A Brief Treatise On Magickal Theory And Practice

[Yaw]

I'm going to build this up bit by bit, then rewrite it later for the players. The basic idea is that this thread will contain the theoretical background for each of the magickal categories in the RPG (Sorcery, Divination, Conjuration, Alchemy, and Ritual Magick) first. This will give us a solid basis for determining what each kind of magick can and cannot do, and how it goes about producing the desired effect. This will also give us a consistent magickal system, and avoid any problems of characters gaining godlike magickal powers that render the RPG itself ridiculous. Having the theory down, generating the math for the rolls and carrying them out when players decide to get creative should be easier.

I also intend to come up with rules for how to analyze whether or not a player is able to pull off a magickal effect in this thread. That will come after the theory, and should hopefully follow from it.

Comments on both the theoretical and practical end of this are encouraged.

[Yaw]

Sorcery

Sorcery is the spiritual manipulation of matter for a desired effect. The sorcerer works with the four elements (fire, water, air, and earth) and their associated correspondences (respectively energy, emotion, mind, and body), blending them to create magick. This means that for any spell, the sorcerer must be clear about what elements he or she is using, in what amounts, where they are originating, how they are being combined, and what final effect the spell is to have.

Let us say for example that a sorcerer has decided to travel into a cave, and needs light. This is a relatively simple spell on the whole, but will serve to illustrate some of the complications inherent in sorcery.

What elements are being used? Certainly fire. Other elements may be used depending on how exactly the sorcerer wishes to go about manifesting the light spell. If she simply wants to light a torch by magickal means, then only fire would be required. If she wants a glowing ball to fly around lighting the cave, then some air would be required for the effect.

In what amounts? Lighting a torch would only need a spark, so very little. The ball of light would need more fire, as the ball would have to be larger than a spark. It might also require new inputs of fire from time to time, to prevent the ball from dying out. The air used in the ball can be of any amount, but requires a clear delineation between it and the air in the cave itself, to avoid having the fire in the ball diffuse over the cave.

Where are they originating? It is necessary to transport fire from outside the cave into the cave. This resource gathering is the first lesson a sorcerer learns in magickal work. It will be easier during the day, when it is possible to gather fire from the sun's rays, than at night, when it is necessary to gather fire from candles or bonfires lit by other people. Any resource-gathering will cause a deficit in the element elsewhere, which may be noticeable if it is generally scarce. There are times when this must be done with care to avoid serious problems for others.

How are they being combined? At this point, for the ball of light, the sorcerer must work to create space between the air used in the ball and the air in the cave. The fire would then be introduced into the ball in such quantity that the air can sustain it as a glowing light. If too much fire is used, the resulting ball of fire may result in things getting burned. In addition, air does not burn well, so a ball of fire will die out fairly quickly.

What is the final effect? After the ball of light is completed, is it to remain stationary? If not, the sorcerer must keep it in mind at all times, manipulating the air around the ball to push it in various directions.

Most of the above will quickly become automatic to even the newest sorcerers. For common effects, the use of the elements will be well known. Sorcery, however, is not a static art, and knowing how to produce effects in a more general sense allows sorcerers to be creative in their art, producing entirely new magick. New effects do require far more consideration, and will naturally be more difficult because they require working through all the theoretical subtleties.

The key limiting factor is gathering the elements required for any magickal effect. This can be very dependent on time and space. For example, in Amstaad itself, producing a jet of fire will be relatively simple (requiring only fire and air, both of which are in abundance), while producing a jet of ice will be more difficult (requiring water, air, and manipulating fire away from the jet in sufficient quantities to allow the water to freeze). In a colder climate, the reverse will be true, as fire becomes scarce it becomes easier to produce the jet of ice and harder to gather the fire for the jet of that element.

As a final note, the elemental correspondences are also valid in producing effects. These can involve using air to influence the thoughts of others, using fire to give someone more stamina temporarily, using water for spells of love, or other similar work. For this reason, sorcerers (as well as other users of magick) are required to take an Oath upon beginning their training, holding them to a standard of magickal ethics.

[Yaw]

Divination

Where sorcery could be considered the manipulation of matter, divination concerns the manipulation of time. The diviner does not actually travel in time or read the future, but does have the ability to learn and see hidden events and motivations in the past and present, and to find influences on the future. With this information, actions can be taken on a more mundane level that can have far-reaching consequences because they can occur in the exact place, time, and manner to have the greatest influence.

