Mini 1313: Blood Bowl Mafia (Game over)

[GreyICE]

Hi.

I'm here, I'm town, my name is Fart the flatulent and I'm awesome.

Now what fuckers are trying to mislynch me?

[GreyICE]

So far through page 2

Glork starting the day on one of two choices means he's likely town. Classic pressure maneuver.

Ghostlin is an idiot. Sk speculation really now? I assume pappy claimed vig, so... What is this doing?

Tierce softclaims pr result on ghostlin in 46.

Can someone explain this to me before I start giving reviews of various IQs that suggest half of you need helmets and drool catchers?

Also I'm so fucking town~

[GreyICE]

I dun need friends. I need dead scumbags. Will killing you get me a dead scumbag?

[GreyICE]

Do i want to ask this but, Glork what are your feelings on Inte?

Okay, that slot fills me with the burning heebie-jeebies. I still haven't read day 1, I'm on a phone and can't see it, but based on day 2 I'd say that he needs some death.

Completing my analysis, Ghostlin doesn't feel super like the obvious scum here. There's too many coasters (StephanB, pizza, slaandar) who seem content to let this game be malee vs ghostlin. And one of those was town, and any competent scum like backup plans in case your victim claims hyper fucking obvious town claim, well... I can easily see a whole bunch of people going "ooh ghostlin, let's lynch him since malee is town!"

To be honest, I probably need to read day 1 to make an informed judgment, but I'm quite capable of saying that I think that right now Stephenb and Inte have not been getting nearly the attention their play deserves (vla or no vla, Inte I'd scummy).

On the other hand, if this game is any indication, all our wagons have been on easy targets, except ghostlin. Yeah, yeah the easy target fallacy, but scum love em and we've been good at hitting them. That would suggest ghost is an organic push from town, which would strongly suggest Tierce/Glork town.

Really though, what I want the answer to is this one question: GLork, you apparently know pizza would be practically useless. Since being practically useless is not an alignment tell, why didn't you suggest the vig shoot him? It's the best thing to do with alignment unknown players who will never be very useful, and based on what I'm seeing I don't see evidence of anyone else being a better shot.

[GreyICE]

Really though, what I want the answer to is this one question: GLork, you apparently know pizza would be practically useless. Since being practically useless is not an alignment tell, why didn't you suggest the vig shoot him? It's the best thing to do with alignment unknown players who will never be very useful, and based on what I'm seeing I don't see evidence of anyone else being a better shot.

I have a town read on him. Firstly, the vig is dead, and secondly, I wouldn't want the vig shooting townies anyway.
And IDRK about inte. He's someone I wouldn't mind seeing investigated/shot, since I can't get a beat on him one way or another.

Slandaar: Malee was at L-1 (before I safety-unvoted) without inte or Pizza even weighing in on the situation. You have literally NO ground to stand on. L-1 with 20% of the game not checking in = time to claim. Your position is untenable, yet you continue to try to defend it.

Unvote
Vote: Slandaar

No. Bad.

Theory votes bad.

What is this

[GreyICE]

Stefan... Glorks town, although currently being ridiculous.

^^^^ This post is vote-worthy, GreyICE. Not theory vote.

See also Slandaar on the Kondi-lynch yesterday. I still have to review it in detail myself, but {Slandaar, Ghostlin, Malee} was the pool of potential scums on the D1 mislynch.

Yeah okay.

I've read day 1.

Vote: Slaandar

This is good. This is very good.

"I'm throwing the bomb on" is a classic scumtell.

[GreyICE]

See, I have one problem with inte. I played with him in Newbie #1185, and he was bad-logic + trolling town. I flailed at him through a good chunk of the game, and pretty much the only reason I didn't push harder was that the N1 NK target had had a solid townread on him.
I can't read this kind of player worth a damn.

And I did a spectacularly bad job of reading StefanB in Warlocks and Werewolves. Damned warlock. >.>

Tierce are you scum again?

'cause you're acting like it -_-

[GreyICE]

This push on StefanB makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

I'm ' ' to declaring Ghostlin obvious fucking town.

[GreyICE]

My paranoia has added '...because I figured out who we're going to night kill' to the end of that last sentence.

[GreyICE]

... annnnndddd that was at post #224.

Apparently I missed a page.

[GreyICE]

What unique scenario? A bomb? 'cause I've seen lots of 'I dun wanna hammer bomb' from scum.

[GreyICE]

goddammit. i want to call greyice scum now.

Yeah but I'm not. Could not possibly lynch me~

So be more productive

[GreyICE]

Grey/Malee is scum.

Nope.jpg

Try again

[GreyICE]

I'm going to re-read the entire game tomorrow/Monday.

For now, I'll state that I have zero interest in lynching the following players today (in no particular order): Ghostlin, Pizza,

inte

, Glork, Tierce.

I need to sort out exactly how I feel about the game, and don't think I can do that without dedicating some serious time to reading through everything. There are a lot of *possibilities* I see, but I need to figure out which of these possibilities are most likely.

What?

[GreyICE]

-_-

What did you tell me about Magister Ludi?

[GreyICE]

What did you tell me about Magister Ludi, Glork?

[GreyICE]

What does that have to do with this game?

It has rather a lot to do with this game.

You thought he was town for one single reason (the Tierce wagon analysis) that I thought was easily duplicated by scum, and you ignored everything else about him.

Now Inte white knighted Kondi, and you're saying that post is a good reason to shut down suspicion.

You are putting way too much faith in "Town tells."

[GreyICE]

Bring it on, broski. If the only way Inte gets lynched is going through you then I'm quite prepared to do that.

[GreyICE]

And I don't fucking buy your Slaandar shit either.

[GreyICE]

EBWOP: ftr, grey, it's much more than just that. Note two things:
1) I put inte on my no-lynch-today list BEFORE I did my D1 re-read and saw the kondi thing.
2) I said I don't want to lynch inte today. I'm not shutting anything down.

Cool. I don't give five flying figs what you want.

[GreyICE]

And I don't fucking buy your Slaandar shit either.

You're cute when you try to act all bossy and angry. Do you even have any idea why I took Slandaar off my list?

Do I care?

You've started the day with one binary choice, you then moved to Slaandar, and now you've got a second binary choice.

At the moment, I literally just do not give a shit about what you are doing this game. Not. One. Shit.

I am actually a bit annoyed at this point. You are pushing bullshit at me and acting like it's scummy when I question you.

Frankly, with the way you're cooking here if I were scum I'd just be sheeping your every word and complimenting you on how bright you were, we could lynch town for ages like that.

[GreyICE]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pizza

You looked through my posts and managed to type that up in 2 minutes did you?

get out of here scumbag

Wow.

I vote for you, you attack me as scum.

PV votes for you, you attack PV as scum.

Pizza votes for you, you attack Pizza as scum.

Meanwhile you explain that nothing you're doing is scummy.

What.

[GreyICE]

Pizza...
You know why I checked your post history when I did? because ISOing someone? you? didnt make sense... I knew you were lying and you are.

also nice explanation: 'oh well you know I read the thread then OH I GOTS PROD BETTA POST' with such a detailed explanation telling me you got doughnuts which yes I needed to know! but you forgot the part where you ISOed me apparently. Its basically the only explanation (in theory) you could give but you botched it.

Pizza is so obvscum here...

...

This is town?

[GreyICE]

The case on pizza is pretty simple;

He posted saying he ISOed me (or words to those effect) within 2 minutes of posting elsewhere.

Now, what did he post as excuse? a mess which is jumbled..

'oh ya i read thread THEN I noticed I got a prod so was OH BETTA POST!!! READ THREAD AGAIN!!!!!!! BUT THEN I FORGOT TO POST LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1'

The guys scum. his explanation is a waffling mess.

