Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[UncertainKitten]

Vote Faraday

HE KNOWS WHO THE SCUM ARE! AND WON'T TELL US!? You know who benefits from THAT!? THE SCUM :O!

[UncertainKitten]

Because Vi is a terrible wagon and shouldn't happen. FARADAY OR...INCONVENIENCE!!!

[UncertainKitten]

Also, apparently we can only win in the past tense in this game!

Won Condition: You win when the scum are dead and at least one town aligned player is left alive

Best Won Con ever!

FIX'D

[UncertainKitten]

@PZ: Because Vi is a lot more valuable than 50% of you put together, as town or scum. She will not be lynched today. I'm fine with lynching her any day after though.

Faraday is still an amazing lynch.

[UncertainKitten]

@PZ: Well, you see, someone has to *say* she won't be lynched today or the magic doesn't work. And even if she's scum we can find her stupider scum buddies that out her as scum first. And Faraday being the mod has no bearing on his scumminess.

Faraday, you have failed to count my vote for you!

@Spy: You're Bad At Mafia, right? GO FOR IT!!!

@Vi: That was some heavenly humor right there . The game started a few days too late for these kinds of jokes though .

Unvote, Vote Papa Zito

He knows better.

Vi has a point on vezok.

[UncertainKitten]

Knows better than to question SP as if he's going to get an answer.

[UncertainKitten]

@PZ: My plan is to catch people pretending to be pro town by looking like they are asking constructive questions when in reality it's all fluff.

You've been doing a lot of that this game.

[UncertainKitten]

So...would you like me to prove I've done the same thing with Glork

as town

?

Regarding the whole "buddying" thing?

And...the rest of your case can't even be taken seriously.

So here is my response.

Hi Fate. How's it going ^-^?

[UncertainKitten]

I'm not strawmanning Papa Zito. The problem with your case is it's not even wrong

It's tripe. There's nothing to defend because you haven't SAID anything that needs to be defended against.

...and you continue to prove that you are just a damned saber rattler without a damn bit of worth in your entire, completely unnecessary and quite frankly annoying ass walls.

And did I actually miss someone asking SP to explain himself? Lemme look into that. Realize I tend to have to catch up several pages and could potentially miss things. ESPECIALLY if they are nestled in a wall of text (not sure if the alleged questioning was or not)

And Fate completely denies the existence of bussing.

Awesomesauce.

You know, do you all HAVE to fucking quote stripe? I've been skipping about half of what you say because you can't post in a MEANINGFUL format.

I need to read AGM and VV because I do believe there might be something between the two of them (not literally connecting them, I mean that...yeah)

So, with nothing else to respond to I'm going to read those two.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I'll admit VV uses two too many sentences to tell Fate his scumtells are bad and he should feel bad, for the ISO 1 thing.

VV is correct about how you misinterpretted ISO 3.

OH, so THAT'S where that was. Yeah, Fate, good fucking going. I was in fucking BED when he said that. U R TEH B3ZT SKUMHUNTARD EVAR!!!!

A++ FATE!

I SHOULD JUST ROLL OVER AND DIE NOW WITH HIS AMAZING FUCKING POWERS OF OBSERVATION :VVVVVVVVV!

Or not.

That said why the hell would you ever ask that VV? Do you REALLY think that SP is going to explain, or did you think it'd be nice to tack something on to the end of your post that wasn't defending yourself so you could look proactive?

(And this is all ISO 4 :S)

ISO 5: Why Rhinox and not me? I responded similarly with lol Fate.

ISO 6: Word of advice VV, and no, I'm not good about this either. Why are you responding to points that have no response? When he's claiming you're sweating bullets, why bother defending it? It just adds unnecessary baggage to your posting, which is already making this a trial. Neither of you have said anything that has bearing on the game in the "sweating bullets/failed to read me" exchange. It proves nothing.

[[citation needed]] on the nice and slow play thing.

Not saying you're lying, just saying I want you to provide examples from past games and that I'm too lazy to use our own history .

VV: So why is Fate guilty of

Yes, argue that doing town things is an attempt to look town.

And I'm not for voting PZ?

ISO 10: Why do you not link the wikis then? About the statistics and theories? To be fair, the burden of proof DOES lie on you, and it looks more like you are trying to cover your ass if you aren't willing to provide said wikis.

Why is everyone that votes you opportunistic, VV?

/me sighs.

OK, here's my conclusion right now. VV is acting like I act when I'm very frustrated town because, as he put it, some moron is screaming in my face.

(Hence why I'm doing my best to not get drawn into the whirling caps of Fate myself)

I still want answers to my questions, but I also want a summary of the case on VV so perhaps I can better understand it? And I'll read AGM now.

[UncertainKitten]

...wow, that is impressive.

AGM: Why are you voting VV? In your own words, and not "What Fate said"

Please, produce your own original case.

