Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Force of Nature]

/confirm

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: FURCOLOW

[Force of Nature]

YOUR DRUNK SCUMDAR IS CONFUSED AND NEEDS TO JOIN IN RIGHTEOUS ANNIHILATION.

[Force of Nature]

I have instructions that Furcolow is to be dead before it posts.
My own experiences make that plan sound pretty reasonable.

[Force of Nature]

Cease your dissent, mortal, FOR THE APOCALYNCH IS NIGH.

[Force of Nature]

RECK, HE PUT ELLIPSES IN HIS CONFIRM POST.
HE'S ALREADY 100% SCUM.
AND ON TOP OF THAT HE'S

FURCOLOW.

[Force of Nature]

I'm not SDC.
Who falls into the "SDC-lite" category?
In case it wasn't made clear previously, our hydra only has one posting head in each game, so don't worry about 'who posted what' stuff.

Also everyone who's posting thus far is pretty town.
ALL THE MORE REASON TO SMITE FURCOLOW.

[Force of Nature]

I see a lot of Grimmjow posting in other threads.
JOIN US IN DISPENSATION OF JUSTICE.

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SleepyKrew is obvscum with Furcolow.
Awesome.
And considering I convinced HIM how is this Reck's PL?

There is no "awaiting Furcolow."
Furcolow is to die before he reaches the thread.
THE HOT DOG MUST GO THE WAY OF THE CHICKEN DINOSAUR NUGGET.

[Force of Nature]

TOWN:
BLIZZARD
RECK
PINE
GRIMM
IMP

SCUM:
FURCOLOW
SLEEPYKREW

DINOSAUR CHICKENS:
Soda
Triangle
Per
Mattman

[Force of Nature]

Chicken Dinosaur nuggets are nuggets in the shape of chickens made from dinosaur meat. Science will soon make this possible.

[Force of Nature]

Blah.
THE JUSTICE will come later.
VOTE: Soda
FREEZE. AND. BURST. AND. DIE.

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: PINE
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Scum with Furc and Sleepy.

[Force of Nature]

^town
Looks like we've got this about wrapped up.
Maybe 1 of pine / SK / Furc is town, but 2 scumlynches out of the first 3 should put us in place to win.

[Force of Nature]

Hrmph, maybe Reck Pine and Furcolow?
'tis possible I suppose.

I am not sold on Sleepytown yet really though.

[Force of Nature]

Why did my one post where i reasonlessly declared one of your scumreads town sway you to think that you might be wrong on SK (or at least, that he's more town than pine/furc)?

Because I respect you and I reread SK after you said that.

[Force of Nature]

Furc is Reck's scumbuddy.
It's completely reasonable to be that certain of a buddy being scum.

[Force of Nature]

You sure are a spamasaurus today.

Your soda vote kinda sucks.
He's like the most town person.
Other than me of course.
Put it on Furc or Pine or maybe Reck, though I don't think votes on Reckscum are especially useful since we aren't lynching him D1 anyway.

[Force of Nature]

Actually it's possible I'm completely wrong about Soda.
Huh.

I think I'll USE MANY HEADED POWERS and hear from Hurricanes and Earthquakes and Tornadoes and Volcanoes and Bears and AIDS and Asteroids and Chuck Norris.
After that I may be ready for some real blood.

[Force of Nature]

Yeah actually lets go back here.
VOTE: SODA

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I'm llamarble.
Does that help?
Also there's no way I'm getting lynched this game.
Unless I get roleblocked on a no nightkill night again...
I town pretty hard when I'm town.

[Force of Nature]

In fact I could already probably make a pretty beastly case for why I'm town, though I don't think I'll need one.

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Especially since you Reck and I are basically all immune to D1 lynch anyway simply by virtue of expected usefulness down the line.

[Force of Nature]

Actually I like this. A lot.
VOTE: Triangle
With Sodabuddy.
Reck latching on to a random dude who turns out to actually be scummy feels fairly town.
And now that Reck and I are voting the same person a flock of sheep is due.

Also Grimmjow is probtown.

[Force of Nature]

Can we get game-has-started pokes on Yates Mattman Furcolow and Per?

[Force of Nature]

Head #2 here, doing a senseless hijack

Reckoner is scum. Grimm is probably scum.

Triangle is town.

Our hydra should be voting reck, but prolly won't be because the game head is less awesome than this head

"Kirk to enterprise, engage transporter"

*whiiiinnnneeeeee*

*disappears in sparkles*

[Force of Nature]

*Flips open communicator*

Oh yeah, case.

Well, lessee. Post 37/39 he disagrees with Pine on our behavior being a town tell despite apparently having a town read on us. Oh man, no cookies.

Post #44 he addresses Grimm for the first time and adds a disclaimer that will explain his odd behavior. Grimm responds oddly. I smell Quicktopics in the MORNING. And someone is more experienced with them than the other person.

Post #90 is free chainsaws for breakfast when triangle just called Grimm out for doing nothing (which is what he was doing, nothing)

Post #145 was just random shit, he knows more players who declare town-scum reads with no reasoning. See, me. Wait, you don't know me. Oh well, yeah, that was a buncha bullshit.

Also my nose smells scum, and my nose is awesome.

Rock and roll, dudes, dudettes, and people of ambiguous gender.

[Force of Nature]

Our vote is on triangle.

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Yep.

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I haven't actually read the case or your response yet.
I'll get there though.
You actually have me a little alarmed, but I'm sure we can find better scum today.

[Force of Nature]

Oh horseshit Reck.

You know what you've done wrong.

Bite me.

#2

[Force of Nature]

Zee masonry continues (hint not really masonry but shares QT)

[Force of Nature]

You guys need to FUCKING SIGN YOUR GODDAMNED POST if you're both going to be posting in here. Originally it was only ONE FUCKING PLAYER PER GAME and now both of you are posting and I have no clue who I'm talking to. Allow me to explain my posts:

- I responded to a case I assume was made by #2.
- ??? only responded by saying "Our vote was on triangle"

and

"I haven't read the case yet"/"You have me a little alarmed"
- I say "what" in response to FoN saying "I haven't read the case yet".
- FoN #2 responds by saying "You know what you've done wrong, bite me" which is still the furthest thing from a case I can actually see

I refuse to play with a hydra that keeps itself anonymous, uses meta on people without allowing us to use meta on it, and posts to be purposefully confusing. Resolve this shit now or I'm replacing out because you can be DAMN sure I'm not putting up with an entire game of this shit.

A member of the semi-anonymous screaming death clan hydra -

Which infamously voted for a wagon then condemned the entire wagon as scummy

- Is complaining that another hydra doesn't have its shit together and that he needs meta and that he's going to replace out if this shit continues.

Oh you are scum, Reckoner.

[Force of Nature]

The plan is to stick with one posting head.
I'll get caught up a bit later this evening.

[Force of Nature]

Truly, Furcolow is a magnificent creature. "Re-reading is what scum would do." Ha.
Anyway he's a town magnificent creature.
153, 154, 162, 164, 168 were head 2. All others me.

[Force of Nature]

Go make some ISOs or something Sleepy.

Vote: Soda

Pressure vote, I'm not convinced yet but I'd like to hear more what Soda has to say.

This is just godawful. At least call him scum or something.
How do we have Reck in this game and no real wagons yet.
TIME TO BE COLD... AND CALCULATING... THE SCUMBAGS.
Man that sentence was multiply meaningful and thematic and everything. Sometimes I'm just a poem monster.

[Force of Nature]

Huh, Grimmjow's pretty scummy.
Weird page one certainty into vote stinginess and general noncomittal attitude / failure to DO things.
Also "I'll lynch Furc if you let me."

Moving on.

[Force of Nature]

Implosion I'm pretty completely townsold on.

[Force of Nature]

You're town SleepyKrew.

[Force of Nature]

Jury still out on Pine. Maybe he'll call me an SK again.
Soda wagon has gotten meh and probably can die.
My triangle vote still feels excellent.
Yates is scum.
Haven't made my mind up on Reck. I haven't liked some of his stuff so far but Furc push & Triangle vote do feel good.

[Force of Nature]

TOWN:
FORCE OF NATURE
IMPLOSION
SLEEPYKREW

PROBTOWN:
FURCOLOW
SODA

GLORB:
RECK
PER
MATTMAN
PINE

SCUM:
GRIMM
YATES
TRIANGLE

WTF:
KONDI2424

[Force of Nature]

In my other game with Pine he randomly speculated about me being an SK.
We then lynched him D1 and he was scum.

I got Soda probtown from a pretty complete reread including ISOs of every single player.
My reads reversing entirely all the time is just what happens when I'm town.
I reread a lot of times until I get really locked in on a read, and then I lynch them.

Yates, when your scumteam bows before the power of llama, you will eat those words.
Aside from Reck and maybe Implosion I probably have the strongest track record of play here anyway.

[Force of Nature]

That is reasonable.
Just saying by the end of this game you'll have changed your mind.
Or I'll have had a bad game. Could happen.

[Force of Nature]

Also since I've played so poorly what on the above list do you disagree with?

[Force of Nature]

My judgements are actually very deeply reasoned, thank you very much.
So much so that it would actually be annoying to communicate all of my thoughts while reading. Pattern-matching especially is a pain to communicate.
As I think I've already said, cases are for when I want other people to do things, or just when I have a big chunk of time and feel like it.

Vote stinginess and failure to actually DO anything ARE scummy Reck.
And I remember how you treated Dram in Lovers Multiball.

I'm surprised you don't think of me as an upper-tier player.
I do win all the time (streak is currently at 11 games), so I have to be doing something right.

[Force of Nature]

Obviously winning 11 games in a row takes luck and good teammates, but it's been quite awhile since I lost a game for my team.
Also I personally did major damage to the scumteam in a solid fraction of them.

You agree my votes in the right place; Grimm's not getting lynched at the moment so let him defend himself.
Make yourself useful and raise more Triangle votes.

I'll be on later.

[Force of Nature]

Fate would probably tell you I'm good town and bad scum.

[Force of Nature]

Also since I've played so poorly what on the above list do you disagree with?

There is nothing to "disagree" with as you have been making judgements based on no real information, to the best of my knowledge.

I'm not asking what you think about what's behind my reads.
I'm asking who you think is town and who you think is scum.

[Force of Nature]

I didn't like Triangle's selection of the obvious thing to pick on, but I've actually convinced myself he's town at this point.
UNVOTE:
I promise a case for my next vote. This game seems to need one.

[Force of Nature]

Yates would be so much less scummy if his last couple of posts didn't have hyphens.

[Force of Nature]

He looks like the last time I played with him and he was town, though I was wearing scum-colored glasses at the time.
What meta are you thinking of?

[Force of Nature]

I don't really think scum try to "discredit" people.
Or at least that's something I've never consciously sought to make happen as scum.


VI stands for 'village idiot.'
It's basically a term for players who can't follow reason or fail to understand basics of the game.

[Force of Nature]

Yeah you seem sane. I just think calling a vote for pressure a "pressure vote" kind of defeats the purpose.
Also what prompted the Triangle = GF comment?

SK I don't think I ever answered your question.
I'm not sure I'll even remember what it was if I go back and look, unfortunately.
But yeah, being told by somebody I respect that I'm wrong does bias me toward seeing things their way.
Somewhere along the way I also looked at your meta. Except I didn't. What?
People asking about why you're reading them as town are also usually town, though scummeta may cover that now.

[Force of Nature]

I just read a lot of Sleepykrew ISOs. Could only find hats for scummeta though.
Still think he's probably town. 3AM llama is often crazy though.

[Force of Nature]

Yeah, Yates has worked his way to townland.

[Force of Nature]

Any explanation to that vote? Or are you just gonna sit there with a vote on me and expect everyone to wagon..

