Mini 1217 - Campaign Mafia (Game Over!)

[Packbat]

VOTE: Timeater

Maruchan did exactly the same thing -- forcing the pace of the game and costing town information -- as scum in Newbie 1122.

[Packbat]

The hammer was #645. L-1 was #629 if you want context.

Oh, and Maruchan pulled a similar ignorance gambit by talking about quicktopics roundabout #201.

[Packbat]

The hammer was #645. L-1 was #629 if you want context.

Oh, and Maruchan pulled a similar ignorance gambit by talking about quicktopics roundabout #201.

As stated earlier: my meta can not be used against me until you have one townie game from me to compare.

I'm not doing comparative meta - I'm just establishing that the WIFOM argument of "it's too obvious to come from scum" does not apply here.

[Packbat]

Although now that I look back, I pretty much gave the town the win on a silver platter because timeater can not post a single word and he is still more likely to win.

So if you gave the town the win cause timeeater is more likely to win, that would mean you were scum? Scumslip?

VOTE: Timeeater

L-1 here.

[Packbat]

@Packbat, I never WIFOMed the "I wouldn't be stupid enough to do that" in 1122. I seriously, would never have killed muffinman, if Oversoul had been my partner.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about WIFOMing

this game

.

@Quiliford, I didn't know that before game so why does the rule apply to me?

It doesn't matter if it applies to you. We have entirely independent reasons to believe you're scum.

We don't know that you elected yourself before you knew your alignment!

I've told you. I told you all WHEN I elected myself too.

Its your fault you don't believe me.

But if we believe you, then how does:

@Pomegranate, I thought I was helping town by not giving the scum the chance to see which of them was most-town-loved.

...make any sense?

[Packbat]

Y'know, actually:

UNVOTE: Timeater

...I want to hear everyone with a vote post at least once with their opinion of all this before the hammer, just to give us extra material to analyze after the flip. I'll replace my vote after Tovarish, Johhog, Twistedspoon, and Shadow Dancer have contributed.

[Packbat]

This is irrelevant to Maruchan's attempts to earn our sympathy by portraying himself as an idiot, but:

if I appeal to packbats, it only affects me and her.

...I'm sorry, but that's pretty hilarious.

My beard is in my avatar

. I'd think it was fairly unambiguous!

(Not that I mind - I've even encouraged that confusion once or twice, just not here.)

[Packbat]

This is irrelevant to Maruchan's attempts to earn our sympathy by portraying himself as an idiot, but:

if I appeal to packbats, it only affects me and her.

...I'm sorry, but that's pretty hilarious.

My beard is in my avatar

. I'd think it was fairly unambiguous!

(Not that I mind - I've even encouraged that confusion once or twice, just not here.)

sorry mixed you up with Panacea. I did the same in another game and everyone was like "Who df is Packbat?"

And cue everyone in this game saying "who df is Panacea?"

Really, it's no problem at all - I was just amused.

[Packbat]

oml, we should totally apply to Oman for Packbat to get that as a title. "Mafiascum's Bearded Lady" He says it has happened to him in games before

Technically, I didn't have a beard when I was an active user on the Dominic Deegan Keenspace/Keenspot discussion board, and that's the chief occasion I'm thinking of. (That and Second Life, but SL doesn't count.)

Also, if you're going to macro, I

do

have the original full-size version of the photo.

[Packbat]

"Acting like" town means doing the things that a player in your position should do, if they are town.

"Sounding like" town means behaving in a fashion which seems to be more likely from a town player than from a scum player, whether or not you are doing the things you should be doing as town.

[Packbat]

I'm actually going to bed - enjoy your dinner.

[Packbat]

Or post-dinner, whatever.

[Packbat]

Oh, FTAO TOWN: I NEVER ONCE LIED TO ANY OF YOU, EVERY POST I MADE WAS TRUTHFUL. You only have yourselves to blame that Scum have the lead

On the contrary, if you are town, you played carelessly and to scum's benefit, as you yourself explained. Scum begin with an informational advantage; it is to town's benefit to gain information even at the cost of giving town information.

