American Gods Mafia - Game over

[Kublai Khan]

Hey everyone. I going to start reading. It may take me a day or two to catch up, so if anyone wants to bring me up to speed with important events (claims, dramatic happenings) then I'll be appreciative.

Deadline is 7 days away, yes? So we need to start getting on the same page with things.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay... Just wolfed down the entire game in spurts during the past 24 hours. It'll take a while to digest as I'm much better at analyzing mafia games on the fly instead of old stuff.

But are some gut feelings on everyone. (order and numbers from the Alive list in OP)

1. A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)

Ugh. I really wish they would sign their posts because chesskid3 is a somewhat easier read. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of their reads, but I don't have an established enough meta to know if either are typically accurate with their reads. I'm strongly against them being backstage; mostly because I'm not getting a vibe that either are going to be team players.
Mild Town Read

2. Nexus

I get a town-vibe from his refusal to hammer. Or at worst a null-vibe. He's inexperienced with this site's meta when it comes to hammering. I know plenty of scummers (regardless of alignment) who would come back from V/LA and hammer without thinking twice, then going back to read the game.

That said, his timing and reasoning for not hammering OhGodMyLife strongly binds the two.
Mild Town Read

3. vezokpiraka

I strongly consider vezokpiraka to be a VI. Strangely, I'm getting a townieish vibe from him. He's been clear and consistent (although, as always, underwhelming in amount) with his reads.
Mild Town Read

4. LynchMePls Rep. werewolf555

werewolf555 was scant on info when he did post.

I'm a little pissed at LynchMePls for stealing some of my "replacee thunder". I was totally going to expose Seacore as scummy based on early play (specifically the coaching and fence-sitting) but he beat me to the punch. I also agree with some of his other reads, which I'll get around to.
Medium Town Read

5. MagnaofIllusion Rep. Tasky

Mildest of mild town read from Tasky.

If MagnaofIllusion is scum, then he'll be content to obsfucate his scumtells within massive walls of text. I'm not seeing anything yet, but I admit that my eyes tend to glaze a bit when i see multiple short quote boxes in a post.
Mild Town Read

6. OhGodMyLife

I'm not sold on a lynch of OhGodMyLife. His play is consistent with town-play I've seen from him. I'd like for him to explain his scum reads on farside22, WrathChild, AGar, & Saint when he gets time.
Mild Town Read

7. 00iCon Rep. Ghostlin

Apologies to 00iCon, but this really should be our lynch for today. His early play is filled with Wiki-buzzwords and really shallow & misleading "analysis". He's done a bunch of "gotcha"-scumhunting, which I strongly associate with newb-scum. The timing and reasoning of his votes are also awful, but I think others already covered that.
Strong Scum Read

8. SGRaaize

WTF is up with that "ATATATA" stuff? I don't agree with any of his reads, but I'm not getting consistently strong scum-motivated reasoning behind his actions. That said, I'm not thrilled with his backpedal on Ythill. Also he has a tendency to go out of his way to over-respond to every slightest accusation in order to try to re-write history.
Mild Scum Read

9. Saint

I know this is a furcolow account.. Are you currently hydraing or alting?

That asked.. the play has just been horrible. But there seems to be some sincerety. I think.
Mild Mild Mild Town Read

10. Seacore

I touched on some of my attitude about Seacore earlier. There's other stuff like his Post 405 where I just can't follow the logic.
Moderate Scum Read

11. Apokalyptika

A bit of a wallflower. Has some okay reads, makes an interesting point here or there, but isn't aggressively pursuing anything.
Mild Town Read

12. Ythill

Ythill is town leadering and this game is better for it.
Town Read

13. Llamafluff

This is another read I agree with LynchMePls in his info dump catch up post. LlamaFluff has been pretty underwhelming. He's gotten better, but something is off and I can't put my finger on it. He should keep posting.
Mild Mild Mild Scum Read

15. AGar

He's, uh... looking town and stuff. (Sorry, my brain is breaking down a bit trying to process everything--nothing AGar has done has looked overtly scummy.)
Town Read

16. WrathChild

Panicked and over-whiny about the early pressure on him. I hate people that call themselves an "easy lynch". Seems over-anxious to lynch and get the day ended.
Mild Scum Read

17. farside22

I'm reading farside22 as town mostly because I feel that farside22-scum would have researched chesskid3 a bit before tearing into him. Then again my meta of you is a couple of years old now..
Mild Town Read

