Destiny Mafia: The Land of Hearts [Endgame]


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Post Post #464 (isolation #0) » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:50 pm

Post by Tierce »

We, the dead, are allowed to post once today. This is our one post, including commentary from all of us.
We are not allowed to post again today, and we don't know whether we'll be allowed to in future days. If another day like this rolls up again, make sure to post any questions you want us to answer beforehand.



It's site meta to ignore the reads of the dead, and the five of us (Kats, quadz, Staeg, AV and yours truly) haven't chatted much back and forth--so tbh the power we could have as a 'dead masonry' is pretty much lost. However, you have our individual reads. Perhaps Nuwen is right--fresh replacement, new reads, let's keep her silent? It's a possibility.


I did not manage to read the game before replacing in, but I have two other gifts for you.

- The first is colored VC. There isn't actual analysis to it, but it should take care of some of the laziness factor in grabbing the votecounts from D1/D2 and putting them together.

Spoiler: D1 votes (pre-crash)
Fate wrote:GreyICE (2): Parama, SpyreX
Nuwen (1): xRECKONERx
Tierce
(1): Nuwen
AurorusVox
(1):
Staeg


Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta,
quadz08
, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce
, GreyICE, Creatively-Named Hydra, RedCoyote,
AurorusVox
Fate wrote:Creatively-Named Hydra (4): Parama, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Tierce

GreyICE (3): Parama, SpyreX, Creatively-Named Hydra
Tierce
(1): Nuwen
AurorusVox
(1):
Staeg


Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta,
quadz08
, kanyeknowsbest, GreyICE,
AurorusVox
Fate wrote:Creatively-Named Hydra (5): Parama, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Tierce
,
Staeg

Tierce
(2): Nuwen,
quadz08

GreyICE (2): SpyreX, Creatively-Named Hydra

Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest, GreyICE,
AurorusVox
Fate wrote:Creatively-Named Hydra (5): Parama, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Tierce
,
Staeg

Tierce
(2): Nuwen,
quadz08

GreyICE (2): SpyreX, Creatively-Named Hydra
quadz08
(1): GreyICE

Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest
Fate wrote:Creatively-Named Hydra (6): Parama, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Tierce
,
Staeg
, Nuwen
quadz08
(2): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta
Tierce
(1):
quadz08

GreyICE (1): SpyreX
Staeg
(1):
AurorusVox

RedCoyote (1): Creatively-Named Hydra

Not Voting: kanyeknowsbest
Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce

Creatively-Named Hydra (4): RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Staeg
, Nuwen
Tierce
(1):
quadz08

GreyICE (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Creatively-Named Hydra
Staeg
(1):
AurorusVox


Not Voting: Parama
Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce

Creatively-Named Hydra (3): RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

Nuwen (1): Parama
Staeg
(1):
AurorusVox

GreyICE (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Creatively-Named Hydra

Not Voting: Nuwen,
quadz08
Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce

Creatively-Named Hydra (3): RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

Nuwen (1): Parama
GreyICE (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Creatively-Named Hydra

Not Voting: Nuwen,
quadz08
,
AurorusVox
Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce

Creatively-Named Hydra (3): RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

GreyICE (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Parama

Not Voting: Nuwen,
quadz08
,
AurorusVox
, Creatively-Named Hydra
Fate wrote:
quadz08
(5): GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce
,
AurorusVox

Creatively-Named Hydra (3): RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

GreyICE (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Parama

Not Voting: Nuwen,
quadz08
, Creatively-Named Hydra


Spoiler: D1 votes (post-crash)
In post 25, Fate wrote:RedCoyote (1): Parama

Not Voting: SpyreX, Nuwen, Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce
, GreyICE, Creatively-Named Hydra, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx,
quadz08
,
Staeg
,
AurorusVox
In post 120, Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): SpyreX, GreyICE, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

Lady Lambdadelta (2): RedCoyote, Nuwen
RedCoyote (1): Parama

Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, Creatively-Named Hydra,
Tierce
, kanyeknowsbest,
AurorusVox
In post 125, Fate wrote:
quadz08
(4): SpyreX, GreyICE, xRECKONERx,
Staeg