If it weren't for the fact that according to VV, everyone that votes VV is opportunistic, I'd say you were being opportunistic. But I'm sure you would love to dispel this impression.

At any rate there's nothing else to discuss in the ISO. AGM has barely been here.

[UncertainKitten]

No. No. He really didn't. And if he did I missed it in all the stupid. Again, succinct case. Now.

[UncertainKitten]

@Fate: I read VV's posts. Since he so..."helpfully" quoted you, I've read most of your case as a result. So don't even try that shit.

If you'd like to tell me what's wrong with VV in a succinct way, I'd certainly appreciate it ^-^.

See, what's great about Fate accusing me of "strawmanning" is that he's the one actually strawmanning.

The exact verbiage is that PZ is pretending to do pro town things.

You know why?

Because they look nice, but don't actually accomplish any pro town goal whatsoever

PZ has not done jack SHIT pro town, and I have no idea why you insist he does. But, I've gotten the impression you're a dumbass from your first post, so I really shouldn't expect good logic from you.

And no, you can ask Socio questions. It's just certain questions and the way those questions are phrased will never get a reply. And PZ has played enough with Socio to know better. So has VV, I believe.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: That what you

said

was pretty dumbass, rather. Attack the argument, not the person, etc. etc.

Ah, cut by Fate:

Yes, but he's actively being useless, if that makes sense. And who says Zito isn't dying today? We're TWO FUCKING DAYS into D1. So, again, don't try this shit on me. I actually fucking think and won't be bullied by a saber rattler.

Ok.

1: I did actually see this
2: I thought he justified it just fine, though admittedly I still want those meta examples of reserving judgement before I let him go on this point.
3: OK, good. To clarify, how does him lying about his meta assist him as scum? Serious question, not trying to be all tricksy. I want to know what you see scum intent wise here.
4: That made me frown as well, but unfortunately the policy lynch game isn't often proposed by scum, at least in my experience. The backtracking I *could* understand though.
5: Oooh...now we ARE getting somewhere. This is an interesting contradiction implying that the facts of the situation can change to make VV look town (according to VV)
6: Link "I know I'm not scum with Vi this game". I want context as soon as possible. This could be very serious.
7: Seven is also prime. Prime numbers are good things.

Nearly convinced here. Answer my questions satisfactorily and I'll switch to VV.

I still want AGM to answer what he saw at the time of his vote.

Cut by Fate again: ...What the hell I completely missed the Rhinox thing.

Unvote, Vote VV

If you could still answer my questions I'd appreciate it for insight.

[UncertainKitten]

L-2, btw, assuming I have the ability to count.

[UncertainKitten]

As an aside you look a lot more like you know what you're doing when you post cases like that. I understand the whole reactions game with the flaming capital letters of doom, but some people respond better to reason. I actually didn't think you'd give me what I wanted, and am quite pleased you did.

Spy: Hmm...hard choice. Out of conceit I'd shoot Papa Zito since VV seems well on his way to being lynched.

Would it be more helpful if I told you who I

wouldn't

shoot? Because as it stands I'm getting more town reads than scum reads, and I haven't filled out a set yet.

Fate:

Oh wow, that IS really awkwardly phrased on 6. Why say "in this game" and such?
And 3 actually works *really well* with point 5.
4 could be specific policy, but the way he handled it does read a lot like...well, what you said.

Thank you ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Works for me. Admittedly it's probably obvious where I'm leaning where I lean at all. I have a cluster of neutrals, a couple strong scum and a few strong town, but nothing really *lukewarm* that still leans in a direction.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah. I still need answers from AGM and vezok. Just cause Fate is being awesome does NOT mean you get away without thinking!!!

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah...that...why would you ever do that vezok? And why do you refuse to answer my question?

[UncertainKitten]

VV, answer me this. Fate has a meta for the MASSIVE CAPITAL LETTERS WALLS OF FUCKING TEXT MY WAY OR THE FUCKING HIGHWAY play that we all know and...um...know.

If he were scum, he could EASILY have continued this FIRE AND BRIMSTONE DISINTIGRATE YOU UNDER THE WEIGHT OF LETTERS PLAY without anyone calling him out on it.

So, if he is scum, why did he give me a VERY reasonable point by point, some meta links, and overall a decent case when he could have stuck to yelling about it? What's the scum intent?

[UncertainKitten]

So, basically, you are advocating the vigilante vig someone who you think has a decent probability of being town. Somehow this is the most effective use of town resources, rather than vigging scum.

Do you even think about what you say or just hope people will stop reading at some point?

[UncertainKitten]

Thanks Fate. I'm not sure I entirely agree on the Rhinox points but it's both convenient that Rhinox has disappeared and that VV is only spending a line or two on him every few posts...while still voting him, and fighting with SpyreX who you'd think he had a more solid "scum read" on.

