Mafia of the Chosen Ones (Game Over!)

[RayFrost]

Hi guys, I disapprove of quick lynching. The faith given to seraphs is great and all, but they won't be able to

use their freaking powers

if we lynch before they send in a PM, just like all the other players that aren't on during this that have powers. This isn't a good strategy since it's essentially random lynching and putting all the faith in the seraphs (hehehehe, puntastic).

I promote a less random, willy nilly approach. Like actually playing mafia. Who knows, it might be a good idea.

[RayFrost]

That's all I can post for now - bit busy with shiznit in real life. See yah guys when I get back. PLEASE don't quick lynch while I'm gone. It's not healthy for town, trust me.

[RayFrost]

Equi - I must've misread the multiple quickvotes after day two started as going for a fast lynch again.

[RayFrost]

Post for Andrius that I was typing before equi posted:

Seriously guys, the idea of quick lynching to hope for getting scum is stupid. I disapprove heavily. Saying "let's let the seraphs do all the work and not do anything but randomly lynch peoples and hope we get lucky" is the pinnacle of pro-scum play, in my opinion.

Regardless of the lack of PRs or such, continuing this path is beyond the edge of foolishness. I can (if stretching myself) understand D1, but the fact you are trying to extend this to D2 is bad (and you DO NOT KNOW if there are other PRs, IIRC - the mod hasn't confirmed either way).

[RayFrost]

Will post more later when I have time - off to plans today, see yah.

P.s. - I don't think that the lynch was necessarily pro-town as it helped scum as well via a non-scum lynch + a town kill over the night.

[RayFrost]

Voting when virtually nobody's posted? Yah, no thanks. See yah, for real this time.

[RayFrost]

Aaaand I'm back. Gonna catch up from when I last posted and get back to you guys.

[RayFrost]

Up to page 8:

Equi/Inhim/Magua/Fate/Andrius all read town to me. Of them, equi is the strongest town read (meta frm gme), and the list is in order of read strength.

Guderian looks more like newbie town that's trying to deal with fate while having distaste for fate's style less than scum in the Gud v Fate.

Done reading:

Babyspice looks bad but doesn't smell bad yet. The post reads more like IIoA to me, but I'm not sure on the alignment tell for that. Anybody got meta here? I would not be surprised if kito (sheeple) / mothrax / babyspice were scum (together or otherwise), but I feel strongest regarding mothrax.

Kito reads like sheep to me, currently leaning scum there but it's definitely not solid. Let's sheer the wool of this sheep to see the skin, shall we? Kito - present a case on your highest two scum reads and inform us as to your highest town read with reasoning.

Mothrax is an issue for me. I have yet to find his posts to be particularly good - his posts regarding gud just seem like convenience attacks rather than any real conviction. His case is a stretch at move - he's saying that gud is scum for feeling something is scummy that

people other than the person gud considers scummy

have explained as meta. This is just terrible reasoning that looks like a veneer used to cover the fact he's going with the popular target.

Babyspice's post had analysis only in the whole "did the QL help scum or town more" - the rest was just worthless information, and the vote was not backed up, and there is no apparent reasoning for it. I'm going to reserve judgment for now.

BabySpice:

What is your reasoning for voting mothrax? How is that good enough to choose him over someone that is uncertain for you (gud)?

[RayFrost]

Oh, whoops. Forgot my vote.

Vote: Mothrax

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add this too. What's this about timing?

[RayFrost]

Timing and sneaky? What? People need to explain this stuff to me. I'm not getting it.

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost:

You FoS Babyspice. Does it concern you that both of you are voting Mothrax?

Not at all. I think both are scummy, regardless of their vote choices. They could both be voting each other with me as a double voter with one vote on each of them, and I'd still be doing what I thought was best - voting scum. Scum can vote other scum (from my understanding, there's separate scumteams on the same side... assuming we are following MoHo) while not realizing it. This doesn't change the fact they are scum. We can't merely look for connections in this game, since there *is* the issue of the split scumteams that are not (immediately) aware of each other. As such, I promote baby spice's vote while still feeling that baby spice is scum.

Anyway, sleep time for me. Love you guys, try not to lynch without me (unless, of course, I get credit for being awesome enough to point out the scum that gets lynched, then I'm good)!

[RayFrost]

Andrius, to assume that the scum have been combined is a bad idea - better to avoid making such assumptions and play it like the scum groups are still separate so you can avoid the pure focus on connections and assess the individual scumminess of players.

Vote; RF

- His "I don't think we should quicklynch" spieil means he's scum because its just so completely stupid and begging for people to see town tells in it. (plus I'd expected scum to leap at it if he was town.)

Unvote

Vote; Guderian

I think this is a good wagon.

Also; Does anybody here have the ability to read Fate?

... what?

This entire post is pathetic. My "I don't think we should quicklynch" posting was a sincere reaction to seeing (in my mind) a mindless QL happen D1 and then another one being started up D2 - D1 I could stretch to accept as a good idea, but another one on D2 was just ridiculous, and I did not want it to happen. How, exactly, is this begging people to see town tells in it?

The "I'd expect scum to jump on this" is just out of place for me.

You

are jumping on it, even if you are jumping straight off in the same post.

That aside, your gud vote is terrible by virtue of the fact it's 98% "lolbigwagon!VOTE!" and 2% "tryingtolookgood!"

[RayFrost]

Nacho: Do you feel that the single post by magua is scummier than the evidence presented against gud/mothrax/spice/kitoari? How is it that big of a deal?

[RayFrost]

@ RF: I've only ever seen Baby Spice as scum, so.

Is spice playing like she did as scum? I can probably find a town game with relative ease to read, but knowing scum-meta will quicken the process for me as well.

[RayFrost]

Anyway, that's all for this post spurt. Hearts and loves and tater tots!

[RayFrost]

I'd like to sort some things out before I get into the meat of my posting for this spurt:

I

did not keep pushing

the idea that multiple QLs were going to happen. I took the extremely quick voting early on D2 (equi and andrius both voted in a short span of time) to be a signal of another QL going down, which I did not approve of As soon as equi explained otherwise, I was fine. To say that I've been pushing it continually (when I did so ONCE) is misrepresentation of the situation.

Katsuki: multiple QLs are not happening, so you should change your focus to something actually useful like, y'know, finding scum.

[RayFrost]

I think magua addresses the issue with your thought process rather well. Magua-post aside, who do you think is scum? Why?

Two things: if we are going the same as in MoHo, then there are two scumteams that are unaware of each other's identity (same *team* but split apart into two segments that know each other exist). So operating under the idea that there are two scumteams (rather than assuming the scumseraph merged the terms immediately as andrius is doing) is best. Secondly, citation needed for calling me FoS worthy.

All this aside...

It is the opinion of RayFrost that this discussion about whether the quicklynch wa bad or good play is doing nothing in actually finding scum. It is RayFrost's proposal that everybody should "stop focusing on that crap and get to scumhunting." I agree with his proposal by virtue of the fact discussing whether a decision made was good/bad play is not helpful.

[RayFrost]

Spice: Quicklynch aside, who do you think is scum? Why?

[RayFrost]

So you don't find

anybody else in this game

to be suspicious? I find that to be... suspicious.

[RayFrost]

Hi guys, I disapprove of quick lynching. The faith given to seraphs is great and all, but they won't be able to use their freaking powers if we lynch before they send in a PM, just like all the other players that aren't on during this that have powers. This isn't a good strategy since it's essentially random lynching and putting all the faith in the seraphs (hehehehe, puntastic).

I promote a less random, willy nilly approach. Like actually playing mafia. Who knows, it might be a good idea.

Post for Andrius that I was typing before equi posted:

Seriously guys, the idea of quick lynching to hope for getting scum is stupid. I disapprove heavily. Saying "let's let the seraphs do all the work and not do anything but randomly lynch peoples and hope we get lucky" is the pinnacle of pro-scum play, in my opinion.

Regardless of the lack of PRs or such, continuing this path is beyond the edge of foolishness. I can (if stretching myself) understand D1, but the fact you are trying to extend this to D2 is bad (and you DO NOT KNOW if there are other PRs, IIRC - the mod hasn't confirmed either way).

To say that I've been pushing it continually (when I did so ONCE) is misrepresentation of the situation.

Third quote still applies. Two different posts in the same stream != pushing it multiple times. Kthxbai

[RayFrost]

End of first stream of posts

End second

End and start of third

Fourth

Fifth

Begin/end sixth

This post = currently last in seventh

[RayFrost]

Hint: if posts are within less than 10 minutes of each other, then you might possibly consider them being part of a stream of posts. Just a thought.

Hint #2: If I say "end of this stream / going to sleep / see yah for now" after posting a lot, there just might be a somewhat large chance of that being the end of a stream of posts

Just a thought.