[Packbat]

ebwop: even at the cost of giving

town

scum

information.

[Packbat]

My top suspect is Twistedspoon. Quilford's behavior makes a lot of sense from a town perspective; he might be scum, but he might be genuine. Lurconis is terrible. Johhog might be town.

[Packbat]

My top suspect is Twistedspoon. Quilford's behavior makes a lot of sense from a town perspective; he might be scum, but he might be genuine. Lurconis is terrible. Johhog might be town.

if I'm you top suspect then you should be able to say why. As top suspect you can't just leave it at that. I've explained my reads and I expect you to as well

This isn't based on any prior game - it's my impression that you tried to distance yourself from Timeater and then changed your mind to vote for him. As you may have noticed (he said, sarcastically) I don't have all that much to go on.

Anyway: I think we should pick our strongest read - scum

or

town - for the next candidate. That will force the scum into a more difficult situation for picking an opposite.

[Packbat]

Anyway: I think we should pick our strongest read - scum

or

town - for the next candidate. That will force the scum into a more difficult situation for picking an opposite.

I don't see why I'd want to pick my top town read. They're probably the ones I'd want with me as long as possible to help catch the scum

as soon as they're nominated, they'll leave after that round. best keep them for as long as possible, no?

The goal is to maximize the probability that each election elects the correct player. If town's strongest read noms themself, scum will struggle to pick an opponent who can fool the town into reversing the read,

and

the read is more likely to be correct in the first place. There's only three real cases, bear in mind. First: we choose the towniest townie, and they nominate themselves - and (probably) get elected. Win. Second: we choose the scummiest scumbag, and they nominate themselves - and (probably) get defeated. Win. Third: we choose the scummiest scumbag, they

refuse

to nominate themselves, and the towniest townie nominates themself instead - and as soon as the scumbag is forced to stand for election, they lose. Win.

I don't see any flaw in it. Do you?

PEdit: I'll explain my reasoning on Lurconis in a bit - don't change the subject.

[Packbat]

The thing is, I don't really want to nominate a scummy player today, if a scum gets elected this evening we need to elect right three times in a row. Nah, I want us to nominate a town player. Preferably hiplop or Twistedspoon. Hm, hell I'm not sure of hiplop. Wouldn't Twistedspoon be a good nomination?

If a scummy player is nominated, and that scummy player is scum, scum must choose a

townie

to run against him. The benefits are the same: one player with known alignment and an opponent with alignment logically implied.

[Packbat]

oh god. I forgot about this completely

Wouldn't a scummy player be better for the town? we want obv towns for end game dont we?

Good point - although we need to have a backup towny volunteer available, in case deadline looms and our scummy candidate concedes the case by refusing to self-nom.

[Packbat]

Wow, you wonder if Johhog is waiting on his Lurconis reasoning until:

PEdit: I'll explain my reasoning on Lurconis in a bit - don't change the subject.

how about now? I don't want you to forget :/

...a townie gets around to posting something for him to crib from?

(Yes, my read on Johhog has flipped to scum.)

Now, my Lurc (what an appropriate nick!) story starts at #48

Is there any opposition to me nominating myself tomorrow, considering I should be basically confirmed town?

PEdit: Doesn't mean you were refreshing the wiki every 40 minutes?

If he flips scum no problem if he flips town, all of us who quick voted him, myself included, are scum sus and we should discuss it I feel. That is just my gut reaction anyway.

This is the first point where I began to feel oddly about Lurconis - in part because this feels like laying the groundwork for the unfavorable flip. He follows it up with #86:

If you hadn't read your PM yet and therefore didn't know whether you were town or not, why were you volunteering/cutting off discussion in order to help the town?

