Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Thor665]

@Reck - I do bring joy to so many people's lives

@Yates - What's the case on me? I'll consider catching up this weekend, but may decide not to just for yucks.

@Pine - your advertising cheque is in the mail...also I'm town. Who's scum?

[Thor665]

The fact that admin is going to be finding a 2nd replacement for the same role and both previous roles came up shady has me inclined to Vote: Weirdalex.

Let's see - according to page 42 the counterwagon is excited about voting me. Psssh.
Also Yates' 'case' is that I'm "shady" also he mentions the replacements but then clarifies that has nothing to do with anything, and it's just taht I'm "shady"

Yo, Yates, does "sahdy = lurking useless sack of protoplasm?
Because slots that are often replaced always have that, yeah? So it's kinda null, yeah?
Also - I have *never* been replaced in any game and am almost never even prodded (usually just caught in mass prods). So, therefore, by definition, since it's me, I auto defeat your current case on me. You should vote your second top suspect so I can sheep you and we can catch scum.

@Pine - I see Uphill is the alternate wagon. Is he there for anything juicy, or is it another lurksack case?

[Thor665]

kondi was a top scumspect for me, then he replaced out. Then alex became a top suspect, and he replaced out.

Yeah, but *why*?
Also, you mentioned replaced out twice - you and I both know the substantive quality of THAT as a scumtell. That's a real life tell - why are you even bringing that up? You case should have been "had a scum feel on your predecessors" fuggin period. But "Ooooh, ::effeminate hand wave:: scummy feel *AND* they replaced out...because...town don't do that...fact!"

Seriously now. This is a lurk/flake out case isn't it?
On Day 3.
As a counter wagon...

Whassup Reck?

The Uphill wagon preceded the wagon on you/Alex, actually. You are the counterwagon.

Whassup Reck?

I'll give you 3 good reasons:

Huzzah!

1. Random lynch vote.
Why this is scummy: SleepyKrew flipped Town. There was a wagon on SKrew later, but that wagon didn't start until odd behavior until later on in day 2. A good wagon on Triangle-Scum had been started and he distanced himself.

So, voting someone...who has no wagon on them...and not providing reasons...and avoiding active big wagons and sheeping others...is scummy?
Whut?

::Actually looks at post::

And it was in the RVS stage so...wtflolomgbbq? Are you actually presenting this as part of a case? Get thee to a Newbie good sir
Has Reck yelled at you much this game? (<--serious question)

2. Opportunity to hammer scum but "I'll hammer Triangle after school today."
Why this is scummy: Triangle flipped scum. If he knew he was going to vote for Triangle anyway, why didn't he just do it? The fact that Triangle later flipped scum casts suspicion on this action because it now looks like a rookie scum play of "oh I meant to vote for that person but ran out of time" when you actually know that your scum partner is about to be lynched.

Oddly enough, that looks like a TOWNtell to me. When you're going to hammer your buddy you bloody well want to look like town if you're doing it. So you make a case and try to make it seem like you're part of the wagon - you don't do 'lol, deadline enforced hammer' on a scumbuddy you're going to bus. Weak associative for the rest 'he was going to let deadline hit...' seriously? That's you taking his action, assigning a scum intent, and then justifying it. You didn't look at the action and discern a scum intent inherently. Bogus tell.

Though Pine is fairly likely town, that's a good win to know.

3. Jumped on the wrong wagon.
Why this is scummy: everyone can make a mistake HOWEVER, when there is a 50/50 wagon going and 1 flips scum? That looks bad for anyone on the counter wagon as, presumably, scum wouldn't want to lynch their own scum buddy.

That doesn't explain why out of all those names you picked this one - this one was even clearly willing to switch to the other wagon showing a general indifference of opinion between the two, again, a town tell. Why have you ruled out the rest of the counter wagon? Are they all obv. town and I've missed it?

To be fair, now that I've written this out, I'm a

little

less sold on konid/weirdalex/Thor scum but points 2 + 3 are REALLY damning.

@Pine - who are you voting right now? I'm interested in sheeping you.
Also, what's your read on Yates, is he just over anxious newb town, or is this a sloppy scum push?

[Thor665]

@Yates - we know you're new, it's time to let the other players look and see if they're sold by your case on me via noting town tells or not
Or they can show their own awesome cases which will cause me to flail moore, so win/win, yeah? I especially look forward to Reck's.
You also dodged my serious question - seriously, has Reck yelled at you any this game?

Vote: Uphill

Sheeping for fun and profit. Okay, so Pine and FoN are obv. town, I'm obv. town now and just proved it. Reck should get in here and responded to my points. We also have Grimm and Soda competing for 'most useless player of the Day' award - and that's not a good one to win. What's going on there guys?