[RayFrost]

Nacho: Why

isn't

gud scum? You are telling us to tell you why gud is scum, but the case(s) have already been laid out. How about countering them if you disagree rather than telling us to just restate them?

[RayFrost]

Oh, must've missed that. I blame just waking up.

I'm going to assume from your vote on kitoari that you think he's scummier than gud. Do you feel that either of them going away from the thread is scummy? (I personally do not, but they have enough scummy behavior elsewhere for that to be moot, imo)

[RayFrost]

For empking: End of stream seven

This post is the end of stream eight. I shall be going somewhere that will keep me there until 6 PM, it is currently 10 AM.

Toodles, strudels, and oodles.

[RayFrost]

For Empking: This is the start of stream 9.

...how is this not obvious?

Well because bananas cause the rollerskate (OR because Rayfrost just made up a term and I'm not privy to his inner most thoughts.

Definition 2a. Please, do say I'm making shit up in the future so I can educate you on what words mean.

[RayFrost]

I do not approve of agar voting. He hasn't posted in this game, but that may be due to the fact the mod said the game started via the signup thread rather than sending out a PM to all the players with a link to the game thread. I've had instances where this happened, which is why I did not have the issue this game, but AGar has not suffered from this within my knowledge. To say that he's scummy for being, almost certainly, unaware the game's even started is poor. At least give him the opportunity to post so we can assess his alignment based off of his play.

[RayFrost]

VV calling me scummy but then not backing it up at all when asked about that is noted.

[RayFrost]

Fate & Andrius:

Answer the question(s).

Katsuki makes no sense to me. Does anybody have meta for this?

[RayFrost]

I assume this means you like mothrax. Can you explain what makes you think mothrax is town over what I've said that makes me suspect him?

[RayFrost]

This is the end of stream nine.

I'd like to

Unvote

and

Grant Godly Powers To: Vi

for being clearly obv town. Definitely deserves a scummy for the play this far in finding scum.

I'd like to then

Rain Holy Fire Upon: Nobody

for now, as I'm deciding whether I want mothrax or kitoari or gud to die today. I think they all need to die, but it's a matter of

which one needs to die first

.

[RayFrost]

Post or perish, quoth the retired goderator known as Meme.

P.s.: beginning and end of post stream 10 = this post.

[RayFrost]

I guess you're just pedantic, then?

Stream of posts #11 start

[RayFrost]

Stream of posts #12

Agree on relying on MoHo.

Disagree that I was trying to derail anything - I stated

my reasoning

for not being particularly suspicious of gud rather than that he wasn't suspect or anyting of the sort. Nor have I tried to dissaude people from that direction.

When you say "Baby SPice needs more focus from me" does that mean you find spice suspect or that you forgot to pay much attention to spice's posts and hence need to read them again?

[RayFrost]

I agree that looking at MoHO too much is the wrong direction. For example there are no lights or shadows thus far plus we've seen the new "165 faith" power. Saying that, I think we can presume that the town seraphs get more of the battery boost and stuff like that.

"Saying that we can't rely on the previous game, we can totally tell the seraphs are getting more battery boosts" - Empking

I fail to follow this logic.

[RayFrost]

I like how empking chooses to focus on a single comment in equinox's post and ignores all the other stuff that looks rather directly related.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: directly related to him.

Blast the unfinished sentences at 4 AM

[RayFrost]

End twelfth stream of posts.

I'm going to sleep.

[RayFrost]

Stream of posts # <current = previous + 1>

I do not agree with magua-scum assessments. I feel no attempts at misleading / deception / etc from his posts. I've got really good instincts for such things.

I can get with the kito-lynch, but I'd like more AGar posts and for furcolow to finish his catch up before I decide on this (I really really really want reads on them first)

VV's starting to look better.

[RayFrost]

Hay Jack, since you're here... how about you tell us your

top four

for scum?

[RayFrost]

1: My argument was not that faith was pro-scum/anti-town, so to ask your first question is, at best, a misunderstanding of my post and, at worst, a deliberate attempt to misrepresent my stance in order to make it seem scummy. I was against

multiple quick lynches

. The first QL had already gone through, and (if you read a post later by me) I thought there was going to be another. A second QL = bad, bad, bad, and I said as much. Equi explained that it wasn't happening, I moved on.

2: What? I haven't been lurking. All I even said there was that I'd not be posting for a bit. I've been saying at the end of each of my post streams that I am going to go (at least... most of the early ones) for a while. This is not an attempt to excuse lurking. If I'm lurking, you can feel free to lynch me. First, though, you'd have to prove that I'm lurking and not, oh I dunno...

having a life outside MS when you are on

. Keep time zones in mind.

3: Read the end of #1. Also consider reading the start of that post and the post came before it. Skimming loses some context. You should try to avoid it when catching up.

Dislike furcolow's "Fate's scummy for thinking differently" stance. Different opinions != auto-scum

"A slip from one of my suspects![/ur] But totally not scummy. Does not compute. Reading through, I see equinox makes a similar point.

[RayFrost]

Are any of your reads here correlated? By this I am asking if the flip of one affects the scum/town position of another.

Also, end stream of posts # <current = previous + 1>

P-edit: Jack made me laugh.

[RayFrost]

Still disagree with magua lynch. I believe that he's town and will not budge from this position.

Empking: I could've sworn I had unvoted Aside from that, kitoari was extremely close to lynch at a time when I still wanted posts from furcolow/agar to get reads, so why would I vote to end the day when I still wanted info?

[RayFrost]

The "angryfaec" should be : x, totally different.

Anyway, end of stream of posts # 13, I think. 2 AM here.

[RayFrost]

Um, what? Are you seriously saying that I'm suppose to simply let a lynch happen on someone that I think is town? Since when has this ever been a good idea? I HAVE A TOWN READ ON MAGUA. AS SUCH, I DISAGREE WITH LYNCHING HIM. Why in the ninety four hells would I

not

stae that I dislie a magua lynch?

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:

not state that I dislike

Stupid typos.

[RayFrost]

Between guderian and baby spice, I feel that BS is more likely to be town. A quick search through the meta gives me the feeling that BS is non-scum. (I haven't had time for an exhaustive read through of BS' posts for analysis, but some skimming has been done)

I do not want a magua lynch.

Result:

Vote: Guderian

- felt he was scummy before, and meta on BS is making me lean towards town over scum.

Kitoari scum was almost certainly bussed. I'm currently unsure as to who would've done the bussing at this time, but I'll get back to you guys on that.

[RayFrost]

Of those, I could go with all but magua, who I think is town. I prefer katsuki over ss, as she was who I first had doubts about vote-wise.

p.s. - you mistyped singersigner's username.

Anyway, going to the store and then coming back. See yah, much love and frisbies for you all.

[RayFrost]

Unvote

Want votecount to avoid any accidental/deliberate hammers.

[RayFrost]

Do I see

two

glows on me? *goes back to read moho to see what this means*

[RayFrost]

Aaahhh, so it's something used for emphasis of a read. Cool.

[RayFrost]

Wait, if there are two separate instances, that'd mean the seraph did it to the same post twice or the scum an town seraphs both did it. Does not compute.

[RayFrost]

How do you think Magua is town? He's been a consistent null read for me this whole time.

Doesn't simply rub dirt on me - tries to get me to do something that's info-contributing.

End of post stuff follows a simple enough train of thought that feels pro-town. There's no real reason for scum to be analyzing this and posting it.

The question to me is something that could help with alignment deduction, and his posting toward katsuki here oesn't seem like point scoring or similar.

Again, actively targeting things worth questioning and pushing at them.

Cases like the one nacho presents here that magua reacts with a simple defense without any form of omgus or attempt to discredit also feels town over scum. Nacho's reasoning was terribad, magua reacted how I believe a townie would act.

Correcting katsuki but trying to get katsuki to contribute to scumhunting rather than going "omg scumz0rz!11one!" when it'd have been easy to do so is ++townread.

The list of reads feels like slightly inexperienced with LoS type town.

Misused lynch in his previous post, but his thought process supports his original idea that katsuki was easy to have a vote sitting on, etc.

Fixed tag. ~Vi

[RayFrost]

Mod: Will you fix my url tag? Please and thank you.

[RayFrost]

BS - how does

magua's post

getting a smoke count to VV being scum according to whoever did that?

[RayFrost]

I'd like a replacement for guderian so I can get a better read - lynching gud based off of such a small sample size of posts seems poor relatively to letting a replacement come in to see if it was just gud-bad-play or something. Gonna go now, see yah

[RayFrost]

I disagree with your AGar-scum assessment, fate.

1. I've played with AGar a few times, modded a game with him in it (offsite), etc. His play so far is definitely more indicative of a slump / business than of alignment.

