Open 337: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Thomas]

/confirm

[Thomas]

Vote: Collyer

For not having an avatar.

[Thomas]

And Collyer is at L-2? #whatdidImiss?

Two votes for no avatar and one OMGUS vote. Collyer has an avatar now though so I will:

Unvote: Collyer

[Thomas]

Hey pinkfloyd, do you like Comfortably Numb?

Neil, Thomas, neither of you are voting someone. Join this wagon. In fact, everyone else, you're just wasting your vote on the RVS, so gather round.

I'll pass. I did take my vote off early because Collyer was at L-2 in RVS but I don't want to vote pinkfloyd because I think he's just screwing around. He is known for an erratic play style right?

Actually, screw that, it's still RVS right?

Vote: pinkfloyd

[Thomas]

And you just put me at L-2.... awkward....
Guess I have to claim.

I am Vanilla Townie. YAY!

You're at L-3... I checked to see why you thought you were at L-2 and I think it's because bv310 didn't unvote.

[Thomas]

Well, I'm used to playing 12 player games and you should always claim at L-2 in those.... either way I feel I was going to get another vote anyway.

This is 9 player and RVS.

[Thomas]

Thomas, Pinkfloyd, thoughts on Collyer/Neil debate?

Well bv was making some weak accusations at Neil and called it "textbook scum play" then he never went on and explained why. The things bv pointed out look more like null tells than scum tells so no, not textbook scum play. As for the Collyer/Neil debate, I don't like Neil's attitude after Collyer pointed out the contradiction in Neil's posts whether it was a contradiction or not. I do think that Collyer is picking apart posts too much though.

[Thomas]

Thomas, you've contributed very little as well. Three of your votes are RVS votes, two are about pink's early claim, and this is the last; which I don't like. I might be picking apart too much, but I'm asking questions. The irony is that your taking your reads from the answers that I'm getting, or at least trying to get. What do you mean by Neil's attitude?

I haven't had as much time as I expected for this game but I was recently night killed in an ongoing game on another site so I hope that will give me more time for this game. The game is really slow at this time too because 2 people haven't posted in over a week and apparently people don't want to replace into a 4 page game. Asking questions is fine and I have no problem with that but picking apart posts too much is different. As for Neil's attitude, I was talking about this: "Oh my, that absolutely does appear to be a contradiction."

[Thomas]

Man, is anyone gonna replace BobbyDrakeIceman or malpascp yet? It's been 11 days.

In that vein, I'd like to ask everyone, especially Cav, what they think of the exchange between me and Neil so far (specifically whether they think one of us is wrong and one right, if we're both right, if we're both wrong, or whatever else)

Both of you have made some good points but I don't exactly think that both of you are right but you're not necessarily wrong either. I'm not sure if you were actually trying to lynch pinkfloyd so early (you said you didn't intend to) but it sure sounded like you did and neil explained why lynching one solely from actions in RVS is bad, so you called that textbook scum play which I disagree with. Perhaps you didn't realize that, from the point of view of others, it looked like you really wanted to lynch pinkfloyd when you actually didn't want to. I think that neil thought you really were trying to lynch pinkfloyd so early which led to him saying that stuff and I agree with what he said. Now you guys are still arguing about the early part of the argument and you're picking apart posts a little too much. I also think that your argument has taken up the spotlight and made it harder to get reads on others but the major factor is that this game is extremely slow. The game started 11 days ago and I can't think of any good reads I have. Post more guys!

[Thomas]

I already posted about that. How about instead of calling me a lurker you read my posts.

Gabbady goof.

Active Lurking.

I don't have much time to write anything else at this time but I should have more time in around 15 hours.

[Thomas]

Collyer - Semi-Active
pinkfloyd - Active
Cav - Semi-Active
Isa - Active
Thomas - ???
Fakinha - Active
bv310 - Active
Shinki - Active
neil1113 - Semi-Active

Something wrong with this picture.

It looks to me that this is based of the number of posts people have made. You have Collyer as semi-actime with 8 posts and this is my 11th now and I have "???". Pinkfloyd had made 25 posts of mostly BS and I have made 10 posts with at least the same level of contribution as pinkfloyd or perhaps more.

I already posted about that. How about instead of calling me a lurker you read my posts.

Gabbady goof.

Active Lurking.

I don't have much time to write anything else at this time but I should have more time in around 15 hours.

This might be the most hypocritical post of the game. Since nobody wants to talk, and we have no real leads, I'm going to go for a hypocritical lurker. Better chance there at the moment.

