Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[Scumhunter]

Hi forgot I was in this game. I read the thread enough to know to vote for MoI last night. Will be posting a catchup sometime this weekend.

[Scumhunter]

Post incoming. T-minus ~1.25 hours.

[Scumhunter]

Page 18 and counting. Holy fuck is SK obv scum.

[Scumhunter]

Obvious Town: Quilford (close to 100%), implosion,
Other town reads from strongest to weakest: CC, Cosca, Tragedy, Vezok
Null/Suspicious of: MoI
Incredibly Anti-Town (unsure if this = scum): SK
Scum: Zang, Jason

SK, your logic has been so terrible this entire game and you have been in attack, attack, attack mode on almost every player in the game from the getgo. Why does it seem like almost every post of yours is a veiled attack at like 10 different people? I see no town motivation for that at all. I mean I don't blame Quilford one iota for raging at you for the first several pages. I don't trust your power role claim AT ALL, but I'm still weighing the benefits/negatives of having you claim your specific role today. I'm considering the possibility that you are just an incredibly anti-town townie. I think you are scum, but you wouldn't be my first choice for execution today.

MoI, couple of questions: Why did you say you didn't want to be elected executioner? I 100% want to be elected executioner. I know I myself am 100% town (even my strongest town reads are still only 90-95%) and I trust myself more than anyone else to make a correct execution. More importantly, why have you backed off of your scum read on SK? He has been blatantly anti-town the entire game and you posted several good points on him day 1 that you have conveniently chosen to forget moving forward here.

For those of you who think Zang is town. His quote walls really say a whole lot of nothing to be honest. At first glance it looks like he is saying things but really its mostly useless chatter to me anyways.

-Zang's first post of the game posts 4 scum reads. 2 of which are on people who haven't posted at all (even though he has a neutral section for "everyone else") That left me scratching my head.
-Zang's #4 makes sure to point out that "Cod isn't his top scum read". But at the same point he doesn't even bother to clarify who his top scum read is until asked later. I feel if I were being misrepped about who my top scum read was I would make sure to clarify and point out who my actual top scum read is.

Jason's reads list #423 is terrible. Generally agree with Cosca's case on Jason.

At this point I'd likely only support Quilford/implosion/myself as executioner for today. And I'm the slightest bit paranoid of implosion because I usually have a scumread on him almost every game so it worries me a bit that I'm thinking he's obv town.

Vote: Scumhunter

, although I could compromise and vote for Quilford as long as he agrees to lynch someone in this subset [jason, zang, SK, MoI]

Have to run for now. Should be quite active in this game from here on out. Remember even though its day 2 we have already had 2 MLs. I strongly believe that the night kill/potentially day lynch mechanics may strongly favor the scum going forward. I very much believe this may be our last mislynch today so please treat this day as serious as you would treat a day 3 after 2 town lynches in a normal game.

Any questions about my reads go right ahead and ask.

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy <3. Zang, answer that townie bisssssssssssh.

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy <3. Zang, answer that townie bisssssssssssh.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, Tragedy is town. She is always mislynch fodder it seems. I'm very confident she's town really.

[Scumhunter]

@MoI, of course I read the thread. I saw your explanation previously, I just think its bs. If you don't trust other people's scumhunting wouldn't that be even more reason to want to be elected executioner? The attitude is the I don't want to go against the consensus and take responsibility for it if I screw up. I really don't think that that is a town thought process from an experienced player whatsoever.

In fact, if I feel this day is getting out of hand and headed for another mislynch, I have strongly considered so much as saying "elect me executioner and if I am wrong, auto-kill me during this night phase/tomorrow". That is the type of leadership, willingness to trust your reads, and putting yourself out there, that good town players want to do. Winners want the ball in their court. Especially one who says they don't trust other people's scumhunting, which is a weak cop out really.

As for why the game mechanics must heavily favor the scum from here on out. I highly suspect that night 1 was the only night that town will get to elect someone to kill during the night. The previous game suggests that scum probably have a way to just override the night execution for at least one night, and that their night phase votes count for 2, ya? I'd suspect a 4 scum setup here with strong town prs or a 3 scum setup with weak town prs. The n1 kill was a ML (town had control over who held the lynch power). Oh speaking of the night kill, why didn't you ask for a claim on who you were going to execute? That is incredibly anti-town and I'm shocked that you didn't and that this hasn't been mentioned.

As for your reasoning for backing off SK, I don't buy it either. Do you have some self-awareness? People essentially have worshipped you from the start of the game. I'm not saying its warranted or unwarranted not having played with you before, but don't you realize it wouldn't be an easy thing to just "push back" at you in thread in this game.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, your posts say a whole lot of nothing though, even those big walls that you seem to have gotten town cred for. I'll admit most of my scum read on you is gut and the tone of your posts makes me go mehhhhhhh quite a bit, but it is possible I'm just not familiar enough with your play style. I may see if I can dig up a few of your games to see how you play a bit better.

Why was fatlikepig scummy? And of course you don't "like" that i suspect you, no one wants to be suspected. Why do you think that that play is indicative of me being scum though?

Quil, not understanding your points system at all. Don't think its all that helpful either. You'd be better served using your time questioning people more in my opinion.

[Scumhunter]

Edit: Not that you haven't been questioning people Quil, I just feel like the points thing is a waste of time XD.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, no actually I didn't read fatlikepig's iso. I read through the entire thread and noted his opinions before proceeding to iso every slot but my own. Of course I was influenced by the fact that I know I'm town when reading fat's posts. If there is something that he did that rubs you the wrong way I will try my best to explain what I think he was getting at.

SK, you are trying to make EVERYONE look scummy. Do you have any townreads whatsoever. It seems you are comfortable with lynching like 80% of the ppl in game. WTF is the deal with that? How SK has not hanged yet is beyond me. I really should go through the thread and see how many passive-aggressive attacks you have made towards people that are backhanded comments with no substance. I want your reasoning for your reads on each player in the game, please.

Tragedy is obvious town. Don't trust me today, fine, but please take my word on that. She shouldn't hang today, nor tomorrow, nor ever. I'll settle on not today for now.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16898: This is an example of her scum play. She struggles giving simple reads and using logic whatsoever as scum.
Compare that to any one of her completed town games (or this one ffs) and it should be pretty freaking clear she's town. She's trying to find scum, which in and of itself is a massive town tell from her. Also, I have seen her lynched in a bajillion games regardless of alignment really.

MoI, you stating you didn't want to be executioner could be for a number of reasons. Scum wouldn't want to be the executioner and put themselves at the forefront of the game too early on. You would have to explain your reasons for executing someone. Also, you stating you didn't want to be executioner is a way to buddy the town if you are scum. It's not like you were fervently saying "oh please no, stop coordinating your votes for me as night executioner". Your sentiment was an empty one meant to put people at ease and say oh well MoI isn't trying to run the show lets trust that he will get scum for us.

That attitude is CLEARLY contradictory with not trusting other people's judgment

. MoI executioner...BOOM, dead town pr.

^^ This is of what

could

be going on if you are in fact scum. I'm not saying you are necessarily scum but you are in the subset of 4 people [Jason, SK, Zang, MoI] that I would literally eat my hat if at least 2 of you aren't scum. I'm very very confident there are 2 scum in there at least.

Oh and I obviously was reading the thread. I did see that Tragedy had said the same thing. I'm saying it again to reinforce that it is a valid point and that you need to be suspected a lot more than you currently are. You can try to play the "Scumhunter is an uninformed replacement" card, but just letting you know its bullshit. I spent several hours reading the game meticulously so try another scum-appeal to drown out those voices you don't like to hear why don't you

I'm not pushing for a MoI execution today, mainly because its possible he is town and will be useful as the game goes on (and also I doubt anyone but me would have the balls to make that execution today if given the power). That being said I think we would all be wise to strongly consider the fact that MoI is scum. There are far better execution options [Jason, SK, Zang] for today though.

Question:

What do you think of SK? I'm in favor of seeing a full claim from him. I still think he's obv scum. What are your opinions of him right now MoI?

[Scumhunter]

edit: the fact that MoI could be scum

[Scumhunter]

Which one of your 8 scum reads SK?

[Scumhunter]

LoL only 7, my bad.