I already answered this, I had good reasons for myself why it was good for town or for scum. If I had had to defend myself to scum in a QT, I would have sued the reason you're all using against me. it hampered town communication.

This is sort of a WIFOM situation you say you were prepared to defend yourself as scum or town but since your town your using your town defense. How do we know you didn't already defend yourself in the scum QT?


To be fair
Maybe you really hadn't checked your role pm I admit it is possible. It just still doesn't sit right.

...where he is blatantly fence-sitting - once again, trying to defend himself against the inevitable townflip.

There's other stuff to mention in his feed, but his Maruchan/Timeater behavior will do.

---

Nah, we need a obvtown or a obvscum, and I'm afraid most won't agree that you're obvtown Twisted. Quilford is one candidate we could nominate as obvscum, but I would prefer Shadow or something along that line tbh.

I find this hilarious, given that Quilford is my obvtown candidate and Twistedspoon is my obvscum candidate.

I'd be fine with nominating myself.

If we don't have a better candidate at deadline, that's all right with me; right now I'd rather have Twistedspoon volunteer - in fact, a scumflip from him captures Johhog and Lurconis as well.

@crazy: were scum role Pms sent out at the same time as town Pms, and would we be able to use role PM time to deduce alignments?

I'm declining to answer this.

You can't send simultaneous PMs - there's a posting rate restriction. You didn't know this, TS?

nomination votes

ShadowDancer - 2 (Twistedspoon, Johhog)
Quilford - 1 (Quilford)
Twistedspoon - 1 (Packbat)

[Packbat]

All three of my scum suspects have expressed suspicion of a guy who posted three times in the game so far based solely (so far as I can tell) on his third post.

No, I don't want Shadow Dancer nominated. Barring townflips from at least one of you (and probably more), Shadow Dancer is on my

town

list,

just because

y'all are so eager to nom him.

[Packbat]

What is your reasons for suspecting me Packbat?

*headdesk*

I suddenly feel like a complete idiot. People, look at Johhog's ISO and check out this sweetness:

Oh I just realised - everyone is hating Maruchan, so he is pretty likely bussed scum.

No hammer yet though.

Also, Quilford, why? Because I don't agree with you?

Fuck it's a hammer. I bet Timeater was scum. Couldn't we at least have waited for him to say something?!

This day was terribad.

I haven't even gotten as far as the stuff that actually convinced me and, oh, look! He's scummy.

(And no, "I changed my mind because of the quickhammer" doesn't count as an excuse

unless

you think that scum quickhammered - and Twistedspoon was a town read for you. #178.)

If you need more from me, I'll come back and post more, but I think that ought to be convincing all by itself.

[Packbat]

And your point is... ?

Why did you change your mind between #139 and #145?

[Packbat]

I have certain plans with this game... which pretty much involve folowing my game plan and win this. Not giving any prospect into what I'm goning to do at any point in the future is key element of it, though. Watch and learn.

...huh. Okay, I'll give you a shot.

[Packbat]

My gut would seem to suggest that Pomegranate is the obvious townie. Logically, then, I should vote for Johhog. Thoughts?

[Packbat]

WIFOM.

[Packbat]

Judging by the players who have voted so far, I am once again inclined to vote Pomegranate. Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon were L-1 and hammer on Timeater.

[Packbat]

Couple things.

First: I'm finding this entire game incredibly frustrating, primarily because there is essentially

no town

for any townie to count on - half the players in the game are scum, so it's a bear trying to get a sense of what the

real

townies are thinking.

Second: I think Shadow Dancer has the right of it. If the Mafia have no reads on the townies to go by, then the Mafia can't nominate scummy townspeople

or

towny scum.

Oh, and

Johhog is at L-1

. Just mentioning it in hopes that we won't have another ridiculously short day.

[Packbat]

The way I see it, there are two possibilities.

One: Johhog is town, and one or more of Shadow Dancer, Twistedspoon, Duplicity, and Lurconis is voting him (or announcing an intention to do so, in the last case) for towncred.