You used to post on these boards as Enigma, didn't you.

Unvote

You're a moron, but that's not scummy.

[GreyICE]

Glork.

Why shouldn't I be voting for you?

Will you give me one of your buddies in return?

[GreyICE]

Vote: Glork

You're better than this.

[GreyICE]

grey why are u voting him we have 3 days left

I.
Want.
Him.
Dead.

Got it?

[GreyICE]

Also, I admit Pizza is probtown.

Glork wants him in LyLo badly.

[GreyICE]

grey why are u voting him we have 3 days left

I.
Want.
Him.
Dead.

Got it?

Then nightkill me, champ.

You already know I'd buddy you like hell and do exactly that were I really scum. Done it once before, and it worked too.

But you just need an argument, and that's the one. You know you have to night kill me if you want me dead, you should have stuck to the buddying + knife you did when I replaced in. You should have stuck to that malee lynch, you might have gotten a claim out of her. But that window has passed Glork, and you need to die.

Kill Glork for me, folks. It's time.

[GreyICE]

Fairly simple. Today has been nothing but pure, blind opportunism. Started with Ghostlin and Malee. Was getting somewhere with malee, but I replace in. He goes "yay you're town!" because I told him to suck eggs on that bullshit claim request.

Then we go after slaandar. Weeeee. Slaandar proceeds to say "meta me" and engage in the most unbelievable OMGUS I've ever seen.

Now he's pushing PV. Bullshit.

Inte is confirmed town because.. ?

Glork just doesn't want to bus before he dies. All Glork is doing is calling people town so he can buddy them, and when that doesn't work he calls them scum.

He needs to fucking die. This here is grade A bullshit.

[GreyICE]

So Grey, who exactly do you think are my scumbuddies?

Also, the mistake in calling you town when you replaced in is nothing more than

the exact same mistake I made when CES replaced into MLP mafia

, which, if you're not completely moronic, should pretty much automatically tell you that I'm protown. Unfortunately for YOU, I'm not retarded, and I've LEARNED from my mistake. Also, your behavior has made it remarkably clear that you're not townGrey.

In what game did you buddy me as scum and "it worked"? Becuase I honestly cannot for the life of me remember when that happened.

Square Enix. Would have won too if damn other scum didn't keep shooting me.

Anyway, you can read me better than this. I am 100% Town. You are not, because you think you can push this shit on me and it will fly.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, I pushed Prana because he's an overdramatic drama queen who flies into a tizzy when he's pushed. I needed easy lynches.

Are you trying to sell this town on the idea that I think you're an easy lynch?

[GreyICE]

What? Like Slaandar? Lemme put it this way, most of this town is happy with a Slaandar lynch.

If you're saying what I think you are that does make sense of a few things.

Vote: StephanB

You like PV. I don't see why. StephanB needs to die.

[GreyICE]

OK, I have paid work to do right now, but will have time this afternoon to catchup and address Glork and anyone else.

Soooo... you're posting to tell us you're not posting.

Yay.

[GreyICE]

OK, I have paid work to do right now, but will have time this afternoon to catchup and address Glork and anyone else.

Soooo... you're posting to tell us you're not posting.

Yay.

Mmmmmmaybe we should just lynch PVscum and be done with this charade.

Yeah, except I'm pretty sure of StephanB scum and I'm not at all convinced by PeregrineV scum.

So you can suck eggs.

I promise you if he claims some shitty unprovable power role 1 day from deadline I will power hammer his ass.

Also meta sucks~

[GreyICE]

Whatever. I could flip over to StefanB/BBMolla if we really want to.

Good. He's scum. Let's flip him post haste.

[GreyICE]

Consistency is a scumtell.

[GreyICE]

BBmolla deserves to die.

Lets make him die folks.

[GreyICE]

Are you feeling me out to see if I can start a Glork wagon?

What do you think of PV?

[GreyICE]

Yeah let's lynch BBmolla.

It's a fucking slam dunk.

[GreyICE]

Hi folks.

BBmolla thinks he can coast this day out.

Let's kill him.

[GreyICE]

Grey, answer his questions.

Otherwise shut up and let me do magic.

No and no.
BB needs to die.

[GreyICE]

Grey, answer his questions.

^

How am I coasting

Lessee.
With about no time left to deadline you have:

A shit vote on slaandar which was based on bullshit meta
No scumreads
No vote
Haven't read the thread

So you basically lamely replaced in, slapped your vote down on a wagon for no reason at all, and appear to want to ride out the day by needling me for voting for you.

I expect an OMGUS vote is the proper way to finish this scum sequence off.

[GreyICE]

Have you ever played with BBmolla?

I have. So far, I have a pretty accurate record of reading him. Stop tunneling

again

, you're just ruining the signal:noise ratio.

Now answer his questions.

What evidence do you have of BB not reading the thread? I see him catching up.

What questions?

As for BB not reading the thread, he hasn't even read PVs post. At the wire, if you start anywhere you start with the largest wagon, to see if you like it or don't. If you like it, you vote with it.

He hasn't read jack shit.

[GreyICE]

Okay, BB, since I can test you... WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE LARGEST FUCKING WAGON RIGHT NOW?

WELL?

DID IT FEATURE IN THOSE NOTES AT ALL?

[GreyICE]

I see no reason to answer that unless Glork asks me to.

[GreyICE]

I see plenty of reason. I don't have a solid read on

you

, Grey, and I wouldn't mind lynching you at all. This is the kind of question that helps me get a better read on you, and the fact that it was posed by someone else helps me figure out connections. WTH?

Do you still think Glork is scum? Why/why not?

Let me be more specific: I will not answer this question unless Glork asks me to.

I am content he is town for today.

[GreyICE]

Re-reading D1....

Tebow's posts look entirely reasonable, but they don't stand out as particularly protown or scummy to me. I'm wondering if he was an alt that got dropped post-crash.

I'm not as sold on inte-town as I used to be.

It's worth noting that PeregrineV voiced support for kondi dying, but wasn't on the wagon because he wanted kondi to eat the bomb.

(Tierce, this is probably why I have a billion posts. I keep going back and reading and posting more stuff... :p)

Yay, you're coming around

[GreyICE]

oh and.

VOTE EXTENSION

[GreyICE]

I promise you Tierce, I'm town.

[GreyICE]

GreyICE, why specifically do you thing PV is protown and/or a bad play today?

He's just drifting along with the flow of the game, but in... I dunno. I could live with him being lynched, but something stops me. #94 feels town, as does #168. I don't see scum locking themselves into a third read as with #168 so cavalierly. #390 gives me warm town vibes, as it's what I feel like doing to you pretty much every time you attack me. And instead of moving on to me, he's sticking with his initial guns, even as he remains a wagon.

The package says town to me, Glork.

[GreyICE]

I sent the mod a PM.

P.S. It's called a joke

[GreyICE]

His 390 is little more than a glorified OMGUS, which is exactly what you so callously predicted BBMolla would do. :/

Yeah, but... I dunno. BBMolla warmed up to it, to show how he totally had this train of "townie" logic, asking me a question I'm not going to answer. It shows forethought and malice, feeling out if others would support his push. Very careful, very planned, very scum.

PV just yelled at you and went "Bring it." Didn't think for a second how it would play to the rest of the town.

[GreyICE]

Malee nominated you, Glork.

[GreyICE]

I am handing you scum on a silver platter. Stop voting Slandaar. Vote BBMolla. If I'm wrong about this I will fucking self vote tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

I am handing you scum on a silver platter. Stop voting Slandaar. Vote BBMolla. If I'm wrong about this I will fucking self vote tomorrow.

