Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[Medicated Lain]

Hi there folk!

ML replacing in here. I've only read about the first 5 pages so far.. and I haven't read anything on the recent pages at all yet, so bare with me while I adjust into this!

[Medicated Lain]

15 pages into, plus these most recent pages since I posted... Well this sure is interesting so far. Firstly, how long do we have to figure out day 2? I'm new to this type of mafia, but it sure seems intriguing. CC who played before me seemed to have a completely different method of madness than I would have chosen.

SK, why am I giving the document to you? I suspect it's written somewhere along the way, but there's still nearly 20 pages before I am caught up, and I will be a bit more busy until about Monday. Can I get confirmation from at least one more player, preferably Zang or Jason... since they are currently highest on my trust list at the moment. Really anyone will do though. Anyways, confirmation that this is a good idea? Maybe a quick explanation in case I don't have time to catch up before day one ends... don't know what kind of time frame we are looking at for that.

So it looks like our kill for the night is decided, have we also decided who will be the executioner?

One thing I'm wondering here... I'm only 15 pages into, but does anyone else find it interesting how seriously Vez has been taking this game? If I were to see those posts by any other player, I would think obvtown... but this is very different from the Vez I have seen. Granted I have only played one game with him, but has anything been said there?

[Medicated Lain]

Yeah, I'll do the hammer no problem. I return back to a position of heavy availability tomorrow, Monday... I will do it when I am there.

[Medicated Lain]

Sorry folk, I was expecting to be able to post when I got home last night, but my plane was late, and I didn't even make it to my final destination until 11:30 this morning! aaahhh.. anyways...

vote: zang

[Medicated Lain]

Unless the mod lied to me, there will be no problems there. I don't see why he would lie about that kind of thing, so I suspect no problems at all. I have read all pages since I have joined, and up to 20, suspecting I will be done by tonight or tomorrow assuming time prevails. Sorry for the busy intro.

[Medicated Lain]

eerrr just read page 22... just incase:

unvote, vote:zang

[Medicated Lain]

All proven. Now in the mean time, I am not completely caught up.. on page 28, but I need to say, SK is my #1 scum read, and Zang is my #1 town read. I don't know how much this counts for, but I think it would be a VERY good idea for Zang to kill SK. Though I have read and see this is mostly decided by the town... based on some information I have confirmed, I think it could be vitally important that SK die before night hits. In the end, since I don't want to say more on why, I understand if you don't listen, but I 100% guarantee it will be positive for town if SK dies before night falls.

[Medicated Lain]

The best I can say, is it has to do with papers. Assuming that SK is not killed, I will explain 100% tomorrow. If SK is killed, then I believe there will be no need for an explanation.. if there is, I will explain, assuming it is approved of.

[Medicated Lain]

I am still on page 28... I should have tons of time today though, not to mention I've read since I replaced in... so less than 10 pages to go! Did I miss the guilty report on Sleepy? Given that day two started and I haven't seen that yet...

When I am done reading, I will give you guys a scummeter list of course.. but I wonder if I should wait on any major opinions/cases etc. until tomorrow, given that the day is nearly done? This is my first time playing execution mafia, but based on how I see it, it seems like town consensus is generally a very important aspect.

Also, I get the feeling that at least half of this town will hate me, since I generally don't use quotes, and just reference to where I am talking... jebus you guys really love your quotes in this town!

[Medicated Lain]

On page 32 now. Retracting statement on killing Sleepykrew. He may be a moron, but the scum read is turning more and more into VI with every post. There are far more pressing matters, I understand now.

Ugh CC did not play how I would have. For what ever reasons, he passed his papers to SK in the night. To those who started with papers: it is not a nightly action that can be performed every night, items are simply items, once passed, they leave your hands, i confirmed this with the mod, and no longer have any papers. I believe this goes in hand with what someone said earlier... I did not take note of who said it, but whoever it was, could you verify that you said this: if someone with papers is killed, they probably transfer to the killing person.
I believed that SK was scum, and I did not want them to get out of sight. I fail to see who else in this game would be stupid enough to give SK papers. But since he has them, I felt it might be better for the town to know.