Scum have a way of asking for an explanation where town would essentially just call the accuser dumb or scum.

Looks like everyone is voting Furco but whatever

UNVOTE:

Honestly I felt like that was just an RVS vote too, but turned into a wagon.

I can see no purpose to unvoting here other than hiding.

How? I don't really see the Furco argument as logical, and my RVS wasn't either, so I thought we were still in RVS.

eb4p: cool I'm getting jumped and I just started. Life is GREAT!

are you serious? I hope not. Not claiming til I get to -1.

I hate it when people say someone's a liability, we're all one town, everybody should have a say in everything, and everyone should listen, but not act accordingly necessarily.

Don't see the hopping on RVS wagon as a scum-tell. It's early in the game, pressure needs to be had. So uh yea, why do you all think i'm a liability?

He has an ongoing theme of 'why am I being voted wahhh' rather than 'CEASE YOUR INSOLENCE LETS GO KILL SOME SCUM.'
He wants to engage his accusers and get them to go away rather than focusing on diving deep, figuring out the game, and finding scum.

Triangle vote on Grimm was very awful, for his reasons given. Augh.

Llama's floppiness is kind of a null-tell but usually it's a scum-tell.

However, I feel like this is the time to make my first real vote.

VOTE: SleepyKrew

SK ol' buddy,I really really hated it when you asked me to claim at l-3. That was really stupid, and it looks like rolefishing fmpov. Justify yourself.

'It looks like rolefishing' instead of 'SK is rolefishing scum.'
'Llama is floppy and kinda null but maybe scum'
There just isn't the assertiveness of a guy who knows his is the side of justice.

I really don't like Yates either, but it makes a really suspicious of triangle when she voted Yates right after Llama FOSed Yates and then unvoted her.

UNVOTE: SK
VOTE: Triangle

Triangle is a juicy juicy wagon of the breed scumbags <3.
I also think scum ponder mechanics of how to manipulate wagons (like voting somebody your accusers think is scum) more than town do, so that's kind of a scum thing to notice.

VOTE: SodaSpirit17

[Force of Nature]

Yeah, there are very few 100% scum only things.
Adding together several things that scum do more often than town leads to happy places though.

[Force of Nature]

YOU BETCHYER ASS, CAPTAIN!

Also this game hasn't had wagons getting actual traction because of ALL THE LURKERS.

[Force of Nature]

Not Voting (5):

Per, Kondi2424, Grimmjow, Mattman, Furcolow.

BE USEFUL.

[Force of Nature]

The number one reason towns lose is low morale / disinterest / lack of people doing things.
Everybody who doesn't have a vote in play needs to read the thread, place a vote, and note the most important reason they think the player they voted is scum.

[Force of Nature]

I can't come up with any reason Pine's opinion of your exact playskill would be useful to you as town.

[Force of Nature]

You've been spamfully asking irrelevant questions.
I was serious when I said you should do some ISOs or something.
You're not lurking, so try to figure out who scum are.

[Force of Nature]

QT kittens say SK is too whiny to live and must be purged.

[Force of Nature]

Implosion is my strongest townread.
His vote's on Soda because he didn't like post 64, which was the reason I voted Soda the first time too iirc.
He also calls Sleepy and me town in similar townish-sounding meta based posts.
Specifically he had no read on me until he found out who I was, and that information helped him figure out I was town. That is town thought process.

And he's transparent (you can see the town thought process as he just posts what he's thinking) in his other posting too.

If implosion is scum I'll be very very surprised, and we're definitely not lynching him today.

[Force of Nature]

I find most of the rest of your reads reasonable aside from Sodatown. Mattman feels honest but has like 2 posts.
Your reasoning for Reckscum isn't really sound, but I agree that he's somewhat suspicious so eh.

Too many people have townreads on Pine. I haven't seen anything he couldn't fake yet.
I don't want to lynch him today anyway though.

[Force of Nature]

Coming in and attacking a guy nobody's really suspicious of in a decently good overall post is good though; Uphill has successfully made a town first-impression.

Equinox is one of my heads.
I think the remaining two will reveal in their games.

[Force of Nature]

The fuck's a lurker whisperer?
I (llamarble) am the only head posting in this thread, so no soup for you.
Kondi may be scum. All she's done so far is make a vote on a lynchable guy with self-inconsistent reasoning.

[Force of Nature]

Wheeee

[Force of Nature]

Wheeee

On a side note he makes the best charts.

Still love all the arrows pointing at furcolow.

[Force of Nature]

Bah, I think I may have some inaccurate data in that gif I made.
Still it was actually pretty useful to stare at it and think about scumteams / what's been going on.
I bet Mastin would love that thing.
I'm really starting to believe in Pinescum.
Pine + Soda + Grimm or something like that.
I'm really tired now and shouldn't be posting.
Goodnight.

[Force of Nature]

I want to say that 403 is too blatantly scummy to be scummy, but from what I've observed I am uncertain that Mattman is competent enough to be that clever. In other words, as much as I want to dissect the WIFOM of OMGUSing that badly, I don't know if it's possible.

Your unwillingness to do so is so anti-Town that I have a hard time seeing actual scum doing it, which forces me to conclude that you're probably just remarkably stubborn Town.

Pinescummeta and Pine townmeta aren't hugely different stylewise. Guess I'll have to look at specific stuff.
But that's for tomorrow.

[Force of Nature]

Last time Reck used that face picture he was scum.
It feels a little unlikely that all he'd say about me is he dislikes the fact that another head popped in for three posts.
What about my content?
And it's a little weird that he's dismissive of impressions based on tone (post 376).

I just think townreck would be putting a tiny bit more effort into pushing the lynch he wants / explaining why.

[Force of Nature]

I don't care about the face picture, that was just amusing to me.
All you've said about me is that you didn't like head #2 popping in for a few posts and that you don't regard me as an upper tier player.

[Force of Nature]

Haha, I feel similarly about Reck voting Triangle for such a long time.

P.edit:
Pine keeps making me think he's scum.
My inner kittens are divided on him, which is a bit awkward.

[Force of Nature]

Actually I'm starting to want to vote Triangle myself.

Reck, who are Triangle's partners?
Right now I think Pine + ???
If you can fill in some possibilities for the ????s I'll feel better about this.
I don't really have enough non-town-reads if you're town, so something's broken.

[Force of Nature]

UNVOTE:

[Force of Nature]

For now lets do this and see what people think.
VOTE: Pine

ALL VOTERS ON A WAGON WITH 1 MEMBER SHOULD VOTE PINE SODA OR TRIANGLE.
Thank you.

[Force of Nature]

Actually Grimm is totally scum and I might want to do that instead.
Blahh.

Reck, how do you not think Grimm is scum here?

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: TRIANGLE VOTE:
Lynchtime.

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: Triangle

[Force of Nature]

I expect Pine to vote Triangle considering he's said he thinks Triangle is scummier but Soda is more of a liability (which is a good chunk of why Pine's scum).

[Force of Nature]

Yeah, I think he is.
I think Pine is counterwagoning.
3rd scum I have not too clear an idea.
The low density of scumminess overall makes me suspect Reck.

[Force of Nature]

That'd mean a lot of bussing though.
Ah well.

[Force of Nature]

I'm pretty confident Implosion is town mostly because of the "Oh! X's play super lines up with Xtown" stuff.
Maybe that's partially because I was one of the X's, but I feel generally fine about the rest of his stuff too.

[Force of Nature]

Also 535 makes me want to go back to voting Pine.
It's really hard for scum to resist "you have a townread on town for a bad reason; they should still be eligible for scumconsideration but I'm not going to push on them right now."
There are so many little things in Pine's posting that just give me a feeling he'll flip scum.
I kind of want to think about this more.
UNVOTE:
QUOTE STRIPIN' TIME.

Heh, Force of Nature can be Town,

at least for D1.

Careless attitude right out of the box makes me think "this person is not concerned about how people think of him (them?)", ergo Town.

Scum have a kind of urge to constantly qualify statements.
It's obvious a page 2 read isn't engraved in blood, so qualification is totally unnecessary here.

CONTRADICTIONS AND ATEEEEEEEEEEE
MY FAVS

ATE was my first thought too. Soda's reacting really scummy to this wagon.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Okay, pine apparently sees SK as on a similar wavelength to his own.

I'm hearing you on it, I just like Soda better for now.

PE: SK is either scum or really off his game this thread. Reck's right.

SK's voting THE SAME PERSON Pine is voting. People helping me lynch scum just aren't having bad games.
Also this is part of a bunch of Sleepy / Triangle / Yates attacking that goes on while Pine's vote sits happily parked on Soda:

Yates would be so much less scummy if his last couple of posts didn't have hyphens.

I agree. The hyphens are meant to convey pauses in thought, and they seem highly contrived and artificial. I missed that the first time through, thanks for pointing it out.

Pine. Please just answer this with a yes or no. Do. I. Play. Well. As. Town?

Not going to let this go, are you? It isn't a yes/no question, and phrasing irrelevant subjective questions in a black or white context is a classic scum tactic to then go "Aha!" The answer is that I believe you are capable of playing Town well, and I believe you are capable of playing Town poorly. In this case, I feel you are playing scum. Poorly.

Again, this scumread on sleepy is weird with his other scumreads. I think he wants to say A and B and C are all scummy let's lynch all of them instead of thinking A OR B OR C are scum and trying to figure out which is town. As town if my scumreads don't make sense together I have a POWERFUL URGE to try and figure out what's confusing me. Pine just maintains scumreads on a bunch of people and voteparks on Soda.

Any explanation to that vote? Or are you just gonna sit there with a vote on me and expect everyone to wagon..

Scum have a way of asking for an explanation where town would essentially just call the accuser dumb or scum.

I agree with the majority of your case on Soda, but not this. Personally, I can think of very, very little in this game more frustrating than being Town and having unexplained votes on me. I've gone batshit on people for not having good reasons (not counting RVS) for their votes, when all of mine (both as Town and as scum) are meticulously considered and usually explained in detail.

Your vote is parked on this guy but you nitpick part of my case... Bleh.

I want to say that 403 is too blatantly scummy to be scummy, but from what I've observed I am uncertain that Mattman is competent enough to be that clever. In other words, as much as I want to dissect the WIFOM of OMGUSing that badly, I don't know if it's possible.

ANOTHER guy he fencesits and vaguely leaves in the scumpile. Vote stays securely parked on Soda.

I answered your question a long time ago, at least twice. I decided to ignore your constant pestering to quote it, thinking you'd let it go and learn how to read my ISO. Your question was and is utterly irrelevant to the current game, and therefore continuing to hammer away at my refusal to answer it a third time is either really bad scum play or

ridiculously

bad Town play. Combined with your other scummy actions, it comes off strictly as an attempt to appear productive while making it seem like I'm not answering legitimate questions. This is a false premise. Your vote on me is based solely on this, which equates to really, really bad OMGUS.

Now go ISO me and kindly fuck off.

He sounds like he's yelling at somebody he knows is town (though Sleepy has been sitting on his scumlist) and is frustrated that they're stumbling into causing nuisance to scum by being stupid.

I think Pine is counterwagoning.

Pretty sure my opinions on Soda were registered long before the Triangle wagon began. Both wagons have their origins in the first few pages. But you're right, I will happily go over to the Triangle wagon if that's the one that's going to go through today. I feel both have roughly equal merits, though those merits are different.

Soda is scummy and a liability if Town. Triangle is very scummy, and though not a liability, will not be taken seriously if Town because of said scumminess.

Fence sitting super hard between two wagons while parked on one of them instead of trying to figure out which is the WAGON OF TRUTH just feels like the scum approach to the situation. Not to mention: If town starts running up a scumbag after running up town, scum will often lock in on the original townie who was run up to try and get them lynched instead rather than trying to start a new CW. You attacking various people while locked in on soda may be that. It's also possible Soda & Triangle are town and you're scum with Reck or some other pals.

