Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Lrdwhyt]

First item of business: UNVOTE:

[Lrdwhyt]

Alright. I finally finished reading the thread..

On jasonT1981
Don't believe there's anyone still voting him for the alleged scumslip, but when I read his post, it was pretty clear to me the first time what he meant. Attacking him for poor word choice alone is dumb...though I did find him to be scummy early on when I read through the thread.

you know, this stat talk is really getting away from the actual objective of finding and lynching scum. I would suspect scum would be happy to drag discussion away from scum hunting in anyway possible maybe even perhaps lead the discussion away.....

Seems like an attempt to cast suspicion on I Am Innocent without outright stating it. Sneaky.

right now I believe I am Innocent could be scum... I'm happy with my vote on him.

he is pushing figures which distract from scum hunting

refusing to vote something he finds scummy because it is only 2nd page

pushing a false load on you to try and discredit you (Sotty)

his post 72 doesnt add up.. he calls you smart but in the same post says your logic doesnt add up.

He has posted at least 4 times out of ten posts and most seem almost gloating that the odds favor scum... almost like a scum hidden gloat post after hitting a cop or doc in the night

Sotty, can you expalin your last bit of your post please for those of us not in the know of Red?

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

you Italic seems to suggest you are familar with his playstyle.. I have never played with him so am curious to know what you mean.

2 is twisting his words. He didn't say he didn't want to vote someone he found scummy on day 2. He said that he didn't want to vote someone for what was probably poor play on day 2.

4 is a weak argument and doesn't make sense. IAI was saying that because Sotty was smart, she shouldn't have flawed logic, and suspected her for it.

5 is just stupid. That's the way the statistics are. Would you rather he lie?

you know Sotty, maybe we should try something different

unvote
vote:Elmo

Hes been very quick to defend people who look scummy, seems to know something we don't add to that his post in #81.. it looks like he is seriously buddying IAI

After making so many points against IAI, why are you so fast to switch?

After that, nothing of his struck me as particularly scummy. There are better votes than him.

I'm considering voting Dry, but I want to see him post some more first...

[Lrdwhyt]

Glad Dry-fit was a scum. I've been busy and unable to post the follow-up to my second post. Not so much now that it's the weekend. Here are my thoughts on a few people. Not much, and it only includes the first 10 pages or so because I got sort of tired of taking notes, but oh well.

Sotty's asking why IAI wasn't voting for someone he thought scummy wasn't an unreasonable request. I also agree with her on IAI overreacting to Benmage's (initially) stupid idea.

IAmInnocent mentions statistics a little too much.

So my first move was to make sure town understood that every lynch should be used, it is in our best interest. Next was to see if Benmage is a poor playing townie or opportunistic scum. So far

his play falls under the poor playing townie category

.

Okay. Why do you think that?

QFT. I'd like to know this as well considering I already corrected myself over a misinterpretation...so to suggest I'm playing poorly...is simply trying to undermine me.

Probably the way Ben attacked Percy for attacking Sotty for questioning me in Post 53. Ben has that newbie feel of someone trying so hard so early in the game, like he has everything all figured out and won't budge. All in all, I don't suspect scum to draw this much attention so early on.

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!
2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.

But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches

. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.

Yeah, this is a really scummy argument to deploy.

Elmo seems pretty decent.

RedCoyote's voting Nikanor for not pointing out his own error was a dumb vote. Also slightly suspicious for trying to say jason's was a scumslip, though it wasn't.

Don't have anything on Locke Lamora, strangely.

Mina is kind of scummy.

Not much on Furcolow, either.

Benmage doesn't seem too scummy. Don't really like how quickly he changed from tunneling IAI to voting Percy. Claiming to be reaction testing is kind of strange.

I agree that Oso (havingfitz) was overly dramatic on his RC accusation and didn't take into account that RC could've just misread something. Trying to defend himself from two votes is hardly suspicious, but trying to justify it by saying he had time is a little strange.