18. Locke Lamora

Pointed, focused scum hunting. No problem with his play.
Town Read

[Kublai Khan]

Almost forgot..

unvote
vote: Ghostlin
Unelect (x3)
Elect: Locke Lamora
Elect: farside22
Elect: LynchMePls

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: First Ghostlin is no longer in the game your vote should reflect the slot, who is 00iCon. Second, I've just been frustrated with the transition into this group from my old one. It seems like no matter what I say here I am the VI, but if you go back and read my last game, my reads were pretty solid, but still you are absolutely correct that I need to stop whining about it and I will try my best to do that. If you actually look at the source of the early pressure on me it was very weak and I was just frustrated having to deal with that.

Eh.. Jahudo counted my vote anyways.

I'd discuss site meta with you, but I think it's irrelevant to this game. Perhaps afterwards. However, for the record, I wouldn't call you a VI. VIs are players that are very, very hard to read because of their erratic and unpredictable behavior (either consioucly or uncounciously).

@KK I am hydraing with 1 person on another account, and starting one with a second, both in RC games. Why?
Also, link to where my play "has been horrible"
-thanks

So, in this game you are Furcolow alone, yes?

Your play has been horrible in that you have repeatedly tried to undermine the towniest players (i.e. Ythill & farside22) with weak drive-by "cases". You switched to Nexus, which looked like you're trying to move in early on a Nexus-wagon. When that faltered, you moved back to a OGML vote because that's a pretty safe spot to park your vote.

This game needs flips, since all of these scummy lynch candidates have towntelled.

This. There has also been way too much analysis done with way too little info. I was stunned that there has been Vote Count analysis done on Day freaking 1.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: Have you played with morph before? If so what was your read of his play this game? Yes I'm having you analysis a player you replaced.

No, I've never played a game with animorpherv1 before. I think. I checked my wiki and didn't see his name, but that doesn't preclude him replacing out of a game I've been in.

If I wasn't replacing animorpherv1, I'd be suspicious of him. Half of his posts are him posting a dense, weak case against Wraith, then standing up for it and being belligerent.

Also, he failed to show a why he thought a farside22 lynch would be a good idea. Actually, overall I hate his playstyle because he doesn't really explain any of his positions/reads on anyone.

That's about all I can analyze in 8 posts. So, quid pro quo. Why did you ask me to engage in this exercise?

[Kublai Khan]

@KK (#623): I'd enjoy a meta discussion sometime. Now why is Furc an auto-disregard (seacore agreed with this)?

I never said I would disregard Furcolow/Saint. I hated him after the first game I've played with him, but he seems to have gotten a bit better. I'm trying to get a better read on him (to make him less of a VI to me), so knowing if he was a hydra or not helps me.

Seacore is the one who said he would disregard Furcolow. But that's a null-tell.

[Kublai Khan]

KK: How did you read the game? Did you read from the start or iso players? Why is there so little info in your catch up post?
Do you have links to your meta of OMGL playing this way before?

Okay... Just wolfed down the entire game in spurts during the past 24 hours. It'll take a while to digest as I'm much better at analyzing mafia games on the fly instead of old stuff.

But are some gut feelings on everyone. (order and numbers from the Alive list in OP)

To clarify. I both read the entire game from start to finish, then ISOed people to help write that reads-post and check double-check other stuff.

I've played one game (that I can recall) with OhGodMyLife (url=http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=11392]Mini 786[/url]). He started very similarly by ignoring everything else to vote a hunch then look for who is chainsaw defending. Seems to be his MO. He was town in that game, but I admit I don't have any idea if he does the same thing as scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay..

Confused with the cryptic backstage anti-LlamaFluff stuff.

I haven't re-read Day 1 yet, but I did read SGRaaize's summary of Ythill's actions and agree that OhGodMyLife is a strong contender for being Ythill's partner.

Will comment more & vote after re-read. Which I will probably get done early tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh.. First Ythill was scum, now Fate is. We're just not catching a breaking in this game.

If OhGodMyLife is volunteering to be sacrificed then he is scum. I'm in favor of sacrificing him to bring back vezokpiraka. If we do the ressurection gimmick, then vezokpiraka won't join us until the start of Day 3, which means we wouldn't be able to get a tracker result until Day 4 (unless he has a pre-mortem result from Night 1).

Elect Farside22, Elect LynchMePls, Elect Kublai Khan

Vote: Fate

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. All we need is for MagnaofIllusion to show up and combine with A Gaggle of Geese, Fate, & a scrambling/flailing OhGodMyLife and we'll double the number of posts so far in this game.

