Mini 1180: Game Over

[Elsa von Spielburg]

/confirm

What time zone are you in?

How much experience do you have playing mafia (either on or off-site)?

About how active are you usually in a game?

RVS or RQS? Why?

EST

I've probably played ~100 games IRL, and about a dozen or so online, on this site and a few others.

I typically can post several times a day if I get rolling in a game, typically shorter posts, I hate walls. However, I am graduating in 2 weeks, so my activity may be very spotty for this beginning bit.

Vote: monk

(honestly, I don't think I've had a game that's started with questioning instead of voting, so this is new)

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Vote: monk

Yup.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Here's a random question for everyone too:
Do you prefer to play as town, scum, third party, or no preference? If "third party" please specify what kind of third party.

Town, easily. There's SO much less pressure on me, and therefore much less lurking (such is usually my awful scum playstyle). In all, it makes for a more active/fun game for me.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Hah, I had no idea that votes were not counting yet. I think I saw someone else vote and did so myself, thinking the RVS was upon us.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

(Graduating in a week, sorry I have not been around. School kicking my ass.)

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Secret Project and jill look clean to me due to their respective roles/reactions to that debacle of jill’s posting. Krew comes off as paranoid when mentioning gambits and just a little bit scummy in his dealing with jill, since it seems like a pretty obvious case to me.

I also am erring on the side of SecretProject in his ongoing, if a little tiring, argument with Ironhead.

Gerhard’s vote on jill is EASILY the scummiest thing I’ve seen so far. I had to stop myself from doing a drive-by vote of him earlier when I was reading over the thread in between school work. Now that I’ve had time to read fully and think, it still feels like his post was a “jump into thread, find the easiest case, and jump onto that lynch” without looking at the thread in depth. Why? Because scum don’t have the burden of looking for scum and therefore don’t have to look at the thread in depth. His excuse/explanation post does nothing to placate these concerns of mine.

Vote: Gerhard

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Gerhard has been lurky and gave an "lol-gotta-catch-up" post that I always seem to find scum making. As such, I'm still liking my vote on him and I'm curious as to why you think he's town. Gonna reread to see if there's anyone else that pings my radar.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

(sleepy, btw)

I think I'd be okay with a Krew lynch at this point, based on the way he didn't let jily go in their exchange earlier and now has kind disappeared under pressure. I won't vote just yet, but that's something that I see a lot out of scum, at least when playing IRL (which is largely my base in playing mafia).

Also, getting town vibes from mastin since he joined and the way he's handling the current wagon. Is stating town-reads encouraged? I've always used them to much success and benefit to the town, but I kinda want to know other peoples' views on them

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Secret Project, what is your opinion of WormyKrew?

Which head are you asking?

Does it matter? I thought the idea was that you still play / are addressed as one player.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Oh hai, Scumhunter, get caught up soon.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Town reads (from strongest to weakest): jilynne1991, ironhead, secret project, darth yoshi, captain corporal (much of this is based on my read on gerhard), mastin2
Very Slightly leaning town/null: weirdalexv, Monk
Very Slightly leaning scum/null: Aldusskel, TheWayitEnds
Scum reads (from strongest to weakest): WormyKrew, ElsaVonSpielburg (lurking is a scumtell from her imo)

You've had one game with me. Where I was town. Not a whole lot to go off of using a meta argument. Also, graduating this week, remember?

Despite that, I agree that you're giving a town vibe in your initial set of posts.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Also, getting a town read from Yoshi from his last few pages (calling for people to votevotevote). Need to write this down so I don't forget again.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

@Elsa, to clarify in the other game we were in you weren't the most prolific poster either and you used the whole graduation dealio as an excuse there, which is totally legit. Life takes precedence over forum mafia obviously. My suspicion on you is not so much because of the inactivity as much as it is the lack of meaningful things you say when you do post imo.