Unlike sorcery, divination tends to be very culturally defined in terms of methodology. While all sorcerers in all cultures effect magickal work in a similar manner, divination relies on the use of various artifacts to direct the concentration of the diviner, which may vary greatly. The result is that diviners of different cultures have varying effectiveness when it comes to certain common subjects of divination. The common ritual artifacts are as follows:

Trancework: Only used by the Tiktuk. Through the use of drums, the diviner slips into a trance and is inhabited by one of the Tiktuk goddesses or ancestral spirits for the delivery of a message. Because of the amount of work involved, trancework is never used for personal issues, but only for community information.

Automatic Writing: A system primarily used by the Passani that involves using the copying of passages from their holy scriptures to induce a trance. Interpretation of what the diviner writes while under trance reveals hidden messages. This is the most prophetic of the divination schools, and the messages tend to refer to future influences to the exclusion of all else.

Tea Leaves: Pioneered by the Elves, this system involves swirling the leaves of a nearly-finished cup of tea across the sides of the cup, producing patterns for interpretation. Results tend to centre around how interconnected with the world around him or her the questioner is and will be. It lends itself well to personal questions, and deals only obliquely with community issues.

Stone Scrying: Pioneered by the Dwarves, scrying involves allowing variations in different stones and ores to suggest images in response to a question. Different stones are said to be better for inquiring into different issues. Results centre around unlocking the influences of the past on the issue presented. This method is poor for divining future influences. Similar to tea leaves, scrying is also better suited to personal questions.

Bone/Rune Casting: This method is preferred by the Slith. A series of marked or unmarked items is thrown at an empty space of earth, and the patterns suggested by where the bones end up is interpreted. If the items are marked (runes), when which rune ends up where is also part of the interpretation. Being more complex than many other methods, casting is generally good at answering any question, but does not give the detail a more specialized method would.

Astrology: The preferred method of the Aerin works through interpreting the positions of various stars and planets. Through the use of carefully derived charts, they are able to determine influences on situations in any time. This method has issues with specifics, and cannot deal well with particular events except through relating them back to the influences expected after the fact.

Tarot Cards: This specialized set of cards is used by the Briaf diviners. It works through the interpretation of a randomized layout of cards. Effectiveness is similar to that of Slith casting methods, though there tends to be a difference in the sense of information derived. The cards are less direct and more subtle, which seems to allow for finer detail.

Many cultures also use crystal balls, which are a finer variation on Dwarvish scrying. All diviners also hold to a standard of magickal ethics.

[Yaw]

Conjuration

Conjuration is the only Magickal art that can be described as "discovered" -- in this case by the famed prophet Isun al-Istari of the ancient Passani Empire. He became the first conjurer through a series of visions, in which he was shown a great silver door to the Astral Realms guarded by a powerful Efreet. He was shown inside, and gifted with the ability to call forth Astral objects and beings to the waking world. By founding a small but prestigious mystical school, he was able to pass this skill on. It has since passed beyond the Passani Empire to other races and cultures, but in a very clear lineage traceable back to al-Istari.

At its most basic, conjuration consists of making an out-of-body journey to visit Efreet. The conjurer there makes a request for what he would like to manifest from the Astral Realms, which is provided. The conjurer does not pass through the silver door; only al-Istari has done so.

Gifts from Efreet come with two conditions. An offering must be made to Efreet for each successful visit, otherwise he will cease to answer supplications. The type of offering is worked out individually with Efreet when the conjurer is initated into the school of conjuration, though most choose to use a blood offering as a blood offering forms a significant part of the initiation ceremony.

In addition, gifts from Efreet are always tied directly to the essence of the conjurer, the only thing keeping the Astral object in this realm. That is, any Astral object exerts a continual drain on the conjurer proportional to its power, and will revert back to the Astral Realms when the conjurer no longer has enough energy to support the drain. This is a safety mechanism worked out between al-Istari and Efreet. Conjurers have the ability to summon great beings through their magickal work, such as ancient dragons and greater demons, which could wreak great havoc if permitted to overwhelm the conjurer that summoned them. However, because of this limitation, overwhelming the conjurer will simply send these beings safely back to the Astral Realms.

