League of Legends (Old)

[BROseidon]

Power is entirely numbers-dependent. You can balance any kit by making the numbers big/small enough.

His kit does look pretty cool, although I'm not a fan of the snowbally effect that resets have. His kit is certainly much better than Aatrox's "watch me do everything" kit.

[BROseidon]

@the post above, that's absolutely and ridiculously wrong. Exhibit A: Rengar Exhibit B: Hecarim, Exhibit C: Janna

...all are fine right now?

Numbers don't just have to be damage. Shit like ability range and cc duration are also numbers.

[BROseidon]

Rengar is weak because Riot is fixing his play pattern, but he's not horrible. Certainly not heimer-level bad.

Hec is not "second best jungler in the game." He's solid, but there are plenty of junglers who are about as good, if not better, depending on team composition.

Public data on winrates is bad. Janna is solid, but not substantially stronger than Sona/Nami/Lulu/Thresh.

What the pros do is, if anything, generally more indicative of what is OP (pros will congregate around currently or recently OP champs). Janna was picked once in NA last week and banned 0 times. Hec was pick/banned 0 times in NA last week.

[BROseidon]

Rengar is not impossible to balance, it's that his kit is un-fun to interact with when it's good. There's a difference there.

You forgot Elise and Lee Sin in your jungler list, both of whom are stronger than Hec right now.

Janna is not better than any of those. Easier to play, sure, but she's not actually better. Which is why the pros aren't picking her all the time.

And yes, different balance exists at different levels of play, but talking about balance other than every play playing near-optimally is pointless because the game is balanced around competitive play. Riot only deviates from this if a champ causes serious problems at another elo bracket (old Xin, Yi, Trynd, etc).

[BROseidon]

I think its a little absurd to say that any champion can't be balanced simply by tweaking the numbers because I can't see how there could be a sharp cutoff point where above a certain number that champion is op and below it the champion is up - using rengar for example, if he were balanced with, say, his q doing 50 damage at level 1, changing it to do 51 damage at level 1 wouldn't then make him overpowered - but clearly, if it did no damage he would be too weak and if it did 700 damage he would be too strong, so somewhere in between has to be a sweet spot in terms of how likely you are to win if you pick him.

Of course there are some caveats, like there could be kits where the sweet spot is harder to hit, or kits where hitting that sweet spot leaves you with unfun gameplay patterns (for example, feast or famine type gameplay of the sort that katarina used and still to some degree does have), or kits where tuning it to be balanced as a one off is technically possible but the champion is so sensitive to changes in their environment that every time you change something about one of their core items, or the way passive gold generation works, or the talent trees get tweaked, then it has an impact on their gameplay that you have to address again.

Or it might even be that the correct numbers at a professional level and at a high elo level are vastly different to the correct numbers for scrubby people like us and that makes the champion really hard to balance correctly

.

The bold is a much more concise and clear version of my premise, saying that what pros do doesn't matter.

And I agree, that it isn't a hard cut off, but it's not that the number is the part that is unbalanced, it's the mechanic itself. Let's stay on Rengar for a second, His ferocity and the fact that when he hits max ferocity he can double trigger a move is the part that makes it hard/impossible to balance. It gave him way too much with CDR( the steroid, the ult, the heal) and the numbers just helped his laning be too dominant. They had to tune down everything because the ferocity mechanic was too strong and with split pushing with the double Q steroid and laning with the super strong heal(which is why the changed the heal to scale on level). Also let's go to the most recent and obvious example of a mechanic they atually couldn't balance so they just took it out, Draven's bleed. Riot pretty much admited that his old passive couldn't be both balanced and useful so they removed it even though it was a huge part of his lore(The Bleed Brother with Darisu.) Let's go to my point on Janna. It actually doesnt matter what her numbers are, the kit is just too good at doing what it's supposed to do. She already doesn't really provide that much lane prescence because they already tuned her down so much but still the only thing that really kept her down was how OP Taric was and Leona just be too damn good at being aggressive. She's just too good at protecting the AD carry. You can make her nado do no damage, it still does a great job saving a a bad player. Same with the ult and the slow. No one even really channels the ult outside of weird lane skirmmishs early game. Same goes with thresh. It's not the numbers it's the kit.

If the kit is too good at fulfilling what the role is intended to do, then it's not a numbers issue. Lantern being able to be a repeatable get out of jail free card, Janna in general being able to be a repeatable get out of jail free card. Those are things that have nothing to do with numbers. Rengar being able to take out towers too quickly and get away, wasn't a numbers thing, because they adjusted the numbers ever so slightly and now it doesn't work at all.

Also another thing that prevents numbers tweaks from being the end all be all of balancing is when a champs numbers are fine but he is too good at doing something they didn't intend for him to do(Ap Rengar, Jungle alistar). Rengar was a combination of DFG being far too strong and the scaling being way too high, so they completely decimated both things which is another thing that gave way to why he is so weak now. Alistars numbers a support were fine and he was a good support but not OP by any means but because he was way too strong in the jungle, they tuned him down so he wouldn't be and now he's not good enough to be a support AND he can't clear the new jungle so he's virtually worthless.

There are so many things that go into balancing a champion beside numbers and saying that a straight numbers tweak will fix every champ is just straight up bullshit. If it was that easy, the game would be perfectly balanced and every champ would be able to be put on equal footing with every other champ.

I do agree that the bolded is relevant, but it brings up the question of "how do I deal with things that are OP in lower levels but weaker in higher levels if I am trying to improve." Old Xin is a good example of this. Sure, you could pick him to crush your way up from bronze, but once you hit gold you would probably have a lot of trouble winning with him because your ability to secure early ganks would be greatly diminished by players knowing how to ward and how to play passively. Part of playing the game is learning how to deal with things that are stronger at weaker levels but weaker at higher levels, since usually those champs abuse the fact that lower level players are weak at some aspect of the game (old Xin punished warding/overextending, Darius punished bad positioning, etc). Playing against these champs consistently would also give you a way to improve specific skills better (my positioning got a lot better after going top against Darius a lot with champs like Teemo).

However, the way you are approaching "numbers" is too narrow. Numbers are more than just damage and stats, they are also cooldowns, CC durations, ranges, aoe sizes, etc. For Rengar, one way they could have balanced the ferocity mechanic would have been to make it require more casts to charge up. Instead of getting a free reset every 5 spells, you're now getting it every 7 or 10. That would work towards balancing him. There are a bunch of places where Janna could still be nerfed if Riot wanted that would weaken her without hitting her core gameplay patterns. Her passive is one of the strongest in the game, but it's underappreciated by Janna players because they always have it and don't notice it. Part of the reason why Janna is strong is that her passive completely transforms mid, top, and jungle matchups. They could also reduce the bonus AD her shield gives, which would hurt her ability to produce further multiplicative scaling on ADCs. They could reduce the duration and/or strength of her slow, or the range of her tornado.

Also, your point about unintended gameplay patterns is a bit off. Usually there is a way to fix the problem that doesn't involve hitting the champ in their intended area. With Rengar, they only really needed to hit his AP ratios and DFG. The AD assassin build should be unaffected by that. With Alistar, the problem was a systemic issue in the jungle that made clearing camps too easy; the season 3 changes fixed that, and now Riot is free to buff Alistar support because you won't see him in the jungle anymore (also, Alistar is not that bad. He has the highest and most mana efficient sustain in the game).

