Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[KageLord]

vote:Zang

It's got to be Kang in disguise!!

*gasp* Geeeeeeeenius!

Unfortunately, my vote is already reserved.

Vote: Nachomamma8

He's always scum.

[KageLord]

Boberz, why didn't you vote in your first post?

Kage, why did you feel the need to acknowledge Jason's vote on Zang if you were going to vote for Nacho?

Demon, why did you want a mass character claim, which is obviously a terrible idea.

Tragedy, don't guess people's roles in thread.

(The Fonz already addressed this)

Boberz Post 52, reaction to a few votes on him, is much scummier than anything he did to warrant the votes in the first place.

General question, is it common for this much discussion in a large theme to be about past games?

Benmage gets a scum read, but

I won't say why just yet.

Sweet, I can elaborate because Hiraki already confirmed that my thought wasn't true. The not wanting to say more thing, to me, looked like someone with role related info. Sure, we haven't had a night. But some roles are immediately given information that can help them figure things out.

Hiraki, why would scum be on Demon's lynch more than any other person lynched on Day 1 of a mafia game? Your statement is true, but could apply to anyone.

(Dammit! I got beat to this one too.)

I'm only through the first three pages, but I have to go.

For awesome RVS reasoning. Why did you feel the need to make this big post without saying anything new (except saying maybe Hiraki is okay for not elaborating because he has a rare town role that tells him someone is scum)?

DH (and please no one else answer this), just to be sure of what you mean, in what way was the whole flavor claim thing meant to end RVS? By getting us to talk about the idea, by getting us to reject the idea so you could judge people based on how they rejected it, or by actually getting us to do it and thus ending RVS?

Some obvious connections to possibly follow up on in later days, pending flips, are (Benmage and DH) and (Hiraki and Darla).
_______________________

Fuzzy Beavers is very confusing but I see nothing wrong with not revealing his main accounts. I've seen several players who don't believe in meta.

Its not about meta. Personally I think meta is stupid

and quite frankly I DON'T really care what two heads they are. The problem is, as was the case in Supernatural, he/she is being fairly obstinate. One head said we could figure it out and I'm sure I could but I don't feel like jumping hoops right now.

im not sureyour right Nero, I think Meta can be an excellent tool to pin down scum or find out if someone is town. but its harder to use with a hydra account.

Never said its not useful

; just I don't think its the say all be all of scum hunting.

Anyone else think that these are somewhat contradictory?
____________________

Beavers brings confusion. KILL IT.

vote F Beaver

Ditto the crowd. Will unvote when claim is made.

(PS guys I am a bit busy and will be slowish until the weekend)

Too many posts happening too fast. Do not like.

In any case,

vote boberz

I do not like your play, sir.

@Beaver/s I find confusion in your entire self, but I have yet to find more than confusion or any reason to find you scummalicious. Yet.

These seem odd to me as well. The first one obviously features sheeping prominently ("Ditto the crowd" doesn't help Darla's case), but that in itself isn't much of a scum tell since many people could be considered sheeping on that vote and we can't really tell apart those who were serious and those who were opportunistic. However, when seen with this second quote... that seems like major backtracking. Also no reason on the new wagon vote (following DH and The Fonz).

Unvote

VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

P.S.

@Mod

, early prod on Nacho? He hasn't posted yet and is missing quite a bit.

Yeah, there are a few people who are in need of it. I'll start prodding tomorrow.

[KageLord]

Kate, explain your connections some more.

As for DBE the Bob vote is weak. The beaver vote looks half rvs with the confusion comment, and half serious with the vote to get the Hydra info.

The switch to Bob and beaver commentary that beaver doesn't look bad is peculiar. I found beaver pretty useless until it appears Nik posted.

If I recall correctly I was never too impressed with DTMs game.

I'm gonna assume you meant Kage.

For you, I should have said "possible" connections. I would hope you could see the Hiraki and Darla connection with him flat out refusing what anyone says against Darla. The one with you and DH is based around:

Ugh I hate the fact that I have todo this from a phone. A few things:

First Which I am guilty as well is that we completely undermine our votes on beaver by saying we will remove. Well why are they there? They are there because he is purposely and willfully withholding information from the town which is inherently antitown. Therefore I ask the question, since we have already ruined any worth to our votes, is anyone willing to go through with their votes and see that beavers is lynched if he maintains this obstinate behavior? I am.

Also I find beavers style too playful. It doesnt seem to be adding anything to the game. His daykill jest thing, all his posts read fluffy.

Also I find DH's idiotic comment more of a towntell than anything else. I believe his last comment and you rarely see scum trying to make such ridiculous comments that early on.

As for llamas quick vote I find null. Both opportunistic scum and overeager town jump at early foolishness.

There might've been more I wanted to say...damn phones.

DH needs to die. His vote hopping and opinion are anti-town.

Not to mention, his alignment could really help this game.

There's more I could say, but I don't really want to.

Vote: DemonHybrid

Vote hopping? Lol.... is noone else guilty of this? How could his alignment help? ....don't want to say more....nah nah nah. Say more.