[Thor665]

@Pine
@Reck

Has Grimm come out with any real opinions on Soda thus far this game? Because if not I'm going to say fairly obv. town for him, yeah?

So that's three obv. town players now, four counting me.

Reck, since you didn't re-state could you link me to your awesome case of awesome on this slot? Because either you're derping it up or are scum and I'd love to figure out which.

[Thor665]

@Reck - also, while you're digging up that case, two questions;

1. Your read on Yates - go!

2. Your opinion of Yate's case on me.

[Thor665]

@Uphill - yeah, that's *so* scummy of me, how foolish...::crickets::...


@Reck - I feel a lot of crazy newb energy here - how come your head is still attached?
Also - your case on me is weaksauce and you know it, you should vote Uphill because he doesn't know what a scumtell is.

[Thor665]

If you can explain how sheeping Pine/Force makes you obv town I'll move my vote to myself right now, how's that for crickets?

This is you deciding that I meant sheeping Pine made me obv. town - as opposed to noticing earlier in the post where I dissected a case on me and showed how that made me obv. town and then referenced it again. Reading is also a pro town action I have been told, and at least reading comprehension is a bonus if you want to avoid the bulk of the reading.

Even if I somehow played mafia without knowing what a scumtell is, (which is like playing baseball without knowing what a base is,) how would that make me anything other than an idiot playing in the wrong queue, if not the wrong game? It wouldn't. You're just latching on to the only plausible alternative to your own lynch here.

Lack of a sense of humor - another glaring scumtell.
If you want to vote Reck I'd be willing to sheep you on that one - I'm a pretty equal opportunity sheeper. Heck, then I wouldn't even be voting my counter wagon - which is definitely scummy, after all you're not...voting...your own counter wagon...and calling...me...scummy for doing...

What's your scum case on me?

[Thor665]

@Uphill - I looked up your case on weird-previous-me. Woosh, it's silly. I wasn't pressuring Pine enough? The silly slot barely posted, and easily half of the content posts are vague digs at Pine in some manner or other - 75% of the posts are 'lol, reading up' so...yeah...I was pressuring Pine as functionally as I was pressuring anyone - dramatically more so actually. The crime is, I should have been pressuring my top scum read *more* when there is LITERALLY NO OTHER SLOT THAT I PRESSURED MORE?

That case has holes the size of Reck's ego in them...not *quite* my ego sized holes, but I might be able to wedge in there if I worked at it.
Oh, yeah, the other half of your case is calling me scummy for doing something you just did...yeah...

Moar Uphill votes pl0x!

[Thor665]

@Furc - Miller flavor?

[Thor665]

First of all, that's not even on the same

page

as when you said you'd "just proved" yourself obvtown, much less the same post. I'm kickin' yo SMURFSSSSSSSSSS in reading comprehension!

And yet you didn't notice the two posts came within a half an hour of each other - almost as though I was having an active conversation and probably had stuff very fresh in my mind.
Timestamps - they matter.

If it was that obvious you were town, you wouldn't be a primary lynch candidate! The fact that you specifically chose the words "proved" and "obv. town" to describe yourself

when you're at L-2

comes off like you're trying to jedi mind trick everyone into looking somewhere else.

Well, actually I specifically pointed out two different town tells in a case supposedly about showing me as scum - the third tell I noted was him calling me scum for making an RVS vote...seriously now, the case doesn't exist and I showed two town tells - that makes it a town case. The fact that no one else said anything means two additional things;

1. There probably isn't any more of a case on me - thus I only have town tells on me.
2. Reck is probably scum, because he shouldn't have allowed that level of derpy to exists as a case he supported.

You're voting me, but you'd be willing to sheep me?

Yes.

I have voted your slot every day, and I presented a case against alex first thing D2 when nobody else was looking at him hard.

Link to your case?
Also - is it still your case?

You can try to make this about the quantity of alex's pressure on Pine

relative to his pressure on anyone else

all you want, but the fact of the matter is that his ONLY attack on Pine, AT ALL, EVER, is this:

That is still the point though. You don't look at how well I play golf, and say "Look, Tiger Woods plays golf better than Thor, Thor must be trying to lose the game in order to...I dunno, make money by betting against himself."

You're applying a false criteria. If you agree that he pressured nobody more than his top suspect, and that his top suspect was almost all of his pressure, attacks, and attention (And he was, it's obvious) then it doesn't matter if you think it was weak pressure - because it was probably top level pressure for the skills of the player.

Unless you're saying alex was a really good player and was playing a weaker game in order to advance his scum agenda - that would be scummy, but I'd be curious to see your evidence of alex being a good player.

