Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[Magua]

Oh. Hai guiz.

I should probably read this game, but that sounds like effort and work.

Instead I'm going to post that I'm here and (allegedly) reading and we'll see what happens from that.

[Magua]

Going just over the stuff from today, probably read D2 tonight.

I'm assuming the message is flavor and, perhaps tasty and interesting, is not actually game-relatedly useful. Is this wrong?

Zar is some form of tracker?

@Yos:

Why are you clearing charter based on Zar's report?

[Magua]

Magua, what is your interpretation of the 2 deaths of the morning scene?

Operating theory is that a (even-Night?, given Yos' claim) vig shot Parama, and scum shot kanye.

Setup could be 9:3:1, given that it seems to be vanilla-less, but I would expect an SK kill to be targeted at an investigative role like you, and I can't readily believe that either the SK or mafia would shoot Parama.

@Vi:

If Nuwen is your primary lynch, why are you not voting her?
Pre-emptively, how would lynching Yos "explain the kill situation"?

[Magua]

There's no good explanation for what's going on, except that Yos is scum. If there is an even-Night Vig, then why hasn't that person claimed? Again, that would make things -quite- a bit simpler.

So your operating theory is that Yos-scum claimed the scum kill as a vig kill, before there was any evidence that there was actually a second killer.

Now there is evidence there's a second killer.

Yos could be scum lying about being a vig, in which case there has to be an SK or vig around to account for the second kill. And that SK or vig didn't shoot Yos.
Yos could be an SK who decided to claim pre-emptively (possible, I suppose, if bulletproof), but then that would mean that Yos is either an SK-pretending-to-be-a-vig by shooting Parama, or that the mafia shot Parama, both of which are =/
Or Yos is a vig.

I'm seriously not seeing your hang up over this.

*and the mod hints associated with your claim do not match your role at all

Elaborate.

@Zar:

There'd be an SK or vig, not both.

Really, dislike shos talking about the message, talking about his claim, talking about flavor research, apparently everything except the actual people playing the game.

[Magua]

Furcolow was a charmer; what is that role? is it possible that it is negating any night actions?

The only charmer I've ever seen is from a Slaxx game here: it's essentially a Cupid-type role, where you could make one person die if you died. Zero guarantee that the role is the same here, since it's not a standard thing. If this is it, I'd think it more likely that the target had already died rather than that Furcolow hadn't used it yet, but it doesn't really matter either way.

I will later, but I'm in a brainstorming moment that might show obvscum.

What did this turn up?

I really do want to lynch Magna today

It doesn't particularly trouble me if you think I'm PoE-scum, but for God's sake, don't confuse me with MoI.

My thoughts: I don't have many. I have a raging townread on shos, and a decent townread on Zar and charter.

Vi + Nuwen aren't partners if there is an SK.

I really see no way that Yos is an SK unless he's a bulletproof SK, and I don't really believe that there'd be two bulletproofs in a 13-player game. I'm slotting Yos as town.

Vi reads as scum, but I've only ever read Vi-scum games so there's some slight bias there.

Absolutely zero feelings on Nuwen.

That leaves this unapologetic sheeping of shos and charter and PoE: VOTE: Hiraki

[Magua]

Want to hear Zar's and chamber's report.

[Magua]

Anyway, is there any way we can just lynch Manga and move on? Does anyone, I mean anyone, have a theory for the role distribution in this game that would involve him being town?

Do I count? Because I have such a theory.

[Magua]

Operating theory now is you + Vi.

[Magua]

(Lulz ensue.)

[Magua]

I'm Antinous Mondragone, a bust of a god from the Roman Empire who protects the innocent.

I'm a protective role whose specific details I don't want to get into; I do know that I'm *not* responsible for the lack of deaths last Night.

(It does not make any sense to have two protective roles like this in a Mini, so while I saw Hiraki's claim at the end of the Day, I didn't comment on it because I didn't believe it, since it conflicted with my role. Given that I know I'm not responsible for the lack of deaths last Night, I'm pretty much omgwtfbbq in terms of the level of things that can stop a kill in this game.)

