Open 337: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Cav]

Hi, looking forward to playing with you all.

Just read over the game; a lot of the debate seems to be coming out of problems with people's attitudes or semantics, as others have said. The Bv/Neil debate seems earnest if misguided; Bv's vote for Pink seemed overly serious, but Neils defence seems far too over protective. And no one seems to like each other, which is sad...

Isa’s play is interesting. It seemed to go pretty unnoticed that he was pushing for Pink’s lynch as much as Bv, despite his assurances that it was all in the spirit of RVS. His engagement with the Bv/Neil debate is quite measured; he never actually engages in the argument fully but he asserts Neils town-ness three times,

in no way do I consider what Neil said to be "textbook scum play”

Neil brings up some very solid points versus Bv and I don't see anything inherently scummy coming from him

Neil sure brings up better points than bv though.

Considering no other player has so clearly chosen a side, as it were, this stuck out to me.

Oh, and someone used the word shenaniganistic, which is now my word of the day

Also, UNVOTE: bv310

[Cav]

To me the discussion reads as a couple of minor points blown completely out of proportion. For example, you both need to stop debating whether Neil was implying that you implied that he inferred that you were attempting to enforce a case to entrap Pink or wherever that particular circularity has got to, it reads as a point of semantics. I'd say that neither of you are right, but that the nature of the discussion is not of wrong and right; neither of you are going to back down on the points you hold because you're both viewing them from your perspective. Neither of you look overly scummy from my perspective, although the fact that Neil seems to want to continue the debate exclusively is slightly worrying. I'm not sure whether its stubborn town or clever scum; you've become the focal point of this day so far and each player is going to be judged in the light of this debate. Coming in fresh it's very hard to get a read on anyone apart from you two and your interactions. Hence my concerns about Isa are based entirely on his reactions to your debate.

I'm interested to see if anyone who's seen the debate unfold in real time has a different view on events.

[Cav]

Cav, why does it bother you that I have taken a stance in the debate between Bv and Neil?

Because you alone are so wholly in support of one side of the argument, while never actually saying which points of Neils you agree with, or why Bv fails to convince you. Then, when Collyer raises some points about Neils argument, you dismiss it all as nitpicking. Apart from your post 50 when you say you didn't like Neils attack on Bv, you've been entirely convinced by Neils arguments. My problem with this is that you, like Neil, seem interested in keeping the debate focused on Bv and Neil alone, which ultimately leaves little room for any reads of any other players, and looks like you're setting up Bv to be lynched by isolating him from the player base.
Why does Neil convince you so much more than Bv?

[Cav]

Why does Neil convince you so much more than Bv?

Because #58 is a fantastic post that I agree with almost to the last letter.
The "textbook scum play" post by Bv helped early on to put him in a negative light, and after said #58, I think it's clear that Neil comes from a town POV. Reading Bv's reply in #87 shows that his case on Neil is 2/4 "I interpret your post in a different way than you did, but what you say about it is reasonable". The only thing bothering me at all is Neil's will to keep the spotlight on those two, but I don't know if he meant that the rest of us should avoid to discuss their debate or not.

Anyway, pinkfloyd, you're just zooming around and post random nonsense, which you've done for almost the entire game. VOTE: pinkfloyd Where's your thoughts? Stop the active lurking.

Thanks for explaining; I don't feel as strongly about post #58 as you, but I see where you're coming from now. I think post #111 explains Neils spotlighting to a degree, though I disagree completely with his choice of tactics. Still not totally sure about him or Bv.

Both putting pressure on each other and they have both responded well.... wouldn't be surprised if they were both town.

Pink, this is all you've said about Neil (and Coll). You've said almost nothing about him for pages. Why are you surprised when people ask you for analysis. As a comeback to an accusation of lurking, your last post's a bit weak.