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

He ISOed himself and saw he had said stuff during RVS and had to asterisk it to make it unimportant. If I see no reason to believe somebody is scum I just say so; who cares what I've said before if it's brought up I can explain. Also like I said before this is just such a fence-sit + townreadblock move.

[Force of Nature]

Well that was a wall, but I want to let other people understand what's bothering me about Pine and see if I can get some agreement / disagreement.
This town is frustratingly lacking in drive.
WALL SUMMARY for TLDRers:

1. Pine does fencesitty qualify-ey nitpicky stuff that collectively feels like scum trepidation.
2. He doesn't try to figure out WHICH of the people he's called scum are scum and which are town, he just vote parks on one guy and calls a bunch of other people scummy.
3. He thinks SK was on the ball early and voted Soda for much the same reason as SK (suggesting SK's playing well), but also accuses SK of being 'scum playing badly.' Then he yells at SK like he knows SK's town but is frustrated with SK over being caught for the wrong reasons. Side-by-side ISO highlights how scummy Pine's interaction with SK looks.

I've asked hurricane to pour over this stuff and tell me whether I'm crazy or not.

[Force of Nature]

If you're so convinced SK is bussing Soda (who you supposedly want to eliminate as a liability as opposed to a clear scum) then why are you voting Triangle.
It doesn't fit.
VOTE: Pine

I just checked out a few games of meta and as town, you list a lot of people as scum but you make guesses about what pairings make sense (A or B is scum but not both etc) and have an idea about what the scumteam might be in a way that you don't here.
You also don't do nearly the same level of qualify-ey nitpicky fencesitty stuff. (Pine fencesits as town but tries to figure out which is the right side of the fence instead of letting things just sit)

[Force of Nature]

Just so I don't get prodded again, my vote on Triangle stands and has not wavered.

What's your take on Pine?

[Force of Nature]

reck, am I still on the gay part of your list?

Well, If I'm right under Grimmjow, I'm okay with that.

Yates is POWERLURKING by the way.
I would be happy to see his corpse tomorrow morning.

DEADLINE IS IN 3 DAYS.
Also who the FUCK replaces into a game and then DOES NOTHING for several days. HINT: SCUM
^ is regarding Weirdalex.

Furcolow and Mattman need to put their votes someplace useful. (Pine or Triangle at this point). Implosion too actually.

[Force of Nature]

Llamarble, why is triangle scum?
Care to reveal your kittens?

[Force of Nature]

Yay content; apologies to Weird for yelling I just have been kinda frustrated with lurkercount overall this game.
Pine's latest does the whole 'consider my reads when I die' thing that is pretty common scumfare, but he does finally talk a bit about what one player in his scumlist's alignment would say about the others. OTOH that bit about SK is meh, as its a fairly weak reason to prefer one wagon over another (wouldn't sleepyscum just lie?) and makes Pine's Triangle vote look funny anyway.

Furcscum would probably claim something random; it seems like that would line up with furcolow's nature. I don't see Furc with Pine though so we'll see where things go. Furc, vote Pine or Triangle.

Weird, I (llamarble) am the only player in this hydra posting in the thread (except for that hiccup where head 2 popped in for 3 posts), so that may be why you didn't get hydra vibes from us until later on.

[Force of Nature]

UNVOTE:
Need to think later about voting not on his own counterwagon and claiming VT etc.
Probably will meta some.

[Force of Nature]

Voting somebody mainly because they voted you and you think you're somebody a scum would target and doing pretty much NOTHING the rest of the day is powerlurking.

Time to go check that Pinemeta.

[Force of Nature]

Pine's meta example does check out with how he acted when run up.
Scumbags sometimes use their own behavior as town to know what to do, but it's just :hard: not to vote on your own counterwagon as scum unless you're CONFIDENT town will eat it up.
VOTE: Triangle
If he flips town, Reck better be DARN USEFUL tomorrow because he's been calling me scum all day while NOT ENGAGING.

[Force of Nature]

Seriously, he calls me scum, I point out he's basically never said anything about me, and he's like "oh, fair enough."
Then he calls me scum again.
WTF is that.

[Force of Nature]

I'd be MUCH happier with lynching triangle today if it weren't for how bad Reck looks.

[Force of Nature]

I don't actually really think Sleepy's scum though.
And why wouldn't you ask :Reck: to consider that since he's the one who's been tunneled on Triangle the whole game.
Gah I want to lynch everybody.

[Force of Nature]

Deadline is in 2 days.
Can we get a Triangle claim now? If it comes any later we won't have time to do anything with it.

[Force of Nature]

Dammit sleepy do you ever read anything before asking questions??
NL will occur.

[Force of Nature]

What is with both wagons claiming VT and calling each other town.
Thoughts on a Yates flashwagon?

[Force of Nature]

Soda has a couple of minor towntells. "Augh" is a towntell because trying to figure out scum has a certain agonizingness to it.
"Pine was on my scumlist but not public" is also a towntell because scum don't really have reads that aren't part of their image.
I'm not interested in lynching Soda today.

Pine still bothers me a lot. He thinks the counterwagon to himself has a very good chance of being on scum, but isn't voting on it.
At this point we just need somebody to die. This game's activity level is just not sufficient for a new wagon on Reck/Grimm/Yates.
My townread on Implosion doesn't feel strong anymore, which provides another decent triangle buddy.

I don't feel like I have this one figured out and it makes me sad. Hopefully Mattman's replacement is an active player. I'm happy with Alex's content now and think he's town.
VOTE: Triangle

[Force of Nature]

Triangle has like 2 completed games. I'm not sure he'd realize claiming PR D1 as scum increased his survival odds.

[Force of Nature]

I do hate that Triangle is making zero effort not to get lynched.
Also the whole pine wagon feels town to me...

Town people:
Me
Furc
Uphill
Alex

Townish:
Mattman
Soda
SK? (outdated read)

Other people:
Reck (I just don't trust myself to read him at this point)
Grimm (outdated read)

Scummy people:
Yates
Implosion
Pine/triangle??

[Force of Nature]

If we want to lynch somebody who isn't pine / triangle I want it to be Yates or Implosion.

Implosion was town early, but at this point his play looks like calling some people (a bit too many, actually) solidly town and then coasting.

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: Grimmjow
He's so scummy I actually had an adrenaline rush while reading his posts.
Not to mention the several very good players in my QT pretty much agree on him as a scumread.
TERMINATE.

[Force of Nature]

Says the guy who's voting Shadow?
We're probably going to get a deadline extension out of Mattman flaking anyway.

[Force of Nature]

Yes! Nacho is a good player.

Grimmjow is scum because:
"I don't know what to make of Reck this game"
"FoN made the worst case ever. I'll ignore that for now."

Welp, I'm always hesitant to believe a miller claim. Some

asshole

guy in my last game claimed miller, but ended up not being miller or mafia, so yeah. Other than that, fairly unimpressed with Furcolow.

He just COMMENTS ON THINGS and never actually pushes anything home or sticks with anything or proposes solutions.
He dumps a fairly lousy/framey case on triangle and then votes him.

I don't care about him doing it in some other games, placing one vote the entire day while fencesitting on everything makes him more likely to be scum.

He's also been lurky/scummy most of the game but nobody has gone after him aggressively for it.
The scummy players nobody is actually attacking are very likely to be scum.

Specific stuff:
His "pine is obvtown" comment didn't make sense. Pine wasn't obvtown at all. And he just sticks to that Pine read instead of continually rethinking.

it seems to me, that you are trying to figure out how to be perceived as more town. Which is a scum motive.

This barb at sleepy was ENTIRELY without followup reading of sleepy. A lot of his things have zero followup.

AND HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RECK, WHO HE OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE INSIGHT ON, OTHER THAN THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF HIM. He's of course happy to co-wagon though.

Reck defended Grimm quite a bit then put him in his lurkers pile. He made several posts about his reads on Grimm and such, and when Grimm followed him onto Triangle he labeled Grimm town.

his play here looks EXACTLY like Modern Family where he lurked and made scummy comments then replaced out because he just wasn't feeling the game. This feels very similar.

This characterizes it pretty well. Lurking and scummy comments. I guess I'll go read that game after the Patriots annihilate the Steelers.
But Reck+Dram scum Dram was scummy and Reck was "he does this every game trust me" and they won.
That should not work twice.

[Force of Nature]

Hey Nacho, I think the vote graph I made earlier might be useful for catch up.
It doesn't cover some more recent stuff though I can update it I suppose.

[Force of Nature]

How many explicit prod dodge posts from Yates is that?
Come on man. If you want to play the game, play the game.
What are your reads on players other than Triangle?

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: SleepyKrew
I'll explain tomorrow.

[Force of Nature]

Black and White Mafia was the meta that made me decide not to worry about him making a lot of posts and assertive reads and stuff though.

[Force of Nature]

Tomorrow real life

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: Reck

[Force of Nature]

I've been reluctant to vote you all day because you're a good player and I misread you as scum in Elements, but I just keep getting scumimpressions from you.
If you're town this game then I might just totally give up on reading you for awhile other than by PoE.

Pine is scum too. Good response to getting run up, but scum.

Calling me useless is absurd. I've been more useful than anybody today.
VOTE: Pine
We don't need more claims today.

[Force of Nature]

Pine (5): SleepyKrew, Uphill, Furcolow, Weirdalexv, FoN.
Triangle123 (5): SodaSpirit17, Yates, Grimmjow, Reck, Nacho.
SleepyKrew (1): Pine
SodaSpirit17 (1): Implosion.

Not Voting (1):

Triangle123.

The Pine wagon is WAY more town-driven. Every single member of the Triangle wagon is at least somewhat scummy.

[Force of Nature]

Haha, you might be the only player on MS who I've falsely read as both town and scum.
I'm not the only one in here who thinks you're scum though.

[Force of Nature]

Me, myself, and I, if you catch my drift.

[Force of Nature]

Anyway, I imagine I'll be able to scrape sufficient sheep together after Pine flips scum.

It definitely said Force of Nature in the top right.

[Force of Nature]

(1): You trust the reads of SK, Uphillscum, Furc, and lurker more than you trust the read of me and Reck?
(2): Uphill is not town. SK is probably not town. Weirdalexv is lemons. You have townreads on all of them?

You have weird reads this game.
Where is Uphillscum from? WaV is pretty town so far. Furc is lolmillertown.
Sleepy's spammy but he's at least digging into things.
I expect there are zero or one scum on this wagon.

Grimmjow has been horrilurkiscummy and Reck is defending him on grounds that he's scummy as town, which is pretty much exactly what he did with Dramscum in Lovers' Multiball.
Reck has also been a lot less useful than I expect him to be as town and keeps defending scummy people / saying things that don't make sense like he has a scumread on me based on nothing.
Yates is bad news too. He just keeps popping in to prod dodge and say he has nothing to say.
Now you're here with bizarre reads and a sketchy predecessor. And Soda is his own bundle of lurking magic.

I trust the reads of the people in my QT who I know are town and are top-class players more than I trust you and Reck, both of whom I find scummy so far.

[Force of Nature]

Yo Triangle, you should probably vote Pine if you don't want to die.

[Force of Nature]

At this point deadline is in 24 hours and it's you or Triangle. You should both be voting each other at this point.

[Force of Nature]

Triangle lynch honestly isn't awful based on Triangle's posting.
I just have scumreads/inklings on so many people on that wagon.
Reck has just spent the entire game sitting on a triangle vote and chainsawing at anybody who attacks Grimmjow, who is scummy as all hell.

[Force of Nature]

Scum trying to lynch me doesn't typically end well for them.
My townspam is all powerful.
So bring it on.

