Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Uphill]

Hi guys, I replaced Per. I would lynch any of the following today:

Grimmjow: I feel like he's fluffing his way through this game. He didn't even attack anyone until 326, which is weird for someone who's spent so much of his time deriding everyone else for posting fluff.

implosion: His vote is on Soda, but he has not posed any questions to Soda, posted a case on Soda, tried to convince anyone else to vote Soda, asked anyone else's opinions on Soda, or done anything at all that concerns Soda in any way. And all of this has been true since post 68. And he's been here the whole time, talking about any other shit he can find.

He's just completely fucking ignoring the guy he's voting.

No way in hell does town EVER do that.

kondi2424: I demand you to state who is scum in your next post. If you do not, I

will

kill you.

Mattman: Same goes for you.

xRECKONERx: I definitely don't like the way he's protecting scummy-as-shit Implosion, and the fact that he's left Soda off both of his lists when Soda has been like the biggest focal point of this whole game is also incredibly suspicious.

Force, Furc, Pine, Sleepy, Soda, Triangle, and Yates are all town.

Everyone needs to stop voting whatever dumb townwagon they're on and do this:

VOTE: implosion

[Uphill]

Specifically he had no read on me until he found out who I was, and that information helped him figure out I was town. That is town thought process.

What exactly do you expect scum implosion to do? Just make an arbitrary decision about your alignment and not fake a reason for having that opinion?

And he's transparent (you can see the town thought process as he just posts what he's thinking) in his other posting too.

Transparent my ass. How can he be transparent when he hasn't said one word about the guy he's voting in forever? That's the complete fucking opposite of transparent!

Force, Furc, Pine, Sleepy, Soda, Triangle, and Yates are all town.

yeah no

you have LITERALLY NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE TWO BIGGEST WAGONS other than they're all town?

Dear god you're useless

Or maybe I wanted to focus on my scumreads in my

only post so far

? Take a chill pill, fuckface. I'm getting to my town reads.

By the way, since you're calling me out about not having anything to say about Soda, let's take a look at

everything

you've written about him this game:

Soda i love you now

This Soda wagon is still terrible

NOT GONNA LYNCH:

Soda

Wow, real great job there champ. And you don't even have the excuse of just replacing in. Who's useless now?

Also, Uphill, in his #347, is threatening to bus kondi/mattman imo
I expect 2 of them to be scum AT LEAST, with 1 or 2 of the lurkers scum, and uphill as the 3rd

That's ridiculous. Why would I threaten to bus kondi or mattman? They're lurking AND getting away with it, why the shit wouldn't I just let them continue to get away with it?

[Uphill]

My read on Soda:

How? I don't really see the Furco argument as logical, and my RVS wasn't either, so I thought we were still in RVS.

eb4p: cool I'm getting jumped and I just started. Life is GREAT!

Well? Most 'keyword most' of the people haven't posted enough info to gather much info. The only things eventful that happened were Furcowgon, Grimmjow saying he would quit if Pine was scum, and now this wagon. None of the former 2 were scum-tells.

These are genuine responses to mistaken pressure. Soda explains why he thought the RVS was still ongoing and why he's not voting without any hint of nervousness, despite getting ganged up on here. I doubt he could be this calm and transparent with this much sudden pressure as scum.

[Uphill]

My read on Triangle:

Reckoner: Neither you nor FoN said Furcolow is definitely 100% scum, and even though your reasoning for accusing him was, in my opinion, weak, you still gave reasoning to support what you were saying.

Except what you implied regarding your thoughts about Furcolow wasn't as strong as he was saying.

Reck: To me, Grimm sounded more certain that Pine was town than you were of Furcolow being scum. I was also not entirely sure how serious you were being about attacking him over ellipses and decided you were being half-serious, half-not, whereas Grimm sounded entirely serious.

Same as above. Genuine response, no hint of nervousness, calm and transparent, yadda yadda yadda.

[Uphill]

What exactly do you expect scum implosion to do? Just make an arbitrary decision about your alignment and not fake a reason for having that opinion?

You mean like i did for soda?

VOTE: implosion

Also, calm down. This is a

pretend

knife fight.

No reason it has to be a

boring

pretend knife fight.

also, are you an alt, and if not, how much experience do you have?

enough to know that you're scum

[Uphill]

I'm not an expert at this game, but just because Soda acted calm when you called him out means he can't be mafia?

That's not what I said. If my point was simply "he's calm therefore he's town" I would have just said that so that I wouldn't have had to type a whole 49 word post. Read the whole thing and try again.