2. His ideas regarding moho may be inaccurate, but this is not a scumtell - it's a representation of his opinion of the major issue that game.

That said, I

would

like to see AGar reply to the points laid out against him.

[RayFrost]

Ohaithar furcolow

[RayFrost]

I suppose I should have said "respond to my point" instead of linking to it, eh? If you are going to merely avoid arguing your case, then you are admitting that your vote is based off of completely crap reasoning and is parked just to avoid being on the current likely lynch (aka: gud).

Thanks for at least not trying to hide the fact your vote is a throw away. Now I know who to look at next.

p.s. - you can make it easier for all of us by saying who your buddies are.

[RayFrost]

Sooo... how do you decide that somebody is 100% for sure, unequivocally scum? Try showing how you are s certain on me. I'm sure you've thought about this enough to come up with something other than "omg, you are telling people to not lynch one of your town reads."

There's no hostility, as I feel no rage or somesuch. This is how I play. Got a problem with it?

I'd be willing to stick my neck out for this lynch just as much as I would be with any lynch on someone I thought was scummy.

[RayFrost]

You're not making any sense, Furcolow.

You're kept around because you're mislynch fodder in LyLo.

I'll try if you try.
And I'd appreciate it if you didn't multi-post. Like ten in a row.

I reeeeaally feel like there's something off with this post.

Like... there was, like, this slipper slope and l, like, totally saw andrius like walk down it and like

fall on his ass

.

Totally awesome fall, too. Help me out guys. What's off with this post?

[RayFrost]

Furc is town, even if he's not been particularly useful. I don't see the kill(s) on AGar and rhinox to be particularly vig-y, considering that the first was on D1. I don't think it's likely that a vig is the killer / that the vig has multiple kill flavors.

IIRC from Moho, the separate scumteams could not kill a targeted demon, so that is a possibility (just checked and yes, this is truefax) along with the option of attempted the impossible being a scum NK (doubtful). Whether or not this is what happened, it's rather unimportant, as we can't exactly make use of this information in any way.

As for who is scum... I'd support a BS lynch the most, followed by mothrax/katsuki (tied).

Vote: BS

Don't have time as of current to really be supahactivewtflolawesome like I usually am. Don't worry, I'll still be wtflolawesome, just not as active in the coolness.

Hugs, tugs, and feather boas.

[RayFrost]

Follow me, ye of faith. Follow me unto the ancient realms of the nether to slay the spiciest, sauciest, and youngest demoness to penetrate our battlefield! Let us reject those of corruption and evil, casting them into the void! Follow me, follow me, in the act of purging ourselves of the impurities and sorrow brought upon us by these fell demons! Let us rise up, saving ourselves with the odds so stacked against us! Join me, my brethren, in the righteous act of salvation in cleansing the world of the evil that is Baby Spice!

[RayFrost]

Reasoning is tech. Try adding some.

Dislike this method of argumentation - we are not cloe to deadline. How is this an issue? Not replying to his actual points and trying to simple distract from them is scummy.

Rereading fate-wall to reply and show him why he's wrong at the moment.

[RayFrost]

Fucking damn it Andrius. I don't have time for this:
FURCOLOW IS SCUM ABUSING HIS META:

katsuki is bored town
mothrax is "snarky town", i believe it was called?

Guderian is troll-town

ray seems like snarky town in his latest post
i'll hammer, as replacing into this mess might be worse for the wear

vote: gud

two hammers in one day? priceless.

He shifts his reads whenever he fucking feels like it so he can place his vote wherever he wants.

Valid point - would like to see furc reply to this. (also would like to note that furc called mothrax snarky town when he's (mothrax) vastly different in game play style from me, so there is absolutely no way for him to be snarky town while I am the same)

OH HAI KATSUKI AND VV.

LOOK AT ALL THE DELICIOUS CONTENT.

KITOARI IS BASICALLY CONFIRMED SCUM

WITH GUDERIAN.

with me

MOTHRAX IS INDEED MUCH TOWNIER THAN WHEN HE WAS A SCUMBAG THREE GAMES IN A ROW.

with me being you
i fixed it for you
but you know that too
thats why you slipped foo

He links his buddies to whoever he wants.

Furc saying he thinks you are scum != scummy behavior. Simply an incorrect read.

I feel this is a post appearing to be pro-town when it is actually scum-driven tactics being pawned off in a post that is faking towniness... what I mean to say is this post feels forced. I am posting this seperate from the wall I'm going to be posting responding to things, because I want to hear peoples opinions on it.

Andrius, what is your opinion on the above post in terms of two things:
one) do you agree or disagree with the faith being pro-town? I agree with you, personally, and
two) do you feel like the above post is forced? Go is not implemented yet.

HE TRIES TO GET A RAYFROST LYNCH MOVING INSTEAD OF KITOARI'S, A WAGON THAT HAD BECOME UNSTOPPABLE AT THAT POINT AND HE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO HOP ON WITH WEAK REASONING HERE "derp <3 wagons" which TRANSITIONED INTO A "oh I like where my vote is" TO A "CAN WELYNCH RAYFROSTY PLZ"

Acting stupid != being scum.

TO:

Trying to bandwagon = Guderian is likely town = Kitoari is scum wagonning here

and 3 scum so far:

Scum:
Jack #22
Magua for Magua vs IHSIB
Fate, for defending Magua when he was being pressured calling it "town on town" and buddying Andrius
Kitoari for bandwagonning because of [redacted] when, it is of my opinion, the guy was posting as a hurt townie
the guy being Guderian

I'm liking where my vote is so far

Note the bolded, AGAIN, with THE FACT HE HAMMERED GUDERIAN TOWN, in mind.

Also note the way he said "I have 3 scum reads" but thenn listed four people. Its almost like he threw in Kitoari in there as an AFTERTHOUGHT, aka an "I forgot about my suspicion of my buddy.

His reasoning for hammer was bad. I still don't see how this makes him scum. He goes "nobody should replace into this mess, let's spare someone the trouble" - he wasn't arguing that gud was scum.

It looks more to me like the Jack suspicion is a veneer to make it seem like he has some form of original thought, so your reason for finding it scummy is wrong, hence making your argument wrong even if the belief is correct in this case. :/ GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT FIRST, THEN MAKE THE DAMN CASE.

VV's 222 has me lumping him with Andrius in the "confused townie" category

Lumping his buddy (VV) into a category with no LOGICAL BASIS. How the fuck is Andrius a confused townie? And VV"s confusion was OBVIOUSLY FAKED AND FURC IS OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO SUPPORT IT.

VV/Furc/Katsuki. Money in the fuckin bank.

Furc. Logical basis. Does not compute. Also, this little ditty explains magua saying you are going for katsuki. Stop rage-ing and look at your posts. Rage comes AFTER you make sense. Otherwise, it's just gambling - not even throwing the dice to fate.

rayfrost must die
vote: rayfrost
magua lynch is WIFOM
rayfrost defending him is $

Note him trying to push RayFrost for later.

If Guderian wasn't being replaced, sure, I might hop on. I love a good bandwagon.

Note, ONCE AGAIN, with the hammer in mind.

SOME HAMMERS ON TOWN ARE JUST TOO DELICIOUS FOR SCUM TO PASS UP.
THIS OBVIOUSLY WAS THE CASE HERE.

Hammer on bad-town rather than trying to keep it as a mislynch / staying off of it to maintain some form of brownie points = too delicious for scum? Gud was going to be lynched regardless of furc's vote. I fail to see how it was delicious.

or, we could lynch scum

vote: empking

^Confirms Empking as the vig shot.

Furc's earlier posts about AGar seems to read that he respects him as a player greatly. AGar is JUST the sort of terribad scumkill I can see Furcolow making because "HE MIGHT BE PRZ GUIZ" and VV and Katsuki being too V/LA slash Wimps to argue with him.

YES I CAN READ THE SCUM QTS.

I"M FUCKING PSYCHIC REMEMBER.

ISO 31-49 is just fucking NOISE and CLUTTER which is anti-town as ALWAYS, but doing it is also a valid scumtactic if you look closely at just how utterly POINTLESS some of these posts are (like votign no lynch). They just SCREAM of trying to make himself unreadable.

... so scum controls the vig? Your reasoning here is no make sense.

I fail to see how they'd need to argue with him - AGar's been practically not here.

Noise and clutter. And you are psychic enough to know furc isn't just being his usual terribadplay self and is instead directly matching his meta play for play to seem worthless and just coast. If he's really bad enough to be obvious, then he'll slip. If they aren't bad enough, then point out how his play is subtly good rather than just going "the meta is a lie!" This isn't portal.

like me
i would be great
scum wouldnt nightkill me
and i could protect fate
don't you believe in fate?

Fucking appeal to popularity. "I'll protect Fate don;t you like Fate? I'm useful I dun wanna die." HE DOESNT WANT TO DIE THATS WHY HE WILL.