Two: Johhog is scum, and one or more of Shadow Dancer, Twistedspoon, Duplicity, and Lurconis has been fooled.

Given that scum is in the lead, I really don't see why they would try to angle for towncred right now. If they can get just two townies to vote their way by chance, they can leave whichever of their own players is towniest off the wagon, hammer, and waltz in for a D3 perfect scum victory. Given this, I would expect it to be like pulling teeth to try to get four votes for town in here, and we have four votes available for Johhog in

under two days

.

I don't buy it. At all.

VOTE: Pomegranate

[Packbat]

The way I see it, there are two possibilities.

One: Johhog is town, and one or more of Shadow Dancer, Twistedspoon, Duplicity, and Lurconis is voting him (or announcing an intention to do so, in the last case) for towncred.

Two: Johhog is scum, and one or more of Shadow Dancer, Twistedspoon, Duplicity, and Lurconis has been fooled.

Given that scum is in the lead, I really don't see why they would try to angle for towncred right now. If they can get just two townies to vote their way by chance, they can leave whichever of their own players is towniest off the wagon, hammer, and waltz in for a D3 perfect scum victory. Given this, I would expect it to be like pulling teeth to try to get four votes for town in here, and we have four votes available for Johhog in

under two days

.

I don't buy it. At all.

VOTE: Pomegranate

What about BUSSING?

They don't need to bus.

[Packbat]

One gets you two that Johhog flips scum.

[Packbat]

Pretty sure Packbat, hiplop and Lurconis are the remaining townies.

You're proposing that

all three scum

voted for the townie?

[Packbat]

I'm not seeing a benefit commensurate with the cost of giving town a free election.

[Packbat]

Hurrah. I don't like either of these candidates.

[Packbat]

@ Mod -

Can you PM the remaining players letting them know the day started, I only just noticed when I saw Lurc post.

packbat and quilford knew the day had started.....

I have a tab with my Subscriptions open whenever the browser is open - sometimes I refresh that thing every minute, when I'm especially bored.

Manufactured reasoning for calling someone scummy = scummy, obvs.

[Packbat]

@ Mod -

Can you PM the remaining players letting them know the day started, I only just noticed when I saw Lurc post.

packbat and quilford knew the day had started.....

I have a tab with my Subscriptions open whenever the browser is open - sometimes I refresh that thing every minute, when I'm especially bored.

Manufactured reasoning for calling someone scummy = scummy, obvs.

If twisted is such scum why no vote for his opposition or are you trying not to seem to eager to vote your scum bud.

I haven't started my reread - I don't believe I have enough bits of evidence to establish which of these two is the scummier. More importantly, my gut was saying that hiplop was scum, and I'm not going to contradict it based on a single erroneous proposition.

[Packbat]

I think my gut was correct - I don't like Twistedspoon's play, but I don't like hiplop's play

more

. hip's been a nonentity, and I don't like his reactions to the Johhog wagon/my announcement of L-1 of the same (#452 and vicinity - I'm lazy-ISOing). Twisted has been more active, posting more analysis, all that.

[Packbat]

We're both at a stand still right now. I'm leaning heavily towards TS being town, I don't think he would have bussed that strongly but Shift is insisting that there's no scum motivation for hiphop to put himself up against TS when he was planned and likely to be nominated and elected the next day.

Shift is a noob just like gorilla so I'll probably just ignore his decision.

Although I understand that the one week deadline means we can't draw/drag things out I really want another day or two to discuss this with Shift, no one vote before then please.

I'm about 75% noob as well, but Shift's story makes sense to me as well (although I don't know how good hiplop's odds actually were - better than I guessed, clearly).

[Packbat]

On the contrary - you thought "who's the towniest townie that I can still beat?" To which hiplop is a good answer, as the folk who like one of you generally like the other,

but

between the two of you, you're the better campaigner.

Hypothetically speaking.