SK: If you are town, why in hell were you considering faking a cop OR a roleblocker? Reference to posts #769 and #772. I can not imagine any scum being stupid enough to just openly claim considering faking TWO different roles. I am calling for SK to claim, and that I will not retract no matter what. I want more pressure to come from the rest of the town. SK's play is detrimental to town whether he is scum or town, and I likely believe he is just stupid town. But given the nature of this game, I think the ones that we don't trust, are the ones we need to learn the most about.... that is perhaps the only respect I can agree with how CC played my role.

I will post who I think should die today after I am 100% read up, however, I do not think it is beneficial to have the same executioner more than once. That said, as far as I read, I intend to vote for implosion for night executioner, and I believe that will stay solid.

[Medicated Lain]

Alright, caught up, and with tons to say. Given the amount of information there is, I am going to attempt to keep this concise. First things first, my reads before I woke up today.. AKA before anything with any cop claims:

Vezokpiraka - scummy
MagnaofIllusion - very scummy
jasonT1981 - not enough to go on
Zang - super town
Quilford - town
Scumhunter fatlikepig - town
SleepyKrew - scummiest
Cosca Iceguy kondi2424 - very town (by the way Cosca, you are awesome at laying out arguments.. if you are scum, I'm scared!)
implosion - super town
Tragedy ChaosOmega - generally town, but not enough to confirm

Main point: I suspected MOI might be scum from the beginning, and by page 28, was scared to approach how to get the town to believe this, because it generally felt like MOI was confirmed as town in most player's eyes. Main tipping point for MOI: why would anyone not want to be day executioner? Felt like a heavy plea to the town, and just trying to keep any accusations off. I have not agreed with most anything MOI has said, and in particular with the giant fiasco between him and Cosca.... Cosca made a decent case, and MOI just fell over board, felt like a scum player just pointing out a victim and just pushing where ever any case at all could be made.

And then I woke up today, and read... wow this game really is a mindfuck, implosion definitely has the right user name to be in this game hehe.
First:

Quilford mentioned the US documents for the first time on August 18th. CC mentioned US documents back in July, so Quilford has no claim on the word alone.

Stupid play on CC's fault.. could have been used for confirmation on someone otherwise, since I don't believe any scum would start out with a document.

Let's think about things on the grand scheme here: we will have 10 players alive tonight. One is town with two votes at night, mafia have two votes at night.
A. Assume scum die today, we had 3 scum: 4 votes for scum. 9 votes for town.
B. Assume scum die today, we had 4 scum: 6 votes for scum. 8 votes for town
C. Assume town die today, we have 3 scum: 6 votes for scum, 8 votes for town.
D. Assume town die today, we have 4 scum: 8 votes for scum, 8 votes for town.... well this is interesting... if there is a tie, mod confirmed that there is no kill, correct?
I believe there is a possibility that we have 4 scum, not definite, but possible.

HOWEVER:

If Quil turns out to Miller, then I can't possibly believe that we have a 4 person mafia, and we should be in situation C, and if Quil is mafia then we are either in situation A. or B... the cool thing is, assuming we stick together and vote well, town seem to have no problem keeping control of both the day and night kill.

Case that developed since the cop situation.

Cosca and MOI have epic battle.
SH claims guilty result on MOI.
Zang claims guilty on Quil.
Quil claims miller immediately.
SH backs off, says it was a fake, but was convinced MOI is scum.

What this means about Zang/Quil:
Zang definitely had a correct hit. Now that SH backed down, I see no reason at all to doubt any issues with sanity...

unless anyone else wants to claim cop now. This is a last chance call, after this I will be pressing hard for any cop claims after this to be executed.

Is Quil mafia or miller? 50/50 chance, no way to prove since CC mentioned documents first. I think it is possible that Quil is town, but not willing to risk the chance. If he is miller, there is no way I can see this as a 4 person mafia game, therefore killing Quil is best for the town.

