[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[DarthYoshi]

Maf framer is such a swingy role that it, + the 2 cops makes Bad Tweed a really hard setup to balance, but if we can find a way to balance having a framer in an open setup, it'd be nice to keep it around.

Also--I had a small setup in the open thread discussion thread that I hope to run when I /in to the Open queue next (hopefully later this month), and it got nommed, so if y'all want to discuss it here, it'd be sweet. I think I called it "Medical School of Hard Knocks" or something similar:

1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Goon

1 Town-Aligned Tracker
2 Town-Aligned Armed Compulsive Doctors
4 Vanilla Townies

Special mechanics:

The ACDs are doctors who must protect every night. If their protection is ever successful, they are notified, stripped of their protect power, and given a one-shot vig ability.

The mafia has a factional one-shot strongman ability.

Day start.

[DarthYoshi]

Can the Role Cop kill and investigate in the same night?

Yes.

[DarthYoshi]

Can the Role Cop kill and investigate in the same night?

Yes.

Let me ask you something; do you think a setup with 2 Goons, 3 Innocent Childs and 4 Townies would be balanced?

No. Though that's not this setup.

[DarthYoshi]

No. Though that's not this setup.

What do you think prevents a Day 1 massclaim essentially making it this setup? It's not rational for scum to counterclaim Doctor, as they're forced to leave at least one alive, enabling the town one or two Doc protections each night. It's not rational for scum to counterclaim Tracker - as it gives town a 50/50 on Day 1 straight up. Assuming this, the setup does become 3 Innocent Childs, with the added bonus of a couple more chances for night powers to do something. The Doctors can then either protect two players amongst the three, forcing scum to either gamble (and give them a free vig kill if they miss) or use their Strongman kill. Presuming they do use the Strongman, the town will either have two Doctors (scum won't do that), or a Doctor and a Tracker. This means the Tracker gets two uses of its action (N1 and N2) for free, plus the benefits of a 3-player open masonry for PoE.

Even if town played it normally, the Doctor-into-Vig role is probably too overpowered on its own. If a successful save is effected, you've done three things; you've prevented a scum-kill (handy), which leaves the town in even numbers. This in turn enables a vig shot to not cost a mislynch (super handy) AND it also confirms a townie (extremely handy). If the Doc-vig claims, it confirms itself and another player, plus a free kill the next night. That's too much swing for guessing one scumkill right.

Fair 'nuff. I'll take it back to the drawing board and see what I can come up with. Probably need to remove the tracker at the very least, maybe give scum a roleblocker (the horror, etc). Thanks, Hoopla.

[DarthYoshi]

Hard Boiled

- Is partially broken. The ratio of unique confirmable roles is too high, that is makes a claiming strategy Day 1 usually always optimal, especially when you can keep the vig safely hidden and use it to get two town kills to every one scum kill, forcing scum to pick of the claimed PR's. Needs either an extra player, one less role, scum having a PR or maybe a combination of all three.

This setup is popular enough and has a strong, unique flavour about it that it shouldn't be binned, but it does need to be fixed. I'll get ABR in here to see what he wants to do with it.

I agree with Hard Boiled needing an extra player--I think that is the easiest remedy for it. Honestly, the setup has a track record of being scum-sided in its results so far, and I would oppose adding a scum PR to the setup for that reason. The town PRs are numerous but fairly weak, all things considered.

[DarthYoshi]

Faith Plus One

- This setup has four variants, so we really ought to just pick one and use it if people like it. I know it was played recently. Is there anyone here that played or read the game? What did they think of the setup? To me, it doesn't have that X-factor about it, and I think there are some people who think %-based roles are kind of meh. It feels a little scum-sided too. Again, would like others to weigh in on this one.

Speaking as the setup creator--the reason it was made was back in the spring when people discussed the brokenness of the basic 12p, I wanted to make a setup that allowed for both cop + doc roles without having to fall back on more cliched counters like maf roleblockers, macho cops, etc. Faith +1 is what resulted from that. If I had to pick one variant to go with, it'd be 1 doc + 1 ineffective doc + 1 cop. If it feels a little scum-sided, I am happy to work on that as well.

Follow The Cop... Or Not

- Doesn't seemed balanced for an 11-player game. That's one less lynch, and the Cop has two possible ways of collecting false or no results. I don't think I'd want to be town in this setup. Not a fan of this setup, but I think I remember someone liking it?

I actually hated being scum in this setup. A RB is very little firepower against a cop, doc, and tracker, and it is pretty easy for the town to win via massclaim by D2 or D3.

I like its special mechanic, though, and would like to see the setup modified rather than binned.

PEdit: If HB had to go w/out one of the PRs, I'd say based on my experience with the setup I liked the detective/psychologist role the least. May just be me, though.