Into Africa - Over

[Llamarble]

Cirno is scum.
VOTE: Cirno

[Llamarble]

Ooh okay Snarky is scum too and can die first.

[Llamarble]

UNVOTE: Cirno
VOTE: Snarky

[Llamarble]

... Yikes.
I have 2 games deadlining in the next day or 2 and will read this after dealing with them.

[Llamarble]

Okay, other games are twilight or nighttime. Here goes.

[Llamarble]

Got distracted. Will read more tomorrow. Promise. Goodnight.

[Llamarble]

Ok, I understand Fate's reasoning now. As much as I despise him, he's a useful townie. Gosh, I'd love a reason to get rid of you.

Meow?

[Llamarble]

Oh and at sheepaccusers:
I pondered Snarky because I respect Fate & Elli a lot and found I agreed with them.

[Llamarble]

I am up to date on happenings now. I will get up to date on who is scum tonight.

[Llamarble]

Meant to get to this earlier. I'll look at top wagons till I'm too tired to continue.
Silavor:
First 8 or so ISO posts are townish ~one-liners.
Haha "scummy feelings" gave me a flashback to my newbie game.
5man scumteam question is wtf.

...Exactly what I said it was at the time, obviously. I was genuinely wondering if he was suggesting we've got a five-man scum team.

Ew. "I WAS BEING GENUINE GUYS." Also who would actually wonder that.

The cases against earworm make the most sense to me right now. Having a vote on Ze's not doing anything productive anymore.

It's the scum thing where they have to explain both why they removed their vote and where it's going.

Ah and the caps post is what people said caught for wrong reasons about. Seems about right.

Sheeping onto earworm isn't scummy, it's pragmatic.

"What I did wasn't a scumtell" thing. More 'caught for wrong reasons.'
And Silavor strikes me as just the type to give off that tell when wagoned.

Yup.
OK.
VOTE: Silavor

Hehe I only got through 1. Better than nothing though. And I did find scum.
Bedtime again. More tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

WHY ISNT MY SNARKY WAGON HAPPENING WIHTOUT ME?

Because lulzy scum are trying to lynch me instead, hoping that we'll just forget about snarky.

OBV DISTANCE.
Also Snarky's ISO is turboscummy.
So that makes 2.

[Llamarble]

I think we're at L-2. Count if you're considering voting because my glance was cursory-ish.

[Llamarble]

Hrm, Silavor townmeta 1156 does provide an example of "how does this thing I did make me scum?"
I can see Silatown now. And Snarky's reading town now too. Moving down the list: Earworm also. Maybe I'm just tired and think everyone's town.
No guess not.
VOTE: populartajo

[Llamarble]

That kill felt really random.
I don't think Fate's town.
VOTE: Fate

I should probably justify my reads at some point.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Cirno

[Llamarble]

Sorry, I suck sometimes until I find the pulse of a game, if that makes any sense.

Tempted to just quickhammer Silavor before he fakeclaims. "I was purposely stupidposting" reminds me of BGG, except Silavor is not bgg.
Why purposely stupidpost?
That wall smells of scumwall. Grey why is he town again?
Sketchy wagon should count against him not for him since if there aren't CWs scum are likely bussing.

Zel1nk is town.

also pacman is town

Is a 3 minute later addendum to a post.
Feels like a real observation rather than something scum would fake when they weren't already planning to.

[Llamarble]

DA FUCK?!

I hope I didn't actually cause that.

[Llamarble]

Oh well, here's hoping for a scumflip!

[Llamarble]

What I hoped I had not caused was EPM's hammer. Quote of Amrun was for truth.

Making myself useful soon.