My opinion on SH/MOI:
If SH is town, as I strongly believe he is, then I came in this game at the absolute perfect time. Honestly, when I started reading this morning, and saw MOI's posts, I was dead convinced that MOI was scum fooling everyone in town. He had the kill last night, and killed Fitz. When Fitz was alive, he was definitely low on my list to kill. But the town seemed so convinced, and there was even some mention of making MOI night kill again. If MOI got night kill, and I was the only one to stand up against him, then I suspected MOI would likely kill me.
And then....
SH claimed guilty on MOI. I didn't know if I believed SH, but still wanted MOI to die immediately because of it. It was a relief to see I was not the only one that thought that MOI needs to die, and I still believe that MOI should be killed in the night, after Quil, regardless of result on Quil, because MOI has a very scummy way about him. If asked for a case I will provide.

Point:

SH claimed a guilty on a player who seemed incredibly scummy, but felt like they had a high leverage on the town. I can understand why SH would do this as town, but could not understand why he would draw this light to himself as scum, given that the argument was between Cosca and MOI. SH is pretty much verified town to me.

Decisions:

Quil should die today. If not Quil, then I would kill MOI.
For night: I will vote for Implosion if Implosion agrees that MOI should die. Do you agree, Implosion? Otherwise I will look to create a block with SH and whomever else agrees that MOI needs to die, and form a group there.

Questions/Comments:

MOI: what was scummy about Fitz at all?
SK: So you did not know who gave you the papers, it just said they had been passed to you? Page 31, post #772 is the roleblocker thing I am talking about, please confirm what you meant if not a possible fake claim. Also, are you willing to claim as I have asked?
Implosion, Tragedy, Jason: can I see your general reads for all players?
Vezok: where are you? What do you think of today's happenings?

[Medicated Lain]

I would also be willing to vote for Zang tonight, upon thinking about it... After considering what i posted before, I would rather give confirmed town the kill. So: Zang, Implosion, who would you kill tonight? (hint: the correct answer is MOI, unless proof can be shown to me why it would be bad.)
Another factor is: we have a living cop, alignments can be checked on players, assuming we secure the votes for tonight, it is EASY to check about SH. Particularly considering that we can secure a town kill for both night and day given the numbers. Zang should be at no risk at all, if my understanding of the rules, and interpretation of the situation is correct. I am not suggesting that we NEED to check SH, personally I would be checking one of our iffy town members like vezok or SK.. but I leave the investigation choice in the hands of zang, I need not know what you will do.

[Medicated Lain]

Of course, but if no other cops come out, then there's no way I'd believe we're placed in a game with no cops. Given Zang's play, even before coming out as a cop, I was convinced he was pro town, so I'm not willing to consider this any what seriously right now. I just don't really think it's possible.

[Medicated Lain]

Just let the rest of the town think and talk for a while, and chill out a bit. You made a move that turned out shady... but I think logic can come through, and I don't think everyone is as against you, as you may feel, assuming you are scum, don't forget that would mean that it is the actual role of 3-4 of these players to try to kill you, which I feel is likely the case.. a scum led idea. Though rest of the town, feel free to argue with me on this. I want what is best for this town.

I guess I am thinking more as time goes by... It is interesting how MOI attacked back after SH's gambit... as if there wasn't even a question... the more I think.. I could see that sort of response coming from town much more easily than from scum... but there is still the earlier play. Perhaps I am becoming less dead set on the MOI kill. So my question still stands, Zang, implosion, who would you kill tonight?

[Medicated Lain]

eeerrr corrected version:
Just let the rest of the town think and talk for a while, and chill out a bit. You made a move that turned out shady... but I think logic can come through, and I don't think everyone is as against you, as you may feel, assuming you are town, don't forget that would mean that it is the actual role of 3-4 of these players to try to kill you, which I feel is likely the case.. a scum led idea happening.. it's opportunistic. Though rest of the town, feel free to argue with me on this. I want what is best for this town.

I guess I am thinking more as time goes by... It is interesting how MOI attacked back after SH's gambit... as if there wasn't even a question... the more I think.. I could see that sort of response coming from town much more easily than from scum... but there is still the earlier play. Perhaps I am becoming less dead set on the MOI kill. So my question still stands, Zang, implosion, who would you kill tonight?