Also, I wasn't fucking around when I said this:

kondi2424: I demand you to state who is scum in your next post. If you do not, I will kill you.

Mattman: Same goes for you.

and to prove my non-fucking-aroundness:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mattman

that vote is absolutely not going away, for any reason at all, apart from

1. you

play the fucking game already

or
2. you get replaced.

Take your pick.

preview edit: oh my god. kondi, mattman, why do you even sign up for this shit if you're just going to sit around with your thumb up your ass? you can do that by yourself and not waste a slot. could you two please ask the mod to be replaced so as to quit wasting slots? i'd really appreciate it.

[Uphill]

In fact, from here on out I will not be calling either of you by your usernames. Mattman, you are Waste of Slot 1, and Kondi, you are Waste of Slot 2.

Do you two like your new names, Waste of Slot 1 and Waste of Slot 2? I hope you do!

[Uphill]

This seems like quite an overreaction to a question. This screams of scum.

The "overreaction" wasn't to your question, that was to your lack of play. You'll note the only thing I said to your question was basically "no, read it again".

Making definitive reads = playing the game already?

Like seriously, who the fuck are you to be making demands at this juncture?

Making ANY reads = playing the game already.

Uhhh, I posted all my reads - on every single player - right in my very first post, so I'm fully qualified to be making demands from Mattman and Waste of Slot 2 regarding their reads. Nice try though.

I'm just trying to think of why you would want to discredit me so much unless I'm on the right track?

How about because you're on the wrong track?

Uphill, I didn't see your demand, and would have happily answered it if you had simply pointed out that I missed it. However, since you seem to have some kind of mental problem, I'll kindly invite you to kiss my ass.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kondi2424

since at least mattman is doing something now, whereas you are still a waste of a slot

[Uphill]

Uhhhh, I

did

drop it. I changed votes, I stopped insulting you, and I even said "at least mattman is doing something now". I don't see how it's possible for it to be any more dropped.

[Uphill]

I'm fine with a 1v1 with Uphill. Any takers?

But you're voting sleepy

@implosion: Uphill isn't getting anywhere with his tunneling on Mattman and I instead of actually scumhunting, and apparently I'm a waste of a slot as well, so I think it would do good.

1) I did get somewhere with Mattman.

2) My votes on you and Mattman are "actually scumhunting", because you both can be scum, and the votes are culling information useful for determining whether or not this is indeed the case

3) How the fuck am I tunneling? I've been in this game not even 48 hours, and have voted three different people. That's like, anti-tunneling.

Also, Uphill is pissing me off.

Good.

[Uphill]

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

I have a crystal-clear idea of what the scumteam is. Soda-SK-Triangle. I am willing to lynch any of the three of them, and have maintained that for a long time now.

Wait... If you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam being Soda, Sleepy, and Triangle, then why wouldn't you have any reason to think implosion is town? Wouldn't that make him town by default? What in the hay-ell is your motive for trying to keep implosion from looking town when you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam that doesn't include him?

I think I was hasty reading Pine as town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pine

[Uphill]

Llamarble, why is triangle scum?
Care to reveal your kittens?

I don't speak Spanish.

[Uphill]

Didn't SK just bitch at me like two pages ago for lurkerhunting

I looked all the way back to page 20 and didn't see this anywhere

quote it or I lynch you for lying

[Uphill]

I agree that the scum probably weren't bussing Triangle when the Pine lynch was so very, very plausible. I'd rather lynch someone who was on the Pine wagon yesterday than Soda or Pine. I'd be okay with lynching Sleepy or Force but actually I think wierdalex is the scummiest. I say that cause of this:

OH MY GOD PINE'S SCUM. Basically, what Uphill said.

Here he screams in all caps that Pine is scum, but for all his apparent certainty this is all he ever says about Pine. I would think someone this certain about one of the wagons would be trying a lot harder to get that one lynched, rather than just waiting and letting the other one happen. Speaking of Triangle, weirdalex says that Reck really stretched his point about Triangle early on, which wouldn't be that bad except that it is the only thing he

ever

says about Triangle. Triangle had focus on her for basically the entire day, I don't see a good reason for alex to not state a read on her, and the Reck-stretching-his-point thing seems like a passive defense that still lets him fence-sit.

