Open 354: Twin Trap in Morecambe (Concluded)

[Sampson]

@ Sampson,
are you a Jew? Sorry if I seem rude by asking, just curious.

Nope!

Vote: daftnarwhal

because narwhals are the spawn of the devil.

[Sampson]

EBWOP: Why the question, opa?

[Sampson]

Just about. Do you really have a definite town read this early? We still seem to be in RVS, based on the tone of discussion so far, at least.

@Thomas:

I'm here.

Vote: Trevor

For having a townread on me then voting me.

Is this a serious post?

[Sampson]

This post strikes me as odd. That was clearly an RVS-type vote. Why ask about the seriousness?

I actually didn't know that it was serious. I disagree that it was clearly RVS. Under ordinary circumstances, voting for somebody if you have a townread on them is scummy. Yes, your "townread" was RVS, but for all I knew he was taking you seriously. I wasn't sure, so I asked.

[Sampson]

just noticed that's L-1

. noone hammer please. if anyone wants to threaten and noone wants to get off, i would suggest a claim. its early, but you're "A-ha!" gambit deserves it imo.

You didn't check to see if he could be at L-1 before you voted?

Anyway, aside from that, I don't understand the foundation of opa's case on DJ. Asking for explanations for others' behavior is contributing, since it gives multiple perspectives/more information for the town to work with. I don't think it's hypocritical at all for DJ to ask that, which seems to be what opa is getting at in Post 79. I'd vote opa, but I'm not going to bring him to L-1 this early in the game. Which reminds me:

Unvote

.

I'm also wary of Adc. Outside of RVS, he hasn't done anything except vote while offering limited reasoning for doing so. I don't really see any hints of scumhunting, just voting.

[Sampson]

I'd vote opa, but I'm not going to bring him to L-1 this early in the game.

Could you elaborate, please?
Why do you think that I'm scummiest player here?
Because you don't understand my case? I don't remember since when this became a scumtell. Or because you're don_johnson's partner?
Why do I said this? You discredited both of me and Adc in the same post. Which is funny, because in the begining of that same post you accused DJ. Also, I saw over 9000 parties which were started from RVS-distancing vote from the major scum-partner, just like this:

vote: sampson

cause i'm in love with delilah. :/

No, it's that I don't think your case is rooted in logic. Town generally doesn't make internally inconsistent cases, since they're in a position where they are forced to use logic to scumhunt. It's perfectly reasonable to find an illogical case scummy. You're also putting far too much stock into an RVS vote.

As for my post which you find so questionable:

just noticed that's L-1

. noone hammer please. if anyone wants to threaten and noone wants to get off, i would suggest a claim. its early, but you're "A-ha!" gambit deserves it imo.

You didn't check to see if he could be at L-1 before you voted?

Anyway, aside from that, I don't understand the foundation of opa's case on DJ. Asking for explanations for others' behavior is contributing, since it gives multiple perspectives/more information for the town to work with. I don't think it's hypocritical at all for DJ to ask that, which seems to be what opa is getting at in Post 79. I'd vote opa, but I'm not going to bring him to L-1 this early in the game. Which reminds me:

Unvote

.

I'm also wary of Adc. Outside of RVS, he hasn't done anything except vote while offering limited reasoning for doing so. I don't really see any hints of scumhunting, just voting.

I wasn't casting suspicion toward DJ. That was just something that confused me. I didn't know if he had made sure you weren't at L-1 before voting. (I still don't have an answer for that)

I don't see why I have to limit my scumhunting to one person. If I find certain actions or behaviors scummy, I'll bring it up. It had been a page since I last posted, so I had more content to cover.

Mod: You missed my Unvote.

Sorry, I've corrected it now. Please try to vote/unvote on a separate line in the future. Thanks.

//Mod

[Sampson]

Spoiler:

I asked for clarification, did I? This

No, it's that I don't think your case is rooted in logic.

We have already heard. Where is exactly you think my case was "illogical" and why?

I had given the reason for that before you asked for clarification:

Anyway, aside from that, I don't understand the foundation of opa's case on DJ. Asking for explanations for others' behavior is contributing, since it gives multiple perspectives/more information for the town to work with. I don't think it's hypocritical at all for DJ to ask that, which seems to be what opa is getting at in Post 79.

This is in addition to equally bizarre reasoning such as assuming all old players are aggressive (everyone's playstyle is different), or accusing DJ of "shitting the thread with misrepresentation," when you're the one using obviously negative language without any reasoning to back it up (see your points 3 and 5 of #106--why is that post "amazing and brilliant?" If DJ's misreppinig is so obvious, why not bother to give reasoning for that statement? It should be easy, after all.) And it's not OMGUS if you give reasoning for your vote.

You're also putting far too much stock into an RVS vote.

Not at all. My suspicion is based on my suspicion of don_johnson and on this post Post #104 of yours. Besides, I find it slightly scummy as of itself. It looks like a provocation from the posotion where you yourself are staying on the side watching from a safe distance. There you didn't seriously accused anyone only redircted pre-existed attention. And I see how don_johnson was getting benefit out of it, which makes my suspicions worst . You have mentioned the simple fact how don_johnson did not noticed that was L-1. This fact was noticeble for a long period of time, yet no one of players had jumped on it. Therefore, it made no harm to your partner, more so, it was good for distancing.
As for the side tells. I have an RVS and the fact that you missed my request to call me Jora. Usually it works well, the "WTF DJ" thing happend few posts later. This is to say I literally feel how

you just skipped my posts

.