I eagerly await your case on me since I assume I am the "townprhunter" you refer to. I'm still very strongly in favor of you claiming your full role. If you are trying to insinuate I'm "role fishing" you are already outted as a power role, seems to me you are trying to put off your actual claim as long as possible. I still don't buy your claim and I don't see why town has let you off the hook so easily here.

While you are working on your case on me, would you mind giving in-depth reads on everyone else too?
I know I have said you are obv scum and said it many times, but if you are town please prove me wrong. I am stubborn, but I am willing to listen. I mean you have to admit having so many scum reads is fishy as all hell. Plus your claim was the exact type of general PR claim that scum just love to do. Start producing some solid reads with reasoning and my opinion could change on you. Key word being could. I still very much think you are scum.

[Scumhunter]

implosion, many before you have made the same mistake and ML'd Tragedy. Please trust me on this one at least for today. I have played 2 previous games with her and read through some of her other ones. This is definitely her town play. See the scum-game I linked of hers or look through some of her past games if you want. She is definitely town. Also what are your opinions on [MoI, Jason, Zeng, SK]?

SK, my handful of posts today have more content in them than your 178 combined posts of one-liners and useless, baseless finger pointing. Specific reads on all player slots NOW. I'm sick of your shit. Start being useful or hang. I spent a good 3-4 hours before I even made my first post reading the entire thread and producing reads on everyone. What exactly have you done? Jack shit. That's what. Implying I'm not paying attention to this game is fucking insulting.

[Scumhunter]

SK, how the fuck am I waffling on you? I've said over and over that I think very strongly that you are scum or at the very least incredibly anti-town. If you are town, PROVE ME WRONG. START BEING USEFUL. POST READS THAT AREN'T GENERAL BAD FEELING AND HAVE SOME ACTUAL INSIGHT. HOLY FUCK.

I don't want to focus too much on you right now, just on the off chance that you are the biggest VI I have encountered to date. I'd like more discussion on other slots, particularly [MoI, Jason, and Zeng].

[Scumhunter]

Sleepy Krew, what are your opinions on each slot in this game? I'd like a paragraph on each with reasoning for why their actions are town or scum motivated. For someone who reads the thread as thoroughly as yourself you should have no problem doing it

Refusal to do so will be treated as a scum claim.

[Scumhunter]

@Cosca

Exactly, I didn't care too much about fat's comments enough to read them closely because obviously they were coming from town. I considered that confirmed town pov to me, but I was more focused on other people's posts, aka scumhunting.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, why do you want me executed?

[Scumhunter]

MoI, I'm willing to think its possible we are having a communication issue here. Firstly, I was aware your choice of night kill had been brought up. When I said "it hadn't been brought up" what I really meant was I didn't think it had been mentioned enough. I was aware of your response to it but it didn't really quell my suspicions and I'm still incredibly skeptical of you because we are 2 town down here and it very much appears to me you are leading town to slaughter here.

As for "fence-sitting" I thought I was pretty clear in that I was explaining what your scum motivation

could be

. I wasn't saying that that is your motivation, I was sharing my suspicions. Thinking outloud if you will. Plus I wanted to see how you would respond.

I've removed Tragedy due to the buddying displayed by Scumhunter. I can't see them as scum together and I have a stronger read on Scumhunter at this juncture than Tragedy.

I'm not buddying. I'm defending someone I think is town, who has a history of getting ML'd often. I've given sufficient reasons for why I'm pretty confident Tragedy is town. I can post examples from Tragedy's town and scum games but honestly I'm starting to think it would be a waste of my time.

[Scumhunter]

I don't feel comfortable with vezok executioner.

unvote, vote implosion

[Scumhunter]

Fuck it I'm tired of waiting for more activity.

I'm a cop with a guilty on MagnaofIllusion

.

I wanted to gauge reactions more about people's opinions on MoI before I outted my report, but I'm getting pretty fucking annoyed that my town reads are mostly inactive and I'm sitting here arguing semantics with someone who is like 90%+ scum.

unvote, vote Scumhunter

Let's go people, WAKE UP. I don't get the slobbering reverance for MoI to begin with, but hey guess what he very likely drew scum this game. Time to man up and kill off your beloved hero to save yourselves from slaughter. If you care about your own win conditions that is.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, I assure you I am.

[Scumhunter]

MoI, I'm not a fucking moron. I realize I'm going to be executed today like 9/10 times here. You have the town eating out of the palm or your hand, so good job I guess. I'm willing to sacrifice my life for yours tomorrow and hope that town will start to wake up about what is really going on here.

These people you will not lynch under any circumstances:
Quilford
Implosion
Tragedy

I'm having a sneaking suspicion that Vezok may be scum as well.

SK is probably just a VI. I waver back and forth on this but his reads are so bad and his play is literally so illogical that I have a hard time its coming from a scum player. Scum at least want to appear like competent scumhunters and he doesn't care that he looks like a moron.

Jason is probably still scum.

Zeng too.

TOWNIES, Im looking at you Quilford, implosion, Tragedy: I need your support here. This is an uphill battle as is today. If you think I'm stupid enough to fake this report.

I don't know how common framers are on here, but from the research I have done they are very rare. Although if one were to exist I'd absolutely have expected them to be on you if you, Moi, if you were to be town in this situation. I take it you are not a miller then? I was willing to try and look past my report and see if its possible you could still be town despite the guilty but as the day has gone on your actions are just more and more anti-town, pushing on the cop and my top town reads that I'm almost certain that the simplest solution is the correct one in this scenario.

I'm resigned to dying if thats what has to happen. I don't exactly have a ton of confidence that I will survive this round, but I'm willing to do whatever I can to prove I'm telling the truth here. Any questions please just ask.

And yes MoI is right about one thing, executioner votes are to go towards MoI or me only today.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, I asked people over and over for reads on [MoI, Zeng, Jason, SK]. I was planning on outting my report eventually today anyways. The whole point of garnering reactions is not tipping your hand as to what you are trying to look for. I listed MoI as a neutral read and asked for comments on him for the very purpose of trying to see what people would say. Some players became obv obv town for getting on MoI's case a bit. Look at Tragedy for example, she immediately was on MoI's case at the beginning of the day. Would she do that as a scum partner? 100% no chance in hell ----> Me realizing she is obv obv town as much for her meta as for her interactions with my guilty.

One thing I want to say is yes, I voted MoI for executioner last night. And yes, I checked him. And yes, I know I said I was suspicious of him even on the read through. So I'm sure someone will bring up, why would you give an executioner vote to someone you think could be scum? The consensus was to vote for MoI. I obviously didn't have my report when I put in my night vote and it really is critical that town all vote together at night. ESPECIALLY TONIGHT. If I am executed today, when I flip town, all townies need to vote for a predetermined person for executioner. I'm going to go ahead and say implosion is that person.

[Scumhunter]

Implosion, you really think I'm this suicidal as scum? You were going to be the executioner and as far as I could tell you were listening to me and generally agreeing with my scum reads or at least listening to me (which really is a huge step up to 75% of the game here). I was in no fear of being killed today with you as executioner as far as I could tell. What scum motivation would I have for outing a guilty on the hardest player to lynch in the game when I previously wasn't too worried about dying but now am likely to be killed. None. Zilch.

The town motivation is obvious. This is the only way I can get MoI lynched, very likely with the cost of my own life.

My fear here is MoI's influence and that this essentially becomes GG, if MoI secures another ML today as I had no confidence I could get people to believe me in a lylo situation. (I think tomorrow would be lylo if we lynch wrong today) I know I was feigning a bit of insecurity today, but I am a cautious player and even with a guilty I had to be sure that my guilty did in fact = scum in my mind before outting my report and pushing it to essentially a showdown. Obvious worst case scenario is MoI being framed/miller and my report causing instant town loss. After outting my report, even if I had a suspicion MoI was framed/miller I'd have no way to stop the town from leading him to the gallows and ending the game. I'm quite sure he's scum and I've been so for some time, but I really had to be sure and was just covering my bases. That cautiousness is a town tell.

Cool, if you think this is a bus, help me bus. After I'm done bussing MoI, I'll go ahead and bus the other 2-3 scum in the game as well.

[Scumhunter]

implosion I was eventually outting my report 100% today anyways. If I was suddenly killed during day-phase by a day-vig that was just a risk I had to be willing to take.

