American Gods Mafia - Game over

[SGRaaize]

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I see a fair number of unfamiliar faces in the player list. That's what I get for inning based on flavor. Nexus, Tasky, Ghost, SGR, Saint, Apoc, Wrath: what is your level of experience?

Oh, I'm experienced alright, I just suck

I don't random vote but since Wrath has already managed to drop a scumtell...

lolwut?

I'm still not used to the fact that the lack of a Random Vote in the RVS is seen as scummy.

Last time I heard, it isn't

@Wrath:

Thanks for your answer, and for confirming that you are scum. Hint: my read has nothing to do with your failure to RV.

[SGRaaize]

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I just want to add that I'm primarily a 9-5 PST poster on the weekdays and mostly offline on the weekends.

Is there a particular reason you mentioned this?

Is there a particular reason you asked about that?

FOS: Locke Lamora

Scumpoint for LL. SGR gets a townie brownie. The rest is *yawn* meh.

What's your reasoning on WraithChild? I am sorry, but your vote-lynch makes no sense

Ythill: Please don't tell me you are referring to the OMGUS vote my wraith as scummy?
Are you a really going to tell me page 1 that scum are going to come in say hi I'm scum and do the most obvious thing?

wait........reads wraith's response.

unvote:
vote: wraith

Wraith's response changes nothing, in this sequence:

vote:WraithChild

for forgetting to random vote.

OMGUS VOTE: Ani

Yeah, because clearly I'm counting on shotty to replace in and self-hammer in endgame.

I see a fair number of unfamiliar faces in the player list. That's what I get for inning based on flavor. Nexus, Tasky, Ghost, SGR, Saint, Apoc, Wrath: what is your level of experience?

I'm loving the sacrifice mechanic. If you fuckers don't revive me before LYLO I will design a bastard invitational for the sole purpose of modkilling you... or something. Also, please save one sacrifice for just before LYLO to improve PoE (like a nolynch at MYLO, only better). Going Backstage is kinda meh, but I've got a couple ideas for how we might make the best of it. It's also a way to mark top townreads.

Elect: Ythill, Llama, Seacore

(honorary only)

I don't random vote but since Wrath has already managed to drop a scumtell...
VOTE: WrathChild

@Ythill:
I've only played in one game on this forum (Cyclic Experiment) and survived to the end and got a town win. However, I play a lot of mafia on another forum and have at least two dozen games under my belt there. However, my first game here was very enlightening and opened my eyes to the fact that this group is much more advanced than where I came from and I'm absorbing all of it with great enthusiasm. That being said, I'm still learning the meta here. For example, I'm still not used to the fact that the lack of a Random Vote in the RVS is seen as scummy.

I just want to add that I'm primarily a 9-5 PST poster on the weekdays and mostly offline on the weekends.

VCA is going to be epic in this game.

@Llama:

Re: Sacrifice mum... fair enough but I think you're ignoring the relevance to our lynch choice. Cardflips are like cop investigations until we use up our Sacrifices. I think the advantage to be gained here is in weighting play toward the mid-game and I'd rather not count on NKs to set up our Resurrection pool.

@Far:

The best way to exploit Backstage is for everyone to elect our strongest townreads on D1. Such play raises the word count (aka slip potential) for anyone who has managed to stay in good graces as scum. It maximizes the chance for a majority-town Backstage that can use the information bottleneck for hunting, and forces people to take explicit town-hunting stances during the day. Why does it sound like you want to proxy responsibility to the majority?

@Ghost:

That's more than sufficient, thanks. I think that this game is a bad place for policy lynches. We'll have two chances to trade policy lynch candidates for competent confirmed town down the road.

@Wrath:

Thanks for your answer, and for confirming that you are scum. Hint: my read has nothing to do with your failure to RV.

Can we get some more votes over here please?

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for:

1) Suspecting WraithChild under no basis (Cause he didn't RV? Doesn't matter. Cause he said "First Post"? Means jackshit. Cause he joked "OMGUS", doesn't mean crap either

2) Thanking WraithChild for a confirmation on being scum, where in the last post he didn't say absolutely anything that would confirm or even slightly give a scum tell (For saying he is inactive at certain parts of the day? Nope, and ythill suspected Locke based on him quoting that. For saying he has victories as Mafia on another game? WIFOM at best, WTH at worst.

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

[SGRaaize]

Nominating people for backstage should be dealt out now, I see no disadvantage in voting for people you trust and putting them in the backstage, so that they can discuss whatever.

@A Gaggle of Geese, Fry me?

[SGRaaize]

Oh, I'm sorry, by "now", I mean Today. I misread your comment

[SGRaaize]

I just meant that we need to base these votes off reads and that the people voting already ARE NOT basing their votes off reads, but instead voting on the poster, but this is a pretty bad way to go about considering the whole random distribution thing.

I get what you mean.
On the other hand, there are certain players that won't help us even if they are Townies and there are certain players that will end up helping Town a little even if they are Mafia just by trying to look Townie.
So, at the end, we gotta end balancing between the two

[SGRaaize]

I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".

I lol'd
I immediatly

FOS

you (Dohohohoh, OMGUS) because you actually think for a second that Scum would not only buddy on their scumpartner, but do it as openly, cleanly and quickly as now.
If I do end up getting lynched... may god have mercy on Town's soul

As far as the SGR lynch topic goes, of course this will be biased, but when I see someone defend a player who was not in need of a defense at the time (Yes, I did not need anyone to stick up for me because the votes on me make no sense and I consider them non-threatening at this time), I tend to think it is scum trying to buddy-up with a townie that they see as a likely lynch in an attempt to gain town-points. I think that scum-babying is incredibly obvious and would be avoided at all costs by scum.

Its not so much as me defending you as me trying to get the logic behind your lynch so I can kill you

[SGRaaize]

I'm still more curious on the beginning of this shitstorm instead of its current state.
What exactly, did Ythill see that could lead to a lynch on WrathChild.
Not only that, but he's not the only one thinking this, this isn't a insane idea in his mind, people are agreeing with him.

I just want to know:

What's so scummy about the first three posts from WrathChild?

[SGRaaize]

First point: I'm sure we, as town, will somehow incredibly survive if you somehow made it to the gallows.

I'm pretty sure the Town isn't gonna survive if it keeps having these lapses in logic

The FOS uses the 'scum wouldn't be so stupid to do that argument,' which is invalid, and illogical, and could lead to WIFOM.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZTIDnWl ... ideo_title

It isn't invalid, nor is it illogical, it may not lead to WIFOM, as it

IS

WIFOM, the logic is obvious, a Mafioso would not put himself on such a prominent role, nor would he go as far as defending his scumpartner when there was one vote placed at him

AtE noted.

AtE means "Appeal to Emotion" according to the Wiki, where the heck did I appeal for your emotion?

Second point: This just sounds scummy.

lol

Why not ask the other players for a case?

We're at 4 pages in the game and you're already lost:

What's your reasoning on WraithChild? I am sorry, but your vote-lynch makes no sense

If you even bothered to ISO me instead of trying to look for an easy target to kill, this wouldn't have happened

'Oh, hi, I'm just going to defend you until I can figure out a way to kill you' in the hands of scum is like, 'Hi, I don't want to look like I'm sheeping but I want to find a legit way to throw you under the bus.'

What it means is simple, apparently there has been a huge scumtell WrathChild gave which I missed, because there were about 3 votes on him for no reason whatsoever aside from a ridiculous BW, I am trying to find logic in the BW so I can follow it, I have not been given logic.

Hi there, SGR. The answer is quite simple.

Elucidate me

In Wrath's second post he changed his behavior in order to fit in.

Completely far-fetched, to say the least

In his third post he eluded to the fact that he wouldn't have failed to random vote at all but he'd forgotten it was considered scummy here, thereby confirming that his top priority is avoiding suspicion.

That's a good point, I think its still a little bit far-fetched, but I see where you're getting at

[SGRaaize]

Vote Lynch: Ghostlin

WrathChild admitting to trying to sound less suspicious sounds good, but Ghostlin voting me with bad arguments and lack of attention leads me to believe he's just trying to look good while joining a BW he thinks will pick up steam

[SGRaaize]

HEY SGR STOP IGNORING ME

I can't argue "Gut Reads", I'm sorry

[SGRaaize]

You must think I'm your servant or whatever...

...

Fine... Will do

[SGRaaize]

First point: I'm sure we, as town, will somehow incredibly survive if you somehow made it to the gallows.

I'm pretty sure the Town isn't gonna survive if it keeps having these lapses in logic

The FOS uses the 'scum wouldn't be so stupid to do that argument,' which is invalid, and illogical, and could lead to WIFOM.