Does this make sense to you? Take a deep breath, please, and read it twice. It's a very compelling and clear defeat of your position.

Moar Uphill votes pl0x!

Seriously, people. Look at that quote. Then look at this one:

If you want to vote Reck I'd be willing to sheep you on that one

Then vote Thor. Then vote Thor some more.

Oh, dear sir, someday you'll learn about meta, and we won't have these confusions. I look forward to our second game together.
In any case...

So I take it you don't find Reck scummy at all? Because you're not willing to get off an obviously now locked wagon to try something new?
Or do you not see already how the wagon on me is going to go no further today?
While we're asking questions - I'd also like to have your read on Uphill.

I'm not sold on Uphill-Town but he is on the money with this post, Thor. ^^

You are in absolutely NO way obv-Town and haven't even presented a compelling argument for being null-Town.

Oh man, so I point by point abuse your case on me, and ask questions of it, and your reply is "what that guy said".
Classic.


@Pine
@FoN

What's the case on Uphill? He looks weaksauce, I'll agree, but (depending on his earlier case on Alex) I'm thinking I'm starting to lean town on him. Frankly Yates looks much worse as far as derp scumhunting goes. Reck also looks like he needs rope more. I'm of a mind to lynch Reck, or maybe Yates over Uphill - so am I missing something here or what? The sheep needs food!

[Thor665]

@Yates - the case on you is that I dislike your face and have a beard.

@Reck - you supported the derp case on me. I've said as much, quite clearly. You can claim scum now, it will save some time.

@Soda Spirit - deal.

Unvote: Uphill
Vote: Yates

Choo-choo!

[Thor665]

Oh, and everyone, I want your opinions about this;

Well, actually I specifically pointed out two different town tells in a case supposedly about showing me as scum - the third tell I noted was him calling me scum for making an RVS vote...seriously now, the case doesn't exist and I showed two town tells - that makes it a town case. The fact that no one else said anything means two additional things;

1. There probably isn't any more of a case on me - thus I only have town tells on me.
2. Reck is probably scum, because he shouldn't have allowed that level of derpy to exists as a case he supported.

And now ask yourselves how confused Reck should have been about what I meant.

Reck, I forgot, do you skim and not really read stuff as town or as scum?

[Thor665]

@Pine - 1084 is, though nattery, also self contained as long as you note 1081 where Reck acts like the listed point 2 has come out of nowhere and he has no idea what case I'm referring to. It's clear evidence he isn't reading jack or spit, yet is noting when his name comes up. Also known as a scumtell.

I'll go check out pg 39-40 and be back with thoughts.

[Thor665]

I even quoted it for you, you useless man.

Unvote: Yates
Vote: Reck

@Pine - yeah, that was pretty convincing. It hurts my soul for both of them to be town though, and Uphill was actually seriously willing to dig into that with me...of course they're so newbie maybe they, even as scum, just actually think I'm lynchbait because they don't know any better. I think I'm back to being content with Uphill or Reck getting rope, and I've currently got a patch of beard that's saying Uphill might be town. Not feeling that with Reck.

@Yates - I'm actually not as quickly dismissive as some of the others, but I do have a bit of a puzzler for you to consider. I've noted multiple occurences (even in the few pages I've read) of the more experienced players telling you that you're scummy and your cases are somewhere between a derp and a not-so-bright rock. Now, do you think we're all doing that because we're smelly and mean (well, *I* am, but...) or do you think that your cases perhaps need work in spotting what is or is not actually a scumtell? As a game based around analysis this is a pretty important thing for you to ask yourself and come up with an answer for. Allow me to give you a very quick breakdown;

1. I *am* actually pretty obvious town, both through predecessor's actions and my own. I'm hardly obv. town, but I am very town.
2. There has honestly been nothing you've called me on thus far that is a scumtell - that's why I'm being so dismissive of your cases, they really are of questionable merit and not of the worth you seem to hold them in.
3. If you are town, you're allowing this odd side crusade to distract from legitimate scumhunting efforts that are going on.

I'd like you to try this - just sort of ignore screaming about how obv. scum I am because of whatever reason you think you see. Do this ignoring for about your next five posts of the day.
During those next five posts I'd like to see you do the following;

Offer about a 1-2 sentence read on Reck and Uphill.
Tell me your read on Furc.
Respond to some questions that I will have about those reads, and do so without thinking I'm scheming scum.

After that is all done, if you still have issues with me say so, and I'll point out the partial case I've already advanced on you that I'm mildly miffed you missed (but I'm choosing to take you into town discussion on Pine's say-so, so say 'thank you, Pine') and I'll also discuss your case on me some more if you wish, even though you never tried to address my rebuttal of your case other than going 'nyaa-nyaa, you're still scum!' which seems kinda unhelpful on multiple levels.