[Medicated Lain]

The fact of the matter is, we have a cop that has a guilty on Quil, no matter what, nothing will change that, and that means there is absolutely no other means for checking Quil's status in this game. I see no reason why it makes sense to let Quil live to night. Quil saying that SH should die first honestly likely further proves SH's innocence without any investigation at all.

Read this:

Does anyone honestly think that a mafia member would sincerely throw another mafia member under the wheel so easily on day two?
Assume Quil is mafia and SH is not. Quil knows his death is coming, and is throwing a townie under the wheel before he dies. Seems likely.
Assume that Quil and SH are both mafia. Then Quil is asking us to kill off two mafia members. This is incredibly unlikely.
Assume that Quil is a miller and SH is mafia/town. Then quil is just another opinion in the crowd with no information, and the SH case can be figured out later through investigation if necessary.. but I honestly can't see why SH would throw himself on the line to get attention on a player that needed attention on them.

How does it make any sense to leave quill alive to night, when it will result in so much information first? If Quil were honestly town, he would understand this and would be telling us to kill him first, for the information. I feel pretty sure with this that Quil is indeed scum, and not a Miller, because of this request.

Meanwhile, I have proven to you all with numbers, that we are guaranteed a night kill in our favor so long as we stick together, which means our cop isn't even in danger. I can not understand any town logic for killing SH right now, when MOI, SK, and Vez are around. Any of those three is just immensely better a choice for death tonight.
I have seen that many of you agree about SK's play, he is not helping the town, in fact he is hurting it very badly. I don't trust any opinion that he has, and he should not survive to end game. SK honestly could be scum... and if he isn't, could you imagine when mafia start getting control of the night kills, would they ever once think to kill SK? Unless SK wants to give proof as to who he is, I do not want him alive. MOI hasn't made any sense this whole day, and I don't understand his night kill at all. Vez played hard at the start to be executioner, and it felt incredibly out of play for the style I have seen of him, and then as soon as the day was over, just disappeared into the shadows. Why would a player who threw himself on the line to get attention to a player who seemed to be fooling the town make sense at all than any of these three other players? Also note that it is just SK and Quil that are asking for SH's death first. What sense does it make, you tell me.

[Medicated Lain]

Errr sorry about my comment on it just being SK and Quil stating that, I see a lot of people want SH dead... but can I see at least one of you, Tragedy, Zang, Implosion, argue what is wrong with my logic? I am all ears, but I want to hear how it makes any more sense after what I have said? Zang, you need to think about this.

[Medicated Lain]

Vitally important:

Think about this logically people: SK stated earlier that he believes that papers pass on to the killer when someone dies, he verified this last page. So if that's true SK: then tell me why you believe that Quil should be allowed to pass on these papers to a player of choice, if you believe that Zang would receive them automatically with killing? Given that I have learned that papers are an item that can only be passed on, and it is not a night ability to choose someone to show them to, it seems highly likely that that it is true that papers will pass on to the killer, meaning zang would receive them. SK has now verified that he has the papers that I had originally. Now Quil also has papers.

What if:

both Quil and SK are scum with at least a third person. Both of them pass their documents to the third mafia player, and then mafia probably has a majority of the papers.. I don't know how many there are, but I would imagine about 3. I would rather the papers go away entirely, than to risk having a majority of them end up in mafia hands.

What do you all have to say to this?

[Medicated Lain]

He doesn't, but my point is I would rather risk losing the papers than risk the possibility of all of them going into scum hands. What does everyone have to say? I don't know if you are scum or not, I don't even know if you have papers or not, it may even just be a gambit to get you to stay alive for one more night for some reason.

[Medicated Lain]

Aaaahhhh I am so dying for anyone to reply! heh.