I ALREADY STATED WHY I THINK KATSUKI IS HIS BUDDY, CAUSE KATSUKI WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO BUS FURC (SPECIALLY SINCE IT LOOKED LIKE I HAD A GUILTY ON HIM) TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK BETTER IN MY EYES.[/quote]

How is that appeal to popularity? Seems like worthless "gimme powahs" post from a VI to me.

"Katsuki is his buddy" ... later post: "What's this about katsuki? I CLEARLY SAY I THINK IT IS ANDRIUS + VV + FURCOLOW!!1!one!1o1one1!" ... I have issues here with your posting fate.

UNVOTE:
CONFIRM VOTE: FURCOLOW

LET'S GET THIS SHIT DONE NOW THAT YOU'VE GONE AND MADE ME POST ALL THIS INSTEAD OF JUST WAGONING ONTO KATSUKI AND THEN MAKING THE CONNECTIONS AFTER KATS-FLIP.

I THINK NACHO AND BABY AND AGM AND A COUPLE OTHER NULL READS FIT ONTO THE OTHER TEAM QUITE NICELY.

"YOU MADE ME DO THIS" - no.

Also, connectoin via living players = bad play

"Null reads clearly scumzorz" - assumptions are bad.

Fate's a good guy and town and all, but he's still wrong. Furcolow is town. BS

is

scum, so fate got something right in his post other than Katsuki-scum. Let's all go with Fate when he says BS fits "onto the other team" instead of voting obv-town in furc, shall we?

Quote tag fixed. ~Vi

[RayFrost]

Mod: Can you please fix my quote tag(s)? It may be a bit hard, but the post is practically unreadable without the fix

[RayFrost]

Also:

Mod: Does a glow/smoke count as targeting a player / is this an exception to the rule?

I think this answer can be found by looking at MoHO. ~Vi

[RayFrost]

> BabySpice is not dead.
> RayFrost is not happy.

Vote, double vote, and triple vote: babyspice

[RayFrost]

BS - read my reason to unvoting off of gud before emphasizing it as some great lynch-dodge.

Vezok lynch happened before I even came online.

Kitoari stuff

My lack of doing a lot of votes is maybe, just maybe, due to the fact I've had a rather consistent read on most people (the people shifting around up/down are my null reads, my original town/scum reads are hardly changing at all - fate's slipping for me, but that's about it).

I hardly see how my vote is parked on you, though. :/ I think you are scum, I want people to lynch you. I am saying as much - the fact I don't have time to write a case is bugging me.

[RayFrost]

I will join the katsuki lynch if people aren't going to even look at BS but come on people.

The spice is scummy. Can't you tell by the smell? Too strong to be human! Must be demonic!

[RayFrost]

Mothrax is scum on the katsuki wagon. Kat wagon has been stalled enough for me to feel that it is not scum-desired, considering that such a lynch would be a beautiful mislynch for scum to simply go with - no-content poster = no connections = free mislynch.

As such, I feel that katsuki may be scum that was granted a power /poiontlessspeculation

But... I feel that katsuki is scum at this point, and nobody will listen to me as I howl for the lynch of babyspice. I believe someone offered katsuki for BS. I will take this deal. BS DIES TOMORROW. Or over twilight. Preferably twilight, so we don't need to waste time lynching obvscum.

[RayFrost]

On the second day of Frostfall, my true love gave to me...

two people seeing bs scum and a

vote: katsuki

[RayFrost]

Vote Count XVI:

Alas, Katsuki

Katsuki (L-2) ~ Jack,

mothrax, Furcolow,

Nachomamma8, Fate, inHimshallibe, mothrax, Furcolow

Scum: Mothrax, nacho.

Town: Fate, furcolow

Neutral leaning town: inhim

Neutral leaning scum: Jack

[RayFrost]

tERRIBAD POST HERE.........

pOST NOT REALLY SAYING ANYTHING HERE.........

See? I can do it, too.

[RayFrost]

yeahhhhhhhhh fate is not townnn.

Reasoning is tech.

[RayFrost]

Then again, so is pro-town play, but I guess you aren't very tech-y.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Babyspice

Still scum.

Fate flip is omfgwtfbbq, but it says a

lot

about other players in this game. I need to reassess my reads (except for BS-obvscum).

[RayFrost]

Factional Kill - During each odd-numbered Day you may choose a living player. That player will die at the end of the Day. Kill flavor is "corrupted". This kill will fail if it resolves on a Demon.

Someone mentioned scum targeting fate as the reason for his death. I kinda can't see how.

[RayFrost]

And Andy, with what appears to be an even day vig hitting two fairly obvtown players, and not Furc, Kat, or myself, I'd say the vig was scum.

>Saying AGar was obvtown
>Lolscumslip - AGar didn't even come close to posting enough to be obvtown

[RayFrost]

What did you just say? Furcolow is... what?

Along with myself, living proof that there is a scum vig

>Scum vig
>Existed from D1
>Sense ithnt maketh this not yes titular?

[RayFrost]

>Lolscumslip - AGar didn't even come close to posting enough to be obvtown

and exactly where have I said in any way shape or form that I believe that Agar was a vig hit?

This plus This plus This

Oh, nevermind. You think

sniped

is the vig power. 'kay. Just got tht. Where does the scum NK fit in all this, then?

[RayFrost]

Factional Kill - During each odd-numbered Day you may choose a living player. That player will die at the end of the Day. Kill flavor is "corrupted". This kill will fail if it resolves on a Demon.

Someone mentioned scum targeting fate as the reason for his death. I kinda can't see how.

Quoting again for those who think that scum hit each other with their NK.

[RayFrost]

Mothrax: Do you agree or disagree that "Attempted the impossible" is the scum NK.

If agree, then how else would you explain Fate's death?

If disagree, how would you explain two NK's not happening, given that the second one was after the town doc was dead?
That latter case would also imply that a vig took out Rhinox before he could post in the game which I do not see as a town action. Which leads to a scum vig taking ouf Fate. Again showing that the teams mustn't be joined.

Basically, ScumFate must have been killed by scum.

And I already quoted the post by Vi that essentially makes the above impossible. Pro-town vig play is to

shoot every chance

with a few exceptions.

Which means I'm suspicious of those who have been pushing the opposite ideas and misreps through most of the last few days.

Which reminds me:

FOS RayFrost

Three mis-reps and then you claim to understand what I've been saying, all in the same post.

Personally, I suspect the order to kill Fate and the order to join the factions both happened yesterday which is what lead to Fates flip being how it was. (Well obviously the order to kill Fate happened yesterday)

Lol. I was typing that post before the post of yours the was right above it - the fact I understood you after I read your ninja post doesn't make it a misrep. It makes it a misunderstanding. Learn the difference.

Also, your idea regarding fate essentially says that fate was joined and that scum killed their own - something that any semi-competent mod would prevent happening, considering the fact that allowing scum to kill their own team while making them unaware of part of their team makes it possible for (assuming 2 double manned scumteams and a vig) the game to end in a single day/night phase. Too broken/swingy/etc. Your idea, from merely a balance perspective, is simply not possible. Not even bastard mod games would be so extreme.

[RayFrost]

Also, BS not replying to my question but calling me suspect for the post where I ask the question is noted. ++scumpoints.

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost, I have read that last bullet like five times and I don't get it... Rephrase?

"The above bullet points are illogical" - I made the point that they make no sense by making no sense.

[RayFrost]

Mothrax: Do you agree or disagree that "Attempted the impossible" is the scum NK.

If agree, then how else would you explain Fate's death?

If disagree, how would you explain two NK's not happening, given that the second one was after the town doc was dead?
That latter case would also imply that a vig took out Rhinox before he could post in the game which I do not see as a town action. Which leads to a scum vig taking ouf Fate. Again showing that the teams mustn't be joined.

To clarify my point regarding "attempted the impossible" being impossible as the scum NK - SCUM CAN NT KILL EACH OTHER WITHOUT THIS GAME BEING WAY TOO SWINGY. Assuming seraph gift of vig, proper scum lynch, vig hit scum, and the remaining two scum cross kill, the game could end in a single night phase, meaning that attempted the impossible

can't

be the NK. Vi's a better mod than that.

Your disagree is not taking in all the facts. 1. Scum could have hit each other (already showed this would result in a no-kill from prevoius game and showing how it's necessary for game balance). 2. It is possible that any of the kill flavors could be the scum kill. 3. It is possible that one of the people that died was targeted twice and the mod has a set layout for the flavor of the kill in that instance (perhaps in the order of deathheadings in the op).