KaleiÐoscøpe needs to post more than just one-liners. Seriously. (I know she had like, one full post.)

mongoose's votes are pretty weak, and he did sort of weakly defend Dry-fit. Nothing he said was particularly scummy, though.

I'm considering voting Dry, but I want to see him post some more first...

Thats another one of his strikes...lack of content.

Which is not a scumtell.

I'll try to comment on more recent topics tomorrow (today).

[Lrdwhyt]

I do not understand Lrdwhyt's stance on I Am Innocent. Also,

Here are my thoughts on a few people. Not much, and it only includes the first 10 pages or so because I got sort of tired of taking notes, but oh well.

You also said, before:

Alright. I finally finished reading the thread..

This was on page 14.

So I don't understand why the analysis you went with in the last post focused on the first 10 pages, if you already had enough of an understanding of Dry-fit to say "I am considering voting Dry-fit but I want see him post more first". And you said you had finished reading up to page 14...?

Let's just say I'm looking forward to your next post

What that means is that I read the whole thread, but stopped taking notes after page 10 or so.

My 'next post' will actually be next post, tomorrow. I'm a bit behind. Will say that Percy doesn't seem all that scummy, though.

[Lrdwhyt]

Lrdwhyt (kingdavid's replacement) is also worth a look in. kingdavid's reaction to Nik's claim has my ears prick up (spoiler: he buys it), and when Lrdwhyt replaces in he goes after jason quite hard and doesn't commit either way to Dry-fit. I think there may very well be scum here.

I wasn't going after jason, I just thought to respond to something that I viewed as incorrect. And he's the first player on the player list. I was originally planning to make a similar post for every player, but as you can see, I sort of gave up on that.

RedCoyote's voting Nikanor for not pointing out his own error was a dumb vote.

You and Mina have been the only two players to make a big deal over something so trivial. I want to say it's indiciative of a sloppy skim through the game, but I actually think Mina is putting forth an honest effort into her analysis. I mean, you could've very easily put a little trollface at the end of that post. Although I genuinely didn't like Nikanor's start, it wasn't some big thing.

Big deal? Hardly, unless you count giving it a small mention counts as making a big deal over it. It was a dumb vote, why would

anyone

be suspicious for not correcting you?

LrdWhyt, on the other hand...seriously, just ISO him. His only content is 1) saying that the slip on, and 2) a huge list of opinions that seem to come from nowhere and consist of wishy-washy and vague one-liners. He doesn't have any solid opinions. On the off-chance I die tonight (stranger kills have been made), my last request is that you put serious pressure on him. Get him to explain those reads.

I won't claim to have made a solid entrance, but that's because I didn't have time to fully flesh out everything. And I still don't have time, but I'm still going to make at least one decent post today.

1) Meh, that was me correcting somebody, even if jason wasn't in danger of being lynched.
2) I thought it would be helpful if I at least mentioned my thoughts on a few people. Better than nothing, no?
3) Pressuring someone by voting them and telling them you're pressuring them doesn't really work. And pressuring me to get me to explain something is interesting. Why don't you just ask?

And none of that is scummy, just telltale of my general inactivity.

2) By this:

His only content is 1) saying that the slip on, and 2) a huge list of opinions that seem to come from nowhere and consist of wishy-washy and vague one-liners.

I meant this...actually, I'm not going to use quote tags, but turn this into a formal case.

Lrdwhyt's (oops, I've been mangling his name all game ) only content is

1) saying that jason's slip isn't important, but that jason is still scummy

2) then wasting his time by picking apart

one

of jason's posts and make a point-by-point defence of IAI (notable: one of jason's points is that

I am Innocent uses too many statistics to fake scumhunting

--unfortunately, doesn't acknowledge this either way), which ends by him out-of-the-blue saying that

nothing jason's done after that looks scummy

3) not posting opinions on any other player in the game, but adding a throwaway line that he's considering a DF vote, but

would like to see him post more

(*cough, cough* coaching, *cough*), and of course never reacting to any of DF's later posts

4) writing a huge list of fluffy opinions that seem to come from nowhere and consist of wishy-washy and vague unsubstantiated one-liners...one of which is an opinion that

IAI is scummy for overusing statistics

!