N1, Katsuki did not submit any action.
N2, upon replacing in, I protected chamber.
N3, I protected Zar.

[Magua]

As for a "name-function", if you're talking about

Astrid Sorel, curious child.

this, I don't have one actually. I'm The Louvre's mummy, and then it goes on into flavor in the same sentence. Which makes me wonder how you got your "name-function", since neither Magua nor shos appear to have one either.

I don't have one.

That said, meh on it being scummy. Could be difference between art/human roles, could just be Nuwen's role.

Problem is that for it to be a scumslip, either it has to be a difference between town/scum roles, which I see as unlikely, or it has to be that Nuwen is scum without a fakeclaim who did not match up her claim format with the format of her action role.

[Magua]

uh sorry, that question was supposed to be directd to Magua. and why do you not discuss your role fully?

Because there is an effect if I successfully protect someone, and springlullaby confirmed that the effect did not occur.

I'm not going to say what the effect is, because it'll give a clue as to a limitation in my protection.

Of course I'm *considering* lynching her. The thing is, at this point, it really wouldn't surprise me if she's telling the truth and flipped town. (It also wouldn't surpise me if she flipped scum.) On the other hand, I can't see any way magua could possibly be town. He apparently can't even think of a scenario where he's town and I'm [town], and since I know that I'm town...

I can consider it, I just think it less likely than you being town.

I'm aware that, especially with Hiraki claiming doctor, that my role is improbable. Yet so it is.

So let's ponder the possibilities about my claim for a moment, shall we?

1) I'm an SK or some other form of third party. Huge target on my back because I've claimed a protective role outside of lylo.
2) I'm mafia, and my kill failed. Well shit, maybe I claimed this to try to out some other protective role. Oh, except it's not lylo, so that would end poorly for me. Oh, and I already said I know I wasn't responsible for the protection and no one else is claiming anything possibly like a protection role.
3) I'm mafia and I shot shos, which failed my shot. Leaving aside the stupidity of shooting someone who claimed bulletproof[1], I, as the reasonable mafia player that I am, immediately decide that faced with the possibility of an SK and faced with someone who is probably bulletproof, what I'm going to do is claim a protective role. That'll go well!

And to add on to all of this: I decide to claim something that's essentially already been claimed, and which I personally already had trouble believing even though I know it's my role.

[1] Given everyone else's claim, unless you (Yos) are really a JOAT, mafia either shot shos or Vi, and an SK (if existing, which, seems unlikely at this point) did as well.

[Magua]

Explain this to me. You protected Zar, the tracker - how do you know that you're not responsible for blocking a shot on his face?

You can't be a jailkeeper, because Charter has claimed results from N2 (and you're not calling Zar a liar for claiming results today).

Literally two posts above yours.

Because there is an effect if I successfully protect someone, and springlullaby confirmed that the effect did not occur.

I'm not going to say what the effect is, because it'll give a clue as to a limitation in my protection.

[Magua]

I want you to claim in full. There's a specific set of potential circumstances that makes today lylo for town, and it's increasingly likely that we're in that specific set of circumstances.

No. I've claimed all of the information that could possibly be pertinent. All further information is not useful to town, and is useful to scum.

I'm going to take a leaf out of Hito's book and play raise-your-hand-if-you-see-it. Raise your hand if you see it.

If by "it" you mean I never say whether I saved chamber or not, I will apologetically note that it seemed so obvious with the two kills that I had not successfully protected that it did not bear mentioning.

If you meant something else, kindly elucidate.

[Magua]

If you meant something else, kindly elucidate.

[Magua]

If I thought that the exact details might keep you from lynching me, I would give them. But I don't. I am a second (at the least) protective role in a game; the details don't change any of that.

Given that, I'm not giving the details. It won't keep me from getting lynched, but it can hurt if I don't get lynched. So.

[Magua]

Yos, is there anything to your role besides being a 1-shot vig who gets more shots if you hit scum?

[Magua]

Still on iphone. Why is magua online and not posting?

'cause I was reading.

I did skip pages 25-45 or so, but I've read the rest of it.