Vig taking out rhinox before he could post? Meh, not scummy to do. Kill someone you think would be too good as scum to let live on N0/1 saves town from that possibility. It's possible that there is a scum vig, but it's also possible that there is a town vig. Hell, it's even possible that there is a SK. Fact of the matter is... there is no evidence that there is a scum vig. Your argumentation for it seems like scum that made a slip about info they have that is not trying to make up a BS (heh, pun) faillogic explanation. You and your scumbuddies are going to need some better lies than this.

Vote: BabySpice

For emphasis.

[RayFrost]

That is now rather than that is not.

Can't believe I made that typo... AGAIN.

[RayFrost]

Do you know what else would be cool?

A damned babyspice lynch. Hop to it, peons.

[RayFrost]

You weren't.

Be happy that you are now.

[RayFrost]

To clarify my point regarding "attempted the impossible" being impossible as the scum NK - SCUM CAN NT KILL EACH OTHER WITHOUT THIS GAME BEING WAY TOO SWINGY. Assuming seraph gift of vig, proper scum lynch, vig hit scum, and the remaining two scum cross kill, the game could end in a single night phase, meaning that attempted the impossible

can't

be the NK. Vi's a better mod than that.

Given the fact it isn't even balanced for attempted the impossible to be the scum NK thanks to a fate kill, where does the scum nk fit into your analysis, BS?

[RayFrost]

SS is scummy, but BS is scum. My advice? Lynch BS.

That said, the seraph (hito) said that

andrius is CONFIRMED TOWN

. This implies some information that I don't think we should be asking about. Let's move away from this topic slowly. And then lynch BS.

Please, explain to me how THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ENTIRE SCUM TEAM DYING IN A SINGLE NIGHT makes any sense from the perspective of balance. Enlighten me, as this is what you'd be saying if the attempted the impossible kill was a scum

any night

NK. Emphasis on the any night as that implies the game mechanics are vastly different from Moho (which this game, in case you didn't realize yet, is based on).

[RayFrost]

@ Hito: A seraph is not a god. A seraph is merely a First Class Angel of Awesome. Close enough, though.

Also, are you allowed to, I dunno... give some cases for us to understand your reasoning behind your associations and shiznit? Just saying "connectionz be existin' yo" doesn't exactly convince me regarding VV. I can already see SS, and I've been howling for BS long since.

If you were forced to cast the seraph kill on one of your three scumspects, which would you choose? What does people not posting during the D1 quicklynch tell you about them? It seems null to me - multi-man scumteams an sich + people can be present without posting. Besides that, do you have absolute confirmation that scum did not perform a NK during the first night? As I have already showed, it is possible that scum hit scum on the other team for a null effect.

[RayFrost]

Oh, I just realized something.

Do we actually have confirmation that you are the town seraph? I checked moho, and it's actually cheaper for scum to use communion, and it is a power available to them, so I don't see any direct evidence that

you are the town seraph

.

[RayFrost]

Part of the reason I bring this up is the fact your listed suspects are p. much all very common reads across the whole game. You haven't provided any sort of reasoning for your cases (Aside from the slightly lawlwut reasoning behind AGM-SK logic).

[RayFrost]

Also, do you have any

town reads

you want to share?

[RayFrost]

Scum have access to halos too. Confirms nothing.

[RayFrost]

Point for hito to consider regarding AGM:

Equinox was alive D2. Equinox was doc D2. This is as simple an explanation for the lack of a kill by the SK as AGM-SK that was away.

Furc: double halo is merely the granting of a simple halo and the granting of an improved halo back to back...

[RayFrost]

Oh. I must have overlooked that due to extreme nonsense. It's a baseless assumption, considering the fact that it's allowed in Moho.

[RayFrost]

Wanna know why I've got such "intricate knowledge" of this stuff? I read this entire fucking post where Vi outlines

all

of the powers available to both seraphs. I'm just assuming that Vi didn't change anything drastically from Moho. I may be wrong, but I doubt that Vi would change the fact scum have/had access to halos when it's something that wasn't majorly used in moho and certainly wasn't a power that made anything imbalanced.

[RayFrost]

As for the scum NK failing to resolve, I've already outlined how it's simply ridiculous from a balance perspective to allow scum to NK their teammates by accident.

[RayFrost]

Simply put, hito has presented

no evidence whatsoever

to show that he is the town seraph, and he has also failed to present any proof that scum are incapable of doing these things or even provide some logical backing to how it makes sense.

[RayFrost]

Sorry, I meant

was not used a lot by scum

in Moho, making taking it away rather pointless.

How am I acting anti-town, exactly?

P.s. - sleep for me, have a hug, a kiss, and a chocolate yam. (all of these are foods, google hershey's hugs/kisses for evidence)

[RayFrost]

who is to say it isn't a contrived misrepresentation Andrius is fully capable of pulling off?
You have to take that kind of thing with a grain of salt.

My saying "don't make assumptions that hito is town" = not giving a grain of salt with this? I'm not saying "omfg, hito is the scum seraph" - I'm saying "Hito, I don't see evidence for you being the town seraph, can you provide some?" I also asked some other questions. Do you feel they are bad/scummy/etc or are you just focusing on a

single point I made

and blowing it up into a big whole thing about how I'm being paranoid and anti-town? Seems like the latter over the former. Hows abouts you take two grains of salt and see me when I wake up, mmkay?

[RayFrost]

BS, ss, nacho.

In that order.

[RayFrost]

why not VV and then you could be like SS sheeping hito's reads while not providing any input nor admitting you're sheeping hito's reads

1. I gave my BS read long before hito spoke unto us
2. I gave my ss read yesterday, which is also before hito spoke unto us
3. I don't see the case on VV as particularly convincing now that I've read it and did not see a case on VV beforehand

Fail to see how my giving three reads in a quick post before I go to sleep is not providing input and a great sin. If you want reasoning, you can go back to previous posts regarding BS or ask regarding the two others who I don't really want lynched right now because BS is superobvscum.

[RayFrost]

That smoke in of itself makes me more inclined to believe hito-town. Andrius - do you have evidence that hito is town? You don't need to share it, but saying y/n lets me know something.

[RayFrost]

I'm thinking that, if they say you are conf-town, and that you are saying you believe they are town, that it is more likely to be true based upon the risk vs return of a gambit on the scale of using a scum for contact (which would be necessary for this to work with the contacted individual to post like you did - not completely sure but close enough to it). In addition the fact they are sharing other information to you aside from the posts you've shared shows to me that you are townish considering your lack of any real change in playstyle or behavior that is worth mentioning outside of the fact you've been townish all game.

I have some other issues, but they are best left unshared in the public eye and are borderline dangerous speculation.

Have to ask, though: hito, what in the hell made you choose

equinox

to docify? He was a supremely obvtown player. He was too town to live. That was my actual read of him.

[RayFrost]

Hrrrm. With you as the communication relay for us talking with the seraph, that practically ensures you are the NK of either the SK or the scumteam or both. This makes me wish they had chosen someone less town but still sorta town to use communion on. Like mothrax. Hell, even furcolow. Furc may be a VI, but I doubt he'd screw something like this up. That makes another question, but not one that it'd be a good idea to answer.

[RayFrost]

Eh, furc's town. All he'd have to do is relay. Hardly a strenuous deal.

Feh, I'll trust you, then. I do have issues with this, but I'll drop it. Moving right along... why does this feel like break time? GET TO WORK REALIZING THAT MY READS ARE RIGHT, PEONS!

Recognize my accuracy in finding the scum and pay homage

.

[RayFrost]

The issues I have are speculation better left unsaid. I don't have the information necessary to decide if these are really issues, and the information you'd n eed to share is something that shouldn't be public. As I said, let's drop it. I'll put my trust in you and hito to keep this under control.

[RayFrost]

Anyway I'm going to be off for about five-seven hours.

Much <3, light, loving snowfall, and chocolate covered strawberries to you all.

[RayFrost]

VV just said "I agree with everything hito said but me, vote: personmostlikelytodie"

FLAILING SCUM! Gg all.

[RayFrost]

Oh, and he asked the same questions I did. Restating my questions because andy felt it made me townish? That's your

best attempt

at acting towny? This is just ridiculously easy.

[RayFrost]

VV: what's your opinion of nacho?

[RayFrost]

But they are still correct in thinking that bs is scum.

[RayFrost]

Nor do you even need to make cases, apparently.

[RayFrost]

My statement was aimed toward furc, not you.

[RayFrost]

Mudslinging over the QL baed off of flimsy and weak as hell reasoning. Also note the light suspicion of andy that's immediately cast aside - why mention it if you think it' completely null?

Empty attempt at jutifying a mothrax vote - "oh, you know... he's subtly going for the quick lynch that many people agree about by voting"

This says "mothrax is voting in a way as to be able to claim he wasn't pushing for the quick lynch"

So that covers terrible cases, I think.