[Kublai Khan]

hmmm didn't like that post from kublai one bit

What part?

[Kublai Khan]

KK thats who was missing. He lost his town read with that last derp vote on me.

Ain't a derp vote, Fate.

You have absolutely no basis to call me town based on a single write-up post. And you're reacting guiltily to my vote.

[Kublai Khan]

The basis WAS your catch-up post, was it devoid of content? Stances? Are yOU SCUM? Why in the fuck would you disagree with a town read on you?

Because a catch-up is a null activity. I'm not disagreeing that you think I'm town. I just read it as more of a buddying attempt.

"reacting guiltily" LOL. I thought you were a better player than this.

You laughed it off, then after two other people say it's scummy, you post in agreement with them. I didn't care for your hesitation.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: You know Fate just claimed last page to be the one to vig Ythill.

C'mon farside22, which scenario sounds most likely:

A) Town-VigFate targets and kills Ythill because she wants town-leadership

B) Scum-Fate looking to either out the vig or laugh at the frustrated silent SK

C) Town-Fate claiming crap repeatedly.

EBWOP: Fate is denying-ish the claim, but justifies A anyways.

kublai, please point out what part of the things I'm doing you're defining as "scrambling/flailing"

Volunteering to be sacrificed.
Sheeping Fate. (Nexus was a "torn on" read for you yesterday)

[Kublai Khan]

If he REALLY thinks I'm scum and he's town, he needs to shutup, Elect me, and help me bus this waste of a player Apoka

Heh. No. Though I'll re-read Apokalyptika to see if the bus-wagon has any merit.

[Kublai Khan]

Actually, I'd like to read MagnaofIllusion's opinion of Nexus/Fate as well.

Re: the Ressurect/Sacrifice question..

I'm not seeing the benefit of using up one of our two ressurections right away. Vezokpiraka's one tracking result isn't super beneficial unless we've already done a mass claim and she can expose a liar. Plus she's not a terrible active or good scum-hunter. She's be a confirmed townie... but so what?

I think we need to hold off using the mechanic for at least another day to see if there's a better role/player to bring back.

@WrathChild - Why is it obvious that Fate should be backstage?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay..

What's the case on MagnaofIllusion? (Link or repeat it)

And how is he more scummy than OhGodMyLife?

Vote: OhGodMyLife

[Kublai Khan]

Dammit farside22..

Some of us don't continue to play this game in the backstage and instead get caught up in their other games during the night phases.

*sheepishly goes back and re-reads stuffs*

[Kublai Khan]

unvote: OhGodMyLife
vote: MagnaofIllusion

[Kublai Khan]

My point is that I forgot about how yesterday ended.

[Kublai Khan]

This explain back stage stuff is bullshit.

SERIOUSLY.

I don't have any grasp of what's going on with this game. And everyone is just "hush-hush... backstage reasons... secret... vote me backstage...".

You know what. Fuck it. I'm protesting until I feel differently.

un-everything

It sounds like you backstagers are clearing each other which is great, but you haven't cleared everyone that's been voted backstage and it's possible that some bullshitting is going on. Right now it sounds like too many people are trying to rush the day, so first I'd like to hear from MagnaofIllusion before making any votes/sacrifices/ressurection/elections.

How about we play Mafia and not Big Brother, huh?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, that post was seriously scummy. Rush the day? CMON KK.

MagnaofIllusion is 4/7. L-3.

If we're going to dance, let's slow this foxtrot down to a waltz.

[Kublai Khan]

Today was another plan to vote for Fate and have in go nuts and fake that we had information.

What the hell is the point of that plan? How would you parse the reactions?

Ok, we still have not figured out how to use the Resurrect mechanic yet. You vote for a person to resurrect THEN you vote who to be sacrificed.

Sacrifice: MoI

WTF?

Unlike Agar I feel KK's FUCK BACKSTAGE thing seems faked. Insincere.

...?
WTF would be my gain from faking it?

What has backstage done to stop your scumhunting?

Are you shitting me? Do I really have to quote mine this game and come up with dozens of "We'll sort that out BS" and "X is town for backstage reasons" posts?

Mod: Prod MagnaofIllusion

This game is essentially stalling until he posts.

[Kublai Khan]

I’ll keep this catch-up post shorter than normal because frankly I don’t see me not being lynched today given that the ‘Powers That Be’ have decided backstage that I’m scum.