Also, voting for Reck would be awesome.

[Thor665]

Oh Pine, thanks for making this obnoxious to respond to...

WHICH CASE?

Yates' case on me.

WHO?

Yates.

THE SECOND HALF OF THIS SENTENCE MAKES NO SENSE OUT OF CONTEXT

That's...the definition of something being out of context, it doesn't make sense.
His case had three points on me.
1. was that my slot had not explained the reasons of its RVS vote...oooh, scumtell.
The other was that the slot had expressed intent to hammer a "scumbuddy" due to deadline (because that's how busses work?)
The third was...I don't even recall right now and am too lazy to look, but it was silly and also made this slot look like town, not scum, so derp.
Contextual enough for you?

UMM, WHAT? IF YOU'RE GOING TO JUST WHOLESALE DISMISS THE CASES AGAINST YOU, YOU CAN GO TO HELL. YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE.

If you have issues with that, why not have issues with when I did the point by point dismissal of the case?
Go read, you go read and you die...and read...and nether-realms...YES!

WHICH CASE?

...Yates' case. Sweet mary, it's the only case I ever talked about.

LINK PLEASE.

My iso isn't that long yet.

ALSO, RECK IS SUPPOSED TO POLICE THE REASONS OF PEOPLE ON THE SAME WAGON AS HIM?

Yes. You should always be paying attention to the reasons and methods of the people supporting the wagon you are.

No Thor, it isn't specific enough. And I'm too lazy to go back and reread the entire thread to try to follow your line of thinking. My comments in bold green.

My comments in sarcasm.
You're voting for Reck had the right to be confused then, thank you.

[Thor665]

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STILL IGNORING MY VERY EASY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Yates' case.

[Thor665]

I quoted where I was discussing his case, and specifically mentioned after seeing that case that it gave me two points.
One of those points was the one that confused you.
Which of the cases that I called town cases on me did you think I meant? Because I think there's only the one.

[Thor665]

That's cool, we're lynching you now anyways, maybe you'll manage to wrap your head around that concept.
have you done anything pro-town this game that should make me not want you speed lynched?

[Thor665]

Reck led the Triangle lynch? Hurm...

@Uphill - *raspberry*

[Thor665]

1. Force of Nature - likely town
3. Uphill - gut town, but PoE scum, leaning scum
4. Thor665 - bearded (actually, whiskered right now, but, hey)
5. SodaSpirit17 - no read whatsoever
6. Grimmjow - no read whatsoever
7. xRECKONERx - obv. town
8. Pine - strong town
10. Yates - obv. town
12. Furcolow - needs rope, but currently town for miller claim.

@Reck - I see you were defending Soda earlier when he was a counter wagon, is that still a town read? Any reasons besides counter to Triangle?

@Pine - what's the story with Grimm?

[Thor665]

"oh hey I'm just gonna throw Smurf at Reck to see if anything can stick"

Oh hey, I openly admitted I wasn't reading the game so maybe I'm rocking the boat to provide accelerated reads.

Yeah, Thor's awesome here.
Your case on me is still silly dude, look at it, look at your wagon support, the princess is in another castle.

[Thor665]

On Day 3? Eugh!
Okay, but what's the deal with Soda - as a counter to Triangle he should be looking town, shouldn't that make him townish and cast Grimm down with the Sodomites? Who was on that wagon push even? ::looks:: Day 1 he looks to be all about Triangle, so Grimm did his Soda push on one of the later days...meh.

@Reck - what was up with the Sleepy alternate wagon there?

SodaSpirit17, Yates, Grimmjow, Pine, xRECKONERx
Not counting dead town this is the Triangle wagon. Let's be honest, somebody bussed. Why are we not lynching Grimm or Soda?

[Thor665]

I don't see how I swapped to being obvtown all of a sudden. Mind expanding on that?

Um...your push on Triangle? Do you recall that - you're the one who said it was a strong pro town action.
I agree.

And... my experience with Soda is incredibly limited, but he's pretty derpymcderpyVI in every game I've seen him in... and the fact that he was a counterwagon to a scumlynch D1 makes me think he (along with Pine) are confirmedtown.

Pine moreso, but, yeah, I agree the Soda wagon is likely on town.

Sleepywagon looked juicy because Sleepy fought pretty damn hard to keep triangle from getting lynched... which is something Sleepyscum could get away with, and he knows that. Admittedly it was wrong but it felt good at the time right after a slamdunk D1.

You did Sleepywagon prior to Triangle flip though.
You got off Triangle to dork around with Sleepy - looking to get off your scumbuddy bus, y/n?