I only suspect mothrax for crap reasons! I don't think anyboy else in this game is scummy, but o wait... I kinda guess ss kinda is.

This is avoiding any of the current suspects completely and avoiding slipping up - a very common scum mistake is to try and narrow down what they talk about to virtually nothing to avoid making errors.

BS has previously said the empking kill was probably done by a seraph when zeus bolts (as vi called them in moho) were one time only deals that happened instantly, not some end of the day thing. BS sinced changed her mind without providing any reasoning as to why or even dicussing it.

Baseless assumption that looks more like a scum misdirection-"slip" than a town stupidity to me. BS said it with no backup (the fact that fate flipped combined demon doen't change this as we don't know the exact timing of the happening) but with a declarative statement. There wa no question in BS' mind that any other possibility was as likely, which hints at inside information.

BS' let's agree to disagree, then! type post reads like a deperate attempt to end the topic before it gets out of hand and more mistakes are made. The change in B' playstyle reads like scum coaghing overall to me as well.

[RayFrost]

i'll bet you do
what makes you believe he is town?
his one liners?
his unreadability?
your scum roster?

Is this the "case" you put against Jack?

If so, it's even worse than your pitiful attempt at calling me scum where you essentially went "herpderp, you disagree with me, scum!1!one!!!1!"

[RayFrost]

An iso read shows

absolutely no other posts

that could be considered to even remotely be making a case on jack or ss.

[RayFrost]

I've wanted a dead Baby Spice ever since my ISO #23.

That would be your first post after I laid out a case for you being scum. There's an acronym for that.

Rayfrost, you seem to think I'm scummy for being honest in what I think and stuff. Scum lie, town don't, and I'm town.

Scum can be completely honest about everything but their alignment. They'd still be scum. Bad play and bad logic is not necessarily sincere, and scummy play is scummy play. Sincerity tells in scummy play means sincerely scummy not sincere town.

[RayFrost]

That post was unfinished, but I had stuff to do. I shall finish where I left off.

Sincerity tells in scummy play means sincerely scummy not sincere town. Bad play isn't an alignment tell, which is what you'd be arguing for here, BS. The fact you are sincerely not-awesome doesn't make you town. It just means your scum play is poor.

[RayFrost]

Furcolow not replying to my reply to him regarding his "cases" is noted. In a notebook. With notes. Notify me about this note so I might type the note's meaning in a note to you all.

[RayFrost]

I feel inclined to point out that the SK might've cross-killed with the scum. In fact, I find that to be incredibly likely considering that andrius was superomfgtown with supah value shiznit via TS. The mod giving only one kill flavor makes sense to me here, since being incinerated kinda overcomes attempting the impossible, imo.

[RayFrost]

Also, Andrius targeted me with his neighborizing ability, but he died, so all I got was a lame message from the mod saying I would've been part of a neighborhood with him.

[RayFrost]

I believe that AGM is not the scummiest player at this time. Can somebody present a case that isn't reliant upon the lack of a kill? Pl0xkthxbai

[RayFrost]

Then, please, wax philosophical.

[RayFrost]

If this is it, I'm not convinced. Nor am I impressed.

[RayFrost]

Length isn't really the issue. Your argument is a loose drapery over your vote that doesn't quite make it look good. Aside from that, I think I'm being too cemented in my reads here. Of the scum reads given by the seraphs, the only one I find myself feeling in particular agreement about is ss, and the fact my reads aren't changing is not good for my accuracy. I'm going to do an iso read of the living players to reassess considering my BS-wrongness.

[RayFrost]

I'll let you all know the result of my reassessment after it's complete.

[RayFrost]

AGM iso: I didn't feel that the vezok QL was town/scum for those on it, so d1 postings are null to me.

AGM said he thought one of inhim/magua was scum but I don't recall him ever calling for an inhim lynch, especially after magua flipped town.

AGM, in the same post, calls andrius scummy but doesn't really do anything towards that. He calls inhim, emp, and magua all scum but does nothing to actually follow up his reads. Lack of proactivity = scummy.

Suddenly, in his very next content post, inhim becomes questinable instead of scum. His only mention of inhim is just before his list of reads. There's no evidence for an inhim change, and furc was/is obvfailtown. The consistency on AGM thinking ss is scummy is towny to me (consistently pushing someone that isn't lynched over and over is the height of town thinking they've caught scum and not letting go)

Overall: Null leaning scum

Skipping furc, since he's obvfailtown. =/ Too obv to bother reading.

inhim iso: Initial postings look good. Just-after-initial-postings look null until this post. He doesn't explain fook all of what he's saying, making it a contentless wash of nothing. This post more than makes up for that. Inhim posts toward fate are lovely. Inhim's latest lack of activity's making me a sadpanda. WE NEED MOAR GOOD TOWN. GET THE FOOK IN HERE YOU BASTARD.

Overall: Almost as town as my lack of chest hair.

Jack iso: Initial stuff is extremely proactive. WANT. Lately, he's been lazy. DO NOT WANT.

Overall: Null leaning town

Mothrax iso: Fuck yeah, towniness. "I have no experience with this guy but he surely knows my easy-mislynch rep and so is pushing a me-scum mentality. SCUM!" - ++scumpoints. Town. Worth noting, not sure on read-worth. Town. BS / RF reads unsurpported and jumps away frm katsuki soon after. Slightly scummy.

Gotta go for now. Will finish when I get back in ~9 hours.

[RayFrost]

Soooo. Do you think the seraphs are scum, SS? Your last post kinda indicates that you do. If so, reasoning pl0x. I stated it was a possibility, but I put faith in andrius here. Even after his death. (actually,

especially considering

his death)

[RayFrost]

Also, sorry about not finishing my isos. I actually got rather busy with family stuff when I got back from my outing. I promise to do the completion tomorrow. Promise. Let there be much eggnog, tears of mahogany, and flesh of hercules in your lives.

[RayFrost]

RF has returned to complete the ritual of isolation. Be prepared.

[RayFrost]

Suddenly, in his very next content post, inhim becomes questinable instead of scum.

It was a catchup post, so my "next post" was really 15 game-pages later.

First, though, a reply to this.

AGM. You only replied to part of my issue. You

failed to make virtually any mention of inhim

. The fact it is

Fifteen MF'ing pages

just emphasizes my main issue.

[RayFrost]

Though the reasoning isn't necessarily the best, I see no reason to bus an obvtown partner (let' face it. Fate was playing town - props to him, etc). Reads as town sincerity. Very very very ++++ town points. Following intereaction(s) with fate read town.
Town
Overall: Mothrax is the most town player in this game aside from me and furc (out of everybody I've iso'd so far). That puts him a #2 most awesome alive player. #1's me, clearly.

Nachomamma8:

First 5 posts of iso have only one remote towntell for me: fate going "nachoscumzor!!!" The rest is null.

Nacho calling BS town but not really arguing for it and providing only this as evidence for BS town reads slightly scummy, but not major.

Town proactivity

Brilliantly town post

Following posts of nacho on ss read town.

Overall: Nacho is the fifth most town player in this game after inhim. WHY WERE YOU NOT HERE ALL THE TIME DAMMIT? YOU COULD'VE BEEN MY GREATEST LOVE </3

[RayFrost]

SS iso alone is so long that it gets it's own post.

SS:

I draw a blank through the first 6 posts. I really glaze over the BS interactions when I read them. Dunno what that says about her alignment though.

This post says a lot of stuff without saying much of anything, imo. Sure, she gives gneeric reads, but she doesn't provide anything remotely in the realm of reasoning for the majority of them (gud, furc, rf, vv). The stuff regarding BS reads like coasting more than genine feelings to me. Moderate scumminess

Last bit of this post reads like overcautious scum trying to avoid slipping. I think empking had a similar issue. Minor scumminess.

Next post makes it make sense, though. Feels geniune, change the effect to null.

This reads like feigned raegdisbelief to try and get minor brownie points.

I shall describe what I got out of this post. "Furc is town. Vote: Furc" Excuse me as I proceed to

Not really vote but pace a major suspicion tab on: SS

Already covered my issue with this post

Another "Furc is town" post... but with a vote on furc.

I'm voting for someone I think is town because we need informatin from watching him flip. I think he'll flip town, meaning we get no information, but let's do it anyway. Yeah... If VV is scum, SS is definitely so. Vice Versa. (I say this from the "I'd be willing to lynch VV, but I'm still voting furc" in that post)

Reads like sincere rage. Not sure if the rage sincerity means anything.

Vote BS for no real reasoning at all. Woohoo wagoning. +++scumpoints.

Again with the 'vv is suspect, but I really kinda want to go with this other person' business. HUEGLY SUSPECT.

Tells mothrax he is wrong but doesn't present any form of case on me or even follows through with apparant suspicion. Is this

purely

nitpicking at mothrax?