Actually, it was your hammer that did that..
Additionally, the entirety of the rest of your catch-up post is horrible. I'm willing to hammer.

I'm pretty sure the mafia are the ones trying to sacrifice me. They probably rolecopped me.

agreed w/ rolecop part.

What...? I mean.. he.. uh.. what/how/why?

I'm starting to strongly agree with A Gaggle of Geese's assertion that this is strangely becoming TOO MANY INVESTIGATION ROLES Mafia. On one hand, it does make sense given the ressurection gimmick. Many different investigation roles give the town a headache in choosing who to bring back for potentional info.

Now, I ISO'd Apokalyptika. The only watcher-breadcrumb that I could see was this:

I'm a bit surprised to see that it came from LMP, since I've had a generally town read on him. Still, IGMEOY.

Which looks like she's clearing LynchMePls.

We've now got several people (4 by my count) soft-claiming information gathering roles. Of these, I'm pretty sure that MagnaofIllusion is probably lying. Given that sacrificed players may not be ressurected, I'm still in favor of holding off ressurection another day and/or sacrificing players that are requesting it for gambit purposes (OhGodMyLife).

[Kublai Khan]

But as I declared, I'm looking to gaggle for direction.

Ugh.. Dark times.

Again, this game is waiting on MagnaofIllusion. This time he needs to claim because he's up against the wall and soft-claiming an info role.

In the meanwhile,

Elect LlamaFluff
Elect Seacore
Elect Kublai Khan

I'm still not sold on the need to resurrect today. We only have 2 ressurections and a Watcher with 2 results is not a prime candidate for ressurection. Especially considering that any ressurected power role is perfect fodder from a scum-kill.

I'd much rather hold off ressurecting until tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Bringing Apoc back is worth using the first sacrafice though.

Why?

[Kublai Khan]

Bringing Apoc back is worth using the first sacrafice though.

Why?

Why not? Seriously how long do you want to wait to bring back players that are PR's?

I'm going to reread a few people, but anyone that pushes a lynch without ressurecting the town PR should be lynched instead.

unsacrifice
sacrifice: KK

I don't like this hold off bullshit till X day without a good valid reason right now.

The reason is: what the hell are we gaining by burning up one of our ressurections and bringing back a Day 2 lynch watcher? We get 1 watcher result? Of which, I've shown that she probably used to watch LynchMePls and got no result?

No, your job (that goes to farside22 and everyone else) is to convince me that it's worth it.

Also, your job is to explain why you're sacrificing/lynching me for asking a frigging question? And I don't like Day 3 sheep, Saint. I don't like them at all.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: How many scum do you think is in this set up? And do you believe there is a second killing group?

No idea. Dunno about second group. Ythill's death points towards a SK existing.

Notice I total believe bringing back a town PR helps the town. I'm not seeing a reason it doesn't help come from KK's post. People are like, oh we should wait till more people die look hella scummy as it means more people die and less town info.

See, that just sounds like generic town platitudes. "Power roles = good!" is a shallow-minded theory. How long of a life do you think a confirmed town power role is going to have? We need to ressurect based on what knowledge we'll gain instead of what knowledge we could gain.

How do you know who was watched that day and why does it matter? Also did you notice or did it escape your attention there was one less kill last night then the night before?

Hooooly crap. For someone who combed my posts looking for inconsistencies (because we all know that pro-town players are never inconsistent), you missed where I posted what I thought was Apokalyptika's breadcrumb:

Now, I ISO'd Apokalyptika. The only watcher-breadcrumb that I could see was this:

I'm a bit surprised to see that it came from LMP, since I've had a generally town read on him. Still, IGMEOY.

Which looks like she's clearing LynchMePls.

Second, I did notice that there was 1 less kill last night. What of it? No killing role died, so I have no idea why there isn't a second kill. Why don't you tell me your insight into that particular conundrum?

--

MagnaofIllusion & Saint's claims are.. interesting and bizarre. Between the two, MagnaofIllusion's makes more sense. But I want a full claim from Saint.

[Kublai Khan]

Way to dodge a question KK. I asked you when do you plan on doing a rez and why continue waiting another day? What do you think it will matter?
Also the fact there wasn't a second kill means either a doctor, rb or bp (typically) so how do you know that who ever comes back won't be saved by someone?