Stop making idiot pronouncements. That's just straight-out pointless.

BB hasn't been online at all. I am not going to power through the lynch of someone I'm good at reading just because you say so. You've seen me analyze things as town; I don't work via bullying.

What do you think of Glork's D1 lynch wagon reasoning?


Glork, we have a goddamn town bloc here (I hope). Between you, Pizza, Grey and I, we should be able to get things done today as long as it doesn't require herding cats (I'm talking with

you

, Grey and Pizza).

And screw anyone who calls me scum because I'm directing things. I just got vigged offsite for directing the town when over 4/5ths of the game had declared townreads on me, I was town; I am not going to take "you're attempting to direct the town, you must be scum" or "too townie" statements happily. -_-

You know when you pull the SAME SHIT as scum it's hard to take you seriously sometimes. That being said, you're town.

BB is pure scum, and I will NOT move my vote to Slandaar, except perhaps to stop a no lynch. Maybe not even then.

[GreyICE]

Grey is definitively protown.

He is NOT a lynch candidate.

Thank you. Now, I'm going to make one of THOSE requests. Nominate me as MVP, and I will explain why tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

Tierce: I agree. Vote trade initiated.

Vote: Slandaar

Now, I want the MVP votes. I will explain tomorrow.

To those who want me lynched: If the explanation is insufficient, then go ahead and lynch me
To those who think I'm town: I'm asking for it.

[GreyICE]

Agree with the above 100%.

[GreyICE]

I will agree because of the shitstorm in [redacted] and I don't want to go through that again.

[GreyICE]

And we got three days, so I'd like to hear a complete post (much like the one detailing my scumminess) that explains why Glork's town reads are town.

It shouldn't be hard.....

This, but more days now.

Also, LAST NIGHT I voted you for MVP based on yesterday. Needless to say, that will probably not be a repeat performance.

Has Ghostlin been replaced already?

Yeah, because tonight you're voting me for MVP. Trust me, I'm town.

[GreyICE]

Fine let's do in Slandaar.

Weirdly BBs addition made me feel slightly better about him.

[GreyICE]

Sure, although I want to hear from this theoretical replacement and get the town signing off on the MVP votes. This shit is pointless if town derps.

[GreyICE]

Slandaar, were you ever Enigma in a previous life?

[GreyICE]

Hey Glork, if Slandaar flips scum and Inte isn't hammering, flip a coin. Heads block, tails dodge.

They can't game coins.

[GreyICE]

Grey, on the EXTREME off-chance that Slandaar is town, are we still powevoting you for MVP?

Oh yes. Most definitely.

[GreyICE]

There's two scum kills and neither of them shoot Glork?

My head, it asploded.

[GreyICE]

I'm sorry, I must be the world's most conservative scum player. I kill the really townie people, the really dangerous and the people who suspect me

I don't shoot random derp bystanders for derp value

[GreyICE]

While I liked #594 in general, there was something that came out in particular. I don't know if it's just Dazzy's general playstyle, but it does give off a weird scummy vibe:

Is it really impossible for

[Tierce]

to be scum, despite her apparently pro-town appearance? What are your thoughts on this town bloc that you are suddenly a part of?

This is layering soft suspicion on me, a player she has been calling town; and why is she asking Glork's opinion on the town bloc since he has already expressed it a few times, with or without reasoning?

She is not sure how she feels about the town bloc, but... what exactly is her problem with the town bloc, again?

Paranoia is typically a town tell

[GreyICE]

Hmmm

A problem for tomorrow. Slandaar needs death, and Inte is upgrading himself rapidly.

[GreyICE]

Can we just end this day so we can get Inte tomorrow and then do in BB/Dazzy (feel free to switch that order)

[GreyICE]

Fuck europe. What does it produce? Lousy time zones and eurotrash.

[GreyICE]

Fine. Kill Dazzy first. The only read I have on that slot was lurky somewhat scum maybe. I shed no tears.

[GreyICE]

Glork, are you the serial killer? Because you're not masons with Pizzadude, and I just have a feeling.

Anyway, today is a double lynch day. Two of Inte, BB, and Dazzy will die, and one of them is Inte.

[GreyICE]

Fuck this shit. I was hoping Grey was still here, but I'm just going to claim.


I'm Slice the Shredder. I'm a race cop (Looney). I can torture someone with my chainsaw every night, and based on how they scream while I'm cutting them, I can tell what race they are.
N1, I checked pizzadudes. He was on the kondiwagon and basically unreadable to me. He was a gobbo.
N2, the dice roll told me to use my role ability and save my SPP. So I checked BBMolla. He's a TROLL.


So now I have a guilty, and I still get to self-protect tonight.~

Vote: BBMolla

HAHAHAHA

YES
YES
YES

I TOLD YOU I BRING THE GOODS

Vote: BBMolla

MVP GLORK TONIGHT AGAIN

MORE COP GOODNESS

[GreyICE]

phew im glad i didn't have to showdown and blow up your story
i'm glad you were turned out to be the invest role
btw i have a near bulletproof defense (at least in my eyes)
it'll come d4 if im still around

unless im being played ._.

Inte.

I am shooting you tonight.

If you have a bulletproof defense, claim it now.

[GreyICE]

Yates: Tierce is town. Unless you want to suggest the moderator is lying to us. That route lies madness and bad stuff.

You replaced Ghostlin?

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Fair enough.

It still feels bad.

Scum is in:

-Yates
-Inte
-Dazzy
-PV

I've already said I think PV is town, and I'm not highly likely to change that.

That means from my perspective it's 2 of Inte, Dazzy, and Yates. Meaning I want to see dancing from all 3, because a bullet is landing in that pool.

[GreyICE]

Unvote

We can't lynch yet.

Glork, logic time. We need a mass claim.

[GreyICE]

Looking at the logic, it is currently 4:2:1

When we lynch BBMolla it is either 4:1:1 or 4:2

If it is 4:2

If I shoot and hit town, we lose. Period. Therefore, the optimal strategy in this case is for both of us to shoot, Glork.

- If we hit 2 town, we lose just as hard as if we hit 1 town
- If we hit 1 town, 1 scum, we are in 2:1 LyLo
- If we hit 2 scum we win

If it is 4:1:1

Tomorrow is either 4:0 win, 3:1, or 2:1:1 if I don't shoot. If I shoot it could be anywhere from 3:0 win to 1:1:1. If we both shoot, it COULD be 1:1, but chances are we will hit 2:1 LyLo.


My feeling is that the optimal strategy is for us both to fire tonight. This will make today effectively a TRIPLE lynch day.

Vote count

(7 players alive = 4 to lynch)
(2) BBmolla – inte, Glork

Not voting

: BBmolla, Dazzy, GreyICE, PeregrineV, Yates

Deadline

: Tuesday 24 April 16:00 CET

[GreyICE]

I assume molla is the SK cause your invest reveals troll instead of gobbo, which we know for sure is the race of scum because of slandaar's flip

It's only speculation tho

You mean.

Slandaar's

Godfather flip

And he claimed RACE COP?

That's why Glork's claim is 98% believable (the 2% is literally from the fact he's good enough to fake this, anyone else in this game would be 100%).

Slaandar flipped

Gobbo GODFATHER

A race cop makes perfect sense if the Godfather is the same race as everyone else.

I, however, want BBMolla's claim.

[GreyICE]

Okay, claim order. Glork, vet this:

BBMolla
Inte
Dazzy
PeregrineV (deference to Glork's feelings here)
Yates
Me

Glork just claimed.

This wash with you Glork?

[GreyICE]

Sigh.

