[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[TemporalLich]

Pocket Splash

11 players

2 Mafia Goons

2 Werewolves

1 Town 1-Shot Alignment Cop

6 Vanilla Townies

This game has a Dusk (or 1st half of Night) Start. The Mafia alters the playerlist order during the Dusk phase. Failing to do so will generate a random playerlist order. If all Mafiosi are dead, Dusk phases are skipped and the Werewolves alter the playerlist order.

After that comes Midnight (or 2nd half of Night), where the Werewolves are notified in their PT of the Mafia's playerlist order and may swap one pair of players in the playerlist. If all Werewolves are dead, Midnight phases are skipped.

There are no factional nightkills in this game.

The Day phase comes afterward, where players vote to lynch a player. However, lynching a player in this game not only lynches that player, but also the the player before and after in the playerlist. (wrapping around if a player at either end of the playerlist is lynched)

Lynching is compulsive. That means plurality voting is in effect and voting No Lynch is not allowed.

The Town 1-Shot Alignment Cop submits their action during any time, and gets results in the form of

Town

,

Mafia

, or

Werewolf

.

Mafia and Werewolves may communicate privately at any time.

Either scumteam wins when the other scumteam is dead and they control 50% of the votes.

2 Mafiosi, 2 Werewolves, and 1 Townie is a draw for both scumteams (townies still lose).

Mini variant of Splash Damage (this is 2:2:7, while Splash Damage is 3:3:11). Should last a maximum of 3 cycles instead of 5.

I intend to potentially run this as a marathon (if I qualify).

[TemporalLich]

idk if that means town need more power, less power, or just a more direct influence.

if it's that the town needs less power I could just use an Activated Innocent Child

[TemporalLich]

If the goal of the setup is to reduce the original Splash damage, I'd suggest reducing it out of multiball (a guess would be that 8v3 is more appropriate with just mafia choose list order). If the goal is to marathon-ize splash damage, it's already a fairly decent marathon setup if you can get the people for it. It's relatively short, there's no huge problem to meme-lynches and it's mechanically simple enough to pull off, assuming you think you can keep track of a 17p votecount in real time.

Ignore the math, I calculated awfully and don't have the time to fix it atm.

I'm gonna have to agree. Splash Damage is actually doable as a marathon, though I'd put this as a Mini version of Splash Damage.

One-fold Splash Damage

11 players

3 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies

This game has a Night Start. The Mafia alters the playerlist order during the Night phase. Failing to do so will generate a random playerlist order.

There are no factional nightkills in this game.

The Day phase comes afterward, where players vote to lynch a player. However, lynching a player in this game not only lynches that player, but also the the player before and after in the playerlist. (wrapping around if a player at either end of the playerlist is lynched)

Lynching is compulsive. That means plurality voting is in effect and voting No Lynch is not allowed.

Mafia may communicate privately at any time.

Mafia win when they control 50% of the votes.

Alternate names include Collateral Damage and Splash Damage Basic

Alternate names do not include Splash Mountainous

[TemporalLich]

A simple setup featuring the Moonlight Dancer role:

Moonlight Dancer

13 players

1 Werewolf Moonlight Dancer

2 Werewolves

2 Town Moonlight Dancers

8 Vanilla Townies

Moonlight Dancers may PM the moderator at any time saying "Dance in the Moonlight" once per phase.

The moderator will then post "{playername} dances and howls in the moonlight." immediately when a Moonlight Dancer dances in the moonlight.

Days and Nights happen as normal, Werewolves have a factional kill and daytalk.

not sure how original this idea is though...

[TemporalLich]

Yeah moonlight dancer is pretty much a named role that can mod-confirm their named role at any time. (unlike what I'd call a "Superstar", a moonlight dancer can repeatedly confirm themselves)

Since it pretty much just leads to a 2:1 "associative group", it mostly is useful for finding the scum dancer, though scum dancer has no incentive to dance early.

I could turn a VT into a third town dancer, but that makes you less likely to find scum in the dancer group than the non-dancer group.

[TemporalLich]

Nobility and The Dark Angel

12 players

1 Dark Angel

2 Mafia Goons

9 Vanilla Townies

In addition to voting for lynches, the Town may also vote to elect a noble for the next day. Noble election is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

An elected noble is announced to have an extra lynch vote, and counts as two people for lynch majority. If the Dark Angel is ever an elected noble, the game instantly ends in a Town win, with the Mafia and Dark Angel losing.