Major cognitive dissonance from point 2.

Actually, guys, look at LW's interactions with DF. Thor called Kscope on the same early fence-sitting on DF (and I've been guilty of the same thing to some extent), but it's ridiculous. He almost looks too much like DF's buddy to be his buddy. Goddammit, why did I put off this reread until now?

...You know, it would be so hilarious if we started a Lrdwhyt counterwagon with twenty-four hours left before the deadline.

Oh, just for fun, while I take my shower:

VOTE: Lrdwhyt

I predict chances of this working at 0.17%, but it's not like my vote is any more useful on Baby Spice.

1) I said it wasn't a slip at all. And I didn't say jason was scummy, only that he seemed scummy in the beginning.
2) Would've done it for everyone else, but gave up. False, he said IAI was using statistics to distract others from scumhunting, not using them to pretend he was. That's true. I would've likely voted for jason if I continued to see him as scummy scum. But I didn't.
3) Coaching? I don't believe the mafia has any access to day talk. He kind of died before I could post anything of substance about him. Although I'm kind of wondering why I was considering voting Dry-fit in the first place, as he doesn't seem so suspicious now that I look back.
4) Right, I thought it would help if I revealed my stance on all the players. I did not say that IAI was scummy for it, I mentioned it because I thought it was interesting.


As for today's lynch, I like Elmo's point on RedCoyote using all these large, yet meaningless words to accuse Furcolow. Kind of like what Oso was doing early on when he called RC out on his misreading.
RC's going after jason's slip doesn't make him look any better.

People seem to be voting Percy for his contradicting views on jason/Dry-fit. Reading his ISO, I'm not really seeing any contradictions, just a drastic change that could be attributed to a bussing attempt gone wrong. Or it could also be town. And I don't see any contradictions about his statements regarding jason.

For now, my vote would go to RedCoyote, but I want to see (again) him explain his Furcolow vote a little better. Don't really feel comfortable with lynching someone who hasn't had a chance to post at L-1, either.

[Lrdwhyt]

I doubt the lynch is going to shift to Percy, and I don't really feel safe waiting for the last person to hammer, so I think I'm going to VOTE: RedCoyote.

[Lrdwhyt]

Lrdwhyt

starts as IKD who does little really. His RVS unvote is normal for him, town or scum. The only real thing of note is his apparent belief of Nikanor's role cop claim. What I didn't realize until now is that Lrd only placed one vote. Red's hammer. He had plenty of time to put a vote out, especially since he claimed to have read the thread in his second post.

Yes, I have read the game. And my lack of vote means that I didn't have anyone to vote at the time (someone I found to be scum).

Also in the above linked post is a case on Jason that has Lrd end with this conclusion:

After that, nothing of his struck me as particularly scummy. There are better votes than him.

I'm considering voting Dry, but I want to see him post some more first...

Really? If he isn't that scummy why spend all the post questioning him when you could have been doing something more productive? Also the tacked on Dry-Fit after thought looks like a scum buddy validating his wagon without a vote. Nice.

The rest of his posts aren't that bad really, but it is mostly him defending himself. There is a lack of any real scum hunting here. Leaning scum.

As I said, I was going to "question" everyone as my entrance, but I gave up. And just because I don't think he's not particularly scummy doesn't mean that I think he's town.

The Case also constitutes Percy:
4. Attacking easy targets (Furc/BS)
5. Fabricated lie/Continuous undermining of obvious town-Benmage
6. Flails around attacking town-reads over scum hunting.