That's another hing I hate when people make you try and assume things like in bobs case or in this case, don't spell everything out. Spell it out. We need everything from everyone. I hate pulling teeth from people and if I had a second vote it'd be on Hiraki.

Not a strong connection, but definitely possible.

[KageLord]

Your thing meant his/her suspicions, mhm.

Well cool, I completely misunderstood what you said.
Also, adding "mhm" to the end of every sentence is a good way to get yourself lynched. Please stop.

Mariyta, why are you being so hostile? What do you actually think about our alignment? Lobbing insults at me at every opportunity might be fun, but it isn't very productive.

Unvote. Vote: KageLord.

I'm going to go with my gut for now, since my vote on Tragedy was for a misunderstanding and DTM isn't caught up yet.

Any reason for the vote other than "gut"?

[KageLord]

Fonz

while vote hopping may not be a scum tell...it is annoying as fuck and the towns probably better off without that person. See furclow in zachs game that just ended.

Not it isn't... it's something Oman does, and I do, amongst others. furcolow's annoying because he's furculow, not because he votehops. There's like a trillion things Furc does that are more annoying than that. At the beginning of the game, there isn't a lot to go on, and random things quickly get superseded by tiny things which quickly get superseded by small things and so on. 'He's votehopping' is a lazy scum justification for a vote.

However, you at least give reasoning for your votes. Classic votehopping as a scum tell is mostly done by noobs and they don't give reasons for their votes (or, at least, not reasons that haven't been said by the voters before them). Sometimes scum subconciously votehop just because they don't really care which townie dies. But, for people with more than a few games experience, I doubt it shows up as a scum tell.

[KageLord]

@sottyrulez: Jason has made more comments and interacted more with other people. We could get more possible connections with his flip than with a Tragedy flip.

Yeah I get that.

I guess my point more is, getting info from someone's alignment goes without saying. It's really just a filler statement meant to sound like you're doing something. If I was to day kill Jason right now, what info would his flip really give us? We're still in the early goings and to see you using that statement as an argument so early doesn't really work for me.

Lets play connect the dots. Be specific. Who do you think we'd have more info on after Jason's flip apart from us? (AKA Sottyrulez)

~Sotty

Mainly, Jason has commented, even Voted, for Tragedy, but Tragedy has said little to nothing about Jason. Keep in mind I am suspicious of both of them. Jason being scum would be a good point in favor of Tragedy being town, so if he flips scum, it will get rid of two suspects with one lynch.

Jason has also been a little too on the fence with Darla for my taste. He's keeping her under suspicion, but not voting. Tragedy has expressed little to no suspicion of anybody whatsoever, so if I he is scum, it tells less about whom he has commented so little on. I find that scum tend to keep their buddies as their number 2 or 3 susects.

You can find that kind of connection with so many people (an easy connection, as mentioned earlier, is Hiraki and DBE, and they are both generally higher on suspect lists, so why not lynch one of them?). And even then it's still a bit too WIFOMy. I don't agree with using that as reasoning for a lynch either.

I'm pretty sure you already knew all of this, diddin.

[KageLord]

Though I have never played in a game with a Hydra/s would it be illogical of me to assume that one of the hydras would be town and one to be scum?

If that were the case I would (by play so far) lean towards Beavers being more town-y.

Er... that's not how it works. For all intents and purposes, a hydra is treated as a single player. A hydra has as much chance of being scum as anyone else (assuming it's a random assignment). The only difference is that a hydra is actually two (maybe more?) real people sharing the account.

Okay. Walk of shame time.

BASICALLY, on a very thorough reread, (and I admit up to now I have not been paying super close attention to this game. Fail points on me,) I pretty much am sitting here wtfing at myself, and wondering what had me so confused, and I think it might have to do with me diving into too many games too soon after such a huge absence and getting them confused since I don't tend to have time to sit down and really devote to them until after 2am with my life being so hectic this last week. Not an excuse, I realize, and not asking to be excused.

BUT ANYWAYS. Ignore my absent minded shittery above.

unvote Sotty

(not scotty...ffs I can't even read NAMES right what is my problem)

and on top of that looking around on the read through I am finding it very hard to spot scum, but from what I've read I seem to get the most contradicting sort of play off Jason, SA, and Hiraki, but overwhelmingly I am thinking Hiraki.

Vote Hiraki

and please don't hurt me guys. Would it help if I overshared and said PMS was involved? =D and I hereby solemnly swear to devote myself fully to this game from here on out and stop acting like such a n00bfail.

Never heard that used as a defense before...

Great. Now I don't know if the scummy play was a result of noobishness and personal stuff or actually being scum.

[KageLord]

Btw. Guderian. Are those the only reasons that you're voting me?

Answer now.

... Any other comments on the game since your last post?

I'd be okay with DBE, Hiraki, or maybe jason.

[KageLord]

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

Hopefully I'll get an ISO of her when Diff Eq isn't being so time-consuming.

[KageLord]

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

Obviously I'll have to reread at some point though since I don't think that's a good enough reason.

lol at SensFan, Guderian, and Zang not having posted for a week or more.