[Scumhunter]

MoI, no, I'm not insinuating that you had any idea that I was the cop before I claimed. I was merely pointing out that you were in fact fosing me, the cop, and a couple of my top town reads (Quilford/Tragedy).

I know how framers worked. I also know they are incredibly unlikely. If someone were to be "framed" in this setup, who do you think scum would choose though?

Why of course, hypothetically, if you were town, can't you at least see that "town MoI" who has the executioner power, is high profile, and likely will be killing a town-sided role night 1 would make the perfect frame night 1. AT EVERYONE, PLEASE DON'T READ THIS AS IF IM TRYING TO IMPLY THAT THERE IS ANY CHANCE IN HELL THAT MOI IS FRAMED AT THIS POINT, he is 100% scum.

What I am saying is that town MoI would at least admit that he would be a likely frame and that he would at least consider it as a possibility. The fact he is immediatley "scumhunter is confirmed scum, me or him" is EXACTLY the type of scum thought process. He's not willing to consider alternatives or at least concede to where my thought process could possibly make sense.

He's scum. He's using everything I say against me. I'd expect no less from an experienced player like himself. Please don't let him get away with it.

Moi, Your responses and reactions really just seal the deal. What separates you and me this game (and what town really really need to pick up on) is that I'm willing to consider all possibilities. You see I mention the possibility of a framer, and you immediately point out how I'm devolving into some sort of defeatist attitude. You are using every weapon in your power to try to destroy my claim.

What I'm saying and why I even brought up the framer idea in the first place was to try and give the town-sided players a glimpse into my thought process behind my thought arc on your alignment from before I even checked you. That thought process, that cautiousness, that openness to considering all possibilities is what makes a town-sided player. My strength in this game has always been convincing people I'm town when I am and being really terribly shitty mafia when I'm not. I'd hate to see myself lynched for the first time as town on here, but hell I guess it was going to happen eventually so whatever.

Town, what you need to look at is the intent behind MoI's posts.

I think implosion is on to something about MoI's immediate reaction to turn this into a 1v1 deal him vs me is his fear that any town exectioner would play it cautious and err with the side of a cop's guilty on d2 even if they thought I was lying. By putting himself out there right now at this very instant, he is leveraging all this town credit he has built all game for the opportunity to kill the cop. DON'T LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT.

For the record, I am okay with supporting someone else for executioner as long as they agree to execute MoI. No other execution except MoI or me is acceptable at this point.

MoI, the more I talk, the more you will squirm. I promise <3. I'm not defeatist. A little frustrated yes. I want to see you hang today and you will. If not, it sure as hell won't be from me giving up.

[Scumhunter]

At everyone, if you think I'm scum, please explain the scum motivation for me faking this report at this point and time of the game? If my goal is to "secure" a ML, why the FUCK would I choose MoI?

^If you can come up with a legitimate answer to that question that makes me scum, I'll eat my hat. If you can't come up with a legitimate answer to that question, there is only one option remaining: I'm town. I'll be here waiting.

/Signing off for the night.

[Scumhunter]

As fucked up as this sounds, I may believe you Zang. Going to wrap my head around this more tomorrow. Yes I realize what I just said.

[Scumhunter]

But Mr. Miller, your own claimed role suggests mechanics that would undermine the utility of cop reports. Plus, I just played a game on here with 2 trackers. Its possible. Can't see why Zang would step out here as scum and do this since I was probably going to be lynched anyways.

[Scumhunter]

I think MoI is scum, not just based on the report though.

I don't think it would be one of those fucked up 4-cop setups. I feel there would be more flavor hints towards that if that were the case. If there are any other cop claims, I think they should claim now though.

Given this information, who do you want to lynch Quilford?

[Scumhunter]

Well I swear on my dead grandmother's grave, her name is Dorothy and she died of pancreatic cancer last year that I'm a cop...and I don't see Zang's motivation to lie here as a scum-partner with MoI. Your miller claim Quilford, combined with MoI's lack of miller claim = I'm either officially insane or MoI is confirmed scum. I still say we execute between MoI and me today.

Zang's claim I believe. Your miller claim Quilford, while I think there are millers in the setup, I currently think you are full of shit and scum to be honest. I realize this goes against my previous read of you. But I really believe Zang now. And yes I know he claims my role. So suck on it.

I want to post this here just so I can feel epic if this is true: Zang is a sane cop with a guilty on Quilford, I'm an insane cop with a guilty on MoI the godfather. Epic soul read of mod get.

@mallow, can you confirm whether its possible for a cop's sanity to be anything but real in this game?

[Scumhunter]

Gah I don't know what to think. I still obviously want a MoI execution. Does a miller reveal as miller or as a Mafia Goon if lynched?

If I'm not executed, I think MoI/Quilford executions would be the way to go.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, I believe your claim, please trust me if you are a cop. I'm not lying as hard as that may be for you to believe. I understand there is no reason for you to fake claim here, but there would be no reason for me to either. Think about it from my pov, if I'm a cop trying to get a townie lynched, why the FUCK would I choose MoI over (SK/Jason/Tragedy/pretty much anyone freaking else in the game other than MoI). What I'm saying is there would have to be some other target I'd aim for for a ML. I know people will claim "WIFOM", but really this isn't a wifom situation. There are strategies that are optimal and there are strategies that are suboptimal. Faking a guilty on MoI and accepting it as a suicide mission from the minute I posted my report is not a scum tactic.

Question at MoI: How do you feel about the idea of a Quilford execution?

[Scumhunter]

Gah, I need sleep. Someone with a brain help. I'm contemplating the idea of a mass claim. THoughts anyone?

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, you just contradicted yourself by the way. One post you just said "I think one of you is paranoid or insane". And the very next post you said you want me to hang. Either you believe there are 2 cops or you don't. My spidey senses are telling me this was a slip and you know we are both real.

Zang, very serious question here and its imperative that you answer honestly: If you were bestowed the executioner ability would you be willing to execute Quilford instead of me? If you don't feel comfotable saying yes, please don't lie. Your reaction to Quilford's claim is very town. You can think I'm buddying and full of shit today thats fine. I want Quilford/MoI to hang. If Quilford flips confirmable scum, I'd be fine having any protective role be on Zang as opposed to me.

There is a way to distinguish between a miller lynch and a goon lynch correct? This is vital information really. I'll check the wiki brb.

[Scumhunter]

Right now quilford goes down.

YOU ALWAYS lynch claimed millers in response to cop. There is no way you don't do that. After that someone should NK Scumhunter.

I'm fine with the first part of that plan. I'll go so far as to say if Quilford flips scum, any protective role should be on Zang and not me.

unvote, vote: Zang

: This vote is pending you stating an intent to execute Quilford today and not me.

[Scumhunter]

MoI is still scum btw.

[Scumhunter]

If Quilford flips scum, I'm fine with night executioner votes going to Zang.

Zang, assuming you are telling the truth, please please consider not executing me tonight assuming Quilford flips scum. I'm fine with being checked, in fact I encourage you to do so, and if you still don't believe me tomorrow when you get an innocent we can deal with it then.

Please, please consider that I will have another report tomorrow. Note the support I'm giving you today Zang please. Things will be a lot clearer tomorrow. A doctor/1-shot doctor any sort of protective role needs to be on Zang tonight assuming Quilford is scum, which I'm pretty sure he is. I can't emphasize this enough.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, I believe you are town. Please don't execute me tonight. Please!

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, you are forgetting one critical piece here, the part where I'm town and Quilford is scum.

SK, I don't want MoI or me executed tonight tbh. I'm still considering the possibility of myself being insane/paranoid at this point in time. Particularly because MoI is fine with Quilford being executed instead of me today. Zang's claim is so believable to the point that even I believe him and I'm a cop. I know some of you find that unbelievable, but I have played literally thousands of games of mafia and I am willing to trust my read here that Zang isn't lying.

Moi, Please, please if you are town consider the possibility that I could be town here. From what I hear you are quite a competent player, so please please if you are town, reread me again just from teh perspective that I'm 100% confirmed town. Thinking "its impossible for there to be 2 cops" is just silly as all hell. It would be so unbalanced omg! No, not really, because 99% of people on here have the mindset its impossible for 2 cops to be in a setup and one will almost always be lynched. I'm real and I think Zang is real. I'm willing to think outside the box here, if you are worth the reptutation you have seem to amassed on this site, you'd consider the possibility I could be town here. I'm skeptical that I will be lucky enough that you are both town and will consider this appeal seriously, but don't say I didn't try to talk sense into you after the game if you are town.