More advanced conjurers learn how to direct the actions of Astral beings. It is possible for lesser conjurers to summon Astral beings -- and if the beings are sufficiently weak, to keep them around for a while -- but it is in many cases unwise as the beings will behave according to their own natural wills.

The Astral Realms contain items and beings of every possible description. For this reason, conjurers must be precise in their requests of Efreet. If they are not, the results could be quite unexpected.

It should be noted that the Tiktuk were found to have a related conjuration art, developed independently of the al-Istari school. In many respects, the two arts are the same. The Tiktuk, however, make requests of their Lady Death, who guards a curtain of the palest violet to the Land of the Ancestors, where they believe the dead go. Scholars in comparitive magickal theory have determined that this is another doorway to the Astral Realms, which has led them to speculate on additional, as-yet unknown doors.

[Yaw]

Alchemy

Alchemy is the magickal manipulation of nature. As such, it is quite different from sorcery, which sees the world as a series of inert elements. Alchemy sees life in all things, and attempts to work with this living nature.

According to the alchemists, there are three processes inherent in everything. The first of these is the physical nature, symbolized by salt. There is also a spiritual nature, symbolized by sulfur. Meditating between the two, as a conduit connecting the two previous natures is the third, symbolized by mercury. The fundamental alchemical work involves separating these three natural processes, purifying them individually, then recombining them.

Practically, this ability to work with life forces makes medicine the exclusive domain of alchemy. This frequently takes the form of potions and balms. Herbalism is a related ability that all alchemists study.

From a philosophical standpoint, the goal of each alchemist is to purify himself through alchemical work. It is because of the differing goals of alchemy that it is usually taught as two separate items. Alchemical knowledge covers herbalism and other natural subjects, as well as the philosophies behind alchemical work. Alchemical magick covers the actual processes of working with nature, both to produce practical results and to point the alchemist forward in the work of self-purification.

It should additionally be noted that alchemy is the only magickal branch that can produce truly long-term effects. A potion can be bottled and kept for a long time without any additional cost of magickal energy to the alchemist. Maintaining an effect through sorcery or conjuration always requires a continual drain on the sorcerer or conjurer. As with all other branches of magick, alchemists are held to a standard of magickal ethics.

[Yaw]

Ritual Magick

Ritual Magick is actually composed of four separate magickal skills, one for each of the previous categories of magick. It allows sorcerers, diviners, conjurers, or alchemists to work together, pooling their magickal abilities to accomplish greater effects. The methodology involved proceeds naturally from the magickal art itself.

Since sorcery, divination, conjuration, and alchemy are based on such different philosophies, they cannot be blended together through the use of ritual magick. It is very difficult for anyone to even acquire the use of more than one magickal art, with the exception of divination. This is not to say that it cannot and hasn't been done, but those who have tried to learn multiple forms of magick frequently describe the experience as trying to perform carpentry with washing equipment. For the vast majority of people, it only promotes confusion and is not recommended.

[Yaw]

Ok, that's the first pass. PLEASE, comment on what's there -- what you like, what you don't like, etc. In particular, I kept making references to an ethical code for the use of magick. I think this is a good idea to have one written up, but would like input as to what sorts of things should be included. That is, what would you consider to be wrong for anyone using one of the above magickal systems to do?

Thanks.

[Pie_is_good]

I think the ideas are good, but a few things need to be hammered out.

The magickal ethics system mentioned seems reasonable, but I don't think all players should be held to that. If someone plays their character with an evil or chaotic alignment, I think they should have the right to break the code.

Also, I'm not sure what exactly the code will do. I don't think it should outlaw the use of magic within fights. It would make sense for it to outlaw use of magic for pickpocketing, etc., but the Amstaad law would hold you to that anyways.

Also, is this magical ability going to use the experience point system? You mention that you can get better as you go, but I don't see a way to measure that growth.

Other than that, Looks great. I think the premises are all good, but the rules about how exactly this will work (like the code) aren't quite clear.

[Yaw]

Yeah, the math is coming, and it will use experience points and all. Just want to run the concept through everyone before I try to model them.