VOTE: wierdalexv

Vote: Uphill

Comes into the game, makes an aggressive attack against implosion for "completely ignoring the guy he's voting". Gives half-assed reads on a few other people, backs down after a quick exchange with implosion. Goes on a short lurker hunt without pursuing anyone else, then finally, near deadline, makes a left-field vote on pine without much of a reason, disappears. Has an absolute minimal interaction with Triangle who was the LYNCH OF THE DAY, which is made especially weird considering the lurker hunt he was making earlier. He never really explains the reason why he unvotes implosion, and the switch from kondi to Pine is pretty damn opportunistic, as shown by the fact that there's nothing leading up to it and no follow up AT ALL.

Even after I switched my Pine read, he still wasn't very high up on my scumlist, he was definitely behind implosion, reck, and kondi/alex. None of my scummier reads were happening though and the deadline was coming down, so I'm really not sure what else you'd expect me to do there.

I don't know why you say I had minimal interaction with Triangle, I clearly stated I had a town read on her and I explained why I read her town, that seems like anything but minimal to me. I honestly didn't notice she was lurking until you pointed it out just now, but it wouldn't have mattered anyways because I had a town read on her and I'm certainly not going to pursue a lurker lynch on a town read. (like say, furc)

I unvoted implosion cause I was honestly pissed off about mattman and kondi lurking, and by the time I was over that it was really too late to try to get an implosion wagon going, especially with my first attempt giving me an idea of how successful I would be.

[Uphill]

Um, you never followed up on any of those reads when you stopped voting them, how was I supposed to know he was on your scumlist? How was ANYONE supposed to know?

Because I said they were all in my scumlist in my very first post, and then never moved them?

Your ISO #10 didn't even imply why you were deciding to change votes. It was far more of a "hey, this is a scumslip, lynch now" kind of post.

I'll concede I should have been more clear that it was a deadline vote, but how are you concluding that I said "hey, this is a scumslip, lynch now" on Pine? I specifically said that I thought I might have been hasty in calling him town, why are you making it out to be more aggressive than that?

If this was a deadline compromise kind of post, you should have mentioned that you were voting Pine over triangle for X reason, and that you still thought implosion, reck, and alex were all scummy.

And become king of fluff posting? No thank you. I'd already made it clear what I thought on all these things. I'm not going to repeat myself into oblivion.

This is what you said about triangle:

My read on Triangle:

Reckoner: Neither you nor FoN said Furcolow is definitely 100% scum, and even though your reasoning for accusing him was, in my opinion, weak, you still gave reasoning to support what you were saying.

Except what you implied regarding your thoughts about Furcolow wasn't as strong as he was saying.

Reck: To me, Grimm sounded more certain that Pine was town than you were of Furcolow being scum. I was also not entirely sure how serious you were being about attacking him over ellipses and decided you were being half-serious, half-not, whereas Grimm sounded entirely serious.

Same as above. Genuine response, no hint of nervousness, calm and transparent, yadda yadda yadda.

You gave reasons for Soda being town, then posted a bunch of Triangle quotes that don't mean shit on their own and said "she's town too". You never mentioned her again. This is the definition of "minimal".

Uh, no, I definitely did not just say "she's town too", I said the reasons I read her as town were the same as the reasons I read Soda as town, those are completely different. I still don't see what more I could have done.

I'm assuming that implosion did scummy things after you switched votes. Why didn't you comment on them?

Why would you assume that? My case on implosion at the end of the day was the same as when I replaced in.

[Uphill]

See, reads are supposed to evolve when you play this game. You should be making an effort to see if your reads are correct or not. You should NOT make a scumlist in your first post and then ignore all of your townreads from then on and tunnel through your scumlist. Surely you realize that one reads post is not good enough?

You mean like how I said Pine was town and then later went back on it? Or like how I started out today by doing a total 180 on half the players?

I didn't ignore Triangle, I just never found anything new on her.

Following up on your scumreads is not fluff.

Constantly saying that I still think the same as the last time I posted is, though.

You don't see what more you could have done? Maybe given actual reasons? Maybe paid attention to her instead of just filing her into the town-category?

I did both those things.

I figured you'd be able to come up with more than what you posted initially, considering you had a hell of a lot more pages to work with. And you wouldn't want to be King of Fluff by just posting the same thing over and over again, right?

None of what had happened in the meantime swayed me either way regarding implosion.

[Uphill]

Your 180s at the beginning of the day don't have any reasons. Your Pine town read had one reason. What I'm looking for is a thought process; reasons behind the change. You have none. All you're doing is changing your opinions on players whenever the hell you feel like it; and, coincidentally enough, these 180s are all on easy lynches. If you had a thought process behind it, it wouldn't look so terrible, but... you don't.