I'm not trying to dodge it. I'm answering that the inverse is worse. I've got a feeling that there are better roles to ressurect that will have more info than Apokalyptika. If nobody important dies today/tonight, then we can still revive her and we'll have another revive for later.

I'm guessing on low life-saving rolepowers giving the reviving mechanism. I may be playing a dangerous game of mod-out-guessing, but if I were designing this game, that's what I'd do.

[Kublai Khan]

Prod dodge. I'll have a good post up later today.

[Kublai Khan]

A Gaggle of Geese is reading town.

@AGar - What is your OhGodMyLife town-read based on?

LynchMePls is playing very obtuse in his run at WrathChild. Has not made any substantially good posts on Day 3 at all.

OhGodMyLife has been keeping very under the rader on Day 3 as well. Seems to be actively trying to hide behind the wallpaper.

SGRaaize - "I'll get to this game soon, I swear" (for 8 days now)

LlamaFluff - Why is OhGodMyLife a bad lynch for today?

Why is Locke Lamora voting for MagnaofIllusion?

vote: OhGodMyLife
Unelect: Seacore

[Kublai Khan]

Eh... What's the slam-dunk case against MagnaofIllusion again?

Someone link or quote me. I might be willing to compromise.

[Kublai Khan]

Just in case anyone is going to get any ideas here, I'm just making a point. Saint claiming something does NOT make it true. The fact that MoI just swallowed it up made him confirmed scum in my eyes. Hell Saint already claimed six different things today, why are we supposed to believe that he's SK and not lying scum?

....

Because Saint is already sacrificed. And he doesn't gain/benefit anything from claiming SK?

Why are you focused on what Saint is saying? Is your case on MagnaofIllusion dependent on Saint?

[Kublai Khan]

We could, of course, take the smartest course of action.

Lynch confirmed anti-town player Saint. That reduces our night-kills to 1.

Day 4 + 11 players + 2 (1 lynch + 1 NK) = plenty of opportunity to use our 2 revival/sacrifices better.

In fact...

Vote: Saint

[Kublai Khan]

Timeline..

Start of Game: March 2nd, 2011

Post by chesskid3 in the Mafia Discussion forum about a prime number vig role: April 1st, 2011
Link

Seacore claiming to be a prime-number commuter: April 6, 2011

I'm Sam Black Crow, I'm Human, I'm one of my favourite characters in the book, oh, and I'm a Commuter. I commute on prime numbered nights, which I thought was a pretty cool little twist given the theme.

unvote
Vote: Seacore

[Kublai Khan]

hmmmmm not sure about Seacores claim. KK went out of his way to disprove it, but doesn't have a reason so far stated in game why he thinks Seacore is scum.

Went out of my way... ? Farside22, really? When I read the prime number deal, I remember that I read something about it a couple of days ago. I did a search and found it.

I'd call it "going out of my way" if I went and researched another player's meta at a non-critical part of the game.

You're right that I didn't have a strong negative opinion of Seacore. But I don't believe in coincidences. Seacore read about a mechanic in the MD forum, then used it as part of his fakeclaim.

[Kublai Khan]

Zorblag (math whiz) explains that 1 isn't a prime number in the link I provided earlier.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, while you're here, will you respond to me, rather than just to Farside?

Am I stupid and am borrowing from a scum buddy's idea?
Is my scum buddy stupid and posting an idea based on my (potentially fake) claim?
Or am I stupid and am borrowing from a town player's idea?

Because if I'm lying, somebody is being stupid.

I was waiting for A Gaggle of Geese's reaction. Doesn't anyone find it interesting that he didn't comment on it at all and he's reacting to it by voting me?

I'm leaning towards 2 right now. chesskid3 is impulsive enough to be enamoured with a mechanic and blurt it out at an inappropriate time.

I think we should all claim whether or not we are "Old Gods" starting with Kublai.

....and then OhGodMyLife votes for me without even letting me reply.

Seriously? farside22 thinks that OhGodMyLife is more town than me? With posts like this?

farside22 claims to have taken off the Fate-blinders, but is refusing to recognize that OhGodMyLife has gone from "sacrifice me!" when things looked bad after Ythill scum-flipped to pushing for my lynch over his. And everyone is voting for me why? Because farside22 said so? Her whole case on me based on the idea that I'm scum because I'm not consistently keeping the same reads (aka I'm changing my mind as the game evolves).

How about people wake the fuck up and realize that changing reads isn't scummy, but changing behavior is?

