Mini 1313: Blood Bowl Mafia (Game over)

[Tierce]

Come back here, Glork. You know this has to be done:

VOTE: Ghostlin

This vote won't be moving today.

[Tierce]

The Majiffy kill is kind of odd based on what I remember.

Why?

So Tierce, any chance you'd be willing to share why? Whacking Ghostlin isn't something I'd generally oppose but usually I would like to have

some

sort of reasoning IIRC, you were also calling him town as of end of D1.

I was. No longer--see my first post of today, etc.

Having seen Majiffy's flip, inte's interactions with him yesterday take on a new light.

How?

FYI: The missing post from P5 of the RAR file can be found (I believe) at the bottom of P2 of the file, posted by Majiffy, timestamp puts it around the right spot. Hope that is correct/helps someone.

You're correct. I had to build pages 2, 5, 8 and 9 from player ISOs. I got distracted and the timestamp of that post slipped through. Thanks for the info. Won't correct now, the link to the file would change; but I'll fix it before the whole thing is hosted here in MS.

Tierce is currently a town read, but I have to weigh that against the possibility that she just always looks like town to me.

TBH, I thought I was rather obvscum in MLP.

I thought some people claimed stuff. If they did they need to state results in their first post.

Ahem:

VOTE: Ghostlin

This vote won't be moving today.

'nuff said. Please to be adding more votes to scumGhostlin.

[Tierce]

Tierce is currently a town read, but I have to weigh that against the possibility that she just always looks like town to me.

TBH, I thought I was rather obvscum in MLP.

Of course, I had no idea who you were before MLP, and thus had no basis of comparison. :p

Yeah, but

now

you can compare the styles; I like playing town, which makes a world of difference--acting unafraid as scum is something I can't really do (yet). I'm frantic and cowardly as scum; Igive fuckall about my continued survival as town (living to endgame? what is it?). /pointless self-meta remarks

Why aren't you voting Ghostlin at this stage?

I will reread this game tomorrow but for now...

VOTE: Pizza

Is this just an RVS style vote?

Do you think it is? Why?

[Tierce]

The Majiffy kill is kind of odd based on what I remember.

Why?

I guess it's just that majiffy wasn't very high on my town reads, and I don't see the benefit of offing him when there are several people who have expressed suspicion of him. That is, I thought there would have been higher-priority targets for scum based on majiffy's D1 play.

Why do you think it was a scumkill? 'Night killed' could have different meaning, we are not aware of the exact flavor. Majiffy's idle reaction to kondi's vengekill on me was bad, he was more concerned about the fact that I thought he was scum than to pull as much information as he could from two players who were about to die (kondi and me). I could see it as a vigkill, pappums's death makes more sense as the mafia kill.

@PeregrineV

- Why the need for the 'notice' that you'll vote me if you think I'm scum? That should be pretty standard town behavior; that mention is akin to the reads "for now" that scum so love to do.


HAI GHOSTLIN~
You won't mind us lynching you, right, scumbag?
xoxo, Tierce


Would also like to know why Tebow appears to assume multiscum, and state that if I am in a 13p multiball game

again

I'm going to break something.

[Tierce]

Tierce: I am also uncomfortable with the degree of flip-flop you've made on Ghostlin, but I wanted to hear from him first.

I went from calling him town on a rushed vengekill reaction on D1 to calling him scum on D2. This is not flip-flopping, it's pretty standard procedure when you have a night result, and overnight 180s are perfectly normal due to flips. What on earth, Glork.

I'll come out and say it, instead of any of this beating around the bush: Right now, I don't believe you have a damning/informative result on Ghostlin.

However, this is correct:

Yeah,

b

ut

now

you can compare the styles; I

l

ike playing town, which makes a world of difference--acting

u

nafraid as scum is something I can't really do (yet). I'm

f

rantic and cowardly as scum; Igive

f

uckall about my continued survival as town (living to endgame? what is it?). /pointless self-meta remarks

It doesn't change the fact that I am convinced Ghostlin is scum. I

did

think he was town during D1, which was probably helped along by his tendency to jump on everything that remotely came up against me. However, these things also stink of scum buddying up to town:

Did you read 37 and 46. It's required reading this game. Get your vote off Tierce.

This is the second time I've read when you've called someone's reason (directly or indirectly) shitty without giving an exact reason why you believe it is. How is Tierce, in your opinion, conjuring up a reason to attack Majiffy? Why isn't the two quotes I mentioned earlier NOT cognitive dissonance, or talking out of both sides of the mouth for kondi? Why do you believe these things are NOT valid reasons for both Tierce and I to believe what we do?

[Tierce, check my meta]

during the night then because you're reading me all wrong if you think I'm scum.

Meta me is a piss poor defense. Just saying.

I even commented on this:

Ghostlin, by now you should know I'm town, but I can fight my own battles, k? Back off.

I've seen you go all "oh I'd be okay with a pseudo policy lynch on D1" as

scum

, Ghostlin.


I heavily implied I had an incriminating result on you. I've seen town reacting to false-guilty results on them from people they believe are town.¹ You believe I'm town (even worse, you use the wording "I

know

you're town"), so I'd have no reason to lie. There are a number of reasons that could cause me to actually have an unreliable result in a mini theme, but instead you immediately called me a liar ("you're blowing smoke out of your ass" and "you're obviously incredibly talking out of both sides of your mouth")

while still calling me town

.

Town who is false-guiltied by someone they believe is town usually goes "wtf is going on".¹ You called me a liar, made no mention of the possibility I was gambiting, made no mention of sanities being in play. And still named me town.

This is what MoI would call cognitive dissonance, scum.

Look, there are two reasons I want the bomb:

1. I'll likely be lynched if I don't get it, and would like a chance of scum dying today.
2. I want pappams to prove his role.

1 is an AtE and pretty bad reasoning--if you're town, you have more a reason to scumhunt and maximize the dual lynch possibility, also we don't know much about the bomb yet--pappums, you need to get in here and explain about when the bomb detonates, if it's passable, does it end the day if the bomb goes off, etc. If the bomb ends the day that that's not happening. If it's passable, then there's no guarantee it'll end up where we want it. If it doesn't detonate until Day 3 then we're not getting maximum utility out of it (but we might as well use it now).

2 makes me go 'Why?'. If this is a fake claim of a one shot kill, scum will get rid of it mostly because they don't control it and the longer the game drags the more likely scum will be left of the prisoner's dilemma of getting rid of a powerful Town one-shot role they know about or ridding them of a player that has the chance to be dangerous in the Day.

This is arguing just to prove that kondi was wrong in his reasoning. It's the kind of arguing that scum does--not to understand someone's alignment, but to win an argument.

EBWOP: Thinking on it, the pappumskill defiintely points to Slandaar and Ghostlin, because obviously they kept trying to convince me that using the kill D1 was a good idea, simply because it's a kill not controlled by scum. If either of them were the force behind the scum's nightkill, pappums becomes the top kill choice.

Unvote
Vote: Ghostlin

I'm okay with this wagon for now.

Because I'd completely announce my intentions for the bomb to get used and kill the bomb as an object lesson for you all because I was completely terrified of it. That's WIFOM. I was more concerned of an opportunity being passed up and getting more information from Pappums day/nightkill.

No, it's not WIFOM. What

you

are doing is WIFOM, Glork is doing nightkill analysis.


In Post 30, Ghostlin has effectively given up any chance of claiming vig in this game.

Acutally, I'll just do this.

Unvote.

Vote: Glork

For lying to the entire thread.

Sounds fake.

Post 44 is more arguing for the sake of arguing, especially because:

In Post 25, I flatly stated that I didn't like the focus you put on Kondi or the manner in which you hopped his wagon. I even RESTATED that you were a target of mine BEFORE the kill reasoning.