I was addressing your last point in your response to me (post #107), in which you cited the RVS vote as one of the reasons you thought I was DJ's scumpartner (or not? Your winking emoticon didn't make it clear how serious you were...). Honestly, I find very little value in analyzing RVS votes. In addition, seeing as I find points 2, 3, 4 , and 5 of #106 to be illogical, #1, in which you state you dislike DJ's RVS vote, is the only point left.

I mentioned the L-1 thing precisely because no one had brought it up at that point. Like I said, I found it odd, and I wanted to bring it to the town's attention.

I read your request to be called Jora. At the time, I thought you were only addressing DJ. I haven't addressed you directly by username since that post.

And I didn't seriously accuse anyone? I was accusing Adc of active lurking. I was accusing you of having an illogical case. I was accusing DJ of not reading the thread completely.

[Sampson]

I change my mind, opa's last posts feel town. Adc is the best lynch today still.

Can you be more specific? What makes them feel so town to you?

[Sampson]

@J: You realize you have more scumreads than there are scum, right? You're basically saying you're willing to lynch half of the players here. That just doesn't sit well with me. It makes it way too easy to just switch from one bandwagon to another. I do agree about Opa and DJ being town, though. The motivation behind Opa/Jora's posts seems to be largely (if not primarily) motivated for emotional/personal reasons. I know you're on V/LA and all, but until you explain your reads, my vote's on you.

Vote: [J]

[Sampson]

Yes I do realize I have more "scum-reads" then there are scum. I also did not say I have scum-reads on You/Daft but you guys are just null who I don't really mind seeing going because I do not mind losing nulls because I could be wrong on them. Adc is the only real scum-read I have and Thomas is just a lean.

I don't get why you are voting me really because the action you are saying I am doing is not scummy really. =P

Well, I was originally voting you because of the lack of reasoning you gave for people you said you'd like to see go (which I assumed were scumreads), especially when you named four of them. But now when you say this:

Also checked the front page, yeah Sampson/Daft worry me and can deffo go.

I will go for any lynch of those four at the moment

and to get me onto DJ, I would need a pretty compelling case for a D1 lynch of that slot. Till then, fine with him. Gonna keep watching the thread and the like but otherwise still too busy with theatre and stuffs.

It stands out to me. I don't understand why someone that's town would lynch someone they don't think is scum, even if they think they could be wrong about them. You can be wrong about scumreads, too. You lynch who you think is scummy, not someone who isn't.

[Sampson]

@J: You realize you have more scumreads than there are scum, right?
Vote: [J]

Are you serious? That attack is terrible. I had to reread it a couple times just to understand where the scum motivation was.

Unvote

,

Vote: Sampson

I could say the same about this. Did you not read the part where I said I wanted an explanation for his reads? Of course I'm going to be suspicious if someone lists off four people they want to be lynched with such little reasoning. Also, I'm going to agree with Thomas. Please elaborate on what you've identified as the "scum motivation" behind my post. Your accusation lacks substance.

A connection on a town flip is who they questioned, who they were looking at, others views on that slot, and a few other arrays of info based on flips. Flips are wonderous because they illuminate so many paths. <3

It's kind of why I abhor D1 with a passion.

But if someone flips town, that doesn't mean that they were right. Their main suspects could have all been town, for all you know.

Sampson, The reason I am okay with lynching them, is because of the fact I could be wrong on them. I don't mind losing nulls/null-scum leans because I could be wrong on them. I am wanting to lynch those I find are scummy, look at my votes and what I am doing. Where did I say I am not lynching people who are scummy? =3

I was replying directly in response to you saying you were fine with lynching null reads. Why would you consider lynching null reads if you also have scum reads? Why would you vote someone that you had no definite opinion on? I just can't see anyone do that unless they're scum jumping on a bandwagon.

[Sampson]

@DJ: What don't you like about my case on J?

[Sampson]

@J: You realize you have more scumreads than there are scum, right? You're basically saying you're willing to lynch half of the players here. That just doesn't sit well with me.

what the fuck is this shit? having a scumread does not necessarily imply wanting to lynch them right now. i, for example, tend to assume that everyone in the game is scum, unless role-confirmed to me, mod-confirmed, or dead. i work backwards from there.

I voted J because of his lack of reasoning for those he "wanted to see go" and his reasoning for wanting to lynch his null reads. Did you not see where I said that?

[Sampson]

Ugh, sorry for not posting. I've been busy.

I had a scumread on your slot, kuribo, because of J, but I have a townread on you individually because I see definite scumhunting on your part. I do disagree with you about Jora, however. I have a slight townread on him because even though his attack on DJ (which makes up the bulk of his posts) is very illogical, it seems to be more emotionally/personally motivated than scum motivated at parts, and I've come to realize that such blatant illogical reasoning is more a null tell than anything else.

Unvote

And I do agree about GNR. Like you've all said, he's just there. He hasn't shown any initiative and hasn't shown any effort at scumhunting. He's at L-1, though, and we still have time, so I'm not going to hammer now.

I have a slight townread on DJ and a more definite one on Adc, as well. I was a bit wary of Trevor after his weird accusation toward me, and I'm still waiting for the computer fairy to visit Jon so that he can post. Everyone else is null.

Anyway,

@GNR: Spending time defending yourself is fine (even though you can still call people out on scummy behavior), but the reason you're being attacked is that your only contributions so far have been your defending of yourself. Basically, you only show up when someone is accusing you of being a scummy mcscummerson, and I, for one, haven't seen much of anything from you so far that could be called scumhunting.