you can see, I have not deviated from it whatsoever, except that Red seems a bit more townie now that you voted for him and not Percy....albeit without reading 12 pages in this thread...

Were you really townish between pages 9 and 21? Because I have no idea why you weren't among the potential lynch options of the day.

More attempt at trying to discredit me. Scummy.

Because I have no idea why you weren't among the potential lynch options of the day.

Let me guess, I'm in your top 2 now. OMGUS much?

[I Am Innocent]

The Percy/Benmage thing is starting to look more and more like a purely stylistic difference between them.

Nice way to try to defend your partner.

Unvote: Whoever I might be voting
Vote: Red Coyote

I see no reason why people shouldn't have to be begging and working for me if they want this vote somewhere else at this stage. Plus, I like the attention.

Very opportunistic vote here. The vote count prior to this was Red 5, Percy 4.

Top 2
Percy
Thor

vote: Percy

[I Am Innocent]

Vote Count prior to Nik replacing out, Thor replacing in

3rd Vote Count of D1 P2

Percy - 6 (Benmage, RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981, KaleiÐoscøpe)
RedCoyote - 3 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7)
Baby Spice - 2 (Nikanor, Percy)
Benmage - 1 (Baby Spice)
Sotty7 - 1 (Havingfitz)

Not Voting: (Mina, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 1 is Friday, November 12 at 12pm CST

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Post 525, Wednesday afternoon, Thor's first post (vote count has not changed).

Greetings all,

As noted above I (and my awesome beard) are replacing Nikanor (whose beard is, at best, acceptable). When I replace in I read the thread and will post up vague walls of commentary text. This I feel is helpful as it will 1. help establish your attitude towards me as a player and 2. will possibly remind you of something interesting that already happened.

I do promise you that this slot will never again need replacement. I'll also promise superior scumhuntng, but find that's harder to ensure. I seem to average about 7-10 pages each catching up session, so probably will manage to be caught up by the weekend sometime.

Special greetings to everyone I've played with before.

Very next post.

Fun fact, deadline is in ~48 hours.

Here is the opportunistic scum vote the next day after the wagon finally turns:

Unvote: Whoever I might be voting
Vote: Red Coyote

I see no reason why people shouldn't have to be begging and working for me if they want this vote somewhere else at this stage. Plus, I like the attention.

Next post has the vote count. Oh how conveniently things have turned for townie RC instead of Percy...

4th Vote Count of D1 P2

RedCoyote - 6 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7, Havingfitz, KaleiÐoscøpe, Thor665)
Percy - 4 (RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981)
Baby Spice - 2 (Percy, Mina)
Benmage - 1 (Baby Spice)
No lynch - 1 (Benmage)

Not Voting: (Mina, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 1 is Friday, November 12 at 12pm CST

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

And if I'd voted Percy would I have been opportunistically protecting my buddy RC?

No we call that bussing.

******************************

So let's recap. Nikanor's vote is stuck, he replaces out, Thor comes in, and does what any good scum should do around a deadline. Play the wait and see card...

Wagon leaves his teammate, takes off on the townie. Gives the ol' UNVOTE Whoever I'm voting, hahaha, and vote RC, despite only reading 9 pages. My vote can be bought tho, cause I like the attention, hahahaha. (not funny by the way).

******************************

Yeah, this game is over. Or should be over today, with obv scum team Percy/Thor.

[I Am Innocent]

What a fair and balanced view of the game, Hannity!

I'd be comically flailing around too if I was scum as badly caught as you are.

What's really comical is Percy listed 4 people he is sure is town, and 3 of those 4 are on his wagon right now...

[I Am Innocent]

What's really comical is Percy listed 4 people he is sure is town, and 3 of those 4 are on his wagon right now...

Just because you're town doesn't make you right. What is comical about it?

If the numbers were 11-2, townie, and 4 of the 13 people had voted, and all 4 voted me, and 3 of the 4 people I was sure were town were on that list, being phase 1 I'd put together my list of suspects/reasons why, and hope to have my distraction lynched/eliminated as quick as possible. But you are flailing. You are going off on people you say are townie, when you should be putting together solid cases against those you think are scum. You want to stay in this game....badly it seems. All this adds up to scum for me.

That is what I find comical about it.

[I Am Innocent]

So let's recap. Nikanor's vote is stuck, he replaces out, Thor comes in, and does what any good scum should do around a deadline. Play the wait and see card...

Wagon leaves his teammate, takes off on the townie. Gives the ol' UNVOTE Whoever I'm voting, hahaha, and vote RC, despite only reading 9 pages. My vote can be bought tho, cause I like the attention, hahahaha. (not funny by the way).

I might be able to swallow this narrative if you can sell me on the Percy case. You just lumped your vote back on him today with no elaboration. Change that?

Well there is Post 477 below from D1P2, then add on Percy's stalled wagon so RC's could take off, scum Thor protecting Percy with the RC 6th vote, that is mostly my case.

Post 477 in case you forgot it.

