Open 386 - Lovers Mafia - Game Over

[Kamikrazy]

Vote: DeityKabuto

for being the last to confirm.

[Kamikrazy]

Those questions are useless and just stall the game.

I'll be voting you if DK doesn't come back.

We don't have any way to gain information in this game, so I don't think that those questions are entirely pointless. Some of them are stupid like Avatar vs Batman, but requiring players to pick out a player in the game can actually provide some useful information later in the game. As a town member, you shouldn't ever have to worry about questions like #3 and #6 as you can answer them as honestly as possible where as scum needs to figure out how to tailor their response in a way that makes them look town. Do they identify their partner in a question like #6 or ignore him completely? Etc etc...

With that said, i'll answer the questions later tonight when i've got some free time.

[Kamikrazy]

Alright I just got home so i've got some free time to answer these questions.

1. Do you like Tangents?

Not really. I find random tangents to be completely counterproductive towards winning. I'm here to win first, and make friends later. If you want to talk about something completely off-topic, you should do so in the off-topic section of the forums.

2. Who's ID do you like the most in this game appart from yourself?

DeityKabuto. Kabuto was one of my favorite pokemon.

3. Do you think the Town will win this game in Day 1?

I think a day two win is much more probable, but I wouldn't rule out a D1 win.

4. Jackal's Cat looks creepy. Agree?

No.

5. Do you love WIFOMs?

Never heard of a it before.

6. Who would you most want to be partners with when you are scum in this game?

Never played with anyone in this game before so I can't really say.

7. Chocolates or Apples?

Chocolate

8. Maths or English?

English

9. The Dark Knight or Avatar?

Dark Knight

10. How many times have you played on this site so far (include the ongoing games during the crash)?

1

[Kamikrazy]

This is going to come off as a bit rude so I apologize, but i'm not sure if i'm comfortable with a Kassadin lynch. From reading his past games (I remember one specifically prior to the crash where he got lynched D1 as a cop) his posting just always comes across as scummy. His poor english inherently makes his posts look scummy and I don't think that warrants a lynch in a game where we are only allowed two lynches.

Although I'm not really keen on Policy Lynch in this game, I'm fine with Kass PL right now.

You say you're not fine with a PL and then say you're fine with a PL? Sounds to me like you're trying to sound as neutral as possible while still trying to push for a Kassadin lynch.

[Kamikrazy]

Said I'm not very "keen" as in I won't be partying all over for his death. But "fine" if that's the decision of the Town.
Actually, your last post Kamikrazy, is by far the scummiest post so far I've seen in this game.
Why bring up past games for this? And why even apologize for your own opinion?
This makes it easier for us. Kami and Kass Team sounds pretty obvious right now.
Also, I very much agree with Vincent in post45.

My post is scummy for pointing out a poor wagon and your subsequent push for said wagon?

/sigh...

[Kamikrazy]

Your post is scummy because you purposely misinterpreted my post and tried to protect a no-good lurker.
You are definitely on my scummy list.

Explain how I misinterpreted any of your posts.

In the future, i'll let you continue on your poor band wagons so as not to seem like i'm defending players.

[Kamikrazy]

Your post is scummy because you purposely misinterpreted my post and tried to protect a no-good lurker.
You are definitely on my scummy list.

Explain how I misinterpreted any of your posts.

[Kamikrazy]

Although I'm not really keen on Policy Lynch in this game, I'm fine with Kass PL right now.

You say you're not fine with a PL and then say you're fine with a PL? Sounds to me like you're trying to sound as neutral as possible while still trying to push for a Kassadin lynch.

Said I'm not very "keen" as in I won't be partying all over for his death. But "fine" if that's the decision of the Town.

That's not me misinterpreting your posts, that's you being incapable of getting your point across properly. Don't confuse the two.

Kami, you're not going to move your vote elsewhere, or do you not find anybody scummy right now?

If I was to move my vote, it would be towards someone like Shotgun or Kondi for trying to push a stupid wagon and force a lynch in a game where we are only allowed two lynches. However, my play style doesn't usually involve moving my vote around to put pressure on players. I prefer to pressure players by questioning their decisions rather than put pressure on them by just voting.

[Kamikrazy]

What was the point of that? Your reads boiled down to anyone that agreed a PL is a town and anyone who thinks that is a bad idea is scum.