It did occur to me that posting that could be hypocritical but I needed to prod-dodge and I didn't have enough time to write anything useful because it was past 12am. Would you prefer if I wrote random comments like pinkfloyd? As for my 15 hours guess, my internet is being really slow and it sometimes stopped working for a while and it's still sort of doing this so I didn't have the time to post earlier today.

Thomas -

Do you have anything to say to my accusations against you? You said you had more to post in 15 hours, what did you have to say? Did you catch something in this game that we've missed? Were you going to pressure someone? If so, who? Come on Thomas, don't lurk and try to call out people for lurking.

I responded the your accusations in the last quote. There was nothing I thought I needed to comment on made before my last post and 15 hours later I was anticipating that there would be more to comment on but there wasn't and my internet was acting up anyway.

[Thomas]

So... umm... any leads? :s

I'll start with VOTE: neil1113

Because of #127.

Discuss, people.

Can you explain what in post #127 makes you vote neil? Was it a particular question he asked someone or something else? I must be missing something here because I found #111 to be strange but I don't see anything wrong with #127.

[Thomas]

Only 1 new post?

@MOD:

You should send a private message to people at the start of the day to let people know the day has started. I never got a pm.

[Thomas]

So neil, is your vote on Fakinha OMGUS?

So you're the second scum as I though, Isa. Work done for me, rest is up to the town.

This looks like OMGUS. I don't think calling neil scum is really OMGUS though because you accused him first.

This was not the case. Did you read the case? I laid it out pretty clearly, two different times

ON THIS PAGE

and yet you still completely misrepped and deceitfully twisted my words. This, combined with everything else I've mentioned, is enough for me to warrant that you're not coming from a town's point of view in your posts and you're looking to play to your win condition, which in this case from what I see from your posts, is to eliminate townies.

Actually I take Fakinha's side here because if you look at post #127, you can see that you listed all players and how active they were based on posts and for my name you put "???" when I had more posts than others that you called "Semi-Active." You are twisting things around.

I have a null read on Fakinha right now and null-slight scum read on neil. I can't get good reads on many others though because this game is slow. I would like to hear more from bv and Collyer.

[Thomas]

Actually, now you're just mad because I accused you of active lurking. For the record, it was made based on a "Recent Posters" list, not a number of posts someone put. And no, you don't agree with Fakinha. You disagree with my listing of active - semi-active - not active posters. That's not his case at all.

Basing that off of the most recent posters isn't fair. If all but one players post all in one hour then another player posted 7 hours before then that player would be "???" too right? Also I see that I posted quite recently before post #127 so does that mean I should be "Semi-Active" or "Active"? This doesn't make sense.

Not even Isa? Who by the way has voted the same as Neil, what a surprise.

Null read on Isa right now. I should probably go back though and iso him because I could have missed something.

[Thomas]

Where's the mod? People need their prods.

[Thomas]

I'm still playing.

So bv, what is it that you were talking about in post #140?

[Thomas]

HERE I AM TO SAVE THE DAY

brb while I read the thread

Welcome! Any catch up post?

[Thomas]

No VC at the top of the page... maybe the mod disappeared again.

Anyway I iso'ed neil and I'm fine with a vote on him. Being suspicious of bv then quickhammering pinkfloyd (he was really annoying though) right after asking people those questions was weird. He did write that post because he wanted people to respond to those questions, right? I would expect a pro-town player to actually want people to answer those questions because it's best to get that information before the mafia can speak again at night. He clearly didn't care if people responded or not.

Vote: neil1113

[Thomas]

Oh and neil1113 is at L-1 by the way.

[Thomas]

No... Delta replaced Shinki so before I voted, Neil had 2 votes.

[Thomas]

My apologies for not posting yesterday or the day before, another game I was in on this site was in 3 player lylo with the deadline really close so I had to spend all my time with that game. That game is now over though.

I'm town, and you guys hammered me. Eh I kinda gave up on this game to be honest, so I'm not too mad. Good job.

I'm not sure if you were pretending you were hammered here so people would believe your claim. Only 2 posts above I said you weren't hammered and when I voted, I said that you were at L-1. Nice try.

You're right, that's not a hammer! Unvote Thomas. Seriously. You know as well as anyone in this game I'm not scum, and Fakinha is. Look at my case and tell me I'm wrong. Better yet, look at his play and tell me I'm wrong.

Why did you say "You know as well as anyone in this game I'm not scum, and Fakinha is"? NOTHING proves to me that you AREN'T scum.

Yeah, go die scum. You two both will be lynched. See ya. Come on Thomas, use your head and don't let anyone else influence you. Make your own decision, and if you still think I'm scum, vote for me. If not, let's lynch Fakinha now.