Absolutely agreed. I think (aside from school slowing me down) this game has been moving a little faster than I expected, so I'm having problems keeping up or building a real solid case. It sucks that I'm saying this, (since when someone says this it's usually a scum-tell in my book!) but I'll try and see if I can get something together soon. Just in case, my vote is laying on someone without due cause:

Unvote

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Reread the last 5 pages or so. Honestly, I was most suspicious of our two hydras before, with Krew being suspect #1, and there has been nothing to change that suspicion while I wholeheartedly agree with SP's 467. I have several somewhat-solid town-reads that I'm making note of, but Krew has never pinged that bit of my brain even once, despite his relatively high activity. For the most part, the biggest thing that catches my eye seems like Krew flailing in his last few posts and switching to SP in an attempt to find any kind of purchase. I would like to vote, but don't know where we are in the vote count (I'll gladly put him at L-1, but I don't want to hammer out of the blue).

Ironhead seems opportunistic for his place on this wagon, but honestly there's no way to know if that's scummy or not until Krew flips. Something that stood out to me.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Elsa in #177 you state that you have a town-read on Secret Project but then proceeds to state that you were suspicious of both hydras in #469 without mentioning Secret Project at any point in time between these, what changed?

Vote: Elsa

Honestly? I forgot about that read. As I said, and I'm aware enough to know this is scummy, but I'm having a hard time keeping track of this game (21+ pages for Day 1!). Thanks for bringing it up, though.

@Alduskkel

Krew continued to push jily for a few more posts despite her incredibly obvious townslip and the way in which he did it reads more as 'scum trying to find a case' then just 'paranoid town'.

I was planning on dropping my vote on Krew, like I had said earlier, to put him at L-1, but he had to go and post 508, which has the self-awareness and tone that looks incredibly town. I mean, saying why someone's town read on you is fundamentally flawed? What scum does that?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Krew continued to push jily for a few more posts despite her incredibly obvious townslip and the way in which he did it reads more as 'scum trying to find a case' then just 'paranoid town'.

Did you even read my replace-in post because this is reading as if you haven't, if you did so you would have noticed and addressed the following:

Jilynne1991: Something that should probably be brought to light is the fact that she's not a new player, she's an alternate account of another player at this site. Proof of this is here though you'll need to attain access to Forum 62 to read it. I'm reading her play this game as an overexaggeration of her false newbie status and

if you read her 'town slip' knowing she's not new it reads as highly suspicious.

I however am apprehensive over lynching her at the current moment due to her claim, I'm willing to leave her to the side until tommorow.

Jilynee, I'm going to continue to disbelieve this and arguing over it really is pointless,

[Redacted] proves that you knew what a QT was before you asked about it in this thread therefore the noob-town read that people attained from that is incorrect.

I took her constant questions of "what's a _____?" questions at face value and thought she was a relatively new player. I can't see that link you posted and I have not played a game with her ever, but to learn that jily is playing distinctly different in this game would definably be of note, if it is true.

However, in light of this new info, does this really change the nature of people's reactions to her 'townslip' since they thought she was a new/inexperienced player, anyways?

Honestly? I forgot about that read.

Did I read this wrong or is it a scumslip?

VOTE: Elsa von Spielburg

? How is this a considered a scumslip? I forgot about what I had said earlier and that SP was part of what transpired with jily. It's definitely embarrassing and bad play if I can't keep my thoughts together like that, but scummy?

(to me, townies tend to be more vigorous, or at least more insulting, in defending themselves against others)

Now this is crap (see what I did there?) I was like that for a while when I was a newer player, and I tend to become more volitile the closer I come towards lynch as a townie, but you're telling me you have not seen many calm/self-aware play-styles? Because I tend to be as honest as possible, even with my own screwups. I'm not terribly happy with my play so far, but to be lynched for what I've said would make little sense.

Town would have put their money where their mouth is.

I saw something that read town from the person I was about to vote for and it was enough to give me pause. It seems we disagree on the nature of Krew's post, but you want me to say to hell with my reads and vote him anyways?