[Scumhunter]

Yes implosion, I was willing to sacrifice to kill MoI, that was before Zang claimed though. I believe Zang. I also know I'm a cop. Yea. Please trust me on this at least for today. Quilford's claim is bs.

I will lmfao if Quilford is a miller and Zang is a role cop. Then this game will have been officially fucked.

[Scumhunter]

But Mr. Miller, your own claimed role suggests mechanics that would undermine the utility of cop reports.

Doesn't mean there would be two sane cops.

I think one of you is paranoid or insane.

This.

I think MoI is scum, not just based on the report though.

I don't think it would be one of those fucked up 4-cop setups. I feel there would be more flavor hints towards that if that were the case. If there are any other cop claims, I think they should claim now though.

Given this information, who do you want to lynch Quilford?

You.

There's no way this game contains more than one cop, and Zang seems pretty legit to me.

Followed by this is a slip. Quilford let it slip that I'm either paranoid/insane. That's what is going on right here in my opinion.

"One of you is either paranoid or insane" : That would mean me obviously since to him, the miller, Zang would obviously be the sane cop if he were telling the truth.

I mean Jesus, I see why people are suspicious of me but not really sure what I can do here. Please be open minded. I'm telling the truth.

Quilford's miller claim is bs. Even noobs know to claim miller d1 in a game like this. I've seen Quilford ICing newbie games. He aint no noob

Zang, et al. please for the love of god give me the benefit of severe severe doubt just for today.

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy, I'm town. Please believe me. I wouldn't lie to you. Maybe to these asshats, but not to you

I'm serious! I know you can't believe me now just on that but -_______-

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy, I would not kill Zang (nor MoI probably) at this time.

If I were given the execution power (which I realize I won't be), I would execute Quilford. His claim is bs.

MoI, I promise to have thorough explanations to all of your questions tomorrow. All I ask is that when Quilford flips scum, the protective role must be on Zang, and that I can explain all my actions tomorrow. If you are not satisfied by my answers tomorrow by all means go ahead and lynch me then. Please trust me on this?

[Scumhunter]

Quilford's miller claim is bs. Even noobs know to claim miller d1 in a game like this. I've seen Quilford ICing newbie games. He aint no noob

I have

never

IC'd a Newbie game.

My mistake then. Point being you are experienced though.

[Scumhunter]

Sigh, you guys are going to hate me. This will be my last significant content post in this game as I'm sure my imminent death will follow.

I'm a VT. I was so convinced that MoI was scum earlier and leading the town to slaughter that I thought something

had

to be done if we had any chance to win. You can think it was stupid that I did what I did and you know it was a completely irrational decision, but at the time it seemed like a great idea. I figured MoI scum = instant town loss in this scenario and I very very much thought he was scum due to process of elimination and tons of town reads. Of course now some of those town reads of mine were way off base (see case-in-point Quilford). I figured MoI had a >50% chance to be scum and that those times when he was scum would result in gg town loss insant gg. Now I think his odds of being mafia are somewhere in the 25-30% range and of course I regret my decision.

I failed at my #1 job as a townie, proving my towniness to other townies. I know some people will say scumhunting and finding scum is way more important, but I've always disagreed with that. So for that, I failed you and I'm sorry.

For the record, I almost never fake claim as town, and I guess I should have thought it through rationally as to why a counter claim would = disaster. I mean clearly Zang is real, its fucking obvious. It's also obvious Quilford is scum.

I would have retracted my "claim" earlier, and I considered doing so when Zang initially responded to me "Scumhunter, you aren't a cop" or something to that effect. Part of my decision to hold off until this point was the hope that you guys would lynch Quilford instead of me and that perhaps I could fade back into the actual utility of my PM of being a VT with a useless claim such as Paranoid Cop or something. Yes, everyone says town would never be thinking to lie about their role. Welp, I'm not your average fellow. The only thing I have in my mind at any point in time is my win condition and how to best achieve it. I thought MoI was scum and that if I didn't lynch him no one would and it was my job as a townie to do everything in my power to achieve that goal even if it meant lying to everyone. Call me stupid, but lying to town has actually won me more games than I've lost over the tons of mafia games I've played over the years.

Another dissuading factor for not retracting my claim earlier is I have heard of the "lynch all liars" policy on here. Any "policy" in a game of mafia is complete and utter horseshit as each game, each situation, and each day is different and any action can be acceptable based on the situation. ALthough really, I have to take responsibility for my actions and if I'm lynched here I realize its 100% my own fault for the decision I made. My claim was emotional, rash, and pissed off at getting fosed by MoI. My friend who referred me to this site told me that MoI was one of the best players on the site here and when I was being fosed by him I got into the mindset of how could he possibly have a misread on me if he's town if he's supposed to be so good. Bleh.

Town, you can be mad at me. I get it.
You can call me an asshole. Ok. I'll admit I'm an egotistical ass.

But, and this is a huge but, its still your job to decide if you have the courage to believe me here.. I'm sure many of you will go into the emotional "Fuck you what an asshole, kill him I don't care if he;s town", but I'm just here to remind you you still have a choice. Relax. Think about what I'm saying. If you still think that I'm more likely scum than Quilford, kill me. If not though, I just want to say there is still the option to not do that and lynch Quilford "aka the fake miller" today here.

Long story Short: I'm a townie begging for mercy and hope you consider believing me. I realize I shouldn't be putting this much pressure on you to trust me after I've been lying this game. It takes a special player to recognize my play here as idiotic town, but hey, if you guys want to be epic and if you consider what I'm saying here I think you might just realize what I'm saying is entireably possible. I mean I know its the truth, but if you just accept its possible and lynch obv scum Quilford instead of me, I'm willing to use that as a stepping stone towards being trustworthy again this game. I'm also willing to make a committment to not lie at all about my role/intents/foses for the rest of the game and generally not fuck around and be completely transparent.

/beg for mercy can we kill quilford please.

Good news is, the day isn't over you can still choose to believe me. Each and every one of you have the choice to at least consider I could be idiotic town and we can follow the uncc'd cop with a guilty. Good day to you all.

[Scumhunter]

I need papers....pardon papers

[Scumhunter]

Scumhunter needs death asap

Thanks brah, if you scumlords win you owe me a cookie at least.

[Scumhunter]

Your paperwork is finished. Kindly proceed to the gallows

I take it you don't believe me.

I'm an angel, see:

Quilford, not so much:

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, Zang would have no reason to counterclaim me, when I'm being VI-ish and faking a guilty on MoI. He wouldn't do that as scum to save a scum MoI partner and he certainly wouldn't do it as scum if me on MoI was town on town. Sometimes events happen in the game that make you go "ohhhhh.... " and make you feel stupid for your reads his claim was one of those moments. That combined with your terribad miller claim = *light bulb moment*. Its cool though, honestly Quilford, now you are saying "town just don't do that". That being changing one's mind on reads. Anyone with half a brain can see how retarded that sounds.

I'm a bit embarrassed with my play this game so I know I don't have the right to ask anyone for anything at this point, but I am interested to see what implosion and MoI have to say about my admission here. If anyone has a chance to save this terrible day from a terrible ending it would be one of them.

[Scumhunter]

Reposting this so implosion/MoI anyone else who wants to think a bit can try and understand my fail: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3357896

Quilford, mafia goon, that good sir is my tldr ^

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, you should take a hint from your buddy SK here. Completely ignore what I've written and hope town doesn't read it.

[Scumhunter]

Yes Quilford, he would do that as town, aka the town cop, aka having a real report, aka a guilty on you, the scum. That just proves my point as to why I should have immediately believed him don't you think?

[Scumhunter]

That was incredibly anti-town and scummy of scumhunter.

It shouldnt change anything though. We either kill scumhunter or quilford today and the other tonight.

I would prrefer scumhunter today because of his fakeclaim and just in case Quilford has papers that he is willing to pass on.

I won't argue that my acttions weren't anti-town or scummy. Both of those things are correct. Anti-town and scummy is not going to get you a scum flip in this scenario unfortunately.

Why would you want your guilty to be "passing" on papers?

I'm slightly paranoid these "papers" are a way to influence day-vote dynamics and I think it could really be a bad thing if I'm executed and scum get control of the night kill...