[UncertainKitten]

Rather, I felt he explained a couple things. But they were so minor they don't seriously detract from your case. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[UncertainKitten]

Because vezok needs either a bullet in his head or a noose around his neck. But VV needs it first.

[UncertainKitten]

Or that, but I reasserted mine several times.

Please, tell me why you are voting VV, and not just "what Fate said"

Explain, specifically, yourself.

[UncertainKitten]

I can think of one claim, actually. I'm almost tempted to say it, just to see if he'll take it because it'd still be a pretty good deal.

[UncertainKitten]

But it's really a beneficial claim for all involved. I WANT him to make this claim ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Huh. I was hoping he'd claim mason.

Well, whatevs, waiting for Vi.

[UncertainKitten]

Thoughts on what? Your claim? Same as socios:

Scums have fake claims, so I'll probably toss all the names into a random number generator, make the scum the same evll characters and give them 3 random fake claims.

Thoughts on your scum picks? It quite honestly sounds like desperate finger pointing because you have no idea who you can plausibly accuse, so you want to accuse those on your wagon since thats ~*~easy~*~.

OH! PZs stunning lack of contribution makes me frown, if that helps. AGM's refusal to answer any question I asked him also makes me frown. So does vezok's refusal.

Any other thoughts you want?

[UncertainKitten]

@VV: All your cases are shit besides the one on AGM, which I agree with. They aren't cases, they're you stamping your feet and insisting you are right.

There's nothing THERE.

And if you weren't so INSISTENT on telling us because you claimed VT you're obv town, MAYBE I'd have taken it into consideration. But clearly you know the logic so it just becomes so much WIFOM.

[UncertainKitten]

The thing about the "Why would a scum claim VT Day 1" is it only works if the person in question doesn't KNOW about it. Then suddenly claiming VT becomes a viable option to avoid lynch, which is, number for number, BETTER than outting a power role. Even if it's borrowed time, the more time you spend not getting lynched is the more time spent getting townies lynched.

Since you've made SUCH a huge issue of it, it's shit now. Good going Vasu scum.

[UncertainKitten]

I never said a VT claiming VT knowing about the theory is scum. I'm saying that you claiming VT does not reverse the scum read I have on you. And that in your case claiming VT is WIFOM, NOT a factor that would mitigate a scum read. But thanks for the hay, I was thinking of doing a pony girl scene later ^-^.

Also, metas change. I try not to rely on them, though I'm sure I've slipped on that. Generally if you can't suss out intent on a player's own behavior in a specific game, you're doing it wrong.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, no. I'll take the cut in style points - VuVuko has since claimed anyway - and let it be until I have a chance to read this properly.

We should probably wait for this.

[UncertainKitten]

There is a such thing as too much information m_o. Day one can be a two edged sword, rather, a long one.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree, but I've also gotten used to shorter D1s and rather been enjoying them.

[UncertainKitten]

@AGM: Really? I thought SpyreX explained his. Can you link the post where you perceive he hadn't?

Anyway, your answer is reassuring.

more info = more things to call scummy.

You should be lynched for this right fucking here, magnus. That's about the scummiest damn thing I've seen said in this game so far.

@Fate: What the fuck why do we agree!?

@m_o: Isn't that convenient. Because you see, Fate posted some REALLY solid not noisified summaries of his case. TWICE even. But you so conveniently ignore these...why?

@m_o: Sure it would. But it really has

no fucking bearing on the current situation

. (Re: the innocent child thing which came out of nowhere)

@Fate: DAMMIT! QUIT DOING THAT >=[!

...and then m_o posts a fucking list of irrelevance. WONDERFUL!

Yanno what? Fuck this shit.

Unvote, Vote Magnus_orion

Congrats Magnus. You may have saved VV for another day. That's what you wanted, wasn't it?

There's not a whole lot else to say. Even ignoring the VV behavior a lot of mango's "views" this game are WAY more beneficial to scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@m_o: It's the attitude you take. It's not a "more information to figure out who is scum", your language CLEARLY indicates you are interesting in trying to use quantity over quality to try to pin someone to the ground that's innocent. I don't know how to stay what I mean more elegantly since that doesn't feel quite right but...ugh, that statement just exuded "This is why scum want longer days, and I'm scum who wants a longer day"

I have no opinion on Rhinox since he hasn't posted JACK SHIT. What he has posted has been unimpressive, but there have been comparatively worse people, IMO.

I will certainly be assessing him closely when he DOES post.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, yay, a wall of fail. So far I only saw the vote at the end. I can't WAIT to rip this apart ^-^.

And Vi, I calls em as I sees them. Rhinox has done a whole lot of nothing.