I pretty much figured out slandaar was scum because I had JUST played a game with him before the crash. His playstyle was far too similar to it before for me to ignore.

See page 3 day 1

Since nobody even pair attention to what I said, I planned to keep quiet about my meta reference until further in the game for it to be more useful

Unluckily he slipped or something and u guys caught on

Grey have you ever bussed a teammate page 3 day one? It's highly unlikely seeing as at that time there was no suspicion on him

In answer to the bussing, yes, yes, yes.

However:

Inte Day 1, page 3:
i would not be upset at a kondi lynch

Why do you prefer a Ghostlin lynch over a kondi lynch, inte?

i dont like michigan

that being said, only reason id be ok with a kondi lynch is because (s?)he is purposely being confusing

slandaar's one post is suspect

fair enough.

---
he has had one post, and it was a heart striking one at that. he left it up to the rest of the townies to interpret exactly what he means and thats what scum does, incite chaos.

my vote is rvs because i dont have anywhere else significant to put it, so :p

kondi has been too difficult to read at all so far. i am starting to develop reads on people n such and its not like im screaming to lynch him.

confusion leads to the dark side



----

Calling your teammates scummy without trying to get them lynched is called "distancing"

And it's fairly typical scumplay.

[GreyICE]

If you're vanilla, how did you change everyone's position?

[GreyICE]

Hmmmm.

Nah, this can wait until after mass claim.

Everyone should unvote though.

[GreyICE]

And that explains one of the odder points of this entire game.

[GreyICE]

Yeah.

[GreyICE]

Still waiting on Dazzy.

I think I have a plan that wins us the game unless one of {Glork, GreyICE} is scum. Which, let's be honest... is highly unlikely.

Does it work if BB flips town?

[GreyICE]

I'm a Troll Glork. I checked my role PM.

[GreyICE]

Hey here's a random idea. I'm town, and a Troll. Like, the race, not the internet kind.

[GreyICE]

Meh, BB flips town, and I'm flipping a coin on vigging you for that post.

[GreyICE]

Glork, I am going to spend the entire post-game mocking you if you're town.

Literally.
The.
Entire.
Post.
Game.

[GreyICE]

You could play the game of mafia!

What in all of creation would make you think I'm scum with BBMolla? ANYTHING?!?

And moreover, why would I defend a serial killer as scum? Yeah, that's smart. Defend the guy whose probably bulletproof and I need lynched AND claim scum so he can know exactly who to shoot if he needs to crosskill.

Why would I claim this as his scumbuddy?

You know what? Whatever. If BBMolla flips scum, go ahead and shoot me. It just means that the game is riding on me making the right shot, because you've chosen to make the wrong one. And frankly, I'm fine with that.

[GreyICE]

Father Nurgle, the Chaos God of Disease, one of the four great Chaos Gods. Yes, yes, yes. I know who Nurgle is.

[GreyICE]

Now the right play at the moment is pretty simple where I'm sitting. We need 2/3 of the lynches to hit scum for this to be a win. Thus

Dazzy is either scum who shot Majiffy for a great fakeclaim, or town. This is an easy fix. Scum busdriver is stupid in this sort of game. Therefore:

I shoot Dazzy tonight. Dazzy drives herself with our real target. If she can't do that, she's dead. So either we have one scum death, or have one confirmed role (and if there's a scum busdriver we lose anyway)

Since that leaves us with a pool of 4 targets, of which if Dazzy is scum two are scum, and if Dazzy is town 3 are scum, we're pretty much set. Either:

We have 3 shots into a pool of 4 players with 3 scum in it that we need to hit two to be correct OR
We have 2 shots into a pool of 4 players with 2 scum in it that we need to hit one to be correct

Obviously this goes down the drain if you're scum, but c'est la vie. If I have to count on one town read this game, it'll be you.

[GreyICE]

Wow, it's like that's exactly what I did after the rush of 'omg I was right about BBMolla' ended.

And yes, I forgot I was a troll. It seriously seemed unimportant when I read it.

But I tell you what. You called bullshit on my vig status. I'll vig you tonight. How's that sound? Then if it's bullshit, welp.

[GreyICE]

It's like there's an order to this mass claim.

[GreyICE]

It honestly looks like grey is trying to derail the wagon.

Does that mean you think PV is town? (at greyice)

See, here's the thing, Inte.

Yesterday you accused me of trying to derail the PV wagon onto BBMolla.

Today you're saying that you think BBMolla is scummy, and have forgotten about PV.

If BBMolla isn't playing to his town meta, while PV is (apparently) irrelevant, why were you casting suspicion on me for trying to flip a wagon from a null read to a scum read?

[GreyICE]

4/10 see me after class for your attempt. It wasn't confirmed that BBmolla isn't town till his reaction to Glorks result.

The circumstances now are far different

Go back and try to try to nitpick more, desperate scum

It isn't confirmed that someone isn't town until they flip.

The fact of the matter is yesterday you wanted me lynched for distracting from PV for pushing BB, today BB was reacting "scummily" although his reaction would be pretty much what I expect if I found out I was a secret miller (what the fuck is this shit, basically). And we find out that you have lots of experience with him. Despite this, I can't find an instance of you really mentioning him or anything else.

You know what? I'm shooting Inte tonight if he doesn't get lynched, Glork you play the redirect game with Dazzy (I'd prefer it to be at least a tad random so scum can't backtrack shoot dazzy). I want this mofo dead.

[GreyICE]

The part where you suggest lynching town.

[GreyICE]

Yates, sadly I have a town read on you, because your idiocy is literally unrivaled here. The page you linked to says flavor cop results are ambiguous, and you're using it to lecture GLORK?

I'm town, and you're a mouthbreathing retard. My god, why would I claim to save a scumbuddy when scum are going to be shooting for scum tonight if we mislynch? There's literally no gain at all. None.

I claimed because I'm town. All my flavor says about the matter is that gobbos look tasty, but Grutto the Great said not to eat during playtime.

And you can take that however the fuck you like, I'm done trying to fucking argue flavor.

[GreyICE]

Okay I changed my mind. I looked up trolls in blood bowl. Trolls are heavies who can be hired by Orc and GOBLIN teams.

http://bbowl.wikia.com/wiki/Trolls

Now I'm done discussing flavor, because the tldr is that trolls are likely town.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, I'm tired of this shit

1) Fart the Flatulent
2) 1-shot reflexive roleblocker (I can roleblock everyone who targets me once per game). Flavor is a cloud of... well, Fart the Flatulent. You work it out
3) Troll
4) Thrower>Blitzer
5) Used reflexive roleblocker N2.
6) Nominated Glork night 1, nominated no one night 2 (I wanted it).

There is a breadcrumb of the reflexive roleblocker ability, it's not too subtle (or at least it's not supposed to be)

[GreyICE]

Doesnt say it is, but I can ask. Did you catch my breadcrumb, or do I need to be more obvious?

[GreyICE]

Yeah, Yates is scum, and this is his last hope of winning.

[GreyICE]

What is this I don't even

[GreyICE]

Finally.

OK, my stats.

1) Their name- Turd the Terrible
2) Their role-Troll
3) Their race-Troll
4) Their position- was blitzer now catcher
5) Any actions they have taken day or night- N1 vig on inte (BLINDSIDED)
6) Their MVP votes on both nights- N1 Glork, N2 Tierce

I'm an odd-night vig, I eat people.

N1 I targeted inte because he didn't do anything day1. Since he's still alive, and I was BLINDSIDED, I don't know if I failed or was redirected.

I'll check back, but need to do some paid work for a bit.

GLORK

THERE ARE NOT THREE TROLLS IN THIS GAME GLORK

[GreyICE]

You know what, GreyICE? I'm willing to compromise.