It isn't invalid, nor is it illogical, it may not lead to WIFOM, as it

IS

WIFOM, the logic is obvious, a Mafioso would not put himself on such a prominent role, nor would he go as far as defending his scumpartner when there was one vote placed at him

AtE noted.

AtE means "Appeal to Emotion" according to the Wiki, where the heck did I appeal for your emotion?

Second point: This just sounds scummy.

lol

Why not ask the other players for a case?

We're at 4 pages in the game and you're already lost:

What's your reasoning on WraithChild? I am sorry, but your vote-lynch makes no sense

Link: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638
If you even bothered to ISO me instead of trying to look for an easy target to kill, this wouldn't have happened

'Oh, hi, I'm just going to defend you until I can figure out a way to kill you' in the hands of scum is like, 'Hi, I don't want to look like I'm sheeping but I want to find a legit way to throw you under the bus.'

What it means is simple, apparently there has been a huge scumtell WrathChild gave which I missed, because there were about 3 votes on him for no reason whatsoever aside from a ridiculous BW, I am trying to find logic in the BW so I can follow it, I have not been given logic.

Hi there, SGR. The answer is quite simple.

Elucidate me

In Wrath's second post he changed his behavior in order to fit in.

Completely far-fetched, to say the least

In his third post he eluded to the fact that he wouldn't have failed to random vote at all but he'd forgotten it was considered scummy here, thereby confirming that his top priority is avoiding suspicion.

That's a good point, I think its still a little bit far-fetched, but I see where you're getting at

[SGRaaize]

I'm not a bandwagon hater, I'm a hater of Mafiosos that jump in BW's which they are sure will pick up steam, which I'm fairly positive Ghostlin is

I don't want to join a Bandwagon against WrathChild, because, honestly, even if your logic has its merits, it is far-fetched, and I don't want to join a Bandwagon against me, because, well, I don't wanna die.

So, I'm fine with these:

1) Locke Lamora, for a weird reaction to a comment on activity time.
2) Ghostlin, for the previously stated reasons
3) animor for thinking I am incredibly retarded and for placing down a small FoS so he can vote me later if the BW picks steam

[SGRaaize]

Alright, so I'm being voted here.
Honestly, looking back at this game, I see nothing I did wrong, thus I don't feel guilty of this wasted day.
Have fun

[SGRaaize]

3) animor for thinking I am incredibly retarded and for placing down a small FoS so he can vote me later if the BW picks steam

Wait, saying that I'm suspicious of someone is scummy? First I've heard of it. Tipping point = reached.

unvote, vote: SGRaaize

>MFW you do exactly what I said you would do (Place a FoS and then lynch me when the BW picks steam)

I find it odd that SGR would defend Wraith so earnestly. He does state he sucks at mafia so is it far outside the realms for him to defend his scum partner?

I guess I could do that if I want to use the argument that I would never be a Mafioso defending on my Scumpartner as obviously as this

Also what the hell is with 2 fos's and no votes? What is the point of an fos? What is the point of not voting?

I like having Multiple FOS'es and being careful with my lynches

@SGR: Did you read the book the game is named after?

Nope

Why vote for Ghostlin over lets say morph who had poor reasoning to vote for you?

Both had bad arguments, animor seemed to place a vote on me and wait for the BW to pick steam, and Ghostlin made terrible arguments against me when the BW picked up steam.

I think Ghostlin is more obvious than animor. But I am fine with a lynch on Locke or animor

Ythill, wrath is scummy, but he's just sort of flailing. SGR is trying to avoid confrontation and attention. I find the latter more insidious, and definitely worthy of my attention first and foremost.

I'm trying to avoid confrotation and attention? Are you reading the same game I am?

he's showing extreme frustration

I'm hardly frustrated, I just don't see why people would vote me, if I end up getting voted, that's life

None of the things you've just stated are fact. Its all spin. You're spinning things to try to make SGR look better.

You're spinning everything to make me look worse, so, lol

Meanwhile, I'l change the vote to the biggest Bandwagon between my suspicions

Unvote

Vote: Animor

And I think I can decide on my election as of now:

Elect: farside22, Seacore, ythill

[SGRaaize]

Ythill, why do you think Apok is scum? You never mentioned him before, and now he's one of your scumreads.
What changed your mind?

I'm not suspecting you, btw, I'm curious

[SGRaaize]

Basically, Ythill doesn't want to vote for you because you aren't a BW, with only 2 votes on you and not many agreeing to join it.
If I could, I would also have you killed today, for sure

[SGRaaize]

Elect: farside

I'm not seeing the Ghost-hate. Ani's last post is amusing; not necessarily because of the vote, but because of his failure to acknowledge that he was doing exactly what SGR said. Worth keeping an eye on, but I still like my SGR vote more (and I agree with Tasky as regards the scumminess of SGR's giving up post).

Looking at the interaction between OGML and AGar, OGML did misrepresent SGR, which is never good, but I'm actually getting fairly town feelings about him.

Wrath's completely dropped off the face of the earth in the last few pages, I see; the game's been moving pretty fast so it's not the biggest scumtell in the world, but still noteworthy.

Preview edit: I had a thing saying I hoped Llama would post before going V/LA and he did! That accusation against Ghost actually makes a fair bit of sense, I'll have to look into it more.

So, you agree with the logic that Ani was clearly FoSing me so he could BW me later, but you think that I'm still scummier, based on the fact I said "If you vote me, may god have mercy on this Town" (which isn't "If I'm lynched we're doomed", but more like "If you are derpy enough to lynch me for the reasons you have, then I don't see you winning this")

Ok then

1. Tells Farside Ythill would make much more sense as a suspect than WC:

What I said is that, on the sequence of messages I showed (The 4 quotes), you should have seen Ythill as the scummiest person of the group, because he was the one to cause a shitstorm for no motives, I have been corrected on the "no motives part", he does have motives, but honestly, they the one that started the shitstorm is completely far-fetched and the one after that is a little bit too far-fetched for my tastes

2. States people should nominate those they trust to go backstage:

Yes...

3. Nominates Ythill:

I am not contradicting myself, I said that Ythill was the one to cause the shitstorm between him and WrathChild, and I explained why one neutral person should see Ythill as the scummiest of the two based on those 4 posts. Regardless, I trust Ythill for his logic and scumhunting.

Am I being confusing? I think its fairly clear.

[SGRaaize]

What? The only thing I disagreed on was WrathChild, we agree on Ghostlin and Ani, and we semi-agree on you.

[SGRaaize]

BTW, by that logic, you also have to suspect Ythill, amirite?
I disagreed with him on WrathChild "all the way through the game", yet he says I am a Town-read

Unfortunately, you decided to overlook Ythill.

I sure wonder why, I wonder if it has to do with the fact I have 6 votes on me

[SGRaaize]

Here's the deal
Ythill votes Wrathchild under a extremely far-fetched motive
Wrathchild responds confused
Ythill now gets a logic (although still way too far-fetched for my taste) scum-tell from Wrathchild

^
If I had to vote one of these two, I'd vote Ythill, because he was the one to create the shitstorm, first making a vote out of something very far-fetched, so that he could use a read later. What I said here wasn't supposed to mean "I suspect Ythill" (and I'm fairly positive it didn't give that impression). It was in answer to farside22 seeing the same thing Ythill saw in WrathChild's response.

I was basically saying "What the heck are you guys seeing in WrathChild that is scummy? If I had to vote someone, it'd be Ythill, he was the one to create this in the first place"

Now, Ythill has made good points aside from this (and he followed a BW on me while saying I'm a Town-read, so, basically, he wants to lynch someone, which isn't Scummy, wasting days with NL's = Scummy) and I trust him.

So, I elected him.

I hope that makes it clear

[SGRaaize]

How exactly would I be making a Noob Mistake by trying to see logic in a BW with far-fetched motives on someone?
You assume two possibilities, Noob Mistake and Planned Gesture, you ignore Noob Mistake because you don't think I'm a noob, that's all fine, but you're missing the possibility where I actually wanted to find out what people found on WrathChild that justified a BW

[SGRaaize]

SGR: so you don't think Ythill coming up with 'far-fetched' reasons to vote WC is scummy?

Meh, stand-alone, it might be, but I have a Town-Tell on Ythill overall

Also, you never answered my question about me talking about WC's schedule.

I thought you were the one that didn't answer,

SGR: I'll answer you once WC answers.

[SGRaaize]

I asked WC about his schedule statement because for him to declare it unprompted, particularly when he wasn't actually about to go on V/LA, hinted at a concern that people might call him out on his schedule otherwise.

So...?

I think that's more likely to be a scum concern than town.