So your first paragraph is a fence sit...
So your second paragraph is a fence sit...
So your third paragraph, oh, wait, you FINALLY produced content. Holy shit, I need to give you a medal or something!
Your fourth paragraph is weak, but whatev.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHA!
HAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've already started this in the most idiotic fucking way possible~!
First, I *always* vote the mod, and you can look through my recent history to see such. Secondly, I have a meta example of protecting a good player from an early D1 bandwagon. So, once again, you're a fucking idiot ^-^.

Iso 3: Because I feel keeping her alive is of more value regardless of her alignment. She still has to pretend to help town, and she's good at it, were she scum.

See response to iso 2. You're making is blatantly obvious you are searching for padding Rhinox. Why?

"Out of nowhere"? Wow, Rhinox is a fucking idiot. Fate actually posted a bulleted point list which actually gave his points some order, which they were sorely lacking. I honestly couldn't tell what he was saying before.

It's pretty fucking obvious you're trying to bullshit a case at this point. I am VERY fine with a Rhinox lynch now.

...you even noticed the bulleted list, and...wait...what? This...this doesn't even make sense? I...there...there are no words for how utterly dicktarded your case is. You are a stupid motherfucker. There's no other way to put it.

tl;dr: Rhinox is a scummy ass idiot.

(Full disclosure. The prior segment with me responding to Rhinox was a lot less...controlled, involved a lot of caps, and imprecations. However, I figured that would seem a little too unreasonable and not allow me to highlight just how obviously Rhinox is faking it. I know what's there now isn't very polite but fuck it, you have to be pretty stupid scum to post something as idiotic as that wall)

I don't even know what to say about your meanderings around m_o.

UK has been active, and scummier, IMO.

More of the classic quanity over quality scum POV.

...and PZ further proves he's scum.

THIS IS HILARIOUS.

Hmm, well, Rhinox and Papa Zito are my new favorites for scum. Town has no reason to fake a case, and Rhinox did. It's very obvious. Papa Zito has been effectively active lurking and doing nothing of value. Between m_o and VV...well...I WANT to say m_o is scummier because, well, it's my case. But...I think, objectively, VV wins out.

So, that said,

Unvote, Vote VV

HoS: Rhinox

HoS: Papa Zito

FoS: magnus_orion

I would be fine lynching anyone in this list.

[UncertainKitten]

I...THERE CAN'T BE THAT MANY SCUM!!!

/me cries

Vezok is pretty low priority, compared to the ones I've listed.

[UncertainKitten]

Desperate scum, Fate. That's all ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

You answer first:

I had to be very specific with my questions before she started answering well...and she had to time off for a while, presumably to reread the stuff and answer. Not indicative of someone intelligently wagonhopping.

This is self contradictory as all hell. What are you *actually* saying here?

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, my answer doesn't depend on yours so I should answer anyway, but I still want you to answer my question.

For me, you've been doing all you can to change the facts of various situations to suit the *current* accusation Fate has against you. You'll disregard earlier defenses as long as you can defeat the *now*...and you'll contradict yourself all the way there. That's a pretty damn scummy mindset. You care less about finding scum and more about saving your ass and saying whatever you can to do it.

Add to that several not-town statements you've made, such as the one with not being scum with Vi, or maybe the one about how "IF FATE STARTS GAMBITTING I WANT HIM DEAD" with SEVERAL provisions implying you'd still think he was town, meaning you are looking for JUSTIFIABLE lynches and NOT scum lynches...and the fact that all throughout today it's been more about saving your ass than actually catching scum...yeah, you're a pretty good candidate for lynchings ^-^.

Also, where's Rhinox in your wall? And the other 4 players you're missing?

[UncertainKitten]

@PZ: Yes, because OBVIOUSLY people voting me can't POSSIBLY be scum. Thank you SO MUCH for making me see the error of my ways. Clearly I must NEVER accuse ANYONE voting me, EVER! That would just be OMGUS, and NO ONE likes OMGUS :V.

Yeah, no, you've been scummy since page three and Rhinox's wall of fail was about the scummiest thing I've seen since m_o's scummy ass statement.

...are you seriously accusing me of this?

I see UK doing a lot of taking potshots at people without actually pushing anyone or trying to generate reads. She's also doing some rather opportunistic wagon-hopping that I find rather frothy. There's also a bit of buddybuddying going on.

...you're...YOU ARE GUILTY OF MOST OF THIS YOURSELF, YOU BLOODY FUCKING IDIOT!

[UncertainKitten]

(Not to mention it's entirely untrue, but the hypocrisy sticks out MORE)

[UncertainKitten]

In fact, elaborate your stupid ass theory, PZ.

When have I wagon hopped?
Where have I buddied in a way that benefits scum?
Where have I "taken pot shots without actually pushing anyone"?

You know, especially since I was pushing you at first, and if Fate hadn't gotten to it first, while I was, you know, fucking SLEEPING, I'd have pushed m_o, and still helped that wagon proceed.