[Llamarble]

Yikes. It's like still a week before I was expecting D1 to end.
And apparently I was one of the 2 main wagons today?
I hope we didn't do the cop claims guilty -> lynch cop thing without a good reason.
It sounds to me like we have a claimed guilty on a claimed Hyena who scavenges people, which doesn't really sound pro-town to me.
I can kind of picture "whittles away at the pride's stragglers to make the group stronger" as a town role but it's definitely iffy.
Calcifer you seem to be confused. Hez is the claimed cop. Oh well, I guess we'll see the flip soon.

[Llamarble]

I'll catch up on this tonight after I finish a library book that's due tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

I'll catch up on this tonight after I finish a library book that's due tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

Okay, today I am going to try to actually have an impact on the game.
Yay town for lynching 50/50 while I was being worthless.

VOTE: Amrun

[Llamarble]

Vote Count

Although an elephant has four knees, it is the only mammal that cannot jump.

HezLucky (7) - Flavour Analysis, ZeL1nK, populartajo, vezokpiraka, GreyICE, Fate, DietyKabuto
Llamarble (6) - elvis_knits, Seacore, curiouskarmadog, Lowell, snarky, Cirno
snarky (2) - Amrun, evilpacman18
Lowell (1) - earworm
curiouskarmadog (1) - HezLucky

Not Voting (3) - Llamarble, inHimshallibe, Altilysan

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch

Starting to think that Snarkywagon was pure scum.
I need some townreads. Zelink is still probtown.

CKD is very unlikely to be lionscum.

[Llamarble]

I don't know scum is all lions.
By lionscum I mean 'on the same scumteam as the guy who flipped Lion cub.'
You're not a random person.
None of my votes have been random.
Vezok seemed scummy to me, but Grey is kind of scummy too.

[Llamarble]

Lowell is town.

Vezok 939 and 927 sound utterly insincere.
I am having difficulty imagining a human making Vezok's posts so it is hard to figure out what that human's motives are.

Cirno defended scum and counterwagoned and tried to argue Heztown by stating dislike of the votes on that wagon. But if she's scum she's competent scum. I need to go find her scummeta, I guess.

[Llamarble]

Huh, metaresearch was fascinating and useful. Apparently Cirno is a guy?
Anyway, he is competent scum and when he is scum he behaves as he has behaved here.
That and some serious counterwagoning efforts.
VOTE: Cirno

I will post powercases and make people lynch who I want you to when I get through deepreading everyone.

[Llamarble]

TOWN:
Llamarble
Lowell
Zelink
Altilysian
FA
GreyICE?


SCUM:
Cirno
Amrun
Vezok?

CKD isn't mafia. Whether he is town is unclear.

PENDING FURTHER INVESTIGATION:
Everyone else.

[Llamarble]

I hadn't really looked at Seacore yet, but he seems town.
GreyICE could easily be scum. Vezok could easily be town.
Not sure about Tajo's VCA yet.

Honestly, I post mostly for my own benefit until I am confident enough that I have figured things out to tell other people who to lynch.
I'll get to that point soon though.

[Llamarble]

Huh, that is a pretty good list.

Yup Snarky is town.

Back to DnD.

[Llamarble]

I think EKobvtown is being overstated, which alarms me.

[Llamarble]

Snarky's vote is entirely uncorrelated with his town/scumlists, which were what I thought was good about him. He can die.

Also Amrun is totally his busbuddy. Amrun is like very scum needs to die.
VOTE: Amrun
If I wasn't already.

[Llamarble]

I was worried about people pointing the vig at Lowell.
On reread I was crazy. Lowell should definitely be vigged and will probably flip scum.

CKD bussed Hez all day long, thus it is improbable they are on the same scumteam.

Why must people simultaneously claim scum and self-contradict...
The people Snarky posts reasoning about aren't the people he votes for / tries to lynch. This bothers me a lot.
But on the other hand he has some forthright honest sounding stuff. Blergh.
And I just don't know what to make of him claiming to believe Elli. I suppose if DK flips scum he's probscum for that.