One more theory to spout: Why would scum have a document? If town started out with every document... then wouldn't it make sense for town to simply discuss putting all the papers into one place as soon as possible? Perhaps scum have one, to block that from occurring. I believe that everyone with a document should pass them to Zang tonight.
The main idea being, we can see how many papers are collected, and ask who sent them in. SK would be forced to give up the one he has, because if everyone that sends them in comes forth, then we should definitely lynch him for not sending it in. Further more, if the idea that the paper is passed to the executor is true, and Zang gets them all, then something will happen, I believe it will be good for whichever side collects them all. Assuming the theory is wrong, then we wouldn't even have to worry about papers anymore.. although there is the possibility that quil is lying, and another scum player has a paper. The outcome of this scenario seems very good to me.

[Medicated Lain]

No, you need to die today. Why would SH need to be executed the paper isn't passed on? Worse that happens, is we lose something happening... but it would mean we don't have to worry about scum getting a hold of that.

[Medicated Lain]

If it is vitally important to the game, then I am sure the papers will go somewhere. Otherwise, there is no reason to trust whose hands you would put the papers in, because there is a 50/50 chance that you are lying to us.
Scum do not get to choose who they kill in this game, so they need to come up with whatever ways they can to push kills on town. If Quil dies and is mafia, what do you guys think the chances that SH is mafia? I'd say just about 0. Quil is likely pushing a town kill before his own demise.

[Medicated Lain]

Because there is a guilty on you, and we have no way to prove that you are not lying about being a miller, other than to kill you. You are either a miller, or scum. And if you are a miller, it is easier to assume that there is a 3 person scum team, have you been reading anything I've said here?

[Medicated Lain]

I also considered a Rolecop. But I think the chance is low, and agree that Scumhunter seems o so scumtastic.

This is what I am talking about SK, what did you mean by this post?

More for SK: How am I fence sitting exactly?
Of course my ideas are changing, I just read about 40 pages of game and then jumped right in at about the craziest point possible! Then I start communicating ideas... you think it's bad to theorize any possibility you can think of? We are not 100% certain on the info given to us, so we have to think of what possible choices make the most sense to benefit the town.
Also SK, of course it happened after the guilty, a guilty changes the way you think about things, if it doesn't, then please don't play this game.

Looking at everything that SK is saying right now, my scumdar on SK is going through the roof.

Quilford #1002 response: A cop guilty can NEVER be challenged. The only way that we have to know if you are scum or not is to lynch you. That is it. Based on if you are a Miller, or scum, we can likely make better assumptions about the shape of our town.
It explains perfectly why you must die today! If you are scum, then you either do or do not have papers. If you do, then there's no way you are passing them to town, you are lying to us, and scum will still be holding on, and we will still be trying to keep them away from the scum. If you don't have papers, then this is likely a giant gambit, and you are just pushing for a town death, before your own, because this is how mafia can kill in this game until the town gets smaller. The more you say, the more convinced I am.

Stuff for Cosca: Why does it make sense to vote for someone in the night who is likely town, rather than someone who is definitely town?
Also, I agree that MOI could be scum, but I have already read your posts on the busing theory, and I just find it hard to believe. If MOI actually had a case against him at the time this happened, it would make sense, but it literally came when no one in town had any suspicion on MOI at all, which is the fitting time for someone to do such a fake claim.
He defended himself, and everyone attacked him further....Let's think about that part further, shall we? 3-4 scum in this game. I was the only one that truly started defending SH at all. What do you think the chances are, that there 2-3 scum partners of SH are all pushing the kill on him as hard as possible? It's so obviously scum driven.

One more thing that is worth considering, is that I JUST joined this game last week, and read through all 41 pages of the game within that spam of time. I probably have a much clearer picture of the game as a whole than most of you, unless anyone has been re-reading recently.

Last thing of importance: I would like to vote for Zang as night executor, who does every one else want to vote?

[Medicated Lain]

Wow SK, you need to chill out a bit there.

Alright, I read again, I can see you were responding to MOI now.. but since just several posts before, you had said

You know what's funny? I was planning on faking guilties on Cosca and Scumhunter. lol

I thought you were continuing on that.