Lady Lambdadelta (2): RedCoyote, Nuwen
RedCoyote (1): Parama

Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, Creatively-Named Hydra,
Tierce
, kanyeknowsbest,
AurorusVox
In post 165, Fate wrote:
quadz08
(6): SpyreX, GreyICE, xRECKONERx, Creatively-Named Hydra,
Tierce
, Parama
Lady Lambdadelta (3): RedCoyote, Nuwen,
AurorusVox

AurorusVox
(1):
Staeg


Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
quadz08
In post 188, Fate wrote:
quadz08
has been lynched. He was the Four of Hearts, Vanilla Heart.


quadz08
(7, LYNCH): SpyreX, GreyICE, xRECKONERx, Creatively-Named Hydra,
Tierce
, Parama,
AurorusVox
-
At least one anti-town player in this wagon

Lady Lambdadelta (2): RedCoyote, Nuwen
AurorusVox
(1):
Staeg


Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest,
quadz08


Spoiler: D2 votes
In post 226, Fate wrote:SpyreX (1): GreyICE
Creatively-Named Hydra (2): Nuwen, RedCoyote

Not Voting: SpyreX, Lady Lambdadelta, Parama, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce
, Creatively-Named Hydra, xRECKONERx,
AurorusVox
In post 251, Fate wrote:SpyreX (2): GreyICE,
Tierce

Creatively-Named Hydra (2): Nuwen, RedCoyote
Tierce
(1): xRECKONERx

Not Voting: SpyreX, Lady Lambdadelta, Parama, kanyeknowsbest, Creatively-Named Hydra,
AurorusVox
In post 276, Fate wrote:Creatively-Named Hydra (2): Nuwen, RedCoyote
Tierce
(1): xRECKONERx
GreyICE (1):
AurorusVox

AurorusVox
(1): GreyICE

Not Voting: SpyreX, Lady Lambdadelta, Parama, kanyeknowsbest,
Tierce
, Creatively-Named Hydra
In post 295, Fate wrote:
AurorusVox
has been lynched. He was Luck, Death Escape Artist.


AurorusVox
(6, LYNCH): GreyICE, kanyeknowsbest, SpyreX, xRECKONERx, Parama, Creatively-Named Hydra
Creatively-Named Hydra (2): Nuwen, RedCoyote
Tierce
(1): xRECKONERx
GreyICE (1):
AurorusVox


Not Voting: Lady Lambdadelta,
Tierce





- The second gift is a new version of pre-crash D1. Flipped-town players have their posts colored green, quadz-wagon is in brown (at least one of them is scum). This should make the game a bit easier to read at a glance.



It takes quite a bit to load. You can either read it online or download the full thing here.


Let me know if you have issues opening it or you find any errors; I can't reply in-thread, but I can probably handle technical difficulties via Fate.

All the internal links ("In post XYZ, ABC wrote") should work on that file.





From Staeg:


I, Staeg, have a hider-but-not-really-like role: I can target a person; if the person is town, I am modconfirmed as town in the morning, but if he's scum, I die.
I did NOT take any action.
I think that CNH should die today and there's too much purging that needs to be done; I'm not overly good at reading the higher-tier players, but if it was up to me, I'd lynch CNH, kanye, LLD, RC, parama and GI with fire and in that order.





From Tierce:


When it comes to the game, since I was silenced so early (>.> blah blah darkness shakefist etc.)--here follows my step-by-step read of the game, fwiw.

D1 (pre-crash)


Parama had a very good and quick reaction to Reck's dayvig claim. Seven minutes to post, I don't think that he is faking it. On the other hand, Parama trolls like it's nobody's business, so no bloody idea.

SpyreX has a minor towntell immediately after. Without any town flips, he says:
SpyreX wrote:NO SHOTS RECK I NEED YOU

IN MY
HEART

This could just be an expression, but I think it's telling of how some of the town roles are Hearts.

