[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Kmd4390]

So, I stopped modding games for quite a while, but recently took over a game where the Mod flaked and am enjoying it. I proposed a change to an old setup a while back hoping someone could run it because I loved playing it. I didn't get a ton of feedback, but none of what I got was negative. I'd kind of like to just mod it myself to try to bring it back and reading the OP in the queue, if I'm not mistaken, it looks like all I need is Llama's approval here.

So here's the setup:

I want to propose a setup from the old days that I loved. Back in 2009, we played Paris Mafia:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=10489&hilit=paris+mafia

The old setup was:
5 VT
2 mafia goons
2 mimes (Jester team. Wins when both are lynched. Own a joint RB at night)
1 town watcher
1 town vig

The reason it was scrapped, if I'm not mistaken, was that it was scum sided and near impossible for mimes to win. It never got any attention, but postgame I suggested the following:
7 VT
2 mafia goons
2 mimes
1 town watcher
1 town vig

The town has an extra day to try catching the scum and the mimes have an extra day to try to get lynched. The extra day balances any concerns that scum may have too much of an advantage with the mime distraction or whatever else. I've always loved games with jesters and those who disagree can simply avoid this game with it being an open setup. The mime aspect just adds to the fun of jester games and it's not impossible. Even in the old setup, I got myself lynched as mime and having an extra day could help the second mime to get lynched as well. At the very least, I think it deserves one run.

[Kmd4390]

I actually don't think it needs to be. If scum aren't shooting mimes, no lynching hurts town and helps scum.

[Kmd4390]

I actually don't think it needs to be. If scum aren't shooting mimes, no lynching hurts town and helps scum.

What happesn if the 1st mime is killed and the 2nd mime is still alive? I think the 2nd mime should exit the game (ie. endgamed) if the 1st mime is dead.

I need to research it from the first games, but I think you're right.

Edit: You're right. It happened in the screwed up version when one mime was modkilled. The other mime is listed as "died day 1".

[Kmd4390]

I think your setup is good, as long as you endgamed 1 mime v 1 town v 1 mafia for Mime-Mafia joint win.

Why would you do that?

Mime lynch = mime win
Scum lynch = town win
Town lynch = scum win

[Kmd4390]

I thought mime lynch = mine and scum win? Do mimes win alone?

Yes

Edit: Wait, I see what you are asking. Lemme get back to you.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, that would just be a mime win. The instant that the second mime is lynched, the mimes have reached their win condition, meaning scum and town both lose.

[Kmd4390]

By that logic, you should never use third party in any game ever

[Kmd4390]

Waited for fire and ice to finish before responding because talking about this during a 2:1:1 involving realeo and myself could have influenced that.

It's more fun to leave it to the players and let it play out. There are enough options and possible scenarios that the makeup of the playerlist can change what happens and that is more fun than picking a winner before it comes up. I have to say that the 2:1:1 I just played in, while admittedly screwy as fuck, was one of the most fun endgames I've been a part of in a long time.

If it was me, as mime, I wouldn't vote anyone unless I was self hammering. Also wouldn't accept a no lynch. I'd probably try to push as hard as possible that town NEEDS to lynch scum to have any shot. If someone claims scum or mime, I'd have to decide whether to claim scum or not. It's a risk at being outted, but might get town to vote me. So already you see ideas playing out here.

Now as scum, I'd need a town lynch or no lynch. I'd want the no lynch bad, so I might refuse to vote and/or claim mime. Town might be scared to vote me and a mime wouldn't want me lynched. Actually, being lynched as scum should be impossible. I'd probably push that idea to stop town from lynching. If I give off the idea I'm better at theory or a better player, it might work. But if town is smart (or has common sense), they'll take their best guess at lynching scum for the win. So if the mime counterclaims, it's not very believable. Or mime claims scum. Then scum goes "oh shit". So that would get fun fast.

As town, the idea is to figure out who is mime and who is scum and lynch correctly. Now, because of the scenarios above, I'd probably lynch anyone who makes an initial mime claim in theory. But in practice, you have to figure out who is trying to be lynched and who is trying not to be lynched. Asking about NKs and reasoning behind them helps too. In that fire and ice game, town claimed scum and that was followed by a genuine scum claim. I was scum myself, so to figure out which claim was real, I asked about NKs and could tell who actually made them so it definitely can work. But this is a fun WIFOM headache for town.

Also worth mentioning is that the odds of this 1:1:1 coming up are far from 100%. Any scenario that ends the game before 3p eliminates it. Any scenario where scum is eliminated before 3p ends it (this brings up another situation. See next paragraph). Any scenario where a mime is NK'd or both are lynched (therefore winning) before 3p eliminates it. Or scum winning with 2 living members.

Now, on the scenario with scum being eliminated before mimes. Do you keep playing? There's no scum NK so mimes are either killed by the vig, lynched, or survive. The original game shows the town win condition as winning "when all threats to the town are eliminated". So if the vig is gone, things get complicated again. I need to sort this and wouldn't mind opinions. Calling it a draw seems lame. Calling it a mime win seems lame, especially if neither of the two was lynched. And calling it a town win seems lame when they didn't eliminate mimes. But maybe this just means the town win condition needs to change because town no lynching repeatedly results in the mimes not being able to win so maybe town win is the best scenario there? They eliminated the scum team, so they did their job.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, I'm pretty positive it was a one faction wins kind of game. Endgaming mimes if scum are eliminated makes sense to me.