That's not what post #25 says,

champ

. Here's what post #25 says:

Ghostlin: There are MANY more powerful abilities and players (no offense to pappums) who would have made better N1 kill targets. A one-shot delayed public davyig is NOT a very powerful role. And I stand by my statement that a delayed vig D1 is a terrible idea, because it gives us zero early-game benefit like a D1 lynch does, and it is no better-informed than a D1 lynch is. Not a single person has even bothered to actually refute this point with any semblance of logic, yet people (like kondi and you) keep asserting that using it D1 is a good idea. Slandaar, too, IIRC.

In fact, that pappums was even killed speaks an awful lot to the composition of this scumteam. They obviously felt that the one-shot vig was enough of a threat that it needed killed.

Tierce: I am also uncomfortable with the degree of flip-flop you've made on Ghostlin, but I wanted to hear from him first. I'll come out and say it, instead of any of this beating around the bush: Right now, I don't believe you have a damning/informative result on Ghostlin.

The biggest beef I have with him is the manner in which he focused on kondi D1, and his positioning on the wagon/lynch.

There WERE 1-2 scums on it (likely 2), and those slots probably come from [Slandaar, Ghostlin, Malee] (unless Tierce/Ghostlin are gambiting here).

It mentions nothing about your displeasure about me joining Kondi's wagon. In fact, you say here you hated how Kondi argued with you without a semblance of logic---except Kondi's dead and obv town--so what gives, Glork?

However, directly lying in thread and soft attack without doing anything about Tierce are both noted here.

See the

red

(color added by me). Glork did not lie.

---

EBWOP: In fact, if you're an SK, that even

BETTER

explains why you'd want to nightkill pappums before he could use his ability.

And it partially explains the Tierce change-of-heart.

Explain. Because the only way this seems to make sense with you thinking I

don't

have a guilty on him is if you think I'm mafia and Ghostlin is SK.

---

^{1 Recent example in the Vanillaside by kondi, who was false-guiltied by a supposedly confirmed cop who turned out to be scum.}

[Tierce]

EBWOP: In fact, if you're an SK, that even

BETTER

explains why you'd want to nightkill pappums before he could use his ability.

And it partially explains the Tierce change-of-heart.

Explain. Because the only way this seems to make sense with you thinking I

don't

have a guilty on him is if you think I'm mafia and Ghostlin is SK.

Tierce: I have considered exactly that possibility. As I indicated earlier, I have also considered the possibility that you and Ghostlin are scum together and that this was some sort of gambit.

Ghostlin: There are MANY more powerful abilities and players (no offense to pappums) who would have made better N1 kill targets. A one-shot delayed public davyig is NOT a very powerful role. [snip] In fact, that pappums was even killed speaks an awful lot to the composition of this scumteam. They obviously felt that the one-shot vig was enough of a threat that it needed killed.

...I feel somewhat insulted to be considered a potential part of this scumteam.

[Tierce]

When I first looked at the downloadable Day1, it showed up like the actual pages, with avatars, etc. Now when I open it, the avatars are not appearing next to the post.

Anyone know how best to open it so I can have the avatars connected? I got all of the files unzipped.

You have to keep the files with the folder structure they have, including the

img

folder.

[Tierce]

@Tierce- Bad idea faking, since if Ghostlin is town, your obviously suspect.

Why?
You're again doing this thing. Stop laying soft suspicion on me. If you have doubts about be, be upfront with them.

Besides, lolwut. At least Glork's idea of me being scumbuddies with Ghostlin requires a bit more cunning than what you're suggesting.

Unvote

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Ghostlin

?


You're laying a vote on Ghostlin while threatening me with retribution if he flips town. Thanks for lining up lynches.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(3) Ghostlin – Tierce, Glork, PeregrineV
(1) pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting

: Dazzy, Ghostlin, inte, Malee, Pizzadudes7, StefanB

Deadline

: Saturday 31 March 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

It's not that hard really. Lying as town is bad. It triggers the distrust instinct.However, if you actually caught scum (see the link to the Newbie game), then I'm willing to forgive.In this case, I think your LYING (still a bad idea, it triggers the distrust instinct) may have caught Ghostlin in his reaction to you (see link to the Newbie game).However, because you don't have a real result, this is all based on play- yours and Ghostlin's. Right now, his bad reaction (see link) outweighs your lying.

Still not a 1v1: your entire premise is based on two things, Tierce's bluff, which could still be entirely Town motivated, and my 'bad' reaction.

I could of reacted poorly for a number of reasons. Tierce could of gambitted as Town. I've fucked up bigger things before, and I've seen worse gambits fail.

Yup. Ghostlin is scum.

[Tierce]

It's not that hard really. Lying as town is bad. It triggers the distrust instinct.However, if you actually caught scum (see the link to the Newbie game), then I'm willing to forgive.In this case, I think your LYING (still a bad idea, it triggers the distrust instinct) may have caught Ghostlin in his reaction to you (see link to the Newbie game).However, because you don't have a real result, this is all based on play- yours and Ghostlin's. Right now, his bad reaction (see link) outweighs your lying.

Still not a 1v1: your entire premise is based on two things, Tierce's bluff, which could still be entirely Town motivated, and my 'bad' reaction.

I could of reacted poorly for a number of reasons.

Tierce could of gambitted as Town. I've fucked up bigger things before, and I've seen worse gambits fail.

Yup. Ghostlin is scum.

@Dazzy:

Look at the underlined. Regardless of whatever Ghostlin think of PeregrineV's view of that "1v1", that does not make sense from a protown mindset, it's just WIFOMy goodness. Ghostlin is not explaining

why

he reacted poorly, he is saying he reacted poorly and leaving everyone to guess at the why.

[Tierce]

Male--did you unrar the file first? Can you get me a screenshot of what is happening?

[Tierce]

I'm drunk. I'm also town. Don't expect anything coherent till I've worked the alcohol out of my system. >.>

[Tierce]

Malee is lurking, but would still only be more of a PL than anything else.

I'm not lurking, but how do you expect me to catch up without the much needed information of Day1? Can't really work with what we got on Day2. So until It works again (can someone upload the file again please?), I'll not be able to post "content".

Oh for pity's sake, don't you have your memory? Can't you attempt to provoke commentary from the other players? Sitting on your hands just because you can't check the files is scummy behavior.

They are working fine. Try again. Download, unrar without altering the folder structure, open the html files. If it doesn't work, don't Ctrl+C, give me a

screenshot

.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(2) Ghostlin – Tierce, PeregrineV
(2) inte - Ghostlin, StefanB
(1) PeregrineV – Slandaar
(1) Malee – Glork
(1) Glork – inte

Not voting

: Dazzy, Malee, pizzadudes7

Deadline

: Saturday 31 March 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

VOTE: Malee

Four posts elsewhere, nothing here. If she was really interested in catching up, she'd be looking at updates to her "can't read" situation.

[/saulres]

[Tierce]

Good grief, this is one of those games in which I want to vig half the playerlist.

[Tierce]

Malee wagon is still a-go.

[Tierce]

Best of luck with everything, Malee. Mafia yes, but never scum. <3


UNVOTE: Malee
VOTE: Ghostlin

Scumbag #2 can wait till the slot gets replaced.

[Tierce]

Hey Ghostlin.

If you're scum, your buddies already know to kill me.
If you're town, would you mind stop pushing NKs on me? Please and thank you. I have an early NK ratio as it is, don't need your help when it comes to obvtowning via kicking trashcans.

[Tierce]

Grey if you are town this will be epic APPLECAVE times.

Home soon.

[Tierce]

If you're scum, your buddies already know to kill me.If you're town, would you mind stop pushing NKs on me? Please and thank you. I have an early NK ratio as it is, don't need your help when it comes to obvtowning via kicking trashcans.

If I was scum, I would of killed you night one instead of nominating you.

As I am though, the whole kicking trashcans thing was PV going 'I don't understand why Ghostlin didn't flat out attack Tierce, derp.' Again, it's something I've explained at least once before. Typing out the sentence was growing old.

WIIIIIFOM. And why are you outing your nomination choice seriously stop pointing NKs at me goddammit.

I may be a little bit drunk. >.> <.<

[Tierce]

See, I have one problem with inte. I played with him in Newbie #1185, and he was bad-logic + trolling town. I flailed at him through a good chunk of the game, and pretty much the only reason I didn't push harder was that the N1 NK target had had a solid townread on him.
I can't read this kind of player worth a damn.