Stuff. The strong reads first:

Yosarian2: Town.
First, Hiraki's vision. Looking back on this with the accumulated evidence of the game, I read Hiraki's vision as "The person who killed Elmo is good (read: town)." St. Martin was a good guy -- this is highlighted in the episode of him giving his cloak. The vision is tied specifically to the death of Elmo, which Yosarian2 has claimed. Finally, charter confirms Yosarian's role.
Als, if Yosarian2 was bussing Furcolow D2, good job, sir, you win the internet. Yosarian2 is town.

Zar: Town.
Strongest townread from play alone. Furcolow outting his role is more or less icing on the cake; anything else requries a Zar + Furcolow scumteam which is lulz. Pushes all my buttons for what town should be.

-----

shos: Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.
Survivor+SK is not plausible; is either an SK, or is a Survivor and there is no SK. Zar's visions (1606, 1848) indicate survivor, in which case I do not believe there is an SK. Evidence is that there's no SK anyways, due to the lack of kills.

Bulletproof survivor is meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, but I'm willing to let it alone.

The one thing paranoid-me wants to verify is that it's not shos who sent the visions to Zar D3 and D4. So, to that end:

@shos:

Kindly send someone (preferably Zar) a message.

charter: Null.
Can't be an SK if there is one, can't be scum if there's only one left, due to Zar's report. Bad at reading disengaged, uncaring play. Ignoring almost entirely due to Zar's track. Very little desire to lynch.

Nuwen - Slight town.
Maybe I'm just being lazy, but the role claim, and the thought that went into the questions as presented is town. Posts have read as town, though not as town as Zar.

@Nuwen:

Have you used your questions for toDay yet? If so, what are they? If not, given the answers you've received before, I'd advise against conjunctions and try simpler questions:
1. Did someone try to kill Vi N1?
2. Did someone try to kill Vi N3?
3. Did Parama kill kanye N2?

Vi - Scum.
Yeah, so here we go. The big stuff:
- Role (mechanically) doesn't fit with the other roles. Many of the roles are heavily flavor-based (compare Zar's reports to a normal tracker's) or mechanically weakened (Yosarian losing his shot if he kills town), but how the role works is understood and described. Even shos', which, being 3rd party one way or another, is likely to be the strangest of the roles, is explained in terms of what it does. Vi's claim is different -- make this choice, and *stuff* happens. What stuff? No one knows, including Vi. That doesn't fit.
- Reaction to Yos' vig claim, specifically mentioning that he's one-shot. At first, I thought this was a slip (some form of rolecop result), but it's obviously not because Yos was never a one-shot vigilante -- still don't like it.
- Nonsensical PR seems like Vi-trying-to-muddy-the-waters.

-----

Overall, Vi (and shos, but, flavor) is my only scumread. This is problematic, because I can't really believe that it's 10:2:1 with the 1 being a survivor, which means SK (shos) or there's two mafia left and I have no clue who would be a partner to Vi.

VOTE: Vi

[Magua]

God, I'm turning into MoI with his quote-striping.

The base of my role is that I find clues. I thought that seemed obvious.

But that doesn't jive with what you described as the results of your actions in 1844, to whit:

N1: You choose 2nd floor, get an undescribed scenic tour. Very =/ on you not describing this, given how much this game relies on flavor and how much hay was made out of Hiraki/tricolor, for instance.
N2: You choose 1st floor, get 'attacked' and 'sent back to your sarcophagus'.
N3: You choose ground floor, chase off an attacker.

None of those feel like you "get clues", and nothing in your post in 1844 makes it seem like you feel you should get clues, or that you're missing out because you haven't gotten any clues, or what not; for the N3 action, you say that you think this was a block on someone trying to kill you, which is 180 degrees away from "get clues."

The thing is, my role is a little weird, but *I know what it does*. Everyone seems to know what their role does. Yours is murky. And in a game based so heavily on flavor, your results seem to be lacking the flavor. They feel fake; made up.

So you acknowledge that something is not a scum slip (so much as a reviewer slip) but still penalize me for it. Sure, let's go with that.

I acknowledge that it wasn't a slip of inside information. However, it was scummy to say because there's no town motive in saying it.