[Packbat]

Quick note: it's quite possible my area will be hit by Irene tomorrow - I'm putting myself on

V/LA until September 1st

just in case. If it turns out to miss my area, I will report as such; if my power and Internet service are interrupted, I'll be back as soon as I can.

[Packbat]

@Pack: If at all possible at least place your vote.

Okay - if I have to place a vote now:

VOTE: hiplop

I'll move that if I have to.

[Packbat]

VOTE: hiplop

I'll move that if I have to.

which part of hiplop do you find most town?

His posts are tolerable - the only problem with them is that their kind of thin and sparse at the same time.

[Packbat]

I've had a feeling that Twistedspoon's posting was ... artificial, since hiplop's nomination. Facts like his flip-flopping on whether hiplop's

ISO

was scummy (I've seen scum with towny ISOs) and his trying to paint showing up early when the thread reopened as scummy tend to push Twistedspoon farther from the townie end of the reads than he was before, for example.

Pre-Edit: Oh, and hiplop raises another good point - Twistedspoon took my answer to "which part of hiplop do you find most town?" and pretended that it was an answer to "why are you voting hiplop". I'm voting hiplop because I have been convinced that Twistedspoon is scum, not because I was convinced that TS was town.

[Packbat]

Twistedspoon, why did you say hiplop was towny before he was selected to run against you today?

[Packbat]

Not a bad actor

Theres no fucking reason to AtE like that, honestly. You're being a drama queen ~

saying you're a bad actor is appeal to emotion how?

You're 'acting' since you're trying to be townie when you're obviously not to me

kudos for dismissing my entire post as AtE though

Misrepresentation. Again. hiplop said that there was no good reason to appeal to the emotions of the other players - which could be debated, I suppose, but it is a fact that you

did

try to appeal to their emotions in several places (another example: "The only reason you're still alive is because Johog assumed the rest of the townies would be able to see the forest for the trees, but so far only Luc has done this"). He did

not

say "all you posted is AtE".

And "he didn't respond to the rest of it" doesn't fly, because the rest of it is redundant with earlier posts.

[Packbat]

FOR GOODNESS SAKE WHY CAN'T I GET A SINGLE CALL RIGHT!?

[Packbat]

Quilford is town.

[Packbat]

Wait, scratch that. I thought scum would be unlikely to accidentally hammer town, but if it

was

an accident, then it's just a hiplop vote.

[Packbat]

For reference:

D1: Maruchan (volunteered @4) vs. Timeater (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Maruchan
 
Timeater
 |
-------------------|-------------------|
   8  Quilford     |     .       V     |
   9  Packbat      |     .       V     |
  17  
Pomegranate
  |     .       V*    | * L-2
  30  Lurconis     |     .       V†    | † L-1
  41  
hiplop
       |     V       4     |
  77  Packbat      |     1       u     |
 127  Shadow Dancer|     1       V†    |
 131  
Johhog
       |     V       4     |
 133  
Johhog
       |     u       4     |
 142  
Twistedspoon
 |     V       4     |
 144  
Twistedspoon
 |     u      ~V~    | ===[]
-------------------|-------------------|
                   |     1       5     | Timeater = scum

D2: Johhog (volunteered @392) vs. Pomegranate (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Johhog
 
Pomegranate
 |
-------------------|--------------------|
 420  Shadow Dancer|    V        .      |
 425  
Twistedspoon
 |    V*       .      | * L-2
 447  Duplicity    |    V†       .      | † L-1
 458  Packbat      |    3        V      |
 464  Quilford     |    3        V*     | * L-2
 474  Lurconis     |   ~V~       2      | ===[]
-------------------|--------------------|
                   |    4        2      | Johhog[/color] = Townie