However... I think looking at those OFF the D1 triangle lynch is probably more fruitful. For awhile it was a close race between Triangle/whoever (I believe Pine was the end of day counterwagon) and scum probably could've/would've hedged their bets on the counterwagon.

Well, yeah, obviously there were scum on the counterwagon as well. Thats how those things work. That gives you;
Uphill, Furcolow, [Thor], Force of Nature.

Two of which are likely town, and one of which you're voting 'because' and another you're ignoring as it sits there with two of your town reads voting it...or do you think FoN is scum and I missed it?

Hint: I'm town too.

[Thor665]

Sorry Thor. I'm reasonably sure that scum lie within {Uphill, Soda, Thor} and we're getting close to deadline. Everything you've said so far is consistent and fits together right, and it almost feels...I don't know, calling it "too consistent" sounds cliche. The plus side of this is that if you flip Town, then the doubts about all the work you've done go away, and we can really home in on scum.

Oh dear gawd, I've committed the scumtell of "presenting reasoning" and "having a logical thought process that can be followed".
My payment is - 'after death we can trust your reads...but we shan't trust them just yet due to you needing death'.

What is this gak? (I'd be careful about calling Yates dumb with that as your vote reasoning, natch - at least Yates calls his tells scummy and probably believes it)

Unvote: Reck
Vote: Grimm

I'm also down with an Uphill lynch.
I oppose the Thor derp wagon.

[Thor665]

Thor's random switch on me gives me WHEEEBUDDY vibes. The turnabout was so quick for someone who was SO SURE I was scum.

=======[]

::facepalm::

Reck - I read new evidence. The turnaround was quick because I was still playing catchup in a 40+ page game.
Normally at this point I think people usually wail and call everyone stupid and blame the other players for their coming lynch...luckily I've already done that

Okay, but seriously - the case on me is a joke, and there are literally two other players on Day 3 that none of you have clear reads on, and you're all basically admitting as such. Town needs to get its backside in gear, and it really doesn't behoove you to lynch me at this stage off the case of...whatever the fug you all think it is, I'm still not sure.

I won't claim, unless hammer threatened (by I, guess, one of the loser lurkers), but in case of a hammer sans claim request I will clarify - there has been no breadcrumbing from this slot, ever.

[Thor665]

1. This is me with a town role...though I'm generally informed that my meta is hard to pierce so you're probably not seeing much different from me other than trying to slog through this town's sludgy situation at a late date. Also, your back patting is embarrassing for you. Sit and be quiet with a small smile, if I flip scum you'll still look smart, but considering my role PM you'll just look less derpy than trying to act sure of yourself (and if you are sure - work on the quality of your reads).

2. Grimm and Soda (the fact you're cognizant of half of my list without any effort is proof of the validity of that call). The reads there are all muddled and minor and this is Day 3, somebody is dropping the ball really hard on the pair of them, especially considering that I'm a lurk case that no one is willing to admit is a lurk case.

[Thor665]

I also asked you to tell me the case - and you managed to post you saying you found my predecessor's scummy.

More derpiness

[Thor665]

@Reck - c'mon, one of the people voting me is doing it because my commentary makes "too much sense" and another is doing it because, 1/3 of his case against me is "didn't explain an RVS vote when it was made"
And I think both of them are town.
This case is fail - prove me wrong.

[Thor665]

What are these valid points?

[Thor665]

Actually, Reck, your little whine of "baaaaw, Thor is saying we can't use old cases" when I said nothing of the sort got my dander up. Here, you even did some of the work for me;

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3595034

You quoted them - and I checked your iso - these are literally the only points you raise.

So, kondi is scummy for a meta reason of playing badly, and he plays badly as scum (and certainly not as town...)
And then weirdalex didn't do much, but he didn't look town.

OH SNAP! Super awesome case! Dang man, I'm sorry, I didn't realize the case on me was that good.

No, you're lynching this slot because it has been fail lurk sack and not helping - that's very clear from those points, translated all they say is "unhelpful slot must die na0w!" which is all well and good except;
1. That's what I've been saying about the case.
and
2. I've, since replacing in, provided a wealth of active action from the slot, suggesting that wanting to kill it because it's been unhelpful is already dead reasoning.
and
3. You're ignoring two other fail non-active slots (that are still fail and non-active, if that's what excites you) and are also ignoring Uphill and Grimm who are actually capable of having legit scum cases made on them.

Instead you're going to whine at me in this sadsop way? Reck, get over your bad self, the wagon is fail, get off it and start doing something today other than being snippy with me - because that's all you've done since I showed up, and it's not helping gak all.