I honestly don't see why, I think you saw WC being targeted by people and decided to add your own spin so you could join the BW on him if it ever picked up steam, there's absolutely nothing scummy about saying when you are inactive, its a complete null-tell

Why did you think it was a) weird and b) lynch-worthy for me to ask that?

Answer above

[SGRaaize]

Also, regarding those who suspect me because of my "Have fun" giving up message, I can't blame you for that one, but there's context behind it.
I was gonna sleep (as it can be noted from the space between that message and the next message) and I was expecting the Lynch to fall on me by those 8 hours, so I gave my last message.

It is scummy, I'l admit that, but I am not Scum

[SGRaaize]

Lolwat? You think I was trying to lynch you

and

that makes me town? I had no intention of letting you get past L-2.

You weren't? No offense, dude, but I find that hard to believe

[SGRaaize]

8.

SGRaaize:

Overall has had pretty town play as of late, but earlier on he seemed to express a bit of self-importance when saying town would lose if he's lynched, which kind of ties into my point about the fear of the noose earlier. If he's lynched and so critical to our chances of winning, why would he just not assume that we would revive him when the time is right, unless of course he is scum. Overall, I have mixed feelings on SGR and need some more time to sort those out.

You got it all wrong, I didn't mean Town will lose if it lynches me, I meant Town will lose due to being derpy if it lynches me for the reasons its lynching me

[SGRaaize]

BTW, read notes are a pretty bitchin idea, but I'm way too lazy to do them anywhere other than at the beginning of the days.

[SGRaaize]

I don't think so, Me, Ani and Ghostlin seem to be the only Wagons we can form D1

[SGRaaize]

Ghostlin is def more scummy than Ani, although I don't see the reason for the change now that the Bandwagon is midway.
Still, I rather get Ghostlin killed than Ani

Unvote

Vote: Ghostlin

[SGRaaize]

@SGR:

The reason for the change is that we are far from done with D1. And, actually, ani is scummier than Ghost by current standings, but I suppose you had no way of knowing that.

By current standings?

[SGRaaize]

I've skimmed the big wagons in iso, and I completely understand the one on SGR
his "town will be in a bad spot if I die" is pretty bad.....

Oh, come on, I have explained this time and time before

"I'm pretty sure the Town isn't gonna survive if it keeps having these lapses in logic"

Considering you suspect me for this line I said, shouldn't you be agreeing with me? If before this line I was saying nothing worth Lynching for, then that line makes sense and the Town is having lapses of logic.

I don't like this either.
care to explain this? thanks.

There is literally nothing to explain, Ythill has been scumhunting, has been active, has been agressive, and aside from his Lynch on WrathChild, has had logic.
I don't need a deeper motive to Elect someone

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TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Case on SGR:

ISO 0: Doesn't really answer Ythill's question. The other three comments are less than useful.

Doesn't matter, and the other three comments are regarding my defense on WrathChild

ISO 1: FOS Locke about asking why WC would post specific availblity. If you're on, you're on. If you're not...don't you have a signature for that? (Personally I didn't find either motive scummy. If Locke wants detailed reasoning about someone's schedule or why they felt like posting it, go nuts.)

Alright, personally, I saw it as Locke leaving a breadcrumb on the path to WrathChild's lynch by using a Null-Tell as something suspicious.
That BW never ended up picking steam, though, which is why Locke Lamora may have stopped giving attention to that bit of detail (Then again, to be fair, he was answered and there was not much to pressure on, so he might have just made a honest question)

ISO 4: I quoted this directly because of the reasoning here. He's making an argument of letting scum players live because they could help Town a litte--this isn't a protown argument, nor necessarly playing to the wincon.

It means they can be scumhunted at Night, ya bloody goose

ISO 5: "Scum wouldn't be that dumb!" defense.

Regardless of WIFOM, it makes sense, you have to accept the fact that the chances of Scum doing what I did to defend a Scumbuddy D1 are way below 50%

AtE: "If I do end up getting lynched... may god have mercy on Town's soul". Ranks right up there with "You're making a huge mistake!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, meh, fair enough. Honestly, though, its true, if I was gonna get lynched for the previous posts's reasoning, may God have mercy on Town's soul

"Its not so much as me defending you as me trying to get the logic behind your lynch so I can kill you" = "Please let me understand your case so I can lynch you, please."

Erm... Yes... That's what I said... Derp... That means I am Town because I want to lynch someone to advance the day but I want good reasoning to lynch that person.

ISO 6: " I'm still more curious on the beginning of this shitstorm instead of its current state." Shouldn't you care about the wagon as it's shaping up?

.____. What? I was more interested at what started the stupid BW, which was YThill, because I thought it was weird and was asking logic on him. You're just grasping at straws now, buddy, you have made one legitimate point in this shitstorm until now.

ISO 7: His response to my post. His first comment "Town won't survive these laspses in logic" makes it sounds like he's more vital than the rest of town.

No, it doesn't, it makes it sound like Town would be dumb to vote me for the reasons it was voting me, AND GUESS WHAT, IT IS!!!

No, sorry. I could see a scum doing that just to make the argument he wouldn't do such a blantant thing as buddy his scum buddy, make town swallow that pill so he can get town cred.

Except that's ridiculous, unnecessarily risky and dumb. And although it could happen, don't you agree it has more chances of

NOT HAPPENING

?

As for the AtE: look up.
I like how your only comment to 'this sounds scummy' is 'lol'. I see you take these arguments seriously.

lol

The rest is fine, except you did go on and on about how Ythill's reasoning is faulty. Twice. And didn't vote him. At all, once.

I have a Town-tell on YThill, as I said before, I think he's an active scumhunter, and I think he did a mistake on WrathChild, not every Town has to be a perfect scumhunter without any failures, I think its time you and Locke move on from that argument

ISO 8: Votes me for fallacious reasoning.

Fallacious reasoning? LOL'D. I'l show ISO #8 again, and you try to argue it.

First point: I'm sure we, as town, will somehow incredibly survive if you somehow made it to the gallows.

I'm pretty sure the Town isn't gonna survive if it keeps having these lapses in logic

The FOS uses the 'scum wouldn't be so stupid to do that argument,' which is invalid, and illogical, and could lead to WIFOM.

It isn't invalid, nor is it illogical, it may not lead to WIFOM, as it

IS

WIFOM, the logic is obvious, a Mafioso would not put himself on such a prominent role, nor would he go as far as defending his scumpartner when there was one vote placed at him

AtE noted.

AtE means "Appeal to Emotion" according to the Wiki, where the heck did I appeal for your emotion?

Second point: This just sounds scummy.

lol

Why not ask the other players for a case?

We're at 4 pages in the game and you're already lost:

What's your reasoning on WraithChild? I am sorry, but your vote-lynch makes no sense

Link: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638
If you even bothered to ISO me instead of trying to look for an easy target to kill, this wouldn't have happened

'Oh, hi, I'm just going to defend you until I can figure out a way to kill you' in the hands of scum is like, 'Hi, I don't want to look like I'm sheeping but I want to find a legit way to throw you under the bus.'

What it means is simple, apparently there has been a huge scumtell WrathChild gave which I missed, because there were about 3 votes on him for no reason whatsoever aside from a ridiculous BW, I am trying to find logic in the BW so I can follow it, I have not been given logic.

and:

Vote Lynch: Ghostlin

WrathChild admitting to trying to sound less suspicious sounds good, but Ghostlin voting me with bad arguments and lack of attention leads me to believe he's just trying to look good while joining a BW he thinks will pick up steam

ISO 12: Doesn't like the Ythill case on Wraith, never votes it, doesn't really vote for anyone on the Wrath wagon, Doesn't like my case on him; I must be scummy.

Hmm, alright, this one kind of makes sense if seen from a neutral point:

1) I think the WrathChild was just something YThill wanted to do at the beginning of the day, as to start discussion (It did)
2) The people that followed, I didn't care much for it, in one of them, I had a Towntell on them (farside22) as soon as he started posting, even if he was kinda weird with that "Oh, I see it now" comment.
3) You, on the other hand, decided to join my BW, which was clearly picking steam, and your logic DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, it wasn't like YThill's, which was far-fetched but I could see working, yours doesn't make any sense, it only started making sense when I said "Town is doomed" (and everyone misread what I meant with that), until then, you had nothing on me and you clearly used derpy arguments (which I all countered in that quote thing I did above, and you didn't answer, yet I'm using faulty arguments, LOL)

ISO 13: Kinda a 'I give up' reverse AtE. "I don't care any more guys, I give up, have fun."

Hmm, yep, yep, fair enough, second legitimate point but to give it some context, I was gonna sleep, and I was kinda expecting to be lynched by then (I don't believe YThill would unvote me when we were at L-2)

ISO 14: I was the second one on your wagon besides OMGL, who you've not suspected. In fact, you've never asked for clarification on OMGL's case on you.