....As for your last question, "Also...why is your vote on Percy? I don’t see you voicing any suspicions towards him prior to DF’s lynch", as you can see in 418 & my next post 437, I reread the thread knowing Dry Fits allegiance and those players jumped out at me.

As for Percy specifically, I did not like 195 - 197. He lists Dry Fit as one of his suspects. Furcalow specifically asks him to join that wagon, and Percy responsd "As for Dry-Fit, I don't like his votes on Oso or on Jason, but I like my wagons better." I get the impression (hindsight anyway) that his listing of Dry Fit as scum wasn't really sincere...

Oh, and after 195-197, Percy continues to mention Dry Fit in his next five posts. Little obsessive about that wagon, don't ya think?

"Locke moved onto Dry-Fit before you explained your vote. Before that it was just "something different". So why ask us where it went? It's your wagon."
"Things are not adding up for me with Bemmage at all. I'm liking the Dry-fit wagon less because of him."
"Now you've switched to Dry-fit, dropping the RC wagon from three to two, and the only reason you give is because you "want to see a lynch"."
"Oh and I don't know if I mentioned this, but:
1. What did you like about the RC wagon?
2. Why is Dry-fit the superior choice for today?"
"I haven't had a chance to read the RC or Dry-fit wagons close enough to commit."

After his next post (16 words) does not include Dry-Fit, he continues again in his next/last two posts prior to the lynch:
"Nowhere near sold on Dry-fit case." (votes for Furcalow at this point, last ditch effort to save a partner?)
"Why should Dry-fit be lynched?"

Any other questions I can answer for you???

PS - My vote stays unless we are headed for a no lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

Thor's moving his vote from Baby Spice to RC killed the BS wagon.

Derp - I had thought Nika was on Percy.

No he never bussed his partner.

So...wait, IAI's theory is that I was scum because I didn't vote for my scumbuddy and instead lurked (hoping to get BS lynched? Hoping the Percy wagon would dissipate/go through without me?), and then later came in with defense of said scumbuddy, called him town, and voted the alternate big wagon.

If I'm a ballsy enough scum to call my scumbuddy town and vote the "obvious opposing town wagon" then what in my lurking was scummy at all? The fact that IAI is painting me as both lurky scum and ballsy buddy-defending scum suggests that all he's doing is taking whatever I do and deciding it's scummy. Case is terribad and so is the current Percy case. I'm okay with the Lrdwhyt case, but would rather lynch Baby Spice.

First of all, I called a Nik/Percy scum team early D1P2, right after my reread. Your actions just supported my suspicions.

And when did you defend Percy? I'd love to see the post. Cause the first time you mention Percy was not until RC's wagon got up to 5 votes (and Percy's got down to 4 votes). A safe time to defend your partner huh? Would only make sense since you were voting the competing wagon. Not so ballsy huh?

You are scum. Just admit it so we can vote you and Percy out and be done this game already.

[I Am Innocent]

I believe the case on me goes something like this:

1. Percy initially declared a scumread of Dry-fit, without giving solid reasons.
2. Later on, Percy says he doesn't like a Dry-fit lynch, and actively pushes against it.
3. Dry-fit was scum.

Later on, it was 2 posts later!!!

Post X, Percy: "Dry Fit is one of my 4 scum picks"
Post X+1, Furcalow: "Percy, will you join me on Dry Fit's wagon"
Post X+2, Percy: "Nah, I like my wagons better"

?????

Then you compare everything to Dry Fit over your next 5 posts. It seemed as his wagon gained steam, you became more and more obsessive about him being innocent.

[I Am Innocent]

Wow the second lynch in a row where the Percy wagon has stalled, his opposing wagon has gone to L-2, THOR VOTED TO MAKE IT L-1, leaving Percy the opportunity to hammer.

Someone please other than scum Thor unvote Lrdwht and get him to L-2. Feel free to keep your FOS on him.

I edited the below posts to put certain thoughts in juxtaposition;

Do you believe scum can be VIs?

-Are you Smurfing kidding me? Of course. Stop wasting my time.

Is Baby Spice town somehow? Please educate me.

Yeah. Read point 2 of Percy's case against BS. That is why BS is obv-

VI

-town.

So VI = town.
But scum can be VI?

I don't see how Baby Spice playing poorly means she is scum - it doesn't follow. Poor players appear as both alignments. Is there something deeper to BS as town?

the thing we need to look at, though, as a town is who can help us if they are town. Percy could. Could lrdwhyt? I don't believe so.

Oh man, that's...wait, were you serious? Furc, buddy, you probably don't want that can of worms opened.
Vote him for being scummy, not for being potentially less helpful if scum.

Also;

Unvote: Baby Spice
Vote: Lrdwhyt

I'd still rather string up BS first, but Lrdwhyt is pretty solid scum potential too. Plus the Percy wagon is really not that good. (and IAI is on it)

[I Am Innocent]

so you criticize me, then you sheep my vote thor?

I criticize your logic in a joking manner.
And I'm sheeping Mina (or actually just following suspicions I already stated - take your pick)

@IAI - Yes, I did get on a wagon that was a counterwagon to Percy - and I SAID I DID IT! Good catch.