Am I apparently not allowed to actually see the merit of a well explained case? Is it somehow scummy to understand that occasionally, just OCCASIONALLY, another player has a point?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: And despite not being the initial push, I helped the m_o wagon proceed.

[UncertainKitten]

Your two picks for scum are the two people voting you. You can throw all the temper tantrums you want, but it's just that simple.

That's nice and all, but I fail to see how that does ANYTHING to prove me wrong. It's just some dumbass rhetoric that has no founding in reality. My cases ARE still valid, regardless of who the players in question are currently voting.

You can misrepresent all the facts you want, but it's just that simple.

Scumass.

Anyway, I'm sorry that you're a bloody fucking idiot ^-^, though I can't imagine that's really my fault...

1. MISREP! Fate had to represent his case in a way that made sense. Once he did, we STILL discussed it, and holy shit, he convinced me! OBVIOUSLY people can NEVER be convinced of wagons other than their own. So I don't want this bullshit about momentum shifts. I sussed that out, you bullshit monger.
As for mango, I ALSO sussed that out on my own, and EVEN PROVIDED REASONING in my voting post. It wasn't a fucking wagon hop, it was mango being a fucking scumass. So, again, misrep.
Now, I never dropped my suspicion of VV, so I really don't see why "hopping back" to that wagon is AT ALL SCUMMY.

2. BULLSHIT! You AND m_o were my OWN FUCKING THINKING! Fate's had some good points, but it's HARDLY been the degree of following you imply.

3. Possibly a fair point, but I really have no questions for you scumasses. You've made it so BLATANTLY OBVIOUS you are scum, what is there to ask?

So shut the fuck up and patiently await your lynch, you misrepresenting pile of assholes.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Rather, the wagons they themselves come up with, in point one.

[UncertainKitten]

Now then, if you'll excuse me I have work to do, so I unfortunately won't be able to rage at whatever idiocy you come up with next. I'm sure this disappoints you greatly ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, I await some solid info from DTMaster as well. Let's see if he can dig out of the shithole PZ dug for him.
I'll have to reassess m_o, but it's *possible* Rhinox's flip should change my view of him.

Regardless, I'll do this later cause I have work to do.

[UncertainKitten]

Huh.

Elli's ISO is amazing. Lemme check mango's though.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...to be honest, with the Rhinox flip, I can't see mango scum. His vote history has been poking Rhinox before it was cool to do so. He CAN be faulted for his lukewarm thing on VV, since it could be interpretted as waiting to see where the wind blows, and also his little spiel about what he thinks of long D1s...but, I think his Rhinox views, at least for now, make him a worse play than Elli.

Vote Ellibereth

[UncertainKitten]

Also, will totally be voting DT once he confirms that he's scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Right, but even if you are bussing an obv scum buddy, you tend to move towards the prevailing wagon if yours isn't getting off the ground. He seemed to want Rhinox dead *badly*. Further, as scum, he would have no way of knowing of Rhinox's impending doom.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...well, to be fair, I've found that meta gets in my way when I'm trying to figure out who the scum are :S...so, I'm leery of using it here. (I don't have a good one for m_o anyway)

[UncertainKitten]

Question: Why is PZ confirmed town, if it would not reveal information that should not be revealed?

[UncertainKitten]

@Fate: Then I'm afraid I am disinclined to believe you. PZ has been sounding like scum, acting like scum, looking like scum, and all sorts of things like that. DT *might* be able to dig him out, but for now I'm afraid I fail to see these strong townreasons. Now, don't take this as pressure to PROVIDE them, since I assume you're holding back such important information for a reason. But...I won't be swayed by rhetoric.

[UncertainKitten]

@Fate: If DT is town, I am NEVER playing a motherfucking Faraday-mod game. EVER. Fucking. Again.

Beloved Princess is a TERRIBLE ROLE!

I hope like HELL he's lying.

Question for DT: If you are lynched do we *also* have two night phases? Because seriously, that's utter bullshit if so.

@DT: Why is Almaster better than Elli?

[UncertainKitten]

1. That's actually marginally better, though still not great. Basically it encourages you to play like a jester.

2. Fair enough, was curious what made the difference.

Um...I have no idea who this is to:

If you're telling me that since I don't think Almaster is better then Eli that I should wagon it up with you then no, I won't unless I agree with you. I have my own cases that I want to run, you do your thing. Ka pieche?

[UncertainKitten]

And, no, I wasn't saying that, I was more curious about your choice, to get insight into your alignment. You're already doing a fuckton better than PZ.

[UncertainKitten]

Considering DT claimed a role that basically NEEDS to die at some point, I think its a fair bet that DT is town.

While I'd grant that, there's also the fact that living a few days can be valuable in and of itself as scum, even if you are putting a timer on your death. That said, I think PZ was just playing dumbly and I misread it as scum.

@Fate: Why is SpyreX scum? If I understand the workings of DT's role correctly, they're proposing a correct lynch. Or is it something else?