Bah, I'm getting defensive. Never good as town. Gonna go find someone to vote for.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

...MASTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN....
I WAS PROMISED THAT POST.
TODAY.

Hmm, that's a pretty decent chainsaw above.

^I lol'd, for whatever reason.

anyway, WHERE ARE THE ELSA VON SPIELBURG VOTES???

Because you went: "OMG SCUMSLIP!"

And I asked: "WAT? HOW?"

And you said: "LOL I DUNNO, FIGURE IT OUT! LYYYYYYNCH!"

That's a verbatim transcript, btw. I'm tempted, honestly, to vote wierdalex for his poor pushing of a mislynch, but I know that cries of "OMGUS!@" will come shortly after. Eh, screw it, his case is weak.

Vote:wierdalexv

[Elsa von Spielburg]

MOD! (and players who have an opinion on the matter)

I will be on vacation from the 12th to the 19th with limited to no internet access. If you need/want me to replace out, I will, but I would like to stay in this game if at all possible. What say ye?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Excellent, thanks Substrike.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I'm tempted, honestly, to vote wierdalex for his poor pushing of a mislynch, but I know that cries of "OMGUS!@" will come shortly after.

...

I also don't like her OMGUS.
By the way. VOTE: Elsa.

lol?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Back, hopefully the only wall I'll have to post this game:

Anyone notice jily was going through Elsa's posts saying how town Elsa was? But then she doesn't mention the post where Elsa decides I'm town...

Misrep. I never said you were definitively town or not, just that you gave a single town-reading post was enough to stave my vote from you.

I have some questions to ask Elsa when she gets back.

Fire away.

I’m feeling better about a SP-Town read, just because I wholeheartedly agree with him, when he says:

Also this day is getting to the point where it's just really boring and dumb and we need a lynch to refresh everyone plus go off of new information so let's hurry this up please?

This town is just drowning in text and it’s likely that scum in contributing to the problem (seen this thing happen before on this site). I also agree that scum is part of my wagon, at least one of them, maybe more. As such:

Vig-Vote: Alex

If someone puts Krew at L-1 and Secret Project doesn't wait for a claim, I will be mad. Don't do it, SP.

Holy crap, between the pushing of my case and this post, I have reason enough to slam down my vote on someone. Really? Pulling out this old “cautious townie” card? There’s two types of posting that I look for: genuine, sometimes-frank speak and dialogue that looks staged, mostly in an attempt to look townie. This falls firmly into the latter and reads as someone trying too hard win townie points. I don't think anyone was worried about this (SP hammering), or if they were, wouldn't bother saying it. You're trying too hard. Add to the fact that you’re just sitting on my vote as well. “Happy with my vote, but reread” is another statement that adds to that lurky-scum feeling.

Unvote; Vote: Captain Corporal

Double that with the fact that you replaced in on my first target of the game who was an active-lurky type. Can’t forget that just because you’re a replacement.

Wierdalexv [2] - TheWayItEnds, Elsa Von Spielburg

This is scum avoiding the mislynch that's going to occur if Krew actually goes through and attempting to set up a lynch on Alex for tomorrow. How everyone fails to see this I don't understand.

I think that the fact that Soben and CC are both pushing this idea that there is scum pushing a WK-mislynch is, in itself, scummy. Soban and CC are trying to preemptively throw suspicion on people who are pushing for a mislynch.

But yeah, as I said earlier, getting to Page 33 for only Day 1 is absolutely horri-bad and a lynch sooner than later would be grand.

And I just love how over the course of the week I’ve been away people have slowly drifted from alex as the Vig-Vote to going, “oh yeah, I can see how Elsa is scum” from absolutely no new content from me. Oh, looks like I just got to another SP quote that I agree with:

ITT Brokenscraps totally reverses his read on elsa WITHOUT HER EVEN POSTING.

Yup.

I think it goes without saying at this point, but the strength with how mastin is defending me, instead of following the popular opinion to a mislynch, makes him (and somewhat SP) town in my eyes.

Secret, no. We're not lynching because you're bored. Take some initiative, we have time to talk.