Unvote, Vote: Babyspice

Do you have any idea how unfair it is to me to do this after IAI's newest theory about how I'm opportunistic vote hopping? I'm going to be listening to his terricases for an additional week now. That said...

Unvote: LrdWhyt
Vote: Babyspice

This should happen.

Why is that? Because you suspected RC (when it protected Percy), you suspect me (for calling you and Percy out), you apparently suspect LrdWhyt (when it protected Percy), and now with steam picking up on Baby Spice you suspect her.

How many scum do you think we have out there???

Top 2 right now Thor.

Oh, Percy is in hiding now that the pressure is off.

PS - Many props to KD, BM, and Jason. Your diligence in sticking with Percy is noted. Unfortunately we are going to have to start getting picked off at night as our votes start to carry more and more weight. Oh, and Benmage, I take back my village idiot accusations early in the game. Your antics are not how I'd prefer them, but you are a solid scumhunter none-the-less.

[I Am Innocent]

Why is that? Because you suspected RC (when it protected Percy), you suspect me (for calling you and Percy out), you apparently suspect LrdWhyt (when it protected Percy), and now with steam picking up on Baby Spice you suspect her.

How many scum do you think we have out there???

Top 2 right now Thor.

Yes...how dare I have a scumread from yesterday and then three people I'm willing to vote to lynch. Obvious scum is...obvious?

I thin there are 2 scum left because the setup is open, am I only ever allowed to have two suspects?

As for my top two suspects, I'll refer to myself from Thursday of last week;

I want to lynch either BabySpice or IAI today. They are both pretty dang scummy.

But yet instead of pushing for one of these lynches, you hop on the Percy-competing one of LrdWhyt? Why not try to get your top suspects out first???

[I Am Innocent]

But yet instead of pushing for one of these lynches, you hop on the Percy-competing one of LrdWhyt? Why not try to get your top suspects out first???

Because I knew there was no support for a lynch of you. (though I have been trying to build that groundswell)
Instead I went after Baby Spice.
When there was no support for that I changed to LrdWhyt and immediately when support for Baby Spice reappeared I went back to her (opportunistically as you put it).

Suspicions don't matter if you can't get a lynch to happen.

Can I have a list of your town reads Thor?

[I Am Innocent]

Can I have a list of your town reads Thor?

Elmo, furcolow, and jasonT are the obvious towns.
Sotty7, Benmage, Percy, and Locke, are town reads.
Mina and KaleiÐoscøpe are in a middle cloud wherein Mina is being felt more town probably because I find her playstyle amusing and Kscope is being felt more scum because he has embraced his hammer personality.

Why do you need this list of all my reads? (especially since half of them I'm pretty sure I've already explicitly stated in thread)

I like a nice concise list so I can reference as you go vote hopping. Thanks.

[I Am Innocent]

Do you still find my vote hopping scummy, and if so why?

You also never addressed my replies to you vis'a'vi how many suspects I had and how many scum I thought were in the game. Hot air, or was that going somewhere?

No it was all tied to vote hopping.

Since you have placed your first vote, there have been 5 wagons. 3 you have voted on and the other 2 were both for Percy on different days.

I wanted you to take a nice concise stance, which you did, and I'll watch how it develops over the course of the game as the people you vote for get lynched. I am curious to see how you will move on to the next set of players. 6 mislynches will need to happen in addition to 3 NKs to get our 11-2 down to 2-2. That is alot of mislynches. I look forward to seeing how you get there and how long you continue to avoid voting your teammate, assuming I am right about you and Percy.

[I Am Innocent]

Furc, pretty funny actually.

Not much has changed from this post. Ben has got me to come around somewhat on Baby Spice + the number of shady players that has voted for her D1P2 & D2 has softened me a bit. So I'd push her down to the other group of 3 and say I have a bigger gap between My Top 2 and other 4 suspects.

The other players continue to be town reads.

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

[I Am Innocent]

Furc, that vote was included in a quote from Day 1 Phase 2.

As for this day, my vote is already on Percy.

[I Am Innocent]

Day1 Phase 2 Percy Nikanor and Mina voted Baby Spice

Day2 Phase 1 Percy and Thor voted Baby Spice

Benmage is right, this stalling is wasting time for Phase 2 of Day 2

.

[I Am Innocent]

Who is stalling?

Everyone not voting Percy. And the people who haven't voted and the people who are on solo wagons.

***********

Here was Zach's last vote count:

4th Vote Count of D2 P1

Baby Spice - 4 (Percy, Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981)
Percy - 3 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe, Benmage)
Lrdwhyt - 3 (Mina, Locke Lamora, Baby Spice)
I Am Innocent - 1 (Furcolow)

Not Voting: (Elmo, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 2 is Monday, December 6 at 8am CST

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

I believe three changes have happened since then to make the new unofficial vote count:

Baby Spice - 4 (Percy, Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981)
Percy - 3 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe, Benmage)
Elmo - 2 (Mina, Furcolow)
Lrdwhyt - 1 (Locke Lamora)
Sotty7 - 1 (Baby Spice)

Not Voting: (Elmo, Lrdwhyt)

Elmo, Lrdwhyt, you need to get your votes on someone. And we go from there.