Flashing Red Lights: SCUM WANT A QUICK LYNCH IN A GAME WHERE THERE IS ONLY TWO LYNCHES, NOT TOWN.

You want me to actually point out someone for being scummy: You.

You have continually pushed for a quick lynch on someone in a game where we are only allowed two lynches. I would prefer to lynch someone who is scum in a game where our lynches are limited rather than someone we dislike. PL in a game like this is more scummy than it is town and you calling my belief of that nonsensical is laughable.

You say that me/vincent scum pair is probable and yet both of us are off of the Kassadin wagon. That makes absolutely no sense at all, if we are a scum team why wouldn't we hammer a lynch that is sitting on L-1? If we're a scum team, why would I be pushing so vehemently for people to get off a PL wagon on Kassadin?

Lastly, i'm more than comfortable voting Kassadin if you actually provide a reason he is scummy.

Vote: Drmyshotgun

Mod Edit: Changed use of disallowed color (

red

) to bold+underline.

[Kamikrazy]

Vincent can you explain the point behind your post please?

Perhaps i'm missing something, but that just seems to be pointing out the obvious right now which doesn't help us.

[Kamikrazy]

UNVOTE:


Kamikrazy is a scum read for me. He's been pushing on drmyshotgun, my biggest townread, in almost every post, and I don't like the way he's going about it. First of all, he hasn't bothered telling us why our view is wrong. Plus, I've been doing the same thing - heck, I

started

the PL idea and have shown less reasoning towards it - yet he chooses to only zone in on drmyshotgun. I also REALLY don't like his WIFOM in Post #72, where he says "If I were scum...". If you were scum, you would be convincing people you are town. Hammering Kassadin at L-1 does not make people think you're town. Convincing people to get off of a PL wagon does. Ergo, WIFOM.

VOTE: Kamikrazy

I have explained a multitude of different times that I think any PL in a game with a limited amount of lynches is a terrible idea. Why do you feel like I haven't done an adequate job of explaining this?

Additionally, you've made a one-liner post since i've started defending Kassadin versus Shotguns continual insistence on the lynch. I'm not sure how you can act as if you are even in the same boat as him.

[Kamikrazy]

It's simple, I would rather take two shots at killing scum even if it means pulling teeth with someone at LyLo. There's a shot that we can end the game right now, and I think our best bet at winning the game is utilizing every opportunity for a win we can get. If that ends up coming as a scum read from Kassadin then so be it, but I want our lynch to be on someone we are most confident is scum.

In short, why worry about LyLo when we can win right now?

In #44 I just said in general I don't want to PL and then pointed out the hypocrisy in his statement.

[Kamikrazy]

Let me reword that, actually.

You would prefer to lynch scum, but you call drmy scummy for wanting to PL instead of lynching scum. However, that is because drmy doesn't have any other scumleads. Your only scumlead is on drmy. How can anybody lynch scum if nobody has a scumread to go for?

If we could actually progress away from this whole PL ordeal we could actually get some information to work with.

[Kamikrazy]

Heilograph is leaning scum for me. He seemed to be in RVS until his last two posts. His unvote and then revote worries me. He also doesn't seem to have much of a reason at all to be voting Kassadin. @Heilo: Why did you say you didn't want Kassadin lynched today, and then vote him right after? What changed between those two posts?

In the midst of all this arguing between PLing and defending myself, I completely overlooked this. I would be more than comfortable with a Heilo wagon. There was a three hour window between Heilo saying he didn't want to lynch Kass and then saying that he did because he's been inactive. Nothing at all about #65 is even true...Add on to the fact that he justifies his vote by trying to get the game more active while being the least active player; that doesn't bode well with me.

Vote: Heilograph

[Kamikrazy]

Requesting a prod on Heliograph - It's been almost a day and a half since he's last posted.

As it stands this game isn't likely to progress anywhere until Helio starts responding and possibly (Although not likely) Kassadin starts to actually contribute. Given that, can we try to do something productive in the mean time like looking more in depth into the possibility of a Helio-scum?

A couple of things to note that haven't been brought up yet:

Shotgun, you say that you initially got a town read on Helio for wanting to PL lynch. However, as far as I can see his vote wasn't a PL vote at all. This differentiation between Kondi/Your votes and his is definitely worth noting.