Go Quilford first, give me a chance to redeem myself please, at least for this phase.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, its not

good

town play, but sadly my play is coming from a town slot this game.

My play was irrational and an emotional reaction to MoI's strong fos on me, which I didn't think he would have on me if he were town. I'm not saying my play makes any rational sense because it clearly was stupid. That doesn't make me scum though.

[Scumhunter]

Town, please review who is insistent on executing me over Quilford even if they "say" they are fine with either of us dying today.

The scum-motivation for that will be blatant once I flip town.

[Scumhunter]

papers are most likely not pro-scum. Also, just because I ahve a guilty on him doesnt mean hes 100% scum. He could be a miller, its just not worth the chance to keep him alive.

Also, what would you do to reddeem yourself?

Yea, but I'm

0%

scum. Even if I have been MVP of the scum win-condition to this point.

As for how to redeem myself, I don't know...become more and more obvious town as the game goes on and catch scum I guess? If you've got any other ideas lemme know.

[Scumhunter]

Oh and "papers" would seem to me that they suggest being some sort of item that is beneficial for a player to have? Perhaps the ability to vote in a certain scenario regardless of alignment? Or at least that's what I'm worried about.

[Scumhunter]

Question

would you have retracted the claim if Zang had not followed through with his full counter-claim on you?

If I was elected executioner and having 2nd thoughts on you needing to die, then yes, probably.

As for my wall being a bunch of aTe: sure.

As for me should have knowing better: sure.

Neither of those things make me scum and if you look at my actions from a town perspective and if you think I have even half a brain I think you would see how my play reeks of desperation. But that desperation was to stop you from running the town when I thought you were unstoppable scum at worse and severely misguided town at best from my pov at the time...

[Scumhunter]

Scum play = cold, calculated, and with a clear intent and expectation for success.

My point still stands that I wouldn't fake a guilty on MoI here as scum. I did it because I thought it was literally the only thing I could do to stop MoI from raping the town here as scum. That fear was legitimate. I am competitive. I made a rash decision that I now regret.

[Scumhunter]

@Jason, sure, but scum are usually more careful not to make waves or to do something stupid and rash. I think we'd all agree regardless of my alignment, my actions weren't exactly "careful".

@MoI, I'm not saying you have to believe me. I wouldn't believe most people appealing to me in this situation. What I will say is I'm not sure you are aware of truly how much influence you have in this game. That influence is scary. Scary enough to force a town into doing something stupid when they think you are scum or even leaning-scum.

[Scumhunter]

@Jason, fake-claiming is not pro-town. I'm not defending my actions as being pro-town. It's a reminder to myself of why fake-claiming is terrible like 99% of the time. You say "no town motives", well my motive was to get the executioner power to execute MoI or at the very least be able to have the game in my hands and make a strong value judgment on his alignment with the decision in my hands. I felt it was worth the risk, but meh, I'm seeing the downside of it all pretty badly 1st hand right about now aren't I. I'm not going to just give up trying though. I know I'm town and as long as there is one townie willing to listen I will keep trying to help you guys make the right decision on me up until my last breath. That's how much I'm dedicated to this game. To winning. To town figuring me out and going after scum instead. The ball is in your court. I'm willing to explain myself, my intent, and my actions in-depth here, just keep asking ?s I'll be here doing my best to answer away til the end of time (or more realistically til the end of this phase (and tomorrow if I'm lucky or town is good))

[Scumhunter]

Yo Cosca, I'm not the cop.

[Scumhunter]

Yo Cosca, I'm not the cop.

We actually believe you here, and we always thought you're not a cop.

We just don't believe you're town.

^Keep an open mind. At least read my walls. I'm explaining my self. I'm not the first nor the last townie ever to fake a guilty on someone. Its still within your power to believe me even if 90% of this mess is my own doing.

[Scumhunter]

EXECUTE THE FUCK OUT OF QUILFORD

[Scumhunter]

CCs replacment-You domt have to give anyone your paper yet. I dont think you are in danger of execution right now. But can you please cnfirm you are a town leader by hammering the town executioner. I dont know the votecount but I think itsmost likely going to be me.

Questions for scumhunter-

1 yo said that you would sacrifice yourdelf if the town killed magna. What did you expect to happen if you flipped as VT before magna is killed?

2 Why shouldnt you be executed? Please answer this question without AtE. You may knowyour alignment but the town doesnt.

Cosca- your caseon magna makes little sence to me.

1. I was hoping that scenario at the very least would serve as a wake up call about how strongly I felt that MoI was getting town cred for no reason. (I'm still not convinced he's town necessarily, not saying he's "obv" scum or that my play was justified, still don't trust him at all)

2. Because I'm town. Dumb town this time, but town. Ever heard of the phrase "too scummy to be scum"? This is the situation that you would find in the dictionary under that.

-Scum motives for my claim don't make sense. If you read my claim from the very beginning you can see my attitude that I thought it was destined to fail anyways.
-I thought it was my only chance to bring any suspicion whatsoever on MoI who had really skated by this game after poor town play/reads day 1.
-The claim was destined to be an uphill battle from the start and I clearly knew that.
-Barring you viewing my claim as some sort of a "slip", I'd be interested in seeing what you think my scum-intent would be for faking a guilty on MoI there as opposed to an easier target? CLearly I didn't think it was a high % chance I'd get him killed in the first place.
-I've done my best to explain why I did what I did and I thought it was my best option. I felt the game was headed nowhere and that I was going to be lynched later in the game at some point so I might as well do everything I could to try and stop it and push on the hardest scum to lynch imo.

implosion's silence at this point in time is deafening btw. He knows how I play from many a game on EpicMafia and he really should view me as obv town here (no im not joking at all)

[Scumhunter]

1. I was hoping to gain the executioner vote and make a judgment of my own accord at that point. Notice that once you claimed, I IMMEDIATELY said I believed you. What scum immediately says they believe their cc is telling the truth. If I were scum claiming cop I would not have backed down for one second and insisted that you were full of shit. NOTICE IM SUPPORTING YOU FOR EXECUTIONER. I believe you are cop. Quilford's miller claim is horse shit. He would have claimed miller in his very first post in the game if he was really a miller and not scum. Honestly, if I were scum with Quilford there would be no fucking point even arguing with you at this point. But I am town so I'm trying to help you not compound my poor play into executing a townie.

2. aTe is not a scumtell. I explain my thoughts in depth on this in another game (see attached link). "aTe being a scumtell" is one of the shittiest "laws" of the game created by stupid people who can't analyze in-depth situations. How it has become a rote truth is a crime against human intelligence and analytical thinking : http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2994096

3. Like I said it was a desperation play. I was over 50% he was scum and that he was NEVER going to be lynched the rest of the game if that was the case. I thought it was a necessary risk. I wasn't that hopeful he'd be killed but I was hoping if I was uncc'd I'd be able to get the executioner power and I trusted myself to correctly kill a scum (MoI or someone else).

4. Not sure what you are referring to, what is also a scum reason?

5. Not if hyopthetical SH-scum with my hypothetical Quilford buddy were both being fosed strongly. I'd have 100% chose a townie who was at least getting some suspicion over the consensus top-town player in the game. Do you really believe I'd fake a guilty on MoI instead here as scum? Really? Think about that. Do you really believethat ? Because you shouldn't because it makes no sense.

I feel that you are stuck in the mind frame that my faking your role necessitates me being scum and drawing your reasons for why my explanations don't make sense off of that pre-conceived notion that I'm scum. I think it could help if you just read through my posts with the assumption I'm town, just for a second. Force yourself to believe that even if you don't believe it, I think it might help you out =/

@Town, don't completely rule out a Quilford-Zang bus later on. I think its very very unlikely as I believe Zang's claim...but if MoI is in fact town... A town v town cop claim vs. a scum v scum cop claim would be a dream scum scenario especially with 2 MLs already gone.

^ This is a less than 5% possibility, just my paranoia striking really.

Please believe me Zang. I'm doing my best here.

[Scumhunter]

I assume that Mafia's NKs are most likely just Executions, right?

SH: So wait, if you ended up with "Fake claiming cop", was that purposely a plan to actually make yourself "Too scummy to be scum", which would be damn accomplished right there? +Scumpoints.