[Thor665]

Well, actually it has helped me look clever, because I'm charming and awesome when bantering with people.
But we're talking helpful in the 'advance town's wincon' way, natch.

[Thor665]

since the case WAS Smurfy.

I'm just happy I finally got someone else to admit it, it's been pretty obvious from this end.

Why is Grimm meta=town obv.? I'd love to knock him into a town read if the case has any spice to it.

Unvote: Grimm
Vote: Uphill

Let's see how long Pine froths about us wagoning up his prime wagon as opposed to his alternate acceptance due to making too much sense wagon.

[Thor665]

plus genuine case on Soda

The case on Soda was big, but it was mostly derp too. Feel free to expand on that - the towniest thing I can say about it was that it was a big push at a time where he didn't need to reinvent the wheel with both Uphill and me dorking around being options for lynch. That's not a bad town tell, but it's not home run.

[Thor665]

Happy to see Seacore.
Unhappy because he'll actually probably be serious enough to want to read everything before getting into the flow of things.
Let's try this again.

Vote: Reck

On reading over night I find the action of the scum wagon to be far more bus-like than I thought at a quick glance. Plus, he's the only real open slot I see for scum on the Uphill wagon and, derp, it was definitely there.

[Thor665]

And beard, mustn't forget that - it's my trademark.

[Thor665]

I'll endorse the idea of #2 if you help me wagon up Reck today. C'mon, you know you can't resist the beard's loamy goodness.

[Thor665]

It's the day before lylo - I'm neutral on massclaims at that stage, personally. The only claim that's really worthwhile to make is one that clears/condemns others - as the only reason to claim before lylo is so you can obligate scum not to be a 'lol, cop!' at lylo.

I think if we have a role that has multiple clears and/or a positive scum that they should have the brains gawd gave grasshoppers to figure out if they should/shouldn't claim.

Other than that I see little real value to the claim, am I missing something? Other than your vote, natch.

[Thor665]

This is a good lynch and Town needs to get on board already.

That is a derp lynch that even Reckscum was able to look at and go 'derp, yeah, can't really push through that sucker now that someone with a brain is at the driver's seat' so...no. You should vote Reck, trust me, I have a beard.

@FoN - your read on Reck (also, I'm as close to conf. town as we have, so you should sheep me)

[Thor665]

Grimm, who is a person I suspect would have some vague insights to Reck as a player feels there's a possibility of Reck bus.
Presses point.
Reck flips the hyper hell out.

Moar votes pl0x.

[Thor665]

Yeah, and we're not lynching Furc today while you also sit around and say you don't want a cop claim while admitting Furc needs death unless there's a cop claim.
Catch-22 on Furc, eh?
Scummy, scummy, doo-dah.

[Thor665]

Especially considering town thus far is limited Neighbrizer, Doc, and theory Cop
vs. Scum GF, limited Role Cop.

Weak teams on both fronts, but strongly favoring scum.

[Thor665]

It's Reck, look at what Furc's been up to. He's derping along in his usual way and was at least mildly pro-town with the claim.
Reck meanwhile did his little bussing action, sure, but today he's all over Furc and going for a Catch-22 paranoia case on him, and it took someone as sexy and amazing as me to get him to admit that the super obvious Thorscum case never existed. He's coasting on that bus and is pretty clearly advancing a scum agenda. You should vote him because it will make me happy.

[Thor665]

It would be crazy scum sided, I agree. But if Yates is actively scum hunting then why would he think there is?

I think there's more reasons for him being scum and saying what he said then there is for him being town and saying it.

You have read some of his other cases though, yeah?
He legitimately called my slot scummy for making an RVS vote without reasons.
Just think on that one for a little bit.

Keep on pressing him and work out your own situation, but you will need a pretty home run case to make me not want Reck dead today.

[Thor665]

@Reck - you're at L-2, the sky isn't falling yet.

@Seacore - is a cop claim at a stage the cop apparently doesn't desire to claim really worth a Furc push on the day prior to lylo? I'm not sure I really see the win logic there. Other than being derp it's hard to put a case to Furc and he's always derp. Even if he is scum he's just going to be one of two, why not hunt for his partner as opposed to trying to force a cop claim? Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

Heck, day prior to MYLO even. That play is as derptastic as anything Furc has done.

[Thor665]

@Seacore - because he claimed Miller. That's an intrinsic increase of his likely townishness. It's not a home run, but the only value in lynching him sans a cop claim is really to force a cop claim - here's my thoughts on that. If there *is* a cop, clearly we probably shouldn't lynch him. If there is a cop and he hasn't claimed, then probably he has reasons thereof. If there is no cop - we can sort out the Furc question in lylo when there's an obligatory claim in any case regardless of if the cop really thinks there's value in the info he has because it has to come out at that stage regardless.