[Kublai Khan]

I don't have 100% confidence in farside22's ability to lead town correctly. And I see that the plan relies on SECRET BACKSTAGE SHENANIGANS (again).

[Kublai Khan]

Vanilla Town, by the way. Not an Old God.

What are you if not an Old God?

[Kublai Khan]

Vanilla Town, by the way. Not an Old God.

What are you if not an Old God?

^^^QFEMPHASIS

Actually, not as important a question, really. He doesn't need to answer it.

I'm guessing he's a folk hero. The role-type listed in the sample PM.

I really don't know what the difference between folk heros and Old Gods are. OhGodMyLife is a VT, but there's been some Old God VT as well. So there's likely a role (or two) that has a related flavor mechanic. (i.e. can only target/affect either folk heroes or Old Gods.)

I suggest everyone else keep quiet about what they are. Even when claiming.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm a Spirit of the Old World.

Watch kublai try to quash the massclaiming of something that would be inconvenient for scum to have to make up but easy for town to just go read out of their role PM.

All townpeople that have died have flipped "Old Gods". The townie sample PM that Jahudo provided says "Folk Hero". You've now claimed something different.

1) How the fuck would massclaiming what "category" we are help/hinder scum?
2) Where is the inconvinience from scum to pick one of

two

three things at random and claim it?
3) When have you ever seen townies categorized in different ways for no game-reason whatsoever?

Wasn't Kublai also the one arguing against using our resurrects on power roles? He's pretty much the voice of dissent on doing things that would help the town.

Oh for fuck's sake.. Is that the best you can offer the game? Something completely removed from the truth? I think we're better off with you grunting every three days to prod-dodge.

It's possible that OhGodMyLife-scum is inventing a different townie category for WIFOM reasons, but I'm not willing to jump on that train. I know I'm not scum, and farside22 is apparently going to verify Seacore. I think farside22 is more scummy than town, but the rest of the town is too closed-minded to want to hear it.

I need to start looking elsewhere, so I mind as well go to left field and bring up someone that's been bothering me lately.

Vote: Locke Lamora

Reasons:

1) Zero interaction with Ythill except to somewhat chainsaw defend him against SGRaaize.
2) Makes good solid points, back them up with a vote, and then... nothing. No follow up. No bandwagon-leading. He parks his vote on budding wagons, then waits to see if a bandwagon forms around him.
3) Posts unprompted agreements.
4) Strong tendency to IIOA.
5) Wallflowering.

Discussion?

[Kublai Khan]

What changed between this ^ and below:

A lot of things. Mostly time/reflection. Notice I wrote up the delay warning as to how long it takes for a power role to be useful again. I mulled it over in my head and realized that bringing back power roles to have them as confirmed town power roles is not the right strategy for the special mechanic of this game.

The right strategy to to ressurect dead power roles that haven't breadcrumbed their results (and/or just to have confirmed townies towards the end of the game).

Which is why I think bringing back vezokpiraka or Apokalyptika are bad moves.

KK also never once state any suspicion on Seacore, but with the claim and finding a talk about it elsewhere on MS votes for him.
This seems very opportunistic and lazy. I E: Can't find anything in game but looked through MS instead. Why?

Didn't I already answer this? Yes, yes I did. I answered you the last time you asked me about it.

Just because you have a shitty memory, it doesn't mean that I do too. I read chesskid3's post in Mafia Discussion a few days before Seacore claimed it. It stuck in my memory because the prime number thing is an interesting limitation on a role that I had not seen or thought of before. It's not the boring old Even/Odd thing and it rewards a player for playing well with protection in later nights. It's not predicable, but it is logical. It struck me as an original, cool idea. Plus the discussion about whether 1 was a prime number made me think about it a little while, which is why it made more of an impression on me then any other random post I've read.

Then Seacore posts that he has the exact same limitation mechanic on his role. That's a bad coincidence. That's worthy of a vote regardless of any town-read I had on him previous to the claim.

@MagnaofIllusion - The above is typical of why I've been so frustrated with farside22's play. It's not town. This is twice now that I've caught her asking questions I've already answered. And both times it's immediately after she alledgedly ISO'd me to look for inconsistencies/hypocrasies. She's framing, not scum-hunting.

@KK: what is your view on LMP

AGar's right. He's been heavy lurking. He was a notch below Locke Lamora (who has also been lurking).

----
@LlamaFluff - I'd also be willing to lynch Seacore. There's nothing about farside22's plan to clear Seacore that makes sense.