The reason why the game hasn't reached perfect balance is that "numbers" can mean a lot of things. All of the numbers on Janna's kit, as an example, are:

Base stats (health, health/lvl, health regen, health regen/lvl, AD, AD/lvl, AS, AS/lvl, etc)
%MS buff on her passive
CD of tornado
Damage of tornado
Damage scaling of tornado
Charge time of tornado
Base knockup of tornado
Knockup scaling of tornado
Base range of tornado
Range scaling of tornado
Width of tornado
Projectile speed of tornado
CD of W
Damage of W
Damage scaling of W
Projectile speed of W
Slow strength of W
Slow duration of W
MS bonus while W on CD
Range of W
CD of shield
Strength of shield
Scaling of shield
AD bonus of shield
Range of W
CD of ult
knockback of ult
Channel duration of ult
Healing/second of ult
Mana costs on all her abilities.

I think I got everything there, but that is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooot of numbers they can play with without changing Janna's core gameplay.

[BROseidon]

Support Heimer is actually a thing. There is one high-level player who mains it.

I've tried it. It's a lot better than you'd think, but still not very good >.>

[BROseidon]

Blind is insane and missiles are great for zoning.

And you get free wards.

[BROseidon]

Pretty sure Nami's Q is bugged to last too long right now. It lasts like 2 seconds (ish).

Edit: Yup, Riot has fixed it on PBE.

[BROseidon]

Yeah it's been lasting 2 seconds since release.

Also, Nami's Q is visually odd an interacts strangely with tenacity. The knockup/float part is actually a stun that can be reduced with tenacity, but the falling down part cannot be reduced.

[BROseidon]

Jungle Karma is new OP.

It's actually really good. If she gets first blue, everything after her first clear is fairly easy, and her ganks are really strong.

[BROseidon]

Highest Winrate jungler right now is Fiddle. Just saying.

It's probably support Fid with the high winrate. Lolking can't differentiate them >.>

[BROseidon]

I would argue that Ashe is best adc to learn on because:

1) Not having a jump means you learn how to position.

2) Her mechanics make you naturally want to learn to scoot-n-shoot

3) She has a simple kit that is relatively easy to understand at a basic level, while still having an exceptionally high skill-cap

4) Her AA animation is the most satisfying one in the game (imo)

[BROseidon]

I've actually been using that unspoken expectation to justify less early game wards as support : x since junglers typically expect bot to be the most warded lane.

This is really dangerous. I'm only high gold (been floating around Gold 1-3), and I consistently tell my jungler where wards are and when they will die. Then again, I'm also a support main and those don't usually exist in games, so there's that >.>

Also, re: ADC itemization, I would break it down as follows:

BotRK first: Vayne, Kog, Twitch (like the defensive tool, multiply really well with AS)
BT first: Ez, Graves, Sivir (lol Sivir), Draven
IE first (vamp->IE often): Ashe, Cait, Trist (maybe put her in BotRK it might be better on her)
BC first: URGOT WOOHOO.

Not really sure where you'd put AD Kennen, although I'd assume he'd go in either IE or BT. Also, Corki doesn't really like any AD items right now and is much stronger as an AP champ, which is jank as fuck and Riot really needs to fix that.

pedit: I know of some high level players who take lifesteal quints on champs with hard laning phases (vayne, kog, etc) to help the out there.

[BROseidon]

AD Kennen is a target-ban against a European pro in competitive play >.>

And MF goes BT first, quinn isn't a *real* adc (although I included Urgot so I should have probably included her as well). She falls into the "sort of an ADC but play pattern is so different that it's hard to call her that" category. I have no idea how to build her.

[BROseidon]

How does a fed Nasus do nothing?

>:C

[BROseidon]

Mundo goes where he pleases.

Although Elise could do it pre-nerf. Probably can't anymore.

[BROseidon]

Fucking love teemo. Excellent top laner.

Also, fun fact I learned from one of the Rioters at GaymerX: only people in mid-range elos (silver-gold/plat ish) complain about champion picks. The top and bottom elo players don't give a fuck what you pick.

[BROseidon]

idk how you die against a Singed 1v1 or how you die in lane as Vlad

Early laning phase vs a lot of champs is rough for Vlad.

Singed isn't on that list of "a lot of champs," though.

The general argument that Riot officially supports (Morello has posted this on the forums a bunch) is that outside of competitive play, picks matter marginally and skill differences are a much bigger factor in game outcomes. I've generally found this to be true.

pedit: yeah sometimes you lose games where you play well, but that's just part of playing a team game.

[BROseidon]

AD ANNIE TOO STRONG.

Don't know how jungle annie would work, though...

[BROseidon]

The Yi changes made the Yi problem worse. He's more OP at low levels than before, while still being bad at high levels.

[BROseidon]

Play a burst mage with a point and click stun and he's absolutely no issue.

I can suggest a really cute one :O

This is surprisingly difficult for a large number of players.

[BROseidon]

As for champion picks, I have a rule that I never give anybody crap for picking a "bad" champ, unless it's absolutely stupid (like support nidalee), and I try to only do that in ranked games.

Support Nid's in solo queue tend to actually be very good.

[BROseidon]

Which solo queue have *you* been playing?

Have you ever seen a support nid buy more than 1 ward ever?

If I'm not support I'm usually jungle.

So I just buy the wards instead.

[BROseidon]

^False.

I can easily think of half the champions in the game that make worse supports.

[BROseidon]

Like?

Going down the list of champs, pulling out those that make worse supports by a substantial margin (anything I think is remotely close I'm not including):

Aatrox
Ahri
Akali
Amumu
Anivia
Brand
Cait
Cass
Corki
Diana
Draven
Eve
Ez
Fiora
Fizz
Garen
Graves
Hec
Heimer
Irelia
Jax
Jayce
Karth
Kass
Kat
Kha
Kog
Malph
Malz
Yi
MF
Mord
Nasus
Noct
Olaf
Poppy
Quinn
Rammus
Renekton
Rengar
Riv
Ryze
Sej
Shaco
Shyv
Singed
Siv
Skarner
Swain
Talon
Trist
Trundle
Trynd
Twitch
Udyr
Urgot
Varus
Vayne
Veigar
Vi
Viktor
Vlad
Voli
WW
Wu
Xerath
Zac
Zed
Ziggs

That is more than half.

[BROseidon]

You literally just defined how good a support is solely by the CC they bring.

I think I'm going to cry.

A much better gauge is "how much lane presence does this champ have early, and what do they bring with minimal farm." Champions like Ahri, while they may have CC, need farm/levels to be effective, and gauging only by their CC is a moronic way of doing it. Nidalee's traps have high utility throughout the game, spear's early poke is strong, and the poke remains solid, and she has a heal with a steroid attached for the adc.

And I didn't include marginal things on the list like Annie and LB that might be better than nid but they are all so marginal at supporting that it doesn't really matter.

[BROseidon]

Yes, you just successfully outlined why support Nidalee is terrible. Thank you.