[Force of Nature]

Huh, that Reckvote feels just a tad townish.
Soda still feels town though. That 'I have internal reads I haven't shared' post and the 'Triangle did something scummy augh' post feel town.
I'd rather lynch Triangle than soda.
Maybe both Pine and Triangle are scum and that's why they're so religiously failing to vote each other. Heh.

[Force of Nature]

What's your read on Pine if you find Grimmjow suspicious?

Sorry, haven't had time for MS.

FoN, why do you think Nacho is 'scummy' is it coz of his predecessor?

I'll admit I do hate this type of post.

[Force of Nature]

Eh, my full reread of Pine still leaves me feeling like he's scum.
If you guys do lynch Triangle I hope I'm proven wrong.

[Force of Nature]

Presumably Triangle will vote pine, then it's up to implosion.

[Force of Nature]

I have rereading to do, but I'll ramble a bit about stuff I've been pondering:
Signs both wagons were on scum:
1. Wagonees reluctant to lynch each other.
2. A scumwagon won out (it's difficult for scum vs town with lots of votes on each to result in a scumlynch D1)
3. Lots of attempts to start flashwagons.

Signs Triangle was bussed:
1. Wagon members were scummy players.
2. Yates did that "I'm locking in my vote on Triangle and am now going to be puff the magic lurker until I get some cred from that flip" thing.
3. Several other votes were locked on Triangle forever including Reck (powerbusser extraordinaire), Grimm, Soda.
4. Triangle was a very bussable player and responded to her wagon like a player who was getting bussed (not fighting as hard, etc)
5. Most people not on the Triangle wagon were respectably town.

I'm guessing it was either one on one off or two on with Pinescum.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

@FoN: I've played a good deal with Reck now, and I don't think he'd be willing to consider anyone other than Triangle at this point unless the Triangle wagon dies for today.

If SK were to flip Town, I'd support a D2 Triangle lynch with all of the evidence thus far presented returning in full force. If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle.

Hence why I'd prefer SK, then Triangle or Soda depending on flip.

@Implosion: Yes, good case. Soda is probably scum,

but isn't the lynch for today

Fuck it! There's conditional modifiers attached to the SK-Triangle relationship, and I'm a lot more confident of Soda at this point than I am of either SK or Triangle.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Obvscum first, then probscum, then conditionally-scum.

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum.

SKrew is a good alternative.

Excuse me?

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: Pine

Though Soda isn't totally unreasonable.
THERE IS MUCH TO DO.

[Force of Nature]

Uh... Contrapositive

[Force of Nature]

You said "If SleepyScum is true then TriangleTown is true"
TriangleTown was revealed to be false, so Sleepyscum cannot have been true without creating a contradiction.

I thought the whole 'sleepy slipped triangle's townhood' thing was dumb in the first place.

[Force of Nature]

"If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle"
Is pretty darn equivalent to "If sleepyscum is true than triangletown is true."
You definitely made a contradicty read-thingy.

[Force of Nature]

You said that if Sleepy was scum, he may have slipped Triangle being town.
This was why you thought Sleepyscum meant Triangle town.
Sure nothing is 100%, but if you say A scum means B town and B flips scum, A is now less likely to be scum.
This is dumb.

So who's scum Nacho?

[Force of Nature]

Haha Reck, you're not going to lynch me today.
I may not have been on the scum wagon at lynchtime yesterday, but even Pine / Nacho seem to be aware I towned pretty hard.

I wasn't mainly voting Pine for his reads-inconsistency, but it is something that bothers me.
And it was definitely worth pushing on.
VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Force of Nature]

As I said, I have a lot of reading to do. I ISOed sleepykrew and liked him as a Trianglebuddy.
Uphill's next on account of you voting for him.

[Force of Nature]

Uphill might be scum. I'll read more later.
Sleepy counterwagoned pretty hard for triangle without really showing a lot of evidence of thinking about Triangle.

I don't really see Pine as being scum. His posts are clear and thoughtful, and he presents cases with evidence and logical reasoning. This post also feels very town to me:

Reck, at this point, I'm 95% likely to be a mislynch at some point, whether it is D1 or later. Making that lynch not a waste is more important than preventing it.

I'm also not a loss for Town. I've said my piece and don't have an important role. So don't sweat it.

The only thing that bothers me about him is his statement about having a "crystal-clear" idea of who the scum are, but that seems more like a poor choice of words than anything else.

Also, I claim vanilla townie.

ehhhh why'd scum Triangle say that if Pine is town.

@Uphill: That's because triangle is scum and Soda is the counterwagon boom it's done he's town

I don't understand this reasoning. Uphill brings up a good point - you've weighed in on pretty much everything so far and yet you glossed over the bandwagon on Soda, stating simply that he's town without actually giving any reasoning to support that.

Hm.

[Force of Nature]

I hate it when people just say "WIFOM" instead of trying to figure out what's going on in scums' heads.
Obviously we have to guess whether scum were intentionally misleading us, but that doesn't mean what they wrote doesn't help us read off their buddies.

[Force of Nature]

I thought 601 felt odd if you're town and 386 looked like a scumlink to Uphill.
WIFOM by definition can't be followed? I now respect you a little less than I did before.

[Force of Nature]

Like seriously, you don't think you're sufficiently superior to Triangle, who has played 2 games, to try and follow what she was trying to accomplish with her posts?
386 isn't even wifom, it just looks like scum talking about a buddy. When scum says "X has a good point" X is usually either town going wrong or a buddy they want to give points to. I'm not sure how WIFOM factors into it at all.

[Force of Nature]

Also FoN's #750 is just planting the seeds of "oh hey look how easy I can jump to any of the following five wagons today" so he doesn't look scummy in doing so

Are you kidding me?
Even if I wasn't the type of player who reorients entirely on a regular basis to go after somebody I've previously barely mentioned / called town, that would be dumb. But I am.

[Force of Nature]

I can't even process this bumfucknowhere backwoods cousinfuckery of a post

Hahaha, I think Furc is arguing that he's town because Triangle said ellipses weren't a scumtell.
Which is silly, but at least parsable. I still think Furc's town.

Nacho, I'll make my next post nice and pretty for you. My reads are getting toward something like
Town:
FoN
Nacho
Furc
Reck
Pine
Yates

Dubious:
Soda
Grimm
Alex
Uphill
Skrew

[Force of Nature]

That Reckpost was a seriously lousy mudsling.
For one, Yates is a lurkasaurus and not on my scumlist. But yes, most of the active players seem town.
Nacho especially gets townpoints for being active; I think he's like me and can't help but lurk when he's scum.

[Force of Nature]

Every single player in this game has towntells. It's been difficult to get a bead.
Pine especially drives me nuts because he has dropped a LOT of tells in both directions.

Vote Soda or Pine or Grimm or Reck.

Why Grimm or Reck? Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't made a case for either of those two.

This looks distancy. The question is asked for the sake of asking a question and doesn't really carry any threat against SK.

Wow, Triangle. You are pushing pretty hard for no reason and with no evidence.

Wait - I put a hyphen in my post. Oh! And an ellipses... Those are surely scum tells. Now I see your rationale.

You'll notice that I didn't have a vote on the board [other than no lynch] expressly because I didn't feel as though there was any evidence to substantiate a vote. I'm not even bothered by people calling me scum or potential scum or scummy or whatever they want. That's how a discovery phase works. While I acknowledge that I'm not a fan of the sarcasm or tone of FoN or Sleepy's posts, I at least understand what they are trying to do. In fact, I believe that their pressure may have borne fruit in exposing YOU.

Vote: Triangle

Suspicious to me at present:
1. Triangle - Looks like you are trying to exploit a general distrust of Yates as seemingly the 2nd or 3rd option for players [190, 215, 224+225, 229+230, 237]. Plus, voting for a noob is the easy way out. No one is going to defend someone they don't know or particularly care for/about.
2. kondi2424 - random lynch vote with no explanation in 252

Less than suspicious to me at present:
1. Grimmjow - I agree with pretty much everything he says in post 253. A reluctance to random vote on Day 1 is not an immediate indicator of scum. To the contrary, it seems to indicate a reluctance to vote poorly. This is a position I at least understand. As indicated above, I also agree with his assessment of kondi. I can't even blame him for not liking my initial posts. I haven't had anything of substance to say until this post.
2. Implosion - Handled my "noob post" well in 176.
3. Sleepy - Handled my "cattle prod" well in 190.

Iffy:
Right now I'm iffy on Pine. Posts 195, 197 and 199, for example, show irrational flip-flopping. While that isn't an immediate incrimination because I did bait him a bit, it gives me cause for concern. At the very least, it gives me reason to pay a little extra attention to his posts and behavior.

That 'pushing pretty hard' from triangle amounted to ONE POST essentially saying "I think Yates is making posts with minimal content and stanceless comments. Vote: Yates"
He proceeds to vote Triangle for attacking the 'easy target' (him).
And then that vote is RIDICULOUSLY fire and forget as opposed to campaigned for and followed up on.
Thinking somebody's attacking an easy target is a FEEBLE reason to sit on them forever and never further discuss their (or anybody else's) posting.
Yates says later on that he wants to lynch me, and complains about me attacking him, but stays voteparked.
He voted because he was supposed to instead of because he was trying to lynch scum.
He has _one_ vote on him at this post's time, so I don't think he's worried about who's going to defend him other than hypothetically, which is where town and scum are the same anyway.


Bah, I got tired. I'm not even sure I make sense.
Sleepykrew I feel pretty good about though. He just did NOT engage with the triangle wagon other than to call Triangle town.

For the record, I :significantly: engaged with the wagons yesterday and constantly rethought, revoted, tried to figure out who was scum and to get scum lynched.
I also stirred things up and pressured people and played very independently.
I even redirected a lot of potential sidetracks back onto Triangle and voted Triangle myself a bunch of times.
I'm surprised my wagon has gotten as far as it has.

[Force of Nature]

FoN is doing a really bad job of trying to obfuscate obvious Town voting. At this point his antics have moved from being mildly irritating to flat out forum fecal discharge. There is no value in having him continue on for another day.

You're just a giant flying bundle of OMGUS aren't you.
Even though you voted scum yesterday and I didn't I've STILL been about 3 orders of magnitude more useful to town this game than you have.
Insulting me is unnecessary and if you're town I'm disappointed I have to drag you along for the win.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

Yates, as much as I fancy the idea of lynching FoN and bbq, we can't lynch that quickly, coz he has to claim and stuff.

As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks -- we can't lynch that quickly because we need to think up a nice, fancy claim. "Hurricane wants a chance to yell at people behind their backs in the QuickTopic" is a more precise reason, but I like pulling unfunnies behind my partners' backs sometimes.

I can be active while scum. You can also be active while scum.

These statements can be true. However, experience tells me they are not... at least in your case.

[Force of Nature]

That Reckpost was a seriously lousy mudsling.
For one, Yates is a lurkasaurus and not on my scumlist. But yes, most of the active players seem town.
Nacho especially gets townpoints for being active; I think he's like me and can't help but lurk when he's scum.

I can be active while scum. You can also be active while scum.

I flat out have been totally unable to masspost as scum the way I often do as town.
Maybe the first time I actually manage it I'll win a scumgame, but until then reading me as town in games where I post something like 140 times D1 is a safe bet.