And I did a spectacularly bad job of reading StefanB in Warlocks and Werewolves. Damned warlock. >.>

[Tierce]

Unvote

, sorry Malee, but I am getting less patente due to work.
I give people chances, but not to much.
Why do you want a claim Glork, normally town shouldn't fish for claims?

hmmmmmmmmmm

Stefan do you think glork is town? why?

Stefan... Glorks town, although currently being ridiculous.

Okay wtf is going on here.

Happy Scumday, Ghostlin. ^_^

[Tierce]

See, I have one problem with inte. I played with him in Newbie #1185, and he was bad-logic + trolling town. I flailed at him through a good chunk of the game, and pretty much the only reason I didn't push harder was that the N1 NK target had had a solid townread on him.
I can't read this kind of player worth a damn.

And I did a spectacularly bad job of reading StefanB in Warlocks and Werewolves. Damned warlock. >.>

Tierce are you scum again?

'cause you're acting like it -_-

No, you derp. Look at the start of D1. I'll straight up admit I can't read inte.

If you can't tell the difference between my play here and on MLP... ._. I don't like playing scum, that game had COWARD written all over my slot.

[Tierce]

Yeah that one escaped my multiquote.

I am not sure, my question should perhaps be more clear:

Why are you doing that?
What townmotivtion is there?

Glork is doing somethink that scum has more motivation to do, so he has some explanation to do.

He is giving me allarmingbells.

(And yes town should be fishing, so if Glork is doing it, interesting)

[Tierce]

I'm ' ' to declaring Ghostlin obvious fucking town.

That vote on StefanB and not Slandaar when he had the chance was great.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

Want to vote Slandaar, but let me count votes first.

Glork, PeregrineV would make sense as 3rd scum, but tbh trying to call the scumteam at this stage is a stupid idea.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(2) Slandaar – GreyICE, Glork
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte
(1) StefanB – Ghostlin

Not voting

: pizzadudes7, StefanB, Tierce

Deadline

: Saturday 31 March 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(3) Malee – Slandaar, Ghostlin, StefanB
(2) Ghostlin – PeregrineV, Tierce
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Slandaar – Malee

Not voting

: Glork, pizzadudes7

Deadline

: Saturday 31 March 20:00 CET

Vote: Malee

(/replacement).

Unvote

Unvote
Vote: Slandaar

Vote: Slaandar

Unvote.

Vote: StefanB

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

VOTE: Slandaar

Unofficial Vote Count:

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(3) Slandaar – Glork, GreyICE, Tierce
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) StefanB – Ghostlin
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte

Not voting

: Pizzadudes7, StefanB

Deadline

: Saturday 31 March 20:00 CET


PEdit: I wish you're right and that you're not scum, that's what I wish. (Do I get a third wish to go with those? )

[Tierce]

Mehhhh. IDK. I just want someone dead at this point, tbh.

Yes.

Unvote. Vote: Slandaar

Hey PeregrineV, I keep a search string for my name because I want to see who's looking for me for cache hunts.

What's

your

excuse for only popping up when your name is brought up?

[Tierce]

V/LA today.

Seriously Slandaar, 'misrep of events'? I failed to click on one quote, and it makes it look even worse when I show that one in context.

[Tierce]

Unvote

, sorry Malee, but I am getting less patente due to work.
I give people chances, but not to much.
Why do you want a claim Glork, normally town shouldn't fish for claims?

hmmmmmmmmmm

Stefan do you think glork is town? why?

I am not sure, my question should perhaps be more clear:

Why are you doing that?
What townmotivtion is there?

Glork is doing somethink that scum has more motivation to do, so he has some explanation to do.

He is giving me allarmingbells.

(And yes town should be fishing, so if Glork is doing it, interesting)

Claiming at L-1 is normal.
Giving a replacement time is also normal.
I wanted somethink from Malee anythink (don't know if there would have been such a strong push on the lynch, if there was some content)
Now claims to get claims out unecessary is bad for town. (and Ghostlin you should know this re the game you moded last, claiming gave scum huge help because town managed to get a lot of PRs out)

So besides let's do somethink because it is tradition, why exactly is a claim now a good idea? (Doing somethink because it is normally done is not the greatest reason)

Yes I am asking Glork because of this, because there is still suspicion for me on Glorks slot. (not the most suspicion of all players, but he isn't clear for me)

Btw: Slandaar you asked me about Glork, what do you think about him. You hardly mentioned him all game.

Stefan... Glorks town, although currently being ridiculous.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: Slandaar because V/LA most of today and I don't want derpwagons.

[Tierce]

Pizzadudes7 is avoiding this game, see his posts elsewhere. Please either shape up or replace out.

Buuut this is a good vote:

VOTE: PeregrineV

That sketchy behavior around Ghostlin and I smacked of scum lining up lynches and trying to avoid responsibility for it because 'he has seen town lie/gambit in Newbie games'. You have more experience with gambits than that, and that argument was worded all sorts of scummy wrong.

[Tierce]

In the meantime, Tierce, I have a homework assignment for you.

How do you feel about GreyICE's replacement into the game? How do you think it compares to his replacement into MLP Mafia, taking into consideration the circumstances surrounding his replacement? What behavioral similarities and differences do you see between this game and that one?

I'll go over the rest, but I think this needs a disclaimer here, for the sake of everyone playing (especially those who were not with us in MLP).

I was scum in MLP. Glork and GreyICE were town. The three of us were in a neighborhood together, and CES (scum) was also in the neighborhood.

With two scum in the neighborhood, it was clear to the scumteam that the two of you had to be town. There was no way there was an SK in there. As a result, I never had to honestly scumhunt in the neighborhood. You two slots were, for me, conftown from the very start.

This means I have very little to no gut feelings about the differences/similarities in Grey's/your play between here and MLP, because my alignment changed between games. There is no gut meta to go by, because I had no

feelings

about your slots in our last game together. I'll have to go the logical way and see what results from there, purely from what is written/the motivations behind it.

/disclaimer

Off to crosscheck and pretend I was a townpony. >.>


PEdit: Aaaand we're off into confrontational land already? Joy.

[Tierce]

Catch up later today. Sorry, general burn out in most of my games. >_<

[Tierce]

Nope, catching up elsewhere. I slacked off in several games. I'll go through this today, f'shure.

[Tierce]

right now i feel like i have two possible scum partners, but i need someone lynched and/or more information before i can really say for sure
still on page 8 of re-read

Hopefully PV is one of them.

If Malee/GreyICE or Tebow/StefanB is the other, YOU ARE A GODDAMNED GENIUS.

Why are you handing inte your scumspects like that before he expresses his opinion? I mean, your scumspects are pretty clear elsewhere, but why did you feel the need to list them here again, Glork?

[Tierce]

Been busy elsewhere, then I was going to reread MLP, then I remembered I hadn't watched Fluttershy's episode and, well, I got distracted. >.>

Four days to deadline. I solemnly promise I will do that GreyICE analysis after I wake up.

Also why are there no more votes in PeregrineV. ._. inte, what are you doing on Glork? Come on over.

[Tierce]

Aaaand you too, Slandaar. Seriously, Pizzadudes can win the prize of Scummiest Town Ever. It's a feature, not a bug--I was third party in Open #369 and powerlynched him using good logic and super townie reasoning. He's that kind of player, and you're not getting five more votes on him this close to deadline.

[Tierce]

Glork, you do realize this is GreyICE who you're asking me to read, right? ._.

Not sure how I feel about being pointed out as a voice of reason. Part of me tells me this is typical Glork, part of me feels there's a scum bullet with my name on it, part of me tells me reading players was far easier when I

was the bad apple in the neighborhood

did not make an habit of socializing with them and creating bonds.

In MLP, however, GreyICE's rationale seemed (while absurd) to be original. Here he is throwing down buzzwords like 'classic pressure maneuver' and 'classic scumtell', and not explaining what they mean for him. I haven't see townICE doing this.