Nid has insane lane presence and can do okay with low farm.

Yeah, she can't peel, but she can provide AS+healing to an ADC that can peel for himself or has peeling elsewhere on the team (jungle, top). Spears do okay damage even without farm.

[BROseidon]

The new GP splash art is much more attractive than the old one.

But yeah, the men are not sexualized (save for Varus, really) and the women are. Riot also hasn't made any of the great sexy men skin ideas (unprepared Garen, beach day J4, sexy fireman Graves), which is sad

[BROseidon]

unprepared Garen, beach day J4, sexy fireman Graves

Dude these all sound awesome

what the hell Riot

They listened to the fans on Bunny Riven and Surprise Party Fiddle, maybe if we make a GD thread pushing hard enough for one of them they'll listen.

I vote Beach Day J4, since all his other skins suck.

Do we have any artists who can do concept art?

[BROseidon]

Can you Jarvan in a speedo with an umbrella for a spear with sandcastles for an ultimate?

[BROseidon]

Also, there is a Beach Skin being made for Leona. I think it's called "Sunbathing Leona"? Her Xenith Blade is an umbrella.

Where was this announced?

Also, comp or pencil is fine lol

[BROseidon]

Ah okay.

I would say we need a sexy Jayce skin but Debonair Jayce is already pretty sexy.

[BROseidon]

Draven would not be my first choice for male champs to make sexy skins for...

Darius, on the other hand... I could dig it.

[BROseidon]

WELCOME TO THE ORGY OF DRAVEN

[BROseidon]

There should be.

I'm BROtoro in LoL (NA)

[BROseidon]

stands for vicious.

[BROseidon]

Neon Strike Vi, because Vi is kickass.

Also, to contribute to the "when to start playing ranked" discussion, I started playing ranked right when I hit 30 (May 2011, I had started playing in early February), and I pretty much instantly was around 1300-1320 (which would be roughly Silver 3?). My the end of season 1 (August 2011) I had peaked at 1600 Elo and ended the season at like 1530. I think the decision to jump straight into ranked was a good one for me, but a few things about me that are important here:

1) I came from a strong DotA background, having played it for like 4 years and gotten fairly good.

2) I played a lot with a friend of mine who was 1350-1400 in normals while I leveled up, so I constantly played with "better" players from level 15+ (He also go gold season 1, and then moved to LA after graduating college and hit plat season 2. He's now in like Plat 3 or something).

3) I am a very competitive person. The fact that I can fuck around in normals because my normal MMR isn't very high is not very appealing. I like being challenged, and I like playing to win.

The pieces of advice I would give before going into ranked, though:

1) You need to be able to stay calm and build a team. I hit gold season 1 on the back of weak mechanics, mediocre game sense, and excellent leadership. Simply being able to keep your team calm and working together can go a really long way. The inverse of this is don't be toxic, ever. Someone pointed out how toxic behavior spreads earlier in the thread, and it was on par with what Fruistrike and Status Kwoh said at the Riot panel at GaymerX: toxic behavior starts with one person in a game, and spreads to other players. If you never originate it and are able to nip it in the bud when it's starting to spread, winning will happen much more often.

2) Be willing to compromise in champ select. Most people can't play every role equally, or their options for roles are limited. Communicate this effectively in champ select and try to work with people. Saying "mid pls" is not helpful when everyone and their mother plays mid. Give a spectrum of what you are good at; give your team mates options to work with so you can build a team. Similarly, if you are only able to play a certain champ (or few champs) in a given slot, communicate that. I only play Jayce and GP top (well). I am excellent at both of them, but if we need a top with hard CC, I'm playing something I'm not particularly comfortable with, or doing something janky like running Zyra top >.>

3) Never give up. Comebacks happen. Similarly, don't get cocky: My team last night started 6/1 in one game (from a lvl 1 fight), AND WE LOST BECAUSE OUR THRESH AND ASHE GOT COCKY AND FED THE GRAVES. Always play smart, even if you're way up.

4) Study the game. Watch the pros to understand what sort of decisions they make and why. A huge part of my ability to get gold in season 1 stemmed from me watching pro games a lot. You can't fully substitute watching in for playing, but you should still study the game academically to understand the strategy behind it.

[BROseidon]

My mechanics are on par with most Silver players. A lot of players are mechanically very good but cannot win because they suck in other areas, and they don't realize that team work and strategy trump mechanics a lot of the time. It's actually why I'm bad at Sona; she is one of the most punishing champs when it comes to mispositioning.

Also jungling sucks at all levels. Everyone feels entitled to constant ganks.

Unrelated, I feel bad for team Coast. I actually have a pretty positive opinion of Elementz.

Although I'm hoping CoL makes it back in for the next split, since they are the gayest pro team (and I mean that literally).

[BROseidon]

its a curve, not a "suddenly you must make decisions", the importance of decision-making increases as people you're playing with know how to make decisions/know what decisions it's intelligent to follow up on; the ability to solo carry a game decreases significantly as level goes up, and a lot of that comes off the fact that teams know more how to react appropriately

I've only ever once "solo carried" a game. It's always a team effort.

And yeah, CST isn't great, but I've been hoping that they'd turn things around.

[BROseidon]

Is nobody else watching LCS?

[BROseidon]

Yup, and Vulcun has just destroyed C9 :3

Missed it because I had to go home from work

Gonna watch later.

[BROseidon]

The thing is that Zed can just kill Karthus on cooldown which makes his whole "farm up" objective pretty difficult. The other thing is that generally against Zed you want to pick someone who can roam just as much as he can because Zed is going to be constantly doubleganking your mid or top lane and destroying them, and Karthus cannot help alleviate that by ganking as well because Karthus ganks suck.

A good Karth can play the matchup, but it's not fun. You have to make sure you ward the paths Zed can take to roam (so you can tell your side lanes when he's coming. This means 2 wards every b), and you have to let Zed push the lane and farm under turret. Karth can farm decently well under turret; lay waste is easy to CS with and Karth does okay with mana. When his clone is down, you can push the lane back against him a bit.

Also, when he goes to roam, you push mid like a mofo and ult if they get too aggressive in another lane.

pedit: Karth ganks are fine. You don't have to move to do them

[BROseidon]

It is meant to be a shoutout to Robot Unicorn Attack. People calling it a Brony skin are being dumb >:C (I'm stunned how much of this there is)

[BROseidon]

Blitz is actually pretty bad right now. Riot nerfed him pretty far into the ground.

[BROseidon]

The only, ONLY thing Riot ever needed to do to fix Blitz is cut the range of his hook.

No, they don't. Blitz already sucks enough as it is.

Thresh, on the other hand...

[BROseidon]

Cait is the easiest ADC, probably. She has like 0 things about her that make her strange/tricky. It's like 100% positioning with her.

Also, shoutout to Reck for starting a Reddit thread with responses from multiple pros and a Rioter.

[BROseidon]

I lurk, since I don't actually post anything on Reddit.

[BROseidon]

Also Fruitstrike is a Rioter. He was on the Riot panel at gaymerX.

[BROseidon]

Also I can't read only Lautemortis posted there >.>

[BROseidon]

I've played like 1 ARAM with Laute. He seems like a nice guy.