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

Hopefully I'll get an ISO of her when Diff Eq isn't being so time-consuming.

This post stinks....

Maybe it's because you reason away her lynch as either flip. Maybe it is

because you seem over eager for a role claim

, or maybe it is because I even forgot you were in this game.

Other than Darla who are your scum reads and why?

Right now I really don't like how Kage pushes for a claim and then gets one right away.

How can I control Darla being a complete noob? I would think that any reasonable person would check how many votes are on their wagon before assuming they are at L-1 and claiming. Did she really think she had gone from 3 votes to L-1 in one page? Anyway, clearly the reasoning for that part of the post (that she's dazed and confused) has been proven accurate by her premature claim.

[KageLord]

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

If you haven't noticed, "_____ needs to die" is the equivalent of "You are scum. Now die." There is no difference. People change minds. I'm a bit busy with a report, so this is all I have the time to say. I'll be good with Friday though, so get ready for that.

I understand that reads change, but "You are scum. Now die." isn't a read that should be taken lightly. I might have one of those reads in any given game and I damn well will see it through to lynch (or NK, if it happens that way). Essentially you are saying that you are 100% sure someone is scum and want them lynched. Then you end up saying later that they aren't scum and someone else is 100% sure scum. Then they aren't either.

But, it's not the greatest reasoning as to why someone is scum, which is why my vote isn't on you. It could almost just as easily be unsure town that likes to pretend to be sure or town that never trusts themselves. Somewhat anti-town either way, but not necessarily scum (still a good possibility of scum as well, which is still why you're #2 for me).

[KageLord]

wow. Talk about looking for a devil behind every bush, Rib.

Bart and Lisa are like the main characters aside from Homer (I have only seen a handful of eps, so pardon my ignorance if that's not as acturate as it seems) I was simply using them as a reference that just because someone is a good-guy in the show doesn't mean they'd be cast as one in the game or vice-versa, and just what kind of info do you have? If that's a soft claim is a terrible one.

I wonder why you wouldn't put Homer, Marge, or Flanders in that case. Any of the Flanders are created to be good. Marge is almost always good. Homer... isn't evil, just kind of realistic in his morals. Lisa is almost always good. Bart... would be the most likely scum out of the family considering he's a hellraiser. Still, all flavor speculation is kind of useless. Just interesting that you would put Bart in with Lisa as surprising scum chars.

Rib, I'm not sure that her putting kids there would be scum play though. If Bart and Lisa are indeed the scum chars, why would scum suggest them? That kind of forces fakeclaims by them when they could have possibly gotten away with actually claiming Bart and Lisa before. I'm not sure that I understand why scum would give up that info voluntarily.

[KageLord]

unvote, vote Kagelord.

Wraith's been better since I pointed him out. Don't particularly like the Hiraki wagon, though all my reads are pretty weak here. On the fence about tvellalot. I've repeatedly come close to voting him, then he's come out with something decent. I've seen nothing to make me think town on Kage.

Weak vote. Reads as: not scummy, but not town, so vote.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

This post stinks....

Maybe it is

because you seem over eager for a role claim

, or maybe it is because I even forgot you were in this game.

Right now I really don't like how Kage pushes for a claim and then gets one right away.

How can I control Darla being a complete noob? I would think that any reasonable person would check how many votes are on their wagon before assuming they are at L-1 and claiming. Did she really think she had gone from 3 votes to L-1 in one page? Anyway, clearly the reasoning for that part of the post (that she's dazed and confused) has been proven accurate by her premature claim.

Read:

It's not my fault she claimed, even though I suggested it was a good idea by implying that she was close to lynch when it wasn't entirely true.

I didn't imply she was close to lynch. If you would read my post more carefully (and it seems like you're not really reading the whole thing now), you would see the "if you get closed to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer". Was that condition met when DBE claimed? No. Thus no reason to claim if she was actually reacting to my post. If everyone thought I was telling her to claim, I would say that maybe there was a problem in my wording that I just wasn't getting, but since others seem to read it fine, I would say it's careless reading on your part.

Already covered for the rolefishing, but quoted this portion again to point out more Kagelord uncertainty awesomeness.

More apparent uncertainty yet the vote remains. To me it appears Kage is hedging his bets on pushing for a Darla lynch, yet distancing himself from it all the same.

Since when is uncertainty a scumtell? Read my meta and you'll notice that's present in all of my games (in fact, even though this is self-meta and thus not very reliable, I tend to be more uncertain as town than scum). There were only two times that I attacked with real certainty as town. I was only right one of those two times.

unvote
Vote Kage

Wagon winner! Tvell can just be bullet winner.

K... a quick building wagon vote.

ISO: Tvellalot / Mist

Tvellalot: Supporting the DBE lynch while helping Hiraki in some confusing way.

Vote: Kagelord

(I sincerely apologize for lateness, but after reading sotty's post with Kagelord's post, yes, it does feel somehow scummy since it was already mentioned of the distancing stuff.. Durhur~!)

Explain please, using your own words, about the "distancing stuff".