Good golly, I was totally obvscum in MLP how did I live. Good thing that there was town claiming scum left and right.

PEdit: Mhm. Yeah, I get the feeling Grey is scum. If we get a wagon going until deadline, I'd lynch this slot over PeregrineV's.

[Tierce]

Sigh.



Also how the hell do you have 90+ posts, Glork? I know I'm trying to cut down on too many posts, but the difference between our post count is still absurd.

[Tierce]

Grey.

Stop tunneling blindly.

You know that "You are better than this" is utter crap.

Why are you arguing with Glork? Seems like the wrong way to go about it if you want him lynched.

Why do you think Glork is scum?

[Tierce]

BB! <3

You better hope you're not scum, chum.

[Tierce]

PEdit: Mhm. Yeah, I get the feeling Grey is scum. If we get a wagon going until deadline, I'd lynch this slot over PeregrineV's.

I'm conflicted. I know I can't read him decently, but from Malee and from the comparison in Grey's behavior between here and MLP, I think he's scum.

[Tierce]

I dont like 366

Reads like scum coaching to me and definitely doesnt read as if you are town talking to a scumsuspect...

It really doesnt sit right at all.

He's a scumspect, yes, but I'm not putting aside the possibility he is town, and in my experience he flips his shit all too easily regardless of alignment. See above: I'm conflicted, and I've explained why.

I don't like the confrontational level the game is reaching, so I'm trying to tone things down and be rational. GreyICE tunnels like crazy, and he is pushing a wagon with no traction for today.

If

he is town, I want him to realize this. Besides, I wanted to know his reasons for voting Glork, because he hadn't expressed them yet. IMO, 'opportunism' is relative; Glork is not going for easy wagons.

[Tierce]

I'm here, but food + gaming session.

[Tierce]

Tierce ask me stuff so you can figure out my alignment.

You care too much about this.

[Tierce]

Grey, answer his questions.

Otherwise shut up and let me do magic.

[Tierce]

Have you ever played with BBmolla?

I have. So far, I have a pretty accurate record of reading him. Stop tunneling

again

, you're just ruining the signal:noise ratio.

Now answer his questions.

What evidence do you have of BB not reading the thread? I see him catching up.

[Tierce]

@

GreyICE

:

BBmolla deserves to die.

Lets make him die folks.

Do you still think Glork is scum?

Are you feeling me out to see if I can start a Glork wagon?

What do you think of PV?

No, I think Glork is obvious town and I'm confused as hell why you voted him.

PV is on my Need-to-ISO-ASAP list.

Do you still think Glork is scum?

If so, why?

Why are you avoiding the question?

Why are you making things up to get me lynched?

[Tierce]

I see plenty of reason. I don't have a solid read on

you

, Grey, and I wouldn't mind lynching you at all. This is the kind of question that helps me get a better read on you, and the fact that it was posed by someone else helps me figure out connections. WTH?

Do you still think Glork is scum? Why/why not?

[Tierce]

Why is a Grey lynch
off the possibilities
list, lil'Nezumi?

[Tierce]

vote extension

Will catch up on yesterday ASAP.

[Tierce]

Tierce, what exactly do you think about Slanddar's alignment right now?

My conclusions on the wagon were similar as yours; I think that 1+ of GreyICE/Slandaar is likely to be scum.

There is one issue with declaring who we nominated yesterday, but if we lynch scum today it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Hold on, I have to run VCs and I'll get back to you.

[Tierce]

Spoiler: D1 vote counts

(2) Ghostlin –

pappums rat

, Slandaar
(2) inte – Tierce,

Majiffy

(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) BBmolla – inte
(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Dazzy – Glork

Not voting: Dazzy, GreyICE, PeregrineV, BBmolla

(3)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

, Glork, Tierce
(2) Ghostlin –

pappums rat

, inte
(2) PeregrineV – Ghostlin, Dazzy
(1) BBmolla – PeregrineV
(1) inte –

Majiffy

(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7
(1)

kondi2424

– Slandaar

Not voting: GreyICE, BBmolla

(3)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

, Glork, Tierce
(2) Ghostlin –

pappums rat

, inte
(2)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin
(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) BBmolla – PeregrineV
(1) inte –

Majiffy

(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7

Not voting: GreyICE, BBmolla

(3)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

, Glork, Tierce
(2) Ghostlin –

pappums rat

, inte
(2)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin
(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) BBmolla – PeregrineV
(1) inte –

Majiffy

(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7
(1) Tierce – BBmolla

Not voting: GreyICE

(4)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(2)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

, Tierce
(1) Ghostlin – inte
(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) inte –

Majiffy

(1) Tierce – BBmolla

Not voting: Glork, GreyICE,

pappums rat

(5)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7, Glork
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Ghostlin – inte
(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) inte –

Majiffy

(1) Tierce – BBmolla
(1)

Majiffy

– Tierce

Not voting: GreyICE,

pappums rat

(5)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7, Glork,

Majiffy

(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Ghostlin – inte
(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) Tierce – BBmolla
(1)

Majiffy

– Tierce

Not voting: GreyICE,

pappums rat

(6)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7, Glork,

Majiffy

(2)

Majiffy

– Tierce, inte
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) PeregrineV – Dazzy
(1) Tierce – BBmolla

Not voting: GreyICE,

pappums rat

(6)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7, Glork,

Majiffy

(3)

Majiffy

– Tierce, inte, Dazzy
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Tierce – BBmolla

Not voting: GreyICE,

pappums rat

(4)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, Pizzadudes7,

Majiffy

(3)

Majiffy

– Tierce, inte, Dazzy
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Tierce – BBmolla
(1) inte – PeregrineV

Not voting: Glork, GreyICE,

pappums rat

(5)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, Pizzadudes7,

Majiffy

, GreyICE
(3)

Majiffy

– Tierce, inte, Dazzy
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Tierce – BBmolla
(1) inte – PeregrineV

Not voting: Glork,

pappums rat

(7, LYNCH)

kondi2424

– Slandaar, Ghostlin, Pizzadudes7,

Majiffy

, GreyICE, Glork, Tierce
(2)

Majiffy

– inte, Dazzy
(1)

pappums rat

–

kondi2424

(1) Tierce – BBmolla
(1) inte – PeregrineV

Not voting:

pappums rat

[Tierce]

Spoiler: D2 vote counts

(3) Ghostlin – Tierce, Dazzy, PeregrineV
(1) GreyICE – Glork
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin

Not voting: inte, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(4) Ghostlin – Tierce, Dazzy, PeregrineV, Glork
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar
(1) Glork – Ghostlin

Not voting: inte, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(3) Ghostlin – Tierce, PeregrineV, Glork
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting: Dazzy, Ghostlin, inte, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(3) Ghostlin – Tierce, Glork, PeregrineV
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting: Dazzy, Ghostlin, inte, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(2) Ghostlin – Tierce, PeregrineV
(2) PeregrineV – Slandaar, BBmolla
(1) GreyICE – Glork

Not voting: Dazzy, Ghostlin, inte, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7

(2) Ghostlin – Tierce, PeregrineV
(2) inte – Ghostlin, BBmolla
(1) PeregrineV – Slandaar
(1) GreyICE – Glork
(1) Glork – inte

Not voting: Dazzy, GreyICE, Pizzadudes7

(4) GreyICE – Glork, Tierce, Slandaar, BBmolla
(2) inte – Ghostlin, Dazzy
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) Glork – inte

Not voting: GreyICE, Pizzadudes7

(3) GreyICE – Glork, Tierce, Slandaar
(2) inte – Ghostlin, Dazzy
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Slandaar – GreyICE

Not voting: Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(4) GreyICE –Tierce, Slandaar, Ghostlin, BBmolla
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Slandaar – GreyICE

Not voting: Glork, Pizzadudes7

(3) GreyICE – Slandaar, Ghostlin, BBmolla
(2) Ghostlin – PeregrineV, Tierce
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Slandaar – GreyICE