As for ethics, think of doctors as an example. We expect doctors in our society to abide by an oath to help people, in addition to laws regarding medical practice. In Amstaad, the alchemists

are

the doctors. At any rate, that's sort of the idea. With many of these abilities, exerting powers may be untraceable by those enforcing the law, so an additional set of personal limitations would be required.

[Pie_is_good]

Alright, sounds good.

The ethical code certainly makes sense; just as the doctors' code would. I still think that not everybody should be held to the code, though. Races which don't like each other wouldn't be expected to heal each other, and evil players would only heal for personal benefit.

[Yaw]

Well, it should be sort of like the real world, I think. Ethical standards exist, and those that take oaths are supposed to hold themselves to them. That said, there may be circumstances which place strain on the code, and in these situations people may choose not to follow the code. These choices should have consequences (and similarly, following the code should have consequences).

Don't think of this as necessarily a rigid thing, though. It can be a set of generalized principles, and it can be fairly open-ended. I don't necessarily know where this ethical code is going right now, so it's entirely possible to have things you're concerned about not covered by it.

[jeep]

Overall I like it... it will be interesting to see how the details flesh out.

-JEEP

[mikehart]

Alright, after a talk with Yaw , we agree something needs to be done in regards to magic so I offered to try and come up with a system based upon D&D's magic system. I've come up with five schools of magic to use. Sorcery is the magic of manipulating energy to create in effect, something out of nothing. Examples of Sorcery would be a

fireball

, a

lightning bolt

, or

ray of frost

. Divination is the magic of manipulating time to see the past, present, and future. Divination also includes spells that would give someone more information than a person is normally privy to. Examples of Divination would be

scry

,

clairvoyance

, or

read thoughts

. Conjuration is the magic of bringing and sending manifestations of objects, creatures, or energy over distances and/or planes. Examples of conjuration would be

summon creature

,

teleport

,

cure minor wounds

, and

wall of iron

. Abjuration is the magic of manipulating energy and people to protect others, bend others to your will, or changing others basic qualities. Examples of Abjuration would be

enlarge person

,

magic shield

, and

hypnotize

. Alchemy is the magic of placing enchantments upon inanimate objects. Examples of Alchemy would be

create acid

,

create potion

, and

enchant weapon

.



i know this is very similar to the D&D rulebook but its really only to be used as a guide for creating spells and deciding the schools spells should belong to. tomorrow i will post how actual casting will be performed along with the costs required

[mikehart]

Alright here are my thoughts regarding giving players spells, limiting their amount of casting per day, and implementing how spells will be cast.

Creating Spells

Players creating spells will work in a submission faction. Whenever a player gets a skill rank in a spell school they will submit a spell for each additional spell slot they gain to mods in this fashion.

Spell Level:

Spell Name:

What will happen when spell is cast:

Description of the component(s) needed to cast the spell:

The mods will use this information to decide what the base damage/benefit this spell will create and possibly modify the components needed to cast the spell. A good rule of thumb will be to require a minimum of two types of component.

An example of a submitted spell by a player:

Spell Level:

2

Spell Name:

Fireball

What will happen when spell is cast:

A 5 foot diameter sphere of flame will shoot from the caster’s fingertip and explode with a 5-foot radius upon contact with any object. Will set aflame any flammable object caught in the explosion except the caster.

Description of the component(s) needed to cast the spell:

A small bit of sulfur.

An example of the finished spell submitted back to the player by the mods:

Spell Level:

2

Spell Name:

Fireball

What will happen when spell is cast:

A 5 foot diameter sphere of flame will shoot from the caster’s fingertip and explode with a 5-foot radius upon contact with any object. Will set aflame any flammable object caught in the explosion except the caster.

Description of the component(s) needed to cast the spell:

A small bit of sulfur and a somatic component or word of command (up to the mod)

Base Damage:

1d4 + POW

The base damage I just came up with off the top of my head so that may need to change.

As for when players will actually learn new spells, I am unsure on how to handle this. Two ideas I do have are for each new level you create 2 spells for that level and additional spells based upon your POW attribute. The formula for that would be POW/4(rounded down) additional spells. My second idea is to allow players: (average of all spell skill levels)+(POW/3). However these are more just thrown out to gauge reaction than to be the standard.