[I Am Innocent]

LrdWhyt has made on post since 11/12. He needs a prod.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP: on = one

[I Am Innocent]

I'd actually also love to see which of the two top wagons IAI would prefer to support presuming he can stop screaming about me and Percy for a few moments.

I'm actually pretty torn right now because Benmage's actions on Lrdwhyt were awesome and telling and I'm loving how he no longer looks rage tunneled. I'm super stoked about getting either of the top wagons lynched.

Considering I would rank Baby Spice and LrdWhyt the same as far as scumminess/towniness, I would probably vote Baby Spice just to incriminate the pair of you further.

I will give it another day or two to see if the Percy wagon can pick up steam again, otherwise I will move my vote to help ensure a lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

I'd actually also love to see which of the two top wagons IAI would prefer to support presuming he can stop screaming about me and Percy for a few moments.

I would probably vote Baby Spice just to incriminate the pair of you further.

So...you'd vote for BS who you believe is town because by doing so and getting a flip of town on BS it would incriminate me and Percy (presumabey because we're voting town - something town players never do I guess)?
Do these things make sense in your head before you type them?

Also, if you want the Percy wagon to come back shouldn't you, I dunno, actually bother to explain again why it's good or maybe why the BS/LW wagons are bad or something? You're seeming really passive aggressive about this.

Nice try scum. I know it is a long time ago, but this past Saturday I stated that you and Percy are most likely scum. I can be wrong. I am usually more wrong earlier in the game than later (i.e. Dry Fit town read up until his role was declared), so I listed MY NEXT FOUR SUSPECTS after the two of you.

Exact Quote from below: So I'd push her down to the other group of 3 and say I have a bigger gap between My Top 2 and other 4 suspects.

Her being BS. The other 3 including LrdWhyt, Furc, Mina.

Exact Quote from below:

The other players continue to be town reads

.

So BS & LrdWhyt are not town reads for me. But they are a heck of a lot less scummy than you and Percy. So if I can't take out one of you two, which appears to look more and more likely, I can take out someone from my next group of ????'s and if I am right about you two (which would make the other 4 town), then it will make your scuminess show even more.

Furc, pretty funny actually.

Not much has changed from this post. Ben has got me to come around somewhat on Baby Spice + the number of shady players that has voted for her D1P2 & D2 has softened me a bit. So I'd push her down to the other group of 3 and say I have a bigger gap between My Top 2 and other 4 suspects.

The other players continue to be town reads.

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

The real question is, why are you continuing trying to trap me and make me look bad? Is it because I have you pegged correctly?

PS - My favorite line of your post "a flip of town on BS it would incriminate me and Percy (presumabey because we're voting town -

something town players never do I guess

)?" Already building in your defense "in case" BS comes back town, huh? You know that Ben and I are prepared to do this, and you KNOW the results of this lynch are going to make the two of you look bad. But how could you possibly KNOW??? Hmmmm...

[I Am Innocent]

Baby Spice, last chance for self preservation. If you do not vote Percy in your next post, I vote for you to move you to L-1.

[I Am Innocent]

I have 1,500 exams still to mark, so I can't post for today.

BUT

I'm not happy lynching Baby without re-reading Lrdwhyt closely. Even with the Benmage deadline we still have a few days.

Unvote

This unvote is only to prevent a stupid hammer. I will almost certainly replace my vote after I've done my read. Give me 24 hours, would-be hammerers.

Big friggin surprise.

[I Am Innocent]

Thor, does your partner not want to be on a townie lynch or something? Or just on that townie lynch with his partner on it too?

Baby Spice, you had the chance to get the Percy wagon going. Sorry.

unvote
vote baby spice

[I Am Innocent]

Why don't you and I Am Innocent both try a thought experiment? Maybe close your eyes, pretend for a minute you've just received a PM from Zachrulez saying that Percy is an innocent child. Now reread Percy's ISO, knowing that he's confirmed town. See if you still suspect him, or if evidence for his innocence pops up. Even if you don't change your opinion, at least you'll know you're being objective.

Mina, I was

completely

wrong Day 1 Phase 1. I thought Oso was scum, Dry Fit was town.

So when the Day 1 Phase 2 started, I did a complete,

objective

reread with the only knowledge I had was my role, and Dry Fit's Scum role.

My conclusion, Nikanor and Percy were the likely scum team. Not much has changed that since I have read. It has actually been reinforced by what I have seen the last two phases.

I Am Innocent, it is taking me a lot of willpower not to be very mean right now. You are very lucky that I'm not Benmage.

Why you are voting for Baby Spice and not Lrdwhyt? Is it just because Benmage is voting for Baby Spice?

I understand why my tunneling can be frustrating, so if you need to mean to me, I can take it...

As for your direct question, I see both as equally scummy/townie. Meaning they fall in a group of 4 players that are not Percy/Thor that I do not feel like I have a town read on.