Not voting: Glork, Pizzadudes7

(3) GreyICE – Slandaar, Ghostlin, Glork
(2) Ghostlin – PeregrineV, Tierce
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Slandaar – GreyICE

Not voting: Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(2) Slandaar – GreyICE, Glork
(1) Ghostlin – PeregrineV
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) inte – Dazzy
(1) Glork – inte
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin

Not voting: Pizzadudes7, BBmolla, Tierce

(4) Slandaar – GreyICE, Glork, Tierce, PeregrineV
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) Glork – inte
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin

Not voting: Dazzy, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(3) Slandaar – GreyICE, Glork, PeregrineV
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) Glork – inte
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin

Not voting: Dazzy, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla, Tierce

(2) Slandaar – GreyICE, PeregrineV
(2) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) Glork – inte
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin

Not voting: Dazzy, Pizzadudes7, BBmolla

(3) Slandaar – GreyICE, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(2) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork
(1) Glork – inte
(1) BBmolla – Ghostlin
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting: Dazzy, BBmolla

(3) Slandaar – GreyICE, PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(3) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork, Ghostlin
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting: Dazzy, BBmolla

(3) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork, Ghostlin
(2) Slandaar – PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(1) Glork – inte
(1) Pizzadudes7 – Slandaar

Not voting: Dazzy, GreyICE, BBmolla

(4) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork, Ghostlin, Slandaar
(2) Slandaar – PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(1) Glork – inte

Not voting: Dazzy, GreyICE, BBmolla

(4) PeregrineV – Tierce, Glork, Ghostlin, Slandaar
(2) Slandaar – PeregrineV, Pizzadudes7
(2) Glork – inte, GreyICE

Not voting: Dazzy, BBmolla

(3) PeregrineV – Tierce, Ghostlin, Slandaar
(2) Glork – inte, PeregrineV
(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7
(1) BBmolla – GreyICE

Not voting: BBmolla, Dazzy, Glork

(2) PeregrineV – Tierce, Ghostlin
(2) Glork – inte, PeregrineV,
(1) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7
(1) BBmolla – GreyICE
(1) GreyICE – Slandaar

Not voting: BBmolla, Dazzy, Glork

[Tierce]

Because I keep deluding myself that one day I'll survive enough nights in a town game that those votecounts will be useful for votecount analysis posts.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: PeregrineV
VOTE: GreyICE

On top of wagon analysis and active lurking that she did, as well as Grey's DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT onto BB, there is something from Malee that really made me twitch:

I actually have

some

technical difficulties to open the archive on page 1. It shows up as strange characters.

Not really great to catch up like that

... :/

Emphasis mine.

"Not really great"? From what she posted, it would be downright

impossible

to see D1, but that is not how she worded it. She showed very little interest in getting things solved, didn't acknowledge alternative solutions like PeregrineV's GoogleDocs--oh, by the way, I'm now quite certain PeregrineV is town because of it--and chose not to work with what there was from D2 until she had D1 recovered. That does not show a protown mindset of proactiveness.

I don't know if I'm reading too much into this; I think to analyze language too much, but it does seem really off.

[Tierce]

When he was getting rung up, there was virtually zero noise in any other direction.

[snip]

[this point]

is tempered by the lesson I learned in MLP

<3

Objection, your honor.

[Tierce]

Last visited: 29 Mar 2012 21:32:46

29 Mar 2012 21:38:06

I believe him.

UNVOTE: GreyICE
VOTE: Slandaar

[Tierce]

I am handing you scum on a silver platter. Stop voting Slandaar. Vote BBMolla. If I'm wrong about this I will fucking self vote tomorrow.

Stop making idiot pronouncements. That's just straight-out pointless.

BB hasn't been online at all. I am not going to power through the lynch of someone I'm good at reading just because you say so. You've seen me analyze things as town; I don't work via bullying.

What do you think of Glork's D1 lynch wagon reasoning?


Glork, we have a goddamn town bloc here (I hope). Between you, Pizza, Grey and I, we should be able to get things done today as long as it doesn't require herding cats (I'm talking with

you

, Grey and Pizza).

And screw anyone who calls me scum because I'm directing things. I just got vigged offsite for directing the town when over 4/5ths of the game had declared townreads on me, I was town; I am not going to take "you're attempting to direct the town, you must be scum" or "too townie" statements happily. -_-

[Tierce]

EBWOP: And non-mafia Ghostlin, too. WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GO.

[Tierce]

Alive

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
Dazzy

Ghostlin

Glork

inte

GreyICE

PeregrineV

Pizzadudes7

Slandaar
BBmolla

Tierce

Final vote count D1

(7)

kondi2424

– Slandaar,

Ghostlin

,

Pizzadudes7

,

Majiffy

,

GreyICE

,

Glork

,

Tierce

(2)

Majiffy

– inte, Dazzy
(1) pappums rat –

kondi2424

(1)

Tierce

– BBmolla
(1) inte – PeregrineV

Not voting:

pappums rat

We need to lynch Slandaar, Grey. Unless you have a scumread on Glork, Ghostlin, Pizza or me, I don't really see how you think voting off the D1 wagon is an option.

[Tierce]

You know when you pull the SAME SHIT as scum it's hard to take you seriously sometimes. That being said, you're town.

That's not what I meant. (FWIW, I did not attempt to lead anything in MLP, I was coasting like crazy.) What I meant is that it's a null tell with me and anyone who calls it a scum tell during this game will get vigorously slapped with my town meta.


Glork is right, in theory. But I'm having trouble picturing PeregrineV as scum when he went out of his way to give Malee a way to read the game, and Grey has a point in how he reacted to Glork.

[Tierce]

Im lost as fuck but don't like greyice
Hence the vote

No. Your vote bad.

Grey made a post saying Malee nominated Glork 6 minutes after Johoohno's last activity on the site.

He had said he had PM'd the mod before (for this info).

Only town get MVP votes.

I don't think Greyscum would count on anyone clearing him with this kind of time correlation; it would be a very weird coincidence to get that post so close to Johoohno's profile timestamp. GreyICE is definitely protown.

Vote Slandaar.

[Tierce]

Grey, you need to be on the lynch wagon of scum to get a SPP. You need 6 SPP to get a DODGE/BLOCK, and the night MVP only gives you

5

.

I firmly believe you are town.

I am willing to

trade votes

with you to ensure

you

stay on a lynch wagon, and as much as it pains me, I can move my vote around as

you

wish until the end of day, as long as

you

stay on the lynch wagon. Y/N?

That is, you vote Slandaar now, and I'll park my vote on BB/whoever else you want. :/ At deadline/lynch, I'd like to be on a lynch wagon for obvious reasons, but until then, I can play as you wish.


PEdit: Oh thank goodness, we have time, at least. Thanks, mod.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: Slandaar
VOTE: BBmolla

Obviously voting MVP for you, otherwise there would be no point in this.

Let me know if/when you want vote changed, etc.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(3) Slandaar –pizzadudes7, Glork, GreyICE
(2) GreyICE – Slandaar, inte
(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) Glork – PeregrineV
(1) BBmolla – Tierce

Not voting

: BBmolla,Dazzy

Deadline

:Saturday 7 April 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

Actually, Glork, that rule seems to have changed...?

Theme specific rules

[013]

Nominations:

All players belonging to the team Grutto’s Gangstas may nominate a player for MVP. Nomination is sent to the mod via PM during the night phase (formatted

nominate: Johoohno

). The player who gets the most nominations each night phase gets five star player points (a.k.a

SPP

). The gain of these star player points will not be announced publicly, only informed by a PM from the mod. You cannot nominate yourself.
[014]

Star player points:

You get SPP’s by getting the most nomination a given night (see rule [013]) but you also get one SPP for lynching a scum (i.e. having a vote on the scum when he/she is lynched). Once you get 6 SPP’s you can buy either a

BLOCK

or a

DODGE

. A BLOCK is a one shot night kill (i.e. Vigilante) and a DODGE is a one shot bullet proof. You can buy and use BLOCK and DODGE as soon as you reach six SPP’s and the mod will inform you when that happens. You USE them by PMing the mod (formatted

BLOCK: Johoohno

or

DODGE

). Remember that you may only use one ability per night and BLOCKs and DODGEs counts just as other possible abilities.