I have an issue with Nuwen: she's a logical scumhunter, and logic = <3 for me. She looks town, but it could be just because I really
really
like her posts.

Parama's reads here are weird when compared to the NK/lynch results. Food for thought.

I strongly believe the hydra is town, because scumkondi wouldn't flip a table of rage at kanye (who was defending him) when kanye called him badtown. And GreyICE is town for calling this out.

akasfsdhfksg at this stage I'm p-sure any D1 lynch wagon should have had the lynchee on it. Water under the bridge, but oh if I had been playing.

I mean HOLY SHIT, the hydra suggests their presence in their own wagon. This is a town move, not a scum one. If the hydra flipped scum and the wagon was black, you'd turbolynch through the wagon anyway. The hydra was trying to ensure a red wagon. YOU DERPS. (Under the same logic, SpyreX says Town for his vigshot. I love the braining going on in this game when people actually bother to.)




D1 (post-crash)


Seriously do I still have to read sigh. ._. From my previous list, if you remove the town reads and dead town in the quadz wagon, Parama/Reck should be getting the noose.

Oh btw another gift for y'all. Here is the original WUTLOLSKI, by ursulav @ dA: The Biting Pear of Salamanca. There are plush versions linked over there.

is SpyreX claiming vig who will shoot RC. If I see anyone else calling SpyreX scum there will be fliptable.gif.

Reck going all trolololol makes me anxious, and I'd go for a Reck lynch at this stage.

Scumreads stay the same throughout the day. Reck/Parama/RedCoyote, {Lady Lambdadelta, kanyeknowsbest} because screw lurkers.




D2


Staeg was a scumkill. There was no scumkill the night after. Either they shot Reck, Reck submitted the kill, or someone else did something.
Consider massclaim.

Scum killed suboptimally N1--why?




D3


With no mafia kill (unless they shot me too, but lolwut?) and Reck jailed, I'm inclined to go
LYNCH ONE OF PARAMA/RECK NOW
.

There are random components to several roles. GreyICE has varied effects (roleblocker, jailkeeper, doctor, ?), SpyreX needs to bet on the alignment of his shot. We can 1) have a somewhat random redirector, 2) SpyreX's claimed role has a modnote for actual targets, 3) RC is a Nexus. Take all this stuff under consideration
and ffs lynch on the quadz wagon!


[Nuwen] - THANK YOU, someone acknowledges that I am part of this game. >.> (Uhm, yeah, a ghostly part anyway.)
[GreyICE] - What is going on is that Reck is scum, that's what.
[GreyICE] - CNH is town. Remember the angry fit at kanye? That wasn't faked.

Reck and Parama nominated each other for the D1 wagon.


Ugh ugh ugh. Reck removed himself from the correlations matrix on the D1 wagon and that changes all the results. NUWEN. Get over here and do correlations for everyone, yourself included.

[Parama] - This post is scummy as all shit.

Stop trusting Reck as town. Play the numbers. Do the correlations already. Reck got such a high ratio on scumteams with SpyreX because he's excluding himself from the count.


Town: SpyreX, Nuwen, Creatively-Named Hydra, GreyICE

You should be lynching on the D1 wagon. Do not lynch the hydra, they are town. Lynch Parama. Shoot Reck if Parama flips town. RedCoyote can wait, and after him LLD and kanyeknowsbest.






From quadz08:


Staeg not taking an action means he WAS the scumkill, pretty much 100%. If there's a town role that killed him, claim that shit immediately. Look back at who thought Staeg was town on D1 (thanks to Tierce for recovering it), see if any of them make sense as scumz, especially experienced and/or loud players who can direct/convince a scumteam of stuff. I have seen Spyrex do the "lead the town with awesome plan" as scum before... it makes me wary of him. I still think RC is town, but his lack of posting is putting me off that read. CNH dying with fire is :goodchoices:.





From AurorusVox:


I have hardly anything of use to contribute. GI is probscum.