I also really don't like his answer to #6 during the RQS. I don't know why this wasn't addressed at all, but this is the most passive answer you could possibly give.

[Kamikrazy]

Its alright to Hammer.

Booo no it's not.

[Kamikrazy]

Nawh, not really. Way i view it that Dr. seems to be the scum choice for me. He is running this game completely. While being a contributing town-member, is perfectly alright. Im starting to get the feeling that he is a little more "evil-doing" than first thought.

We aren't going to lynch someone based off of that. There are a few reasons to lynch Shotgun, none of which have to do with him being a contributing town-member. Is it possible that Shotgun is scum? Absolutely, and I think him and Kondi are smart enough to pull off their play style and abuse the lack of knowledge from the other players. However, that's just my gut saying that their over the top support of each other and general play style is "smart" scummy and we sure as hell are not going to lynch someone for that right now.

If Dr. is the seem choice for you, why don't you vote him?

[Kamikrazy]

I'm naturally a patient person so I almost always prefer to go the cautious route. Normally I would prefer to wait a day or two just to see if we can squeeze any more information out of him, just because there is no harm in waiting.

Add on to the fact that with Vincent being replaced I think we should see what the replacement's thoughts are on the game. He's been one of the most passive players so far, and I think we can gain a lot more knowledge from that slot.

It sucks that this game has been going slowly, but I don't think that means we should rush things. I would rather take our time trying to ensure a win rather than rushing the game along for no reason.

@Helio - If you think Shotgun is scum, who do you think is his scum-buddy?

Potential information gained from not rushing a lynch:
1) Find out what Kassadin's thoughts are on the scummiest players.
2) Find out who Helio thinks is the most likely Shotgun scum-buddy
3) Find out Vincent's replacement thoughts on the game

That's to much information to pass up just because Shotgun is an impatient player.

[Kamikrazy]

/sigh...You're assuming that the responses to #1 and #3 would have no way of impacting who we would have ended up lynching today...

[Kamikrazy]

Okay, so Vincent has been replaced. The new guy looks definite scum. Kass, I know you are on Town side.
Kondi, I believe you are on our side too.
We should have gone with Kami lynch. Fuck.

What about Saulres makes him definite scum? If he's definite scum, why not put a vote on him and why did you drop this case so quickly?

Apologies Helio, but We will win this game. The Town WILL prevail.

This post is really scummy to me. There is no reason to ever say anything like this unless you're trying to buy town cred.

No this DOES NOT clear you guys. Why would you want to hammer an innocent Townie and then get questioned and attention to yourself on Day 2??

Kondi hammered Helio, an innocent Townie, and no one is questioning his decision there. I don't see your point here.

And yes i totally agree with this post.. Seems like Sauleris wanted to lynch someone ASAP

Sauleris specifically said that he didn't want to lynch anyone quickly and he's holding off his vote now. How in the world could you interpret him as wanting to push a quick lynch? Alternatively, if you're looking at someone for pushing a quick lynch as being scummy there are plenty of other fish out there to fry for that reason.

@Saulres: If you think I'm scum team with Kondi, vote Kondi instead. What's the difference?

Seriously? This post was just so...dumb...I can't understand it unless its you flailing. There's a MASSIVE difference and i'm amazed that you can't see the difference. Just because you're a potential scum pair doesn't mean that one player is leaning to be scummier than another. Why would you not place your vote on the scummier of the two players on the off chance that you actually got them paired wrong?

You said I'm the most Town among the players left. Why go for another person? Shouldn't Town unite?

...Just because a player seems like he's town doesn't mean that he has the best course of action.

[Kamikrazy]

The only viable scum team I can find right now is a Kass/Saul...I'll try to break down the game and see if I can actually find something scummy between the two other than PoE.

[Kamikrazy]

If I'm scum Kami, who's my pair?

Read the end of my post. I honestly can't find a partner which is why i'm not voting you. The only person I could conceivably see would be Saulres, but I don't think he would open the day off being so aggressive if he was your partner. That just wouldn't make sense coming from a player who is offering a fresh perspective into the game.

Potential Vincent/Kassadin:

Vincent is extremely passive D1. In fact, he almost ignores Kassadin entirely and the wagon on Kassadin. He questions him once and outside of that completely ignores him. It seems to me like he was just letting me defend his buddy because he gained nothing from trying to defend him as well.