Let me crosscheck with the pre-crash version.

@mod: Do we get the points before dawn and can use them that night?

[Tierce]

Bah, seems I got this wrong. There has been no change in the rules, and from what I gather from the previous thread's mod answer, the points arrive at dawn.

We should get a massclaim for yesterday's MVPs. The nominated player needs to be on today's lynching wagon, period.

[Tierce]

Glork, Grey, y/n to the above?

[Tierce]

12 players
on N1
No more than 9 likely to be town
Only 7 of those alive

Yeah, Glork is right. :/

In any case, I think the generally considered town D1 players should be on the lynching wagon, to increase the odds that, if we lynch scum, there will be someone with 6 SPP at the beginning of N2 because they are unknowingly carrying 5 SPP from N1.

This means that, along the aforementioned Grey, I'd like to see Glork, Ghostlin and myself on the wagon when we lynch. I'd also like Pizzadudes7, because it can't be bad for a likely protown player to get an SPP. This makes 5 out of 6 available wagon positions when we get to lynch. Establishing a definite six is irrelevant if we're lynching scum, as anyone with a brain will find out.

And I know neat, protown plans rarely work because town is naturally disorganized and scum interferes in things, but heck, I'd

really

like to manage this.


Can has shiny plan that requires patience and cooperation and town organization, please?

[Tierce]

Oi.

What.

Hooooold it, tiger.

@mod: Do we get a PM informing us when we get 6 SPP, or do we get it at 5 SPP (night votes) too? I'm not asking whether or not Glork got nominated, but from the first page it seems you would only get a PM about it when you get

the full 6 SPP

and can buy a DODGE/BLOCK.

[Tierce]

You better hope I get a satisfactory answer for that question, Nezumi. -_-

[Tierce]

Okay never mind I missed it in rule 013 HERPDERP carry on.

[Tierce]

Seriously, massive momentary chill followed by adrenaline at having to deal with scumGlork and having caught him in a slip.

Carry on, nothing to see here except Tierce derping. >.>

Glork and Grey on the wagon, whoever it is we lynch today.

[Tierce]

>.>

CARRY ON PLEASE.

[Tierce]

PeregrineV, are you caught up with the thread?

[Tierce]

GreyIIIIIICE,

if

you are town

[and]

we are going to rock this shit to the ground.

Starting with Slandaar.

^

Town bloc for greater gobbo glory!

[Tierce]

Town, without a shred of doubt:
Glork
GreyICE
Pizzadudes7
Tierce

These people are town. If you

really

need to know why, reread the last two pages.

Votes on these four people are not acceptable and any attempts at wagoning them/us or claims of vigging them/us will be treated as scumclaims.

[/nachomamma8]

[Tierce]

@ Mod: Would I be right in thinking scum are members of teams other than the Gangstas?

This is a towntell, because it shows the player has a town PM. He was replaced by StefanB, who was replaced by BBmolla.

BBmolla is town.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(3) Slandaar –pizzadudes7, Glork, GreyICE
(2) GreyICE – Slandaar, inte
(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) Glork – PeregrineV
(1) BBmolla – Tierce

Not voting

: BBmolla,Dazzy

Deadline

: Saturday 7 April 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

Slandaar, Dazzy, inte, PeregrineV (unlikely), Ghostlin (not mafia).

The mafia is almost for sure in the first three.

Grey, was that a consent to move vote? >.> I need clarifications on these things.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: BBmolla
VOTE: Slandaar

Unofficial vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)
(4) Slandaar – Pizzadudes7, Glork, GreyICE, Tierce
(2) GreyICE – Slandaar, inte
(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) Glork – PeregrineV

Not voting:

BBmolla, Dazzy


My goodness, this wagon is sexy.

PeregrineV, stop voting Glork.
BB, vote Slandaar. And no, this is not a "why are you sheeping me" trap, I don't need that--you're town.

Town:

Your MVP votes are to be on GreyICE tonight.

This isn't really up for discussion, since there's a town bloc in favor of this. Please, please don't be contrary and vote someone else 'because'.

[Tierce]

Grey made a post saying Malee nominated Glork 6 minutes after Johoohno's last activity on the site.

He had said he had PM'd the mod before (for this info).

Only town get MVP votes.

I don't think Greyscum would count on anyone clearing him with this kind of time correlation; it would be a very weird coincidence to get that post so close to Johoohno's profile timestamp. GreyICE is definitely protown.

It's not even that.

GreyICE-scum would have to be some kind of idiot savant to say "Glork," and MaleeScum has literally zero reason on earth to nominate Glork.

[Tierce]

No, they can't, that's the whole point of why I think Grey is town, he seems to have actually received a PM that tells him who Malee nominated.

This is slightly game-breaking, but since it wasn't anything deliberate on his end and the timestamps I got (his post, Johoohno's activity) are public knowledge...

[Tierce]

Hes experienced enough to pm the mod so that he says he got a pm only after mods been on. I know I would in said situation.

494 makes no sense at all.

No offense to him, but I don't think Grey is as cunning as that, as I said above.

[Tierce]

Okay. Slandaar offiically needs hammah'd.

Phone post because in town atm, but this.

[Tierce]

Hammer. He is scum with no fakeclaim, ttly obvious.

[Tierce]

Grey, on the EXTREME off-chance that Slandaar is town, are we still powevoting you for MVP?

And I'd say yes here.

[Tierce]

Apologies for the flake. I am back and you guys should see content asap. No replace needed, I wont be away like that again. I'm coming back just in time for night, aren't I? Fuck.

Sorry mod.

And you're next on the noose.

[Tierce]

im just a gobbo, vt...rookie

I dont see what the point is in claiming that though not goign to do anything my flip will hopefully enlighten town

The "enlightenment" thing is scummy crap.

===========[]

[Tierce]

would be messsed up if pizza+glork+tierce are scumteam

hilarious too tho

Impossible, tho. Glork and Pizza are town, and if I had been any more selfless today I would be donating a kidney.

[Tierce]

explicitly saying that you're town yourself pretty much defeats the purpose of acting town-like
like idk how to explain it

It actually doesn't.

I'm town, so... why does being self-conscious that I

am

town defeat the purpose? As I can some experience in MS, I can look back and pinpoint actions of mine that are very very Tierce-town. I play a rather lousy scumgame that I need to shape up on, but my town game is usually being as obvtown as I can get, so town won't fear me and scum will.

I was clearly protown yesterday, and as Glork said, my reaction to the fake vengekill might have netted me 5 SPP because I was obvtown going into night. As shown by my posts, I didn't realize the player with the 5 night SPP would be informed of the fact come dawn. I thought I might have been the one who had the highest SPP in the game, and yet I was willing to cede my position in a probable scumlynch wagon so that someone else who I strongly believe is town would have a chance at it. I tried to give advantage to likely protown players other than me by putting them on the probably lynchwagon. I'm trying to townhunt because of mechanics.

In what world does pointing that I am town defeat all of the above? Saying "I'm town" is a null tell, at best, and just because it irks you it doesn't mean that the player who does it is scum.

I mean, holy crap, I have a terrible opinion of my scum game and yet all the time it seems I scare the living daylights out of people by being "too townie" as town. B'uh?

Tierce, there are better targets than me and I think you know that. Feel free to ask me questions because it's much easier for me to solidify my thoughts if you do, but don't make my lynch a foregone conclusion just because I flaked for a bit (namely since I'm not the only one).

I will merrily admit I am lining up lynches. Glork knows I tunnel. >.> Suffice to say, I am not interested in lynching you today, but I'd really, really like that promised content.

How have the intervening pages affected your reads on the other players in the game?

@Tierce: Assume for one second that you hadn't seen the timestamps on Grey's post/Mod's login. Is Grey still town?

Ayup.