Instead you're like "hurr, I know better than theory power role that he should claim today"

Uh...no, you don't. If the theory cop has three clears then, derp, yeah, he should claim. Two clears and a guilty? Claim ya fool. Lack of claim - so let's push lynch on Furc to force claim...the hell? That makes no sense - the *only* way that makes sense is if you are 100% certain there's no cop (in which case we still don't need to sweat Furc today) *or* you're convinced the player with the cop role is the biggest dork-head in the game of mafia today. So which are you advocating here?

My Reck case is more that he's coasting, just like Furc, but let's be honest - I would expect more from Reck than Furc, so why the coast? And why the weak bus? And why the lolomgbbq on Grimm when Grimm looked at him funny? I don't like it, let's put him to L-1 and see what transpires and sort out Furc later. Reck has been happy coasting and nuthugging weak cases and anytime anyone looks at him he's like "Hey, I weak bussed, yo! Watch as I post in a fury and flurry at you and then return to sadlurk!" C'mon, this isn't rocket science here.

[Thor665]

I don't find a miller claim to be town tell. Like, at all, because the moment it becomes one it stops being one. But I'll run with you on the rest.

I'll happily entertain offerings of scum fakeclaiming as millers. I know I've contemplated doing it because I think it *is* a pretty safe scumtell, but I've never seenit done which is why I'm entertaining it. Considering I'm a psychotic happy/laughy super scum extraordinaire (+1) I tend to believe Furc didn't figure out my awesome scum gambit and use it for himself. Ballsy when there is a possibility of Vigs anyway, yeah?

But fine, Furc dead can wait until tomorrow, however, if the cop dies before telling us the info, Imma cut you.

If cop dies without breadcrumbs than cop is jerk and we can blame our loss on them anyway. I love outsourcing blame.

On the Reck front, is Reck that good a player? As I said before I've only ever seen him in one game, in that game he got 'Fated' but all he did in reaction to that was this flurry of posts and sadlurking.

He usually, to my mind, is more snarky than this. I would have expected him to at least...y'know...realize a case he was pushing didn't exist and was weak before I had to call him out on it three to four times before he did so...and only did so after I'd started calling him townish anyway...yeah.
Also, re-read the Grimm response, comes across as really over the top to a not unreasonable attack from Grimm, and yet he stays quiet on me fo the most part. I think he believes he can emotionally beat up Grimm better than me and so went for that throat, but avoided me as not wanting to get into a scum debate. Just reads all off.

What can't we do at L-2 that we suddenly can do at L-1?

Force a claim and lynch him are the two things that immediately pop to mind.
Why, who should we force a claim from and lynch instead of him? Because I don't see a better option.

[Thor665]

Dude, that's balls. Take all the time you need.

[Thor665]

For the record I still want to lynch the slot though - you should vote him Yates.

[Thor665]

I'm skipping the family related social stuff becaause it's just uncomfortable and despite all apperances I'm actually a mushy and soft guy at heart - so I don't care to go there in a discussion as relates to this game. If it's affecting your playstyle please just replace out, and I don't hold it against you. If it's not affecting your playstyle stay in the game and don't use it as any angle of defense.

My, trying to be respectful but knowing this comes off a bit crass and being unsure how to change that and still convey point, thoughts.

And why the weak bus?

I don't know what you mean.

Well, probably how you kept wanting to hop off that bus, and even defended it, and then hopped back on at the 11th hour to try to keep some of that precious, precious town energy for yourself.

I don't think I've used "hey I voted scum" as a defense unless somebody has brought it up as an attack first this entire game.

Naaah.
Here;
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3598846
I'm town - I lynched scum off a weak bus I pretty clearly wanted off of!

You don't have to put me at L-1 for a claim, I'll happily claim right now and get it over with and the rest of this stupid town can decide how hard they want to derp

Well, obviously I'm happy with this - fakeclaim away.
Grimm's onto you, I'm onto you, and no one else is trying to start up a counter worth spit, so you are going to be at L-1 eventually in the near future, so let's skip the middle part where I keep having to browbeat people into it.

[Thor665]

Crumbs?

And weren't you all over Sleepy Day 2 for the lynch?

[Thor665]

I don't buy it either, personally. It's sloppy play on multiple levels - and you know I've bagged you as scum before when you had a sloppy play fakeclaim.

Could you maybe explain those unvotes and Triangle defenses near the end, when it looks pretty bleeding obvious that you actually don't want to lynch him?

[Thor665]

What do you mean by tracker v. cop?