CONSIDER:
My scumgames by postcount:
Outwitted - 99 and nearly half of it was in an outright 2v2 finding-holes-in-claims yelling match. I posted almost twice as much in the scum QT.
Beehive Mystery mafia - 70 posts
White Flag Mafia - 97 posts
Multiple Personality Mafia - 43 posts
Cookie Thief Mafia - 81 posts
New Jersey Shore - 27 posts

My recent towngames by postcount:
Strategy Mafia - 326 posts
Bedtime Stories - 197 posts
Atomic Mafia - 70 posts (Greymarble but this one was mostly me)
Flash Mafia III - 123 posts
Into Africa - 95 posts
1175 & 1156 (48, 82) (Greymarble)
Buffy mafia (29) we quicklynched all scum in 15 pages.
Mafia.exe - 176 posts
Mafia with Hydras - 106 (Mostly Grey's posting; for whatever reason I didn't post in thread as much in my Greymarble games)
Lovers Mafia - 86
Dilemma Mafia - 117 posts

Yeah yeah self meta but seriously it's pretty obvious which category I'm in this game.

[Force of Nature]

Sleepy seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
I guess he got all deflated and disinterested after scum got lynched. (Hint: even when you're not on the scumlynch it feels awesome to see scum die)

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

But if you're coming in here to post, then please post something useful. Llama is capable enough to handle tiny little posting like that.

Yeah, I could have just asked him to post that, but I felt like trolling the thread. At least it keeps me from trolling the QuickTopic, which all four of us can agree on. (It's also a totally subtle attempt to ask people to not hammer until this head has had a chance to read 30+ pages and weigh in. Ihihi. Okay, I'll lay off the candy now and be quiet until I've got something useful.)

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

I read 819 as little more than an attempt to puff up FoN's "defense by reputation". All of us that have been playing for a while know it exists; some people are simply able to stare down attempts to lynch them, even if it's for solid reasons. 819 contributes nothing, and uses intimidating comparisons as a way to bull past the accusations without engaging them. The very name "Force of Nature" is also a form of this, just like I thought your (Nacho) old avatar of Kennedy was a subtextual implication of honesty.

Hold on a second here. "Defense by reputation"? Are you saying Llamarble, seeing that he was going to get lynched for whatever reason, decided to grab me from the QuickTopic, have me come in here and flaunt my name for a bit, and that it was somehow going to make Force of Nature less likely to be lynched? I'm flattered! But no. Let me point you to two facts here: 1) my post had no content, and 2) my post contained nothing that would stop anyone on the wagon from lynching us apart from a quip, "Let me catch up privately and then you guys can do whatever you want." In other words, no quicklynching because if I want to feed you louts some WIFOM, I will damn well feed you WIFOM. You even acknowledge my post had no content! What candies did you get while trick-or-treating? I want me some of that.

Other than that, hats off to your excellent troll, good sir. I hope we will have this opportunity again when I'm not hijacking somebody else's game.

[Force of Nature]

I read 819 as little more than an attempt to puff up FoN's "defense by reputation". All of us that have been playing for a while know it exists; some people are simply able to stare down attempts to lynch them, even if it's for solid reasons. 819 contributes nothing, and uses intimidating comparisons as a way to bull past the accusations without engaging them. The very name "Force of Nature" is also a form of this, just like I thought your (Nacho) old avatar of Kennedy was a subtextual implication of honesty.

LOL. You just reminded me of the

GIGANTIC

walls I made yelling at Parama in my newbie game for using wording to make people believe his points more than they would simply on logical merit. Reck modded that game, actually. No wonder he thinks I'm bad... (first impressions etc)

Also, I don't think my reputation is doing me any favors this game.
Half the votes on me are because of who I am / my posting style anyway.

Anyways, I am happy to engage with whatever accusations.
But out of what's been posted so far what the hell am I supposed to engage with?
Yates has pretty much just voted me entirely for voting him and calls my posting quality low. Maybe someday he'll make an actual accusation.
I called Reck out for calling me scum repeatedly with no actual complaint about my content and he admitted that was the case.
He hasn't added anything since then except a vote on me and a couple pathetic mudslings that I've already answered.
(Reck I think you're better at mafia than me but 765, 769, and 798 are shitposts)
I guess he mentioned he didn't like me rethinking Pinescum when Pine claimed VT and failed to vote his own CW; I don't know what about that bothered him.
You called me town most of D1 then made one or two posts saying "FoN is becoming scummy as hell let's line up his lynch for D2."
You made factually incorrect 779 and voted me. I addressed that already.
Soda actually made a post accusing me of something. I guess I'll talk about that.

But my main concern is FoN atm, because he said that the Pine wagon was more town driven. I know it was possible for Triangle to have been bussed, but uh, I think he could have tried to make his buddy look good by getting an easy possible mislynch in. His d1 playstyle was also really weird, I've played with him before and I don't know, he was more 'serious'. Of course maybe that was cause he was basically confirmed town in the game we played in but I really don't know. I think our lynch should be between Pine and FoN so.
VOTE: FoN

I said the Pine wagon was more town driven because I felt it was more town driven. Had I actually been Triangle's buddy I imagine I'd have made much more of an effort to convince Implosion to vote Pine instead of staying stuff like 'actually Triangle lynch is pretty good too the wagon just bothers me' or whatever it was. Or I'd simply have voted Triangle; groundwork would obviously have been there.
As for the serious thing, I've been serious this game too, so I'm not sure what you mean.
Do you mean the whole "I'm a blizzard" theme? That's because this is a new hydra I'm excited about.


Nobody actually cares whether your lynch makes logical sense though or whether you answer every accusation or whatnot.
The way to get people not to lynch you is by showing them who is actually scum.
SO PREPARE FOR THE GUIDED TOUR YOU DUCKS.

[Force of Nature]

Equi and I didn't coordinate at all on those last few posts, so apologies if they flow weirdly. Heh.
Also that guided tour will be happening tomorrow because it's absurd Oclock.

[Force of Nature]

You're being stupid.
Sure I use force of personality to help make who I want to lynch get lynched. This is very good for my win percentage. Most good players do this.
That doesn't mean I'm deflecting / ignoring legitimate accusations or any such nonsense.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING ME HAVE, BY AND LARGE, SAID

JACK SHIT

ABOUT ANYTHING IN MY 150 POSTS OF CONTENT THAT SEEMS LIKELY TO HAVE COME FROM SCUM. AND WHAT LITTLE THEY HAVE SAID IS COMPLETE GARBAGE.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

You people, with this new hydra composed of a somewhat-nebulous team of moderate heavyweights, is attempting to create, out of whole cloth, an intimidating reputation. So perhaps "Defense by intimidation" is a better term for it.

Let me get this straight. You're accusing us of making a hydra name and using intrahydra nicknames that sound intimidating to somehow lessen our chances of getting lynched wherever this hydra plays, and this is somehow relevant to our position, and apparently your case, in this game.

Please return and reread posts 821 and 828 when you're sober.

[Force of Nature]

I shouldn't have said you're being stupid, but you are misguided to a degree that is annoying me into insulting you.
I do respect you even if I think it's ridiculous you don't believe in trying to figure out who the wine is in front of.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

I'm done hijacking the thread, since I have some reading of it to do. However, this is something only I can answer, so here we are.

And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

Since you've never played with me before, I'll give you a hint: That is my own brand of rhetoric, and you'll see it in any game of mine you read. If I wanted to drive people off our wagon, I would be a lot less subtle about it, and I am by no means incapable of building a case against our lynch or against any of the people on the wagon. I don't run by making people "subconsciously" decide to not lynch me. I do it by making them think through it logically and then consciously making the decision. Logic is what sticks solid in people's minds, not some gut twinge triggered by subliminal messages; gut is too fluid for that to be effective in the long-term.

"All of that is WIFOM!" you may say. Well, don't say I didn't warn you.

But you can think what you think, and I'll just berate your silliness in the post-game or in the graveyard when things like win conditions don't get in the way of a good argument. In the meantime, I need to get a head start on Llamarble before he wakes up, since I've just now broken my promise to stop spamming his game.

[Force of Nature]

In

this situation

it's a scum tactic. Throwing your weight (or perceived weight) around when you're trying to push a wagon you believe in is a Town tactic. Trying to stare down a wagon forming on you when they have legitimate concerns is scummy. Same tactic, different situations, different motivations.

This is just ridiculous.
I am going to do everything in my power not to get lynched because getting lynched is absolutely the worst thing you can do as town.
This includes baring my thoughts / emotions, using my reputation as a player who is good to keep around, pure browbeating, or anything else within the game rules.

[Force of Nature]

150 posts of content? Most of that is jumping from vote to vote without really digging deep into those suspicions, augmented by fluffy chest-beating and doing what you can to discredit your detractors (see 830). Take your late D1 charge against me, for example. You did jack all to really advance a case against me, and as soon as suspicion was thrown your way and evidence really started to mount that I was the scum-driven counterwagon, you jumped off and decided you were just kidding. That's happened with practically every one of your aborted wagons. In fact, most of the flash wagons that have been started and abandoned have been inspired by you.

I'm quite awake and sober, and using subtle cues against your opponents in a game that is largely based on social acumen and wit is an old, old trick. Again, Nacho's old avatar is a ready example. He used an inspirational head shot of Kennedy, a man who almost everyone has at least a reasonably positive image of. It immediately evokes a sense of trust, especially in Americans, especially young Americans, who comprise the vast majority of this site's player base. And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

This sounds like you think Nacho's AVATAR was a scumtell.
I DID JACK ALL TO ADVANCE A CASE AGAINST YOU? WUT.
Yes, I repeatedly rethought and went back and forth. AND AS I DID THAT A LOT OF THE TIME I SAID WHAT MY MOTIVES WERE.

[Force of Nature]

Also 535 makes me want to go back to voting Pine.
It's really hard for scum to resist "you have a townread on town for a bad reason; they should still be eligible for scumconsideration but I'm not going to push on them right now."
There are so many little things in Pine's posting that just give me a feeling he'll flip scum.
I kind of want to think about this more.
UNVOTE:
QUOTE STRIPIN' TIME.

Heh, Force of Nature can be Town,

at least for D1.

Careless attitude right out of the box makes me think "this person is not concerned about how people think of him (them?)", ergo Town.

Scum have a kind of urge to constantly qualify statements.
It's obvious a page 2 read isn't engraved in blood, so qualification is totally unnecessary here.

CONTRADICTIONS AND ATEEEEEEEEEEE
MY FAVS

ATE was my first thought too. Soda's reacting really scummy to this wagon.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Okay, pine apparently sees SK as on a similar wavelength to his own.

I'm hearing you on it, I just like Soda better for now.

PE: SK is either scum or really off his game this thread. Reck's right.

SK's voting THE SAME PERSON Pine is voting. People helping me lynch scum just aren't having bad games.
Also this is part of a bunch of Sleepy / Triangle / Yates attacking that goes on while Pine's vote sits happily parked on Soda:

Yates would be so much less scummy if his last couple of posts didn't have hyphens.

I agree. The hyphens are meant to convey pauses in thought, and they seem highly contrived and artificial. I missed that the first time through, thanks for pointing it out.

Pine. Please just answer this with a yes or no. Do. I. Play. Well. As. Town?

Not going to let this go, are you? It isn't a yes/no question, and phrasing irrelevant subjective questions in a black or white context is a classic scum tactic to then go "Aha!" The answer is that I believe you are capable of playing Town well, and I believe you are capable of playing Town poorly. In this case, I feel you are playing scum. Poorly.

Again, this scumread on sleepy is weird with his other scumreads. I think he wants to say A and B and C are all scummy let's lynch all of them instead of thinking A OR B OR C are scum and trying to figure out which is town. As town if my scumreads don't make sense together I have a POWERFUL URGE to try and figure out what's confusing me. Pine just maintains scumreads on a bunch of people and voteparks on Soda.

Any explanation to that vote? Or are you just gonna sit there with a vote on me and expect everyone to wagon..

Scum have a way of asking for an explanation where town would essentially just call the accuser dumb or scum.

I agree with the majority of your case on Soda, but not this. Personally, I can think of very, very little in this game more frustrating than being Town and having unexplained votes on me. I've gone batshit on people for not having good reasons (not counting RVS) for their votes, when all of mine (both as Town and as scum) are meticulously considered and usually explained in detail.