TOWN:
Llamarble
FA
Zelink
Atily

Cirno

TOWNWARD:
Vezok
CKD (Dayvig, guiltyclaimer was a goon)
DK
Pacman

???:
Snarky (contradiction machine)
Tajo (blorg)
EK (Way too much EK SUPERTOWN YO being tossed around; certainly she's playing well and putting in effort if scum, but where is obvtown from?)
Seacore (grolb)

SCUMWARD:
Calcifer (Inhim was scumterse)
Grey
Earworm

SCUM:
Amrun
Lowell (Uses "a townie wouldn't do X" scumlogicstructure)

[Llamarble]

And I'm caught up!
That took 3 hours instead of the 1 I was allotting, but oh well.
I'll find my most confident scumread by tomorrow night and then we can make them die.

[Llamarble]

That white magic possiblecrumb was Pine, who flipped scum.
Also Jasonscum was caught partially off what I thought was a fakebreadcrumb of Angel (which was indeed followed up by an Angel fakeclaim) in Buffy mafia.
So I don't think it's unworthy of consideration.
Could somebody link me to the post?

[Llamarble]

Went and found it. Actually that doesn't feel like a crumbed result to me since his first post of D2 is a Fatevote.
So yeah that seems a non issue.
I think Grey may be scum for other reasons though.

[Llamarble]

Argh, I don't want Grey to be scum but I'm pretty sure he is. With Lowell.

[Llamarble]

Grey is very pro 'Vig should shoot Lowell but let's not lynch him' which leaves Lowell the convenient out of not lurking quite enough to get shot.

Are people actually bailing on the llamarble wagon? Why?

You've read like 3 pages of the game, shut up and get vigged like usual.

Felt bussy. Grey hasn't really talked about why Lowell is scum, he just says he wants him vigged.
Also Grey is probably expressing suspicion of at least one buddy but most of the other people he's been attacking read town.

[Llamarble]

Amrun is also scum with Grey, perhaps more clearly than Lowell.

Right now I'm trying to figure out who of Grey/Amrun/Lowell/Calcifer/Earworm is most obvscum.

[Llamarble]

Llamarble needs death? No I don't.
VOTE: GreyICE

Talk about Amrun and Earworm and Lowell please.
Maybe you can convince me to lynch one of them instead of you.

[Llamarble]

Because my reads have evolved.

I feel like evolving is what scum's reads do whereas town's reads refresh.

[Llamarble]

He did already.
Not that I'm complaining.
Why don't you?

[Llamarble]

Llamarble needs death? No I don't.
VOTE: GreyICE

Talk about Amrun and Earworm and Lowell please.
Maybe you can convince me to lynch one of them instead of you.

Can you tell me what you think of those people and why I need to die?

[Llamarble]

That isn't why I want to lynch Amrun. I don't even think Snarky's scum anymore. He's just messy.
I don't think I believe you.
Do you really look at Amrun's ISO and not think scumscumscum?
Earworm's?

[Llamarble]

Good god, I've had my name mispelled before, but Llarmber... Hehe
Also apparently everyone on both of the biggest wagons is town? That's kind of weird. Oh wait Calciscum makes sense. And Deityscum is possible but mreh.

[Llamarble]

Elvis could be bussing. I need to read her harder to see if she's goodscum or just plain town.

[Llamarble]

I mean she can still be scum if you're town. But you're not town.
I think that 'she may be scum and bussing,' not 'she's scum because she's bussing' which is the retractable-based-on-Grey-townflip-thing you are talking about. Basically I think your wagon has a lot of town, and she might be the scum if there is one.
Anyway she may just be town. I'mma go read her now.

[Llamarble]

I am confident Elvis is town.
Seacore is moving to scumland after this counterwagoning. Cirno is still probably town though.
Thinking Grey's entire wagon is town and he's scum and his buddies don't want to bus because scum are reluctant to bus really good player buddies.
I think DK is town.