He's probably not a tracker at all, and if he is he's a scum tracker. Here's the translation of his claim;

"I had an ability that vaguely seems to fit in this setup, but I used the ability poorly, didn't seem to have any relation between my ability info and my pushes in thread, didn't breadcrumb my ability at all, have my ability provide no relevant info to town, oh, and my ability is gone now, so please don't kill me even though I have no worries about needing to fake the ability going forward."

Town is not helped by early tracker shots when tracker is limited.
Scum tracker is helped.
Town is certainly not helped by limited tracker who doesn't breadcrumb who fires early.

[Thor665]

I'll support massclaim if either of you could explain to me how Reck's claim looks legit in any way to the point it's not basically a scum confirmation.
He was a limited tracker, who fired early, who didn't breadcrumb.
::headdesk::

[Thor665]

Furc isn't a decent suspect unless I missed something.
Reck is scummy regardless of his claim - could you tell me the scum case on Furc? I'll wait...

[Thor665]

Thor. Look at my claim. Think about what doesn't add up. It should be very Smurfng obvious. I will trust you're of sound mind and an read between the lines here.

I hate to admit this, but you apparently think I'm more clever than I am, because clearly I'm missing the point. I will remind you - I still haven't really read any of the thread, so if it's a lob back to anything in the first 40+ pages I'm probably likely to remain lost.
I guess I'll wait for your post tomorrow.

@Seacore- the heck? Sitting around going "hurdy-furdy!" isn't a good argument for massclaim. As I asked you earlier - do you have anything of a Furc case in existence? If Furc doesn't look scum besides his claim, then why do we need a massclaim to verify him?

[Thor665]

Bounces around from wagon to wagon, doesn't contribute and yet manages to avoid being on the scum wagon of D1 but be on the two town lynches D2 and D3?

That's all I see.

1. Bouncing from wagon to wagon isn't inherently scummy - so unless you expand on it this part is as solid as oatmeal.
2. I'll agree he doesn't contribute, though I'm not sure I find him contributing less than is normal for him. Do you?
3. I've been town and on two town wagons and, not just off, but opposed to a scum wagon.

Does he suck?
Yeah.
Is he failing the game and I wish he'd be replaced due to the constant lurkfail?
Yeah.
Does that mean he's scum? I got doubts.

@Furc - by the by, have you paraphrased your role PM yet? I asked you that a while ago, but you keep having like three day stretches between posts so I keep forgetting to press you on it. Please paraphrase your role PM. The whole thing.

[Thor665]

@Yates - please explain why Reck isn't scummy. Because...holy cats man, there's a reason this case is running so well right now. Go look at Grimm's case, Reck's reactions and claim, and my case on his claim being a scum claim.

[Thor665]

Well...I can see your perspective except for one thing;

You don't *know* I am scum.
You

think

I am scum.
Big difference.

Could you at least read Grimm's case on Reck, and my explanation of why the claim is fake and offer your objective thoughts on that?

[Thor665]

@Yates - if I flip town then it doesn't matter because town will lose, unless you think there are only two scum.

I get the feeling you really didn't go back and look at the cases - should I be getting that feeling? Could you maybe explain why Reck's claim is a town claim? I guess you're avoiding dealing with his obv. bus...by citing meta, but could you go and tell me whether you think he really wanted Triangle lynched or not? You can answer that without meta.

[Thor665]

^^^ actually, scratch that, 7 players alive, 6 dead.
In taht case, if you really want to go for it, you better start getting people to vote me.

[Thor665]

He changed his vote to at least two other competing wagons during the day - and even defended Triangle.

[Thor665]

Reck, you've gotta be crazy to think I'm not capable of backing up stuff I say. People always kinda go 'herp-derp' when Thor whips out some absolute opinion or strong meta claim...and then I *always* back it up if needed. I'm still amazed people expect me to lie or something for these - I'm not that sloppy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3550499
Here you are specifically wanting to lynch people other than Triangle.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p3548577
Here you are explaining how Triangle is likely town.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3551720
Again, same tell restated.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3553021
And again. Gosh, you look soooo "wary" of her VT claim, don't you?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3553081
And again - 'c'mon guys, my buddy just claimed VT, let's lynch one of these other players'

That is clear defense and an attempt at wagon redirection.
But it's a misrep to say you defended her?
Yeah...

[Thor665]

@Reck - weren't you pressing for claims though? FoN is doing the same.

Also - I'm not sure if I'm crazy or you are, but that most assuredly looks like trying to get another wagon going and defending the Triangle wagon trying to slow and/or stop it. People can make their own decisions, but your explanations leave me very cold.

[Thor665]

Furc has claimed miller
Reck has claimed tracker
I've claimed VT
Thor, Seacore, and Yates are really the only ones up in the air.

I always claim Awesome