OMGL said "Gut feeling", I asked "Fry me?" = "Why me?", he didn't answer. Considering he has been tunneling on me all game, I ignored him and hoped people would do the same. Honestly, though, I get what you mean, I should have FoS'd him or whatever, but I didn't, my priority is you and Ani.

ISO 15: Asks Ythill why he suspects Apok, but says he doesn't suspect him.

So?

ISO 16: Tunnels on me. At this point, he's thrown out any case at all and just tunnels.

Bullshit, start answering to the fucking arguments I'm making like what I'm doing here instead of non-chalantly putting your fingers on your ears and screaming you can't hear me

ISO 17: "If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for:

1) Suspecting WraithChild under no basis (Cause he didn't RV? Doesn't matter. Cause he said "First Post"? Means jackshit. Cause he joked "OMGUS", doesn't mean crap either

2) Thanking WraithChild for a confirmation on being scum, where in the last post he didn't say absolutely anything that would confirm or even slightly give a scum tell (For saying he is inactive at certain parts of the day? Nope, and ythill suspected Locke based on him quoting that. For saying he has victories as Mafia on another game? WIFOM at best, WTH at worst.

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it"."

"What I said is that, on the sequence of messages I showed (The 4 quotes), you should have seen Ythill as the scummiest person of the group, because he was the one to cause a shitstorm for no motives, I have been corrected on the "no motives part", he does have motives, but honestly, they the one that started the shitstorm is completely far-fetched and the one after that is a little bit too far-fetched for my tastes...

I am not contradicting myself, I said that Ythill was the one to cause the shitstorm between him and WrathChild, and I explained why one neutral person should see Ythill as the scummiest of the two based on those 4 posts. Regardless, I trust Ythill for his logic and scumhunting."

Which of these statements is not like the other one? There was no specific person he was addressing this to, btw. This "neutral person" he was talking about didn't exist. He was covering his bases until a Ythil lynch showed up, and then backpedaled when it didn't. I'd even give him points if he said, "Yeah, I suspected Ythill, but I don't now and here's why," but he doesn't do that, he posts blantatly the opposite.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
Did you really think I was dumb to the point of thinking people were gonna lynch YThill when they were electing him? This is the second time you rely on me being a Mafioso that's retarded and 100% incapable of thinking

ISO 18: SGR: What, Ythill and I have the same suspicions!

We do

ISO 19: SGR: "No, I'm not doing this for populist reasons. By your reasoning, you must also suspect Ythill of being scummy."

Yep, although this point has been legitimately argued by Locke Lamora

ISO 20: Does everything I wanted in ISO 17 except say he suspected Ythill for suspecting Wrath Child for bad motives.

What?

Bad logic on anyone but him=not scummy.

Look here, Ghostlin, your logic was clearly to join a BW on me that was already ongoing, YThill's logic was to create a BW on WrathChild that was ignored when WrathChild brought up his points (and I defended him, I guess), can you stop pretending they're the same thing when they clearly aren't?

Asking followup questions about V/LA, even if your reasoning may be rooted in what you think is logical= scummy.

Wrong

ISO 24: "I'm not scum because I said something scummy!" No, you're scum because you're backpedaling on a suspicion that you originally had to set up a lynch; have been applying differing standards to everyone, have mirrored the tells of someone with more town cred than you and your biggest opponent and one of your agitators of your lynch, have contradicted yourself and backpedaled AND have been saying scummy things in the middle of it. That's why you're scummy.

Once again, you think I was gonna try to lynch YThill, come on, now, son

ISO 29: And the tunnel on me continues.

This is the part where you argue my arguments, because I am clearly giving them and not just going OMGML on your ass

tl;dr: SGR's only built cases on people he's confident he can take to lynch.

Like YThill, amirite? And me trying to see logic on a BW on WrathChild when it was growing on me trying to lynch the biggest BW, amirite? You have read my ISO's, yet you truly believe you, I am so positive you are scum its not even funny

As soon as a person becomes popular, he seems to drop the case against them, seeming to even backpedal in the case of Ythill.

Ythill was popular way before I "backpedalled" in your words

I'm not saying people can't change their minds, but he's not admitted that

I haven't changed my mind, I have explained what I was meaning with "If I have to lynch a person of these two, it would be YThill for starting the shitstorm on almost nothing", you have to understand that there's a certain plane and then there's the wider picture, and YThill isn't scummy on the wider picture

quite the opposite, he claims the only reason he'd begin a sentence that started with "If you have to suspect someone..." was to compare the play the other person being accused at the time.

...
...
Yes... ._.

There's more than a few blatant buddying posts, first to WC

I was clearly buddying up to WC so I could lynch the bigger BW which was... erm... WC, oh shit.

than to Ythill

I always trusted Ythill from the beginning he answered my questions, he scumhunts, he's agressive and overall, he makes sense, even if he far-fetched a little too much on WC, he's town. Me disagreeing with him on one point =/= Me suspecting him, get over it

(the WC defense is amusing, apparently scum are much too smart to buddy their partners)

Your attack is even more amusing, because you think scum would defend their partners on a Page-1 BW without much logic as I have defended him, you are obviously being a bullshitter here

He's almost deliberately blind to the faults of the people who are voting the same way as him, however, if you oppose him in anyway, watch out. Also, he's said a few things that are a little more than scummy.

You have brought two legitimate points on me, you won't be as credible as you want to be until you answer to my "faulty" arguments on you

[SGRaaize]

@SGR:

Brevity please.

Ghostlin believes I am retarded enough to Chainsaw defend my scumbuddy D1 when he got two votes at the first page of the thread and believes I am retarded enough to think you might be lynched soon even though you had votes for election and people trusting you.
Furthermore, Ghostlin makes a colossal Wall of Text based on those two assumptions, leaving only two good points against me behind (I "gave up" and "May god have mercy on this Town's soul if I am lynched")
He says I didn't mind lapses of logic against other people but when its against me its a big deal (even though the whole point bases on the fact I defended lapses of logic against WrathChild)

And its all bullshit.

Brevity for you <3

[SGRaaize]

BTW, I do not agree with OhGodMyLife BW, I agree that Tunnel =/= Scum, and I think OhGodMyLife is not scum, but a person that just isn't trying.
He would be a good lynch if there weren't any other suspects and we wanted to proceed the game without NL's, but I think that Ghostlin and Ani are better choices, so I'l keep my vote on Ghostlin

[SGRaaize]

1) Are you kidding me? Are you ignoring my posts, or something?

BETWEEN THE TWO, YTHILL SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SCUMMIER BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE TO START THE SHITSTORM ON WRATHCHILD OVER NOTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE. I SUSPECT

NONE

OF THEM, I DON'T SUSPECT

NEITHER

. THEY'RE

BOTH TOWN

. What are you missing?

2) I didn't admit I buddied up, I kind of defended him in an attempt to see the logic on WrathChild, also, how funny is it that you argue that I am scum because I'm budding up with WrathChild at the same time that you argue that I am scum because I am trying to find a reason to lynch WrathChild? LOOOOOOOOOOOL

3) Two legitimate points, I'l give you those. Even if you are clearly spinning it out of context because: 1) I meant "Town is doomed if it lynches me because of this" = "Town is dumb" = "Town is losing". And 2) I was gonna sleep, and I was expecting to be lynched before I woke up. But yes, two legitimate points. (BTW, its not Mea Culpa, quite the opposite, as I said it wasn't my fault)

4) OMGL gave me the read that he just isn't trying, he said he had a Gut Feeling on him, which I think is not exactly a Town-Tell, but it isn't a scum-tell either, you, on the other hand, are trying to Town-Tell by making "logic" reasons to vote me, even though 90% of those logic reasons aren't logic at all and show either you: 1) Didn't pay attention. or 2) Are trying to lynch me at all costs, specially now that you've been called on it. And that, contrary to OMGL, is a scum-tell

5) You were the second to vote, but you were far from the second to show some suspicion towards me in one way or another. Gaggle, OMGL, Animorpherv, WrathChild. That's quite a big BW already, so you didn't need to predict jackshit

[SGRaaize]

1) Its exactly what I said, ya dunce

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill

If you have to suspect someone, it should be

If you have to suspect someone

If you have to suspect

If

you

have

to

suspect

2) ...... You're refering to

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638

Saying "It might look like I'm buddying" =/= Admit I'm buddying.
Protip: I wasn't

And way too ignore

how funny is it that you argue that I am scum because I'm budding up with WrathChild at the same time that you argue that I am scum because I am trying to find a reason to lynch WrathChild? LOOOOOOOOOOOL

3) Ah, fair enough, yes, it kinda looks scummy on retrospective, my bad, once again, those are the only two legitimate points you have against me, though. And they aren't enough for a lynch, IMO

4) I haven't contradicted myself, get over it.