“Guys! I’m totally town! Look how concerned for the town I am!” Lynchity lynch lynch. For all the scumhunting he wants done, he's been doing a lot of one-line active-lurking 'content' recently. I'm liking this idea more and more. If the mod didn’t see it the first time:

Vote: Captain Corporal

I’d be cool with and combination of Vote/Vig of alex/CC at this point. Hopefully brokenscraps comes back and answers some questions because his play's inconsistency did stick out to me.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Allllright. Again, not much has changed since the last time I read.
I half-agree with this whole Brokenscaps thing, but I'd like to see his / his replacements response before I call scum.

Also, Elsa, I notice your OMGUS vote. Again.

Holy crap, between the pushing of my case and this post, I have reason enough to slam my vote down on someone.

Holy crap indeed. You then go on to say "I don't think anybody was worried about SP hammering". Why not? Why would you not wait for a claim? The worst it could be us scum claiming PR. It's rushed decisions like this that lynch town.

Rushed decisions? It's Page 33 and we're still on Day 1.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Elsa, are you honestly attempting to say that you consider comments like 'this day is long and boring' as town-tells because it reads as an attempt to create reads that aren't disputable more than anything else. Furthermore, your case against Captain Coporal is extremely weak, you attempt to attack him while ignoring majority of his actions throughout the game and ignoring the fact that you yourself stated high suspicion of Alex before leaving. I fail to understand how you would ask for an extended V/LA period, have the day extended due to it and come back to complain about the day length which was caused by you.

Just had a conversation with Scumhunter and honestly he's worried that TWIE might be just bad town and is feeling far more comfortable moving our vote back to Elsa, her attempt to rush and complain about the day length WHILE NONE OF HER SUSPECTS ARE BEING VOTED reads as awful. I urge everyone to read her last post and move their vote to Elsa as well.

Unvote, Vote: Elsa. UnvigVote, VigVote: TWIE

Yeah, I do read SP's comments as town. This day has been far too long (I wouldn't say 'boring'). Being able to pull reliable, comprehensive arguments from 30+ pages of content IS difficult and it IS easy to get lost in the walls of text. I defy you to tell me otherwise.

Did you miss the part where I said I'd be okay with any combo of vote/vig on alex/CC? Those are still my top 2. I go after CC instead of alex partially because there is a vig vote on alex right now.

I honestly expected you, alex, and CC to come in and try to disparage my observations/case no matter what I said since you're tunneling pretty bad on me. Which of you are doing it as scum and which of you are doing it as town, I do not know, but I'd like to see what other people, with more objective opinions, think.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

1) Ah yes, the refrain of more content = more good. While I agree on some level, it's not always the absolute truth, my friends. This isn't *that* complicated of a game that we'll need 100+ pages to find all of the scum. I have seen with my own two eyes (lulz meta!) scum drown a town in text, causing general apathy in the town, stagnating the game, and riding that to a victory.

2) Er... what? My two biggest suspects are not being voted for BY OTHER PEOPLE, therefore I'M okay with them not being lynched today? Are you just making things up now in the attempt to sound right?

3) I don't know who exactly is scum = a blatant lie? Wat? Am I suddenly expected to me omniscient? I'm not going to say with 100% percent certainty which of you/alex/CC is scum, but I feel we have the highest odds of hitting scum in killing off alex/CC. Also, reads change in strength, particularly when there's been 10+ pages of content when I was away. As such, my town read of you has faded. Scumhunter was a little volatile when we played before, but somewhat open minded and never full-steam-ahead illogical. You wanna play the 'meta' game, well it swings both ways.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

2. I'll explain it simply: You state you have suspects which aren't being voted today, this means it's

highly highly

likely they won't be lynched. You state you want the day to end. Therefore you're saying you're comfortable with the day ending with one of your suspects NOT being lynched.