4. That is true, but it doesn't really incriminate him.
5. You aren't confirmed town at all, honestly. I don't see his doing so as a scum move, just someone tired of your dumb assertions.
6. What are you talking about? I don't see him scumhunting much in recent posts, but I only see Percy attacking

your

townread. I guess someone's bitter.
1-3 does make sense for Percy to do if he were scum, but the square root of a positive number has two answers.

1. The slip where BS criticises jason's vote on Elmo as being "on town",
2. Her Benmage case, especially after the DF flip,
3. Her most recent post is some powerful cognitive dissonance. If you really thought this:

Baby Spice wrote:
Sotty, Mina. You both seem to be having a go at each other, but are both voting the same player. It makes me think that one of you is faking the discussion/arguement, which is scummy, whilst buddying up to them, which is also scummy. Or that one of you is bussing hard and trying to use the other as cover.

...why would you then join the Sotty/Mina wagon on Lrd, without stating any reasons?

1. It could be a slip, or just poorly chosen words. Did she ever explain herself?
2. What's wrong with her Benmage case?
3. Yes, this looks like a thoughtless bandwagon vote, which is strange because she's accusing the two people on me.

Not a very compelling case, I'd say.

Anyway, for today's lynch, I don't have any solid ideas so as to who's scum, but in my readthrough, past-me did seem to find Mina really scummy. I'll check her out later, ignoring the fact that past-me also thought Dry-fit was suspicious when current-me thinks no such thing, even after his flip.

I had quite a big post written up looking at Baby Spice, Lrdwhyt and Percy, then MS logged me out when I went to preview it and I lost the whole lot, so now I want to break my computer. The crux of it was that Lrd is the scummiest on a reread, particularly for focussing on someone he didn't think was that scummy in his first post (Jason) and then saying that RC was scummy for trying to paint Jason's daycop response as a slip when he totally ignored the likes of Dry-fit making a big deal of it at the time.

I assume you're referring to this:

RedCoyote's voting Nikanor for not pointing out his own error was a dumb vote. Also slightly suspicious for trying to say jason's was a scumslip, though it wasn't.

This post was made after Dry-fit had already been lynched, so there's not really much point in saying that he was slightly scummy.

[Lrdwhyt]

I think I retract my statement on Mina's scumminess. Don't know what I was thinking.

(Havingfitz, Locke Lamora, Benmage, KaleiÐoscøpe, Sotty7, Elmo, I Am Innocent, Furcolow, JasonT1981)

with this argument, you need to take into consideration
1) scum can bus
2) i am not perfect
3) i am not saying this argument is the be-all-end-all

These people were not on the dry-fit wagon in which we lynched scum:

Percy - I read him as town. I haven't seen him play as scum, though. He feels pro-town to me.
Nikanor - I read him as town as well. I feel like he requires a lot of evidence to vote/unvote/change votes.
RedCoyote - I definitely read him as dry-fit's scumbuddy, hence my vote.
Mina - I will have a better read on her shortly
Lrdwhyt - KingDavid made the same mistake I made. town.
Baby Spice - I guess that leaves babyspice as scum? null read from me


The only difference between the people on Percy's wagon, and the people on dry-fits, are that a few aren't on there (myself, for instance), and redcoyote IS.

RedCoyote, what makes you so sure of percy, yet you wouldn't vote dry-fit? why why why

the thing we need to look at, though, as a town is who can help us if they are town. Percy could. Could lrdwhyt? I don't believe so.

VOTE: lrdwhyt
2 wagons are a go
houston, we have liftoff

It doesn't matter whether you think I'm good or not, your voting someone you think is town is suspicious. And it's not like you thought I had changed that much, this looks like a bandwagon vote with a dumb excuse.

This post was made after Dry-fit had already been lynched, so there's not really much point in saying that he was slightly scummy.

That was one of the posts I was referring to. There's another comment that refers to it before RC gets lynched, where you say:

RC's going after jason's slip doesn't make him look any better.