This post has

even more

connections to VV. My dear lord. If ss flips scum she should get a title for being such an obvious distancer. I swear.

First part of post reads like pointless false frustrations.

Overall: If VV is not the uber ultra obv scum of the year, SS is going to get my vote. Just saying.

[RayFrost]

VV:

VV's lack of ever following up his comment regarding me bothers the living shit out of me.

Fate post quoted here reads like fatedistancing more than fate hitting town on something.

I APPROVE A LYNCH ON MY BUDDY but et's stay on this not-going-to-happen lynch. Katvote not bad. Lack of Kito vote is.

Town points

Reads like a forced attempt to cover the fact VV is NOTVOTINGKITOARISCUM.

VV's hate on magua just reads like scum that dove in head first too quickly to climb back out.

Something that emphasizes VV's ties to SS: THE ONLY TIME VV MENTIONS SS IS IN HIS SECOND TO LAST/LAST POSTS. HE GIVES NO REASONING. THERE IS A VERY CONSPICUOUS BLANK SPACE IN VV'S POSTS REGARDING SS.

Overall: VV + SS are scum together. Calling it. If not, at least one of them is scum. THEY MUST DIE. Preferably in a fire.

[RayFrost]

AGM is at most mild scum.

SS and VV are superobvscum with special emphasis on the scum part for SS. At least one of these two is scum. For sure. 100%. Definitely.

[RayFrost]

Not voting SS at this time due to

omfgL-1

if I do. I want to get some posties in this shiznizzle from the lot of you. Perhaps the seraphs can give us a sign.

[RayFrost]

RF, vote on Furc was to get answers, not because I thought he was scummy.

There's probably more to respond to, but that'll have to wait.

I know. That's my issue. You voted

someone you thought was town

for information rather than

attempting to convince people to vote who you thought was scum

.

[RayFrost]

K. So you've effectively said BOTH OF YOU HAVE TO BE SCUM TOGETHER WELL AT LEAST ONE OF YOU.

Check it. You're reading ISOs with confirmation bias according to what the Seraph's have said. There's no way anyone else can be scum now.

I find it highly likely that you are both scum. If neither of you are scum, I shall change my avatar to this or this of your choosing for a week.

I actually read the isos without considering what the seraphs said. They hardly said anything worth noting in the way of presenting cases. The fact they said "We think these people are scum" doesn't make them right. The fact said people have a series of scummy actions that make me suspicious of the aforementioned individuals does.

[RayFrost]

RF FoS on VV has me EVEN MORE SUSPICIOUS OF RF THAN I ALREADY WAS

PRO-TOWN DOES NOT EQUAL INNOCENT.

?

It's not a FoS. It's me outright saying that VV is scum. No qualifiers. I said the same about singer.

[RayFrost]

OH YEAH. OH YEAH.

<3 hito

Nacho has the right of it.

SS: Sheeping? Not particularly scummy compared to what I've found via iso'ing you. It's scummy but not major league.

[RayFrost]

@singersigner:

Please explain this stance ("Furcolow is town") combined with your vote on Furcolow. Again, keep in mind I'm slow.

I’m ready to see a flip to get answers once and for all VOTE: Fucolow.

It's not so much that I think he's scum (like someone said stupid=/=scum), it's that he has odd connections that need to be weeded out. The only way to do that is see his flip, especially since this whole godfather, no godfather business. He's been contributing to town in a detrimental way.

I'd also be fine with a VV lynch

, since

he seems to have awkward contradicting stances

that's

not presenting himself in the best of light

.

Fixed. ~Vi

[RayFrost]

bah, that should have ss overall quote and magua as the first.

Mod: Please fix?

Um... could you PM me with how it should read? I'm confused. ~Vi

[RayFrost]

Right now I'm suspicious of BS...maybe VV, but even less so now that BS is voting him to "test them" where I'm assuming "them" is referring to hers and Andrius' scumspect's being the same or something of the sort.

[RayFrost]

Last post by me for now.

<3 hito. Much seraphimianous to you.

[RayFrost]

RF why don't we vote VV then?
you are just FoS, put your money where your mouth is Mr. Avatar bet.

I'm fine with that. Are you?

Vote: VV

[RayFrost]

RF, you're then assuming that the Seraph's reads are right, when they've already been proven wrong once, and if you lynch me today, will be again. I didn't want to say this before inHim answered, but he seems to be ignoring my question, me, the thread, something, so I have little hope of getting it out of him. Part of the reason I think Jack is town is because there was no scum motivation for him to blatantly disagree with the BS wagon when the Seraph's had a scum read on her, the majority of people were agreeing with it, and RayFrost actually had a convincing case lain out on her.

RF, you've been the only one to actually present a case I can respond to, but it seems as though you're the only not content with letting the town lose. Response will be in my next post.

Preview Edit:
You seem to be forgetting that lynching someone =/= thinking they're scum. I'll admit that I thought VV was scummy at one point, but I fail to see how that's indicative of him being scum either. I thought the same thing of Furc. I'd also rather see a VV lynch to get the information from which people clearly see as scummy than me. So what?

How many mislynches do you think we have left? How many can we afford? I think town would be making a huge mistake by lynching either one of us right now because the minute one of us flips town you're going to assume the other must be scum.

AGM...you're scum. STFU.

Actually, I'm saying

I'm right

. The seraphs just happen to not be stupid.

I shall look forward to that reply.

It's more the mentions of VV without really pushing at him. Minor mentions that don't really say anything as you took a "superior" option. If/when one of you flips scum, I expect an insta-lynch on the other. Your comment regarding VV wasn't the same as about furc, which leads to you saying they were the same to be odd to me. Null reply. Get your response up A S A P.

Going to agree with VV here - probably 6/2/1. I don't see it likely that there's more than three scum left, since there's SK + the scumteam(s). To be safe, I'd assume there's one more scum even if it doesn't seem feasible. Even if it's unlikely, it's possible, so better safe than sorry. We

have

to lynch correctly.

[RayFrost]

VV: pure wagon analysis is terrible. (As in wagon analysis alone for finding scum is worth absolutely zilch)

Provide some real backing to your post. A case, for example, would be helpful.

[RayFrost]

Anyway, going to do some stuff. See yah.

[RayFrost]

How about replying to my case points on you, VV?

[RayFrost]

It's pretty bad. You assume too much.
When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME.(I've always wanted to say this 8D.)
Very few of those points are on stuff that really matter. (ie. Stances, Votes and Lynches.)

And how is it that I am automatically buddies with SS for the last vote? I thought SS was scummy and I needed my vote somewhere, but then I actually did some digging and found that she just might be a naturally scummy player instead of actual scum. I think her lack of posturing into Town Lynches is indicative of Town.

FWIW, I think mothrax is the most objectively scummy player around. I think his spot in the counterwag on Guderian says something. Need I remind that he's the ONLY player alive in the 2ND LEADING WAGON when we lynched Kitoari at D2?

>"You assume too much"
>Not pointing out assumptions and why they are invalid

>Saying his vote is the only reason I think he's buddies with SS
>Ignoring other points regarding this

>Mothrax is scummy for not voting for kitoari
>Rayfrost was not voting for kitoari D2, but RF is not scummy at all for this?

I'm finding your incomplete points in the wagon analysis to be bad. Your analysis is biased towards finding mothrax scum rather than looking at everything.

Examples: RayFrost has not been on any wagons on scum. Mothrax was pushing for a fate lynch when fate was an obvtown read for most people, meaning distancing/bussing is not feasible at all. The kitoari lynch went through in a single day from gud being the highest lynch to kitoari dying. Mothrax did not post during the large swing.

[RayFrost]

Inhim. If you had to vote right now, who would you vote?

[RayFrost]

Also, something that's been practically screaming for me to say that I've been brewing over whether it's a good idea to say (I finally said screw it and decided to post this) is this:

Andrius flipped neighborizer.

Hito said only one order can be used per person.

Who the hell's the super townie that got communioned?

From the logic of this to allow andrius to communicate, it's who he neighborized that got communioned, sooo... anybody want to claim this and practically 100% confirm themselves as town? Anybody?

I've come to the decision to finally ask about this because I feel that having this information may completely alter my reads, and I'd rather have this information early in the day.

[RayFrost]

With that, I gotta sleep.

My reason for not asking initially: the possibility that scum will kill the person, but I feel the info is more useful. Being out to openly communicate the word of our deities is more useful for town at this point, I suppose. I was uncertain earlier but I'm tired and dgaf anymore.

[RayFrost]

HITO I EXPECT AN APOLOGY FOR YOU DERAILING

MY

BEAUTIFUL SS WAGON

Excuse

me? YOU DID NONE OF THE WORK. CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE MOFO.

[RayFrost]

NOT IF I HAVE CONTROL OVER IT.