I'm not saying this at all. You're making jumps in logic that simply should not be there. I want one of my two subjects lynched. Period. I will do what I have to to avoid a no-lynch, but that's common-sense stuff. Here, I'll make it easier for you:

HEY EVERYONE, LYNCH CC! He's been sitting on my vote while I've been away and added nothing significant for the past 10+ pages, aside from pointing out super-obvious stuff, "discussion good, speed-hammers bad" and then adding very little to the relevant discussion himself. Active lurking = scum. KILLLLLLLLLLL.

As for you, Soben, you've said a couple of times now to different people that you're "willing to listen to rational arguments" but when one is presented that contradicts your reality of this game, you seem to be doing nothing but trying to tear cases down or dismissing them with a bat of the hand and saying, "weak argument". Your words and actions are doing two very different things and it makes me wary of you.

I do agree about the meta thing against you, particularly because you're a hydra. I just wanted to throw it back in Scumhunter's face, in all honesty. I wonder if his meta argument of me holds now that I'm back and active.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Elsa, you've been lurking before the V/LA. My vote is still on you BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. USING V/LA AS AN EXCUSE WILL NOT WORK

Cool story, scum. Got nothing more than a one-liner despite me coming back and dropping many, many posts? Can't build on your case at all?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Guys, we NEED to get a lynch. I don't remember how long until the deadline, but I know it's close. WormyKrew may have my vote just to stop a no-lynch. I'm fine with Brokenscraps, TWIE, or EvS also. GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO.

I'll jump on a bigger wagon, to prevent a no-lynch.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Elsa von Spielburg

For my own use:

Unofficial Votecount

[3] WormyKrew ~ Mastin2, jilynne1991, Alduskkel

Secret Project

[L-4]
[3] Elsa von Spielburg ~ Captain Corporal,

Soben, wierdalexv

[L-4]
[2] brokenscraps ~

TheWayItEnds, Secret Project

[L-5]
[2] TheWayItEnds ~

Soben

Brokenscraps,

Wierdalexv

Ironhead [L-5]
[1] Captain Corporal ~ Elsa Von Spielburg [L-6]
[1] Ironhead ~ WormyKrew [L-6]
[1] Alduskkel ~ Darth Yoshi [L-6]
[0] wierdalexv ~

TheWayItEnds

[L-7]
Not Voting: [0]
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

DarthYoshi, WormyKrew, and Elsa von Spielburg all need to move to a bigger wagon. GO.

Wow, for serious? It was back one page. Stop trying to elicit a panicked, rushed mislynch of me, plz. We have 5 days.

Deadline is at 12:09pm PST, on June 25th. (6 Days!)

[Elsa von Spielburg]

wierdalexv, what is your read on CC?

CC, what is your read on wierdalexv?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Elsa's self-preservation is unbelievable...

Explain what you mean by this, plz? I could take this 20 different ways.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

WAIT WHERE DID HE PUSH THE DEADLINE BACK????

oh...there...

Anyways, I'm getting a townread off of him. It's slight, but he seems to be trying to scumhunt. +a little bit of gut, too.

Wow, for serious? It was back one page. Stop trying to elicit a panicked, rushed mislynch of me, plz. We have 5 days.

3 people changed their votes, so I was just doing that to see where we were at with that. Also, and I want you to answer this, what do you accomplish by saying 'mislynch'? I'm not saying this is scummy, but it gets on my nerves because JUST SAYING THAT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING.

I realize that it does not prove anything (only I can know my role and all that common-sense stuff), but play-styles can build up reads. I try to speak as frankly as possible in my games. I don't try to skirt around an issue or over-think my posts with the mindset, "what if people think I'm scum if I say this!?" I'm confident that my natural town play-style gives off a town-read. As such I am going to say, frankly, that a vote for me is a vote for a mislynch. Simple as that. Also, in the same vein of thinking, I'm naturally going to regard those that are going after me with more suspicion since I know scum purposely gun for a mislynch.