[Tierce]

As I can some experience in MS

EBWOP: As I

gain

some experience in MS


And that's a hammer. I don't really have anything to say in twilight I haven't already said before, except:

inte, why does it 'smell like a vengeful' to you? That's actually a pretty rare role, especially considering we have several killing powers in the game. Any extra power you add makes the game further swingy.

[Tierce]

._. Seriously this is the second game in a row where people posit me as an SK.

Whyyy.

How/why on earth

would I attempt to play as SK as I play town, considering how often my meta gets me nightkilled before D3? You're giving me far, far too much credit, Glork. I may not act much like a newbie, but my first game was the same as inte's, last November, and I have no idea how I would

even

play SK. O_o An obvtown SK eventually gets NK'd, no matter how X-shot BP he is.

(As a note, the "If I get (night) killed" line is originally from my town meta and I stole it for MLP, so you have your twinge in reverse. )

Anyway--is there something to be weighed on before night? I might have missed something in rushed catch up.

[Tierce]

There's two scum kills and neither of them shoot Glork?

My head, it asploded.

Glork is town, etc.

This playerlist doesn't know Glork too well and he wasn't paraded as the Paragon in the game other than through his Scummy banner. I was obvtowning it up in D1 and didn't get shot at either. Scum probably went for the 1-shot vig, which as Glork said before, likely tells quite a bit of how the scumteam feels about their odds of survival and their knowledge of the players in the game.

...in fact, if Ghostlin was mafia, I would expect either Glork or I to be dead by now. Ghostlin knows Glork, and he has seen me both from a mod and a player perspective, so I really doubt he'd allow his hypoteam to go for a vig instead of playing the odds of a doc being on me/Glork.


We don't know that it's a second scum kill, though it does seem likely (SK, not second mafia team).

[Tierce]

There's two scum kills and neither of them shoot Glork?

My head, it asploded.

That happened for two nights in MLP Mafia, too.

Kill Glork N1 hasn't been site meta for ages now. Get with the times!

We liked you! Applecave was nice and cozy and the Apples look out for each other! Then that nasty Trixie came into town and zapped you. D: Of course we had to launch a revenge against her!

[Tierce]

Well im a VT lineman

Just hammer and be done

Get Grey tomorrow he literally has to be scum.

im just a gobbo, vt...rookie

I dont see what the point is in claiming that though not goign to do anything my flip will hopefully enlighten town

Scumbag didn't even bother giving us his rolename when the character name is perfectly clear on the town PMs. Yep, he will flip scum.


BB, reads, etc. INPUT, dammit.


PEdit: Heh. Thinking in tandem.

[Tierce]

@BBmolla, Glork

- How do you reconcile the PV scumread with the fact that he flipped town in our finished game?

[Tierce]

While I liked #594 in general, there was something that came out in particular. I don't know if it's just Dazzy's general playstyle, but it does give off a weird scummy vibe:

Is it really impossible for

[Tierce]

to be scum, despite her apparently pro-town appearance? What are your thoughts on this town bloc that you are suddenly a part of?

This is layering soft suspicion on me, a player she has been calling town; and why is she asking Glork's opinion on the town bloc since he has already expressed it a few times, with or without reasoning?

She is not sure how she feels about the town bloc, but... what exactly is her problem with the town bloc, again?

[Tierce]

Ew, scratch that, further look makes me hate this post.

Last night I nominated Tierce because I did see her as most pro-town. Use that how you will.

He (sorry, got your gender wrong earlier) thought I was town N1. Apparent conclusion that I'm town for my reaction to the fake vengekill.

Tierce, there are better targets than me and I think you know that.

Addressing me as if I am town. This post shows belief/knowledge I am town.

Feel free to ask me questions because it's much easier for me to solidify my thoughts if you do, but don't make my lynch a foregone conclusion just because I flaked for a bit (namely since I'm not the only one).

"Don't look at me! Look at the other flakers/lurkers!"

What makes me hesitate is this "town bloc".

Never expresses why.

As unlikely as inte's proposition is, something similar to it is still possible, and I'm hesitant to vote with such a group even though it mostly lines up with my own reads, as I don't trust some of the members.

Never expresses why. He has mostly townreads on the town bloc, but... who doesn't he have a townread on?

@Glork, Please expand on your claim that Tierce is guaranteed not scum. I haven't really seen you come out and say so to that degree before your post 569. Is it really impossible for her to be scum, despite her apparently pro-town appearance? What are your thoughts on this town bloc that you are suddenly a part of?

Now... I am suddenly possible not-town? The way this is being put doesn't look like it's a question for Glork's opinion on me, because he has already said what his opinion is on the whole bloc with me included. It's soft suspicion, trying to break townreads.

@Tierce: Assume for one second that you hadn't seen the timestamps on Grey's post/Mod's login. Is Grey still town?

Soft suspicion on Grey, trying to break townreads.

My gut was yelling at me though, and who knows what will happen tonight?.

WOOOO NIGHT WIFOM!


Heads. will. roll.


PEdit: This doesn't sound like paranoia, though, Grey. It's more like "oh, don't

you

think X could be scum? It's not that Dazzy thinks that any of the bloc players are scum, it's that he is trying to break townreads by layering soft suspicion on players that are ridiculously protown.

[Tierce]

Today:

Last night I nominated Tierce because I did see her as most pro-town. Use that how you will.

Earlier today:

Tierce's little "vengekill" frenzy is something I haven't decided on the legitimacy of.

Could be real, and that's where I'm leaning now.

Glork is an early town read.

As of end of D1, I was reading inte and

[Tierce]

as weakTown

and majiffy as weakScum.

Yeah calling bullshit on that MVP vote for me.

[Tierce]

Hmmm

A problem for tomorrow. Slandaar needs death, and Inte is upgrading himself rapidly.

Slandaar is dead. He was hammered.

I'm going on ahead because huh one of us will probably not survive the odds and

oh geez what are the odds of Tiercetown dying N2

. ._.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)

(6) Slandaar – pizzadudes7, Glork, GreyICE, Tierce, BBmolla, inte

(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) Glork – PeregrineV

Not voting

: Dazzy

Deadline

: Saturday 7 April 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

Slandaar has 8 posts elsewhere since his last post here, which was his claim.

There's

no way

a town player doesn't want to add more information to the game than what he did, with over two hours between that post and his last registered activity on the site.


[/saulres]

[Tierce]

I'm going on ahead because huh one of us will probably not survive the odds and

oh geez what are the odds of Tiercetown dying N2

. ._.

I'm not that sure that those cups of coffee didn't include alcohol.

EBWOP: "one of us will probably not survive the

night

"

[Tierce]

PV-scum had little reason to help Malee-town catch up on the thread. Some people say scum is more likely to do secretarial duties in a game, but I think that one showed a type of proactive kindness and eagerness to get scumhunting going that does not easily come from scum. Besides, the whole raging against you felt natural and genuine.

As said before, towntell on BB's slot because Tebow appeared to have no knowledge of who the scumteam was. Minor, but usable.

That pool is good. Don't forget Ghostlin.

I think dice plan = good.

We are likely originally 10:3/9:3:1, right? This means that, if we have just lynched scum, we should be 7:2/6:2:1/6:3:0 (Slandaar SK on last one). Do the math from there, I'm incredibly sleepy and can't figure out if a vig on lynchpool would be good.

[Tierce]

As said before, towntell on BB's slot because Tebow appeared to have no knowledge of who the scumteam was. Minor, but usable.

Tierce, have I literally had zero affect on this slot?

Ain't gonna tell you~<3

[Tierce]

As said before, towntell on BB's slot because Tebow appeared to have no knowledge of who the scumteam was. Minor, but usable.

Tierce, have I literally had zero affect on this slot?

Ain't gonna tell you~<3

Okay. I don't see why you should hide it though. You're not worried about getting nk'd?

I'm calling the slot town. What's your problem?

Do you intend to grab firmly onto the "but Tierce called me protown and she can read me well!" if I die tonight and you get run up? I don't expect to have 100% accurate reads on you, reading you is an evolutionary arms race as I said elsewhere. With each game I have to count additional layers of WIFOM and play the odds.