You down with lynching PV?

You say magic words

[GreyICE]

Glork.

I want to shoot Inte if you're not going to.

If Dazzy is using the busdrive as a protect, then you call your shot and she drives one of you/herself with someone else. Otherwise we do the redirect-vig thing.

[GreyICE]

I'm a vigilante. I'm counterclaiming you.

[GreyICE]

Who has a counterclaim?

[GreyICE]

100% agree. I lost a game of quack multiball that was unloseable because one of the doctors decided to protect scum over confirmed town.

[GreyICE]

Grey, any word from the mod on whether your flavor is sent/shared?

Nope.

And Glork... I'm town. You know this.

[GreyICE]

Um, Glork.

I'm shooting Inte tonight.

So dazzy better not flop Inte with anyone, because he is dying. He is not town, Glork.

Your plan requires us to basically sacrifice two extra lynches for no gain. Fuck this plan.

[GreyICE]

Alternative plan:

I shoot Inte
You shoot BBmolla

Since this is turning into a 2v2, we'll have one flip from both sides.

Scum can only kill one person. We go into tomorrow with 3 flips, with either you or dazzy alive, worst case scenario.

[GreyICE]

Dazzy flops one of Glork/Dazzy with one of GreyICE/Yates here in my plan. Should make the kill very hard to aim.

[GreyICE]

And my plan doesn't require us to sacrifice any KILLS. (NOT LYNCHES. KILLS.)

Beacuse YOU and I will

BOTH BE ALIVE IN 5P LYLO. IF WE MISLYNCH, WE BOTH KILL ON NIGHT FOUR.

Jesus christ, if you're town you are literally the stupidest motherfucker in the world, Grey. THINK for ONE GODDAMNED SECOND.

How the fuck does Dazzy dying help us?

Fine. You know what? Fuck it. I'll follow your stupid plan, you dodge tonight, I'll give you SPP, and I'll powervote Inte first thing tomorrow. But if you think I'm wasting one more second answering moron questions, diaf.

[GreyICE]

vote:pv

[GreyICE]

How was your first experience as serial killer?

[GreyICE]

And Grey, if you're town and you hold your kill and the scums gambit and DO manage to kill you tonight, then it's confirmed that Yates/inte are the scums and we'll just win outright anyway.

There is literally not ONE scenario you can name where we're not likely to win. I fucking DARE you to find one. Absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO is if you/BB are the scums and take a massive, giant fucking retarded gamble tonight and try for a kill on inte/Yates.

BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PUSHING FOR, WHICH IS DOING AN EXCELLENT JOB OF CONVINCING ME THAT YOU ARE SCUM.

If you shoot BBMolla tonight, and I shoot Inte tonight, then HOW THE FUCK COULD THE PLAN GO WRONG?

We'd get both flipped. Even if me and BB were scum, YOU'D be the one shooting BB, and that'd be that.

But no, I'm going to have to sit through some pontificating LyLo tomorrow instead of fucking turbo lynching Yates like I want to.

I swear unto fucking god, I will not post at all tomorrow. Period.

[GreyICE]

Yeah there's not a vig, a bomb-vig, a mechanic that hands out vigs, and 2 scum night kills.

[GreyICE]

What, kill me, flip me troll, and then try and explain that in LyLo tomorrow?

Nevermind the Dazzy redirects that make it as like as not that the scumteam kills themselves if they try that?

Are you always this retarded Yates?

[GreyICE]

No, you know what, fuck it.

Dazzy, redirect one of YOURSELF and BB to Inte and Yates.

Bring it on motherfucker.

Kill me.

I fucking dare you.

Kill me.

[GreyICE]

Dazzy: Redirect one of yourself and BB to Inte/Yates tonight

Come on motherfucker, do it.

Kill me.

Put me out of my fucking misery.

Do it Dazzy

Come on motherfucker, try it.

Bring it on.

[GreyICE]

Good thing I did.

[GreyICE]

I want to die.

I want to die and laugh in your face and Yates face when I flip town.

My bah post will be a mile of LOL until I hit the character limit on posts.

[GreyICE]

Dazzy - listen to me. You don't want to die. Having yourself in the redirect pool means you have a very good chance of surviving. You want me to die. I'm a much better person to have scum kill. Glork has his pants wired firmly to his head, Yates is scum and a fucking two year old. Don't follow Glork's 'Plan Pants.'" Save yourself. Let me die. I want to die.

[GreyICE]

Wait your turn. There will be room on the lynching platform in the morning.

Are you sad you won't be able to safely kill Dazzy if she does that, scumbag? Are you sad that you would have to kill me, and thus negate all of your stupid arguments?

Come on Dazzy, it's fucking obvious. The plan involves you dying. You're town. You don't know I'm town. Leave me unprotected. Let me die.

[GreyICE]

So your plan involves us losing if he's a troll in Gobbos of Nurgle.

Your plan is stupid.

[GreyICE]

This last minute flailing is hilarious yet a bit painful to watch - like a sword swallower with hiccups.

I also fail to understand what you are trying to accomplish here. When PV flips scum-Troll the jig is up, dude.

PE: what Glork just said.

Oh dear, flailing.

What is it, Yates, what's my scum motive for asking to be unprotected?

OH THERE IS NONE

YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SHOOT ME TONIGHT

COME ON YATES, BRING IT ON

COME ON YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER

DAZZY DO NOT REDIRECT ME TO ANYONE.

ALSO SINCE GLORK IS PANTS, I'M SHOOTING INTE TONIGHT IF PV FLIPS GROUP SCUM.

[GreyICE]

Lovely.

So it's BBMolla/Yates.

Vote: No Lynch

[GreyICE]

Dazzy, don't MVP vote.

I'll MVP you tonight, and be confirmed town then.

[GreyICE]

Hey Yates, thanks for claiming scum.

Honestly, you tried to get us to lynch in 2:1:1, you can't recover from that situation.

[GreyICE]

Yates.

We're no lynching today.

It's literally the only path to town victory.

Have fun with BBMolla tonight.

[GreyICE]

Yes Yates, I'm sure that was your motive for voting in 2:1:1. To, instead of taking the only path to town victory, give me the win after screaming at me all of yesterday.

BB, you know I'm town, you know Yates is scum, from the fact that you're alive, you're the serial killer. If I am alive tomorrow, I will vote for YOU, not Yates.

Dazzy will probably do the same.

So, well, your bulletproof is PROBABLY limited since this is a mini, and you lost a charge of it, and, well... Yates is obviously scum.

Have fun with each other, you two.

Dazzy, do what you want, but odds are BB/Yates are crosskilling. Do with that as you will.

[GreyICE]

You've played with me as town, BB.

I had an honest scumread on you, and I pushed it. Now either I just happened to select the serial killer out of every player in the game to push my scumread on, with PV and Slandaar not helping me (when scum would want to lynch you above everything), and then there's the timestamps:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3938403

Now, BBMolla, why, as scum, would I ever claim to save your ass, since I KNOW FOR A FACT trolls are scum?

I wouldn't. I'd let the town lynch the serial killer, and ride being confirmed town all the way to the bank. You know that.

So, make your shot. But remember, Yates knows its you, and Dazzy could swing either way between me and Yates.

Yates still thinks it might be me. It's running through his head right now. "What if it's GreyICE? What if this is all an act."

So, make your shot. Choose wisely.

[GreyICE]

I may have shot, dodged, or taken no action at all.

[GreyICE]

Nooooppppeeee

Because we're no lynching today.

Today is called Chicken, BB.

Glork claimed he was shooting you last night if PV flipped team scum.
Glork did not dodge.
Glork therefore shot you, BBMolla.