[insert thing about being a CoL fan that belongs in the LCS thread here]

[BROseidon]

Pool party skins finally got announced.

Graves now has a shirtless skin.

Riot pls take my money (I already have 2 Graves skins >.>).

[BROseidon]

Finally a shirtless dude skin.

fortunately it's Graves

Fixed that for you.

10/10 would bang Graves.

[BROseidon]

Reign of Gaming has it posted.

Also, GamesCon>Sleep >.>

[BROseidon]

The beach Lee is actually pretty hot. I don't find the other splash arts particularly hot.

[BROseidon]

Man this thread is so gay, not even that Leona fan service appearing 2x on the same page is making a dent in that.

Is this reflective of MS as a whole?

[BROseidon]

It's actually surprising how hard you can carry as support in low-elo games. You just get the adc fed as someone like Sona/Zyra and stomp.

[BROseidon]

1) Yell at your team to give you smiteless leash on buff that is further toplane.

2) Take buff closer to toplane, using smite.

3) Level 3 gank top (1 point in each ability)

Like 90% of junglers like doing this.

[BROseidon]

Crit chance is skewed in the same way that it is in WCIII in order to normalize the rate at which you crit.

And phage with the slow was a horrible item that didn't deserve to be in the game, because phage being good meant that it was a must-buy item for top laners that would make whoever was winning in toplane unstoppable while phage being bad (like it has been for all of season 3) made it a noob-trap.

At least now they can balance the fucking thing.

[BROseidon]

I like DotA item balance a lot except for the fact that BKB exists.

That item was the worst.

[BROseidon]

After worlds they should just ditch Regi and form a new team, going through promos and all that.

They would probably be able to pick up a new midlaner pretty easily (PR0LLY would be hard to pull from CoL given CoL's likelihood of re-entering the LCS, not sure how attached to TBD Arthelon is, especially given NydusHerMain being picked up as a sub for CLG, Salce would be an easy pickup, Ecco might still be attached to VES if they decide to do what CoL did). They could also just pull out a surprise new midlaner from solo queue. After that, they would probably be okay making it through promos, and the new TSM would be boned.

Or Regi can do the smart thing and join Hotshot in the "used to be pro player but now I just make loads of money running the business" group of people. It would probably reduce the tension if his immature ass just weren't present at all.

[BROseidon]

Broseidon, Ecco has quit VES.

I was not aware.

edit AND APPARENTLY I'M GETTING TROLLED.

I honestly think a team with as much potential as VES would be silly to disband because of one bad split. LCS is only going to grow.

[BROseidon]

Reginald is a dick.

That is why.

Everyone should love Complexity because they are a group of standup guys.

[BROseidon]

Means they didn't have the prices high enough ^_^

[BROseidon]

What Saki said.

At the pro level, supports basically go SS+wards (sometimes getting a philo for a shurelia's). Locket goes on the tank.

In Solo Queue this is bad, and it's generally better to go SS+double GP10 early, since your team won't be able to abuse having vision everywhere nearly as well (and they won't be clearing wards as well)

[BROseidon]

Kage's gives AP though, which is nice in solo queue when you want to maintain relevance as a support.

[BROseidon]

Fair.

I also care much less about early wards than mid-game wards. You can cover lane+drag with 2 wards during laning if you watch how they play (most people telegraph incoming ganks fairly strongly)

[BROseidon]

optimal solo queue build for support is double gp10/sightstone because just outgolding the other support gives you an advantage

This.

Also, oracles is still a broken item.

You can also play support Zyra and just build AP instead of aura items and do tons of damage while being completely broken.

[BROseidon]

I'm in Plat IV right now. I actually can't remember the last time I got caught out warding. It's far more common that I go to ward and my laner gets caught out in the 10 seconds I'm gone >.>

[BROseidon]

Porridge and oatmeal are sort of soup-like >.> <.<

ALSO WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT LOL AGAIN SO I CAN PROCRASTINATE ON THIS SPREADSHEET THING I'M MAKING.

Playing champs you enjoy goes a long way. People are generally pretty good at what they play, and playing to have fun (while still trying) results in playing a lot better.

[BROseidon]

Boo them not giving plat or diamond special shit.

Also, yeah, if you don't own elise, the reward unlocks her for you

[BROseidon]

You need to end there.

Also, yeah, at low elos it's few and far between that you can't hard carry. However, I will say that it's true that you can often be at your true MMR while thinking everyone else is worse than you, because Dunning-Krueger+people being good/bad at different aspects of the game (and thus cueing in on different things). This effect weakens as you get better (ie, I am good enough that I can generally recognize my mistakes)

[BROseidon]

For playing on a team:

Communicate effectively what everyone can play, and work on building a champion pool that fits with your team's style. it's pointless to be good at Jayce if your team never runs poke, for instance.

[BROseidon]

Yes.

But then you learn more champions. Those should be learned to fill holes, either personal or team-wide (ie, entire team likes running champs for an aoe-engage comp except your toplaners are Jayce, Nidalee, Shen, and Irelia, or your team decides that they want to be able to run aoe and not get banned out, so despite you playing Vlad and Kennen, they also want you to learn Wukong)

[BROseidon]

Yesterday my diamond friend was watching me play and giving me advice. Probably my favorite piece:

"It's like you understand that people back off sometimes but don't really understand why. I suggest you just never back off until you die."

[BROseidon]

^He's good against Leona, Taric, and Blitz.

None of whom are picked that much right now

[BROseidon]

?

I think I see a Leona every other game I play o.o

I have no idea what game you're playing because I see her once every 10-15 maybe.

[BROseidon]

lolking's stats are iffy. Maybe she's played more at lower levels, because where I am it's literally Sona vs. whichever support I choose to play every game.

[BROseidon]

Also, this thread is great:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/bo ... ?t=3822957

[BROseidon]

True.

In SF, summer is late August through early October, so the skins are timed really well.

[BROseidon]

The pool party graves splash art is now my desktop background. I stare at it occasionally.

I cleaned up/reorganized my desktop so I could stare at it better >.>

[BROseidon]

Which is dumb >:C

Zac needs more nerfs. He should not be allowed to deal damage given how much sustain, CC, tankiness, and initiate he has.

[BROseidon]

That's in Gold, right? I can attest that in my recent trip to bronze and back to about 1350, there was a lot of Leona play. Bronze games are Leona v Sona a lot.

Low plat.

Also, if that's what bronze games are, lol because Leona is a really strong pick against Sona.

[BROseidon]

Use E on minions to last-hit champions behind the minions if you can't reach the champions.

[BROseidon]

Although, Glork, Panzer; is going 1/0/9 better than going 20/25/0?

Yes.

Each kill or assist you get increases your chance to win by about half as much as each death increases your chance to lose. Or something.

Reign of gaming had a post on the numbers, and the conclusion was basically "dying is horrible and you should never suicide for 1-1 trades"

[BROseidon]

Also, regarding the advice above, the biggest one I disagree with is "never support."

Even in shit elo, if you get your adc fed, they'll still win it for you if you're clear with communication and follow them around. At least, more often than not they'll do that.