No Tragedy, but good thought, I might use that argument if I were scum and somehow in this position...but I'd really never do what I did this game as scum and be in this position. I mean I'm telling the truth about that and I think I've explained why that's the case in-depth. I know you can't automatically believe that, but I mean, I am explaining myself and I can see how people would view my actions and be like "OMG SH IS SO SCUMMY". What I meant by "too scummy to be scum" is that my actions have been so controversial and impulsive that I'd definitely have thought out what I was doing more as scum. Scum are generally way more cautious and I definitely am as scum.

[Scumhunter]

I'm going to be

semi-V/LA from now til Sunday 8/21 - Tuesday 8/23

. I have family in town, I should have some access but certainly won't be posting as frequently. For those of you who have already written me off as scum please consider rereading my explanation considering for a second with the idea that I am actually town and what I'm saying is true. Good luck. Please execute Quilford and not me

[Scumhunter]

Hello Medicated Lain, will you believe I'm town? Someone needs to stand up for the stoopid townie yo.

[Scumhunter]

Your failure to listen is getting tiring. I'm trying to help YOU the TOWN not FUCK up and KILL ONE OF YOUR OWN

[Scumhunter]

honestly id have given up by now if i was scum since i hate being scum. no joke.

OMG FAKE CLAIM HE MUST BE SCUM LYNC LYNCH LYNCH

kids these days, no creativity.

[Scumhunter]

implosion, push push push >.>

take note of this.

[Scumhunter]

jason it is a BIG difference who dies.

[Scumhunter]

Jason me being a shameless liar doesn't make my role PM change from not being a VT.

[Scumhunter]

^ Sure. Just ask every one of my ex-girlfriends. Being a liar is a part of my personality. It's not a scum tell!!! LoL. But seriously I am town. Cmon now, I immediately called my cc real as soon as he claimed.

[Scumhunter]

Scumhunter- How would anything be accomplished if everybody used AtE all the time and the town always believed it?

Not every time.

This

time. It's on you to make a value judgment as to whether my appeal is sincere or not. Obviously you shouldn't always believe every appeal that is sent your way, but you shouldn't always not believe it either. I've explained my actions in-depth, if you don't think it makes sense, then I'm sorry I guess? I've explained my thought process behind my actions. Not saying it was a smart thought process or that if I had a choice to do it all over that I wouldn't do something different. Oh well I made a mistake. If you want to hang me for it go ahead. But know that you hold at least

some

responsibility for the decision you make even if my death here would be like at least 90% my own fault. So yea, I'm trying to do my best to be a team player here and to get you from compounding my mistake into executing a townie.

[Scumhunter]

Sleepy Krew, I will never play a game with you ever again. If you wonder why you are so bad at this game, its probably because you don't even read the thread and try to listen to town explain themselves. Your loss, I guess. I won't be playing with you again though. If you are scum, I guess I have to say well done? You have successfully contributed nothing of value the entire game and somehow skated by.

[Scumhunter]

Pfft implosion, did you bother to read my explanation? But if I'm going to be executed anyways and no one is reading what I'm writing then fine I'll stop. Pretty pathetic how narrow your guys vision is about how to play this game though.

[Scumhunter]

FUck all of you narrow minded people, omg fake claim must be scum, ignore his explanations. I hope MoI is scum and my "gambit" was the closest thing we had to a chance for winning. There is literally no fucking harm done in claiming like that and retracting so that people follow the uncc'd cop. Notice I'm voting Zang for executioner. I retracted my claim. Cop is uncc'd with a guilty. How fucking dense are you guys? Answer: Pretty fucking dense.

[Scumhunter]

Hurry up someone hammer Zang so I can be done with this shit game. I don't even know why I waste my breath trying to convince you guys. Y'all are so set in your ways its like trying to convince a fundamentalist Christian not to be homophobic.

[Scumhunter]

Hey Zang, notice all the other "scummy" players (i.e. Quilford, SK) are clamoring for the necessity of my execution today. Put 2 + 2 together please, why would it be such a fight for who is lynched today (me or Quilford) if we were both scum? Do what you must, still not scum here.

[Scumhunter]

Medicated Lain, thank you I think I love you. I've been waiting for someone to look past the "omg scummy" part of me counterclaiming and analyzing my possible motives for doing so. Very clear town motives. Suicidal as scum. I was aware of the possibility that I might die, but I was hoping at least at that point that my willingness to die as a townie due to such strong suspicions on MoI might at least make people think twice about their strong town reads on him. Obviously that plan to turn it into a statement SH vs MoI showdown here was thwarted by a cop cc (one that is very very likely real + with a guilty).

This day has turned into a "shut up and kill SH" game if you haven't noticed (within the people spamming this are a few town who aren't thinking about the game past the surface level, but certainly a few mafia as well)

The whole situation sucks because a) im town and b) to go along with a, it means we aren't headed towards killing scum.

Lain, #1 item on your agenda needs to be to help convince Zang not to execute me.

^^

Zang, please listen to Lain!

[Scumhunter]

Lain, honestly I'd love to be checked. I'd welcome it. Any option other than me dying at some point soon wasn't even discussed til you joined the game here. I was hoping to just have Quilford die (praying to god he's scum which im like 90% sure he is) before me in case there are some funky vote dynamics that give scum the kill at night automatically...which there were such mechanics in a previous game like this....

Have you considered the possibility that Zang could be scum gambiting here? Not saying its particularly likely, but essentially town has mislynched twice already...so a little Scum on Scum cop claim would work quite nice with a Fake town claim on MoI (alignment unknown) and would lead to coasting to the endgame . It would be a gambit that would 100% work as scum there, but the simpler solution is more likely the one where Zang is cop and telling the truth. He was at least asking me questions about why I did what I did even if he still has stated the intent to execute me up until now.

[Scumhunter]

Fair enough. I believe Zang too, I didn't find his play all that town prior to his claim, but yea, I think he pretty much has to be telling the truth, particularly given Quilford's claim.

See this is where the problem comes in with your plan to elect Implosion/Zang night executioner.

Implosion has shown 100% intent to have my blood if elected executioner. Zang, looks like he will kill me too (I'd honestly be surprised if I made it through the day here unless he reconsiders what you are saying).
Then what? That happens and we are down a townie, (and likely another tonight imo, I strongly feel scum must have some way to manipulate night actions particularly votes/kills in this setup otherwise it would be way way too many MLs for town to have for it to be balanced...

Maybe the best thing I can do right now is just shut up. I'm convinced no town will listen to me and maybe I should just let your post speak for itself. Maybe people will actually listen to what you say about my potential motivations when its coming from a person that is well not a confirmed liar and all XD.

[Scumhunter]

edit: no town OTHER than you Lain, will listen to me.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, I'll admit that would be an interesting gambit if MoI and I were a scum team here. And yea, its probably something I might try because obviously I'm not averse to doing risky things. However, MoI was pretty much already confirmed town in everyone's eyes, not really sure why it would be necessary/likely to pull a move like that here. If you are suspicious of MoI, hell I was the only one trying to point that out for the longest time. Have you considered maybe I was on to something and just went about it in the wrong way...?

I agree with Lain that the certainty of MoIs "scumhunter is scum" after my claim did seem townish. However, as scum, he would probably believe my claim and realize it was going to be a showdown me vs. him and do everything he could to portray confidence. False confidence is a great weapon for good scum players. Eh, he was at least asking me questions about why I did what I did. I'm obviously a lot less confident in my scum read on him than when I fake-claimed a guilty on him. MoI still is definitely a suspect to me though.

[Scumhunter]

Well implosion, why don't you try reading my posts if you are town? You might learn something. Specifically that I'm town.

[Scumhunter]

Implosion, care to explain why my actions necessarily are scum motivated? Same question to you MoI.

Points of particular interest
-my choice of MoI as a fake guilty
-immediately believing Zang's claim and saying so in-thread without so much as trying to put suspicion on him at all once he claimed.

You are either being immensely close-minded or scum, I hope its the former and that you reconsider...

[Scumhunter]

SK, you are so useless. You don't use logic and hate walls and thats cool and all if you want to play like that...but can you explain to me in simpleton terms why you think I'm definitely scum?

[Scumhunter]

I may have listed MoI in null but thats mostly because I give players who are competent the benefit of the doubt in my mind at first. He was clearly always among the people I suspected though. He's not a town read, I'm still suspicious of him but clearly not as much as when I first faked the guilty on him, partly due to his reaction to that.

aTe is not a scumtell you moron.