I think the math shows we have 6 mislynches before we lose, so if I cannot get a Percy/Thor lynch, the next best thing to do would be to take someone in that list of 4, and if I can at that same time make Percy/Thor look bad if a town flip occurs, all the better. And look how jumpy Percy got recently, so I think it is working!

[I Am Innocent]

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Reread Post 776. Never had a town read on Baby Spice.

My vote for her is because I do not see a lynch on my Top 2 (Percy/Thor), and I see BS as equally likely to be scum as Lrdwhyt, Mina, Furc. So instead of picking a name out of a hat from these 4 players, I threw caution to the wind and picked BS because if she flips town, more fire will be added to the fires of My Top 2, which is very good if I am right about them.

[I Am Innocent]

Forgot to answer Percy's question: I felt that the players who were backing it were the players who were always going to back it (ie. the likes of Benmage and K-Scope), so they were somewhat null. I find that cautious scum often wait for a certain level of support behind a player's lynch before they are willing to back it themselves. My hope was that someone who had previously been indifferent to your lynch would try to capitalise on the pressure and hop on.

This is all well and good if Percy is town. Does the lack of capitalization make you wonder otherwise?

[I Am Innocent]

The worst part is that now IAI looks town.

Any you too.

[I Am Innocent]

Any = And

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah scum has gotta be in Mina, EmpKing, or Percy group.

Thor, I owe you one, so I'll throw you a bone and

vote: EmpKing

[I Am Innocent]

I'm going to put the brakes on Mina's plan right now.

We lynch you, me, Elmo, Percy, and Kaleidoscope. Any problem with that?

That leaves jason, Sotty, IAI, Thor, Locke, Furcolow, Benmage.
Three will be NKed. Let's say (for the sake of argument) that Sotty, Locke and Thor are town and are NKed.
That would leave jason, IAI, Furcolow and Benmage.
Are you willing to bet that none of these players are scum? If not, can you guarantee that the three town amongst them would be able to, even with two lynches, secure the town a victory?

This here feels scummy.

[I Am Innocent]

I Am Innocent, since you found Percy's reaction to my plan scummy, does that mean you think the plan is a good one?

What I did not like about Percy's post was how thought out it was to the endgame. Kind of like, if these players made it to the end, would there be enough confusion still that mafia had a chance to win??? Who cares that far in advance except mafia who is down 11-1.

Empking still looks really scummy, but I just want to hear what Locke has to say before the day ends about Percy and Empking (since he might be dead tomorrow, and since I'm not 100% confident that people will follow through on lynching Percy eventually if the game doesn't end with this).

This also feels slightly scummy. I have a list of players who I think look really townie, but

at this point in the game

, I do not think town should be speculating on them.

To clarify, earlier this day, I asked Thor who he thought were town, so he had to take a stance at that point to either throw his partner (who I thought was Percy) in a town list and limit his wagon jumping options, or put him (Percy) on a possible scum list, which did not jive as he seemed to refuse to vote for him.

But the last scum has no teammates left. So at this point it only benefits us to list who we suspect.

For now, my list in probably the current order is: Percy, Empking, then you. After that, well I will just let the scum try to figure it out in case I wrong about the first three....

PS - My vote is on Empking currently because like the last two phases, Percy just seems unlynchable...

[I Am Innocent]

because hes town imo

And if he isn't, and he continues to survive to the endgame, guess who he is going to take with him.

How about just sticking with who you think are most likely scum right now.

[I Am Innocent]

percy isn't scum, and i'm tired of the wagons on him
i will say who i believe is town all i want
what are you going to do about it?

Thank you for playing this game. I was worried that I might get the LVP award, but now I know that you are going to win it in a landslide.

[I Am Innocent]

ha ha ha
pretty sure scum have that locked up, and i'm town, SO I DOUBT IT WILL BE ME

Take Percy to LyLo and vote the other player, and do not be so certain.

i've also been on both wagons of scum, so go #$%^ yourself

Yeah me too. Big whoop. You were as unsure as me so don't even go there. (Actually more unsure. I was the first to attack you when you unvoted Dry Fit!)

[I Am Innocent]

vote Percy

[I Am Innocent]

So right now my list of scums look like this:
1. sotty7 75% of being scum
2. percy 32% of being scum
3. I am Innocent 29% of being scum
4. thor 26% of being scum
5. jason 5%
6. benmage 4%
7. furcolow 4%
8. mina 2%

With 1 scum left, is there any reason why this does not add up to 100%?

[I Am Innocent]

Mina, any reason you do not have a vote out there?

[I Am Innocent]

Hey IAI, what's crackin'? Who are your other scum reads outside Percy?

Mina is my #2 suspect right now. Probably then Furc or Thor.

[I Am Innocent]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

D3, or ever? There are much better choices D3 than Ben, so I am willing to say there is very little chance you will swing my vote that way D3...

[I Am Innocent]

As for my vagueness, I plan to keep those I think are most townie in my back pocket for now. If scum is not one of the obvious players (Percy, Mina, Furc, etc), than they will need to have people in the final 4 with them on Day 5 that believe strongly that they are townie. So to keep us from getting "used" in that way, I suggest others to do as well.