[UncertainKitten]

...what the fuck Socio, why are you making sense? You aren't supposed to make sense!

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

[UncertainKitten]

WAIT, fuck, I forgot. I don't think DT's ability activates upon being lynched...That said I think the logic still works :S...

[UncertainKitten]

...DERP, I misread it, actually. For some reason I thought you were posting it with two nights, and I was looking at the net gains of lynching as if they were for an ADDITIONAL night.

So I guess I DID grasp the idea without grasping it :S.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...to be honest? I'm not sure I believe SpyreX. This is going to sound stupid but...I think he capitulated to full claiming too easily. It's not like Spy to DO something like that. He'd get out of it without blowing the fact he only had one shot, or at least fight a little harder.

Now, of course, this raises the question of who shot who? I think there are a couple of possibilties. SpyreX could be an SK. There could be an SK out there who made the kill, and Spy is taking the credit (less likely unless he KNEW there was an SK). Finally, there's a vig out there that plans to shoot Spy in the face tonight (Also unlikely since that'd be a stupid risk for Spy)

So, I think Spy would more likely be SK than scum...that said, what do we? He can't shoot without blowing his cover.

[UncertainKitten]

I've been trying to stop using it because it's stupid filler that makes no sense. But I've been using it in conversation a lot lately, even if it's not applicable :S.

Well, regardless, you aren't the play today. Elli is starting to become more impressive too. DT also has an alibi at least, though he still might be the play.

I'm admittedly really, really lost and don't know who the scum are right now :S.

[UncertainKitten]

What the flying fuck just happened? Fate, your typing makes my eyes hurt. Can you do the rational list thing again for the townie on the go? I've had a lot to do lately. I THINK I see the points on mango, particularly how he comes out of the shadows to defend himself but doesn't seem to do much scum hunting, but I'd still like to see the clear bulleted list.

I SUPPORT THE BULLETS FOR BULLETS MOVEMENT!

[UncertainKitten]

Well, that's why I want Fate to explain in a language I can understand.

But, regardless, it DOES seem like you've not been doing a whole lot today until ~*~suddenly~*~ you have to defend yourself.

And that's the point I see so far. The rest I can't even begin to decipher.

[UncertainKitten]

So, wait, m_o...Fate is town...because he's trying to look town? Did I miss something here?

Ah, fuck, Fate got to it first.

m_o: Why would a pro town Fate pick a few people regardless of alignment and tunnel? He's actually had fairly liquid reads this game, IMO.

Anyway, Fate, BULLETS FOR BULLETS! PLEASE!

[UncertainKitten]

@Fate: Why won't you give me that list? You did for VV...

[UncertainKitten]

I CAN'T READ WHAT YOU'VE GIVEN! I'VE TRIED!

HOWEVER, I WILL STATE THAT I AM NOT AGAINST A MANGO LYNCH AT THIS POINT, AND IN FACT WILL VOTE HIM NOW SINCE SPYREX IS A TERRIBLE LYNCH!

Unvote, Vote Mango

I WANT THAT LIST STILL THOUGH! AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! BECAUSE LISTS ARE AWESOME! BULLETS FOR BULLETS!

[UncertainKitten]

@DT: Well, I did tell you that even if Spy is an SK he literally cannot shoot without getting lynched for lying, so he's no threat until close to lylo when we have to decide.

@UK:
Why the 180 on magnus? First he's not scum with Rhinox, then you drop a hammer on him. Do not like.
What was that "bullets for bullets" about?

It's kinda embarassing really...I...uh...didn't realize I was hammering...

I thought he was at L-2 for some reason, NOT L-1. I realize that's kinda a shitty reason but it's all I got.

As for why I voted him, the little scraps I WAS being given seemed suspicious to me. As for "bullets for bullets", I thought it was a catchy way to say I wanted well reasoned cases before I lent my vote to a lynch. But Bullets for Rope doesn't sound as cool.

So, I don't have much else to say about that :S.

Feel free to ask anything, I'll ISO SP at some point, probably later this evening after I do a little work. Has Vezok done anything outside of coasting on being a neighborizer who apparently has no ability to succeed whatsoever?

Also, DT, what does "ihmo" mean? I'm confused :S.

[UncertainKitten]

Well if it's that your sentence structure needs work as well :V.

Could you explain your first point against me more clearly, then?
Also, how are we going to find out if Spy is an SK, providing he is one?

[UncertainKitten]

I'm merely questioning DTM. As I said, Spy, even if you ARE an SK, there is absolutely nothing we can OR SHOULD do about it right now.

DTM seems to think that somehow it'd become apparent you were an SK, and I'm curious about that line of thought.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, he was already doing most of the legwork. My read of him in isolation came to a different conclusion. I figured I missed something. I did miss a few things, and voted based on them. I didn't think about anyone quick hammering, mostly because I respect you all as players and wouldn't expect something like that to happen. Then again, I miscounted and other people can too, so I should have considered that.