It looks like all your suspects are based on OMGUS so I won't trust this. If you want me to listen to your cases then don't build them out of OMGUS.

Thomas, is neil's quickhammer on pinkfloyd after his questions really the only thing you could think of?

No, there's still more to it. On D1, from what I remember, neil was suspicious of bv but that seems to have vanished completely. Then there's #111. And I think I already mentioned the hammer. I don't like post #192 where he said "You know as well as anyone in this game I'm not scum, and Fakinha is." Could that be a buddying attempt?

Thomas, Bv, Collyer...I wanna hear your thoughts. Especially Bv who just seems to lurk and lurk...he has posted in other threads during the period that got him prodded.

Null read right now on Delta. I don't see anything his predecessor did that was scummy so perhaps this play style (which is slightly scummy) is just how he plays but I'm not really sure so I'll keep this as a null read for now. Neil is still more scummy.

[Thomas]

Thomas, we're almost ten pages into the game and you've only managed to develop one stable read - well, to be honest all your other reads are stable, they've been "null". Get it together...are you honestly that clueless?

10 pages and low activity. Do you have a read on every player in the game or something? Do you want me to give you more reads? I don't think I have mentioned my read on bv which is null-slight scum (neil is more scummy, though). I can't imagine why neil and bv would get into such a heated discussion early in day 1 if they were both scum partners, though. Bv is flying under the radar and has gotten away for most of the day without many posts.

I'll reply to other inquiries later today.

[Thomas]

Thomas, I asked you whether or not you had any more arguments for your pretty confident vote on Neil and you gave some okay reasons from day one. However, from a very quick read of your posts, I don't get the impression that you made much of a fuss about it yesterday. Also, why do you have a null read on Isa when he's been buddying Neil an embarrassing amount? I don't understand about how Neil could be buddying Fakhina or you, could you explain?

Yeah I don't remember attacking neil at all on D1. I remember that I said neil made some better points than bv in the neil vs. bv argument though. Either I didn't notice some of his mistakes or they were really small but it was after his hammer on pinkfloyd when I iso'ed him and started to get the scum read on him. I remember in post #160 you mentioned Isa to me and I said I would go back and see if I thought he was buddying but I forgot about that. I'll quickly do that now... Okay so Isa said he agreed with neil's post #58 (which was a good post) and then for the rest of D1 Isa had a town read on neil but post #142 by Isa is when it really did start to sound like buddying when Isa said there was no way he would lynched neil. In post #165 Isa said he was not buddying neil and reading down later on in the iso, it doesn't look like much has changed. This is buddying and he's either scum or somehow really convinced that neil is town. Isa, has your read on neil changed at all after his hammer on pinkfloyd yesterday?

[Thomas]

Judging by day 1 only, if you skip the hammer, was there really anyone willing to lynch Neil? By the end of the day, only Collyer (and Shinki, partly) seemed to be willing to vote Neil.

Well if pinkfloyd wasn't trolling and hogging the spotlight then I'm sure more people would have attacked neil.

Anyway...time is running out. I will support the lynch on DeltaWave or Fakinha today - either works, but I'm more willing to lynch DeltaWave if I may choose between the two. If anyone wants to push any other last-minute wagons, please do so NOW. We only have four days and the pace of this game isn't fast enough for us to drag it down even further.

The deadline is less than what you said. We have less than 3 days now. I'm not sure if I follow on why people are suspicious of Delta. Is it neil's OMGUS? I must have read the last page too quickly so I should read it over again.

[Thomas]

Wow neil's flip makes Isa look bad and I really thought neil was scum with the way he was acting. I will probably iso Isa at a later date but from what I remember, one post by neil gave Isa a town read on neil the rest of the time neil was alive. On day 2 though I believe Isa said his town read wasn't as strong. So I will try to decide if that was buddying or not now that I have seen neil's flip. Fakinha is scummy, Delta null and where's bv????? http://mafiascum.net/forum/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts Apparently talking about halloween costumes is more important than this game. How can anyone get a read on him if he's not gonna post today and only posted what? Three? Four? times on D2.

[Thomas]

Mod: Prod bv310 please.

[Thomas]

Why isn't bv

prodded

replaced yet?

Thomas, why is Delta null?

If you're asking me why I don't have him as town or scum then he's more pro-town than all other players including you and but it's lylo so I can't clear him as town too easily so I have put him as null.

Also, I ask you again to say why I look scummy because Neil flipped town - you imply that I wouldn't if he'd flip scum.