To go back on the offensive: CC has not really gone after anyone but me for a while, so I am failing to see where he's "trying to scumhunt". He said a while back, "

Since I think Elsa will be going down at night, unless a RB occurs, I suppose I should start looking for the other scum :U Re-reading to get more reads. I honestly can't see another scum here

." ... and then he does nothing but going back and sitting on his vote on me. I'd like to see more town pressure on him to see how he reacts.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I think Wormy or Broken would be 'decent' lynches (not great, you know who my top 2 are). I'll change over if I have to, but I think we still have time to swing a different vote and CC is not inspiring lately.

I'm not seeing the TWIE case (that and I'm worried that the people I think are scum are piling onto his wagon), could someone give me the short version?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

You know who my top suspects are if I end up dead. Had some free time and did this...

Vig-Vote Count:

Elsa von Spielburg (5) : wierdalexv, Soben, Captain Corporal, Brokenscraps, WormyKrew
wierdalexv (5): Elsa von Spielburg, TheWayItEnds, DarthYoshi, Secret Project, mastin2
Captain Corporal (1): Alduskkel

Not Voting (2): jilynne1991, Ironhead

So right now it's a tie, with 3 not voting for the major wagons. Glad the jily wields the power since she seems to err on the side of not killing me. I approve! (Where did she go, anyways?)

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Vig voting is a tie 5-5. So Vig Alex tonight, jily. Like Ironhead said, in the end we are just giving suggestions; the decision rests with you.

Too many people are agreeing too quickly when setting up the next few kills. Some of them are scum.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Elsa again attempts to work with the self-preservation via making an appeal to emotion to Jillyn over who her vig target should be rather thatn stating her opinion on the hammer, lynch choice and reactions.

Damn right. Considering 3 people in a row just said, "Elsa's getting Vig-ed tonight, rite?" I felt compelled to say that, no, in fact the vote was tied. You're saying I shouldn't have self preservation? I'm not one of those misguided players (that I've played with before) that "take one for the team". I die and A) the town is that much closer to losing and B) the game falls out of my control, so of course I'm going to try and stay alive. The fact that you're trying to paint this in a negative light baffles me.

As for the hammer... *shrug* I think some people are overreacting to it. Krew isn't my first or second choice, but the best choice of the current bunch and I would have done it tomorrow-ish if someone else had not. It was clear that the town was just going to stagnate and wasn't going to move forwards until a lynch went through.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Yeeeeeesssss.... that's what *you* think. Dance, my puppets, dance!

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Jily, who did you try to kill and do you know why it didn't go through?

VOTE: TheWayItEnds, although I would be fine with either a Brokenscraps or Elsa von Spielburg wagon.

Wait, what? You think we had 2 competing scum wagons Day 1? I don't think I buy that.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Wait, what? You think we had 2 competing scum wagons Day 1? I don't think I buy that.

The odds are low, but is there is anything that makes it less likely than the simple odds of any player being scum?

The only thing that lends TWIE additional town cred is WormyKrew's late vote for him -- justified not as a scum-read (which wold be consistent with busing), but justified as the quickest way to end the day. But otherwise, the rest of the case against him yesterday -- whether you consider it strong or weak -- stands as is.

Well yeah, I

do

find it hard to believe that a scum team would pile on eachother's wagon on Day 1, as opposed to just starting up and supporting a wagon on a townie (which I think happened here). As such, in this case, I do believe that Krew's flip does help out TWIE's town case (not that I really understood the TWIE case anyways). That's why I'm baffled at alex's vote right out of the gate. To go after TWIE right after the other wagon flipped scum makes little sense to me.

And yeah, jily may be lying, but that's something to be addressed after alex's flip. I said I wanted him or CC, and that has not changed (in fact it has been strengthened by WK's flip).

Vote: wierdalexv

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I'm still in favor of Alex/CC getting offed as soon as possible. CC dropping one of those "oh right, gotta catch up" posts is lurking at it's finest. His case and scumbuddy both got blown up yesterday and now he's got nothing to work with. Alex, on the other hand, seems passive and his tone has completely shifted from offense to defense.