5) As of that moment, there was nothing good for people to suspect me, the two points in which I can be suspected are my "Give up" post and my "You are doomed" post. In that moment, there was a big BW on me for no reason, and you joined it with even more bad arguments against me.

[SGRaaize]

I disagree with Agar's logic.
When a person says Sure, it obviously doesn't mean he's 100% positive the target is gonna appear scum, I think Agar is trying to bust OGML on worthless semantics. And I find it hard to believe Agar actually believes what he's typing.

And yeah, as I said, I think this wagon is positive, I think OGML is just a Townie that isn't trying hard, Ghostlin is scum

[SGRaaize]

Oh. You’re up. That’s good. You want coffee? We’re going to rob a bank

lol'd

[SGRaaize]

>MagnaofIllusion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPm_9YWR ... re=related

[SGRaaize]

Why are you asking me?

[SGRaaize]

When you answer my question, I'l answer yours

[SGRaaize]

My ISO EXO on farside22:


1) Wants to lynch werewolf for meta cause he sucks. Null

2) Thinks that we should put on Backstage 2 Town and 1 Scum so that the Scum can be grilled. Null but logic

3) Questions the Hydra. Null

4) Questions the Hydra. Null

5) First questions YThill's read, but then finds something in Wrath's response that changes everything. Null but not logic.

6) Questions Ghostlin's towntell on Ythill, thinks its weird how I defended Wrath. Questions himself if I'm a bad player to the point of defending my Buddy Partner day 1. Finds my 2 FoS's and no lynches weird as fuck. Asks me why I am voting Ghostlin instead of Morph. Elects himself and ythill. Towny and Logic.

7) Answers to Agar in a logic way. Towny and Logic.

8) Elects Agar, sees my Meta and semi-clears me. Towny and Logic (Although Meta, urgh)

9) Asks why Wrath should hold back on Backstage votes. Notices Ghostlin's selective reading. Argues against Morph with logic points. Doubts OhGodMyLife's stupid logic. Votes OMGL. Towny and Logic.

10) Thinks llama voted me for BW's sake. Towny and Logic.

11) Once again, has logic points against Ghostlin. Questions llama more. Towny and Logic.

12) Argues with animorph using valid points. Towny and Logic.

13) Rightly rolls eyes at with OhGodMyLife for unelecting him. Once more disputes OhGodMyLife's stupid logic and lack of trying. Towny and Logic.

14) Starts targetting GG once he got vote-lynched by him, however, he does make valid points. Weird but Logic.

15) Questions vezokpiraka. Towny and Logic.

16) Nothing interesting. Null

17) Starts getting very defensive against GG. Weird and not Logic.

18) Finally votes GG. Makes some sense. Weird but Logic.

19) Keeps getting agressive on GG. Weird but Logic.

20) Going all-out on GG. Weird.

21) Completely chaotic, but makes some semblance of sense. Weird but Logic.

22) Argues the bullshit logic from Gaggle of Geese. Towny and Logic.

I don't even need to go ISO Agar, I remember him arguing about semantics. So, if I had to lynch between Agar and Farside, I'd lynch Agar

[SGRaaize]

Honestly, though, I still want to lynch between Animorph and Ghostlin. Although at this point, I wouldn't mind joining a BW on you, OGML, I largely ignored you as you went on Tunneling me, cause I got from you a read of someone who is Town but isn't trying. But I am getting valid reasoning against you.

Ghostlin and Animorph are still my priority, though.

[SGRaaize]

Weird = Weird I use the expression "Weird" because I am fairly positive farside22 is Towny, but, stand-alone, those posts are scummy.

OMGL, you asked me who I'd rather lynch between Agar and farside22. I ISO'd farside22 and told you why I trust him. I trust him more than I trust Agar. That's all there is to that post. Don't take any deeper meaning from me not writing a ISO EXO on Agar

[SGRaaize]

6 out of 22. Plus, the fact that they are nearly not scummy enough to compare to the rest of the Towny posts.

[SGRaaize]

Huh? Not really, I like to look at everything overall. Which is why farside22 was kinda scummy with the overly defensive tone against Gaggle, but I still feel as if he's town for the rest of his posts.

[SGRaaize]

Oh, you are saying this because i said 6 out of 22? That was in a answer to Gaggle saying I found half of the posts from farside22 scummy, yet I didn't think he was scummy.
Which isn't true, because there were only 6 out of 22 posts I found scummy, and even those were just a little weird due, and they still bought good points.

[SGRaaize]

@SGR:

If you are still alive and not confirmed town when the time comes to revive me, please consider sacrificing yourself.

I don't mind being a sacrifice target, I'm just not sure if I want you to be the one revived. Its way too early for us to be thinking about this anyways.

[SGRaaize]

@SGR

– I’m going to be lazy and just ask you … were you scum in Gorrad’s Large again? I’ll look it up later if I have to but it will go a long way to solidifying what side of the ledger I think you are on ..

Nope

[SGRaaize]

Guys, I think we can all agree that Ani is scum. As far as my eyes told me as I reread the thread. There's not one person that believes Ani is town.

Unvote

Vote: Animorpherv

I think he's the best wagon to take, considering pretty much everyone agrees on his lynch.

[SGRaaize]

Good point

Unvote

Vote: OGML

To be honest, although I see some scum pointers from him, I don't think he's nearly as scummy as Ani or Ghostlin. But I don't mind lynching him. I think we have got as much as we could from this day.

[SGRaaize]

Ghostlin, Gaggle, Nexus, farside22, Saint, Apolakypktika, vezokpiraka, werewolf, llama, Ythill. ALL ABOARD THE TRAIN

[SGRaaize]

What defense? He said he wouldn't worry about this until Thursday, elected me (Derp?) and went away.
Fuck that shit, let's hammer, I can't wait three more days

[SGRaaize]

I am waiting for you to Hammer, DO IT!!!

[SGRaaize]

Yeah, we got as much as we could from this day. But sure, let's wait 11 more days, then.

[SGRaaize]

Yeah, I'm not changing my vote, in fact, regardless of how scummy I am, I ain't talking today either.
This day just got boring and informationless, at this point, unless something huge pops up, we won't advance and we'l only create discussion. Someone hammer, please.

[SGRaaize]

We'l only create confusion* Derp

[SGRaaize]

SGR- I don't care for SGR 3 people he wants to vote. All 3 had stated a issue with him. The worst one is LL. Why wasn't OGML on the list? Why do you think OGML is a townie that is not trying hard, rather then scum making a crap case? What reason did you find was valid against OGML? Why do you think there is enough info for the day to end?

1) You don't think Ani and Ghostlin are scum?
2) I have been changed my mind by the way OGML has acted under suspicions, and also the arguments used against him
3) There is enough info for the day to end because we have been moving at a snail's pace since we started a lynch on OGML

[SGRaaize]

werewolf: User that wasn't active and tried to pretend being active by placing a vote here and there. I think he's Town, Scum don't generally act that way when they're inactive.

Magna: Happy birthday. Town, has valid and logic points. I wanna say Scum though, cause he said I'm a BunnyLover style player. And I remember being pissed off at BunnyLover at SSBB Mafia.

Llama: Scum, now, before you think "Oh, its because he voted him". I think he's scum for one single reason. Said he'd wagon anyone for wagon reasons and votes me because I'm the biggest wagon. Proceeds to try to nullify the Ari wagon by saying he doesn't think he's scum. Ari is the most obvious scum of them all. More obvious than OGML and far more obvious than Ghostlin.

Wrath: Town, I think his points are logic and I haven't seen any reason for him to be seen as scum, aside from your far-fetched arguments at the beginning of the day.

Agar: Oooooooh boy... On one hand, he votes every person I think should be voted and is scummy... On the other, he was pretty weird with the Bullshit Semantics argument. Overall, though, I think he's Town.

---

Meanwhile, I can see this day is still gonna take 9 more IRL days. So, whatever. I give up, this is gonna be a boring D1, but I'l manage.

[SGRaaize]

Not surprised, he has been watching this thread more than half of the players.

[SGRaaize]

I got it on the "Users browsing this forum". I saw you a lot of times there

[SGRaaize]

/Brofist LynchMePlz

Welcome aboard

[SGRaaize]

Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

[SGRaaize]

Ooooh, I see. I thought it was about threads, not categories.