From Katsuki:


GI could be scum... he has a tendency of buddying me HARD when scum.





Stop. Reread. Think about what you are doing for a moment. Then powerlynch scum so I can actually count this game as a victory. :P

Good luck!
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Post Post #718 (isolation #1) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:32 pm

Post by Tierce »

So much sorrow.
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Post Post #736 (isolation #2) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:40 pm

Post by Tierce »

Seriously, no words about how sad I am that it came down to this, after those two scum lynches and an obvious "why is Nuwen alive" situation.

Congratulations, Nuwen.

Can we have the scum QT?
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Post Post #742 (isolation #3) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:59 pm

Post by Tierce »

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/M6tfH5T3feL

Cue a lot of frustrated sighs.
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Post Post #748 (isolation #4) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Post by Tierce »

LLD, honestly, you can't talk that much. You didn't exactly make it evident that you were considering Nuwen. You called Nuwen town all through the previous day, and you were calling kondi/DV scummy at the end. I've been hammered by affronted town for less. (Tiger MetaTiger.)

You had a hissy emotional fit D1. No matter what you think of the game, lurking hurts town all the time, and choosing to do so because you were annoyed with the game instead of replacing out hurt town. Scum will take every chance to create town apathy, and you took it and ran with it.


RedCoyote deserved the lynch and I'm annoyed he didn't put in the effort for town. Dammit, I feel like
I
did more than him, and that is just sad.


kondi, you need a cooler head, and if you intend to hydra, I think you need to talk things further with your partner. DV can be rather rational and look at the motives behind actions, AND he can be really obvtown. I thought your slot was clearly town from the beginning, but you need to settle down so you can actually help the game along instead of being used as the scum's pet mislynch. Besides, you two need to learn that hydras are excellent D1 pet policy lynches, so you really, really need to shape up.


A little bird told me that Nuwen IM'd Fate ranting about me being allowed to post. >.> It was entertaining, reading the scum QT right around the dead-post.

Somehow, this game managed to top my 1.4 game days of survival as town. :lol:
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Post Post #751 (isolation #5) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:38 pm

Post by Tierce »

I know. I realized that after I posted it (and if I had realized so before, I would have asked for a massclaim of guesses and you would have been conftown). I'm not discounting your help there, LLD.
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Post Post #753 (isolation #6) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Post by Tierce »

xRECKONERx wrote:I'm scum now, k

deadtown gets ONE POST and Tierce decides to go pants on head and lead people on a witchhunt against me

k

k

k

k

k

k

k

kk
xRECKONERx wrote:btw ill totally go back and do the list again with me as a possible scum but WHY THE HELL WOULD TOWN DO THAT, IT WOULD JUST WASTE TIME

OMG I MUST BE SCUM BC O' THAT

goddammit this is so stupid
Parama wrote:hey tierce

I know you'rre confirmed town and all

but your reads are still awfulness

Love and cookies,

Parama

Love you too, cheeky scumbags. :roll:
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Post Post #764 (isolation #7) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:49 am

Post by Tierce »

Nuwen wrote:My
real
complaint about the dead talking wasn't about reads. N1 action resolution was pretty unclear at that point in the game, before GI claimed out his N1 block on Spyrex. Knowing that Staeg was DEFINITELY the nightkill was information the town shouldn't have had so soon. Town should have been forced to share more data with each other to figure out that Staeg was shot.

This is the first time I've played with a deadtalk mechanic. I'd have to see it play out in more games, but I think sticking a bunch of full-reveal town in a room together and giving them PoE on an ongoing game might be a little too powerful if their communication with the living isn't restricted
severely
. For example, I'd try this mechanic and allow dead players to only quote x things that have been posted (no editing, no molesting). We killed Tierce for a reason: limit the new perspective.

To be fair, town was confused as to what had happened N1, and only figured it out by Staeg's postmortem non-action claim.

The deadtalk could have been considerably more powerful. Say you had killed SpyreX N1 instead of Staeg, for example. Compare the hypo-results there.