D3: Twistedspoon (volunteered @525) vs. hiplop (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Twistedspoon
 
hiplop
 |
-------------------|---------------------|
 353  Lurconis     |      V         .    |
 570  Packbat      |      1         V    |
 608  Duplicity    |      1         V†   | † L-1
 611  Shadow Dancer|      V†        u    |
 621  Quilford     |     ~V~        1    | ===[]
-------------------|---------------------|
                   |      3         1    | Twistedspoon = Townie

[Packbat]

Sorry, tyop fix:

D1: Maruchan (volunteered @4) vs. Timeater (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Maruchan
 
Timeater
 |
-------------------|-------------------|
   8  Quilford     |     .       V     |
   9  Packbat      |     .       V     |
  17  
Pomegranate
  |     .       V*    | * L-2
  30  Lurconis     |     .       V†    | † L-1
  41  
hiplop
       |     V       4     |
  77  Packbat      |     1       u     |
 127  Shadow Dancer|     1       V†    |
 131  
Johhog
       |     V       4     |
 133  
Johhog
       |     u       4     |
 142  
Twistedspoon
 |     V       4     |
 144  
Twistedspoon
 |     u      ~V~    | ===[]
-------------------|-------------------|
                   |     1       5     | Timeater = scum

D2: Johhog (volunteered @392) vs. Pomegranate (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Johhog
 
Pomegranate
 |
-------------------|--------------------|
 420  Shadow Dancer|    V        .      |
 425  
Twistedspoon
 |    V*       .      | * L-2
 447  Duplicity    |    V†       .      | † L-1
 458  Packbat      |    3        V      |
 464  Quilford     |    3        V*     | * L-2
 474  Lurconis     |   ~V~       2      | ===[]
-------------------|--------------------|
                   |    4        2      | Johhog = Townie

D3: Twistedspoon (volunteered @525) vs. hiplop (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Twistedspoon
 
hiplop
 |
-------------------|---------------------|
 535  Lurconis     |      V         .    |
 570  Packbat      |      1         V    |
 608  Duplicity    |      1         V†   | † L-1
 611  Shadow Dancer|      V†        2    |
 612  Duplicity    |      2         u    |
 621  Quilford     |     ~V~        1    | ===[]
-------------------|---------------------|
                   |      3         1    | Twistedspoon = Townie

[Packbat]

...if the moderator wants to delete the extraneous [/color] in the Johhog = Townie line, I would appreciate it.

Fixed.
-Crazy

[Packbat]

My vote history isn't much help right now - both Lurconis and Shadow Dancer have been on every victorious candidate, and both have been in that position once early and twice late.

[Packbat]

I'm tempted to hammer Lurconis right now. If Lurconis were scum, I would have been a good candidate to pair against him.

[Packbat]

Shadow Dancer looks horrid in ISO, and Lurconis looks fairly good. Also, #653.

Duplicity, you should post soon; I plan to hammer Lurc.

[Packbat]

I think it is likely that the game is over, but if it isn't, I'd like Shadow Dancer to say who is scum if I'm town. The other surviving player should self-nom in that case.

[Packbat]

Why are you unvoting, Quilford?

[Packbat]

Why did you vote Lurconis in the first place?

[Packbat]

...Quilford is making zero sense.

VOTE: Lurconis

Duplicity, if Quilford quickhammers and Lurconis flips scum, nominate yourself.

[Packbat]

So guys I was just thinking it would be a good idea not to be deadlined

Not a concern: September 7 is Wednesday - everyone will be back from V/LA by then.

[Packbat]

The decision looks pretty easy to me. You have yet to offer a satisfying reason why anyone should vote for Shadow Dancer, and in the process of hunting for one, you yourself have admitted that there is reasonable cause for voting Lurconis.

[Packbat]

Just in short for now: I am almost absolutely sure now that Pack is the last scum and that Quil and Dup are town.
I'll elaborate on it more tomorrow when I have more time.

Please note that this is exactly what scum is forced to say in this situation.