How am I fence sitting? You yelling that it is happening, doesn't mean that it is so. I don't know who is scum in this game, I can just speculate, you're really up there on my scumdar, and there is no way in hell that I want you to survive this game unless there is some really good reason that can be shown to me. I don't see how that's fence sitting.
And I told you, I just joined into a game 35 pages in progress, and just started communicating my thoughts to everyone, What changed? Time did. I thought about things, and quil responded to what I was saying, and I responded with logical responses. If it made sense to trust Quil for the benefit of the town, then I would, but it doesn't.

[Medicated Lain]

I say that I don't know if you are scum or an idiot. As I read through the game, the first 22 pages had me convinced you were scum, and then you just looked like an idiot, but part of the reason you looked like an idiot was that I thought you were confessing faking two different claims, which you just proved to me wasn't the case, and your opinions on how this day should play out certainly looked scummy again. Do I think that you're scum? Yeah, the chances are certainly stronger with you than most the players here. Do I think that you dying would benefit the town? Absolutely. I haven't wavered on that opinion for a second, I dare you to show me where I have.

[Medicated Lain]

Firstly, I see now that I skimmed over some pages a little too fast. I looked back and see that SK was the first one to claim anything with papers at all. I do believe that it is possible that one scum member has papers, and I think we will gain better info if Quilford dies in the day today rather than tonight.
But alright SK, your stance looks alright for now. However, just so you know, changing an opinion does not count as fence sitting! Not solidly choosing one way or the other is. However, I don't know what anyone's role in this game is, so if you expect me to be 100% convinced that ANYONE is scum or town... well then you are going to think I am fence sitting all game.
The fact that the mod didn't respond to your question at all SK, I think means that there will be no information released about the papers in the thread.

Alright MOI, you want my case.

so you see Scum MoI passing up a chance to kill Town Lain the claimed Paperholder and Doublevoter or Town Sleepy the claimed Paperholder and Power role who I had previously listed as my top two scum reads?

Everyone knew you were going to be nigh executioner, if you killed a claimed pro town role on night one, of course it would be your death bed today!
A bigger question would be, if you sincerely believe that either SK or I were actually scum, as you have just listed we were some of your top reads, then why would you NOT have killed either of us? You had the opportunity, and if you really thought that we were scum, then I assume you would have killed one of us. So why didn't you? As scum, it makes sense, because you would know that having killed a power role that claimed out, everyone would be after you next day. As town, I cannot understand why you wouldn't kill us.

Now on the other hand, you killed havingfitz.
HF didn't seem scummy in the slightest to me. He was considering information being presented, and not making rash decisions, which is something I consider a town tell. Rest of the town: Did you think HF looked like scum?
However...

A NOTE FOR DAYS GOING FORWARD

–

In case I die before Day 2 starts …

the following

WILL

be the procedure to start out the Day each morning

.

You are annoyingly pretentious. You don't think enough of the people you play with to follow their opinion/wishes if you were to be elected executioner but you have no problem doling out instructions "in case" you die before Day 2 start.

VOTE: vezokpiraka for the moment based on his willingness to abide by the majority opinion.

and

I'm fine with giving my night vote to MoI....pretentious or not I've at least played with him before (unlike most of the others in here) and

assuming he is town

his gut is as good as anyone else's.

HF was the one player in this game who was willing to question your ideas, and wonder about you. We already know that you killed HF, unlike a regular mafia game.. the question in this game is is why? And this is the answer that I see.

[Medicated Lain]

Oh I bet you all will miss me so much! I will generally be away for the weekend.

[Medicated Lain]

SK truly is an idiot. Nothing else need be said here for now.

[Medicated Lain]

I am still in travels and do not have time to answer things that I want to.

Zang, you have a cop guilty. It is best to listen to a guilty, before trying to take out someone who had no case at all against them at the beginning of the day, and did one thing, a fake cop claim, that brought attention to them, which led to half the town believing that they, instead, should be killed.

Quil does have papers, I know now that he is not lying about this. But you asked before about my saying that only innocent people have papers.. you can see I later stated that scum could have them, because if everyone that is town has them, what would stop the town from just organizing straight off the bat to get all of them? These are both theories, and should be open to either possibility.