Limiting Spells per Day

The number of spells per day a caster may cast will be the number of spells that player knows + POW/3 rounded down. For instance, Bobo the Wondermage knows 7 spells and has a POW of 9. Bobo can cast 10 spells per day. If Bobo wishes he can cast 10 copies of the same spell or use all seven of his known spells. For a player to regain his ability to cast spells, he must get at least 8 hours of rest.

Casting a Spell

Casting a spell will be similar to the D&D mechanic. The player will decide what spell to cast and will expend the components to cast it. There will be three main types of components used in spells. Somatic, an arcane motion or other motion; verbal, a word of command or chant; and material, a bit of sulfur or other item are the three types. This is to allow some kind of restriction on casting. You can’t cast a spell with a verbal component if you can’t speak, you can’t cast a spell with a material component with items in both hands without dropping one, and etc. We will assume that all spellcasters have a material component pouch necessary to cast their spells.


so thats where i am right now. feedback would be appreciated

[Yaw]

First off, just to gather everything in this thread:

* There are two different skills called Alchemy: the Knowledge: Alchemy Skill represents a person's accumulated knowledge of the sort of things that have been and could be created via Alchemy, whereas the Spirit Skill Alchemy represents the person's ability to actually brew potions and so forth.

...

*** All of these Skills represent a person's ability to utilize a specific form of Magick. Sorcery is the stereotypical "spellcasting" depicted in "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings" books. It can have many different effects, from blasts of fire to flying high above the clouds. The limits of Sorcery are set only by the limits of the imagination of the magick-wielder. (NOTE: Sorcery never duplicates Divination or Conjuration.) Divination is the art of being able to use different ritual items to learn knowledge the diviner wouldn't normally have access to: crystal balls, tea leaves, astrology, etc. Conjuration is the magickal ability to summon objects, forces, and even living beings from other places or planes of existence. Ritual Magick is the ability to work with another magick-user to achieve a greater effect from one of the above Skills. Two or more magick-wielding people can both use their Ritual Magick Skill to attempt to combine their Skill ratings in another form of magick to produce a more powerful effect.

This is the original information from the Character Creation. I believe we should be sticking to

this

as much as possible, since it's out there already. There isn't much information here, though, so lots of room to work. The posts I made above were attempts to flesh out what Dourgrim's written to a point from which it could be codified, but those posts are quite open to modification.

Now for specifics...

I've come up with four schools of magic to use. Evocation is the magic of manipulating energy to create an effect out of nothing. Examples of Evocation would be a

fireball

, a

lightning bolt

, or

ray of frost

.

Let's keep the names the same, at least. So this is Sorcery.

The description is different from what I had, but I sort of like the elegance of this one. All matter contains potential energy, so manipulating energy should be sufficient to describe what's happening. It's more of a modern Physics definition than what I had (with the four classical elements), but I don't see why we couldn't go this way. (Mind you, I haven't thought out all the implications yet.) I'd take off the "out of nothing" part, because it's unnecessary and somewhat confusing -- you're manipulating latent energy, not creating effects from a void or vacuum.

mikehart edit: this was a typo. it should read: in effect, making something out of nothing.

Divination is the magic of manipulating time to see the past, present, and future. Divination also includes spells that would give someone more information than a person is normally privy to. Examples of Divination would be

scry

,

clairvoyance

, or

read thoughts

.

Two points that need to be looked into here.

1) Free Will vs. Determinism. Which is our philosophy on time going to resemble? It matters in that "seeing the future" looks very different depending on whether or not you believe people can change it. (My definition tended towards Free Will, this one tends towards Determinism. I'm not sure if that's what was intended.)

2) I sort of like the idea of divination methods being culturally diverse -- Amstaad is rather multicultural, and it presents more ways for that to matter. I'm not sure how that might fit into this defintion.

I find it interesting that "Read Thoughts" works well with Dourgrim's definition, while I completely missed that implication. I do think that idea belongs here to some extent.

Conjuration is the magic of bringing and sending manifestations of objects, creatures, or energy over distances and/or planes. Examples of conjuration would be

summon creature

,

teleport

,

cure minor wounds

, and

wall of iron

.

Yes, basically. I had it specifically as over planes, but the other is an interesting application I hadn't considered that works fairly consistently. (That is, teleport by transporting

yourself

into, then out of the Astral Plane.) The only difference is that it would become possible to make things go physically into the Astral Plane as well, while previous defintions only had objects going in the other direction. So conjurers could actually make people vanish!