So no, you're not getting anything more accurate than this right now, because I am incapable of giving more and I am sleepy as hell but can't go to bed because schedule must be adhered to.

[Tierce]

No, silly. It's just that don't have a read on

you

. I have a read on your slot, which is townish because Tebow seemed genuine against me on D1 and had that minor tell on page 1 pre-crash, but not a

Tierce Certified BB Read

^TM. I know you probably replaced in in hopes of drawing a town slot and getting easily read by me, but I don't

know

what alignment you got.

These things take time and your attempts to force it doesn't help, if you are town.

Was busy in town during most of today and then got busy hounding down Slandaar and Dazzy. Now I'm exhausted and can't brain, so I'm not going to throw down further Tierce Certifications of Alignment because I'd bungle that up.

Again, you care too much about my read on you. Shoo. Go be Awesome. Provide more info, that's more likely to yield results than poking at me for a definite read on you, because no one listens to the reads of the dead anyway (

sorry Glork

).

[Tierce]

And?
Is that all you have to say about what has happened today?


What the hell, man. Why do several players in this game make CES sound like a loquacious chatterbox.

This should not feel like pulling teeth.

[Tierce]

What BB said about me calling myself town. Yes, it's annoying--sorry. But it's not scummy.

This is an amazing OMGUS, and I'm trying to figure out if it's scummy. Food for thought.

Grey did not declare Ghostlin town for one action. I was the one who said his vote on StefanB/BBmolla when he could have jumped on Slandaar (most likely scum) was very good (though in retrospect, with my current townreads, it's actually a red light and requires review tomorrow).

Since I can now say this, my original scumread on Ghostlin was due to a (then ongoing) game in which he had flipped scum and was acting very similarly to this game. On closer inspection, the comparison doesn't seem to hold.

As scumbuddies, I would powerbus Grey like a boss. I am not scum, and I think Grey is town. You're right, if we were scum together it would make the whole trading votes situation make me look awesome and selfless and super townie while not taking any actual risks, but I've been bending over with protown actions for most of today. (Yes, yes, I know, nauseating. Btw, by ridiculously protown I was actually referring to the other three because reckless I-don't-care abandon from

me

, but anyway.) My reply as for Grey being town is NOT wrong at all. Glork posited a very clear explanation as to why Grey is very unlikely to be scum, and I agree with it. Post 366, pointed out by

Slandaar

of all people, is not coaching--it's me trying to pull the confrontational level down. I know that, as scum, there's little else I love more than to see Grey tunnel town to their grave while being obnoxious and loud.

For scum meta. (Also Glork and GreyICE town meta.) That's a completely different definition of cowardly.

The MVP quotes say:
"I nominated Tierce because I did see her as most pro-town."
Come D2:
"I haven't decided on the legitimacy of Tierce's little "vengekill" frenzy.
Glork is an early town read."
"At the end of D1, I was reading inte and [Tierce] as weakTown."
And now this, from your latest post:
"Going into N1 you were my top pro-town rank followed by Glork."

So... when day started today, you said that inte and I were weak town reads on the end of D1. Glork did not feature on that list.

I just fail to see how your strongest town reads on D1 are three

weak

town reads, since you were reading me as weakTown, inte as weakTown and apparently Glork as weakTown too (where did that come from, again?). They are far too soft, uncompromising reads. I am not afraid of changing my reads, heck, as town I've been known to tunnel on scum, call them town and tunnel someobe else who then flips town. :/ But your reads... meh. You do not take strong stances, those reads are weaselly.

It's not that you changed your read on me, it's that on early D2, you show no record of having a good, solid townread on me from D1. You have an "early town read" on Glork". Why did the MVP go to me and not Glork, then?


PEdit: Ghostlin has not been on MS.

PeregrineV, you know better about my town meta. MwtK had Tiercetown completely confused about why I was alive.

As for Glork, you are clearly not reading the thread. He changed his mind on Slandaar. As town does. Seriously, Glork is town, and so is pizza. I can't make this any clearer.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch)

(6) Slandaar – pizzadudes7, Glork, GreyICE, Tierce, BBmolla, inte

(1) GreyICE – Slandaar
(1) PeregrineV – Ghostlin
(1) Glork – PeregrineV

Not voting

: Dazzy

Deadline

: Saturday 7 April 20:00 CET

[Tierce]

We're waiting on the mod, Grey. European timezone, etc.

[Tierce]

The Majiffy kill is kind of odd based on what I remember.

Why?

I guess it's just that majiffy wasn't very high on my town reads, and I don't see the benefit of offing him when there are several people who have expressed suspicion of him. That is, I thought there would have been higher-priority targets for scum based on majiffy's D1 play.

Bleah. To be fair, I rarely see people do NK analysis these days, but most town who does that tries to reach conclusions of sorts, iirc. Dazzy reaches no conclusions at all, it's just this vague sense of oddity and weirdness about the kill. I may be burying myself in confirmation bias, but this seems scummy WIFOM from scum who opted for a suboptimal NK.

Elsewhere, Dazzy calls Majiffy a scumkill. This may be relevant.


I did a review of Dazzy's first Newbie game (his game with Ghostlin) and the Dazzy we see in this current game is much less willing to offer his own thoughts and conclusions. Up until his post on me, everything is

vague

, like he is waiting on everyone else to jump in and give their own conclusions first so he can agree with them after the fact. This is scummy, because it is opposed to town proactiveness. Even his post about me was "theory! ...but no real conclusion, this might be nothing..."


PEdit: Hey now. We Europeans are

bad Apples

good people!

[Tierce]

Mhm.

I've never played so selflessly. This is a terrible loss, with the lynches we had. Sorry, Johoohno, but this setup is very bad.

And I was absolutely right to think BB was caring too much about my read on him.

[Tierce]

And I was absolutely right to think BB was caring too much about my read on him.

That was part town gimmick, part me wondering how long before you realized I was scum.

The second half of that reasoning was what gave me pause. If you were town, you would expect me to read you perfectly well and would not have insisted on it so much at that stage.

Dead QT
Can we have the scum QT?


And sorry for the grumping, Grey. You had no way of realizing you were a miller, but neither did we--so the suspicion was understandable, and particularly painful after I turned myself inside out to get you through N2.

Why did you breadcrumb doc?


Seriously, this hurts, after I did just about everything in D2 to push town forward regardless of whether I survived--and I

did

help town, there were scum lynches D2, D3, scum vigged... and a loss. Ow. ;_;

[Tierce]

Race cop.
With a secret miller.
And a godfather.

I don't even.

[Tierce]

Yeah, I caught it. Being paranoid helps.

So being BP was why you claimed reflexive roleblocker. I was wondering how the claim matched your actual role and why you would breadcrumb that.


This game was very silly, and this is a gentle description of the absurd outcome.

[Tierce]

I was trying to keep Majiffy alive through N1. >_< I wanted to call him town at the start of D2, so when he died I was completely thrown in for a loop.

Grey, we... didn't know.
No one did.
You can hardly blame us. ;_:


And yes, I nom'd Glork for MVP N1.


PEdit: Because your team was derping and was lucky enough to have a fourth player named This Whole Bloody Setup.

[Tierce]

Also thinking glork is cop of some sort with his insistence on pizza town. He said it twice. Also feels like a tierce/glork neighbor thing. Tierce is insisting on town glork and there are only a few ways that town is that certain.

Neighbors? No. Gobbie trusts Glork, that's how.

Plus I caught the repeated cop softclaims.

[Tierce]

It's not butthurt. It's a setup that is heavily skewed toward scum, and it makes no sense that a 13p game in which you mislynch ONCE you end in a scum win.

And no, it was not their fault, so don't you even try. They couldn't expect a double scumkill, a secret miller and BP scum. They did the best with the info they had.

[Tierce]

I think my stance in this can be summed up with "cool concepts mashed together do not a balanced setup make, and when experimenting with new mechanics, keep everything else as simple as possible".

When even your scumteam is confused with the night kills and they know there is a bus driver and a MVP mechanic, you're probably overdoing it.