[Llamarble]

Arrgh, I am confused and not happy.
VOTE: Amrun
I am still pretty sure she's scum.
Tajo alarms me because I feel like he could be town and his reaction to today sounds pretty good but I can't really get a confident read on him.

[Llamarble]

Part of the reason I liked the Greylynch was that there were a lot of my townreads on it in the first place.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were only 1 or 2 on it except Grey's a good player and scum would be really eager to get rid of him.
EPM has a horrible voting record but I remember him being town otherwise, so I guess I'll revisit looking at him.
But I have confident town on EK, FA, and Zelink (well he's conftown now). CKD isn't regular scum.
I guess I'll look at Snarky again too, because he is a sea of contradictions.
And I agree with you that Vezok has been pretty horribad, so that is also of interest.
Cirno I kind of think is town but he could easily also be scum.
Amrun and Earworm are my best current scumreads but I need to reread them in the wake of new knowledge, etc.

[Llamarble]

Yay CKD has ascended to true obvtownness.
And no I did not target Z.
I'm planning to put a 3 hour block into this game sometime soon, but I'd like to hear who targeted Zel first 'cause that will seriously inform my search.

[Llamarble]

Also the reason is that two people targeted Z.
The scum person might say they didn't hoping it's a gambit and thus out themselves 100% instead of 50/50.
I personally absolutely believe CKD considering Zelink was pretty much the obvious choice for an NK last night.

[Llamarble]

I wonder if we can use CKD's ability as an extra lynch by commanding whoever we want to run up not to post for 3 days.
I mean scum might just post anyway, but this would mean each time we mislynch we get an extra lynch that day.
Also it's not impossible we'd end up getting 2 scumlynches in a day if a scum wanted to wifom us by allowing themself to get into vig range.

And Cirno, YES OR NO DID YOU TARGET ZELINK THERE IS NO TOWNREASON NOT TO COMPLY.

[Llamarble]

I mean if I'm put at L-1 and CKD says I WOULD HAMMER YOU NOW BUT IF I VIG YOU INSTEAD TOWN GETS ANOTHER LYNCH then I would do the pro-town thing and shut up.
VOTE: CIRNO

[Llamarble]

I don't think that information is necessary until the other targeter claims.

[Llamarble]

I wonder if we can use CKD's ability as an extra lynch by commanding whoever we want to run up not to post for 3 days.

this wont work

I have seen the role 'you have the power to die at any time during the day' get used by the player who was going to get lynched. I don't see how this is different. Say we're lynching an innocent player who targeted Zelink. That player would OBVIOUSLY prefer to get vigged and let the actual killer be autolynched today rather than waiting until tomorrow, for example.

[Llamarble]

Nope.
DK, did you target Zelink last night?

[Llamarble]

Having fallen for the same gambit myself as scum, and having been alarmed by Tajo before, I am pretty convinced he's scum.
Also yeah Grey would have been more specific in case Tajo died or wasn't believed.

Tajo, if you're town then lurk so CKD can shoot you. If he doesn't shoot he's scum and we lynch him.
If he does shoot you and you flip town we lynch him and save a lynch because odd number happiness.
OK?

Also Amrun is still scum with Tajo, though I should go back and make sure.

[Llamarble]

GreyICE claimed watcher in multiple personality mafia. He said 3 people targeted the killed player and asked for claims.
I, having delivered the kill, claimed possibly useless doctor and admitted to targeting him.
GOD that game was an ass whooping.

I just haven't really found Tajo town and that's been worrisome to me.
I guess I could go into detail but I don't remember exactly what it was at the moment.

[Llamarble]

(GreyICE was fakeclaiming watcher btw)
But I think all watcher claims should be done like this simply to make the gambit more powerful and to take advantage of scum trying to outguess and lying about targeting.

[Llamarble]

Also WTF is an incompetent goon?

[Llamarble]

And how could action resolution work to allow Tajo to give Grey power and Grey use it on the same night??
Probably that just isn't how it goes.