If you receive the papers, then we have papers in town hands. Otherwise, if Quil is scum, you are risking the papers getting into scum hands. If you do not receive the papers when Quil dies, then we shouldn`t have to worry about them anymore. Quil keeps stressing the IMPORTANCE of papers, but that is something that is Quil`s opinion, that is not what the mod had said about the papers. There is simply something that will happen... my speculation was that the side that collects them will get an extra kill... but that is just a speculation.

You also said to me that I should state before a theory, that it is indeed just a theory.. but is that not redundant? Every piece of information in this game that is not from the mod is just a theory or opinion on some level or another... unless it involves quoting something someone has said. Further more, a game with a slightly bastard theme could even mean that not all of the mod information are facts either. A guilty on a player with a miller claim just cannot be trusted. If I make a mistake, I will let you know, otherwise, I am just adding theories to the pot, like everyone else in this game.

SH is making a lot of sense about deciding the kills. If you just follow majority all the time, then you are giving the mafia a higher chance of making a kill, because there are 3-4 of them that are part of these lists. If you kill Quilford first, and he is scum, ask what sense it makes for SH to be scum. If you kill SH first, you could still ask that question of Quil, but the guilty result on him will never change, and we will never be able to fully trust him, whereas SH still has the ability to be proven otherwise.

Also, people fake claim sometimes, and it is not scummy. SH`s mistake was not telling us sooner that he was lying, to get some attention on to MOI. But don`t try to pretend that MOI has convinced this game he is town anymore, the biggest voice for MOI is SK, and the majority have also declared and agreed that he is an idiot. Meanwhile, SH, Cosca, and myself all have suspicions about MOI, how can you consider this nearly confirmed?

[Medicated Lain]

SH, Cosca, and ML. Such a paragon of townieness that is.
What makes you so sure Quil has papers all of a sudden?

SK, if you can read the following post of quil's and honestly have any doubt that quil has papers, then you have me wondering about you all over again.
This post is why:

I have an important US document. I know that if a player gets hold of all of them, something will happen. I can pass it on to another person at night if I want to.

- loosely paraphrased from role pm

Hey ML, why did you decide to reveal that CC had passed on your papers? I'd like to see the thought process behind this.

I revealed why, partially because of a mistake on my part, and partially because I didn't understand something occurred.
The mistake was that I didn't see your post about having a paper to begin with, I think I accidentally skipped that whole page actually. You mentioned papers before anyone else did.. and had I of seen that, it would have changed how I approached you. ISO #6:

All proven. Now in the mean time, I am not completely caught up.. on page 28, but I need to say, SK is my #1 scum read, and Zang is my #1 town read. I don't know how much this counts for, but I think it would be a VERY good idea for Zang to kill SK. Though I have read and see this is mostly decided by the town... based on some information I have confirmed, I think it could be vitally important that SK die before night hits. In the end, since I don't want to say more on why, I understand if you don't listen, but I 100% guarantee it will be positive for town if SK dies before night falls.

is what I thought of the situation by the time I was up to page #28. Your general play seemed very scummy up to that point. I was assuming you were scum, and would move the papers to a scum partner, so I wanted the papers out of your hands. which is why I thought it was urgent that you die.
Note on above: I don't think you are verified town.. but I find it hard to believe that two scum members would have papers. For now, Quil has a guilty, so the chances that he is scum are much higher than you... especially after clarifying later things, that we did.