[SGRaaize]

Wow, alright, alright.
I know I've been adressed somwhere around here and good old Nexus suspected me.
Its getting confusing now, but basically, Nexus seems scum. I'l do a reread and a proper examination of the past few days tomorrow. Cause I gotta study today for something pretty big.

With that said, mfw we move yet again to another BW.
mfw I have no face.

[SGRaaize]

Same as above

[SGRaaize]

Once again, I'm here.
Tomorrow, I'l talk

[SGRaaize]

I keep going back and forth on Ghost when I read him. Your case makes me want to step back and re-evaluate everything all over again.

Dude, are you serious? Llama made legitimate points (I tried to make but wasn't as sucessful), Ghostlin is OBVIOUS SCUM

I've done this as town, in Mafia in Mendo. It might not have anything to do with your alignment, but I see no point in analyzing who is browsing the thread as scum. Surely that can be faked, but I liked your tone in response to that. LMP was really shocked at you saying that, and with good reason. I'd have been shocked too!

Honestly, I don't see anything towny or scummy about it, I don't think you're scum for that, but that was a pretty weird comment.

Why do you believe that a short day is better than a long day? Obviously people didn't believe in an OGML lynch, because it got derailed quite quickly. Scumhunt more maybe?

Finally:

vote: SGR

If you look back since my post saying "We should advance" until this post now, you'l see we haven't made any progress at all. Quite frankly, we stand in the same place. And I'm wondering if we can finally lynch Ghostlin.

I've made two large posts catching up to the game with MOUNTAINS of evidence why Ghostlin is scum. If that doesn't get him lynched, then I don't know what the fuck would. Seriously, did you people read that shit at all?

Plus, I also made a colossal post on my reasoning against Ghostlin.

No one wants to lynch Ghostlin because people want to milk out this day, its ridiculous

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

This is actually a good comment aimed at Nexus.

What was the purpose of this post?

This is giving me the same vibes that were given to me when Locke asked Wrath on why he needed to give a schedule.
You guys really love to suspect Wrath, don't you?

/picks up prod.

Guys, I'm not doing my 100% best with both games of the Larges I'm in, I'm have trouble catching up, and well, this isn't as fun as I'd thought it'd be.

That's my fault, no one elses, I didn't think the larges would be so problematic and I am sorry to inconvience anyone for it. I'd like to requst replacement, please.

Oh man, that's so BS

OK, I've been completely unable to understand wtf is going on.

Replace plz?

Meh, to be fair, this one is a little different, I don't think animorpherv1 is that scummy and I can buy him voting me because I'm an easy target and he just has no idea what was going on

I'm going thru and rereading the whole game from the start. I have many notes but this one thing jumped out at the most and I want an explanation.

I will wagon for wagon sake. Any of the WC-SGR-Ani triangle of chaos getting a wagon on them will be good for reads on all of them, and im pretty sure SGR is vote leader.

unvote
Vote SGR

Very next post:

Can someone actually give me a concise ani case right now? As much as I think he is great policy lynch bait, I really cant find much there that justifies a lynch of him.

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Yep, this is a great point, and one I bought up before on my #58

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Beacuse between those two posts he had gone from zero to six serious votes for reasons that obviously were not wagon for the sake of wagon since there wasnt a wagon there to start. That ment it had to be serious, and I saw no reason that there could be a serious wagon on him, so I tried to force one out, and it more or less reaffirmed my thoughts on him.

Could one of the GG/Sea voters remove them for LMP now? Not sure how anyone can argue that one of them is more town then LMP is.

This is so BS it hurts my head

7. 00iCon Rep. Ghostlin

Apologies to 00iCon, but this really should be our lynch for today. His early play is filled with Wiki-buzzwords and really shallow & misleading "analysis". He's done a bunch of "gotcha"-scumhunting, which I strongly associate with newb-scum. The timing and reasoning of his votes are also awful, but I think others already covered that.
Strong Scum Read

8. SGRaaize

WTF is up with that "ATATATA" stuff? I don't agree with any of his reads, but I'm not getting consistently strong scum-motivated reasoning behind his actions. That said, I'm not thrilled with his backpedal on Ythill. Also he has a tendency to go out of his way to over-respond to every slightest accusation in order to try to re-write history.
Mild Scum Read

You think me and Ghostlin are partners?

@WC - Why is OGML scum?
Same question to Apoc and SGR

Honestly? I don't remember, but I remember seeing good points on him in arguments from another players. Plus, the fact he started going all out on me, but as soon as he started getting heat, hiding behind Mardi Gras and then lurking a lot more than before. I think that's a sign of scummyness

oh hey look, MoI flipped scum in aSoS.
The only time chesskid was "trolling" MoI by calling everything he did scum.

*gasp*
Can it be, that CK can read MoI really easily?

METAMETAMETAMETAMETAMETA

Ythill, I kind of have to agree with the others. Early wagons for wagon sake may be helpful. Particularly when we're low on information and it looks like, just maybe one of those people may be lynched.
However, the moment we've found some decent wagons, IMHO Ghostlin and OGML both fit this category, jumping off them to go and deliberately wagon somebody else to "see what shakes loose" isn't as interesting. That's why I didn't follow you. I found enough suspects for my Day 1 and I don't think declaring "I might come back to this lynch but first I'll go and place fake pressure on somebody else" is going to provide useful information.
I don't think you're scum for it. I don't think others think you're scum for it. But thats why I didn't follow you.

Did anybody explicitly say that Saint = Furc? I saw people mentioning Furc, but I see people in other games mentioning Fate and other notables when they're not in the game, often taking their name in vain.

Also, I want to not answer Furc, because there's no point. But I'll do it this once more.
Furc, I don't see how anything in my answer to you is me appealing to the town rather than answering you. I've also seen your ability with the English language, and it's incredibly lacking. This is not a slight, it's probably not your first language and having two is better than me, as I only know English. Still, please try not to base your reads over your interpretation of my grammar, because your interpretation is wrong. There is nothing in my response to you to imply direction to the town rather than to you.

I agree, let's lynch Ghostlin or whoever substituted him

Unvote

Vote: Whoever Ghostlin substituted

[SGRaaize]

FIX'D

I keep going back and forth on Ghost when I read him. Your case makes me want to step back and re-evaluate everything all over again.

Dude, are you serious? Llama made legitimate points (I tried to make but wasn't as sucessful), Ghostlin is OBVIOUS SCUM

I've done this as town, in Mafia in Mendo. It might not have anything to do with your alignment, but I see no point in analyzing who is browsing the thread as scum. Surely that can be faked, but I liked your tone in response to that. LMP was really shocked at you saying that, and with good reason. I'd have been shocked too!

Honestly, I don't see anything towny or scummy about it, I don't think you're scum for that, but that was a pretty weird comment.

Why do you believe that a short day is better than a long day? Obviously people didn't believe in an OGML lynch, because it got derailed quite quickly. Scumhunt more maybe?

Finally:

vote: SGR

If you look back since my post saying "We should advance" until this post now, you'l see we haven't made any progress at all. Quite frankly, we stand in the same place. And I'm wondering if we can finally lynch Ghostlin.

I've made two large posts catching up to the game with MOUNTAINS of evidence why Ghostlin is scum. If that doesn't get him lynched, then I don't know what the fuck would. Seriously, did you people read that shit at all?

Plus, I also made a colossal post on my reasoning against Ghostlin.

No one wants to lynch Ghostlin because people want to milk out this day, its ridiculous

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

This is actually a good comment aimed at Nexus.

What was the purpose of this post?

This is giving me the same vibes that were given to me when Locke asked Wrath on why he needed to give a schedule.
You guys really love to suspect Wrath, don't you?

/picks up prod.

Guys, I'm not doing my 100% best with both games of the Larges I'm in, I'm have trouble catching up, and well, this isn't as fun as I'd thought it'd be.

That's my fault, no one elses, I didn't think the larges would be so problematic and I am sorry to inconvience anyone for it. I'd like to requst replacement, please.

Oh man, that's so BS

OK, I've been completely unable to understand wtf is going on.

Replace plz?

Meh, to be fair, this one is a little different, I don't think animorpherv1 is that scummy and I can buy him voting me because I'm an easy target and he just has no idea what was going on

I'm going thru and rereading the whole game from the start. I have many notes but this one thing jumped out at the most and I want an explanation.

I will wagon for wagon sake. Any of the WC-SGR-Ani triangle of chaos getting a wagon on them will be good for reads on all of them, and im pretty sure SGR is vote leader.

unvote
Vote SGR

Very next post:

Can someone actually give me a concise ani case right now? As much as I think he is great policy lynch bait, I really cant find much there that justifies a lynch of him.