3) I don't read Maryita's post as trying to appease people at all

QFT

If Mariyta was posting to appease and was in it for a big wagon as DH suggests, I don't see why Mariyta wouldn't have just jumped onto my wagon as it was initially gaining steam. There are already clearly votes on it that are sheeping/wagoning so I don't think one more would have aroused much suspicion.

[KageLord]

Because Nacho seems to think it's important, I'll check out tvella's ISO (summaries in normal font and my thoughts in italics):

ISO 0-1: Votes DH then claims not to have read the other pages, but keeps his vote on DH. Asks what next play is.

Okay so far, but his question at the end leaves it hanging that he might unvote given the proper reasoning on the next play by DH.

ISO 2: Unvotes DH for saying his plan is to lynch boberz for his response to the "trap". Says he is unsure that boberz's actions are lynchworthy and the previously discussed, "Let's see where this goes."

Obviously the last sentence is scummy for the wait-and-see attitude. Usually there is some speculation as to whether this is actually going on or if the person is just unsure on their read, but here he says that's what he's doing himself. I don't really understand how boberz's actions aren't lynchworthy (or even voteworthy) but DH's suggestion was. If you are willing to accept that DH's suggestion was a trap to catch someone like boberz, then your vote logically should go from DH to boberz. This implies to me that tvella doesn't want to be stuck on the DH wagon anymore, now that he no longer seems like a fool, but also doesn't want to jump onto boberz for something others might not find scummy. This whole last part is just major speculation by me though.

ISO 3-4: Promises content in response to Hiraki (who gave him a "needs to die"). Says he wasn't following by unvoting DH but would be following by boberz. Gives Sens a town read for his scumhunting and Darla a scummish read for gut reads on a possible deflection to sotty and being overly defensive. Votes Darla.

Obviously I can't argue with his conclusion, but now that I see this again, I find it a bit odd that those are the tells he chooses to go with for the vote (as opposed to the earlier things that I mentioned or I assume boberz mentioned in his vote). I don't really buy that he decided DH had town reasoning but incorrect reasoning (i.e. the whole trap was useless, but not scummy).

ISO 5: Questions Darla's 'contradicting play' reasoning for her vote when she could be accused of the same.

This was in response to Darla's fabulous post where she admitted to completely screwing up for the beginning of the game and tried to find some reason to vote someone (in the end not providing much reasoning). I see nothing wrong with this post.

ISO 6-7: Defends his vote from SA's suspicions and says SA thought the same thing earlier but didn't vote. Laughs at Nacho's vote on him.

His defense of his vote isn't bad. I can't blame him for laughing at Nacho's vote either since Nacho didn't seem to give any reasons the first time around.

ISO 8-10: Further defense of his Darla vote against Llama, DH, and Hiraki.

Somewhat redeeming here, I think. Obviously as scum he couldn't just abandon ship here without looking scummy, but these posts make me believe he actually does find Darla scummy (or at least he thinks there is enough of a case there for him to keep pushing). Either way, not so scummy.

ISO 11-12: Declaring V/LA for 24 hours (promising more activity after that), which he overstepped about 25 hours ago.

____________________

Conclusion: I came into this ISO thinking I was going to be voting him at the end (especially for ISO 2), but his last few posts (before 11-12) kind of changed my mind. I'm leaning town on him now.

[KageLord]

I agree completely, but 23 pages is a lot when someone has little time. ISOs are helpful for summaries of specific people.

True. The only problem is that posts in ISOs often reference other posts, so when looking at an ISO you still have to read a couple of posts before it too. Still better than reading the whole thread time-wise, I suppose.

[KageLord]

I'm sorry I just lost capicity to think. I'll be more active tommrow. How about we just no lynch??

VI or SI confirmed.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

I didn't originally interpret this as trying to get her to claim early, but with how many people have said they did I thought I should probably look at this again. The thing that sticks out to me is that not only was DBE nowhere near L-1, she wasn't even the current vote leader. (Hiraki had one more vote than her at the time) So Kage, what was the point of this post if you weren't trying to confuse DBE into claiming her role?

Tbh, I wasn't sure how many votes were on DBE at that point, but I did know that the wagon was at least growing and it seemed like she would be vote leader soon if she wasn't already. The point was, in the event that the wagon grew at a faster rate, DBE would know what to do. The post assumed she was unfamiliar with mafia protocol and clearly that has been proven correct. This was to avoid a situation in which she was actually a town PR but didn't know that she was supposed to claim if she was about to be lynched.

The following is WIFOMy but: why would scum openly try to coax a claim? It would obviously attract attention if something went wrong (as it did) and seems to me at least like too risky of a move for scum Day 1 when it is not even close to necessary. Again, check my scum meta to see if I like to make risky moves or not (the one risky move I made was on like Day 3 or 4 to lynch MoI and pretty much secure scum victory).