[Kublai Khan]

vote: Seacore

[Kublai Khan]

Lyncher. I win.

Arrg.

You better just be fucking with Gaggle..

[Kublai Khan]

Let’s examine the wagons, shall we?

Seacore (7) – LynchMePls, Llamafluff, Kublai Khan, OhGodMyLife, Saint, AGar, A Gaggle of Geese
OhGodMyLife (6) – Seacore, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, WrathChild, farside22, ooba

I’m taking yourself, Seacore and OGML off the wagons. You made the choice and the other two obviously were not going to vote anywhere else and were both Town per you.

Seacore – LMP, Llama, KK, Saint, AGar
OGML – Locke, MoI, WC, farside, ooba

So both your Town reads from 1506 (ooba and WC) and your prob Town read (farside) were on OGML. Your prob-Town read had a plan to test Seacore Night 3. Yet you chose to hammer the wagon with confirmed scum Saint, your meh read Llama, and your scum read KK on it. And made the choice to hammer the Town player (per you at 1474) who claimed a Power-role over the Town player who claimed VT. And is fucking useless.

APRILS FOOL????

Really, A Gaggle of Geese? That's how your sidestepping MagnaofIllusion's pretty decent case against you?

And what's you case against me? Repetition?

Hint: Now's the time to actually put up or shut up, scum.

[Kublai Khan]

^ scum

And what's you case against me? Repetition?

[Kublai Khan]

Really, A Gaggle of Geese? That's how your sidestepping MagnaofIllusion's pretty decent case against you?

And what's you case against me? Repetition?

Hint: Now's the time to actually put up or shut up, scum.

I'll walk you through why, even. Your post lack something that means you genuinely think we're scum. nice posturing though. (put up or shut up and NOCASE also don't indicate thinking we're scum). you seem more fucking interested in ~debating~ with us than trying to figure out our alignment. (but you already know our alignment teehee )

I'm not really interested in debating you. I just want to know the motives behind your actions. If your motives are pure, then you have nothing to worry about.

THE CASE REVOLVES AROUND THE FACT YOU REPLACED INTO A SCUM SLOT. I THINK THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A SCUMTELL. COUNTER THAT. GO. NOW. LET US DEBATE.

If animorpherv1's play is the sole reason that you think I'm scum, then why did you wait for farside22 to post a weak case on me and for OhGodMyLife to second it before jumping on a lazy bandwagon?

Why are you refusing to comment on MagnaofIllusion's observation that you went against your town reads in deciding yesterday's lynch?

[Kublai Khan]

Well, I'm sorry too. You failed at being funny and you failed at pretending to be town.

vote: A Gaggle of Geese

Let's wait for what Apokalyptika has to say.

[Kublai Khan]

bitch bitch bitch

[Kublai Khan]

@A Gaggle of Geese - Why do you have such a town-read on OhGodMyLife? (Keep in mind that I'm refusing to accept "gut" as an answer)

@My Town reads above – I’d like to hear your thoughts on the following Topic –

The Backstage has YET to be hit with a successful Mafia kill.

You didn't list me as either a town or scum read, but I'll chip in my thoughts anyways.

If scum aren't targetting the backstage members, then that means that they feel that they have safely neutralized them. Since farside22 and A Gaggle of Geese have been the only consistent members, it seems strongly likely that one of them is scum.

@LlamaFluff or Locke Lamora - Did the backstage quicktopic you visited have all the previous night's message still in it? If so, could you give a rundown?

Kublai... I want to see you as town, I really do, but you're making it hard for me. Now, I have grown up in a family of mathematicians, spent my life surrounded by mathematicians, and am a math major (albeit a shitty one) so I may be biased, but prime number commuter doesn't seem that implausible of a claim. Yes, I know he was fakeclaiming, but given that this site tends to have fairly intelligent people, it wouldn't be surprising if two or more people thought of a prime number mechanic independently. Also, you said you weren't that suspicious of Seacore otherwise. Bad times.

I never said the prime number part was implausible. On the contrary, I thought it was a brilliant limitation on a role, but the only other time I heard of it was a few days prior. That made me believe that Seacore had created a fakeclaim. I fucked up.

Elect Apokalyptika

[Kublai Khan]

YOU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND. I DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS. AKA I SAID IN MY SCUM QT THAT I WOULD GO AFTER KK TODAY SO THATS WHAT IM DOING.

Oh.