So how many charges are left on that bulletproof vest anyway? I can't believe with the amount of shots floating around the moderator would make scum full bulletproof, that just seems retarded (THEN AGAIN THIS SETUP ALREADY IS RETARDED SO WELL ETC).

How confident are you feeling in its nice warm embrace tonight, BB?

Yates can do simple math. Glork shot you, therefore you = scum. Why do you think he speed voted you? He needs you dead.

And BB? If Dazzy is dead tomorrow and Yates is still alive, I'm helping him win by voting you in LyLo.

And don't count on me being dead.

[GreyICE]

@Dazzy: Glork obviously used his MVP, since he was going to get another one. He obviously shot, and I see no reason for him to NOT shoot BB just as he claimed.

Frankly I don't see why we're over-discussing this. We're not lynching today. Scum have all the facts, Yates and BB can do what they want now.

Last post of the day.

[GreyICE]

Hmm.

Interesting proposition.

However, the odds are somewhat less than 50/50.

If you assume D, T, S, where D is Dazzy, T is town, and S is scum:

A) Switch D/S
B) Switch D/T
C) Switch S/T

The scum cases are:
1) Shoot D
2) Shoot T

A1: Town win
A2: Scum win
B1/2: Scum win
C1: Scum Win
C2: Town win

This gives us a 2/6 (or 33%) chance of winning. Obviously this is assuming your reads are null, since case B (switch yourself with town) is the nightmare scenario. However, I have no intention of revealing whether I have my MVP left, and could still dodge, which puts this case back to... hmmmmm

Okay.

Unvote

I'm willing to explore this line of thinking.

IAC I recommend BB, since he's clearly bulletproof, while I kinda doubt Yates is.

[GreyICE]

Okay, in that case let me add a simple proposal to this plan.

I'll nominate you for MVP. Yates nominates me. You nominate no one. Scum get no MVP votes. That way tomorrow is the world's shortest day - if you're MVP, Yates, if not, me. That way Yates had to take the shot instead

[GreyICE]

A problem with your objection, oh mafia member. Glork already confirmed you can't use power roles the same night you use MVP powers. So if I dodge, I can't kill anyone. And if no one dies, well, if Dazzy is the MVP she'll know I'm town. If she doesn't, she knows I'm scum. Is simple, yes?

[GreyICE]

Because BBMolla is bulletproof, Yates.

We've been over this about 100 zillion times so far. Bulletproof scum, or bulletproof SK. Hmmmm

[GreyICE]

Then don't MVP vote.

But if Dazzy gets MVPed, then I'm confirmed town tomorrow. So don't even bother to fucking play that game.

[GreyICE]

BB, scum can't MVP vote.

If we agree that I MVP vote Dazzy, Dazzy MVPs no one, and Yates MVPs no one, then it makes life very easy, yes?

[GreyICE]

Okay, lets do this thing.

Vote: BBMolla

[GreyICE]

You won't be a helper? No skin off my nose.

Vote: Yates

BB, support this, because I'll still lynch you over him tomorrow. And don't count on me dying.

[GreyICE]

Sure. I'm the guy who was voted MVP.

It helps~

[GreyICE]

Yates, you are so fucking obvious.

Again, your theory is either that as scum, I claimed to save the serial killer when scum would need him lynched, or that as the SK I claimed to save scum when I get endgamed by them just as easy as anyone else and would have no reason to care if they died.

Everyone thought I was definitely town, so why would either of those scenarios make sense?

[GreyICE]

Prodded -_-

ASAP hasn't happened.

Sooooo

[GreyICE]

I literally don't care anymore.

Vote: No Lynch

[GreyICE]

Yates, you really think you're selling BBMolla on that crap?

[GreyICE]

So, which one of you killed Dazzy?

[GreyICE]

-_-

Please stop.

I actually KNOW my win condition. Like... it's in my role PM. What are you actually trying to sell me on, the idea that scum is Yates and... ???

[GreyICE]

I swear unto god I will vote you and give the win to yates if you keep irritating me like this.

[GreyICE]

Now seriously, one of you clearly killed Dazzy. Unless you both did, at which point fuck you both.

[GreyICE]

-_-

[GreyICE]

I swear unto god, BBMolla has been obvscum for days.

Vote: Yates

Fuck you Yates.

This was a popularity contest, and I hate you.

[GreyICE]

Hmmm, should I do the right thing and shoot for the 0.05% chance that we win this.

Or fuck Yates over and make him lose?

[GreyICE]

Let's see.

On the one hand, Yates is an irritating bastard who sucks like an industrial vacuum cleaner.

On the other hand this is probably technically playing against my win condition.

[GreyICE]

On the third hand, BBMolla is probably bulletproof, and thus probably the evil fucker who shot Dazzy.

Lets make this simple. I'm voting for whichever one of you who shot Dazzy. If your next post contains any variant of the words "I'm town" that's you.

Unvote

[GreyICE]

I don't hate you.

Yates can blow me.

[GreyICE]

Also, where were the extra kills coming from if there was no SK?

[GreyICE]

Sooooo, your scumteam had two kills.

-_-

Yeah, the town has NEVER won when the scumteam gets a consistant two kills a night.

I'm actually shocked we came this close.

Yates can fucking blow me.

[GreyICE]

YATES

I WANT A HAT EATING VIDEO

NOW YATES

[GreyICE]

Wait, Dazzy redirected your vig off obvscum BB?

That's how he survived?

Welp, I think I did good. Replaced in, tunneled scum, figured out who most of the town was, I assume my bulletproof ate a night kill. Okay, I vigged Inte, but this was under the assumption BBMolla would be dead, so well.

[GreyICE]

Also.

Just for the record.

Secret miller roles who don't know they're millers?

That's bastard moderation, right there.

[GreyICE]

Also, Grey, this is why you should have just lynched the cop-investigated Troll. No fucking clue what you were thinking, but regardless of your alignment, going after BBMolla should have been the play.

I WAS A TROLL:

Alright!

Brilliant! Below is your role-PM (your predecessor nominated Glork N1) and you are free to post in the thread as soon as I've made an announcement of the replacing (which will be within minutes from this PM:s time stamp):

Role-PM

Name:

Fart the Flatulent

Fluff:

Whadda dat smell? Dinnertime? Awww dose kute green gobbo wanna play. Dey look kinda tasty but Grutto da Great once told you not to eat during play. Musta remember dat.

Team:

Grutto’s Gangsta’s

Role:

Troll

Race:

Troll

Ability:

•

One shot bullet proof:

Being strong has it’s advantages. The first attempt to night kill you will fail, however being stupid makes you unaware of the attempt.
•

Voting:

You all know how this work.
•

Nominate:

Who should get the MVP-award each day cycle (see the rules what effects this has).

Position:

thrower

Win condition:

You win when all the threats against Grutto’s Gangsta’s have been eliminated.

LOOK

RACE

TROLL

YOU WANT ME TO LIE TO THE TOWN AND GO ALONG WITH AN INVESTIGATION THAT MIGHT GET TOWN LYNCHED FOLLOWED BY YOU, WHO WAS OBVIOUS TOWN, BEING LYNCHED?

[GreyICE]

TROLLS ARE TYPICALLY ALIGNED WITH GOBLINS IN BLOOD BOWL
ONCE I CHECKED MY ROLE PM AND STARTED CALCULATING IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS:

Town - Trolls, goblins
Scum - Evil shit

That way the flavor cop was ambiguous, while still getting useful results.

BUT NOPE
IT WAS JUST A COP
I JUST WASN'T TOLD I WAS A MILLER

[GreyICE]

Frankly, the fact the town lost with only one mislynch should explain exactly why this setup was an example of horrible design and should be burned at the stake.