I was like 10-1 season 2 carrying through silver with Janna >.>

[BROseidon]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p5298318]
On supporting(I'm going to keep it short and I'm going to try not to start a big fight about it): If you get your ADC fed, there's no guarantee he'll no how to carry you(doesn't shoot bullets, always caught, any other bad thing ADCs do that can lose games. If you pink something, there's no guarantee that your jungler or mid laner will care. The biggest advantage to being a real support vs a fake support is generally real supports pack good cc. But at Tissue Paper V you need to ask yourself "Are my 4 horrible teammates gonna do more to help me win then my horrible self getting fed" Generally they won't[/quote]

I strongly disagree, actually.

On average, your team mates will all be as strong as the enemy team (smurf shenanigans not withstanding). If you, as a support, get your ADC more often than not, you will win the majority of your games and improve your rating. It may not be quite as consistent as roflstomping your lane opponent, but at the same time you don't have to fight for roles (I didn't have issues with running into other support mains until high gold, and I supported through silver after each reset. I mained jungle in S1 and didn't pick up support until the end of S1). This means you get to play your best role more frequently, which means you are consistently playing at a higher level.

[BROseidon]

I'm really bad at supporting and I don't really know why. My win rate as support, in bronze, is like 1/8 or something ridiculous, but while I'm playing the role I feel like I'm doing everything that I know to be right, which just means my understanding of what supports actually need to be doing must be critically flawed.

People think support is a lot easier than it actually is.

Like, very few players actually understand where to ward and why, or when it is safe to go ward a location by yourself (this gets into the whole "you should never get caught warding" schtick).

Also, lane presence is hard. It's why I suck at Sona >.>

[BROseidon]

1) Figuring out how your ADC plays and playing to match his play takes a lot of work. If you're out of sync (ie, he's aggressive and you're passive or vice versa), then you're going to lose lane (unless they are also are doing it wrong).

2) Wards, wards everywhere. People undervalue how important it is to have vision everywhere on the map.

[BROseidon]

Shyvana's dad. I am disappoint.

Before they even announced the new champ in the pool party poster.

Riot I am disappoint.

Also the spec thread on the pool party thread is hilarious. Riot's pretty obviously trolling.

[BROseidon]

She has good objective control in that she has the safest initiate in the game, so it's easy as balls to pick people and then take objectives.

[BROseidon]

10/10 you should do it.

I wonder if I could still refer the guy who got me to start playing the game. Not that it matters anymore, but still, I wonder...

[BROseidon]

I'd recommend only playing with bots until you feel like you have a grasp on the controls, then go play with people.

Playing with bots is only helpful for practicing the mechanics of killing people. It doesn't help you improve in any other aspect.

[BROseidon]

yes, that's what i mean. and yeah, i know I can unlock it, but because unless i'm missing something there's no mouse-independent way of map scrolling, it becomes difficult to track manually.

1) Play with unlocked camera. Playing with it locked is just wrong. You'll get used to it very quickly.

2) Spacebar centers the camera on you. So does F1. F2-F5 center the camera on each of your team mates, in the order that their portraits are on the left.

You can also click the minimap to move the camera.

[BROseidon]

Also I'm sad that the next champ isn't coming out until after worlds

[BROseidon]

(well, probably. I don't actually know Riot's release schedule but it would be strange as fuck for them to release her now).

[BROseidon]

Also, don't play Urgot.

False.

I have had periods of insane winrates as Urgot because people don't know how he works.

[BROseidon]

I can't play in windowed mode. If the game isn't full-screen I just can't deal with it >.>

[BROseidon]

Swain has a really strong mid-game if he can keep blue buff on him, then falls off insanely hard. His scaling numbers just aren't good :/

[BROseidon]

But supports can dominate games so hard.

DO ITTTTTTTTTTT

[BROseidon]

I'm surprised you don't see a d5 spike in gold.

It makes sense that you'd have spiking like that, b/c people pay to get into division 5 or a league/a friend will duo to carry them there, then they stop caring and their MMR plummets. Happens a ton, Riot's working on how to address the issue.

[BROseidon]

Are you laning against a mage? Use flat.

Are you laning against a not-mage? Use scaling.

That's roughly the rule I use, although it's not actually perfect (I also run CDR blues on supports >.> because 15% CDR base is hilarious).

[BROseidon]

Ugh, speculation about the new champ that I can't actually talk about.

It's be really fun reading all the spec from the perspective of knowing what the new champ is.

[BROseidon]

I'm NDA'd because I've visited Riots offices. Can't really say anything more because NDA >.>

[BROseidon]

They have a cool office, and the people who work there are all really awesome.

[BROseidon]

Tier lists are relevant only in the sense that investing time in an easier champ gets better results faster (until the champ gets nerfed).

That said, Zyra should also be S-tier. She's the strongest support right now, imo.

[BROseidon]

Thresh has a lot of play making abilities with lantern+hook, but Zyra's e and ult are actually just broken. Her ability to control space in fights is unparalleled.

[BROseidon]

http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/node/6209

SO EXCITED.

[BROseidon]

Riot crumbed that name super hard. I chuckled when I saw the crumb.

[BROseidon]

Vi has the best personality.

[BROseidon]

Any guesses on Jinx?

Her abilities, passive, role, etc?

Yeah I shouldn't say anything...

[BROseidon]

yes

[BROseidon]

JINX, STANDS FOR JINX. DUR.

<3 that line so much.

[BROseidon]

I've spent a lot of money on the game >.>

I'd say that buying champs with RP is fine if they are 6300s on sale. Also, the starter champion packs. Otherwise, don't.

[BROseidon]

It took me about a year of a fuckton of play to catch up and own every champ. Now I gain IP at a rate faster than the release schedule.

And this was with buying the original 40 with RP, and buying a handful of 6300s with RP before I'd caught up.

Owning every champ is insanely valuable for ranked.

[BROseidon]

Vi? Stands for stupid.

[BROseidon]

I feel like you wouldn't have to do that bad...

[BROseidon]

Also, can't wait for Jinx. I would main her, but I'm a support main.

Gypsy needs to design a support so I can main her...

[BROseidon]

My friend went 10-0 in placements and got Plat II

[BROseidon]

Priorities of ADC in team fights:

1) Avoid damage (and therefore dying).

2) Deal damage to things.

3) Deal damage to squishy things.

Optimize.

[BROseidon]

Someone help! I am on that slow downward spiral from promo game to demotion. I am starting to get nervous....

Take a break and play when you're relaxed.

Also, move to California for free Elo.

[BROseidon]

My MMR went from Plat II to Gold I when I moved back to the east coast for college.

50 ping difference.

Granted, I started playing a lot less, but the ping difference hurt a bit. You don't really notice how bad it is until you start missing flashes by like .01 seconds.

[BROseidon]

At the beginning of Season 2, it was a hard reset to 1200, didn't matter if you were Dyrus or a 500 elo who couldn't connect to the game 50% of the time

This is false. It was a soft reset at the start of season 2. However, the degree of "soft" that it was was very limited; I went from 1530 to about 1270 and was getting games with pros sometimes (ran into Nhat/Westrice duo. That was fun...)