[Kublai Khan]

lmfao @ the obv scum trying to act naturally with each other and failing so bad.

liked the way KK ignored my town tells on ogml and tried to be funny.

also, asking about how backstage works given we know scum was there n1 and likely at least 1 scum has been there since is clearly KK trying to play town who doesn't know how BS works.

[Kublai Khan]

KK won't even respond to my OGML town tells with words (SCARED)

I thought you didn't want to "debate" me.

But simply put, your town-tells are a joke. It's easy for scum-OhGodMyLife to say "Sacrifice me!" (not "Lynch me!") because at the time he said it, there was nobody worth sacrificing him for (the only dead power role (vezokpiraka-tracker) had died without results).

Also, an early vanilla claim is a town-tell? That such a stupid, stupid statement that it almost makes me want to dig up dozens of examples proving you wrong.

So since those two "tells" happened on Day 2. Now list the tells that made OhGodMyLife "obvtown" since Day 1.

@LlamaFluff - Either claim an innocent on A Gaggle of Geese or put him back on the damn table.

Oh yeah, I watched LMP night 1 and nobody visited him. I actually didn't intend to breadcrumb, though. Magna, where does your town read on KK come from? KK, I'm not getting what that post with the picture of string or whatever was supposed to get across. Gaggle v. MoI/Gaggle v. KK is just buckets of fun.

Hey look. Kublai Khan was 100% right about Apokalyptika.

Also, the picture is spaghetti thrown against the wall. The message being that Gaggle is throwing anything/everything against me and hoping that it "sticks". Note that he had earlier said "Cases are overrated" and that "he isn't going to make one" (Post 1525).

[Kublai Khan]

What happened to yesterdays stuff? You wanted OGML dead, LL dead, now somehow the flips of Sea and AGar change all of that? I dont get it.

Ideal sac/lynch combo. Go.

I don't want OhGodMyLife dead. He's town... Well strongly likely to be town. He claimed to be a "Spirit of Old World" brand town before AGar flipped and revealed that such a thing exists. So, though I'm wary of fakeclaims, he's in the town column for now.

Locke Lamora is still strongly in the scum column. A Gaggle of Geese is just being a flea right now. When someone starts conjuring up a case on me from out of thin air, I have to stop and point out how scummy that is.

No sacrifice today. Yesterday's revive was a luxury that we wasted and got little info in return.

Lynch preferrence - A Gaggle of Geese, Locke Lamora, coinflip between WrathChild & farside22.

@KK: Where you not the one who claimed to have a mild town read day 1 on OGML. Don't be a hypocrite.

Again, already answered something silimar, farside22. Reads change as time progresses. OhGodMyLife is particularly hard to read because he's a lurking asshole.

5 scum and 1 sk can leave town fucking raped too early to be doable I think.

Except that there is a special "revive" mechanism that can give town confirmed power roles. 5 scum is possible. Plan for the worst case scenario, don't push for rosier scenarios.

[Kublai Khan]

*facepalm*

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, you guys were stretching to avoid seeing the most obvious thing.. That WC was scum..

Speaking of which..

@WC: Why did you NK LynchMePls?

[Kublai Khan]

eh gonna leave this thread. if anyone has anything they wanna say, feel free to pm. i can see this getting really angry really quick and tbh i'm not in the mood to get fucking shouted at.

Naw, no anger really. ooba has it right. Scum would have probably won anyways if they hadn't messed up the voting thing, so it's hard to be too upset..

Just skimmed the backstage QT...
1) Ythill is a brilliant bastard and Saint/Furc saved town's ass
2) WC was 1-shot BP for flavor reasons? No big red flag on that? Oh, this loss will haunt you for a bit, Faraday..

[Kublai Khan]

People hold too many grudges here.

OMG! BLACKLISTED!

Seriously, though.. You have a good point. The loss kinda sucks, but overall I had a really fun time. Thanks to Jahudo for modding/designing the game. Thanks to Faraday (I think?) for inviting me to play. Thanks to the other players for entertaining me. I don't think ill of anyone for any bad decisions made in the moment.

I think I know why chesskid was so gung-ho about lynching me (i think it goes back towards my supposed lack of sincerity about my hating the backstage?), but I was a little disappointed and caught off-guard by farside's confirmation bias against my player slot due to ani's play. I really didn't know how to overcome that.

I really enjoyed Magna's claim. I thought it was somewhat believable, though in retrospect I'm facepalming a little. I think I need to caution myself overall against believing exotic sounding roles.