There are quite a few snippy responses that come to mind for this. The kindest one is that I really don't see how extraneous lines about not being able to taste cooked duck in honey and garlic (which I can't by the way) are "muddying the waters". I have to get it out once a post somehow some way. Read it, laugh if you like, and move on to the plain English of the rest of the post.

Humor me, then. *Why* do you, a mummy who is ostensibly missing some canopic jars, have to reference fowl in your posts? Mummification has nothing to do with birds, or Horus, or any sort of relation I can come up with. If it was lack of taste or other senses, why the fixation on birds?

Why am I your only scum read when you are deliberately keeping two people in your blind spot?
And why are you relying so heavily on claims to sort out {charter|Nuwen|Vi}?

Yos and Zar aren't in my blind spot. I solidly think each is town.

charter could be scum, but he can't be scum by himself, due to Zar's report. I trust Zar's report.
For Nuwen, I really like Nuwen's claim[1]. Secondly, I do not believe that you and Nuwen could be partners. So between the two of you, you're scummy and she's not.

I really couldn't care less about trying to "game" Nuwen's ability. If Nuwen is scum, then it does no good. If Nuwen is Town, then I doubt any answers would be that enlightening if previous history is any indication.

The cost for trying to do so: zero. Why would you *not* do this, even if you thought Nuwen was scum?

---------------------------------------

@Nuwen:

Multiball theory has a lot of problems, to whit:
- You have to assume that Yos is scum, because 4 scum + vig could mean lylo D2 which is lulz.
- There's really no explanation for the lack of kills N3.

Re: Mafia charmer, and role claims in general: I do not believe you can take specific role information from the flips. You can take general information (forensic investigator => some form of investigation role, art restorer => doctor, given that both those claims came from town), but for ones like "dreamer" or "charmer" I do not believe they match to previous usages.

(On a tangent, Elmo was almost certainly not a lucid dreamer. I had a theory that Elmo was responsible for Hiraki's visions N1, but that theory fell apart with Zar receiving visions N2/N3.

Still, Elmo was not a lucid dreamer in the same way that Hiraki, "art restorer", was not a Reviver.)

Of particular note is that springlullaby refuses to tell me what my roleflip would be if I died (the ????? in "Magua, Antinous Mondragone, a town ??????"). This makes me think that those are more "flavor role names" than "mechanic role names." You (Nuwen) personally may be different in that yours might easily be "Nuwen, Astrid Sorel, town curious child", but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that no one else's is predictable.

Hypothesis: If Zar were to ask springlullaby what his flip would be, he would get no response, even though it should obviously be something like, "Zar, The Broken Jug, town tracker".

@Zar:

Please try this experiment.

Oh, finally:

This is Vietnamese. It roughly means "mommy, mommy I saw a ghost" according to Google translator.

*points at the mummy*

Yeah, I feel dirty doing that, because lulzmodflavor-and-all, but I mean, if you're going to read the flavor looking for clues, don't ignore the obvious.

[1] dealwithit.jpg

[Magua]

@Zar:

Kindly confirm that shos sent you a message separate from the vision that you received.

Also, @Zar:

Kindly ask springlullaby via PM what you will flip as, as per my hypothesis in 1939.

---------------------------

Charter.

The problem with attacking charter is that Zar's report confirms he's not SK and not lone mafia. If he's scum, he has to have a partner.

Nuwen is wrong about Furcolow being an ascetic, and it hurts my head. The theory is that "Well, Furcolow is not a charmer like has been used in other games," and instead of going to the brain-dead obvious conclusion of "He's a rolecop," because of the information he outted, this somehow turns into "He's an ascetic, and thus charter is lying," and I'm all "wtf."

*Either Zar is scum with Furcolow, OR scum have a Role Cop.
*No Role Cop has been claimed, and no one has claimed a true Vanilla role. Therefore, the Role Cop is fakeclaiming. Therefore, their role must be unprovable.

Or Furcolow was the rolecop, OH SNAP.

Not if that neutral party is a bulletproof survivor. That's actually a REALLY elegant balancing mechanic for a multiball game in a mini. 2-2-1-8 prevents the survivor from becoming a kingmaker in EVERY possible endgame scenario.