[Packbat]

I wouldn't call it IIoA - it's useless, agreed, but it's useless because storytelling is not a reliable method of inference. Here, watch:

---

I.Maruchan vs. Timeater

When Timeater received two rapid votes for quicknomming, particularly when those votes seemed well-justified, scum!Pomegranate decided that it was an opportune moment to join in on the mislynch wagon. hiplop, naturally, set himself in opposition to separate himself from the eventual flip, but when one of the townies (Packbat) unvoted from the wagon to open up the floor for more discussion and showed no sign of returning any time soon, scum!Shadow Dancer decided to drop the L-1 vote to make it easier for a townie to hammer.

II. Johhog vs. Pomegranate

Shadow Dancer quickly voted for the townie for towncred, but when Duplicity caught Pomegranate out with a blatant scumslip, decided that he had to leave his vote there for the lynch.

...interesting. That makes Quilford the obvious scumpartner, as he followed Packbat onto Pomegranate in hopes that the Johhog support wasn't as strong as it appeared. Unfortunately, Packbat was the only idiot idiotic enough to vote for Pom, and the last townie walked in for the hammer.

Unless, of course,

Duplicity

is the obvious scumpartner, because he placed a vote on Johhog in a bow to the inevitable and wasn't before the townie hammer to see that Pomegranate wasn't quite dead.

III. Twistedspoon vs. hiplop

Lurconis drops an immediate vote on his stronger townread, Twistedspoon. Packbat continues to be a tool and votes the wrong guy, Duplicity following through either foolishness (if town) or avarice (if scum). Shadow Dancer drops a towncred vote on the townie. And, if Quilford is scum, Quil tries to take advantage of the apparent strength of the scum wagon, but reflexively votes the wrong way, accidentally giving town a second election.

IV. Lurconis vs. Shadow Dancer

Either:

Quilscum drops a towncred vote on the townie, hoping there will be no early hammer. Duplicity pretends to hammer. Quilford points out the fakeness of the vote to protect his partner, then unvotes before Packbat can hammer and cost him the game.

or:

Quiltown drops a vote on the obvious candidate. Dupliciscum pretends to hammer so he can get towncred for the gambit. Quilford is WIFOMed out and backs off.

---

Why, look at that!

It sounds just as plausible!

[Packbat]

Also: I found another error in #639 -

Crazy, would you please replace the number 353 with 535 in that post?

Fixed.
-Crazy

[Packbat]

Anyway reads as they stand: ShadowDancer (Confirmed Scum) Duplicity (Scum) Packbat (Village Idiot) Quillford (Town)

I wish I could contradict you. :/

(Not actually sure which of Duplicity and Quilford is scummier.)

[Packbat]

I still think Lurconis is town, honestly.

[Packbat]

I'd probably want Duplicity to self-nom too.

[Packbat]

I will not self-nom.

[Packbat]

Well, that answers that question. Quilford, any questions you have, ask away - I'll answer them as completely and honestly as I can.

[Packbat]

D1: Maruchan (volunteered @4) vs. Timeater (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Maruchan
 
Timeater
 |
-------------------|-------------------|
   8  
Quilford
     |     .       V     |
   9  Packbat      |     .       V     |
  17  
Pomegranate
  |     .       V*    | * L-2
  30  
Lurconis
     |     .       V†    | † L-1
  41  
hiplop
       |     V       4     |
  77  Packbat      |     1       u     |
 127  
Shadow Dancer
|     1       V†    |
 131  
Johhog
       |     V       4     |
 133  
Johhog
       |     u       4     |
 142  
Twistedspoon
 |     V       4     |
 144  
Twistedspoon
 |     u      ~V~    | ===[]
-------------------|-------------------|
                   |     1       5     | Timeater = scum

D2: Johhog (volunteered @392) vs. Pomegranate (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Johhog
 