Regardless, there's not a whole lot I can say against what you've just proposed. For some reason I don't think "Uh...no?" is very convincing ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

@DT: Huh? You noticed that too? I mean, he didn't really change his story. But the appending of "Oh, I has thread" is...convenient.

Ok, I think I get what you mean about the SK

Not a whole lot I can do about why you suspect me :V.

[UncertainKitten]

OK...I did a quick ISO and I'm not seeing what's so terrible about SP. Elli, I do note, hasn't seemed to deliver after his first list, which is convenient.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, vezok is pretty fucking terrible. That list is a joke. It's as if you roll random numbers between 1 and 3 and then tried to make them look pretty for everyone.

[UncertainKitten]

Vote vezok

(Pretty sure my vote hasn't been doing anything yet, and it should be)

[UncertainKitten]

Can you answer Jahudo's question or are you physically incapable of responding to anything asked of you without a wagon coming down on your head?

[UncertainKitten]

This is becoming kinda comical ^-^;.

[UncertainKitten]

Isn't the program lynching vezok? Cause lynching vezok is a good idea ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

I wanna hear what Elli has to say before we hammer him. And I'd REALLY rather kill vezok. He's like, as red handed as you can get.

[UncertainKitten]

But I'm impatient, SpyreX.

[UncertainKitten]

Impatience means I want more vezok votes >=[!

[UncertainKitten]

Fiiiiiine, whatever.

Ellibereth seems to be pretty bad about the "more later" anyway.

But vezok tomorrow, ok?

Unvote, Vote Ellibereth

HAMMAH~

[UncertainKitten]

Vote Vezok

I don't think a whole lot has changed.

Why were you willing to hammer Elli, who was "pretty town", again?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, I'm his neighbor. But I hate him. He stole my lawnmower. And now he'll pay.

[UncertainKitten]

I can. Right went day broke.

Vezok still is scum though. AND I WANT MY LAWNMOWER BACK YOU DOUCHE!

[UncertainKitten]

Hi. There is nothing going on. I want stuff to go on. Why is vezok still alive?

[UncertainKitten]

Alternate theory: Rhinox was a fucking moron.

I really have no idea why you're voting me

this

time Jahudo.

[UncertainKitten]

I second that motion. I STILL don't get the socio case.

You know what else I don't get? Why vezok still is alive.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, that's ~*~amazing~*~ vezok. Do you even have reasoning? Or is it just because I voted you for being the scum you are?

PATHETIC!

[UncertainKitten]

Oh how CUTE~. Vezok, in his infinite stupidity, neighborized me because he thought I'd "scum slip" in his topic. How utterly dicktarded can you be?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, the problem, Jahudo, with your last point, which is really the only one I can answer since you're just manipulating shit to make yourself look right on the rest of it, is the fact that apparently townies can NEVER change their mind in your world. Whereas it was PRETTY OBVIOUS what was convincing me on mango.

So, please, create a real case, and throw away the nonsensical bullshit.

YOU DON'T HAVE JACK SHIT ON ME

Oh, and the last part. You do realize VV was scummier, right? Rhinox was p. bad too, but...you know...I DO only have one vote.

[UncertainKitten]

You really aren't worth arguing with Jahudo. Your logic is utter shit and you know it.

[UncertainKitten]

I already told you why. You're basically saying I'm not allowed to change my mind. Which is utter bullshit.

So, no. If you can't UNDERSTAND that, it's a waste of time arguing.

[UncertainKitten]

I do not think you have any idea what the hell you're talking about. Because you're wrong, and anyone who LOOKS at the situation can see how wrong you are. So, again, this is a waste of time.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, fuck, you did ask questions, sorry, missed them. I thought they were statements.

For the first, I felt his scumminess overcame that at this point. Things were brought to light.

I don't understand the second question. Reiterate it.

P Edit: That was actually pretty hilarious as I JUST noticed the questions and typed a response before you pushed it :V.

[UncertainKitten]

It really depended on whether he'd actually be lynched. He would not be a good play for catching scum, but it WOULD buy us a day, which is why it was being bandied about in the first place.

I think what sold me is the fact Mango had been lurking and only popping in to defend himself. How *convenient* is that?

[UncertainKitten]

Huh, really? I thought that was the last point. Well, in that case, it was Socio's points that sold me, though I wanted to probe Fate and thought I could still do it while voting mango. The convenient lurking is what caused me to revisit mango despite the Rhinox evidence. Clearly that was a mistake.

[UncertainKitten]

Socio: Why is vezok's ability confirmation making him town?

Can you explain why vezok is town? Because I'm pretty sure I can disprove you quite easily in just about any case.