Abjuration is the magic of manipulating energy and people to protect others, bend others to your will, or changing others basic qualities. Examples of Abjuration would be enlarge person, magic shield, and hypnotize.

This feels unnecessary. Sorcery already manipulates energy, and could be extended to healing of the "laying on of hands" variety. Alchemy does fit reasonably well for protective and healing applications. I'll admit that my definition of alchemy was a hodge-podge of the ideas of medieval alchemy and classical fantasy magical potions that didn't necessarily hold together well, but I'm not convinced this is the best way to solve that problem.

Creating Spells

Players creating spells will work in a submission faction. Whenever a player gets a skill rank in a spell school they will submit a spell for each additional spell slot they gain to mods in this fashion.

Spell Level:

Spell Name:

What will happen when spell is cast:

Description of the component(s) needed to cast the spell:

The mods will use this information to decide what the base damage/benefit this spell will create and possibly modify the components needed to cast the spell. A good rule of thumb will be to require a minimum of two types of component.

For the most part, an emphatic yes to this. It will make things a LOT easier on the mods to be able to plan first, and a lot better for the players if they know what to expect from a "spell". A part of me doesn't like losing the allowance for creativity that was there under the more "free-form" system, but I think we gain more than we lose. This still allows players to be creative, as they have to submit stuff.

We don't exactly have levels -- it's more a system in which relevant experience can be traded off for attribute and skill points. That could be mapped on to a level system, or more easily, allow a certain number of new spells for every new skill or attribute point. I'm not sure if that's the best option, but it's moving in the right direction. (It also eliminates the need for funny formulae based on attributes.)

Limiting Spells per Day

The number of spells per day a caster may cast will be the number of spells that player knows + POW/3 rounded down. For instance, Bobo the Wondermage knows 7 spells and has a POW of 9. Bobo can cast 10 spells per day. If Bobo wishes he can cast 10 copies of the same spell or use all seven of his known spells. For a player to regain his ability to cast spells, he must get at least 8 hours of rest.

We definitely need a way to limit what the magick people can do. What I don't like about this is that it doesn't consider scale -- lighting a candle requires far less energy than creating a large fireball, which means a sorcerer

should

be able to do the former more often in a day than the latter. Fatigue might not be the way to go, but some idea of a "degree of difficulty" needs to be here.

Casting a Spell

Casting a spell will be similar to the D&D mechanic. The player will decide what spell to cast and will expend the components to cast it. There will be three main types of components used in spells. Somatic, an arcane motion or other motion; verbal, a word of command or chant; and material, a bit of sulfur or other item are the three types. This is to allow some kind of restriction on casting. You can’t cast a spell with a verbal component if you can’t speak, you can’t cast a spell with a material component with items in both hands without dropping one, and etc. We will assume that all spellcasters have a material component pouch necessary to cast their spells.

This is an area I hadn't really thought about. This seems specific to sorcery -- the other types don't feel like they'd work this way. I'm still not sure if I want sorcerers dependent on having material reagents (that seems to feed more into alchemy), but I could go either way on that. One option would be to open sorcery up to cultural differences in a similar way as divination, with different races/subraces having different methods of getting off the same spell, or different specializations. So some might be dependent on having materials, but others might be dependent on something entirely different. There's some interesting room for exploration here.

[mikehart]

well material components aren't a neccessity. a spell could have purely vocal and somatic. as for spell level i included that to allow for fatigue with casting. say allow a certain amount of low level and lesser amount of higher level spells

[Yaw]

That's more along the lines. The formula you proposed doesn't actually consider the level of the spell being

cast

, which is why I pointed it out. (Or at least, it implies that all spells are of the same level.)

[mikehart]

ok. i'll work on it and see what i can do. i'll also modify my first post to account for dourgrims wording

[mikehart]

as for Abjuration I added that because in my opinion we don't want sorcery to be too strong of a magic. i think alchemy would be good for enchantments put upon inanimate objects. potions, weapons, and the like. but i think we need a way for a magic user to be able to help a grouping of characters without being pure offense. i kind of see sorcery as the offensive school allowing for high powered fireballs and such and mundane things like lighting torches or boiling water. abjuration would allow passive casters to be helpful in groups by enhancing the abilities of others and if we allowed sorcery to handle that it seems to me that sorcery would just become way over powered.