[BROseidon]

Yeah, at the end of S1 all the people in the 800-11 range were bitching about it not being a hard reset because "omg stuck in Elo hell give me another chance" without realizing that a hard reset would have resulted in players like me wrecking everyone up until 1400 or so.

There was also the awkward part where they forgot to reset K-values, but then when they did it already took into account the games you'd already played, so it took me a while to climb back up because I was only gaining +17 Elo a win for a while instead of +40

[BROseidon]

Going to try the exp quints thing now...

[BROseidon]

And there's stuff in there that is highly debatable. Fid support was developed in NA largely because of how effectively Fid can deal with Blitz, for instance.

Also, Fid should be listed as a support for Corki, because holy fuckballs Fid/Corki is powerful.

[BROseidon]

I'm also surprised zyra isn't chosen as an effective counter against vayne with the zone control on plants + lockdown.

Tumble to dodge E wrecks Zyra. E is super easy to dodge, and tumble makes it easier.

[BROseidon]

Fid/Corki is especially powerful because of the lvl 6 burst power. Fid fits well with ADCs that have that a high burst spike (or CC spike) at 6, because you can ult->fear and kill them during the duration. If the ADC also doesn't care about peeling coming from the support, even better. Corki, Ashe, and Graves all pair well for him for that reason.

[BROseidon]

Leona and Fid are probably the best solo queue supports. Lulu/Nami/Sona all require more synergy with your ADC.

[BROseidon]

Sona is 3rd best in competitive right now because Zyra is generally stronger and hard-counters her, and Thresh is just dumb. Sona also punishes positioning mistakes harder than any support, which is especially potent if you aren't moving with your ADC to sync up your harass.

Leona is fine in solo queue because you can stun them for like 3 seconds, which is enough time for your ADC to know to go in. Same thing with Fid; having the long CC makes being synergistic easy.

[BROseidon]

Why would you need to convince your top to play AP? You don't actually need an AP every game.

I agree with that list sans Wu Kong. I don't think he's as strong as the rest of that group.

In mid, the safest pick into everything is Ahri. Fizz and Annie are the only things that counter her outright, and Fizz is rough to play and surprisingly few people play Annie. Annie is generally not bad, and she's super flexible in terms of how you can play her (bruiser-mage, pure burst, CDR stun-bot), but she has issues with getting pushed by a lot of mages, and her low range limits her ability to trade effectively (or burst). She's a good pick if you have a strong ganking jungler, though. A lot of AD fighters can go mid and wreck if you put a decent amount of MR runes on them (Wu, J4, Lee, and Riven stand out here). You have to build them as burst-assassins, but it works out pretty well. J4 and Wu are both also very easy to pick up.

Jungle: Rammus is insane in solo queue. He can't carry games, but he's the only jungler who can be omnipresent enough to win every single lane. He sucks in competitive because lol counterjungling and lol having to choose between ganking and clearing, but in solo queue he wrecks. It just takes a few games to get used to how to abuse the fuck out of powerball. Nasus is bad in solo queue. J4 is probably the best solo queue jungler because most people don't know to watch for all of his ward-bypass spots. Also Nasus doesn't counter J4 because J4 ults->Nasus ults, J4 tanks while the rest of his team shoots the Nasus/shoots other people while not being killed by the Nasus. J4 is a really strong pick vs. Nasus because J4 can peel insanely well. Xin is another good jungle pickup, although you have to win the game very quickly with him.

Support: If Zyra and Thresh both get nerfed, learn Fid and Leona. They both counter Sona (who is the most popular solo queue pick). I literally play against Sona every game because I don't play her. Also, it's hard for your ADC not to follow up when you CC them for 3 seconds.

ADC: Here's pros and cons to every ADC

Ashe: Solid champ for learning, super high utility. Has a rough time in lane from 2-6 and has limited damage output.

Cait: Insane laning, can take objectives super easily/safely. Super safe in fights, but the downside is that your damage is weak as.

Varus: Dies to things that can jump on him, but he has high poke and strong trading ability in lane. Also has a good mix of phys/magic damage, which is good in the midgame.

MF: Huge lane bully, can kill the fuck out of shit. She's especially strong in team fights with "Press R to Win" comps. Downside is that, like Varus, she dies to anything that can jump on her.

Corki: Great ability to trade in lane, good damage, decent escape, decent burst/poke. With Triforce good again, his itemization problem is gone. Corki's probably the best overall pick for ADCs right now, and he's one of the best ADCs to pair with Leona and Fid (which I obviously appreciate ^_^)

Graves: Huge burst. Like, insane burst. Also is tanky and front-ends his damage, so he doesn't mind dying to getting jumped on as much. Also, smokescreen is insane. Downside is that it's a bit tricky trading in lane because of his low range, and his sustained damage scaling is horrible for someone with a refreshing 80% AS steroid (this is because his base AS is horrific).

Sivir: Lol Sivir. Riot needs to buff her. She's super fun, but her low range and huge mana cost on Q make her unusable.

Kennen: Can be done, plays a lot like Ashe with stronger laning and less infinite kite.

Draven: Insane damage in lane, solid damage throughout the game. Stand aside is very strong. If he falls behind, he can't do much, and he has a rough time with things that force him not to catch axes (Zyra, Nami, and Leona all love going up against Draven).

Urgot: Nobody knows how to play vs him, and his laning is very strong. His ability to do damage as the game progresses is meh, but his ult lets you negate their ADC so it's k. He just has a rough time vs Cait because she can bully the fuck out of him pre lvl 3 (which is when Urgot starts wrecking).

Jinx: Is clearly the best and everyone should play her (and I'm not biased at all).

Pretty sure I got everyone...

pedit: J4 is better than Lee, Lee just makes flashier plays. Udyr is super kiteable, but is good vs. teams with low range/inability to kite.

[BROseidon]

How strong/weak something is depends entirely on numbers.

Why are we commenting on balance before shit comes out.

[BROseidon]

They might be hard to balance, but there has to be some set of numbers of CD/Stats/etc that make the character balanced unless you assume a jump discontinuity in power across all things that can be modified. Note this also doesn't mean that the solutions that exist are all always good.

[BROseidon]

Dat LP clamp.

Go on a hot streak. MMR rubberbands like crazy in the new system.

Also, I see you like Gypsylord champs

[BROseidon]

Jinx

[BROseidon]

Saki, you were probably dealing with Elo Boosters who had massively inflated the MMR on the accounts without winning enough games to improve leagues.

Reck, just keep winning and you'll eventually break the clamping.

[BROseidon]

/in LS tournament if it isn't too late.

Sounds fun ^_^

[BROseidon]

When I was in NZ I consistently had 140-180 ping (Uni had surprisingly good internet). At first it was annoying, but after a while I got used to it. Just couldn't play anything with really fine combos.

Then I got back to NA and it felt amazing. Also, your MMR magically goes up when you switch to playing with less ping, but you don't even notice it. When I went back to the East Coast after summer, I lost a decent chunk of MMR (went from mid plat to high gold), and I've only recently gained back most of that MMR.

[BROseidon]

So random question here: who was the newest champion when you joined league of legends? For me it was vayne.

Karma

I'm old >.>

[BROseidon]

Nidalee is getting a nerf to her spears.

I'm so incredibly happy right now.