They do have reasons. Those reasons are because I don't think scum would have kept pushing Triangle if just one of them could have flipped over to Pine to spare Triangle, and I'm I definitely said this at the beginning of the day:

I agree that the scum probably weren't bussing Triangle when the Pine lynch was so very, very plausible.

How the hell is that not a thought process?

I did both those things.

How can you say something like this? Especially when YOU YOURSELF said you weren't?

Uhhhh.... I didn't say that? Please, quote me saying either that I ignored Triangle or that I had no reasons for finding Triangle town, because then I'd be a proven liar.

None of what had happened in the meantime swayed me either way regarding implosion.

So you didn't find ANYTHING that implosion posted scummy or townie. Nothing at all.
You also didn't find ANYTHING that anyone posted scummy or townie either, except for Pine's "crystal clear" post.
And somehow every single other person playing either A) found something scummy/townie in someone past their initial scum reads, or B) were smart enough to pretend that they did. Are you telling me that you just form opinions at the beginning of each day that can only change after the night.

No I didn't just form opinions at the beginning of the day, I wasn't even in the game at the beginning of the day. I imagine I'd have changed my opinions a lot more yesterday if I'd been here from the start. In any event, tunnelling isn't my strategy or anything, it's just how things turned out D1.

And Force makes a very good case on Sleepy. I'm in.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Uphill]

I tried to get this in after the hammer yesterday, but wasn't fast enough:

How the hell is it a thought process? You said that scum probably weren't bussing triangle because the Pine lynch was so plausible, yes. But you only gave one specific reason for alex, who you voted yesterday. You did not give a single specific reason for ANY of the people you 180'd on. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Nothing at all.

It's simple PoE, if scum wasn't bussing Triangle, then FMPOV they must be among Alex, Sleepy, Force or Furc. I don't see why it matters that this reasoning isn't specific, it's still reasoning.

Uhhhh.... I didn't say that? Please, quote me saying either that I ignored Triangle or that I had no reasons for finding Triangle town, because then I'd be a proven liar.

I honestly didn't notice she was lurking until you pointed it out just now

How do you not notice that someone is lurking unless you are ignoring them? If you're paying attention to them, then you should notice at least how active they're being.

I just... don't, I guess? Triangle wasn't obviously lurking in the same way Mattman or Kondi were where there was literally nothing to go on, so it never occurred to me that she was lurking. In any event, not noticing she was lurking is hardly the same thing as completely ignoring her.

Okay, fair enough on this. But the main problem with your reads is that when they do change, they change without a thought process. For example, look at my FoN read. I came into the game a bit unsure, so applied pressure, made demands, threaten to vote. Then, after a little while of exchange, that evolved to a town read. You did this with your Mattman vote, but it's the only time when I can trace your thought processes at all. This needs to change, or I won't be able to see myself voting anywhere else for the rest of the game until scum kill me.

I don't agree that they change with a thought process.

My D1 switch on Pine was due to his arguing with town-reads on Implosion when he thought the scum was elsewhere
My switch on you and Reck and re-switch on Pine was because I don't think scum was bussing Triangle
My switch on Force, Sleepy and Furc was because there must be scum among at least one of them if scum wasn't bussing Triangle

Force lynch? Force lynch.

VOTE: Force of Nature

[Uphill]

WaV had good interaction with Triangle

quote this good interaction and I will take my vote off you right now and put it on myself, lick a port-o-potty clean, and shoot heroin in front of a cop

because it doesn't exist, scumbag

[Uphill]

Final Vote Count of Day One

Pine (5):

SleepyKrew, Uphill, Furcolow, Weirdalexv, Force of Nature.

These are my primary suspects. This is where you go to find your mafia scum.

I had a bad vibe on SKrew, initially [and, indeed, he may still be scum] but my vote is going with Force of Nature.

Vote: Force of Nature

FoN is doing a really bad job of trying to obfuscate obvious Town voting. At this point his antics have moved from being mildly irritating to flat out forum fecal discharge. There is no value in having him continue on for another day.

It will take an act of both Congress and God [or a clean investigation report] to move me off this vote.

Unvote

because:

Stop the lynch on FoN

He's not lying about being Neighborized. I have no message in the Neighborhood, and Nacho never actually talked in it last night, but I recommended to Nacho that he Neighborize FoN and FoN knew that I was the other Neighbor. Nacho and I both believe he's Town.

And it PAINS me to do it. I was POSITIVE FoN and SKrew were scum. I totally screwed the pooch by hammering SKrew so fast but, like I said, I would have bet anything he was scum. That didn't turn out so well so I need to go back and reevaluate the conversations from the previous day before deciding what to do.