A Noble election vote can either use bold e.g.

ELECT: TemporalLich

or or heal tags e.g. HEAL: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and elect the same player. Voting No Noble is allowed.

There is no Noble vote during LYLO. (2 townies and 1 mafioso are alive, or 3 townies and 2 mafiosi are alive. This is regardless of whether the Dark Angel is alive or not.)

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt to appoint a hidden noble. The mafia may multitask.

A hidden noble has an extra lynch vote. They count as one person for lynch majority. A hidden noble knows they are a hidden noble, but hidden nobility is not public.

The Mafia may not kill the noble that has been elected the previous day.

If the Mafia appoints the Dark Angel as a hidden noble, the Dark Angel exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dark Angel instantly loses if they become a noble. The Dark Angel wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dark Angel dies.

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dark Angel becomes an elected noble.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

I forgot to push this to review x_x

[TemporalLich]

3:2:1 is considered to be LYLO by the game, so the Dark Angel should have already secured the win at that point

[TemporalLich]

as of now here's what I'd do with the Nobility and the Dark Angel setup:

To avoid weird endgames, make the Dark Angel autowin if it gets to a LYLO scenario with them in it.

Disable both kinds of nobility altogether (both elections and votes) if a LYLO scenario ever happens. Basically with this and the above change, LYLOs are played out like normal Mafia.

Make it clearer hidden nobility is for non-Mafia (unless allowing Mafia to hidden noble themselves is more fun).

[TemporalLich]

Nobility and The Dark Angel v1.4

12 players

1 Dark Angel

2 Mafia Goons

9 Vanilla Townies

In addition to voting for lynches, the Town may also vote to elect a noble for the next day. Noble election is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

An elected noble is announced to have an extra lynch vote, and counts as two people for lynch majority. If the Dark Angel is ever an elected noble, the game instantly ends in a Town win, with the Mafia and Dark Angel losing.

A Noble election vote can either use bold e.g.

ELECT: TemporalLich

or or heal tags e.g. HEAL: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and elect the same player. Voting No Noble is allowed.

There are no Nobles, Hidden Nobles, Noble elections, or Hidden Noble appointments during LYLO.

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt to appoint a hidden noble. The mafia may multitask.

A hidden noble has an extra lynch vote. They count as one person for lynch majority. A hidden noble knows they are a hidden noble, but hidden nobility is not public.

The Mafia may not kill the noble that has been elected the previous day.

If the Mafia appoints the Dark Angel as a hidden noble, the Dark Angel exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dark Angel instantly loses if they become a noble. The Dark Angel wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dark Angel dies.

The Dark Angel exits the game in a win if the game hits what would be LYLO without the Dark Angel (2 townies and 1 mafioso, or 3 townies and 2 mafiosi).

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dark Angel becomes an elected noble.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

Dark Angel wins and exits the game in 2:1:1 and 3:2:1, nobility is disabled altogether in LYLO.

This version still allows Mafiosi to be hidden nobles, because otherwise hidden nobility would allow for ICs (which is kinda unfun tbh).

[TemporalLich]

hmm, Angel winrate is pretty low but still in the acceptable range...

how bad would it be if I made Nobility and The Dark Angel a 13p (10:2:1) setup with compulsive lynching and electing? (since 43% town is in acceptable range but the doublevoter power makes this a bit more scumsided than EV can tell you...)

[TemporalLich]

Nobility and The Dark Angel v1.6

13 players

1 Dark Angel

2 Mafia Goons

10 Vanilla Townies

In addition to voting for lynches, the Town may also vote to elect a noble for the next day. Noble election is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

An elected noble is announced to have an extra lynch vote, and counts as two people for lynch majority. If the Dark Angel is ever an elected noble, the game instantly ends in a Town win, with the Mafia and Dark Angel losing.

A Noble election vote can either use bold e.g.

ELECT: TemporalLich

or or heal tags e.g. HEAL: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and elect the same player. Voting No Noble is allowed.

There are no Nobles, Hidden Nobles, Noble elections, or Hidden Noble appointments during LYLO. LYLO happens if the game reaches 2:1 or 3:2 and lasts for the rest of the game.