[GreyICE]

Glork I was One-Shot BP that's probably where your vig went.

Why I was One-Shot BP is beyond me.

So you were the one shot BP modified Serial Killer who happened to be aligned with the mafia.

NOPE

THIS GAME NEVER HAPPENED

[GreyICE]

I can't believe we worked through all the goddamn VIs that we had
To determine exactly the scum team with a single solitary mislynch
And lost because we couldn't understand the MECHANICS FROM THE BLACK LAGOON

[GreyICE]

Scum literally had the best case scenario happen to them besides getting lynched.

I think I was the only BP, we managed to get lucky with our extra kill n1, as well as getting lucky with our extra kill n2. Then I get vigged, but I'm the BP'd member so it doesn't go through.

NO

THE BEST CASE SCENARIO INVOLVES MORE THAN ONE TOWN LYNCH

[GreyICE]

Seriously.

Basic principles of game design insist that the town is not in LyLo after the FIRST MISLYNCH

[GreyICE]

"Unpreditably lucky" isn't a factor.

ANY game in which the town mislynches D1 (standard) then lynches correctly D2, D3, and vigges the last scum N3...

should NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER,

EVER

lose. Ever.

Yeah, this.

It's not like we even misvigged much. I vigged Inte based on the idea that BBMolla was going to die, otherwise I would have vigged BBMolla.

[GreyICE]

grey you should've saved the troll information till after it was a perceived mislynch
i prob would of believed it more if bbmolla flipped town cause i wasn't gonna start doubting glork with his cop claim, it was too believable

Look at it from my perspective.

You have information that the lynch, IN LYLO that you are about to undertake may be on town.

Do you claim said information, y/n?

Yes, it turned out to be bad to claim, but I still don't fucking understand why any townie in their right mind would do ANYTHING other than claim it right then and there.

[GreyICE]

also, idk why yall just didnt lynch bbmolla and gamble it the last night with dazzy yaetes and grey
i told you he was obvscum

Yates wouldn't vote BBMolla.

[GreyICE]

On other shit that COMPLETELY MISTIFIES ME.

Why would Yates vote BBMolla, as town, believing 100% he was throwing the game away and letting me win
Then insist on no lynching when a plan was reached where we could lynch BBMolla and the town could still win

This makes no fucking sense. At all.

I swear unto god after that moment he was obvious fucking scum, and I still don't understand it. He played completely against his win condition, then when the same decision was faced, NOT against his win condition, he decided against it.

There was like... no town motive there.

[GreyICE]

shoulda been at least an instant indicator that i knew what i was talking about, and wasn't trying to mislead when i flipped town

WELL AT THAT POINT BBMOLLA WAS OBVSCUM
BUT THE PROBLEM WAS THE SERIAL KILLER
WHO DIDN'T EXIST, BUT THE OTHER OPTION WAS SCUM HAD TWO NIGHT KILLS
WHICH IS LIKE... FUCKING RETARDED AND TERRIBLE DESIGN AND HORRIBLE BEYOND ALL BELIEF

[GreyICE]

Why?

I mean look at the flavor. Goblins are allied with trolls in blood bowl. It makes perfect sense for there to be trolls on a goblin team.

I mean how the fuck am I going to realize I'm a secret miller?

[GreyICE]

Oh someone did catch it!

The answer was in my role - 1-shot bulletproof. If figured that the breadcrumb was hidden enough that it looked legit but sloppy enough one of the three scum would catch it.

Since I was pretty sure BB was scum and that would leave me obvtown when he flipped plus the breadcrumb, I figured I could draw a kill and then fuck with the scumteam when the kill on the breadcrumbed doctor failed.

[GreyICE]

So much hate in the deadthread.

Why would a SK ever claim to save scum or visa versa?

No one ever explained that. I was fucking obvious town, and that's not just 'in my opinion.'

Oh well fucktarded game was fucktarded. Scum having two kills a night is insane.

[GreyICE]

Wait.

Wait.

PV was 1-shot bulletproof too.

SO THE TOWN GETTING VIG SHOTS WAS A TOTALLY WORTHLESS WASTE OF TIME THAT WOULD ONLY MK TOWNIES AND THE ENTIRE MVP MECHANIC WAS A SICK JOKE.

This is on my top 5 worst game lists. Ever.

[GreyICE]

Like, let's review:

Flavor cop. Gets a good guilty on two players. Gets false inno on one, gets false guilty on secret miller.

Irritating bomb - might vig someone. But scum were Bulletproof anyway

Bus driver - weaker, since scum couldn't die to night kills.

1-shot bulletproof secret miller - this isn't the scummiest role claim IN THE HISTORY OF EVER

MVP mechanic that wouldn't get off the ground until town lynched scum. Didn't let you vig scum anyway.

Versus:

Scum godfather
Scum bulletproof vigilante
Scum bulletproof

-_-

This is as bad as the Tarhalindur game with the 2 lightnig rod scum-specific PGOs.

[GreyICE]

Yes Slandaar, we thought you were town all along.

I've won despite utter nonsense setups, but when the setup defeats the opponent, it needs to be stated.

[GreyICE]

I WAS A TROLL

This is where the game broke. It looked like we had two killers. We had two trolls. The math was easy. Why in the fuck would there be a

good

troll?

Why would scum claim to save the serial killer?
Why would the serial killer claim to save scum?

I WAS OBVIOUSLY TOWN!

Like... it's insane. You never answered this once during the course of the game.

Not that it makes any difference for the last day, because we had no sane way of knowing there wasn't a fucking SK, but my god Yates.

[GreyICE]

No that's totes cool.

Glork finds and lynches two scums and wants to vig the other, but his vig for the win disappears because Dazzy is a fucking derp, and a fucking mini where scum accidentally get two nightkills every night even though they're herping it up completely.


Goddammit I hate mafia right now.

Definitely not one of my better games.

I've never had a non-standard role before, and the bus-driver was an interesting one. Glork, I didn't save BB.

It's dumb because by the end I saw the one kill on N4 and was like "Maybe there are 3 town left...". But numberwise and kill wise it just didn't add up for me. Sorry for the shitty endgame play.

Well played guys.

You really did fine with it, when all is said and done.

We just got outplayed by the moderator. It's really hard to beat modscum.

[GreyICE]

I WAS OBVIOUSLY TOWN!

Dude, you were a Troll. THIS is what broke the game. You sounded to me like caught scum trying to flail their way to victory by getting me to lynch the sk over you.

Think about it this way, once you claimed Troll you may as well have said "I'm mafia but I win with Town." Nothing after that mattered to me. You were self-confirmed scum. Oh well.

Buttttt whhyyyyyyyy

Why would scum ever claim something incriminating? It makes noooooo seennnseee. And how was I scum with BBMolla? We'd have endgamed you guys ages ago.

GOD

IT MAKES NO SENSE

WHY DOES AN SK TRY TO SAVE SCUM FROM BEING LYNCHED?

BRAAAINNNNSSSS

[GreyICE]

Grey, it does make sense for you to come out as a troll of you're the other groupscum and BB were a bulletproof SK. Because you could be night killed and he could not. That's why most of the town wound up suspecting you.

So I'd come out to save a bulletproof SK from lynch - the same bulletproof SK I would NEED to lynch to end the game.

What is this I don't even

[GreyICE]

Think about it. Grey's best chance of victory, if he were actually SK, is to have the scum [bb] kill a Townie while he kills the other Townie. If he's BP, he just won the game.

But why do I care if scum is lynched if I'm SK?

If I'm BP, then whatever, there was two scum left alive, they would always get another kill, so I don't need em. You lynch two scum in a row, we'd still be in LyLo, and I can win LyLo.