What? Nacho neighborizing Force is not a clean investigation report, and certainly not an act of both Congress and God. Why exactly does confirmation of Force being neighborized cause you to unvote?

[Uphill]

It's more of a confluence of events. As I said when I tried to get a read on Reck with my "you first" post, I'm NOT sold on FoN = Town. However, given how certain I was that FoN and SKrew were both scum and seeing SKrew flip Town gave me enough reason to rethink my initial snap judgement. This is especially in light of how quickly I dropped the hammer [I was 99% sure!]. I still have a lot of questions about FoN [hence the "pains me" part], but I need some time to reprocess the last day's events.

My unvote is less a vote of confidence in FoN and more of a tool to buy myself more time in case of a flash lynch. I just don't want to be a part of one I'm not 100% sure on.

If Sleepy's town flip was the reason you decided to rethink your "snap judgment" on Force, then why was the first thing you did today jumping on the Force insta-wagon?

This doesn't add up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Yates

[Uphill]

@Pine - I was able to get a read off of Reck as a result of his response to my question. I am confident that I'm not the only one that found the response useful. Your inability to understand the significance of his response does not lessen the value of my post. You are a failure.

@Uphill - Your failure to follow simple logic or to understand contextual reading comprehension is what "doesn't add up." I will break up my thought process into bullet points so you can wrap your simple mind around it:

That logic is 100% firm. Your failure to understand this simple thought process has me inclined to beleive you are either a. of below average intelligence [and thus nearly useless in terms of testimony] or b. possibly scum trying to pretend there is smoke where there is none.

So which is it? Are you

stupid

or are you

scum?

YOUR SCUMRAGE ONLY MAKES MY VOTE HARDER

[Uphill]

What's your defense for when I flip Town, Uphill? Start working on it now.

don't have one, won't need one

[Uphill]

I half expect Faraday to post in this thread thinking he's Uphill.
I've been giving Uphill way too much towncred for playstyle as opposed to for doing ANYTHING protown.
He pretty aggressively counterwagoned to protect Triangle D1.
Attacking WaV while FoSing me and Sleepy, then going "FoN made a good case on Sleepy lets vote sleepy"
And then on the next morning IMMEDIATELY coming out and voting me like nothing happened in the meantime and he's suddenly seemingly not interested in WaV anymore.
Then when my wagon fades he hops right onto the next big BW. Where'd the WaV stuff go?? Or the 'scum voted pine' stuff??
And he makes the Implosion / Nacho kills make LOTS of sense.

I don't understand the Faraday reference.
I don't see how my D1 push on Pine was aggressive. I posted what I thought might have been a scum mistake from Pine and said I wasn't so sure he was town and voted him, and that was really it.
Alex was my strongest scum read at the start of D2, but has not been at any point since I shifted to Sleepy.
Yates has proven my scum-not-bussing theory wrong by reacting to a vote with a ricockulously over-the-top shitfit.

[Uphill]

Dear Pine, Uphill, & Furc,

Would you please explain to the Town why you think I voted for scum early on Day 1 and stayed on scum throughout if I am scum?
- Here's a hint: it was too early in the game for a bus so I wouldn't.
- Here's a free 2nd hint: it would have been too easy for me to jump on the Pine wagon and tip the lynch towards him thus saving my scum buddy if I were actual scum.

Would you please also explain to the town why I would target the one person who I felt I had "convinced" I was Town if I were scum?
- Linky: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3562385
- Here's a hint: if I were actual scum, the LAST people I would lynch would be people that are championing Yates as Town.

The answers to these questions will prove very useful to the Town should I end up lynched or dead. Logic. It's the enemy of scum.

Thank you for your consideration.

Hell if I know, and hell if I care. Your scum play today FAR outweighs any town cred you got from being on the Triangle lynch, and that's all that matters to me.

[Uphill]

Uphill: Post 852, followed by post 869 is the equivalent of a scum claim for me. Can you explain your thought process here?

Nacho accused me of shit, and I explained said shit? That's really all there is to those posts, other than the Force vote, which I'm not going to explain at this time.

[Uphill]

Dear Pine, Uphill, and Furc,

Quite a bit of time has passed and I still don't have an answer to the two VERY simple questions asked here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3580781

If you are Town and can't come up with a valid reason, perhaps you should reconsider your vote. If you are scum and can not provide a valid reason, it's because there isn't one. Double bus on Day 1 with no pressure makes zero sense in any world.