I'm sorry, but what the fuck? Making a survivor bulletproof *guarantees* that they'll be kingmaker in every endgame scenario!

Kindly explain your thought process.

MAGUA CLAIM FULLY goddammit <_>

No. Simple as that. I'm a protective role. If you don't understand, I can't help you.

-----

Vi's vote on charter is the most opportunistic thing I've seen in this entire game.

@shos:

Please tell me, in like two sentences, why you're voting charter.

[Magua]

Yeah, you smarmy git, the difference is, I *have* claimed, and the details that I haven't claimed are because claiming them

doesn't help the town

but

helps the scum

.

The thing is, half the reason Nuwen, at least, is voting charter is because of his picture image name (1947), whereas you know that the mod provides pictures on demand (1949). You vote charter in spite of this.

Now, I realize the irony of arguing with you here -- if you're really a survivor, you don't care diddly squat who gets lynched (though I thank you for absorbing at least one kill). I'm just laboring under the assumption that you actually want town to win for some reason. So:

Why are you voting charter-who-was-tracked-by-Zar? You can say, "Lulz, I'm a survivor and I don't care," and I'd understand. But as long as you're actually trying to help the town, here...

@VI long post:
Rambrandt watching you?? AND YOU DIDNT SAY SO?!?!?!?!? MADAME RECAMIER WAS WATCHING THAT DUDE IN THE STARTING SCENE.

This is the sort of reason that I would've expected town-Vi to claim what happened when he claimed his action. Given all the rest of the flavor so far, this could've been a clue to a Rembrandt role in the game being town, or similar, but Vi not only doesn't mention it when he claims, he never mentions it at all. It doesn't fit.

[Magua]

just wandering: How comes the name of your picture is

270906_monalisa.jpg

while the others are

meteor_pew_pew.jpg
antinous.jpg
francoise.jpg
astrid.jpg

??

a google images of that provides this as the first result:
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/files/ima ... nalisa.jpg

mhm.

This is a really, really, really, really fucking weird post from someone who knows that the mod will give out fakeclaim images.

[Magua]

also, the fact that the mod sent such a thing to me does not mean he sent one to everyone. I'm independent - I thought I would be the only one getting such a message. did anyone else get one?

If you got one, scum got them. Guaranteed.

This is the report.
so...what's the problem with it?

It means that charter didn't kill anyone N2.

Right, that sounds just like a "charmer".

Turning down the notion of Furcolow being action-immune, okay sure, but how do you claim to know that he was a Role Cop?

Yet you're willing to go along with "Charmer? Oh, you mean ascetic?" Jesus. Give me a break. Charmer could just as easily mean rolecop as anything else: "Every Night you may talk to someone; you'll be so charming and persuasive that they'll tell you all about themselves..." Etc.

Furcolow outted a report. Furcolow's the rolecop. Occam's razor.

Why is Furcolow the rolecop?

I'm a Detective. Zar is a Tracker. Don't hammer.

That's why.

And why have you abandoned my point about charter (dropping Nuwen atm) being in your blind spot?

Charter is not in my blind spot. Charter is the second most likely person to be scum, after you. But I'm waaaaaaaay more into lynching you.

Four reasons:
- Zar's report.
- Charter's too scummy to be scum.
- I don't like your role.
- I don't like your play.

Nuwen's in my blindspot because her claim has bedazzled me.

[Magua]

Ok, Vi/shos, who is charter's partner?

Already sort of know what Vi's going to say, but maybe he'll surprise me. Curious what shos will say.

@Magua: I asked spring about the flip but the answer was evasive.

Yeah. The role names in the flips aren't indicative of much. None of them match up with actual mechanical role names, yet Vi/Nuwen are all, "Furcolow can't be a rolecop because 'charmer'"

[Magua]

I'm still curious about shos' objection to the picture that charter claimed.