[KageLord]

Early in the game kage didnt do all that much. His first few points he pushes are that people have connections to eachother, not who is scum. Even with the connections he points out he fails to take a stance on the people. Eventually there is a weak vote on DBE

The first one obviously features sheeping prominently ("Ditto the crowd" doesn't help Darla's case), but that in itself isn't much of a scum tell since many people could be considered sheeping on that vote and we can't really tell apart those who were serious and those who were opportunistic. However, when seen with this second quote... that seems like major backtracking. Also no reason on the new wagon vote (following DH and The Fonz).

The first quote was a DBE sheeping everyone asking for FB head claim, later she unvoted and moved to boberz. It was not backtracking like claimed by kage though. Backtracking owuld have been along the lines of "oh never mind you dont need to claim", she actually said that she did not find FB scummy, and that was why she is unvoting.

The backtracking comment wasn't in response to the unvote, but to her exact words. Check out my post again and see the use of the word "confusion". In the first one she seems to use FB bringing confusion as a reason to vote him (something like "BEAVER BRINGS CONFUSION. KILL IT."). Next one she says all he has done wrong is brought confusion, which is no reason to find him scummy. See the change there? She did also mention unvoting with a claim but unvoted without the claim anyway (lesser point here). And as mentioned at the end of my post, she gave no reason to join the new wagon, which is just a bit worse than "Ditto the crowd" in my book.

After that kage goes right back to connections and some theory talk. Almost a week into the game and the one post is all the scumhunting that kage has actually done. That one four line quote. Soon after, we get...

Great. Now I don't know if the scummy play was a result of noobishness and personal stuff or actually being scum.

So now Kage is just bouncing around between top suspects DBE, Hikari and jason. Still not scumhunting, and more making noise with small things that are incosequent to anything at this point in the game.

Er, I don't know where you're looking but I'm pretty sure I didn't mention Hiraki or jason at that point. My main suspect continued to be DBE and I thought it was pretty strong up to that point, so I didn't have much motivation to look for immediate other targets. The rest of the posts were actually comments on what was being discussed in the game. Don't know how that's not relevant. Now, I'll admit I definitely haven't done as much as I could have in the way of scumhunting, but that is not real reasoning as to why someone is scum. If it was, I'm pretty sure we would have at least 6-7 scum in this game.

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

While everyone was all into the claim thing, this part is FAR more important. Kage is justifying a lynch on DBE because he is either scum or town that will not be useful. At this point instead of scumhunting, he is trying to push what is more of a policy lynch on someone, and prematurely making sure that a town flip wont give him any flack.

If that's how it reads to you, there's nothing I can do to change that. I don't mind policy lynching VIs D1 (in both of my last 2 games as scum, town left a VI alive for too long and it cost them the game, which is why I might have more of a bias toward it at this point and why I probably wouldn't have minded a Mist lynch if Mist had been around since early day). The point I was trying to make was that she either looked scummy for actually being scum or for being a VI and in either case she was definitely more of a liability to town than an asset. Give me all the flack you want if she flips town and you think I made a mistake by pushing her.

Eventually he pushed somewhat of a case on Hikari, although it basically is the way Hikari has been presenting reads

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

So changing reads makes him Kages second pick because those types of reads "shouldnt be taken lightly"

So read over kage. He has done next to nothing in the form of scumhunting, and always has justification to vote whoever is a hot topic at the time.

Again, I admit that I haven't done as much scumhunting as I could, but that isn't a reason for a lynch. Also note that your insinuation about "whoever is a hot topic" is bust since I started Darla's wagon and have never been on jason's, beaver's, or boberz's (in fact, I have only been on Darla this entire game and the only one I have said I would be okay with joining is Hiraki) and I'm pretty sure they were all hot topic at one point or another.

[KageLord]

Hi Everyone in Simpson's Mafia land, why are we getting so fixated on the flavor? I honestly don't think focusing on flavor will get us very far. The Simpsons has run for 20+ seasons, do you really think that through all of those story arcs there are characters who are plainly "good" or "evil?" And that's not even mentioning all the Halloween episodes, which fans of the series will know aren't considered cannon, but at the same time do provide a wealth of possibilities, none the least of which include alternate dimensions, evil twins, doctors who practice medicine w/o licenses... etc. I've watch most of the early episodes until the show started to slip, just to be clear. Anyway, how abouts we get back to the scum hunting?

Theme game=flavor. If flavor didn't matter in a theme game whats the point of making it themed? I do agree with that's there's alot of possibilities b/c the show has ran for a long ass time but I'm fairly sure that certain characters will fit along their alignments such as that guy that stalks Bart would deff be mafia.

Someone (I think rib) mentioned that they have flavor reason based on their role to believe that the kids are scum in this game. Otherwise, Sideshow Bob would be a good scum role candidate. Also, the most obvious one... Fat Tony (for those that don't watch the show, he's the head of the Springfield Mafia).

[KageLord]

Lowell, why the wraith vote? We're coming up to a deadline and need to organize ourselves, I doubt a wraith wagon will form in the next day or so.

Kage, Jason and diddin are our top lynches for today right now.

If we have to compromise lynch hiraki then we will. Still we think Kage is a far better alternative.