"Double bus"? NOPE. Triangle jumped off her vote on you less than 48 hours after she got on, so she clearly wasn't planning to bus you.
"with no pressure"? NOPE. Reck and Soda were already voting Triangle when you did.

I don't see any reason why you bussing is implausible. Vote stands.

[Uphill]

Reckoner: I actually have a few questions for you, before I tell you what I'm thinking right now.

1) What is your opinion of Grimm?
2) What is your opinion of Uphill?
3) What is your opinion of Furc?
4) Why did you vote SK on Day 2?

[Uphill]

After taking a step back, I think I've overestimated the value of the scummy reaction of Yates. It's still there, but I don't think I should be counting it over his D1 play. In any event, it's pretty clear at this point where the wagons for the day are going and my vote on Yates won't do any good in that context anyways, so

UNVOTE:
VOTE: wierdalexv

The points I made against him the beginning of D2 are still there, and the

one post he's made since

doesn't do anything to change my mind.

Refreshing everyone's memory:

OH MY GOD PINE'S SCUM. Basically, what Uphill said.

Here he screams in all caps that Pine is scum, but for all his apparent certainty this is all he ever says about Pine. I would think someone this certain about one of the wagons would be trying a lot harder to get that one lynched, rather than just waiting and letting the other one happen. Speaking of Triangle, weirdalex says that Reck really stretched his point about Triangle early on, which wouldn't be that bad except that it is the only thing he

ever

says about Triangle. Triangle had focus on her for basically the entire day, I don't see a good reason for alex to not state a read on her, and the Reck-stretching-his-point thing seems like a passive defense that still lets him fence-sit.

[Uphill]

Vote: Uphill

Sheeping for fun and profit. Okay, so Pine and FoN are obv. town, I'm obv. town now and just proved it.

C
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[Uphill]

@Uphill - yeah, that's *so* scummy of me, how foolish...::crickets::...

If you can explain how sheeping Pine/Force makes you obv town I'll move my vote to myself right now, how's that for crickets?

@Reck - I feel a lot of crazy newb energy here - how come your head is still attached?
Also - your case on me is weaksauce and you know it, you should vote Uphill because he doesn't know what a scumtell is.

I do too know what a scumtell is. I saw one flying out my window just now. Its wings were sooooooooooo pretty!

Even if I somehow played mafia without knowing what a scumtell is, (which is like playing baseball without knowing what a base is,) how would that make me anything other than an idiot playing in the wrong queue, if not the wrong game? It wouldn't. You're just latching on to the only plausible alternative to your own lynch here.

[Uphill]

If you can explain how sheeping Pine/Force makes you obv town I'll move my vote to myself right now, how's that for crickets?

This is you deciding that I meant sheeping Pine made me obv. town - as opposed to noticing earlier in the post where I dissected a case on me and showed how that made me obv. town and then referenced it again. Reading is also a pro town action I have been told, and at least reading comprehension is a bonus if you want to avoid the bulk of the reading.

I assume you mean this:

kondi was a top scumspect for me, then he replaced out. Then alex became a top suspect, and he replaced out.

Yeah, but *why*?
Also, you mentioned replaced out twice - you and I both know the substantive quality of THAT as a scumtell. That's a real life tell - why are you even bringing that up? You case should have been "had a scum feel on your predecessors" fuggin period. But "Ooooh, ::effeminate hand wave:: scummy feel *AND* they replaced out...because...town don't do that...fact!"

Seriously now. This is a lurk/flake out case isn't it?
On Day 3.
As a counter wagon...

Whassup Reck?

The Uphill wagon preceded the wagon on you/Alex, actually. You are the counterwagon.

Whassup Reck?

I'll give you 3 good reasons:

Huzzah!

1. Random lynch vote.
Why this is scummy: SleepyKrew flipped Town. There was a wagon on SKrew later, but that wagon didn't start until odd behavior until later on in day 2. A good wagon on Triangle-Scum had been started and he distanced himself.

So, voting someone...who has no wagon on them...and not providing reasons...and avoiding active big wagons and sheeping others...is scummy?
Whut?

::Actually looks at post::

And it was in the RVS stage so...wtflolomgbbq? Are you actually presenting this as part of a case? Get thee to a Newbie good sir
Has Reck yelled at you much this game? (<--serious question)

2. Opportunity to hammer scum but "I'll hammer Triangle after school today."
Why this is scummy: Triangle flipped scum. If he knew he was going to vote for Triangle anyway, why didn't he just do it? The fact that Triangle later flipped scum casts suspicion on this action because it now looks like a rookie scum play of "oh I meant to vote for that person but ran out of time" when you actually know that your scum partner is about to be lynched.