Pomegranate
 |
-------------------|--------------------|
 420  
Shadow Dancer
|    V        .      |
 425  
Twistedspoon
 |    V*       .      | * L-2
 447  Duplicity    |    V†       .      | † L-1
 458  Packbat      |    3        V      |
 464  
Quilford
     |    3        V*     | * L-2
 474  
Lurconis
     |   ~V~       2      | ===[]
-------------------|--------------------|
                   |    4        2      | Johhog = Townie

D3: Twistedspoon (volunteered @525) vs. hiplop (selected)

Post# Voter        | 
Twistedspoon
 
hiplop
 |
-------------------|---------------------|
 535  
Lurconis
     |      V         .    |
 570  Packbat      |      1         V    |
 608  Duplicity    |      1         V†   | † L-1
 611  
Shadow Dancer
|      V†        2    |
 612  Duplicity    |      2         u    |
 621  
Quilford
     |     ~V~        1    | ===[]
-------------------|---------------------|
                   |      3         1    | Twistedspoon = Townie

D4: Lurconis (volunteered @634) vs. Shadow Dancer (selected)

Post # Voter       | 
Lurconis
 
Shadow Dancer
 |
-------------------|------------------------|
 647  
Quilford
     |    V           .       |
 655  Duplicity    |    x           .       | x = fake vote
 662  
Quilford
     |    u           .       |
 669  Packbat      |    V           .       |
 695  
Quilford
     |   ~V~          .       | ===[]
-------------------|------------------------|
                   |    2           0       | Lurconis = Scum

[Packbat]

I'll most likely be voting Packbat, but I could probably be convinced either way.

I don't have much to offer - I've had a solid .000 batting average all game, which puts me on par with my previous record as a debate club competitor - but like I said, if you have any question about anything I've done, ask and ye shall receive.

[Packbat]

The first thing that springs to mind is 608-612, the placing of a vote on hiplop by one head and the nuking of that vote by the other - Shift had a really good case supporting the hiplop vote based on Twistedspoon backpedaling, and as soon as Regfan gets on, he yanks the vote like it's toxic and backs away from the read with little explanation.

#655/#667 is rehearsed, and I'm an idiot for not picking up on that right away - Lurc

wasn't online

to think he was heading into the weekend with a completed game before Quilford - you - pointed out that Duplicity's vote was a fake, so why the comment?

If I see anything else, I'll add it to those two things.

[Packbat]

I haven't reread - I'm really tired today, three hours of sleep tired. I could say that the #1 thing that scum would want is to not be on the Lurc wagon yesterday, being as they have to be able to sell themselves as town today, but I don't know how compelling a point that is.

[Packbat]

Dude, I don't

even

know. I have all of one-and-a-marathon scum games - my meta is anything but gelled.

If I were to try to make recommendations, in order of most useful to you to read:

• Ozy and Millie Mafia - the single scum game I mentioned;
  
• There Goes the Neighborhood - my worst town game (I was overwhelmed at the time, and couldn't give it the attention it deserved);
  
• Newbie 1122 - my latest relatively-standard game (only quirk: I was IC); and
  
• Reverse Mafia - my latest non-standard game.

[Packbat]

Any comment, Quil?

[Packbat]

I still hate this setup. Quilford, did you look at any of the meta I gave you?

[Packbat]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

Man, now I'm wishing I was killed earlier - you guys had a lot more fun than I did.

[Packbat]

Damn...
Packbat is the single most abysmal town player I've ever encountered in any of my games I guess... I mean - 100% wrong over four or five elections?

Gee, tell us how you

really

feel.

The more I think about the maru situation the more I think that some mod-legislation would have been appropriate. Not reading one's role PM pre-game before posting a vote or, in this case, entering an election is absolutely against the spirit of the game. Since this is an open setup any combination of force replacement and redistributing role PMs wouldn't have been too much trouble.

Yes.

Force-replace and role-rerolling would have been good, there - definite violation of community norms by Maruchan, here.

[Packbat]

I'm not sure - it

had

occurred to me that scum might try a WIFOM gambit.