One of my favorite games was one that I made it to the final 4, and I was the one Nk'd as I kept my thoughts on the other 3 tight to myself. The other two town players made the right call, we won, but had I made it to the Final 3, I would not have made the right choice...

[I Am Innocent]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

D3, or ever? There are much better choices D3 than Ben, so I am willing to say there is very little chance you will swing my vote that way D3...

I meant over all, not just D3.. he seems to think he is confirmed town and wont be lynched what so ever in this game.

There are 10 of us, 9 town. We all randomly have a 10% chance of being scum. To me only 1 player is confirmed town, that is me. 8 other town should feel the same way.

Other than that, I don't sweat how Ben thinks about himself. What I do sweat is who is the most likely scum (Top 2 or 3). And right now Ben is not on that list for me. Do you think he is a Top 2 or 3 suspect? If not, then I think you are wasting time. Let's try to come to a consensus on a solid pick and see what happens. Hopefully it is Percy and this game can end already.

**********
I saw Mina take a shot at me and KD (two people not voting for her ironically), and I want to reiterate what Ben said. We are 50 pages in. I know who I think is likely scum, and unless that list is exhausted and I am proven wrong, I am probably not going to waste tons of time rereading and defending and attacking players. Sorry all. If I am wrong and I survive to the end game, I will be happy to atone for my mistakes by giving the thread and this game its appropriate time and attention.

[I Am Innocent]

unvote Percy
vote Mina

[I Am Innocent]

vote Percy

Too big a gap between now my #1 suspect and the rest of my suspects to vote for anyone else.

[I Am Innocent]

Just a quick note, due to an serious family matter I may not be about too much today or tomorrow. Zach has been notified as to the full reasons that I do not wish to get into.

Yeah, these are just games. Go take care of your family matter and I hope all is okay...

[I Am Innocent]

Vote: Thor

Blargity-blarg, sorry Mina.

Percy is town, I'd love to see that wagon die. Kscope and Nul are my top reads for the last scum and I'm coming around to Elmo's replacement being all about busted scum wanting out of his current slot. I'd lynch the two of them tomorrow. Pretty much everyone else is also a town read as previously discussed but what the hell do I know.

Thor = IAI from page 3?

[I Am Innocent]

I personally would like to see the next vote be from Percy.

What say you Percy, who is scum?

[I Am Innocent]

Nul, your turn to vote.

[I Am Innocent]

@ mod, can you Prod Nul? One post in the last 6+ days is not enough.

@ Nul, if/when you do show up, I'd like to know who you are leaning towards. If it is not KD, please vote. If it is KD but you are not ready to hammer, I like to hear that too.

KD, you are the toughtest player to read this game, but I still think you are town. With you being a serious lynch candidate, mostly for your lack of a stance, please post your most scummy to most townie list and why. (This is not something I advocate the rest of the group doing, but with the lack of stance beyond Percy, it is something we need from KD if he has any chance of making it to the end game)

[I Am Innocent]

PS - I swear Percy has 9 lives. And that number is sure to go up if KD dies...

[I Am Innocent]

And I am out of suspects after this one.

This does not feel like the last scum to me. They would be setting up multiple lynches, not cornering themselves with one last suspect.

I'm town. You're out of suspects.

First of all, hi Equinox!

Second of all, this still seems more relevant to me...

For all of the phases following that, you guys couldn't get Percy lynched. That wagon is the most difficult wagon I've ever seen.

...than this:

Scum needs to manipulate 4 lynches; that's plenty intimidating for anyone. I don't think Percy would kill one of the few players who supported him.

Who should scum Percy have lynched? Me? The only other person constantly pushing his lynch. WIFOM imo.

KD died, and he strongly felt Percy should be the next lynch. Now that he is gone, I am the lone player "constantly" pushing it now. Jasont and Ben have been off and on it, but I don't think scum Percy would be scared of just me right now.

vote Percy

[I Am Innocent]

I think we are getting near time that I reread the thread...

Also thinking with 1 key NK left, nothing more than a Top 1 at this point. Counter reasons anyone?

[I Am Innocent]

Have done some rereading so far, want to look at a few specific days now.

I feel two other unnamed players are very likely town, and now it is just trying to get through the last three players to see who is most likely scum in the group.

I think in addition to everyone naming a Top 1 suspect, I think we should state the reasons why. Anyway, that will be what I am planning to do when I am ready to vote.

[I Am Innocent]

Really want to hear Equinox's thoughts. Also want to reread more D1 to see remaining players interactions with Dry Fit, and the couple of days before Baby Spice was lynched.

[I Am Innocent]

You're welcome.
Benmage, could you list who we are going to lynch? In order!

Why should this be done now vs after the last NK?

[I Am Innocent]

Reread the day/phase where Baby Spice was lynched. Starting on Post 791, things got interesting. Post 867 seemed the scummiest by far to me. The whole BS would be a great lynch, blah, blah, blah, but "I'd be more happy lynching you or Kaleidoscope at this point."

Explain now why you think so. I want explanations. Now.

Oops. Redundant statement is redundant.