Interesting you'd defend him, but not actually defend him though. I DO wonder who I should vote when vezok flips scum~

[UncertainKitten]

I think vezok ALWAYS plays like newbie X. X being his alignment. So I think he's playing idiotic scum. Please, tell me why he ISN'T scum! NO ONE HAS ANSWERED THIS!

I ALSO told you all why vezok CLAIMS he neighborized me. Supposedly I was going to ~*~slip~*~.

[UncertainKitten]

That's funny. Usually when people provide no information, contradict themselves in a scummy manner, that is, contradict themselves in such a way that benefits them as scum, say, changing reads so that they can sheep people despite making different reads just a few posts before...

THAT MAKES THEM SCUMMY

Why are you defending Vezok?

[UncertainKitten]

So he could look ~*~proactive~*~. That one's fairly easy, don't you think?

[UncertainKitten]

Then, oh wise Socio who *happens* to have failed to answer my prior question of how vezok is at all town, who *should* we lynch?

[UncertainKitten]

You know, I wasn't kidding. I do want an answer. I know we had Christmas yesterday but today is not.

[UncertainKitten]

Uh huh. That's nice. And I suppose reasoning won't be forthcoming, will it? Because that's the convenient way for you to do things, isn't it?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, as a bonus, if you ARE in an explaining mood, you could explain AGM too ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Wait, what the hell do you think again, Gamma? I have absolutely no recollection of you ever taking a stance. Perhaps you'd like to refresh my memory?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh.

Not sure how I feel about that, actually. Elaborate on the vezok hate.

[UncertainKitten]

All right. So, how many scum do you think are in this game?

[UncertainKitten]

Patience Gamma. I asked to reaffirm that you thought there were two scum left. So who is vezok's buddy?

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, follow up to that.

Jahudo: Who's my scumbuddy?
SP: Who's my scumbuddy?
vezok: Who's my scumbuddy?
AGM: Who's vezok's scumbuddy?

[UncertainKitten]

Because that's what I want to know. I have two candidates in mind. Can you tell me what benefit scum gain by knowing who you believe to be vezok's scumbuddy? I feel the information is valuable for town. It's also why I asked everybody. For some reason we all seem to have one suspect now. We're reasonably sure there are two scum. What happened?

@SP: Thank you. I'm surprised you actually answered a question.

But what happened to vezok being town, again? Cause that's an interesting shift in stance ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

To elaborate, I wonder how mutable your informationless reads are. And how much of that mutability might be for conveniently changing inconvenient opinions.

Just an idle thought.

[UncertainKitten]

Socio. I think I'd remember if your views were conveniently changing. That would have stood out. You haven't. Hence why I'm poking you now. I don't like forgetting people.

Anyway, there's one problem with your theory about the kills. There is at least one obvious town target floating around. I feel there are more, but that's also assuming vezok's flip. Revealing a scumbuddy read does not do much about the scum NK.

Any other objections? No pun intended, of course.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, how interesting.

Are you afraid of being questioned, Gamma?

[UncertainKitten]

So who's vezok's scumbuddy?

[UncertainKitten]

How interesting. And why is Socio scum again?

And that's nice Socio. Thank you for that contribution.

[UncertainKitten]

Intriguing. Anything else on AGM?

[UncertainKitten]

Thank you Vezok.

Now you know what would be nice?

If you actually provided fucking reasons for anything you say rather than saying it and hoping we don't notice

Do so. NOW.

[UncertainKitten]

AGM, vezok's buddy?

And that's nice Socio. But you're wrong.

VEZOK WILL GET HIS ASS LYNCHED TODAY

@Gamma: You do note that Vezok is voting me, right? Further, what reason have I to believe DTM? I've had suspicions from the start about the function of his role. Why would scum hammer if they weren't sure? I can't imagine they'd make that bet.

Further, I questioned you because you disappeared. I actually suspect Socio is Vezok's scumbuddy at this juncture, but my questions led me there.

[UncertainKitten]

Then who's his buddy, AGM?

[UncertainKitten]

Interesting.

[UncertainKitten]

That you'd not think about who makes sense as a buddy with vezok this late in the game. At this point you have to think about connections.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree that a lying DT would make him scum. You're rather foolish to ignore that gaps.

Also, three scum remaining wouldn't happen. I don't understand where you get that.

Well, whatever. Enjoy your loss.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm. I have no idea why I got so damn worked up then, Zito. It's fine if you don't want to play with me again, but will you at least allow me to apologize now? I've had this issue for awhile with the rage, and I'm working against it. Alas, I still haven't worked hard enough.

So...well, I apologize for my uncivil behavior. I hope you can forgive me, but if you can't, I understand.

And yeah, I played terribly as scum. It's been forever since I've done it, and I hate being scum anyway.

Anyway, kudos to Fate for getting two out of three so early.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, I also owe Rhinox an apology. Again, way over the line.