You would look bad no matter what neil flips I suppose which is why having a strong town read on neil is bad no matter what your alignment is. What makes you look scummy from neil's flip is that you have a town read on him after many suspicious things he did so it looked like buddying and scum can use it for town credits.

[Thomas]

Welcome HermanoBro!

Neil had great defenses to your attacks that you, DW and Thomas mainly ignored.

AtE was good defense? His defense was fine on D1 in the bv argument but then it became AtE and then he would attack anybody who attacked him. His 'defense' was not good enough for me to retract my vote from him and I wouldn't trust his reads at all had I had a town read on him because it looked like they were 100% based on OMGUS.

[Thomas]

It's not because he was confirmed town that his posts are the truth.

If his posts are the truth then doesn't that make you scum because he suspected you?

HermanoBro: Not much of a catch up post. Can you post your reads on some other players? Your predecessor hasn't posted any reads for a long time.

[Thomas]

GG.

Vote: Fakinha

[Thomas]

So Fakinha and partly Collyer (who was impossible to get to know where he was heading in his reads) were all right on me when they accused me for buddying up to a town-player. Having Neil lynched was the best thing that could happen during day 2, and I'm glad that me and Thomas taking opposite stances on everything made sure that we never got suspected as a team - IF I'd be lynched, I think Thomas would be in trouble, but with clever night kills it could work out.

If you were lynched then I would have killed DeltaWave because I'm sure he's the watcher. I thought #281 was a softclaim and I am not watch immune so I could have been in a lot of trouble if I could not eliminate the watcher.

Collyer was killed because THAT GUY WAS THE BEST TOWN SLOT YOU COULD ASK FOR. I was always on my toes when replying to him, trying not to slip up because he'd jump at me for everything I'd say and refuse to let go, not because he was stubborn but because it was legitimate. The only reason he wasn't killed night 1 was that I was 100% sure he'd be watched and I could have been tracked, so it was much easier to just settle for Cav, who didn't have any suspicions at all towards anyone, meaning that 1) he wouldn't be protected and 2) he could potentially start something against me day 2.

Both Cav and Collyer were obvtown but I decided on Cav for N1 because I thought Collyer was more likely to help lynch neil than Cav was. That plan worked.

Had I been town, I'd call Thomas out for his lurking - I didn't dare to do that now, because it simply wasn't needed. Nobody paid him any attention whatsoever, which allowed him to skate by easily. I think we complimented each other nicely.

I'm not sure if this was because bv lurked way more than me or because I made some pro-town posts. I was only suspected once in the game I think and that was by neil on D1 for a pretty bad reason.

For the record - I am certain that IF I had been town, I'd find Neil pro-town as well, and for the exact reasons I gave. I was probably more stubborn than I'd be if I was town, but I'd have a town read on him.

Yeah I would have a town read on neil as well. I only suspected him because I'm scum.

I had myself locked into a town read, but the reason it worked at all today was that it became a two-sided coin - there's no real town motivation behind it, but stating it openly has no scum motivation behind it. Buddying is done for getting town-cred, but I never got ANY for it, which I used to my advantage - I defended my (correct) read and didn't give in, which was advantageous when the flip came. Suddenly I got the needed town-cred from DeltaWave, which was all that I needed.

You actually did get town-cred from buddying neil but luckily nobody noticed that. Neil didn't suspect you at all because you agreed with him on everything.

Well this was my first time as scum and Isa's first time as scum on the internet and I was REALLY surprised that I was scum with him because I know him from another site and when I was talking to him about us playing a game together I was joking about wanting to be mafia with him, lol.

[Thomas]

The mod needs to hurry up and make this official and end the day because I would like to hear the thoughts from dead players.

By the way, I did, at one point think about making the 2nd vote on Fakinha and then when there was no quickhammer Delta would probably hammer Fakinha but I was not confident that that plan would work. Does anybody think that would have worked?

[Thomas]

oh yeah, I was watcher, forgot to mention.

mod told me:
Night 1 he watched Neil, and saw Collyer target Neil.
Night 2 he watched Collyer and received No Result.

Wow good thing Isa did the kill on Collyer on N2 or else I would have been caught by you/bv. At first I was going to kill Collyer but then we both agreed that Isa should because he was more scummy so it wouldn't be as much of a loss if he was caught.

Now, as a first time mod, I'd like to ask you, aside from my activity (I'm fully aware of my need for improvement there), any comments on my modding? Anything I did well? Anything I need to improve on? Any commentary would be appreciated.

It looks like you gave up on vote counts for a while but I'm assuming that's because of your absence. If you are going to flake then get a backup mod. Apart from flaking, everything else was fine.