Open 337: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[bv310]

/confirmed. Also, the following people are scum: Malpascp, Isa

Discuss.

[bv310]

Isa and Malpascp are scum. Discuss.

vote: Malpascp

[bv310]

Vote: Collyer

For not having an avatar.

This is a very valid point.

unvote, vote: Collyer

[bv310]

I claim Town Roleblocking unlimited-shot vig, with a PGO ability, and an unlimited investigation that I can use separately from the other abilities.

Seriously, I haven't figured out if he's scum or if he's actually this dumb. Either way,

vote: pinkfloyd

[bv310]

Thanks Rock.

But yeah..... I'm town....

No, you're not.

More pinkfloyd votes please. Even if he is Town, which he's not, he's only going to act as a massive distraction to all of us.

[bv310]

It's not that you're slightly annoying, I'm fine with that. It's the fact that you seem to be actively trying to avoid real conversation in favour of something that is inherently anti-town. If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss.

[bv310]

Well.... I promise to stop posting from a fun perspective and start being serious....

This is not what I'm asking for, and you know it. I don't want you to stop having fun, I want you to play to your wincon. If you win when all members of the mafia are eliminated, as the opening post states is the wincon for town, then playing as you are is actively harming all those of us with the same wincon. I know this might seem douche-y, but it's simply a question of what is the most dangerous for us to keep around. Right now, it's you, since your shenaniganistic playstyle is likely to give scum an opening to hide behind.

[bv310]

It's not that you're slightly annoying, I'm fine with that. It's the fact that you seem to be actively trying to avoid real conversation in favour of something that is inherently anti-town. If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss.

This is not a fair case to be made at all. If anything, it's trapping play. The problem with trying to trap someone like you are, is that it could be town slipping up, and thus you find yourself removing the trap and finding nothing but Vanilla Townie or worse... a Town Powerrole. I see this happen a lot. While RVS should not be ignored, it shouldn't EVER be the basis for a wagon. Not RVS alone.

And your statement is definitely untrue. Unfortunately for me, the position of proof isn't mine. So if you care to elaborate, please prove your point that "if we keep him around, he's likely to continue this distracting play." And then I'll more then gladly prove in many, MANY games people starting off JUST LIKE HIM, only to become very good town players after the RVS stage / Day 1.

This is bad, for a number of reasons. It is textbook scum play.

vote: neil1113

[bv310]

The way I saw Neil's post, it looked like scum trying to distance themselves from an impending (mis)lynch. He tries to add fear to the situation, when he says that it could hit a Townie, or worse, a POWERROLE. To me, this is blatant fearmongering. He then tries to call my posting entrapment, which it isn't. What I'm doing is trying to argue for a wagon based on the interaction currently.

I also especially love the Appeal to Ethics he tries in the second paragraph. Arguing that in other completely unrelated games, OTHER players can start off acting dumb, only to switch in to effective players once outside of RVS.

Neil, the Burden of Proof IS on you, not me. You are saying that Pinkfloyd specifically gets better once outside of RVS, and that wagoning him now is a bad thing. You are saying that my argument is wrong. You are responsible for proving that Pinkfloyd is NOT going to continue being annoying (which he admitted he does).

I'd also like to ask you what purpose your post was meant to have. Did you want to try and reverse the pressure on to me from PF? Were you trying to just break any momentum we were starting to build? What were you trying to say?

[bv310]

/prod-dodging. Sorry, birthday weekend shenanigans have kinda limited my reasoning powers today. Will attempt to get some work in on this tomorrow. In the mean time, anyone have any direct questions for me?

[bv310]

In the mean time, anyone have any direct questions for me?

Yeah, did you ever believe in your case on pink enough to see him lynched today?

Absolutely not. It's page 4. If anything, I wanted to put enough pressure on him to try and get reactions from everyone else, then try and find scum that way. That's why I hated when Neil jumped in and white-knighted him, and then when I turned to Neil, his reaction read to me as really scummy.

Also, I've spoilered Neil's post to make this easier.

Spoiler: Neil's Post

Instead of quoting your whole thing and making a wall, I sifted through the useless stuff and brought out your actual points.

1. "He tries to add fear to the situation, when he says that it could hit a Townie, or worse, a POWERROLE. To me, this is blatant fearmongering."

Your opinion on what I said, was that because I was cautious with your faulty attempt at a case, I was fearmongering? Me saying you could hit a powerrole is me being cautious, not trying to cast fear onto anyone. Truth be told, you could say ANYTIME you lynch someone, you could hit a powerrole. But it'd be to no advantage. I wasn't discouraging a lynch, I was discouraging a lynch based on faulty reasoning.

2. "He then tries to call my posting entrapment, which it isn't."