~Sotty

Erm... where have you been? The top wagons are, in order: Hiraki, me, and DBE. jason's been seen as scummy by multiple people, but doesn't seem to be anyone's top suspect and is thus an unlikely wagon approaching deadline. diddin has only been mentioned a couple of times and is an almost impossible wagon at this point.

I still like DBE as scum despite this supposed obv-townness her AtE has gotten her. As stated before, I would be willing to get on Hiraki as a compromise lynch, but only if the DBE wagon is surely going nowhere closer to deadline.

[KageLord]

Get a fucking grip people. Mist is a trolling VI, and she's attracting your votes on purpose. So fucking ignore her.

As a general proposition, I'm for policy lynching VIs early. Not necessarily D1, but the earlier the better. I've seen VIs screw town over near lylo more times than I care to recount (though thankfully I was scum for 1 or 2 of those). That being said, I would like to give Mist a bit more time for the sake of relations just in case she flips scum.

[KageLord]

God. No chance at Darla huh?

Unvote

VOTE: Mist

[KageLord]

Kage’s post 437 is odd in relation to DBE. Kind’ve half-heartedly supports her death…then tells her to claim if she gets close to a hammer…in which she super early claims. ****Did she read this as coaching?
-Calls out others for not posting
-Admits to not do much scum-hunting themselves
-Horrible Mist sheep, post sotty vote.

1. Again, already talked about. Not quite right to blame her early claim on me.
2. Did do that.
3. Did do that.
4. How was it a horrible sheep? What makes it any worse than anyone else's vote on Mist?

Also on Kage which I had forgotten. He tried to draw connections with myself, and others. Early on. Lynch X if Y flips scmum. I called him out on it and he quickly backed down.

Where did I back down exactly?

I was kinda surprised at the Deer death, so I looked back at his short ISO and I found suspicion of three people: Nero Cain, DBE, and Hiraki. I'd bet money at least one of them is scum. I still think Hiraki is the scummiest.

Vote: Hiraki

Interesting idea, but I still don't get the Deer kill. There were other people that went after Hiraki that were much more active about it than Deer. I mean, I guess that could be the point, but in that case I would think DBE is the better suspect on that front (considering he seemed more sure about her).

bloody hell, i come on and am the popular wagon with Sotty leading the charge by the looks of it. I thought you would have picked up my hints by now I have been dropping them all day 1. I am

Doctor

Julius Hibbert.

I pray that you are lying. Otherwise this is the most screwed town I have ever been on and that has nothing to do with scum so far.

bloody hell, i come on and am the popular wagon with Sotty leading the charge by the looks of it. I thought you would have picked up my hints by now I have been dropping them all day 1. I am

Doctor

Julius Hibbert.

If you're town you're almost as dumb as Mist.

QFT

I still don't mind a DBE lynch carrying over from my thoughts yesterday but Nacho's lurking with rare comments interest me only because I know that's what he does as scum from experience. Anyone have town meta on him?

[KageLord]

I'm not liking a Hiraki lynch today. I agree that his play has been... not what is considered standard for town (and neither has mine), but not lynch-worthy at this point.

I'm more interested in hearing why Sens and DH supported the hammer without trying to confirm the neighborhood. Also, I want to know what Nacho's thinking.

And tvella hasn't posted for 12 days. >.>

Prev edit: Just because you are a Simpson doesn't mean that you have the same role. The way Mist said it (which was somewhat confusing) was that she could choose a family member to talk to. That means that it is probably initiated by Mist and the other family members don't know about the connection before they are chosen. What else do you think the "Family Man" part of the role flip flavor was about?

[KageLord]

Well, I didn't see the Family Man part of the flip, just the Springfieldian Cop part. I see your point, but you have to realize how naturally scummy it looked. Why does every mislynch need to bring to suspect the people near the hammer and not the people 2/3 through the wagon?

In this case, there is a very good reason: SHE CLAIMED A CONFIRMABLE ROLE!!!

People near my region of the wagon had not seen a claim (and I know that I personally only came back to the game after the lynch). The reason that the finger is being pointed more at you and Sens than someone in the middle is not because your vote was on someone that flipped town (there is nothing wrong with that in Mist's case), but that you called for a hammer on someone that had claimed cop (dangerous to lynch on D1) and neighbor (which could have been confirmed by the next day).

But seriously, it's the perfect opportune time to get in a mislynch. This does NOT include the claim and hammer; I don't think scum would be as dumb as to be vocal towards her lynch after the claim.

Playing as scum before, even as a moderately seasoned player, I find myself shutting up and letting the mislynch just happen

, and I expect the same out of others. It's normal human psychology.

Interesting you say you shut up and let the mislynch happen... almost as if you knew it would be a

mislynch

.

Are you being for real, jason? DH said

"as scum"

. Is there a time, in a game without 2 scum groups, that you are scum and don't know when a lynch is a mislynch? >.>

[KageLord]

*sigh* Now I actually have to read all this. And apparently there are some claims and a replacement or 2 in there, so I can't just skim.