Be a little less snarky and explain to me like I'm stupid how this works and why it's so damning: You were given a picture with your role. The mod then, unprompted, gave you additional pictures you could upload yourself? Were these links, like the cosmo one you gave for the Mona Lisa, or what? Were they already uploaded to postimage, or did the mod say you had to do that yourself? Do you think the image charter used was provided by the mod? Was other fakeclaim information provided (names, mechanics), or was it just the pictures? What date did you receive this message on?

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeee-sus Christ, this game.

[Magua]

No, I don't think that claim was meant to save Furthing - he barely resisted his own lynch after claiming out. I think the claim was intended to save his buddy and make the game easier for Charter by directing the other shooter(s) @ Zar.

Furcolow did this D2. The only evidence of another shooter at the time was Yos' claim on Elmo.
Further, for your Furcolow+charter theory to work, you have to account for Zar's report -- meaning there has to be a third scum member who could've made the kill N2.

So you have Furcolow + charter + ???, who are convinced enough that there's a second killer out there despite there being no second kill yet that they're willing to get one of themselves lynched in order to out that information? It doesn't even make sense -- even if everything up until that point was actually true, they'd be better off shooting Zar themselves and hoping that they didn't bite a bullet in return than to do something that *guarantees* one of them is lynched in the hopes that someone else would shoot Zar (and *that's* even ignoring the fact that if they had a kill fail N1, they'd probably assume Doctor, so that outting like that would make it *more* likely for Zar to be doc-protected....)

The possibilities I see are:
multiball 2-2-1-8 (survivor)
SK 3-1-9 (Shos = SK)
2-1-10 (Shos = SK)

You cannot believe charter+Furcolow 2 man scumteam. Zar's report defies you.
If there's an SK, where are the kills N1 and N3?

It's just a strange coincidence that Zar targeted the CHARMER and got no result N1 while the "flavorcop" supposedly did. If you're assuming SK/scum or just a single scum team, please tell me why that scum team would opt to rolecop AND singe-target block Zar on the same night instead of RBing elsewhere to catch as many powers as possible. This is the only way to explain TownZar's no-result; no town have claimed to have a roleblock. We know Magua isn't a jailkeeper and his slot didn't target N1 to boot. Hence, Charter probably didn't target Furthing and is probably claiming a result to create distance between himself and that role slot.

I can't explain Zar's N1 failure at this point -- I do agree that it doesn't make sense for the scumteam to roleblock and rolecop the same person N1. But your entire theory rests on an assumption that is, to be polite, way out there, but you go out of your way to ignore the other evidence that is more confirmed.

[Magua]

PPS: Nuwen, if this Day ends without you having asked your five questions and posted answers in thread, I will auto-policy-vote you for the rest of the game.

Just an FYI.

[Magua]

I should upload them to that site like he does. that's it. they were uploaded already to postimage

Confusion. These sentences seem to be in conflict with each other.

Jumping back: you think the Mona Lisa pic is fake because of the name 270906_monalisa.jpg, yes?

But your picture (meteor_pew_pew.jpg) is obviously taken from http://www.geekologie.com/2008/12/01/meteor-pew-pew.jpg. I'm seriously not getting why you're hung up on this.

[Magua]

I'm confirming, for the record, that I got messaged by someone claiming to be shos, and since shos is claiming to have messaged me, there you go.

UberNinja's and Hiraki's [role names] lined up pretty well actually.

Bullshit, unless Hiraki had some weird restriction that he couldn't protect people. And all we know about UberNinja is that he was an investigative role, so saying *that* lined up is meh.

Do me a solid and ask the mod what your roleflip will be. G'wan, do it. Mod won't say. Why won't the mod say? *Because the flips are not obvious.* See: Zar.

Vi, I snipped a whole bunch of suspicion of you and Zar. Tell me: Do you think Zar is town or scum?

I mean, just looking at the wording in Nuwen's role and how her two friends were destroyed by a weird energy, it really makes me think that Shos is the SK.

Nuwen never said that.

as a start the mod described how there is no rule that says not to post the picture that is sent with the role.
then, the mod said how she likes to play with people who try to break her setup, and therefore she doesn't want to add that as a rule. to that cause, she is giving me pictures that look the same as the role pm in the first page - other pictures of course, but with the same blurr of white-gray-black style.