I love how you throw the word in "tries." I'm pretty sure Me: "If anything, it's trapping play" was me calling your play trapping. There was nothing "attempted" there. It was blantantly called out. But grammar and punctuation aside, your quote here:

"If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss"

(which could also be considered fear mongering you hypocrite.. oh no, if we keep him around we lose??) that post above is a trap. No matter what he says, you can twist to use against him because you set it up perfectly here. Now it's a "you're only talking because I'm pressuring you, let's lynch him anyways" or a "see now you're not making a good enough defense, you're obviously going to be a distraction goodbye! lynch time!" Either way, no matter what he does, you've now successfully set up a potential lynch. And if you're scum, a mislynch which is a perfect chance. I've played enough games as scum to know a scum mindset and a scummy trapping play when I see it.

3. "You are saying that Pinkfloyd specifically gets better once outside of RVS, and that wagoning him now is a bad thing. You are saying that my argument is wrong."

This is so misrepresenting what I said, it's not even funny. First and foremost, this isn't even my case. Show me anywhere in my posting where I stated anything that you just said I stated. You're a liar, simply put. I never said Pink gets better, nor did I say a wagon on him is a bad thing. I never even really called your argument wrong, just faulty. My original post is here so people can compare what you said I said, to what I really said and see how you've completely pulled your accusation out of your butt. I explained your play was trapping, explained why it was bad, explained the possible result, and even clarified that my problem wasn't with Pink, it was with your fault case. I clarified that when I stated that "I'll gladly prove how many people JUST LIKE HIM..." It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.

4. "I'd also like to ask you what purpose your post was meant to have."

You're right but let me clarify. What I wanted was: I wanted to stop the wagon from developing on something faulty such as your case. I wanted to call you out for obvious entrapment, scummy play deserves to be called scummy. I wanted the town to approach the situation you created cautiously, and not blindly. And I wanted to see your reaction. Unfortunately, for the last part you've started to confirm to me that you're scum-motivated and not town-motivated like I was expecting. You can attack me for pointing out your faulty case all day long, but either way the spot light will stay between us which is exactly where I'm comfortable with it being. I have nothing to hide, but I'm pretty sure you do.

1. This is reasonable, but is not what your post reads as to me. To me, it reads as an attempt to quickly shut down a fledgling wagon by trying to spread a fear of the potential for an unknown role to be a PR.

2. You calling my posting entrapment does not make it so. The second part is just blatant misrepping my post. I'm not "Setting up a mislynch", I'm setting up a wagon. Wagons and vote analysis are the two best ways to find scum, and only one of those is available to us on D1.

3. I understand this as well, but again it's not how the post reads to me. To me, it just looks like you're trying to make a specific case in to a broad one in order to try and "wash your hands" of what you saw as an incoming lynch.

4. Keeping the spotlight between us two only is AWFUL and extremely anti-town. Even if one of us turns out to be Mafia and get lynched today, the other is going to be killed tonight and then the Town is left with basically nothing else on D2, except one scum dead and a few reactions. It is much more beneficial to get everyone's opinions and concrete statements and, more importantly, DISCUSSION.

In that vein, I'd like to ask everyone, especially Cav, what they think of the exchange between me and Neil so far (specifically whether they think one of us is wrong and one right, if we're both right, if we're both wrong, or whatever else)

[bv310]

Also, protip: don't get drunk and go on MS. Post 46 is the kind of thing that develops.

[bv310]

vote: pinkfloyd

There's been plenty to comment on. Now you're just trying to avoid giving your opinions.

Hi guys
Just saying I'll catch up with the game by this evening after class.

• Votecount 1-6
  
  
  
  pinkfloyd
  - (4)
  Thomas
  ,
  Fakinha
  ,
  Isa
  ,
  bv310
  [L-1]
  
  
  Isa
  - (1)
  pinkfloyd
  
  
  princesskdw
  - (1)
  Collyer
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  neil1113
  ,
  Cav
  ,
  Shinki
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  9
  alive, it takes
  5
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 1 is Sunday October 9th, 12:00PM UTC

[bv310]

So after our nit-picking fight about your ridiculous attempt at starting a RVS wagon, we're back to square one. Do I think you're scum? Not exactly, but you're far from clear in my book. So I want to know, where do you think we should go in this game? Should the town pressure a lurker? Target one of us? Pressure Pink?

All of these. We need, more than anything else, to get action in this game. Any or all of those are valid options. I'm a fan of pressuring lurkers, but that's just me knowing how much harder I lurk as scum.

[bv310]

I'm highly interested in Collyer and Neil's opinions on the start of the day and yesterday's actions, given the flips we have now. I think I might have seen something in a reaction to Neil and I want to see if anyone else notices, or whether I'm just crazy.

[bv310]

We don't need to replace half of everybody, but it's going to be a massive uphill struggle since nobody has any vested interest in the game any more.

[bv310]

/prodded. Will get some thoughts up this weekend. Midterms have committed war crimes on my mind

[bv310]

Isa, if you have the time to go through my post history, you would probably notice that they're all only a few lines. This is because I have a midterm in 45 minutes worth 30% of my mark. If you think this game is more important than my grades, then I'd kindly ask you to give your head a shake. I promised I'd post when I had time to read well, and I will do that.