[Llamarble]

Haha, when I claimed in MPM I claimed doctor with fractional chance of protection.
Incompetent goon might be a clue to how many scums there are as a balancing mechanism etc. depending what it does.
I reread Tajo and he barely mentions Grey, which is at least not inconsistent with Grey being a secret townread or something.
But we have SERIOUS CAN NOT IGNORE role information pushing a Tajolynch.
And AMRUN IS SCUM TOO. AND CIRNO.

[Llamarble]

Looks like Tajo appears to be okay with plan get-vigged, which is pro-town of him.
Anyway, EK what do you think of Amrun? She fits into a lot of your 'scum in this area' groups and is quite scummy on her own.
I think I mostly agree with you otherwise. Calcifer is pretty likely to be scum.
Assuming Tajo flips scum, I think the rest of them are in Amrun/Cirno/Earworm/Calcifer/Lowell.
There are likely a lot of scum in that group even if Tajo doesn't flip scum except that would clear Amrun.

[Llamarble]

Yeah that's an interesting insight.
Who hammered Hez?
Also my EPM townread is substantially weakened by his voting record.

[Llamarble]

Calcifer?
Yeah we may be getting someplace good here.

[Llamarble]

The point is that if Tajo actually IS town the damage to us is reduced. And if he's scum he may cooperate trying to convince us he's town.
And we should tell somebody else to not talk too so we can shoot them if Tajo doesn't cooperate and then lynch Tajo.
Also we have a lot of players who basically need to be instructed to sheep if they make it near lylo.
I understand anti Vezok and DK rage more today than I did previously.

[Llamarble]

We have 18 (!) days until deadline, so I think there should certainly be enough time to use our dayvig and then lynch.
What L-? is Tajo at? I really don't want another quicklynch today.

[Llamarble]

We can still use our vig shenanigans to take out somebody else. Deadline is 17 days away. And then we can lynch Tajo.
And if the next player refuses too we can keep going till we've confirmed the whole scumteam!

ALSO CONSIDERING SUSPECTED HAMMER SHENANIGANS I WANT TO THINK A BIT BEFORE ANYBODY DROPS IT.

[Llamarble]

Yep, I think we should choose the hammerer and use CKD to shoot somebody also. Free lynches are awesome.
We can do nonbolded vigivotes or something to pick who to use the shot on.
CKD I assume you are limited to one per day?

Vigivote: Amrun

[Llamarble]

Hrm, that means scum will never allow themselves to get vigged. So we can hopefully confirm another guy as scum and end up shooting either a scummy townie we would've lynched or a scum going for MAX WIFOM.

Cirno, extra town selected deaths are GOOD. We should scavenge somebody before we lynch Tajo. But yes we should lynch Tajo.

[Llamarble]

The point is we ORDER somebody to shut up and die on penalty of lynch.
If they're town the pro-town move is to accept getting vigged, saving the town a lynch.
If they're scum they probably won't be willing to do it, but that just means we confirm more scum which is awesome.
I think Vezok, Calcifer, Amrun, Cirno are good options for scavenging.

TOWNALLIANCE:
Me
EK
Atil
FA
CKD (I feel confident at this point that he's actually just plain town. I do NOT buy a survival-oriented role gambiting to help scumhunt. Also flips and stuff)

Probtowns:
DK (Vanilla claim and DERPSINGULARITY)

Reads south of this one I need to think more about.

Hard to read:
Earworm - Scummy early posts, then around 15-20ish of his iso I pick up some towntellish stuff. Not sure overall.

Probscum:
Vezok
Lowell
Calcifer

SCUMZ:
Amrun
Cirno

CONFSCUM:
Tajo

Haven't gotten to yet really.
Charlie Seacore Snarky

[Llamarble]

I kind of think Earworm might flip town. Also we may as well let whoever we pick claim before their 3 days of silence.