I said ti already, but I'll say it again: I think it's odd that both alex and Soben are going after TWIE even after WK-scum's lynch. Instead of changing their thinking and trying to see who was associated with WK to piece together his partners, they're justifying their play from yesterday by saying "bussing!" and continuing the TWIE's wagon? I know some have explained why TWIE-scum is a possibility, but I just don't see it. The only thing keeping me from going after them harder is the fact that TWIE's activity has dropped off considerably so far, and as such, makes my brain itch. Don't like it.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

@Elsa: Can you rank Alex and CC in terms of scumminess for you, and why?

I'd put CC *slightly* above Alex in terms of scuminess, mostly due to the fact that CC started lurking at about the time I came back from vacation and hasn't done much since then (despite being *convinced* in my scuminess). He's most recently pulled out the old, "whoops, forgot, catching up" post that is one of my largest scumtells (active lurking at it's best and all that). Mind you, what comes after that kind of post is important, but he's shown us nothing yet.

The fact that alex has been actively engaging the town, at least moreso than CC, puts him slightly lower on my scumlist (#2 instead of #1). However, I don't think jily vig-attempt should be overlooked. Whether she's town or not can be addressed in the coming days, but she claims her kill on alex was blocked, and that alone sounds fairly concrete.

Everyone: Do we think we should look at SP's death (his top suspects were alex and brokenscraps) for direction/as a case for someone?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

@Elsa: Can you rank Alex and CC in terms of scumminess for you, and why?

I'd put CC *slightly* above Alex in terms of scuminess, mostly due to the fact that CC started lurking at about the time I came back from vacation and hasn't done much since then (despite being *convinced* in my scuminess). He's most recently pulled out the old, "whoops, forgot, catching up" post that is one of my largest scumtells (active lurking at it's best and all that). Mind you, what comes after that kind of post is important, but he's shown us nothing yet.

The fact that alex has been actively engaging the town, at least moreso than CC, puts him slightly lower on my scumlist (#2 instead of #1). However, I don't think jily vig-attempt should be overlooked. Whether she's town or not can be addressed in the coming days, but she claims her kill on alex was blocked, and that alone sounds fairly concrete.

So why is your vote on Alex if he is not your #1 read?

(HINT: MASTIN, DISCREPANCIES LIKE THESE AREN'T WHY YOU SHOULD AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME SOMEONE IS OBVTOWN.)

As for the NK WIFOM game, I think I've already noted that both heads of SP saw Alex as scummy, but that there are more damning pieces of evidence against Alex.

@Alex: What makes you say the CC/Elsa interactions look town-v-town?

Dunno if it's just me, but D2 *feels* like it is going slower than molasses in January...dunno if it is because of all the V/LAs or whut. Yeah.

Because not a single person jumped on the CC wagon yesterday and there seems little interest right now. Alex is my #2 and people were voting him, so yeah, I'm going to jump on that bandwagon.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Oh Jesus, the walls. Walls everywhere.

Hullo, twistedspoon, I am at the family's place for the holiday weekend and currently sleep deprived, so long posts from me are out. I'm slowly coming around on alex based on his current content and posting quality. Self-awareness is usually a very good town-indicator in my book and he's been showing it in spades.

And the more TWIE does not post, the more wary of him I become. Still, the fact that alex, Soben, and Brokenscraps('s replacement) are all on board (based on the wagons yesterday) will always give me pause. As such, I'm not convinced of TWIE-scum just yet, but I'm now considering the viability of the wagon.

Aside from that, who's interested in lynching lurking scum?

Unvote; Vote: Captain Corporal

I like how he abandoned my "wagon" when he made no case against me today AND didn't wasn't even voting for me today. 'F' for Effort, pal.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Unvote

Did a quick meta on CC, and it is literally nothing but 1-3 line posts from him from now til the end of time. What was one of my biggest scum-reads on him was just his playstyle. Meh, he ain't exactly helping the town right now, anyways.