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Yep, this is a great point, and one I bought up before on my #58

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Beacuse between those two posts he had gone from zero to six serious votes for reasons that obviously were not wagon for the sake of wagon since there wasnt a wagon there to start. That ment it had to be serious, and I saw no reason that there could be a serious wagon on him, so I tried to force one out, and it more or less reaffirmed my thoughts on him.

Could one of the GG/Sea voters remove them for LMP now? Not sure how anyone can argue that one of them is more town then LMP is.

This is so BS it hurts my head

7. 00iCon Rep. Ghostlin

Apologies to 00iCon, but this really should be our lynch for today. His early play is filled with Wiki-buzzwords and really shallow & misleading "analysis". He's done a bunch of "gotcha"-scumhunting, which I strongly associate with newb-scum. The timing and reasoning of his votes are also awful, but I think others already covered that.
Strong Scum Read

8. SGRaaize

WTF is up with that "ATATATA" stuff? I don't agree with any of his reads, but I'm not getting consistently strong scum-motivated reasoning behind his actions. That said, I'm not thrilled with his backpedal on Ythill. Also he has a tendency to go out of his way to over-respond to every slightest accusation in order to try to re-write history.
Mild Scum Read

You think me and Ghostlin are partners?

@WC - Why is OGML scum?
Same question to Apoc and SGR

Honestly? I don't remember, but I remember seeing good points on him in arguments from another players. Plus, the fact he started going all out on me, but as soon as he started getting heat, hiding behind Mardi Gras and then lurking a lot more than before. I think that's a sign of scummyness

oh hey look, MoI flipped scum in aSoS.
The only time chesskid was "trolling" MoI by calling everything he did scum.

*gasp*
Can it be, that CK can read MoI really easily?

METAMETAMETAMETAMETAMETA

Ythill, I kind of have to agree with the others. Early wagons for wagon sake may be helpful. Particularly when we're low on information and it looks like, just maybe one of those people may be lynched.
However, the moment we've found some decent wagons, IMHO Ghostlin and OGML both fit this category, jumping off them to go and deliberately wagon somebody else to "see what shakes loose" isn't as interesting. That's why I didn't follow you. I found enough suspects for my Day 1 and I don't think declaring "I might come back to this lynch but first I'll go and place fake pressure on somebody else" is going to provide useful information.
I don't think you're scum for it. I don't think others think you're scum for it. But thats why I didn't follow you.

Did anybody explicitly say that Saint = Furc? I saw people mentioning Furc, but I see people in other games mentioning Fate and other notables when they're not in the game, often taking their name in vain.

Also, I want to not answer Furc, because there's no point. But I'll do it this once more.
Furc, I don't see how anything in my answer to you is me appealing to the town rather than answering you. I've also seen your ability with the English language, and it's incredibly lacking. This is not a slight, it's probably not your first language and having two is better than me, as I only know English. Still, please try not to base your reads over your interpretation of my grammar, because your interpretation is wrong. There is nothing in my response to you to imply direction to the town rather than to you.

[/quote]

I agree, let's lynch Ghostlin or whoever substituted him

Unvote

Vote: Whoever Ghostlin substituted

[SGRaaize]

Now... it doesn't matter.
Because Ghostlin... is already dead

http://i.animecrazy.net/ken11.jpg

[SGRaaize]

DAILY EXAMINATION

Let's start with our Mafioso.

#0 - Says he wants to be revived, was a Town-Tell to me, Elects himself, Llama and Seacore, no way would he elect 2 of his buddies along with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he elected one along with him. Voted WrathChild under a BS "Scumtell". I didn't think this made him scum, but I knew at the time it was Bullshit.

#1 - Has a nice discussion with Llama, wasn't trying to distance himself from him, although he hid his talk with Llama inside a post with 3 more conversations, but he always has various conversations going at once in one post so I may be overthinking it. You can tell from this post that Ghost and Wrath are most likely not his partner. Not so sure about Llama and Far.

#2 - Asks for people to pile on Wrath, finds LL scummy for what I assume is him questioning Wrath saying his schedule, gives me a Townie Brownie, buddying up with me because I knew he was saying BS? Or just condescendingly giving me a small brownie for not suspecting him? I assume the later, considering I would probably not suspect him in a lifetime.

#3 - Gives more BS reasoning on Wrath being scum. I am 60% sure Wrath isn't buddies with Wrath. If he's scum, he's probably in another team. Makes a good argument against Ghost that was very logical, regardless of the allignments of both users.

#4 - Another Bullshit reasoning on Wrath, I'l say it again: This is not bussing.

#5 - Asks for a Bandwagon, if not Wraith, then someone. Kinda logic. I agree with him.

#6 - Votes me when a big BW is building on me while saying I'm his townread, I also found this weird, but again, probably because he gave me a Townie Brownie, didn't think much of it.

#7 - Says he might be interested in LL, argues more about BW's

#8 - Asks for a vote on ani

#9 - Acts kinda weird with OGML, questioning him, I can't help but think Ythill is not being nearly oppurtunistic enough against OGML at this point, this would be a great BW to start, yet only later did he start thinking about him. And I think he was one of the first to get out of that BW. Will confirm this later.

#10 - Comments on L-3.

#11 - Thinks Farside is town, I agree.

#12 - Another nice interaction with OGML, votes animorpherv.

#13 - Comments on quote tags.

#14 - Puts me, Seacore, Llama and Farside under town, I think he buddied up with Seacore, gave a honest opinion on farside as to look Townier, not sure about Llama, another reason to be curious on him. This interaction with OGML is also weird, but it makes me think he ain't buddies with OGML because he's not distancing himself and actually going straight to him.

#15 - Gives good reasoning on why he thinks Apok is scum.

#16 - Good logic against Ghost.

#17 - Good logic.

#18 - For the first time, talks directly with Llama, talking about Ghostlin, null. Says he had no intention of letting me go past L-2, I wonder... Probably true, it'd be suspicious if he let me die after he said I was Towny.

#19 - Thinks about Wrath again.

#20 - Very curious answer to Wrath fearing Ythill, I am now 99% sure Wrath is not buddies with Ythill.

#21 - Answers to LL's suspicion of me, drops a small bomb in case he wants to lynch me anytime soon.

#22 - Votes Ghostlin, nothing wrong.

#23 - Pressures Wrath

#24 - Another curious answer to Wrath fearing him.

#25 - Says Ani is scummier than Ghost, I didn't think Ani was THAT weird at this point, plus, Ythill never gave good arguments on why Ani is scummier than Ghostlin (then again, he was never asked) and gave great arguments against Ghostlin, I can't help but wonder if he's leaving a small FOS on his Mafbuddy to look townier if he's lynched sometime later.

#26 - Now this is a very interesting thing even I would have probably seen if I examinated. Ythill suspects LL based on the fact that he suspected Wrath on scheduling, but now agrees with him. This also makes me curious about LL, plus, before, Ythill put LL under "People of Interest". Heh.

#27 - Interacts with Llama, but keeps saying he's honorary Town.

#28 - Attacks Ghostlin personally.

#29 - Apologizes for the point above. Is helpful.

#30 - Talks to Saint and asks him to vote someone else. Might be partners.

#31 - Says he doesn't explain his town-tells, heh. Turns to OGML, even though the last time they talked, he said he was a weird fellow that also gave towntells. This makes me suspect OGML.

#32 - Derp

#33 - Should have also noticed that Ythill didn't mind me voting to free myself from a lynch but minded Ghostlin doing the same.

#34 - This post makes me believe Gaggle is Town or at least not partners with Ythill, in the way he talked with him about his versus with farside.

#35 - Makes me think about sacrificing myself to save him, another way to give a nice Townread.

#36 - Goes back to Ghostlin quickly, this is making me see OGML scummier and scummier.

#37 - Another Town-read on him because of this post, and makes me think GG is Town again.

#38 - Heh, curious interaction between MoI here, where MoI asks Ythill how he knows this setup favours Town, he gives BS answers, another thing I should have noticed.

#39 - Back to OGML, heh...

#40 - Explains why he doesn't want to kill Llama.

#41 - Says that nobody should hammer yet, even though they are SO CLOSE FROM A LYNCH ON OGML. Proceeds to be the first to get out of the BW and vote AGar. Was the one saying "L-3" before. Its decided, I wanna vote OGML right now.

Vote: OGML or whoever is substituting him

#42 - Good interactions with far.

#43 - Congratulates LL on naming scumtells on Nexus. Interesting.

#44 - And gives another scumtell from Nexus. Makes me think...

#45 - Goes against Saint, has a big discussion with MoI that is mostly pointless, starts crictizing the OGML bandwagon, goes to Nexus.

#46 - Says he's not sure about Magna, neither am I.

#47 - Gets owned by MoI, answers with BS.

#48 - Made a mistake.