[Scumhunter]

lol implosion at that last quote XD

im not calling you scummy, but yea my whole outlook on the game kind of got flipped upside down when quilford (also in obv town status from me originally) was guiltied by Zang (whose claim doesn't seem fake at all to me despite me thinking he was scummy originally). So yea, I'm allowed to change my mind on reads, but no I'm not saying you are scummy necessarily at all. I'm not saying to trust me right now, I'm saying why don't we kill the cop guilty over me. I understand my play is sketchy, but don't think you should be so quick to say that merits a lynch, especially when we have ML'd twice already and I've done the best I can to explain myself.

You can speculate that MoI would be a good target to fake on, but no, you are wrong. He wouldn't be. If I were scum there is no way in hell I'd fake on MoI there. That's just poor play. You can call it wifom but its not. Its poor play. Scum play dictates securing easily attainable mislynches at little risk.

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy yes, this game is a lot different than that other one. Doesn't make me scum though. I felt the specific situation in this game required drastic measures to call out MoI on his scumminess. If I was wrong and he's town, oops, my bad. If he's scum, honestly, the whole reason people are discussing MoI for possible scum now is precisely because I brought it into the limelight that he could be scum. Hell I don't care if people think we are bussing or some retarded shit but at least people are considering the possibility of MoI scum which is something that just wasn't happening before.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, bad time to lurk, you have the execution power...I'd suggest reading ML's explanation of why I'm not scum. Its what I was trying to explain but I guess since I lost credibility with my fake claim you might not have read me say the exact same thing a million times...

Notice how Quilford is benig cryptic about this "paper" business. If he were telling the truth he would have explained exactly what benefit town would gain about him being able to pass this "paper" on. What he is using is a classic scum appeal to fear. Essentially: "Please don't kill me or bad scary things will happen to town! Oh also I'm a miller, but I have another potential negative utility role besides being a miller!"

If you can't comprehend how little sense that makes you should kill yourself IRL. k thx.

[Scumhunter]

I highly suspect that Quilford may have some scum power to be used at night which would explain why he is lobbying to just live through the night. Notice I'm trying to convince you I'm town and still be a part of this game where as Quilford is lobbying just to live through the night. Which of those actions makes more sense for town?

In the previous version of this game, scum had a player who could override night votes for one night and just make the kill himself. I expect Quilford has a power like that or similar.

tldr: holy fuck uncc'd cop has a guilty and the executioner power, the amount of pushback against killing quilford today makes it even more obv to my pov that he must have a good scum night power >.>

[Scumhunter]

Why wouldn't he? I certainly would.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, what do the papers do?

[Scumhunter]

You got this document from someone else or from your role PM?
What is the name of your document?
Do you know what happens if someone gets a hold of all of them?

[Scumhunter]

SH, thank you for demonstrating that you're reading the game.

Cool that makes one of us.

[Scumhunter]

SK, so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty that we should let him live because of some vague description of being able to pass on some document?

Even if YOU are town and have a similar document, there is nothing to guarantee that scum do not also have either documents themselves or at the very least knowledge that documents exist or the ability to receive a fake claim from the mod.

SK, I hope for your own sake you are trolling.

[Scumhunter]

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1)

We don't actually know if he's a cop

2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

Bolded is 110% a slip. Your role PM says you are a miller and you don't think we have a cop in the setup?
Also, your answers to my questions were very very helpful. /sarcasm

[Scumhunter]

SleepyKrew, oh please please explain why I am stupid. I wait with baited breath oh moron of morons. must...stop....feeding...troll

[Scumhunter]

SleepyKrew, you make me lose faith in the human race. Seriously. If there was a cop other than Zang, they wouldn't have claimed by now why exactly? Oh wait! I know! You aren't thinking at all!

I understand the explanation of why I did what I did goes way over your head. Its okay. I don't mind stupid people. Actually I'm friends with quite a few. I just hate it when morons like you pretend like you actually have a clue about anything. That confidence coming from an ignorant fuck is rage-inducing and probably the reason for why genocide happens.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, you are better as town than this to not even consider me being town here.

[Scumhunter]

Zang, can you come in here and hammer your guilty already? k thx.

[Scumhunter]

Fucking terrible Zang. You have the execution vote (I voted for you btw) and you don't even have the fucking balls to make a decision on your own and hammer the fucking obv scum your own fucking guilty. If you are going to execute me because you are going to listen to the fucking scum woh tell you to do it then just do it again you faggot. id expect that shit out of SK but I thought you at least half a brain. YOU HAVE BEEN ELECTED EXECUTIONER. and yes my behavior was suicidial but which alignment cares more about surviving. DINGDINGDING scum. i was trying to do what was necessary. also the fact that you want to execute me/quilford and the other tongiht is so fucking bad. given the pushback and amount of discussion today it shoudl be fucking obvious that one of us (Hint: me) is not fucking mafia. jesus christ lrn 2 logic. im done with you. make up your fucking mind. man up. if you are going to execute me. FUCKING DO IT. COME AT ME BRO.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford's "We don't know if Zang is a cop" is the exact sort of way a scum might slip if Zang/Quilford are doing some strange bussing here. I mean just think what sort of "miller" would NOT beileve an uncc'd cop with a guilty on them. There is no way that thought process crosses his mind here as town. It would cross his mind as something to say if Zang was his mafia buddy though to hedge his bets. Again this is not particularly likely but still. Not saying its necessarily likely Zang is mafia, but if he chooses to a townie he could easily investigate over his guilty report...then yea he's not worthy of our trust even if he is town tbh.

If Zang executes me, (when I flip town which I inevitably will), Do NOT elect him again tonight. In that scenario night votes should go to ML please.

[Scumhunter]

vezok, read the game and shut up.
SH, I'm fucking loling so hard right now. I know I'm an idiot. I fucking embrace it. It's people like YOU that "cause genocide".
Zang, I'll go find that quote.

Yes, people like me do cause genocide. I embrace that.

[Scumhunter]

Why listen to Scumhunter when he is obviously scum trying to save his own skin?

I love how you don't try and discredit my argument itself logically and resort to "omg obv scum"
Pray do tell. Why am I "obvious" scum? Why is my explanation necessarily false.

What if you are wrong? (and you are)

Zang, please reconsider the herp-derpness behind "majority says to kill SH" so lets kill him. You do realize there are mafia in the game right? You know...people who want to kill townies instead of their partners. There are probably 4 such players...so when 6 people want to execute me and 5 want to execute Quilford...did it cross your mind that scum have a strongly vested interest in killing a scummy looking townie.

Also, you have a guilty on Quilford ffs. What more confirmation do you need than that to pull the trigger there. Read ML's wall. You should see it as so incredibly unlikely that Quilford + I could ever possibly be scum together here ML. Then ask yourself, do you believe Quilford is mafia? I mean you are the one with the guilty on him and his claim/reaction have all been complete and utter shit. A vote to execute me is a vote to believe that Quilford is town despite your guilty on him. Which is beyond idiotic really.

[Scumhunter]

Jason, but to him, Zang would be close to 100% confirmed as cop.

Zang, what I'm saying is you'd be making a mistake to kill me today, tonight, or ever. I'm not scum. aTe is not a scumtell. I immediately said I believed your claim. Why would I say that if I were scum. Jesus, you are being dense.

The "town" you are listening to is infiltrated with mafia. You should be usign your own judgment and I can't fathom that I've been so scummy that I outweigh a guilty report you have.

There have to be 4 mafia imo to counteract the tremendous power town have over night kills. (Plus scum had 4 in previous version of this setup) Essentially this is day 3 in this game after 2 bad, bad mislynches. That's the way you should be looking at it really. That's why this decision is important and its ever so vital that you don't lynch me. But whatevs, make up your mind. I'm tired of explaining myself over and over again if you aren't going to listen.

It's 5 to 5 without you Zang. You hold the power. Man up. Make the decision (hopefully the right one please) and be done with it. Lets go. This is getting tiresome here.

[Scumhunter]

hey MoI, if I apologize to you for faking a guilty on you will you consider moving your execution vote to Quilford over me seeing as you think he's mafia anyways apparently... If you are town, you won't regret it.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, what part of my explanation for why I fake claimed did you not understand?