Your vote is parked on this guy but you nitpick part of my case... Bleh.

I want to say that 403 is too blatantly scummy to be scummy, but from what I've observed I am uncertain that Mattman is competent enough to be that clever. In other words, as much as I want to dissect the WIFOM of OMGUSing that badly, I don't know if it's possible.

ANOTHER guy he fencesits and vaguely leaves in the scumpile. Vote stays securely parked on Soda.

I answered your question a long time ago, at least twice. I decided to ignore your constant pestering to quote it, thinking you'd let it go and learn how to read my ISO. Your question was and is utterly irrelevant to the current game, and therefore continuing to hammer away at my refusal to answer it a third time is either really bad scum play or

ridiculously

bad Town play. Combined with your other scummy actions, it comes off strictly as an attempt to appear productive while making it seem like I'm not answering legitimate questions. This is a false premise. Your vote on me is based solely on this, which equates to really, really bad OMGUS.

Now go ISO me and kindly fuck off.

He sounds like he's yelling at somebody he knows is town (though Sleepy has been sitting on his scumlist) and is frustrated that they're stumbling into causing nuisance to scum by being stupid.

I think Pine is counterwagoning.

Pretty sure my opinions on Soda were registered long before the Triangle wagon began. Both wagons have their origins in the first few pages. But you're right, I will happily go over to the Triangle wagon if that's the one that's going to go through today. I feel both have roughly equal merits, though those merits are different.

Soda is scummy and a liability if Town. Triangle is very scummy, and though not a liability, will not be taken seriously if Town because of said scumminess.

Fence sitting super hard between two wagons while parked on one of them instead of trying to figure out which is the WAGON OF TRUTH just feels like the scum approach to the situation. Not to mention: If town starts running up a scumbag after running up town, scum will often lock in on the original townie who was run up to try and get them lynched instead rather than trying to start a new CW. You attacking various people while locked in on soda may be that. It's also possible Soda & Triangle are town and you're scum with Reck or some other pals.

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

He ISOed himself and saw he had said stuff during RVS and had to asterisk it to make it unimportant. If I see no reason to believe somebody is scum I just say so; who cares what I've said before if it's brought up I can explain. Also like I said before this is just such a fence-sit + townreadblock move.

Well that was a wall, but I want to let other people understand what's bothering me about Pine and see if I can get some agreement / disagreement.
This town is frustratingly lacking in drive.
WALL SUMMARY for TLDRers:

1. Pine does fencesitty qualify-ey nitpicky stuff that collectively feels like scum trepidation.
2. He doesn't try to figure out WHICH of the people he's called scum are scum and which are town, he just vote parks on one guy and calls a bunch of other people scummy.
3. He thinks SK was on the ball early and voted Soda for much the same reason as SK (suggesting SK's playing well), but also accuses SK of being 'scum playing badly.' Then he yells at SK like he knows SK's town but is frustrated with SK over being caught for the wrong reasons. Side-by-side ISO highlights how scummy Pine's interaction with SK looks.

I've asked hurricane to pour over this stuff and tell me whether I'm crazy or not.

If you're so convinced SK is bussing Soda (who you supposedly want to eliminate as a liability as opposed to a clear scum) then why are you voting Triangle.
It doesn't fit.
VOTE: Pine

I just checked out a few games of meta and as town, you list a lot of people as scum but you make guesses about what pairings make sense (A or B is scum but not both etc) and have an idea about what the scumteam might be in a way that you don't here.
You also don't do nearly the same level of qualify-ey nitpicky fencesitty stuff. (Pine fencesits as town but tries to figure out which is the right side of the fence instead of letting things just sit)

Yay content; apologies to Weird for yelling I just have been kinda frustrated with lurkercount overall this game.
Pine's latest does the whole 'consider my reads when I die' thing that is pretty common scumfare, but he does finally talk a bit about what one player in his scumlist's alignment would say about the others. OTOH that bit about SK is meh, as its a fairly weak reason to prefer one wagon over another (wouldn't sleepyscum just lie?) and makes Pine's Triangle vote look funny anyway.

Furcscum would probably claim something random; it seems like that would line up with furcolow's nature. I don't see Furc with Pine though so we'll see where things go. Furc, vote Pine or Triangle.

Weird, I (llamarble) am the only player in this hydra posting in the thread (except for that hiccup where head 2 popped in for 3 posts), so that may be why you didn't get hydra vibes from us until later on.

Pine's meta example does check out with how he acted when run up.
Scumbags sometimes use their own behavior as town to know what to do, but it's just :hard: not to vote on your own counterwagon as scum unless you're CONFIDENT town will eat it up.
VOTE: Triangle
If he flips town, Reck better be DARN USEFUL tomorrow because he's been calling me scum all day while NOT ENGAGING.

Soda has a couple of minor towntells. "Augh" is a towntell because trying to figure out scum has a certain agonizingness to it.
"Pine was on my scumlist but not public" is also a towntell because scum don't really have reads that aren't part of their image.
I'm not interested in lynching Soda today.

Pine still bothers me a lot. He thinks the counterwagon to himself has a very good chance of being on scum, but isn't voting on it.
At this point we just need somebody to die. This game's activity level is just not sufficient for a new wagon on Reck/Grimm/Yates.
My townread on Implosion doesn't feel strong anymore, which provides another decent triangle buddy.

I don't feel like I have this one figured out and it makes me sad. Hopefully Mattman's replacement is an active player. I'm happy with Alex's content now and think he's town.
VOTE: Triangle

I do hate that Triangle is making zero effort not to get lynched.
Also the whole pine wagon feels town to me...

Town people:
Me
Furc
Uphill
Alex

Townish:
Mattman
Soda
SK? (outdated read)

Other people:
Reck (I just don't trust myself to read him at this point)
Grimm (outdated read)

Scummy people:
Yates
Implosion
Pine/triangle??

Pine (5): SleepyKrew, Uphill, Furcolow, Weirdalexv, FoN.
Triangle123 (5): SodaSpirit17, Yates, Grimmjow, Reck, Nacho.
SleepyKrew (1): Pine
SodaSpirit17 (1): Implosion.

Not Voting (1):

Triangle123.

The Pine wagon is WAY more town-driven. Every single member of the Triangle wagon is at least somewhat scummy.

I have rereading to do, but I'll ramble a bit about stuff I've been pondering:
Signs both wagons were on scum:
1. Wagonees reluctant to lynch each other.
2. A scumwagon won out (it's difficult for scum vs town with lots of votes on each to result in a scumlynch D1)
3. Lots of attempts to start flashwagons.

Signs Triangle was bussed:
1. Wagon members were scummy players.
2. Yates did that "I'm locking in my vote on Triangle and am now going to be puff the magic lurker until I get some cred from that flip" thing.
3. Several other votes were locked on Triangle forever including Reck (powerbusser extraordinaire), Grimm, Soda.
4. Triangle was a very bussable player and responded to her wagon like a player who was getting bussed (not fighting as hard, etc)
5. Most people not on the Triangle wagon were respectably town.

I'm guessing it was either one on one off or two on with Pinescum.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

@FoN: I've played a good deal with Reck now, and I don't think he'd be willing to consider anyone other than Triangle at this point unless the Triangle wagon dies for today.

If SK were to flip Town, I'd support a D2 Triangle lynch with all of the evidence thus far presented returning in full force. If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle.

Hence why I'd prefer SK, then Triangle or Soda depending on flip.

@Implosion: Yes, good case. Soda is probably scum,

but isn't the lynch for today

Fuck it! There's conditional modifiers attached to the SK-Triangle relationship, and I'm a lot more confident of Soda at this point than I am of either SK or Triangle.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Obvscum first, then probscum, then conditionally-scum.

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum.

SKrew is a good alternative.

Excuse me?

Like seriously, you don't think you're sufficiently superior to Triangle, who has played 2 games, to try and follow what she was trying to accomplish with her posts?
386 isn't even wifom, it just looks like scum talking about a buddy. When scum says "X has a good point" X is usually either town going wrong or a buddy they want to give points to. I'm not sure how WIFOM factors into it at all.

JACK ALL, HUH?
I THINK THAT'S AT LEAST 8X AS MUCH AS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS SAID ABOUT ME.

[Force of Nature]

In my last few games I've changed my vote more than anybody else.
Sudden reversals and vote hopping are HOW I ROLL.
It has worked well for me; smashing things up / constantly viewing the game from different angles helps both me and the rest of town get good reads come lynchtime.
What is this 'changing my cases to suit public opinion' you speak of? I'm pretty sure I've been on a lot of both popular and unpopular wagons.

As for what Yates said, as lynchtime approached I thought Triangle would flip town and Pine would flip scum.
So I told triangle to vote Pine when Pine was the only alternative to her own lynch.
And I voted Pine.
I felt kind of unsure about the whole thing though and didn't yowl as loud as I might have had I felt more sure Triangle was town / Pine scum.
I think if I had actually been trying to prevent a D1 scumlynch I could've persuaded Implosion, who thought I was town and respects me.
Reck, your accusation that I "VEHEMENTLY" tried to stay off the triangleScum wagon is flat out wrong.

[Force of Nature]

Actually I like this. A lot.
VOTE: Triangle
With Sodabuddy.
Reck latching on to a random dude who turns out to actually be scummy feels fairly town.
And now that Reck and I are voting the same person a flock of sheep is due.

Also Grimmjow is probtown.

Jury still out on Pine. Maybe he'll call me an SK again.
Soda wagon has gotten meh and probably can die.
My triangle vote still feels excellent.
Yates is scum.
Haven't made my mind up on Reck. I haven't liked some of his stuff so far but Furc push & Triangle vote do feel good.

Obviously winning 11 games in a row takes luck and good teammates, but it's been quite awhile since I lost a game for my team.
Also I personally did major damage to the scumteam in a solid fraction of them.

You agree my votes in the right place; Grimm's not getting lynched at the moment so let him defend himself.
Make yourself useful and raise more Triangle votes.

I'll be on later.

Actually I'm starting to want to vote Triangle myself.

Reck, who are Triangle's partners?
Right now I think Pine + ???
If you can fill in some possibilities for the ????s I'll feel better about this.
I don't really have enough non-town-reads if you're town, so something's broken.

VOTE: TRIANGLE VOTE:
Lynchtime.

VOTE: Triangle

I expect Pine to vote Triangle considering he's said he thinks Triangle is scummier but Soda is more of a liability (which is a good chunk of why Pine's scum).

Pine's meta example does check out with how he acted when run up.
Scumbags sometimes use their own behavior as town to know what to do, but it's just :hard: not to vote on your own counterwagon as scum unless you're CONFIDENT town will eat it up.
VOTE: Triangle
If he flips town, Reck better be DARN USEFUL tomorrow because he's been calling me scum all day while NOT ENGAGING.

I'd be MUCH happier with lynching triangle today if it weren't for how bad Reck looks.

Soda has a couple of minor towntells. "Augh" is a towntell because trying to figure out scum has a certain agonizingness to it.
"Pine was on my scumlist but not public" is also a towntell because scum don't really have reads that aren't part of their image.
I'm not interested in lynching Soda today.

Pine still bothers me a lot. He thinks the counterwagon to himself has a very good chance of being on scum, but isn't voting on it.
At this point we just need somebody to die. This game's activity level is just not sufficient for a new wagon on Reck/Grimm/Yates.
My townread on Implosion doesn't feel strong anymore, which provides another decent triangle buddy.

I don't feel like I have this one figured out and it makes me sad. Hopefully Mattman's replacement is an active player. I'm happy with Alex's content now and think he's town.
VOTE: Triangle

Triangle lynch honestly isn't awful based on Triangle's posting.
I just have scumreads/inklings on so many people on that wagon.
Reck has just spent the entire game sitting on a triangle vote and chainsawing at anybody who attacks Grimmjow, who is scummy as all hell.