[Llamarble]

Who in the townalliance don't you think belongs?

[Llamarble]

Charlie replaced you, but glad to hear you feel better.

Also Calc we could've shot somebody else if Earworm flips scum.
I'm afraid he's going to flip town power. PLEASE LET PEOPLE CLAIM FFS.

I'mma do some more reading because I have the feeling I obvtowned up enough today to die tonight.

[Llamarble]

ACTUALLY Calcifer was the hammer (because it would now take 8 to lynch) and there was NO reason to do it that fast. SERIOUSLY WAIT FOR EARWORM FLIP.
CALCIFER IS JUST ABOUT CONFIRMED SCUM NOW. ALSO WHAT IS WITH ALL THE QUICKHAMMERING WHAT IS THE MECHANIC??

[Llamarble]

YES CALCIFER SET HIMSELF UP SO HE COULD HAMMER PEOPLE.
AND HE'S SCUMMM
BLOW HIS HEAD OFF TOMORROW.

[Llamarble]

KILL CALCIFER SPILL HIS BLOOD.
He is #1 scum.

[Llamarble]

Apparently Calcifer is Nacho/Mastin/Andrius/Vasudeva/Callmeliam
Basically TOO COMPETENT TO DO THAT.
AND SCUM OFF CONTENT ANYWAY.
MAKE IT DIE.

[Llamarble]

Who in the townalliance don't you think belongs?

Answer please.

[Llamarble]

(Question directed at Calcifer)

[Llamarble]

I LIVE.
Today we are actually going to force somebody to claim and then be quiet 3 days so we can both dayvig and lynch.
With neither side having lost any PRs yet I'm guessing we're in something like a 10:3 unless "incompetent goon" meant something weak enough to give the mafia a 6th scum.
VOTE: Calcifer

There's not any scum motivation for hammering tajo if earworm's town anyways. If he's scum, then we can handle a misvig tomorrow and I would be happy to get shot.

You sound AWFULLY confident Earworm's going to flip town in this post...

[Llamarble]

I have a lot of reading to do now though. I was kind of assuming FAtown & Tajoscum while reading before but Earwormtown is real information.

[Llamarble]

He wasn't ever going to get lynched and maybe scum thought he had power or they were worried about getting docblocked?

[Llamarble]

Hammer another scum and we'll talk.

Do I have to hammer? Or can I lead a scum wagon in a glorious fashion?

This was from before we talked about hammers.
I feel like something fishy is going on here.

[Llamarble]

HEHEHEHAHAHAHAHA
So Calcifer is actually obvtown. Like I have NO idea what I saw last time beyond HRM SCUMHAMMERCONSPIRACY??

VOTE: Amrun

[Llamarble]

Calc could you tell me what heads have been posting though? That would be useful.
On to reading some people and eliminating actual scum.

[Llamarble]

Calcifer which of your heads has been talking?
'cause you have done some dodgy things even if you're goodscum if scum.

[Llamarble]

I kind of want to lance some of the derp pustules...
How much (if at all) to Vezok/DK's claims make them town?
Lowell could use some dead too.
And who is this Charlie guy who hasn't done anything yet?

[Llamarble]

Right now I only really trust Elvis Altil & CKD. I need to go find some more towns.

I think I want Vezok daykilled.
Elvis he's scum yes?

[Llamarble]

DK, what is your role name and function?

[Llamarble]

I guess that doesn't horribly violate rolequoting rules 'cause thats the wording of the sample pm with Antelope replacing Elephant... Still though.
I'll try and do some reading today.

[Llamarble]

Whoah, DK is like 50000000 times as pro town in the scumgame of his I just read as he has been here.

[Llamarble]

DK, are you one of those never lies about a claim people?

[Llamarble]

Yay!
So incompetent goon simply couldn't submit kills?
Also what was the godfather? Scavenge immune?

I need to figure out how to find scum that are trying to find and lynch scum.