At the moment (before reading the last 5-8 pages), I'm cool with DH (because, last I saw, he said some odd things I'd like to explore) or Nacho (mainly because he's lurking like I am, but that's practically scum meta for him) wagon. Maybe Darla again. Not Hiraki (I somehow think him town from what I've seen today), Fonz (are you guys for real with this one?), or jason (this is not because I think he's likely town but because I really don't feel like lynching a claimed doc after we just lost a cop).

As per Fluffy's orders, I'll plant a vote (likely to change when I get back) before reading.

VOTE: Nachomamma8[/unvote]

[KageLord]

Whoops. Just realized I was a dumbass with my tags.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

And interesting find there about Sotty and Llama, SA. I was worried I was only considering them from OMGUS gut reaction.

[KageLord]

KageLord(3)-sottyrulez, LlamaFluff, KageLord,

Oh noes! I'm voting myself! XD

I suspected self-loathing tendencies. Fixed.

[KageLord]

Ok...I just got through the day 1 lynch...Not one of you town-sided folk even bothered to say "Yeah, it's a Simpsons mafia with 24 players...so there's definitely a Homer Simpson in it....and ask for a counter on Mist's claim?


Side Note: I've actually played a Simpsons mafia before where Wiggum was a cop that got wrong investigations and Marge was the sheriff...so maybe that isn't that weird to me...but this does not change the fact that nobody countered Homer and not ONE person called it out...Talk about making it easy on the mafia. Sheesh.

lol notice that there were only 4-5 people there from claim to hammer. Anyway, this is what The Fonz was talking about earlier. Except I think he went so far as to say that the people who called for the hammer were scummy.

[KageLord]

Why is everyone still considering a mist wagon lynch? We have a nearly 50% chance to hit scum if we lynch the non mist voters.

Just by pure statistics alone, its a bad decision to do otherwise.

Could you explain the math used there? I'm pretty sure it's not so simple. I mean, technically, if there are no 3rd party roles, there is a 50% chance of hitting scum when lynching anyone. But, if you're talking about something different, I don't know how you can calculate so simply (since, given the sheer number of town players, it is always more likely that in any group of people you will hit town than scum).

[KageLord]

So since I have a ton of reading to do here (my own fault), I'm just going to comment on things as they come along:

And the neighbor thing could have been confirmed one way or the other that very night.

After reading to page 41, I have to say that I agree with you on this matter, but I don't see why you're so hung up on it. The obvious plan seems to be to go after the non-Mist voters and then (after hitting a couple of scum) looking back at who is still alive from the Mist wagon.

At the moment (before reading the last 5-8 pages), I'm cool with DH (because, last I saw, he said some odd things I'd like to explore) or Nacho (mainly because he's lurking like I am, but that's practically scum meta for him) wagon. Maybe Darla again. Not Hiraki (I somehow think him town from what I've seen today), Fonz (are you guys for real with this one?), or jason (this is not because I think he's likely town but because I really don't feel like lynching a claimed doc after we just lost a cop).

Please explain everything that you've said in this post pronto. The DH, my part, and the Jason part.

Erm... I explained it inside the post. But to clarify on DH, I was talking about the beginning of the DH-Fonz back and forth. However, after reading up to this point, I think I can see where DH was coming from (though I still almost completely agree with The Fonz on that). The townish read on you was more of a gut thing. I mean, I don't think you've helped town much at all (and neither have I, so I don't mean this to be accusing you of some great misconduct), but the tone of your posts is more frustrated and helpless town than scum.

To be honest, the quiet town Nacho meta is killing my desire to vote him. In my modded game, he was scum but worked his ass off.

Meh...I don't know.

Really? Because I was recently scum with him twice in a row and he lurked like hell (though he did do a bit more of what The Fonz said by posting something small once every prod period or two). After checking out Sotty's link I'm guessing that lurking isn't alignment-related for him.

Its like paranoid scum trying to push anything at his accusor

lololololol funny because I've noticed you doing that a lot too. In fact you do it in the post right after this one. I don't think you're scum for it, but it amuses me that it's what you seem to find a major scumtell.

You know, it might well be KageLord rather than Mariyta given the activity disparity. Putting in quite a lot of effort when the town isn't even thinking about lynching her is probably townish and makes me re-think my read on her. That said, OFF THE WAGON OFF THE WAGON OFF THE WAGON.

What wagon? The Tragedy wagon?

The Mist wagon. >.>

I would definitely go Benmage > Lowell > Tragedy right now. I'll have to do an ISO of Benmage next to figure out why my gut is telling me he's scum after reading all that I missed. Unfortunately it'll have to wait though since I'm going to be

V/LA Thursday - Saturday night

(probably be able to get back on Sunday afternoon).

[KageLord]

More catchup walls from kagelord. I really dont like catchup walls. Write them to yourself then pick the bits that are still relevant/important to comment on at the end!!!

More? Pretty sure that was my only one.

[KageLord]

Its like paranoid scum trying to push anything at his accusor

lololololol funny because I've noticed you doing that a lot too. In fact you do it in the post right after this one. I don't think you're scum for it, but it amuses me that it's what you seem to find a major scumtell.