[BROseidon]

Easy ways to pick supports:

1) Pick Sona.

2) If enemy has picked Sona or Zyra, take Leona.

Congratulations, you now are at least even in every botlane matchup.

[BROseidon]

I bought the bundles with the original 40, since spending like 30 bucks on that amount of content seems pretty reasonable.

Then I bought everything with IP, except for a handful of 6300s that I bought on sale with a bit more RP.

[BROseidon]

I don't even play that much anymore (at least compared to what I used to), and I epically outpace the release schedule in terms of IP gains.

[BROseidon]

Once you have all the champs, it's easy to keep up. Keeping up while buying champs is incredibly difficult

This is sooooooo true.

I started playing LoL during my freshman winter, and during that following summer I was playing probably 3-5 hours/day average during the week, and something closer to 8-10 hrs/day during the weekend.

And I still used a bit of RP, and I was still like 15-20 champs away from caught up by the end of it all. I wasn't fully caught up until fairly recently.

[BROseidon]

wow wtf how did you play a game without a yasuo on each team in normal

report everyone on the other team for assisting enemy team cuz not picking yasuo is like deciding that you don't want to win :O :O :O :O

:O

Yasio's really bad right now.

[BROseidon]

And by bad I mean his winrate sucks.

It'll probably be fine once people figure him out more.

[BROseidon]

In all fairness junglers are making good gold right now.

The bigger issue I have is that gold income across the board is up right now, and death timers are shorter early. It makes the games all feel too long.

[BROseidon]

If you think Akali's too complicated, you shouldn't touch Zed.

[BROseidon]

Support LB much better.

[BROseidon]

I remember when people called me crazy for using support Annie.

Then the pros did it. And I lol'd

[BROseidon]

CLG used to run support galio in poke comps. His Q+W is great for poke/kiting, and his ult is a strong counter-engage.

[BROseidon]

Things AD Ahri does well:

Kite. Charm+ult OP as balls.

Things AD Ahri does poorly:

Have damage.

Things AP Ahri does well:

Kite.
Have damage
Roam

Things AP Ahri does poorly:

...

That's why. AD Ahri doesn't have the same damage scaling as other ADC's, even if she has kiting that's not much worse than blue-ezreal's without needing the same item investment. AP Ahri does a shitton of damage (that's burst, which is better), and is super flexible in terms of her landing and roaming power early/mid.

[BROseidon]

welp
went 5-5 in promos on my main and got placed in gold 4
/throws in the trash

if I don't get at least gold 1 on my alt im probably quitting this game for good

I went 4-6 and got Silver 1 :/

Just play for like 2-3 weeks and you'll get back to something respectable. Early season wonkiness fucks shit up anyways.

[BROseidon]

Shield start is fucking broken

[BROseidon]

ADC balance is as much dictated by the supports as it is by the ADCs.

Wait until Leona/Thresh/Annie all get nerfed or until Alistar/Lulu/etc get buffed, then Vayne will be fine.

[BROseidon]

Annie very needs a nerf.

Leona/Annie/Thresh every fucking game and it's getting old.

[BROseidon]

*facepalm*

In League-related news, being in Silver is hilarious. I just throw mechanics at the enemy team and win (seriously, now that I'm back in League shape, my team has to try very hard to lose).

[BROseidon]

EG played Urgot in LCS.

It was weird watching Urgot lose lane b/c Riot buffed the fuck out of Sivir and made Jinx, Lucian, and Draven things

[BROseidon]

During our first game in our collegiate lol match our ADC got a penta at like 15 minutes.

We still managed to almost throw that game :/

[BROseidon]

During our first game in our collegiate lol match our ADC got a penta at like 15 minutes.

We still managed to almost throw that game :/

hey actually you want to talk to me about collegiate lol :O

ping me on Skype at some point about it

[BROseidon]

I have 1. On Corki, I think.

Being a support main makes it hard to get pentas.

[BROseidon]

What do you build on Vayne after you have (IE PD BORK Berserks)?

Uh...

BortK->LW->GA->PD/Shiv->Ie sounds more right as a build path on vayne.

[BROseidon]

Attack speed item second item 100% of the time unless you're sivir (who can go LW second item because ricochet is a broken ability),
or you're going a bulldozer build like BT > IE.
Vayne scales better with PD than shiv, regardless of shiv's bonus damage.

BortK is an AS item

LW second is standard right now because randuin's is fucking broken to shit.

[BROseidon]

Yeah LW is standard on any physical damage champ. I'm not saying it isn't.

I'm saying you don't build it second item because it's not a smart way to use your gold to buy it that early.

Right now a some champs go it 2nd b/c the ArPen is incredibly valuable against the OP tanks.

Here Sneaky goes it 2nd vs. Dyrus's Mundo and TOO's Vi.

Here ROCCAT's ADC goes BT->Zeal->LW (again vs. Mundo)

BotRK is already an AS item, so going something to multiply with it is probably better than going for more AS.

[BROseidon]

Shyv top is very powerful right now. Probably wrecks Lee top.

[BROseidon]

It's the whole misconception of the split push strategy. While the top laner is pushing solo the rest of the team also needs to be pushing. If they aren't on the map, you very likely are gonna die for a tower you don't get or barely get and would of been better off taking in two attempts. This happens a lot in low elo games where top lane is split pushing and you got 1 or 2 guys in base and 2 or 3 guys clearing the jungle because "I need wraiths"

This.

Why I'm sort of a fan of the 1-3-1 split push while all their inners are up. It's easier to organize, and if the AP carry/ADC/Support are good at disengaging, it's very strong.

[BROseidon]

EYE MAGE ANNOUNCED!

[BROseidon]

much more likely to be riot incompetence than ddos

Riot is a much more competent company than people give them credit for.

Although the game engine they built is hilariously laughable. EVERYTHING IS MINIONS.

[BROseidon]

Seriously, the bugs that have existed with J4's let b/c of the fact that it's a bunch of minions are pretty great. Remember when Sejuani would break his wall?

Those were the days...

[BROseidon]

Eye mage is very powerful, especially against champs like Ziggs who can't really dodge his bullshit laser.

I'm pretty sure Leblanc completely ruins his life, though.

[BROseidon]

OH MY GOD THEY FINALLY ANNOUNCED BRAUM.

I'm really excited for him. Like, super duper excited (not as excited as I was for Jinx, but pretty excited)

[BROseidon]

AP, we're gonna be playing Braum/Jinx forever now.

[BROseidon]

Jolly strong men are awesome!

Especially when they have awesome mustaches.

[BROseidon]

Also, looks like some of the final kit got spoiled on reddit.

[BROseidon]

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends ... abilities/

[BROseidon]

Braum+Sivir.

Have fun with that.

[BROseidon]

Got plat last night.

Finally.

Took long enough.

[BROseidon]

Got plat last night.

Finally.

Took long enough.

gratz

welcome to the club

Thanks.

Took me long enough.

Fun fact: One time when I was hanging out with Rioters, CertainlyT made fun of me for complaining about "only being plat."

[BROseidon]

Anyone have any advice for the current support Meta? I have trouble with the aggro supports.

Get good at Lulu.

Start AP gold item.