@shos:

When did the mod say this? D1-ish, or did it occur later when the picture claiming started D3?

@Yosarian2:

I simply fail to fathom why shos-SK ever admits to having access to fakeclaim information. Or sending that message to Hiraki D1 and outting it D2. Or claiming Bulletproof, for that matter, D2; well, ok, maybe the last one I could see, but not combined with the other two.

@charter:

Hey. I want to believe that you're a bad lynch. But you got to post *something* of worth. Reads. Thoughts. Opinions on why you have flavor for the N3 failure on shos, but no flavor on the N1 failure on Furcolow.

[Magua]

...

(and by "..." I mean "I can't taste duck cooked in honey and garlic")

Unvote: charter
Vote: shos

(L-2)

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

There's no way, no how, that you laid down this vote without at least even checking what Nuwen's posted.

VOTE: Vi
VOTE: Vi
VOTE: Vi
VOTE: Vi
VOTE: Vi
VOTE: Vi

[Magua]

PEdit: Should add "as town" into that sentence, somewhere.

[Magua]

Opinions on why you have flavor for the N3 failure on shos, but no flavor on the N1 failure on Furcolow.

This is my bad; charter's N3 action was Yosarian; it was Zar who failed on shos N3.

[Magua]

Hiraki was an art toucher-upper. That makes quite a bit of sense for the Doctor he claimed.
Am I missing something, or what's this about Hiraki not protecting people?

You say "Hiraki's role (art restorer) is obviously a Doctor." You ignore that the "obviously" in this case is that if the role name were the real mechanic, Hiraki would be unable to protect a person -- he was an *art* restorer. But we know he was a doc because he said so, so you ignore this.

You say "UberNinja's role (forensic investigator) is obviously a *coughcoughmutter*" You have no idea what UberNinja's role was. Cop? Forensic investigator as described in Best Roles thread? Coroner-type role who learned what people's roles really were? No clue. Not obvious.

I can guarantee you that Zar does not flip as "Town Tracker", and Yos does not flip as "Town Vigilante." So there's another point that flavor role names != actual role names.

But, and here's the cognitive dissonance, you say, "Furcolow can't be a rolecop, because 'charmer' as rolecop makes no sense."

But more to the point, that's not why I'm voting shos.

Oh, do go on, then. Don't let me interrupt.

[Magua]

HEY NUWEN

PPS: Nuwen, if this Day ends without you having asked your five questions and posted answers in thread, I will auto-policy-vote you for the rest of the game.

Just an FYI.

[Magua]

PPS: Yos isn't scum.

[Magua]

I missed the memo. Did you just call Vi town?

[Magua]

Also, and I feel dumb for even having to explain this:

You want to use your questions after you see the flip? YOU USE THE FIVE NEW ONES YOU GET GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING TOMORROW. HOLY SHIT.

[Magua]

Initial read through: Nuwen, if you ASKED THE MOD SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS....

1. Did someone try to kill Vi N1?
2. Did someone try to kill Vi N3?
3. Did Parama kill kanye N2?

PERHAPS THERE'D BE LESS YELLING.

[Magua]

1) It annoys me when people say "We know that Vi was shot N3."

2) I don't believe there's an SK. My reasoning here is a little circular, but screw it, I'm sticking with it. If shos is a BP SK, then mafia know they have to lynch him. So far, none of the people I suspect of being mafia (Vi, Nuwen, charter) are actually on board with lynching shos. So they're not afraid of him.

3) Doubt there's an active roleblocker in the game, because I would expect Zar or charter to be roleblocked if so. This is in slight conflict with Zar claiming his action failed N1; possible Furcolow was a roleblocker, but then LOL ROLECOP needs explaining, and the most probable reason there is that Zar is partner, which again gets highly circular. I'm shelving this for now, but it's worth keeping in mind.

Nuwen is not my prime choice for lynch today. Aggression is a towntell. Paranoia is a towntell. Yos can go on about how Nuwen's been trying to fast-talk, but Yos is either accidentally or deliberately misinterpreting what Nuwen says about things -- eg, Nuwen didn't say Vi was shot N3, Nuwen said, "Why wasn't doc-protected-N1-Vi killed last Night?" which is entirely different and in keeping with Nuwen's previous thought processes. Gee, it would've been nice to get an answer about whether Vi was shot last Night, though...