Go back and read this game please, Kage. I have been saying Tragedy is scum long before he started saying I was scum. He was one of my earliest suspects in this game I believe, I had been saying I thought he was scum since Day 1. In-fact.. his reasons for voting me and suspecting me are nothing but OMGUS with no actual facts behind them.

So now, I am not doing that a lot too. I have posted my reasons as to why he is scum in my book. Tragedy only started saying I was scum when I started pushing him

It's not so much about you calling him scum (which is fine if you believe it), but the manner in which you try to prove it. Here are a couple of gems of what I'm talking about (note: not all of these are at an accuser, but still major stretches):

hmm noticeing the language used in that post..

NEED

him to get his vote off and realize his wrong doings...

apart from voting you what else is his wrong doings?
why does he NEED to get his vote off you?

@sottyrulez: Care for me to rephrase it? I have a scumread on Jason and Tragedy.

However, since Jason being scum makes Tragedy look town, my scumread on Tragedy is less so than my scumread on Jason.

Speaking of Tragedy, I really don't know what the heck he's doing anymore.

this is interesting....

However, since Jason being scum makes tragedy look town..

If I am scum, would that not mean you are bussing me as you seem to be indicating you already know I am scum .

But seriously, it's the perfect opportune time to get in a mislynch. This does NOT include the claim and hammer; I don't think scum would be as dumb as to be vocal towards her lynch after the claim.

Playing as scum before, even as a moderately seasoned player, I find myself shutting up and letting the mislynch just happen

, and I expect the same out of others. It's normal human psychology.

Interesting you say you shut up and let the mislynch happen... almost as if you knew it would be a

mislynch

.

Are you being for real, jason? DH said

"as scum"

.

Is there a time, in a game without 2 scum groups, that you are scum and don't know when a lynch is a mislynch?

>.>

I am aware he said as scum. I already said that... read next post.I still am a bit suspect of the post though.

interesting in the bold... are you saying there is two scum teams here, or you know there is not two scum teams?

6/22 scums.

If we reduce, you'd get 3/11 in a special case.

hmmm, how do you know there is 6 scum????? seems like inside info

If you want me to explain why any of those is ludicrous, just ask.

[KageLord]

Coolio. Good stuff today. Waiting on SH before vote.

2. Jason claimed doctor, for no good reason, and remained alive today. He was not even roleblocked. FAKECLAIM ALERT

While my suspicion has increased as well, certainly not to the point of lynching jason, how do you know he wasn't RBed?

[KageLord]

I protected Ben last night.

I'm still wondering why you haven't been roleblocked.

But fuck it. I don't think a Doctor claim EVER lives to LyLo, no matter what side he's on. So I apologize for pushing you so hard yesterday. If the scum want to leave an actual doctor alive, good for them. But your ambiguous status is extremely dangerous is LyLo, and in all brutal honesty you

need

to be lynched before then.

He will be lynched or killed before then, as long as we can guess when it is approaching.

VOTE: bobsnox

In other news, we still have pretty much confirmed scum here.

Also, Darla = double voter or what?

[KageLord]

My order is: diddin, Lowell, Wraith, Benmage. 3 of them are scum and the actual order is based on their ISOs.

What's up with the quickwagon though? It would be nice if everyone posted at least once before we got a lynch today. And, unless I missed something, Lowell still has to claim. Anyone that votes Wraith before then gets major scumpoints.

On the other hand, putting my money where my mouth is: VOTE: diddin

[KageLord]

I still don't think making it a 2-shot Sensor was a huge mistake. One shot is almost useless until right before endgame if the Scum are proportionally on the lynchwagon. Besides, I think we can all agree that a Sensor action is one of the best ones in the game; and for that reason I think that when either scumteam decided to leave me unkilled/unblocked the night after my 1-shot claim, they should have known that they were playing with fire. And after my 2nd shot was claimed, I think killing me was just a huge mistake.

Obvious bias, but I agree with this. Depending on how scum balanced out their votes, the sensor might have been much less game-breaking. And yeah, killing someone and thereby confirming their PR (when you are sure their power is gone) is probably not the best way to go. At least while he was still alive people might have doubted him.

Mods, was Sotty/Zach (don't remember which one said it) right in the dead QT about the cops being faction specific? If so, good balance. If not... that might be a balance issue. Two full cops, one of them a neighborizer, along with that 2-shot sensor makes town super-powered.

And Wraith, you asked in the dead QT why I didn't clear you the day you were lynched. It was mostly because I didn't like the idea of dead cop to save townie. My mostly under-the-radar playstyle made me think I probably wasn't going to die that night and town already had 2-3 scum in the bag after your flip. As it turns out, I was only killed due to my position on the two sensor wagons. I proved ineffective in part because town already had so much to go off of from the sensor, but if they cared to look back at the flipped cop's posts, they would see hints of an innocent on Hiraki and Consig, I think.

[KageLord]

And as it turns out, that ability would not guarantee that you neighborize town (i.e. it was possible to neighborize scum). We might have actually gotten a bit screwed over by that if Mist had lived and picked Abe to "confirm".