Go 2nd tier AP item (don't full upgrade)->sightstone->mobility shoes->Twin Shadows->Hat->Void->Sell AP item for 'nomicon.

Win.

[BROseidon]

Or always pick Lulu or Thresh.

They pair with pretty much every ADC and can play aggressively or passively.

And they're both broken to hell.

pedit: Zyra support is kind of meh right now. Better to just go Lulu. She does most of what Zyra does, but better, and has her broken-ass w.

[BROseidon]

Udyr can build whatever the fuck he needs to based on the gamestate.

[BROseidon]

Current season is less about early lead and more about getting picks mid/late.

[BROseidon]

Top lane has the least impact on the game.

Main TF mid if you want to stop that shit from happening. Or Panth jungle.

[BROseidon]

There's almost no reason to go mpen over hybridpen runes.

lololol hydras OP :/

[BROseidon]

The "goals" thing is pretty relevant.

Runes are generally more valuable when used for early advantage over long-term edge. I think the only scaling runes I use are mr/lvl blues on junglers/toplaners in physical match ups, and AP/lvl yellows on some midlaners (might switch these to something else soon-ish).

[BROseidon]

I think that was the common wisdom prior to the rune balance changes, but the balance changes tended to buff the scaling approach (probably in part for that reason).

From what I have read, I think current conventional wisdom is that flat is still recommended in bot lane due to the high rate of early all-ins, but the solo lanes are match-up-dependent (i.e., go flat if you judge you will be forced to trade and will have a different outcome without them; otherwise, go scaling), and scaling runes are recommended in the jungle if you are playing a jungler with safe clears. Scaling runes are also recommended for game modes where you start at a higher level (ARAM/Dominion), since the window where the flat runes are superior ends up being very short.

(But I don't think the rune balance changes affected the hybrid/armor/magic penetration runes.)

Some of it is also probably play style dependent.

Laning mechanics have always been my weakness (I was a jungle main from level 20 through season 2, and I switched to support at the start of season 3). If I were better at winning lane, I'd probably be more okay with scaling runes.

[BROseidon]

I'm thinking of changing back to NA. OCE has way too few players, I keep bumping into the same trolls, and the lack of tribunal is noticeable.

Any thoughts?

When I was playing on NA from NZ, the extra ping was noticeable in how it made my play worse (and I was only playing on 40-50 more ping there than I do on the East Coast).

[BROseidon]

Support Brand actually seems pretty strong right now. at least for the nobody knowing how to fight it factor.

Oh god that shit was the worst.

I also think it hard-counters Sona.

[BROseidon]

Heh

Had an ad lulu/sup katarina botlane yesterday. Effing nightmare

One time, I fucked up my support masteries and had AD jungle masteries on my support Lulu.

I decided to roll with it. Turned out pretty good. We won that game pretty badly, and BotrK+Wit's End+FM Lulu has strong peel and damage.

[BROseidon]

It's not, i just got my ADC fed and then was like "Fuck this he can solo farm, i'm gonna roam mid"

And Sona (I don't even fucking know how) does like 1/2 of the enemy jinx's health from a Q and Passive AA early game (Level 2).

Sona does metric fucktons of damage.

Her damage is brokenly strong early.

[BROseidon]

Chesskid, what was your level of experience before playing ranked? Do you regret starting ranked when you did? How long did it take you to climb from your starting position to where you are now?

I know conventional wisdom is to get 250 normal wins before doing ranked to avoid bronze, but if climbing out is quick enough, I might risk it. I think our normal win count is kinda similar, so I am wondering if I would be in a position similar to you if I start ranked in a month or so.

Granted, I started playing in season 1, but...

I started ranked right when I hit 30 as a jungle main (J4/Amumu/WW main at the time). After placements I was 1300 Elo (so like high bronze/low silver by today's standards, I think), and I only played solo queue thereafter. Ended season 1 at 1520 (which would be gold 5 by today's standards).

I also duoqueued most of my games from level 15 onwards with a reasonably-high mmr player in normals, but if you've been duoing a lot with AP, you're probably in a similar spot.

Also, being a support main is free Elo. Like, if you can function as a support player, you should be pretty good at lower MMRs because you'll consistently outperform the other non-support main who got stuck on support and is angry about it.

[BROseidon]

Except, I've played inhouses. With me being the "offset" to ani and everyone else roughly paired up by league, and anytime ani wasn't support, his team lost.

Like I'm sure he's improved from playing ranked in silver, but the fact remains he got lucky in his promos.

Who you play against is based on your MMR, not your league.

Which is also why you see variation in how much LP you gain/lose. If your MMR is above your league/division, you gain more for wins and lose less for losses (I'm at +24/25 -15 right now because I recently had a streak where I went 16-4 to go from Gold I to Plat III). If you're MMR is below your league/division, you lose more than you gain (or get clamped at whatever 5 because the system wants you to be in a lower league)

[BROseidon]

Also the system adjusts your MMR more as you have consecutive wins/losses.

[BROseidon]

We already know that you're guaranteed to get high gold as long as you have 50% win rate or greater. You just need to play enough to get there.
You also had the distinct advantage of playing enough ranked to not decay to silver 3 twice this season.

Your win rate approaches 50 as you approach where you're supposed to be, so this statement doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you always in 51% of games always and forever, you'll eventually hit challenger. It might just take you a while to get there (this also isn't very realistic, but we can make a weird assumption that your play improves as your MMR increases such that you maintain a 51% win rate)

[BROseidon]

How are your ranked matches selected? For example, are they always at around the same skill level, or is it a function of your normal ELO?

I have a friend who doesn't play ranked but is kind of very good I think. If I duoed with him for placements, how would the difficulty of the placement matches change?

I am a little uncertain because I have seem charts that say things like "10/10 -> Silver 1" and "0/10 -> Bronze V" and such, but it seems like 10 wins is different depending upon whom you won against.

Ranked MMR.

[BROseidon]

(Clarification: I'll be in California with AP; not playing ranked with AP)

This is a bad idea, given that you're both support mains.

Duoing with AP is really funny b/c we have to decide who gets support, and who gets stuck in whatever other role doesn't get claimed.

[BROseidon]

It's because support is the secret to getting high elo.

I'm not serious, but I do find it funny that AP / Brandi / Bro / Myself are all support mains and all high ranked.

Being a decent support is free elo.

[BROseidon]

I think that most people in bronze or silver don't want to main support because they see it as a role that is completely dependent on the skill of your adc (I.e. you can't carry) and they wouldn't trust someone who is in bronze those scrubs

Except this is false.

You can carry really bad ADCs, since anyone can do well once they're ahead.

[BROseidon]

You can carry really bad ADCs, since anyone can do well once they're ahead.

You can carry an average ADC, you can't carry a shit one.

I've carried some super-shitty ADCs.

[BROseidon]

Yeah that site is bad.

Skill is only really seeable in win rate over a large period of time :/

[BROseidon]

Where to place your pinks:

Top lane: Purple should place in tri, blue should place in the too-late bush.

Mid: Small river-bush on blue-side jungle.

Jungle: Entrance to red-side jungle.

Support: Inverse of top, or you can place it at drag when you are about to go for it.

ADC: Same as support.