[Scumhunter]

Because I very very much thought he was scum and I thought there was no chance of bringing any relevant attention on that into the town's mind without making it the center of attention in any way I could.

I don't get why fake claiming necessarily has to be such a big deal. I retracted my claim. We have an uncc'd cop with a guilty. Quilford should have been executed several days ago. The fact I'm being considered for execution over a cop guilty shows how closeminded town is to MOTIVATION behind actions which is where truely reliable tells come from.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, you can cling to this paper talk as a distraction tactic all you want but it doesn't change the facts:

-The uncc'd cop has a guilty on you.
-You claimed miller, which you would have claimed early d1 if you really were a miller.
-You are scum.
-Die.

Refusal for anyone to accept these facts I will consider blatant trolling.

[Scumhunter]

Fairly impressive tunnel Cosca. You should consider being an architect. There is one flaw in your argument. You are basing your train of thought on the presupposition that I'm scum. Your argument insists upon itself and if you look at the real heart of it, the case boils down to you not believing my motivations for my actions. Can't do much more to convince you than I already have, but you are wrong about me and you would do well to reconsider cases and read my iso with the idea even for a second that I'm definitely town and see if my actions make sense then.

[Scumhunter]

In other words, all your reads are explained from the pov that MoI and I are scum partners somehow (which is just such a stupid theory really..I've explained why so many times now, but yea you have me written off for scum so you aren't listening to what I'm saying). You are taking any comments you can find from me or MoI and using them to fit to your case. Its logical fail. Looking back to find quotes to support your hunch is bad. You will see what you want to see and find evidence to supprt whatever hunch you have doing it that way. Lesson to learn. For the record, Cosca, I think you are town, I also think MoI is scum. His absence at this critical juncture of the game is noted. He's find letting town implode upon itself here, kill me, and then swoop in on the attack against you tomorrow Cosca when I flip town. I hope you aren't blindsided by that when it happens.

[Scumhunter]

hes tunneling on an idea. The idea that me and MoI are both scum together which makes close to 0 sense. MoI was practically confirmed town in most peoples pov BEFORE i faked my report. The idea of that being a gambit is a very very far out idea tbh

[Scumhunter]

i dont care that hes v/la on weekends. even when he was here late last week MoI was just taking a back seat and not being engaged in the game. i still say he's scum. (omg super pro bus going on right here!!)

[Scumhunter]

I voted for MedicatedLain for night executioner, aka the obvious town that none of you were listening to yesterday.

Also, how the hell did Zang die.

And Quilford...um...what? You were pushing so hard on me and all of a sudden you think im town?

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, can you explain what meta you have on me that makes you think I'm town? Also you are still the cop's guilty...so...

[Scumhunter]

vezok being an idiot is null.
Quil, did you forget all the AtEs and the FAKE COP?

aTe is not a scumtell. I explained over 9000 times why I faked cop. Maybe go read the last couple posts of our dead town leader as you clearly aren't reading anything I'm writing.

[Scumhunter]

I am the hero this city deserves.

vote: Scumhunter

[Scumhunter]

vote me so I can kill Quilford plz. If there is another day of this "lol omg i need to pass on papers" crap its almost like the mod is trolling me here...

[Scumhunter]

Lying about being a cop can be a great motive to get the game moving in a new direction. It has happened in many games that I have been in, and generally been at the very least a great assistance in getting a topic to happen. When I had read up to the page where SH had claimed MOI was scum, SK was already tossing around the idea of MOI for executioner for a second night, and from what I had read of MOI, I didn't think he was even close to town, much less confirmed... see my ISO #26 for reasoning. Yet meanwhile, the feel of the game up to that point, was that MOI was confirmed town... something had to be done to get a view on MOI... and if he were scum, and SH simply had made a post saying "I think MOI is scummy," then not only would he be risking getting killed if MOI had been elected a second night, but I don't think anyone in this town would have listened at all. That's why the cop claim seemed like a really good idea to me, personally.

And honestly, if he were scum, why would he have backed down from the cop claim? Staying with that claim would bring in a question of sanity, and he would have stood a chance, albeit small, of having Zang questioned as executioner, and in judgement. He backed down, simply to explain why he pushed on MOI at all, which seems so town driven I just can't imagine what the people who are actually town involved in this are really thinking. Give SH one more ISO, and tell me this doesn't make sense folk!

In the end, it certainly isn't worth an investigation on a townie to clear SH, I don't believe that's the answer. But rather, looking at the situation logically, and at least first testing data that involves a guilty cop result, we can better deduce if we are killing a townie or scum. Because if quil is indeed scum, do you really see him pushing SH's death this hard?

This dude knew what he was talking about ^^

[Scumhunter]

Hey town! Do we want to kill the scum now? I'd very much like for the scum to die, what about you guys?!!!!

[Scumhunter]

Hi Cosca, want to kill Quilford now?!!!!!

[Scumhunter]

Quilford, so you are saying aTe = me being town. In my only scum game on here I did massive amounts of aTe as well...

Anyways, Quilford, if you are a miller, thats incredibly bad luck for us, but...

[Scumhunter]

i dont give a fuck about fatlikepig's meta. Hey MoI you fag you going to read ML's post about how Im town. Oh no of course not, because you are still SCUM.

[Scumhunter]

Implosion ok let me get this straight ML was your strongest town read. He insisted I was town. And you say I need to die, You are the fucking most obvious scum ever or you are a terrible piece of shit scum. VOTE ME FOR EXECUTIONER YOU MOTHER FUCKERS. ML SAID I WAS TOWN. THIS GAME HAS BEEN GOING NOWHERE FOREVER. IM GIVING YOU AN OPTION TO TURN IT AROUND.

[Scumhunter]

implosion is scum, who else. LISTEN TO ML I R TOWN VOTE ME FOR EXECUTIONER FTW

[Scumhunter]

sorry was drunk. town is retarded though.

[Scumhunter]

Hi. ML gave a compelling case for why I'm town. Then he died. Town, you haz brains or no?

[Scumhunter]

By the way, Implosion, you claim to have not gotten the night kill power even though the large vast majority said they gave it to you. How the fuck can we accept that on face value? The more I think about it the more I think you are scum now, you got the night kill power, and killed ML, but whatevs.

If you thought ML was towny enough to warrant giving your night kill vote to, yet you still want my blood even though he practically insisted I was town.

Tragedy, Jason: you guys are town. We need to form a voting block for someone to kill Quilford. SK, as much or a moron as he is known to be, if he is town this game it would take being a VI to a whole new level really so he still should be scum really. Hell I bet MoI is still scum too, but that shit isn't happening today either.

Tragedy/Jason: I don't need personally to have the executioner power, but I am very very opposed to any of these players having that power today:
-implosion
-Quilford
-MoI
-SK

Time for town to get their shit together. Hello people. We can still do this. This game has been going terribly. Maybe you should take a look at whose hands you have been putting the game's powers into over and over, the fucking scum!

[Scumhunter]

honestly implosion, if you are town, then you deserve to lose so ok. THe only reason I say you are scum now is that you want to execute me (a townie) over a confirmed cop's guilty (Quilford). So yea, that makes you either a moron or scum. I don't think you are a moron....

[Scumhunter]

unvote, vote vezok

Ill be dropping every 2 days to avoid being replaced. I'm not putting any more effort into this game because town is not putting in any effort to think about motivation behind my actions. Terrible play, very pathetic. My vote is for vezok for saying he will execute Quilford. Bye.

[Scumhunter]

When I flip town, assuming the game doesn't end...Night execution votes will go to Tragedy so that she can kill Quilford. Pretty sure its gg though.

unvote, vote implosion

Lets go, lets end this shit show.

[Scumhunter]

SK, I hope Quilford stole your papers from you, you dumb fuck.

[Scumhunter]

Can I get modkilled already, jesus fucking christ this game is taking years of my life.

[Scumhunter]

And leave some pour soul the horror of playing with you SK. I'd rather take one for the mod and for all of humanity than impose that upon someone.

[Scumhunter]

MoI, sure go ahead and blacklist me for faking a guilty on you when you were scum. Yea definitely playing against my win condition right there. I explained my actions a million fucking times, It was the only chance in hell town had of lynching you at any in point in time this game.

ML was the only competent town player this game, although Cosca and Vezok did ok.

SK, no words can explain how bad you played.