[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[GreyICE]

Science is kinda garbage, I dislike.

Adding 2 VTs probably balances it.

[GreyICE]

Can we just trash the science setup?

It adds nothing unique that friends and enemies doesn't add, and it's far too stupid a setup to argue about this much.

[GreyICE]

No, it's not. If you can't figure out just from looking at the numbers what the problem is, then this is not worth arguing.

3:7:3
2:3:2

If the top is balanced doesn't take SCIENCE to figure out the bottom one is a load of horseshit. 2:5:2 is obviously much better.

As a thought experiment just continue downwards (replace the mason with a single confirmed "Earl" in the setup). 1:3:1 is clearly more-or-less balanced. Adding a scum and a mason to 1:3:1 does not balance make.

[GreyICE]

1:3:1 is hardly favored with random lynching.

Odds of a day 1 scum lynch: 25%
Odds of a day 2 scum lynch: 33%

Overall odds of town victory: 50%

That's sheer 50/50 on nose. So I challenge your claim, wholesale.

7p one is terrible and broken, stop leading a one man crusade against basic math

[GreyICE]

50%

is

town-favoured. Not significantly in such in a short game, mind you, but town-favoured.

Both 2:3:2 and 3:7:3 seem fine to me.

Both 2:5:2 and 2:3:2 cannot be balanced.

2:5:2 is balanced.

[GreyICE]

Also the Earl doesn't claim D1 unless he's run up, which makes D2 a 50/50 a of good chunk of the time and bumps town's odds of winning a good bit over 50%

Precisely, town winning percentage is:
1/4 d1scumlynch (1/5 immediate, 1/5 * 1/4 after first running up Earl)
1/5 * 3/4 * 1/3 // Run up Earl, then lynch town, then lynch scum.
3/5 * 1/3 * 1/3 // lynch VT, scum NKs Earl, lynch scum
3/5 * 2/3 * 1/2 // lynch VT, scum NKs VT, lynch scum

Total is 56.7% for town, and that's lynching randomly, which I think we expect towns to improve upon.

True, it only works to 50/50 with an innocent child reveal day 1.

Anyway, the point is that 1:3:1 is certainly not VERY town favored, and adding 1 mason and 1 scum does not even become close to town favored.

2:3:2 is not balanced, period. It's strongly scum favored.

[GreyICE]

Any set-up wherein scum have a greater inherent advantage would have random lynching as a breaking strategy and are thus problematic (that may be a valid knock against Mountainous, now that I think about it).

Given town win percentages in known mountainous, lynching with dice tags not only significantly shortens the pain, but probably increases town EV.

[GreyICE]

Twin trap seems horrid. I'm not sure 3 VT, 1 watcher, 1 tracker, 2 goons is town sided. Making the PRs only catch one of the two scum turns it into a joke. Maybe as a 9 player. MAYBE.

My Name is Earl is awesome.


PEdit: Obv I second Hito's nomination.

[GreyICE]

Science is probably fixable by giving the scum a 1-shot kill.

[GreyICE]

Well if they shoot N1 and hit a VT, then they're VERY likely to lose.

I suppose another fix at 7p is just make both the scum vengeful and remove the night kill entirely. That might make it fairly town sided though.

Ha! Solution.

Scum share a vengeful (first scum dies gets one), town loses if all VTs are dead, regardless of the number of living masons.

[GreyICE]

Yeah but 2:3:2 is going to result in a town win like maybe 1 game in 5.

I like the idea of the 1 shared vengeful and the town losing when they run out of VTs. It's more-or-less true to the original flavor (Masons versus Scum, with town sandwich) but makes the town important.

More and more I think 7Ps just don't really work with a full night kill. It's too powerful.

[GreyICE]

If scum have lost two or three members and HAVEN'T earned any town cred they deserve their loss.

That being said all nightless setups that size suffer from the same thing - the more scum get lynched, the longer the game goes. 7:4 can be done in 3 lynches, but if one is scum, it takes 5, and then if another one hits scum it takes 7. Third scum? 9. It gets more and more and more painful for the scum and the town.

[GreyICE]

Yeah well fuck proper, the point is to have a good game.

[GreyICE]

You'd be shocked and appalled how often scum shoot confirmed town in no-lynching town. What with them all being CONFIRMED TOWN and such.

[GreyICE]

3 Mafia doctors

If a mafia member is targeted by two doctors of opposite alignments, they are unprotected.

That breaks the circle protect strategy, and essentially gives the mafia similar scum protecting power, and MORE town protecting power (for why this is pro-scum, the vig shots were being used as cop investigations - more ways to funk up vig shots is pro scum). It also makes it very possible to 'double protect' a vig target, especially a town vig target, even with two confirmed vigs.