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt to appoint a hidden noble. This cannot be the same target as the nightkill. The mafia may multitask.

A hidden noble has an extra lynch vote. They count as one person for lynch majority. A hidden noble knows they are a hidden noble, but hidden nobility is not public.

The Mafia may not kill the noble that has been elected the previous day.

If the Mafia appoints the Dark Angel as a hidden noble, the Dark Angel exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dark Angel instantly loses if they become a noble. The Dark Angel wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dark Angel dies.

The Dark Angel exits the game in a win if the game hits what would be LYLO without the Dark Angel (2 townies and 1 mafioso, or 3 townies and 2 mafiosi).

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town. The Mafia are endgamed if the Dark Angel becomes an elected noble.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dark Angel becomes an elected noble.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

Added a tenth VT (making this setup start at odds, thus removing the need for compulsive lynching and nobling). This is probably the best balanced this setup can get, and the strictly better EVs make adding a tenth VT a no-brainer.

[TemporalLich]

A really bad setup idea:

Progressive Mafia

2 Mafia Goons

11 Vanilla Townies

Town may lynch up to N times each day, where N is the cycle number.

Mafia may make N factional nightkills each night.

I'm pretty sure anyone actually trying to calculate the EV for this vanilla variant will burst into a phoenix.

[TemporalLich]

A shitpost-quality semi-open setup that can either be multiball or not be multiball.

Multiball or Not?

13 players

Randomly decide between the Multiball or Non-Multiball setup.

Multiball Setup

2 Mafia Goons

2 Werewolves

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot Seer

6 Vanilla Townies

Non-Multiball Setup

3 Mafia Goons

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot Seer

7 Vanilla Townies

[TemporalLich]

Wouldn't informed townie just spoil this at d1?

They wouldn't know until the start of Day 3

[TemporalLich]

I think you want the investigative to check mafia, not wolves, so that it doesn't incidentally determine which setup you're in, right?

That was intended as a counterbalance as the multiball setup looked a little scumsided. And Masonizer is already a mafia-investigative in spirit.

[TemporalLich]

probably save the seer shot for a mason recruit, that seems like a pretty good way to boost town winrate?

As in a "not-mafia" 1-shot Masonizer or a "confirmed town" 1-shot True Masonizer?

[TemporalLich]

Multiball or Not? v1.1

13 players

Randomly decide between the Multiball or Non-Multiball setup.

Multiball Setup

2 Mafia Goons

2 Werewolves

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot True Masonizer

(adds someone to the True Mason Lodge once in the game during night. This only works on a Town-aligned target.)

6 Vanilla Townies

Non-Multiball Setup

3 Mafia Goons

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot True Masonizer

(adds someone to the True Mason Lodge once in the game during night. This only works on a Town-aligned target.)

7 Vanilla Townies

v1.1 with Gamma Emerald's change

[TemporalLich]

An interesting setup to EV but probably still too boring for actual play:

Two Deputies

9 players

2

Mafia Goons

2

Town Deputies

5

Vanilla Townies

All roles work exactly like their Normal counterparts.
Deputy is a special name for Backup Cop.

[TemporalLich]

think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.

yeah that kinda breaks it into 7p Cop

oh well I'm not good at making EV setups

[TemporalLich]

still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people

...it'll be worth something.

I have a feeling the NRG might deem Two Deputies an Inadvertent Mountainous setup though...

I like the idea of dual backups for a negative feedback element though.

[TemporalLich]

The intent in Two Deputies is to have actual "dual backups" where if one Deputy dies the other becomes a Cop. If backups could not backup backups, you'd effectively have a Two Named Townie setup which counts as Inadvertent Mountainous.

If the strategy in Two Deputies isn't always to have one of the deputies claim then eliminate the claimed deputy, it would be quite an interesting setup I feel.

[TemporalLich]

(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)

Technically it’s neither of those. It’s slightly more power than either case. In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate) and in the other it’s got the odds of a cop becoming apparent.

Regardless to get EV you’d run the calculations on both models and pick the higher one, but I’m not convinced it’s a setup where EV is the right approach to balance.

good point

EV would definitely miss something actually, it might require playtesting maybe