Many players, regardless of alignment, stop caring once they die. This kind of mechanic keeps them engaged (considering I tend to die early, scumhunting in dead QTs becomes a bit of a hobby, but that's me being me) and participating actively--but it is still, apparently, not enough to prod them to the same level of interest players generally have while alive.

I think this hinged majorly on Reck and Parama's reactions to me. RedCoyote, also accused by me, never even acknowledged the dead post. Most others didn't, or nodded and carried on. Town doesn't care about the dead. Very few people bother doing NK analysis, very few people bother questioning wagons, and almost everything is chalked up to WIFOM--which lets the scum team get off scot-free in glaringly evident circumstances.

One of the reasons I love playing VT is that I get to focus on
these
aspects of nightplay, not on what the PRs are doing above my head.


Possibly a swingy setup, though I don't know much about balancing games. Nevertheless, it was a fun game to watch, albeit a frustrating one toward the end.
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Post Post #811 (isolation #8) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:32 pm

Post by Tierce »

In the dead QT, Tierce wrote:The scumteam correlation business is actually much more complex than Reck is putting it; scumA -> scumB doesn't actually mean that one of B's choices is scum with them, because scum can afford not to nominate all members of a team for the wagon, especially if they are late in the nomination count and there are already high numbers for one of the scumbags. Besides,
the whole "let's lynch the person with the highest possible scumteam correlation result" has a fundamental flaw: town nominates their townreads. This ends up with SpyreX on the noose for nothing more than being extremely protown with his D1 plan.


More than looking at that, they should be looking at who cross-nominated, repeated pairings, and the order in which the nominations were done. Unfortunately, a good chunk of the order was lost in the crash and was not cached by Google.

I should have pored more carefully over this before posting, but water under the bridge, again. ._.

I also don't seem to understand some of the scumteams that Reck suggested; how is 'Parama, GreyICE, RC' feasible from the nominations, for example? I think this is deliberate manipulation of the results.


For the sake of completeness, here are the scumteams I gathered; this isn't exactly manageable for a lynch choice for the above reasons, and it does not mean that the scumteam is actually expressed here. In short, a listing like this is useless for town, and will only aid scum lynch strong townreads. I really hope someone notices it before it's too late.


CNH GreyICE SpyreX
CNH Nuwen SpyreX
CNH Parama SpyreX
GreyICE kanye Reck
GreyICE kanye SpyreX
GreyICE LLD Nuwen
GreyICE LLD Parama
GreyICE LLD Reck
GreyICE LLD Spyrex
GreyICE Nuwen Reck
GreyICE Parama Reck
GreyICE Parama SpyreX
GreyICE RC Reck
GreyICE Reck SpyreX
GreyICE SpyreX
kanye Nuwen SpyreX
kanye Parama Reck
kanye Parama SpyreX
kanye Reck Spyrex
LLD Nuwen RC
LLD Nuwen Reck
LLD Nuwen SpyreX
LLD Parama Reck
LLD Parama Spyrex
LLD Reck SpyreX
Nuwen Parama Reck
Nuwen Parama Spyrex
Nuwen RC
Nuwen RC Reck
Nuwen RC SpyreX
Nuwen Reck SpyreX
Nuwen Spyrex
Parama RC Reck
Parama Reck
Parama Reck SpyreX
Parama SpyreX
RC Reck SpyreX


If it is one of the above, I call Parama, RC, Reck.

Looking at the "times someone is referred" again:

CNH 3
GreyICE 13
kanye 6
LLD 10
Nuwen 14
Parama 14
RC 7
Reck 18
Spyrex 21



======


I really hope that Nuwen is town (and she realizes the issues with this whole thing). That post of hers is rather heartwarming.
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Post Post #813 (isolation #9) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:41 pm

Post by Tierce »

It already happens. I rarely live beyond N2 as town, so I might as well kick things back and forth on dead QTs. ._.
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Post Post #815 (isolation #10) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Post by Tierce »

You're adorable, LLD.

But it's okay, I don't want to get you yelling~
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