Oddly enough, that looks like a TOWNtell to me. When you're going to hammer your buddy you bloody well want to look like town if you're doing it. So you make a case and try to make it seem like you're part of the wagon - you don't do 'lol, deadline enforced hammer' on a scumbuddy you're going to bus. Weak associative for the rest 'he was going to let deadline hit...' seriously? That's you taking his action, assigning a scum intent, and then justifying it. You didn't look at the action and discern a scum intent inherently. Bogus tell.

Though Pine is fairly likely town, that's a good win to know.

3. Jumped on the wrong wagon.
Why this is scummy: everyone can make a mistake HOWEVER, when there is a 50/50 wagon going and 1 flips scum? That looks bad for anyone on the counter wagon as, presumably, scum wouldn't want to lynch their own scum buddy.

That doesn't explain why out of all those names you picked this one - this one was even clearly willing to switch to the other wagon showing a general indifference of opinion between the two, again, a town tell. Why have you ruled out the rest of the counter wagon? Are they all obv. town and I've missed it?

To be fair, now that I've written this out, I'm a

little

less sold on konid/weirdalex/Thor scum but points 2 + 3 are REALLY damning.

@Pine - who are you voting right now? I'm interested in sheeping you.
Also, what's your read on Yates, is he just over anxious newb town, or is this a sloppy scum push?

First of all, that's not even on the same

page

as when you said you'd "just proved" yourself obvtown, much less the same post. I'm kickin' yo ASSSSSSSSSSS in reading comprehension!

But despite the page difference, I nevertheless might have made the connection between "I'm obv. town now and just proved it" and that post if it, y'know, came even remotely close to proving you were obvious town. It didn't. It only contended with Yates's case on you, and it didn't even do a good job at that. But even if it had absolved you of

all

of kondi and alex's play, that'd just put you back to a square one null read. Not to obvious town.

Regardless of which post you were talking about, the point is still the same. You're misrepresenting yourself as obvious town when you're being wagoned. If it was that obvious you were town, you wouldn't be a primary lynch candidate! The fact that you specifically chose the words "proved" and "obv. town" to describe yourself

when you're at L-2

comes off like you're trying to jedi mind trick everyone into looking somewhere else.

Lack of a sense of humor - another glaring scumtell.

A glaring scumtell? OMG, those are my favorite kind! I just adore the way they flock together and warble at this time of year, isn't it just precious? I even hung a glaring scumtell feather on my front awning to remind me of the beauty of nature.

If you want to vote Reck I'd be willing to sheep you on that one - I'm a pretty equal opportunity sheeper. Heck, then I wouldn't even be voting my counter wagon - which is definitely scummy, after all you're not...voting...your own counter wagon...and calling...me...scummy for doing...

What's your scum case on me?

You're voting me, but you'd be willing to sheep me?

I never said voting for your counterwagon is scummy. Here's exactly what I said:

You're just latching on to the only plausible alternative to your own lynch here.

And what that means is that I believe you're only voting me to save your own ass, not because you believe I'm scum. The same is absolutely not true of me. I have voted your slot every day, and I presented a case against alex first thing D2 when nobody else was looking at him hard.

@Uphill - I looked up your case on weird-previous-me. Woosh, it's silly. I wasn't pressuring Pine enough? The silly slot barely posted, and easily half of the content posts are vague digs at Pine in some manner or other - 75% of the posts are 'lol, reading up' so...yeah...I was pressuring Pine as functionally as I was pressuring anyone - dramatically more so actually. The crime is, I should have been pressuring my top scum read *more* when there is LITERALLY NO OTHER SLOT THAT I PRESSURED MORE?

You can try to make this about the quantity of alex's pressure on Pine

relative to his pressure on anyone else

all you want, but the fact of the matter is that his ONLY attack on Pine, AT ALL, EVER, is this:

OH MY GOD PINE'S SCUM. Basically, what Uphill said.

VOTE: Pine, semi-contradiction.

That is piss-poor pressure, and the fact that his pressure on everyone else was even pissier and poorier certainly does not make him any townier.

Moar Uphill votes pl0x!

Seriously, people. Look at that quote. Then look at this one:

If you want to vote Reck I'd be willing to sheep you on that one

Then vote Thor. Then vote Thor some more.

[Uphill]

First of all, that's not even on the same

page

as when you said you'd "just proved" yourself obvtown, much less the same post. I'm kickin' yo SMURFSSSSSSSSSS in reading comprehension!