My point is, at the time of your first catch-up post where you talk about Jason, you say you've read the game. You've obviously familiarised yourself with Jason's posts, and you know enough to say that he's not that scummy and that there are better lynches out there, mentioning a DF vote without saying why you'd want to vote him. You don't vote, you don't focus on players who you think are scummy, and you don't comment on the players who jumped on Jason for supposedly making a slip - you just say it's 'dumb'. By the time we're nearing the RC lynch, this 'dumb' attack on Jason has turned into one of your reasons for backing his lynch. If that's your attitude to those who jumped on the slip, and DF was one of the most blatant attackers of Jason for this reason, why did you neither spend your first post looking at DF's play, nor vote him for doing something that you later state is scummy, yet still felt the need to include him in a brief passing note?

I didn't vote him because, as I had stated, I wanted to give him a chance to get on and respond to the accusations before doing such a thing. And I don't necessarily feel that those who thought jason had scumslipped were suspicious - just that they were wrong. It is more likely for scum to jump on such a thing than town. Also, I wasn't really backing his lynch - I thought him a better lynch than Percy.

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

[Lrdwhyt]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

[Lrdwhyt]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

You're piggybacking on others people working merely saying you "like" the case.

State the case for me. Whats not to understand? I'm not asking anything difficult.

No, I did state why I liked it.

It's on page 29 if you want to read it.

[Lrdwhyt]

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

You're piggybacking on others people working merely saying you "like" the case.

State the case for me. Whats not to understand? I'm not asking anything difficult.

No, I did state why I liked it.

It's on page 29 if you want to read it.

You didnt post on pg 29....I am asking YOUUUUUU to restalte the case. Why are you being so difficult? No reason to be.

Use quotes, bullets, summarization...anything but do not stall again.

Difficult what? Stall what? I don't see why that would be necessary. I can read English, my ability to restate the case has nothing to do with my affiliation.

[Lrdwhyt]

Difficult what? Stall what? I don't see why that would be necessary. I can read English, my ability to restate the case has nothing to do with my affiliation.

Of course it does. Scum piggyback onto others peoples work all the time.

I doubt you even understand the case your fond of.

You not stating why your willing to lynch Elmo, means I can't illustrate why your reasoning is wrong.

MOD So much for this game being an IC.

Noob policy lynch commence:

Unvote Vote Lrdwhyt

You didn't post for forever, and comeback and piggyback onto others work. Insanely scummy. I don't believe you have a grasp on this game. And you couldn't prove otherwise.

No, I'm pretty sure I already stated why. Why don't you read the first post of mine you quoted?

[Lrdwhyt]

Infact when you quit stalling and try being town and helpful go ahead and illustrate (maybe quotes) where he has uninteresting comments and lack of a stance.

I want specifics.

It wouldn't make sense for me to stall as scum or town, unless the case was completely invalid and I realised too late. Otherwise, unless I'm incapable of speaking English properly, it's not that difficult to summarise a few paragraphs. And I'd be avoiding it, not trying to stall it.

It sounds like you didn't read it, but do you think the case is invalid?

Here you go:

It depends precisely what you mean by scummy. For example:

2. Her Benmage case, especially after the DF flip,

2. LOL This is why I have a town read on her.

HEY THOR!!!!

This is the reason why BS is both town and an easy mislynch. Noone but a huge dumbass would attack me after the DF lynch.

The point being that, if BS were scum, she would realise that she has no realistic chance of getting Benmage lynched, and wouldn't attack him; the only case in which she would do that is if she genuinely thought he was scum, where she has to

try

regardless or lose the game. As such, he doesn't think it's scummy.

Now, there may be other things that are "really" scummy, but I haven't seen them, albeit I haven't reread BS yet. (I have my own view, but it's uninteresting.)

Not answering Mina's questions and you can't really illustrate a lack of stance unless you quote his entire ISO.