Omigod. Rereading #838 freaks me out. It's just so...

reasonable

. And measured. My God. Is that...fair? Saying Furcolow's playing too well to be town?

Kaleidoscope: What is this kid, the king of one liners? Go read his iso. Seriously, go. Read it now. It is a fucking JOKE.
LrdWhyt: although kingdavid had me all over the radar, I am fairly sure this guy is lurking. He checks in once every 4-5 days, and we haven't heard from him in about 3. He has one good post, but it occurred a week ago.
BabySpice: I'm not even going to talk about this one

One of these things is not like the other...

Please elaborate. Why do you suspect Baby Spice? Also, why did you put her at L-1 before after saying you preferred the Lrdwhyt wagon?

Lastly, why didn't you mention Lrdwhyt's Elmo vote among your reasons to suspect him?

(I'm happy with how my Lrdwhyt and Elmo votes turned out)

Back to lurking!

HEY! I was referring more to Furcolow's and Lrdwhyt's reactions to the vote. I still haven't said what I thought of your defence.

The pressure's still on you, slacker!

Nice open coaching, Mina. Not.
Anyways, I'm not sure if you're town or not, but I am sure noone would lynch you unless you've openly pushed mislynches on VIs like Percy is trying to do.
The problem is, I have really liked Percy's play on this page. If he is anti-town, he is good at faking being town to a person like me. Very good. I am not going to vote him even if I'm apprehensive. That's how I feel about you, but opinions can change. I can read one of your posts and believe something you've said is anti-town and vote you (like I'm hating your play this page, but liked it a few pages ago).

Baby Spice is a good lynch because she has polarized us. I don't mind putting her at L-1 because, if she's town, it wouldn't bother me if she died. She is less helpful than most people here, and I don't know her well enough to get a proper read on how she will be aligned when we kill her ass (if we end up doing that.)... I don't know. I'm happy lynching either of them, but I'd be more happy lynching you or Kaleidoscope at this point.

Was it the 3rd vote on a slot? Sure, that was an old tell if he did it, but I make 3rd and 4th votes all the time as town so it is somewhat null. I am not sure if he is a wagoneer as scum, or if he is scum whatsoever, but like I've said I'm ok lynching him.

Pretty sure we are fine as a town, there is no need to spazz out. Let's lynch someone who has polarized us somewhat (BS, LrdWhyt's replacement, Percy, Kaleidoscope, Mina) and move on to the next phase.

Post 1420 (Equinox) would be a gutsy one to make by a scum who needs 3 mislynches.

And though I am going against it, Post 1377 (Thor) was also another one that wreaks of townie behavior (along with 1354 earlier).

The scummiest posts today:

Apologizing to Percy before the flip even happened.

sorry, percy, but we have another phase... and if you make it to lylo town will pretty much auto-lynch you if you're town
which would suck

Another post before Percy flips, just look at that last sentence where he suggests no lynching...very scummy.

i just found sotty7 being way more suspicious of thor than percy
i don't see why percy would have killed sotty
well, i can see a few reasons:
1) sotty is a good player
2) WIFOM

but the problem is that someone recently said something similar to "why would percy get rid of someone who won't lynch him and is town"... it just doesn't make sense.
After reading this, I expect a town flip.


I am town, but lynching someone like me or jason next cycle really wouldn't be that bad of an idea. I am fairly certain we can win this, but it could potentially be lylo tomorrow..

The problem is, though, with 6, the voting is going to be klunky.
5v1 -> lynch
4v1 -> nightkill
3v1 -> lynch
2v1 -> lylo

5v1 -> no lynch
5v1 -> night kill
4v1 -> no lynch
4v1 -> no lynch
4v1 -> nightkill
3v1 -> lynch
2v1 -> lynch (lylo)

i know this is a weird suggestion, but what if we just continue talking for deadlines upon deadlines, no lynching
i know we would lose a lynch in the bottom scenario, but we could gain over an extra month of deliberation

Here is the coverup in the very next post.

p.s. hoping percy flips scum tho

Buddying to Benmage, implying he is not going to scumhunt himself.

at this point, i'm just going to sheep benmage in all likelihood

Lame attempt at trying to get pressure on me. (Knows he needs 3 mislynches still???)

Make sense?

No.

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

IAI had 5 votes on him here
why wouldnt dryfit jump on that bandwagon?

Only 1 town read. With only 1 NK, 3+ town reads would box a player in.

Jason is my strongest town read.

unvote vote Thor

More buddying to Ben/lack of scumhunting

You're welcome.
Benmage, could you list who we are going to lynch? In order!

More lack of scumhunting, willingness to vote multiple players.

waiting on a wagon to vote.

[I Am Innocent]

Factor in Furc jumping off the Dry Fit wagon D1, only to hop back on when I and others chided him for that, it makes two times he likely hesitantly bussed a partner, I think I feel good about this vote.

vote Furcolow

[I Am Innocent]

Thor, please reread Posts 323 - 374 and tell me that Furc pushed hard on Dry Fit, I instead see him unvote him multiple times, once at L-1, pushing other lynches like RC.