And yet you didn't notice the two posts came within a half an hour of each other - almost as though I was having an active conversation and probably had stuff very fresh in my mind.
Timestamps - they matter.

Okay, you got me there. I indeed didn't notice the time stamps.

If it was that obvious you were town, you wouldn't be a primary lynch candidate! The fact that you specifically chose the words "proved" and "obv. town" to describe yourself

when you're at L-2

comes off like you're trying to jedi mind trick everyone into looking somewhere else.

Well, actually I specifically pointed out two different town tells in a case supposedly about showing me as scum - the third tell I noted was him calling me scum for making an RVS vote...seriously now, the case doesn't exist and I showed two town tells - that makes it a town case. The fact that no one else said anything means two additional things;

1. There probably isn't any more of a case on me - thus I only have town tells on me.
2. Reck is probably scum, because he shouldn't have allowed that level of derpy to exists as a case he supported.

There isn't any more of a case on you? What, have I been posting chopped liver here?

Even if your points about Alex were town tells (and I don't agree, I don't have any problem seeing scumAlex voting Pine while staying indifferent to Triangle, nor seeing scumAlex threatening to hammer Triangle but not actually doing it) that still doesn't make you proved obvtown.

I'm not following your second point at all. If Yates's case is derpy, why is Reck scummy for allowing it to exist, and not Yates for actually making it exist, or me for also allowing it to exist?

I have voted your slot every day, and I presented a case against alex first thing D2 when nobody else was looking at him hard.

Link to your case?
Also - is it still your case?

This, along with the chopped liver:

Here he screams in all caps that Pine is scum, but for all his apparent certainty this is all he ever says about Pine. I would think someone this certain about one of the wagons would be trying a lot harder to get that one lynched, rather than just waiting and letting the other one happen. Speaking of Triangle, weirdalex says that Reck really stretched his point about Triangle early on, which wouldn't be that bad except that it is the only thing he ever says about Triangle. Triangle had focus on her for basically the entire day, I don't see a good reason for alex to not state a read on her, and the Reck-stretching-his-point thing seems like a passive defense that still lets him fence-sit.

You can try to make this about the quantity of alex's pressure on Pine

relative to his pressure on anyone else

all you want, but the fact of the matter is that his ONLY attack on Pine, AT ALL, EVER, is this:

That is still the point though. You don't look at how well I play golf, and say "Look, Tiger Woods plays golf better than Thor, Thor must be trying to lose the game in order to...I dunno, make money by betting against himself."

You're applying a false criteria. If you agree that he pressured nobody more than his top suspect, and that his top suspect was almost all of his pressure, attacks, and attention (And he was, it's obvious) then it doesn't matter if you think it was weak pressure - because it was probably top level pressure for the skills of the player.

Unless you're saying alex was a really good player and was playing a weaker game in order to advance his scum agenda - that would be scummy, but I'd be curious to see your evidence of alex being a good player.

Does this make sense to you? Take a deep breath, please, and read it twice. It's a very compelling and clear defeat of your position.

If you hit the ball and it only went half as far as Tiger Woods' ball did, I would not assume your efforts were dishonest.
If you putted the ball two feet on the tee-off, I would assume exactly that.
I think Alex was putting.

Moar Uphill votes pl0x!

Seriously, people. Look at that quote. Then look at this one:

If you want to vote Reck I'd be willing to sheep you on that one

Then vote Thor. Then vote Thor some more.

Oh, dear sir, someday you'll learn about meta, and we won't have these confusions. I look forward to our second game together.
In any case...

Why "someday"? Why not just tell me about it

right now

? If you believe me calling those posts scummy is a "confusion", why wouldn't you want to clear that up right away? Especially with the deadline as close as it is, I don't see any good reason for you to be stalling here.

So I take it you don't find Reck scummy at all? Because you're not willing to get off an obviously now locked wagon to try something new?
Or do you not see already how the wagon on me is going to go no further today?

I don't find Reck scummy.

And the only reason the wagons are locked is because Grimmjow and Furcolow and Soda haven't commented on them. Until they do, I'm not going to assume this wagon will go no further.

While we're asking questions - I'd also like to have your read on Uphill.

I think he's town, mainly because I like his case on Thor.

[Uphill]

Vote Count 3.7

Thor665 (3): xRECKONERx, Yates, Uphill.
Uphill (3): Pine, Force of Nature, Thor665
Force of Nature (1): Furcolow.
SodaSpirit17 (1): Grimmjow.

Not Voting (1):

SodaSpirit17.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-11-22 21:50:00)

Two days, people. If you're not on a wagon, you better get on one NOW.