Huh, that Reckvote feels just a tad townish.
Soda still feels town though. That 'I have internal reads I haven't shared' post and the 'Triangle did something scummy augh' post feel town.
I'd rather lynch Triangle than soda.
Maybe both Pine and Triangle are scum and that's why they're so religiously failing to vote each other. Heh.

Eh, my full reread of Pine still leaves me feeling like he's scum.
If you guys do lynch Triangle I hope I'm proven wrong.

719 is perhaps the best example. Why the HELL would I say Triangle lynch was decent if I was trying to convince the last couple people to vote Pine over Triangle?

[Force of Nature]

Haha, I honestly have no problem with anyone who isn't voting me skipping my admittedly pretty long self-defense posts.
I'll be doing some casewriting on SK today.
Equi thinks Nacho, Pine, Yates, and Furc are all town and I tend to agree but with reservations about Yates.

[Force of Nature]

Kondi: Why the vote on SK?

Slight associative tell. Why does Triangle care about who Kondi's voting if it's not her buddy?
Triangle referring to sleepy by the nickname SK also gives me the littlest twinge.

Vote Soda or Pine or Grimm or Reck.

Why Grimm or Reck? Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't made a case for either of those two.

Same sort of thing here. These pointless questions are a tad more likely to be either asked of scumbuddies or about scumbuddies.

Actually Sleepy was the first onto both of the big wagons he was on.
Also Implosion thought Sleepy and I were town, so us being the two people Reck / others have expressed interest in lynching is pretty sketchy.
I still can't say that I trust Reck. Though if Imp was a threatkill for :anyone: it would be Soda.

I'd be all over Soda not for this:

I really don't like Yates either, but it makes a really suspicious of triangle when she voted Yates right after Llama FOSed Yates and then unvoted her.

UNVOTE: SK
VOTE: Triangle

Eh, the Sleepy side of Sleepy-Triangle is AWESCUM.
He says basically NOTHING about whether he thinks Triangle, main wagon of the day, is scum / why.
Collecting Sleepy's mentions of Triangle:

[Force of Nature]

What about his contradictions and AtE and stuff?
What about Reck and triangle?
Why aren't you voting?
Who's scum?

Reck is defscum. No way town Reck would vote a lurker after tunneling on triangle so hard.

SS be useful. triangle be useful. alex why am I scum? Furc and Uphill be useful.
Vote Soda or Pine or Grimm or Reck.

Pine, so am I a hardcore busser or a distancer? You've said both now.
I am not pushing triangle because I don't think he's scummy.
triangle, you are mistaken.

So is triangle scum or no?

Llamarble, why is triangle scum?
Care to reveal your kittens?

Reck. Vote Pine and I'll help with a triangle lynch tomorrow.

I will

bus

vote Soda at deadline if needed, but don't see a Sodalynch happening.
Still waiting for someone to tell me why triangle is scum.

Excuse me for catching all the scum in one day. I'll be sure to only do one at a time from now on.

You're not that good at this game, and you know you're not that good at this game.
So why the pretense?

Because my play's been up recently and normally I'm not too confident in my reads, but I feel sooper confident right now. Expect my normal postgame apology if I'm wrong.

Now please, WHY is triangle scum?

554 is especially bad. He doesn't think Triangle is scum, but he'll be willing to help lynch Triangle tomorrow?
This game has seen an unrealistic level of certainty from Sleepykrew.
Not to mention all the "please elucidate the case on Triangle so I can argue about it" stuff.

[Force of Nature]

So you think I'm systematically killing off people who think I'm town???
Also Nacho Neighborized me last night, which would mean I knew he wasn't a viable PR anymore.
He also neighborized Pine N1, in case anybody wanted proof.
His top scumpicks were Reck and Uphill.
VOTE: Reck


And yes, Yates quickhammering was a dumbass epicmafia move.

[Force of Nature]

Specifically I said I thought Reck was scum and wanted a cop to target him so I didn't have to fight so hard to lynch him.
His reply was that a cop wasn't necessary and he was pretty sure Reck's scum.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

Vote: xRECKONERx

You fucking scumbag. You had it all lined up, didn't you? Powerbus triangle123 for fuel to run all the way to LyLo. Try to kill Force of Nature. Force of Nature brings up a case on SleepyKrew. "Oh, oopsie daisies! I mixed up you and SleepyKrew!" Holy stroke of luck, you got yourself a mislynch for both Day 2

and

Day 3! It's like magic! Of course, when we flip town, you'll start running down whoever got it in their silly noggins that we needed to die, and then you got yourself a scum win.

Am I claiming? No, I will not. If you louts decide that you guys want some more QUICKLYNCH WHEE, then go right fucking ahead. I will sit here, smug SOB that I am, crying and laughing when you run right into the clutches of a scum victory.

If you want a case or something, ask Llamarble for one.

Oh, I see Llamarble's already voted xRECKONERx for me. Awesome. Now I will post this for the sheer amusement of watching certain people come in to say, "Force of Nature is scum! They're faking rage just like I did in that one game with the exploding cars so that they could coast to LyLo! Hurry up and lynch them before they start SPAMMING THE THREAD and hitting all the right notes!" *cackle*

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

oh and also

the best of the best

"LOOK AT HOW THEY FEARMONGER"

I AM NOT DENYING IT

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

If you ask me a third time, I might consider consulting a fortune cookie.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

I'm too lazy to think of a fake claim.

Okay, fine, I'll be serious for about 2 seconds before I revert back to rage troll mode because this wagon is shit and you guys won't be able to tell until we're dead and flipped. If we were something that required claiming, I would have claimed instead of baiting votes. In more explicit terms, we're a vanilla townie.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

WHY YES I AM USING THE IRISH CARBOMB RAGE MODE TECHNIQUE

I HEARD IT WORKED WELL

HAHAHAHA

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

Well, then, I hope your floor is clean because you're about to kiss it.

Where's your vote, SodaSpirit17? You can't possibly be getting cold feet now.

Thanks. But was it really hard to just say "we're vt"?

Yes, it was that hard.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

Yates is already on the wagon.

But I won't argue further because

I need more time to prepare my ultimate WIFOM dish

the voices of Furcolow, Grimmjow, and weirdalexv need to be heard anyway.

[Force of Nature]

Look how fast the wagon on me yesterday built. Then look how fast it went away. And now look how fast it came back.
If you think that's forces of town, you're crazy.

And yes my being neighborized by Nacho is provable because he told me he neighborized Pine N1 and Pine is STILL ALIVE.
No way I have that information unless I actually was his neighbor.
Not to mention the fact that somebody else would counterclaim.

[Force of Nature]

Wagons made out of townies don't randomly go "TROLOLOL OKAY LET'S GO QUICKWAGON/HAMMER THIS OTHER GUY" like my wagon did yesterday.

[Force of Nature]

Sorry for the lack of me at the end of the day, but what the hell?

How did SK get randomly lynched! Haha.

I think FoN is scum, but before I vote, I want him to claim.

WHY IS THAT FUNNY TO YOU.

[Force of Nature]

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

I REFUTED YOUR BULLSHIT.
SEVERAL TIMES.
AND YOU AGREED I HAD DONE SO SEVERAL TIMES.
SO WHAT IS THIS "OKAY TIME TO LYNCH FON" SHIT?

[Force of Nature]

PEOPLE I'D LYNCH TODAY:

Force of Nature -- I made a mental note of them being scummy, but they're last on this list because I'm not sure if it's actually being scummy or me just being uberfrustrated with the way the hydra has been confusing people.

Yeah, he never actually complained about our content, and I pointed this out:

Actually you're right, I haven't said anything.

I'm just generally uneasy about your slot due to the confusion from earlier but now that I'm looking at it closer, I see no reason for you to be the lynch for today. I don't like the fact you're sitting on the Soda wagon because like I said, Soda is a VI and a VI wagon just seems like one of those

it's easy, too easy

situations on D1.

UNVOTE:
Need to think later about voting not on his own counterwagon and claiming VT etc.
Probably will meta some.

you scumfuck

I WANT TO REEVALUATE AFTER NEW INFORMATION HAS BEEN REVEALED AND MY WAGONEE ISN'T DOING THE SCUM-THINGS.

Also, FoN's questioning of Pine is downright fucking terrible.

PINE SAID SOME GUY BEING SCUM WOULD MAKE ANOTHER GUY TOWN. ERGO THE TWO NOT SCUM TOGETHER. THEN THE OTHER GUY FLIPPED TOWN. AND PINE THOUGHT THE REMAINDER OF THE PAIR WHO COULDN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER WAS SCUMMY. SO I YELLED BACK AND FORTH WITH PINE FOR AWHILE. THIS WAS A USEFUL THING TO DO.

Also FoN's #750 is just planting the seeds of "oh hey look how easy I can jump to any of the following five wagons today" so he doesn't look scummy in doing so

MUDSLINNNGGGGGG. I WOULD NOT NEED TO LAY ANY SUCH GROUNDWORK GIVEN HOW I PLAY. AND POKING AROUND AT PEOPLE WHILE FIGURING THINGS OUT IS GOOD PLAY ANYWAY.

Dubious:SodaGrimmAlexUphillSkrew

YA DON'T SAY

ALL THE LURKERS PLUS SKREW ARE YOUR SCUMREADS?

HOW FASCINATING
HOW BIZARRE

MY LYNCHPOOL HAPPENED TO INCLUDE MORE LURKERS THAN NON LURKERS. YAY. CONSIDERING THE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SUSPECT LISTS I'VE HAD THIS GAME, KIND OF AN INEVITABLE EVENT.

tl;dr

Though for what it's worth my #1 reason for being on FoN right now is the fact he VEHEMENTLY tried to stay off that triangleScum wagon. And he was still pushing for a Pine lynch, who is obvtown and has been fairly town the entirety of this game.

I proceed to prove this obviously false, which leads to:

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

And now today FOR NO REASON we are back where we started.

Vote: FoN

This shit is happening, might as well make peace with it now.

P. edit: Ah the reason is tinglies? TINGLIES?
I'm there with you on the not enough scummy players thing though.
Pine's town.
Furc actually hasn't done anything town other than claiming miller, and I wouldn't put fakeclaiming miller as scum past him at all.
Especially considering the ORATION he dropped. Also he works great with Reckscum.
Uphill may be scum. He's pushed all the wrong things, but he did it aggressively and looked like he was puzzling.
WaV had good interaction with Triangle
Grimmjow is LURKOMATIC but Triangle did some kind of thing with him early that didn't look bussy.
Yates is sadly town. Though the idea of losing to Yatescum IS ANGRY.
Soda's town.
Reck's scum.
I'm town.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

1v1, let's go bro.

Awesome. Deal struck.

When we flip town, don't let xRECKONERx wriggle out of this, guys.

[Force of Nature]

WHAT HAPPENED IN NEIGHBORLAND LAST NIGHT:
Nacho says hi and offers to relay messages to Pine.
Then he realizes his ability only lasts one night so he can't talk to Pine anymore.
I show up and brain dump some before offering to talk today; I said (paraphrasing to avoid modkill, obv):
* I thought Nacho most likely scum NK target.
* I said I hoped Reck was town and died so I wouldn't have to worry about figuring him out / lynching him.
* I complain about Sleepy quicklynch
* I say Soda's triangle vote because of the fos-yates-sheep-thing is the only towny part of a pretty scummy ISO
* I say I think Pine's town.
* I talk about Reck being scum but hard to lynch and this being why his scum record is like 20 / 5
* I mention Yates seems to follow an 'if you think I'm town your town; if not you're scum' philosophy
* I talk about the degree to which he / Reck have done the lining up lynches thing.
* I say I don't like our chances to win.
* I apologize for spamming.
* I think Reck + WaV are scum. And I am hoping for somebody to get a guilty on Reck.
* Nacho says Reck's scum and no cop is required. And WaV is town because of Kondi / Uphill
* I say I'd have liked to see Grimm's case on Uphill and Kondi counts in WaV's favor (I missed the Nacho post before submitting)
* Nacho says Grimm & Uphill would also make some sense to him. Furc is possible.