There doesn't seem to be anything substantial between Kassadin and Saulren though. The only thing worth mentioning is Kassadin voting Saulren, which honestly given Kassadin's play could just be an extremely poor attempt at busing.

[Kamikrazy]

Another experiment

Vote: Drmyshotgun

Who was online when you did this?

[Kamikrazy]

Kassadin is voting for Saulres (Vincent) at the moment, Kami. Do you still think they can be a pair?

Yes, I do and here's why. Here are the list of players that have been on at the same time since Kassadin has put in that vote:

Me/You
Kondi/You
Me/Kass
Me/Kondi

All of us have been on simultaneously to quick hammer that and no one ever capitalized on it which means one thing: I think Kass is almost definite scum.

There are therefore only two possibilities:

1) Kass/Saul is scum team, which is why there hasn't been a hammer
2) Saul is town, Kass is scum. Scum buddy #2 obviously can't quick hammer.

[Kamikrazy]

Me and you are online together right now with the capability to quick hammer so...

[Kamikrazy]

No, that's not a guaranteed scum team Kondi. All that it means is that there is DEFINITELY one scum between the two, but not necessarily both of them.

[Kamikrazy]

Yup.

I'm not sure what else we can work with right now, just waiting on Kass/Saul's reactions at this point.

[Kamikrazy]

Shotgun explain all your latest posts please...Are you upset, happy, anything?

[Kamikrazy]

Actually, Kassadin/Kami is confirmed not to be a team as well, due to drmy's self-vote.

And while not confirmed, I don't think you or shotgun are kassadin scum buddies because Scum wouldn't bus their partner that hard on D1.

So that means...We've found our scum team?

[Kamikrazy]

We know that one of Kassadin/Saul is scum. We know that me/Kass isn't a possible scum team, and my above post outlined the EXTREME unlikely hood of a Kass/Kondi or Kass/Shotgun team. That means that the only possible scum partner Kass can have is Saul.

And that's our win right there, by lynching Saul.

If anyone can find any holes in my plan let me know, but it's a pretty clear cut lynch and win to me.

[Kamikrazy]

That's the beauty of it, it doesn't matter if i'm partners with Saul. Or if you are, or if shotgun is.

Based on what we know right now the only possible scum teams involve Saul.

To break down the facts:

One of Kass/Saul is definitely Scum.
Kass only viable partner is Saul.
That means that the only possible scum teams involve Saul: Saul/me. Saul/Kondi. Saul/Shotgun. Saul/Kass

It doesn't make a damn difference, all that matters is we are lynching off the guaranteed scum right there.

[Kamikrazy]

Not so quick Kondi. I'm pretty sure my plan is foolproof and i'm 99% sure i'm right, but on the off chance that I overlooked something let's at least hear what Saul has to say.

[Kamikrazy]

Kami is not clear. Kami can be partners with Saulres.

Still doesn't matter if we lynch Saulres.

[Kamikrazy]

Shotgun can you see any flaws in my plan?

[Kamikrazy]

I guess that leaves Kassadin.

If Saul isn't scum then whoever is deserves a scummy.

[Kamikrazy]

Do you honestly think Kassadin would vote on Saulres?? In a Lylo? And not yet unvote after these conversations?

Given his play, yes i'm not that surprised. And I haven't seen him online since these conversations have taken place.

[Kamikrazy]

You put Kass at L-1 after that?

Vote: Saulres

[Kamikrazy]

Damn...Who was your partner?

[Kamikrazy]

Damn well played sir.

Oh well good game.

[Kamikrazy]

From your perspective your town, from our perspective you aren't...You can't just make an assumption like that and expect everyone to just blindly follow you because of it.

[Kamikrazy]

I didn't expect you to follow it blindly. What I expected was for you to question it and stuff. You said the reason you voted for me is because of my action. If you read my argument, there was nothing wrong with the logic of my action. So that in itself is not a lynchable offense. If you waited until I had more time I would have put together a case, and defended myself.

I'd also love to know why I looked so scummy from what I think was three posts.

I voted you because of Shotguns actions, not because of yours. I was convinced that shotgun putting Kass at L-1 was just a shot in the dark at trying to get a dumb hammer from town since you were guaranteed to lose.

Honestly even if you would have had time to put together a case i'm not entirely sure that you would ever be able to sway me away from you being the proper lynch.