#49 - Tries to get town-points for having noticed Locke Lamora is Townie before. Another thing that makes me think far isn't partners with Ythill.

#50 - This is a very interesting post, the way YThill acts condescendingly to Saint is very interesting. Plus, says MoI is partners with Saint, doesn't actually try to push on MoI, although he said he has been following big BW's.

#51 - "Saint's town. He's just being dumb" Heh.

#52 - Wants a Wagon on Nexus.

#53 - Doesn't want the OGML wagon, even though he voted it and put it at L-3

#54 - Starts questioning me.

#55 - Keeps arguing with MoI.

#56 - Catches Wrath with a nice logic. But makes me think that Wrath is even less scummy. Although this makes me wonder if there are two different teams. So I wouldn't be surprised if Wrath is a Mafioso in another team.

#57 - Says he suspects Ghostlin more and that Ani is a runner-up, something he didn't say before. I SHOULD HAVE MADE EXAMINATIONS AT THE END OF D1, NOT NOW, EVEN I WOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS.

#58 - Starts crediblizing himself on Wagons and whatever, blabla, boring.

#59 - Derp.

#60 - Another good point against Wraith, goes back to Ghostlin, never mentions OGML AGAIN, nor Locke, nor Llama. Makes a interesting list where he says LL is townie enough to go BS but not skilled, says Saint is skilled enough even though he said he was being dumb. Says Llama is skilled enough but is not being that towny. Etc, a lot of interesting things can be taken from this list, so I suggest everyone to go check it right NOW.

#61 - Wants Seacore, weird.

#62 - Another logical point against Wrath.

#63 - Wants to lynch Wrath

#64 - Says Ghostlin replaced out under pressure, scummy, I SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS, DAMN YOU YTHILL, WHY DID YOU GIVE ME THAT DAMN BROWNIE.

#65 - Gets owned by Magna, no big deal. More good points against Wrath.

#66 - Finally decides to lynch Wrath.

#67 - Rolls eyes at WrathChild, at this point, its all he needed to do to get a lynch on him.

#68 - Was hoping for a Wrath or Ghost lynch today. I know this is bullshit logic, but they way he put Wrath before Ghostlin makes me think again Wrath is not his partner.

#69 - Tries to convince the OGML Wagon to STOP, PLEASE STOP, BAH GAWD!!!

#70 - Says he's sure both Wrath and Ghostlin is scum, I find this curious.

#71 - Interesting point he brings, says everyone has been following his wagons (not necessarily true, but still) and says no one has been following him on Wrath, says he finds that weird. So do I, for that matter.

#72 - More good points against Wrath, bullshit points against Seacore.

#73 - Not much here.

#74 - Argues that he didn't want to lynch Ghostlin because that slot was empty, would probably make me suspect Ghostlin if I didn't know Ghostlin is town.

#75 - Nothing here, move along.

#76 - Says this is a great way to lynch. Gives BS argument.

So, in conclusion:

People I'm fairly positive are Ythill's partners:
OGML

People I think might be Ythill partners:
Llama, Locke, Animorpherv1, Saints.

People I am fairly positive aren't Ythill partners:
Wrath, farside, Seacore, Nexus.

Will do reads on the other users after I get my lazy ass on it.

[SGRaaize]

I think we can all agree that OGML is 300% Scummier now, I'm probably not gonna change my mind on this one.

[SGRaaize]

#35 - Makes me think about sacrificing myself to save him, another way to give a nice Townread.

God seeing this and knowing he scum now. He was probably trying to feel out if you had a PR by asking that question.

Oh, that makes sense too, probably both.

[SGRaaize]

I wonder... Did YThill's death have anything to do with Backstage?

[SGRaaize]

Are you even allowed to tell me that?

[SGRaaize]

We can deal with Llama later, the priority should be OGML or whoever is substituting him

[SGRaaize]

I just wanna say again that Wrath might be scum, but is def. not partners with Ythill

[SGRaaize]

Gurg.

Fuck.

On one hand, I reeeeaaaallly want to go for OGML.
On the other, my brain is telling me Ythill is smarter than that. [/WIFOM]

I don't think that's a good argument, because I don't think Ythill was expecting to be killed before OGML, neither did he think he would be killed so soon as N1

[SGRaaize]

We should sacrifice today to revive vezo. I should be the one sacrificed.

The only problem with that is that we need to lynch someone and then sacrifice someone.
If so, I suggest a Lynch on Llama and a Sacrifice on OhGodMyLife

Change Vote: LLama
Ressurect: Vezo
Sacrifice: OGML

[SGRaaize]

Fate, I suggest you read the game from the beginning to where we are

[SGRaaize]

So, you think we're dealing with a SK here?
Alright.

[SGRaaize]

I lost my page, guess I'll start at 23 >_>b

"People I feel are townie enough to go BS: GG, LMP, SGR, Saint, Seacore, farside, LL.
People I feel are skilled/experienced enough to make the most of it: GG, LMP, Magna, OGML, Saint, Seacore, Llama, AGar, farside.
I crossed out the ones who are not on both lists and bolded the ones who are but I am currently not electing."

Ythill wouldn't vote for a partner to go into the BS, he'd only need himself in there to manipulate everyone. Everyone on the top list is cleared. People on the second list is where he'd place buddies, namely AGar and Magna.

I repeat...
I don't think YThill expected to be dead so soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gave some Townie reads on a partner or two.

[SGRaaize]

If OhGodMyLife is volunteering to be sacrificed then he is scum.

I agree with this, I think OhGodMyLife volunteered himself to be sacrificed because he knew this would give him a town-read and wouldn't actually end with him sacrificed.

@Fate: I disagree completely, I think you are being extreme. I think he was playing the long game, but I'm sure he wanted to make a mistake here or there and help his buddies stay alive. After all, if he never made a mistake, that would be more suspicious if he did a mistake or other, don't you think?

[SGRaaize]

No, no fucking way. You'l never sell me the idea that Wrath is Ythill's buddy, Ythill bussing him as cleanly as that at the beginning of D1 would make him more suspicious, not less.

[SGRaaize]

No seriously guys quit fooling, I'm getting sacrificed today, the confirmed town tracker is way more valuable than me

Yes, because having vezok for a day and never getting any results from him is such a great idea.

Fun fact - If we resurrect someone, it should be a STRONG player nearer to the END of the game so we have a good voice in MYLO/LYLO.
Fun fact - Resurrecting Vezok does none of that for us - he's just going to die the next night. Whoop de fucking doo.

OGML is likely town after thinking about it, with regards to the Ythill flip. Which sucks because he was probably my strongest read in D1.

VOTE: MoI

Seriously, his play D1 wasn't impressive, and I'd rather lynch him than waste our time sacrificing to bring back someone for a whopping day phase.

I don't think he's gonna die the next night, I think he'l be a target of all protective abilities, and I'm sure there is at least one here.

[SGRaaize]

I don't think he's gonna die the next night, I think he'l be a target of all protective abilities, and I'm sure there is at least one here.

I don't.

So, you think Jahudo would make a mechanic that can revive people and basically 100% clear them while not having protectors? Isn't that a little pointless?

[SGRaaize]

The lapses of logic on the Ressurection from Seacore and LL are astounding.

"If we Revive him, he'l just be killed by the next night"
"If we revive him later, he'l be far more important"

Are you kidding me? There are probably protectors still alive at this stage of the game, if a clear Tracker managed to survive in the end-of-the-game situation to give us useful information, then it sure as fuck can survive at this stage, what with more PR's around the place and a possible Watcher or Doctor

So, yeah, simply put, we revive the Tracker today, any objections to this idea have been ridiculous.

[SGRaaize]

The lapses of logic on the Ressurection from Seacore and LL are astounding.

"If we Revive him, he'l just be killed by the next night"
"If we revive him later, he'l be far more important"

Are you kidding me? There are probably protectors still alive at this stage of the game, if a clear Tracker managed to survive in the end-of-the-game situation to give us useful information, then it sure as fuck can survive at this stage, what with more PR's around the place and a possible Watcher or Doctor

So, yeah, simply put, we revive the Tracker today, any objections to this idea have been ridiculous.

[SGRaaize]

I lol'd so fucking hard

SGRaaize: "We should revive the Tracker, its a good idea because there will be doctors and/or watchers on him, so he will be clear"
Everyone else: "No, that's a terrible idea, let's lynch Apoc instead"

*Watcher gets lynched*

Listen to me next time, please

[SGRaaize]

Oh geez, so much stuff happening.
Will update tomorrow, I swear.

[SGRaaize]

Damn... I really didn't want to do this, as it is the third time I do this, but I have to take my prod, because I just can't handle this game ;_; I hate prodding.