[Yaw]

That's a good point. Perhaps it would be more efficient to just have "schools" of sorcery? It wouldn't change Dourgrim's definitions any, and it would get players to specialize to the point where sorcery wouldn't be an uber-magic. That would also allow for more variation than just offense vs. defense.

[mikehart]

Limiting Spells per Day

A caster can cast as many spells per day as school skill level+(POW/2)/level of spell rounded down.

For instance BoBo the Wondermage has a power of 10 and has 5 levels in Sorcery. Bobo can cast 10 Level 1 spells, 5 Level 2 spells, 3 Level 3 spells, 2 Level 4 spells, and 2 Level 5 spells.

5+(10/2)=10
10/1=10
10/2=5
10/3=3
10/4=2
10/5=2

[Yaw]

Ethics, initial thoughts:

This is going to have to be fleshed out into a set of rules, but just a bit of brainstorming here.

Definitely bad -- Screwing with the dead in any way. Not somewhere I think we want players going. (Also, it's not like any inhabited area would want ghosts or zombies wandering around.)
-- Mind control. This just feels very much like violating someone.

Sorcery issues -- In sorcery, ethics seems to creep in in the sense of what is being done. So the primary idea here would probably be to only use magick to harm in self-defense. I'm sure there's other stuff to think about, though...

Divination issues -- According to what's been defined, there's not much risk of a diviner seeing someone's sexual exploits, or anything of that level. On the other hand, a diviner can't really control what information they're going to get. What can be controlled is what they do with it. One issue here would be misleading others (although that can get tricky). The other deals with respect. For example, if the diviner finds out his client has been sleeping around through divination, and both he and his wife are right in front of him, what is his responsibility?

Conjuration issues -- The big thing here isn't action. It's negligence. We don't want some powerful conjurer summoning something nasty and letting it run amok. The issue is how to word things to make that clear. (We can't just put it under harming others, because the conjurer isn't technically doing harm. He just summoned the demon that's doing harm!)

Alchemy issues -- The big issue I see here is the issue of poisons. This sort of fits with the conjuration points, and whether it's an issue to create the poison in the first place even if you never are the one to use it.

That's a start. Any other issues inherent in the magick categories? Stuff you think should be banned in general? (Banned here means shunned by society and all right-thinking magick-users...these things are still

possible

.)

[jeep]

I think that the ethical stuff should be stated pretty clearly with some room for error. If someone breaks the rules, then things can be handled by role playing. I think that is a good start. I'll repeat some of it below.

So basic areas of Taboo:
Mind Control / Slavery (love potions anyone?)
Necromancy
Sentient sacrifice
Stealing

Some more specifics and less well defined:
Using more than your fair share of the local resources -- if you draw all the fire in a region it can negatively affect some people.

Divination seems sufficiently weak in terms of direct results, that I'm not sure how much we need to worry about abuse except as marked above.

Can conjuration really get out of hand? This one seems to have some safeguards already built in. The description doesn't mention anything about being held to a standard of ethics.

-JEEP

[Yaw]

I missed stealing. Good point.

Sentient sacrifice might be redundant -- if we don't want people killing others using magick, we may as well just say that and let sacrifice fall under the umbrella.

Hadn't even considered local resources, but it is a good point. (For example, drawing all the fire out of a room, causing people to freeze to death. The wrong action isn't the spell itself here, but the means by which it's effected.) Not sure how to word this, but definitely worth saying something.

Conjuration is actually reasonably good for safeguards, but they apply primarily to less powerful conjurers. Demons certainly can't run amok unless the conjurer is both powerful, and

chooses

to let them run wild. It's possible to take the ethics out of character hands and just have a behind-the-scenes list of what the guardian of the Astral will approve, but I think that removes some capacity for storytelling (not that it would necessarily be used, but having to deal with a rogue conjurer could make for a good scenario). I also think that makes things a bit more complex than they need to be -- it's easier to just have an ethical law against negligence than to come up with a list of what is and what is not allowable for the guardian to grant under Conjuration.

[jeep]

Will there be "never transform others" in the code of ethics?

-JEEP