I

AM

GOING TO WIN THIS.

[RayFrost]

SHUT UP SINGERSCUM

SORRY RAY, BUT I PEGGED HER FIRST. AND YOU WEREN'T EVEN VOTING HER ANYWAY, SO.
<3 YOU THOUGH

PEGGING DOES NOT MAKE IT YOUR WAGON DAMMIT! I MADE THE BRILLIANT CASE, YOU HAVE JUST BEEN MENTIONING HER.

MAKE A CASE SO WE HAVE FURTHER EVIDENCE TO CONVINCE THESE FOOLS OF SSSCUM!

[RayFrost]

ACTUALLY WAIT A MINUTE.

WHY ARE YOU RUSHING A SS LYNCH?

[RayFrost]

SS is scum but dammit AGM flipped town. I can't trust this shiznit. I NEED TIME TO THINK

[RayFrost]

WHERE IS THAT CASE YOU PROMISED NACHO?

[RayFrost]

SLOW THE VOTING DOWN. REASSESSMENT IS NECESSARY AND NACHO NEEDS TO GIVE A CASE. WE WERE WRONG ON AGM. WHY RUSH WITH SO MANY INCORRECT READS?

[RayFrost]

I SHALL BE DEPARTING FOR THE MEATWORLD. I ANTICIPATE MUCH POSTING IN MY ABSENCE, PEONS.

[RayFrost]

If we are wrong on ss-scum, then sk + scum = 3 votes = instalynch = town's fooked without cross kills.

[RayFrost]

Furc, what the fook are you talking about? *goes back to read moho*

[RayFrost]

It only has vig. What the heck is a pnemetic vig?

[RayFrost]

Anyway, gotta do some stuff. Will reply to the rest of this later.

[RayFrost]

A question for furc: Who is scum? Why? Who is town? Why? I want a case-esque reply to the second question in each pair.

[RayFrost]

Something that need to be said:

IT IS DOUBLE FREAKING DAY.

THERE WAS NO TRANSITION.

THAT MEANS THERE COULD BE NO KILL.

VV: How in the hell would you know my ability to play as scum? Not to mention the fact the scum play in my wiki is

crap

. I have

three out of ten

scum games where I wasn't lynched, one of which I died N0. That's not even counting the play in the games where I ended up replacing out. Your idea that I could play superobvtown awesome like I am this game as scum is baseless. You idea of lynching from the obvtown rather than the obvscum seems too sincere to be scum. I'll give your idea that mothrax could be scum a chance and read through his iso looking for what you've mentioned.

[RayFrost]

If I'm going to turn all reads on their head, here is what I'd do:

1. Lynch Nacho.

2. Lynch Furc.

3. Lynch jack/mothrax/vv.

4. Lynch mothrax/vv/jack.

5. Lynch vv/jack/mothrax.

6. Have the game be over in a town win.

[RayFrost]

P.S.: what do you mean by "posturing" vv?

[RayFrost]

My understanding of your JAck case is... "he is someone it'd make sense for there not too have been a kill from" - kinda bad logic (by the way, I just realize dyou were talking about the "missed" kill from the early day). It's easily possible that the SK killed the same person as the scum, so it's foolish to assume that they missed the kill.

[RayFrost]

Also, something that's bugging me: VV says "mothscum!" and hito goes "but this interaction with fate makes me think otherwise" and ss goes "it's possible that they weren't merged at that time"

=x Aside from that, I can see some of what you're saying, but I feel that his fate vote/misunderstanding is still sincere town scumhunting (however poorly). He's not a solid read, but fook it. Switch furc and mothrax in my above list.

Still, if I'm going to go with my heart, I'm going to lynch nacho. MY HEART SPEAKS TRUE. THAT IS WHAT MY AVATAR REPRESENTS: THE SHEER POWER OF MY HEART'S UNDERSTANDING OF ALL BURSTS MY FROSTY FLESH IN A RAY OF AWESOMENESS.

Vote: NACHO

[RayFrost]

I tried parsing furc's post, but I didn't quite understand it.

Pnemonic vig means a phrase set by the player dayvigs - got that.

Furc apparently knows the ts attempted to give this ability to him - got that

I don't understand the rest of it.

[RayFrost]

Apparently ray, you like to ask generic premade questions regardless of a/igment.

Kito - present a case on your highest two scum reads and inform us as to your highest town read with reasoning.

I'll do this sometime today. I'm running out to the doctor soon so no real time to assemble anything.

words

uuuuugggghhhhhhh

I might drum up a response later but about 90% of it relies on fate being a psychic with the ability to see my hypothetical scum QT.

1. What premade question?

2. How the hell does this quote relate to anything?

[RayFrost]

Inhim, you are faking hito. He would know he sent that to me.

Sooo...

You KNOW FOR A FACT that the town seraph sent you a power that scum just happened to

immediately take away from you

.

Sense exists... where?

[RayFrost]

URGHGHGHGHAGDFASGKashDG

Going to slap myself. I WAS BEING FOOLED. RAEG IGNITED.

[RayFrost]

VOTE: SINGERSIGNER

YOUR JEDI MIND TRICKERY WILL NOT FOOL ME, VV! I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE, AND IT SHALL NOT WORK.

[RayFrost]

<3 to furc for confusing the hell out of me. Allowed me to reset my mind.

[RayFrost]

Starting up minecraft = 4 minutes of notlooking = disappearing?

SS IS SCUM YOU TRIED TO FOOL ME INTO THINKING YOUR WAY (whether you are town or scum for doing that remains to be seen...) BY TELLING ME TO BELIEVE IN MY HEART AND ALL THAT MUMBOJUMBO. YOU KNOW THE LINGO. "TOO MUCH READING SYNDROME" WHAT ABSOLUTE JEDI MIND TRICKERY THIS IS.

[RayFrost]

I refuse to unvote, but I'll consider a break in posting. It

is

almost 1 AM, and my quality of sleep last night was the closest thing you can get to insomnia without actually being awake.

[RayFrost]

OHFFS.

DOWN TO THE WIRE PEOPLE.

IF WE DO NOT LYNCH RIGHT TODAY, IT IS ALMOST CERTAIN TO BE GAME OVER.

[RayFrost]

Vote count was reset post-kill.

[RayFrost]

Gotta do something but will post shiznit posthaste.

[RayFrost]

I'm a pseudo double voter in that mothrax, feeling uncertain about his own ability to be useful (or trying to avoid being useful in the first damn place =x), has put his vote in my hands. It's not a true double vote as his vote isn't stolen from him and granted to me, but we can consider him to be voting whoever I am.

tl;dr: mothrax acknowledges my superiority and obv townness and so he will vote with me for my reads are ordained by the gods (not the angels, but the gods!)

[RayFrost]

Isn't that what everyone's been doing with the Seraph's reads?

...

..............

....................................

Say wut? You talkin' to me?

[RayFrost]

Nacho voiced original opinion regarding babyspice at minimum pre-seraphs. I fail to see the accuracy of your argument.

[RayFrost]

VV, inhim, nacho, myself, you, mothrax... that leaves just about... jack? That's it, right?

[RayFrost]

what?

I was listing people that I remember giving opinions before the seraphs came unto us.

[RayFrost]

Jack, what makes you believe that the SK will just go "Oh yeah... um... I am the SK, please don't kill me" when they are run up? There is no reason to be SK hunting, afaict ("as far as I can tell" for those that can't feel me).

[RayFrost]

P.S.: where is everybody?

[RayFrost]

P.P.S.: ss is scum. When will the seraphimiams let us lyncheth thee scum?

[RayFrost]

If I had to choose between your mentioned three, I'd choose mothrax first and then nacho/jack in a toss up.

[RayFrost]

Urgh, reality has been a beetch to me

VV: NACHO HATH MANY SIGNS OF SCUMMINESS. SS AND MOTHRAX HATH THE TELLS OF SCUM, JACK HATH THE STENCH OF SK AS WELL.

[RayFrost]

Hey seraphims. Lynchy tiem nao?

[RayFrost]

I mean, seriously. It's dying. SALVATION BE GIVETH THROUGH THE REJECTION OF EVIL FROM THY HEART.

FOLLOW YOUR GLORIOUS PALADIN UNTO THE DESTRUCTION OF CRUEL MENACES. WE MUST PURGE OURSELVES OF THE EVIL THAT EXISTS WITHIN SINGERSIGNER, MOTHRAX, JACK, AND NACHOMAMMA8.

[RayFrost]

Is there value to quoting that, or are you just trying to remind everybody as to why you're scum?

[RayFrost]

OHSNAP.

VV IS CONFTOWN.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

EVERYTHING

.

My lord, I'm going to have to reread this game AGAIN. With all the reading I'm doing for this, I'll have read more than OoT mafia.