As for what I didn't understand: Also, You asked me to give you my papers when I first joined.. at that point I didn't know that you already had mine, I had to confirm some stuff with the mod. Reference can be seen in ISO #1 of mine. I mentioned above why ISO #6 happened. Then ISO #9:

Ugh CC did not play how I would have. For what ever reasons, he passed his papers to SK in the night. To those who started with papers: it is not a nightly action that can be performed every night, items are simply items, once passed, they leave your hands, i confirmed this with the mod, and no longer have any papers. I believe this goes in hand with what someone said earlier... I did not take note of who said it, but whoever it was, could you verify that you said this: if someone with papers is killed, they probably transfer to the killing person.
I believed that SK was scum, and I did not want them to get out of sight. I fail to see who else in this game would be stupid enough to give SK papers. But since he has them, I felt it might be better for the town to know.

occurred because I realized you had asked me for my papers at the beginning of the day, despite the fact I learned that CC already gave them to you. I wanted confirmation as to what was happening, which you still never answered.. when you received my papers, did it tell you who they came from? Also at that point, I still hadn't seen your paper post. That didn't occur until much later, ISO #26:

Firstly, I see now that I skimmed over some pages a little too fast. I looked back and see that SK was the first one to claim anything with papers at all. I do believe that it is possible that one scum member has papers, and I think we will gain better info if Quilford dies in the day today rather than tonight.

I was doing an ISO on you so I could show how scummy you were, and why you needed to die, when I noticed the post about the papers that I had missed.

Now, for those who question why scum would have papers:

If only town had papers, then what would stop them from organizing as soon as possible, (like we are trying now) to put all the papers in one place? Everyone with papers could just claim that, and decide a person to give them to. It makes sense that someone of a different alliance would have them, to prevent that from happening. This also makes me heavily believe that papers will be passed to the person that kills someone with them, because if both sides have papers, then like quil says himself, why would scum give them up? I believe likewise could be said about town... that they would only give papers to someone is confirmed town, so how else would any scum be able to obtain them?

It seems to me, that if we assume both that only town has papers to begin with, and that the papers are NOT passed with death, it states that only town can actually use the papers.

I do not believe is the case. This is another reason why I think it is best to kill quil in the day. There is no argument as to whether he is dying or not, but we get more value out of the information when he dies with a paper. Otherwise, if he is indeed scum with a paper, then we are risking him passing it to a partner, which as I said, I would rather lose the papers, than risk them getting to scum.

Next:

SH`s mistake was not telling us sooner that he was lying, to get some attention on to MOI

NO. SH biggest mistake was lying about being a cop with a guilty on someone he suspected as scum. Do you realize how that could really screw town over?

I don't believe this is true. Lying about being a cop can be a great motive to get the game moving in a new direction. It has happened in many games that I have been in, and generally been at the very least a great assistance in getting a topic to happen. When I had read up to the page where SH had claimed MOI was scum, SK was already tossing around the idea of MOI for executioner for a second night, and from what I had read of MOI, I didn't think he was even close to town, much less confirmed... see my ISO #26 for reasoning. Yet meanwhile, the feel of the game up to that point, was that MOI was confirmed town... something had to be done to get a view on MOI... and if he were scum, and SH simply had made a post saying "I think MOI is scummy," then not only would he be risking getting killed if MOI had been elected a second night, but I don't think anyone in this town would have listened at all. That's why the cop claim seemed like a really good idea to me, personally.

And honestly, if he were scum, why would he have backed down from the cop claim? Staying with that claim would bring in a question of sanity, and he would have stood a chance, albeit small, of having Zang questioned as executioner, and in judgement. He backed down, simply to explain why he pushed on MOI at all, which seems so town driven I just can't imagine what the people who are actually town involved in this are really thinking. Give SH one more ISO, and tell me this doesn't make sense folk!

In the end, it certainly isn't worth an investigation on a townie to clear SH, I don't believe that's the answer. But rather, looking at the situation logically, and at least first testing data that involves a guilty cop result, we can better deduce if we are killing a townie or scum. Because if quil is indeed scum, do you really see him pushing SH's death this hard?

[Medicated Lain]

Hey there guys!

I ended up watching this game til the end lol. Good job scum.

I *soooo* told you guys! Jason was convincing me he was town though... by agreeing with my points about quil needing to die... the last day however, it was pretty apparent. There was *far* too much trust in MOI, and he looked soooo scummy, I didn't quite understand that at all. Even Zang was convinced enough to want to investigate. ...How did Zang end up dead exactly?

I really like the mechanisms in how this game worked, would definitely be interested in another of this style^^