But yeah, NO WAY would I as scum have NKed a confirmed neighborizer WHO THOUGHT I WAS TOWN AND WANTED TO LYNCH RECK when there's probably something cop or mason (though if that's the case why haven't we autolynched Furc yet) level out there.
THERE'S KILL WIFOM AND THEN THERE'S OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY.
I kill people who think I'm town sometimes as scum, but I ALWAYS play the optimal move to eliminate potentially deadly PRs.
I was about to cite the fact that I've never failed to use some harmful action on a rival PR each night as scum, then realized if I were scum this game that would still be true. Oh well.

P. edit:
That sounds darn good to me, but I'll read more before officially approving.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

We will be flipping town.

Don't think we don't see the game you're playing here. You plan on this 1:1 to get us lynched first. Since we're not in a position to demand otherwise, we're getting lynched first. Come tomorrow, you say something about being so sure of us being scum since Day 1 that you agreed to a 1:1, and people will start reading you as town because omg it's a 1:1 what kind of silly scum does that, right?

Oh, no.

When I play chicken, I expect to play some fucking chicken. And that means you eat rope after we do.

I'm just waiting for someone to say they're absolutely lynching you after.

[Force of Nature]

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

...

Also he :clearly: thought I was town. I can bring up plenty of examples for that.
I'm not arguing you're scum because of the Nacho kill; I think that kill makes decent sense for most scumteams OTHER than ones including me.

Also Reck, what is this YOU WILL NOT FLIP TOWN NO NO NO business over "tinglies"
I'm on you partially over tinglies, but they aren't enough for DIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIE.

[Force of Nature]

I get flak a lot as town but I almost never actually end up getting lynched. Which sounds a lot like what you just described.
I've been run up but not lynched in Bedtime Stories, Flash Mafia, Mafia.exe, and Dilemma mafia.
Look at my posts about Triangle. Do you REALLY think I went back and forth THAT MANY times on a scumbuddy?

[Force of Nature]

Actually I did get lynched in Bedtime stories the next day. Meh.

Uphill, I meant the Kondi 1v1 thing with you made the slot look town. I actually thought WaV was pretty scummy but Kondi looked townish.

[Force of Nature]

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNHHHHHG

UNVOTE

EVERY FUCKING WAGON FEELS SLIMY

I am totally with you on this sentiment.
Hopefully tonight I'll find a non-slimy one.

[Force of Nature]

I really don't like Yates either, but it makes a really suspicious of triangle when she voted Yates right after Llama FOSed Yates and then unvoted her.

UNVOTE: SK
VOTE: Triangle

Isn't Soda kind of a newbie?
This is a weird post from a newbie.
And after it he's too sure Triangle will flip scum.

[Force of Nature]

I half expect Faraday to post in this thread thinking he's Uphill.
I've been giving Uphill way too much towncred for playstyle as opposed to for doing ANYTHING protown.
He pretty aggressively counterwagoned to protect Triangle D1.
Attacking WaV while FoSing me and Sleepy, then going "FoN made a good case on Sleepy lets vote sleepy"
And then on the next morning IMMEDIATELY coming out and voting me like nothing happened in the meantime and he's suddenly seemingly not interested in WaV anymore.
Then when my wagon fades he hops right onto the next big BW. Where'd the WaV stuff go?? Or the 'scum voted pine' stuff??
And he makes the Implosion / Nacho kills make LOTS of sense.

WHERE IS GRIMMJOW.

Also Reck backing out of 1v1-mode so readily bothered my QTmates somewhat.
Honestly though I'm starting to see some 'this guy will flip town' signs from Reck.
Not that he hasn't totally fooled me before, but eh.

[Force of Nature]

Also I would FIRE FURCOLOW OUT OF AN AIRLOCK if it weren't for the miller thing.
LIKE SERIOUSLY, HIS INTERACTIONS WITH TRIANGLE COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE SCUMMIER HOLY FUCK.

soda called me "terribad scum" for claiming cop d1 when i was vanilla mafia, and we had power role mafia

i am not sure if i support the wagon on triangle yet.

Huh, so he likes to fakeclaim as scum? GOOD TO KNOW.

implosion's #414 attacks 2 people on the triangle wagon of being scum (highly unlikely 2/4 are scum for MS voting trends imo)
inb4 me using imo is a scumtell in his eyes (poking fun that his case on soda, to me, is town thought process)

also, if you look at his motivation in pushing soda (at 3 votes vs. triangle's 4) makes me happy to join the triangle wagon. feels like a weak chainsaw. implosion's scum game > implosion's town game. I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum here.

tl;dr implosion is mudslinging on the triangle wagon, while pushing the soda wagon

Mattman's omgus is voteworthy

vote: mattman

HE LINKS IMPLOTOWN TO TRIANGLE SCUM, CALLS TRIANGLE WAGON GOOD, AND VOTES MATTMAN

considering triangle defended my elipses which was a softclaim of my spite of my role of miller, i will go with pine if those are the only feasible options

however, i do not want to be hasty, FoN

ALL OF A SUDDEN HE THINKS PINE IS A BETTER VOTE THAN TRIANGLE WUTWUTWUTWUT.

Yo, Implosion, remember when reck said:

Reck might be scum.

Oh, that's right, you died and flipped town doctor
and I made a case on you
and triangle said using elipses is something that didn't make me scum
would scum do that to their buddy d1?
no siree bob

BACKWOODS. COUSINFUCK.
HE SAYS HIS BUDDY WOULDN'T DEFEND HIM EARLY D1 AND HE WOULDN'T KILL IMPLOSION BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IMPLOSION WAS SCUM.
I <3 WIFOM BUT THIS IS FOUL. HIS UPHILL BUDDY PROBABLY KILLED IMPLOSION. AND WHY WIFOM DEFEND YOURSELF OUT OF THE BLUE IF NOBODY'S VOTING YOU.

ONTO TRIANGLE:

I don't really see how Fur's use of ellipses was suspicious, particularly since he hasn't posted anything else to suggest scumminess. Besides, I would imagine most scum would prefer to not stand out and thus not put three dots in their confirm post.

WHEE DEFEND BUDDY

Except what you implied regarding your thoughts about Furcolow wasn't as strong as he was saying.

Reck: To me, Grimm sounded more certain that Pine was town than you were of Furcolow being scum. I was also not entirely sure how serious you were being about attacking him over ellipses and decided you were being half-serious, half-not, whereas Grimm sounded entirely serious.

Pine is leaning towards town when I judge from posts alone, although I don't like the way Grimm is declaring so strongly that Pine's definitely town.

Reckoner: Neither you nor FoN said Furcolow is definitely 100% scum, and even though your reasoning for accusing him was, in my opinion, weak, you still gave reasoning to support what you were saying.

HEHEHAHAHA TRIANGLE IS NOT EXCITED AT ALL TO ENGAGE WITH THE FURC WAGON EVEN THOUGH IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO GRIMM.
AND JUST THE WAY TRIANGLE TALKS ABOUT FURC THERE...

SOMEBODY CONVINCE ME THAT MILLER CLAIM COULD BE FAKE PLEASE.

[Force of Nature]

I'm not voting tonight because I make terrible decisions at 4AM.
But hopefully I just provided enough food for some people to stop lurking and start arguing.

[Force of Nature]

Oh also Triangle supposedly deeply considered the seriousness of the Furc wagon. INTERESTING.

[Force of Nature]

He does like claiming though.

Furc, do you think faking a miller claim as mafia is within your mafia-abilities?

[Force of Nature]

You seem rather alty.

[Force of Nature]

There's lurking and then there's LUUUUURRRKKKINNGGGG
Reck, do you still think Grimm's town?
He did vote Triangle, but it wasn't a super awesome townlinkmode vote.

Bah I forgot that Triangle voted him early too. Triangle didn't really follow up that vote, but it's a little bit hard to believe doublebus.

It's more of a confluence of events. As I said when I tried to get a read on Reck with my "you first" post, I'm NOT sold on FoN = Town. However, given how certain I was that FoN and SKrew were both scum and seeing SKrew flip Town gave me enough reason to rethink my initial snap judgement. This is especially in light of how quickly I dropped the hammer [I was 99% sure!]. I still have a lot of questions about FoN [hence the "pains me" part], but I need some time to reprocess the last day's events.

My unvote is less a vote of confidence in FoN and more of a tool to buy myself more time in case of a flash lynch. I just don't want to be a part of one I'm not 100% sure on.

If Sleepy's town flip was the reason you decided to rethink your "snap judgment" on Force, then why was the first thing you did today jumping on the Force insta-wagon?

This doesn't add up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Yates

This is actually a pretty decent point.

[Force of Nature]

All right folks, you've now successfully drawn ME into the game.

Time for some fun.

Anyone considering Yates or Soda to be scum needs to back down now, or you die.

Anyone calling PINE scum, same thing.

Leading suspects for scum are Grimmjow, Reckoner, Uphill, Furc and MAYBE MAYBE MAYYYYYYYYBE Alex, but only if the other 4 don't eliminate all the scum.

Here's the deal.

Uphill: Post 852, followed by post 869 is the equivalent of a scum claim for me. Can you explain your thought process here?

Grimmjow: You've been lurking like a motherfucker, and FURTHER MORE, you've been making posts with very little to back them up.

Why was our case on Reck Day 1 "the weakest thing you've seen since a newbie game"? You never explained what made it so poor, nor did you elaborate on what you felt was wrong in it. PLease do so now.

Further, I want a full extensive case on Uphill. In your next post. Or you die. Kapishe? :3

Reckoner: I actually have a few questions for you, before I tell you what I'm thinking right now.

1) What is your opinion of Grimm?
2) What is your opinion of Uphill?
3) What is your opinion of Furc?
4) Why did you vote SK on Day 2?

Furc: Can you explain your random wagon hopping this game? You've frequently jumped on wagons without so much as a sentence to explain yourself.

[Force of Nature]

EBWOP:

- Lady Lambdadelta

[Force of Nature]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3575534

Never mind, this is Alex-town.

He's put on the "Very Townie" list.

[Force of Nature]

EBWOP:

DAMMIT. Forgot to sign again.

-LLD

[Force of Nature]

Hey LLD! You've got some interesting things to say, but you can take your Town-read on Yates and kindly fuck off with it.

Soda I'm trending apathetic on, and starting to like Uphill more and more as Yates's buddy. So sure, I'll go along with you on that.

Sweetie, I know you're town and all, but you should really leave the scumhunting to the adults.

Voting Uphill and/or Grimmjow here is a good move.

Reck, the sooner you answer my questions, the sooner I can move my vote from you.

[Force of Nature]

-LLD

[Force of Nature]

We're not Flashwagoning anything until Reck gets in here and answers my questions.

Also, can you stop being a useless lump for 2 seconds and give me a legit answer to the question of why the hell Yates!scum would be the first vote on the Triangle!scum lynch wagon?

1 newbie with Goon as his tittle busing another Newbie with Goon as his title is, um... how do I say this? HIGHLY unlikely.

[Force of Nature]

Uphill: Post 852, followed by post 869 is the equivalent of a scum claim for me. Can you explain your thought process here?

Nacho accused me of shit, and I explained said shit? That's really all there is to those posts,

other than the Force vote, which I'm not going to explain at this time.

And that's why he's scum folks.