If I'm scum, then we need to lynch the SK to win, I'd never interrupt that.

THE ONLY EXPLANATION THAT MAKES SENSE IS I'M TOWN

EVERYTHING ELSE INVOLVES STUPID LOGIC

[GreyICE]

If you are the SK, you need ONE of the scum to die.

So? Why stick my neck out to prevent scum from being lynched? It's fucking retarded.

You honestly should have realized I was obvtown.

[GreyICE]

Grey, it does make sense for you to come out as a troll of you're the other groupscum and BB were a bulletproof SK. Because you could be night killed and he could not. That's why most of the town wound up suspecting you.

So I'd come out to save a bulletproof SK from lynch - the same bulletproof SK I would NEED to lynch to end the game.

What is this I don't even

No, the BP thing was a hindsight matter. At the time, all we knew was that BB was a troll.


There were 7 alive. Lynch BB, 1 nightkill, 5 alive. You/Pere get lynched, we win.
Lynch townie, you kill BB, BB kills elsewhere, 4 alive. You/Pere win.

That was the logic behind claiming. You were going for a home run ball by throwing a monkey wrench into the "Lynch BB, no questions asked" plan.

So all this revolved around there being a 4 man scumteam, since SLANDAAR HAD ALREADY FLIPPED SCUM.

[GreyICE]

Also my god
Inte was alive
Like... if I were scum
Inte would be the easiest mislynch ever

[GreyICE]

Uh. No? It revolved around a Slaandar/PereV/GreyICE scumgroup, with BBMolla as the SK.

I thought you were trying to get us to lynch a townie (inte) so that you could win with 2 scums out of 4 players alive after N3.

Really?

Nah.

If you want to see my serial killer play, look up Marketplace Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17937

It's a very subtle variation on my 'lynch everyone' strategy that I call LYNCH ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE.

SK sacrificing themselves to save scum....

[GreyICE]

Oooh.

Scum still punt it to someone else though.

So useless.

[GreyICE]

Mod thoughts

I'm kind of surprised the town didn't win this one. In my eyes the following things are the reasons for it:

• Glork blocking instead of dodging:
  Here town had a perfect possibility to keep a townie player alive
  
  Not following through on the troll find:
  Ok, you have a race cop, and that player is in general believed to be townie. A player is found to be troll. A troll is later on lynched and shows up as scum, after a gobbo godfather is found. Lynching trolls should then be the logical step here. (Yes there is a troll miller, something that GreyICE speculated on in when town was claiming but didn't follow through on).
  
• Vigging inte:
  Again a block instead of a dodge. And it seemed to be done more due to frustration than actual belief of inte being scum
  
• Lucky troll scums:
  The trolls achieved to eat two days in a row which was very lucky, at least the one where inte was switching positions around.

Setup balance thoughts

I can agree on the one shot bulet proof might have been a bit over the top. However the game has been tried before on another forum and I think it actually is relatively balanced.

• Bomb
  is there, not in first place to blow someone up but to give town more things to assess each other by. It is very likely that bomb will be tossed around, but sooner or later someone townie will say okay, I'll hold the bomb until we agree upon who we should give it to.
  
• Fanatic busdriver
  is likley to mess with night kills (and it did too night one, well played Dazzy!), and correctly used it might even backfire on the scum team
  
• SPP's:
  Townie players will be able to defend themselves with DODGES.
  
• Pogo stick:
  Could also be used to find scums lying (It was used a bit like that), plus perhaps someone will draw the conclusion that who disappears (is eaten) might have to do with there position
  
• My view of claim fest:
  These should be harmful to both sides and I think it was too.
  
• Outgessing the mod:
  This community needs to learn that outguessing mods is not the right way to go. Scum hunting is! And this last item is kind of also what lead the town to there doom. In an X-men mafia I played the scums were regular X-men and not the bad guys. I had fun playing that (as mafia) but we were always worried of what to claim, what if someone knew that this or that x-man was on the dark side in this setting. And all our powers were also closely conected to our X-man's abilities. I liked that, and tried to do something similar here.

And finally, this is a gobbo team we're talking about. In blood bowl they are mostly used for comic relief, soething I've tried to interpret into the setup, and I am fairly satisfied. I had a lot of fun modding this and I hope you enjoyed it too.

First, the Inte shot was because I was certain that if there was two scum it was Inte/BBMolla at that point. And Glork was shooting Inte. If you'd said that the SCUM WERE ALL 1-SHOT BULLETPROOF then I'd have shot BB too.

Also when there have been TWO FUCKING KILLS EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and no townie has claimed vigilante, then the ONLY FUCKING LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that there's a serial killer, because otherwise the moderator put in a scum vigilante. WHICH WOULD BE BATSHIT INSANE. We gave scum a two-shot vigilante in a super-high power large theme game with bloody double days, and most everyone agreed it possibly overpowered the scum team (the role dying day 1 was probably the only reason the town won).

Not telling me I was a miller is bastard modding, and your lame excuse of "trolls are stupid" that you PMed to me was a ridiculous excuse for a terrible moderating decision.

Also, you seem to ignore the fact that 10:3 Vanilla IS NOT A FUCKING BALANCED GAME. Town need power roles to win in 10:3, because you're not getting there in a town full of VTs. Balancing the scum power and the town power so they're equal GUARANTEES A TOWN LOSS. Lemme guess. Scum handily won the other time this setup was run too, right?

You thinking this setup was acceptable means that, quite frankly, I'm never playing in another one of your games.

I'm not being nice here, but I'm being honest. This setup was inexcusably bad for quite a few reasons, and you should LEARN FROM THIS, not stick your fingers in your ears and go "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

[GreyICE]

P.S. Jokes are funny when you are laughing with your players, not laughing at them. These jokes were funny in a "haha, look, I got him to counterclaim the cop because I didn't tell him there was a miller" and "haha, look, they think there's a serial killer because the scum got two night kills" way. That's laughing AT your players.

It really wasn't at all fucking funny for the players dealing with this shit.

[GreyICE]

[quote="In post 1153, Johoohno"][/quote]
A balanced game is one where, if run many times, would have a roughly equal chance of both sides winning (multiball a tad different, but I hate it, so). Roughly 40-60% range for town victory is probably fine.

An 11:2 is a balanced game for instance. 10:3 removes 1 townie, and adds 1 scum. Therefore, you need at least a way that a townie can trade for a scum through power roles, and at least a way to save one townie's life.

In this, your game failed. While a cop can possibly trade for one scum, the existence of the secret miller makes that MUCH harder. It's more likely that the town will trade 3 members for 1 scum (the cop, the secret miller, and another night kill after you lynch the miller).

The vig shots had no goddamn way of ever trading for a scum. With two bulletproofs, all they did was kill townies. That's... err... terrible. Very terrible.

Meanwhile the scum had a method of WEEDING OUT ADDITIONAL TOWNIES.
In other words, if we look at a 11:2 as balanced, compared to your game:

- There was one more scumteam member
- There was one less town member
- There was no reliable way to save town lives (blocks were by definition unreliable, bus driver same (it traded one town for... another town, scum could deflect shots with their bulletproof)
- The only way for a townie to trade with scum was tainted by the secret miller AND a scum godfather.
- The scum had methods of removing additional townies (so already down one town from 11, your scum had methods of removing more townies).

So, your game was approximately as balanced as maybe, say, an 8:2. Town has never won a 10:2 btw.

[GreyICE]

No. There are no scummies deserved here. At all. Ever.

[GreyICE]

This is going down in history with Walking dead and the Serial Killer who was town until LyLo.

Seriously.