Gotta admit, while I admire the dedication, the walls are pretty hard to slog through. I am considering the town-tells that have been brought up in favor of alex and Soben, despite my reads on them, and find them both to be legit points. Hoo-boy, time to look into the TWIE/Ald arguments, then.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I like how jily said I was at the top of her scumlist, and then turns around and says I'm "Leaning town". I have considered trying to start a wagon on her many a times now, but it's hard to get a good grip on how she's playing, and she DID claim a PR.

Ninja-edit: agreed, Twisted.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I've been working/away with friends since early Friday. Currently at said friends place. Don't spend all my days at my computer, sorry. And I'll get a vote on soon.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Yup, really just waiting on Ald. Did a re-read, but I'm not getting a huge scumread on him, honestly, based on some of his more recent things I've read of him. As such, don't expect me to hammer, unless it's to avoid a no-lynch (duh). In my re-read, I'm kind of astounded that we're not going after either alex or jily based on how the start of the day shook out. Honestly, jily is a player that seems like she'll only be a liability later on and her insistence to 'kill me because I'm bored' really gets under my skin. I said I'd vote, so I will, but I'm not thinking anything but an Ald vote is going to have traction today. Bah.

Vote: jilynne

Back to being swamped by work.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Wait, CC you have a null on Ald, but are still content to lynch him? What?

Also, this makes no sense whatsoever,

I hadn't considered an Elsa-Krew-Jily scumteam, but it would make some sense in a way :/

Soben's recent clarification (one or the other) is how I saw it, as well.

Honestly, I thought Ald's big catchup post was plenty strong and enough to make me consider a TWIE lynch. The logic there makes sense and nothing in there jumped out to me as scum. Also, the fact that he's posting reasoned town-reads while under pressure is another reason that I feel he is town. I think we need to turn this bandwagon around.

I'd be willing to lynch, as always: alex, CC, or jily. Alex or jily would be highly useful to sort out that vig-nonsense from earlier. I'm not letting that go.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Huzzah! Considering he and I have been at each others throats the whole game, what else can be said?

Unvote;

Vote: CaptainCorporal

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Yup, still on the CC wagon. I feel that mastin is town, sure, just like everyone else under the sun, but just because he is obv-town does not mean that every single one of his reads are correct.

Question for CC: How do you feel Gerhard played before you replaced in for him?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Hello, and good luck catching up to this monstrosity of a game. Walls. Walls everywhere.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

That's L-1.

Deadline
Who of
{Elsa von Spielburg; Ironhead; Soben; Captain Corporal}
will be around to hammer then?

I will. I do not support the Ald lynch, but avoiding a no-lynch is always critical.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Hah, I was not expecting that Alduskkel-flip OR that night kill. I'm doing awesome this game!

Mastin, what about alex? I did want him or jily to flip and now we have it. Gotta go back and reread alex's interaction with Alduskkel, but since Jily WAS a 1-shot vig, we have every reason to believe she did use it on alex and was blocked. I know people will cry WIFOM on this situation, but the simplest solution is just that: scum protecting themselves.

Also, also, is mass-claiming a bad idea yet? We are only down one PR right now. Thoughts?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Yep, just did an ISO on Ald, and unless he and alex were the last two scum (we are assuming 3 total, rite?) bussing each other for a majority of the day, I doubt they were buddies.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I'm in the real frustrating place of knowing perfectly well that I *should* be on the chopping block, based on not being part of either scum lynch, and thus knowing I could very well end up as the easy lynch today. I cannot really refute any of your points, since I was completely tunneled in on alex/CC on Day 1, and I DID think that Ald was town. I'm going to continue to play as honestly as I can and maybe be in on the final scum lynch, for once.

Now that I think about this, though, didn't we go through this with CC? He said thought WK was town and most people gave him a pass. Is this not the same situation? Also, are you one of those that does not believe that WK's vig-vote against me is worth anything?

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Unvote; Vote: Xvart

Huzzah for cops!

[Elsa von Spielburg]

You... made your own QT? You are a fascinating creature, mastin.