Speaking of this, look at this post by jasonT. If we are right about Furc, major props on that call! (PS - look at how Furc responds to this post by jasonT, calls him a VI...)

Jason, give me your strongest scum and town reads in your next post. Just a couple will do, reasons why not expected but welcome.

Fur
Dry-fit
Baby Spice.

I feel Fur and Dry are clinging to 'my sumslip' and still wanting to push it. BS has come in making accusations of others and once again pushing cases that many are satisifed have been explained. As well as trying to push dirt onto players.

[I Am Innocent]

I would be willing to make a deal that we lynch you and that if game continues and furc lives to tomorrow I'll consider him as a potential suspect

along with everyone else

. Is that a deal?

What do you exactly mean by the underlined?

[I Am Innocent]

Post 364 (in response to 363 which I quoted above):

so you are attacking your attackers
that's totally town bro

i believe you're a VI honestly
town-vi, jason

[I Am Innocent]

Thor, please reread Posts 323 - 374 and tell me that Furc pushed hard on Dry Fit, I instead see him unvote him multiple times, once at L-1, pushing other lynches like RC.

Speaking of this, look at this post by jasonT. If we are right about Furc, major props on that call! (PS - look at how Furc responds to this post by jasonT, calls him a VI...)

1. I promise to do this sometime tomorrow and offer thoughts. I find his aggressive willingness to vote anyone to be a town tell though. (not a good play tell, but still )
2. I'm not sure i follow your point here. jasonT says he suspects furc and furc claims a town read on jason, what's the evidence in that for furc being scum?

Assuming Furc is scum, Jason calls out all 3 scum at that point. Furc immediately follows that up with a VI comment towards Jason. Sounds like an attempt to discredit Jason imo, who is onto all 3 scum right there...

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI - So you seriously think

all three scum were trying to push through a jason mislynch

with the logic of a weak scumslip (from two of them) and nothing much at all from the last? I'll admit if that's the scumteam it's not the most dangerous scum team ever, but I'm still pretty sure they understand the basic concept of not all pushing a single mislynch at the same time.

Bold portion is incorrect. mongoose was on the opposing side:

jason's thing about the cop seems kinda pointless. People make mistake and I dont think the fact that he didn't read the set up makes him scum. TBH I forgot the game had no PR's as well.

Thanks for doing that, I just haven't had the time.

Dry Fit - Pushing Jason Lynch
Mongoose - Defending Jason Lynch
Furc - Pushing anyone not named Furc.

Yeah that sounds about right.

[I Am Innocent]

My list from scummiest to towniest is:

Thor
Equinox
BenMage
IAI

I will not be voting Ben or myself today. If Ben is scum, hats off to him.

Looks like my win condition is down to 33% (Thor is the last scum in the group of you three). All of us want Thor out, and if he flips town, I will lose based on Ben's last post as he and Equinox will vote me out.

vote Thor

[I Am Innocent]

Good game all. That one took a lot out of me.

Thanks to Zach for a a great job of modding this game.

Thanks to Sotty for the invite. Sorry my play as townie was not anywhere as solid as my play in our scum game. You and Equinox are free to withdraw your noms...I won't be (too) offended!

I read the dead quicktopic, and it was nice to see everyone still interested. Here was one quote from Mina I would like to address: "But I really think town is going to lose. At least Equinox is trying, but the way everyone lazily sheeped her and flip-flopped on Furcolow was pathetic. They just hop onto the first persuasively formatted case."

Don't think that I lazily sheeped her and flip-flopped on Furcalow. I did a reread and provided some of my analsyis. Also had another reason for voting out Furc (see below).

I pretty much knew I was going to make it to the endgame. I thought Locke, Jason, Ben, Oso, and a few others would definitely be NK'd before me.

I admit to coasting for a little bit, but I did two rereads that were key in my mind.

The first after D1P1, and I had a list of 6(?) Townies that I pretty much stuck with the whole game (they all ended up being town). The one exception was Elmo to a bit, when he replaced out, then reneged, then replaced out. Felt a little off.

I got rid of my question marks and as we got closer, I realized I had enough confirmed townies (in my mind) to win the game.

The second reread had me 99% confident that jason and Ben were town, and as long as we stuck together we were guaranteed the win. Kind of hurt to see Ben's post that I was likely to go before Equinox....apparently he had a different plan than me.

I also think getting rid of Furc D4P2 was very important. Not only were his comments questionable right after the Percy lynch, but his volatility was not something we needed D5 if he was town.

Also the last thing was Equinox replacing in. I got to watch her closely when she was town and I was scum in a prior game, and I saw the same Equinox here. Made me feel quite a bit better about that slot.

So once again, good game all. Thanks for not lynching me D1!

[I Am Innocent]

My early post from D1P2.

I stuck by my town list. I don't think I ever voted any of them from this point on. As a matter of fact, I think KD was the only one to ever get lynched, a wagon I was not on.

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

[I Am Innocent]

Meh, 2 of 3 of the surviving scum team consented, and Dry Fit only ever posted once, so here;
Scum QT

Good stuff. Many props to you and Baby Spice for keeping that interesting!