(I do not see where Nuwen flipped to "Vi-is-town" though.)

In terms of a lynch, I want Vi dead. All of the possible pairings I see include Vi-as-scum, and my current operating theory is that scum tried to shoot shos last Night, not Vi.

If I can't get Vi lynched, charter would be the second.

Yos-lynch is bad. shos-lynch is bad.

[Magua]

Your current theory is that scum tried to shoot the guy who claimed bulletproof on day 2? The scum would have to be complete idiots for that to make sense.

Counterpoint: Your current theory is that the scum tried to shoot Vi-a-possible-lynch-candidate-over-Zar-the-tracker?

At least shos was in the category of "people unlikely to be lynched" during N3, unlike Vi.

[Magua]

seriously, you think that after claiming BP days ago scum would target me?

I think this is more likely than Vi getting shot, yes.

what do you think about charter?

I'm 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% that one, if not both scum, are in Vi/Nuwen. Since both Vi/Nuwen jumped on that charter lynch so fast it hurt, I don't believe he's a partner. His play has sucked, his reads are nonexistent, he hasn't really done anything with his role, but those are all just antitown things, not scummy, and the heat he's drawn on himself for most of them seems like the thing that scum would avoid.

All that, charter-lynch beats no lynch.

But I'd much prefer Vi lynch.

[Magua]

Hey Magua. Watch this.
Vote: Nuwen (L-1)
etc.

I watched that, and then I watched this, and by the time I was done, I didn't know what was going on anymore, but I knew it was good.

@shos:

How many mafia do you think are still alive?

[Magua]

@shos:

How many mafia do you think are still alive?

[Magua]

I wonder if I should hammer or not. on the one hand, if we lynch scum, then I'm pretty sure town will prevail, and so will I. on the other hand, if we lynch town, people might want to lynch me to prevent me rejoining mafia or something alike..and I'm pretty sure nuwen will flip town..

Explain the thought process behind this sentence, please.

[Magua]

But if you think there are two living mafia, and we lynch town, town wouldn't have majority and couldn't lynch you even if it wanted to.

Re: one mafia theory: one mafia theory makes your charter vote super bad.

[Magua]

Yos is an SK.
Furc is mafia along with someone else, preferably charter.

charter can't be in a 2-man mafia due to Zar's report.

Yos kills Parama. Parama fakeclaimed to have info that Yos killed, right? he drew lots of attention to him. so Yos kills him and gets off the hook.

Parama fakeclaimed a guilty on Hiraki. Yos badgered him to recant.

So consider the possibilities:
Before Parama recants, Yos-SK has no reason to care about a guilty on Hiraki. Lynch Hiraki, shoot Parama would be a fine plan; or lynch Hiraki and when he flips town, a Parama lynch is in the bag.
After Parama recants, Yos-SK has no reason to want or need Parama dead.

Night three: scum try to kill Vi again, now knowing that Hiraki protected him N1 and therefore he will not survive again. Yos doesn't shoot in fear of being tracked.

If Yos-SK is worried about being tracked, why does he simply not kill Zar?

why shouldn't scum help voting me.? I'm BP, you know.

It's *specifically* because you're a survivor.

Or: if you are a survivor, and there are two remaining mafia, and we lynch town today and town gets shot tonight, then tomorrow you can essentially lay down a vote and say "This person is getting lynched" and it'll happen -- either you lay your vote down on town and both mafia pile on, or you lay your vote on mafia and when there's no quicklynch, town will pile on.

[Magua]

If Nuwen is town, I'm 100000000000000000000000000000% that Vi is scum.

If Nuwen is scum, I could go either way on Vi.

Think Yos2 is town.
Think Zar is town.

Both of these are based on play, not on mechanics.

Think shos is pretty much what he claims. Do not think he's scum, really do not think he's SK.

Regardless of the Nuwen flip, I fully expect to get shot tonight. Zar, if you track me, I'm going to eat your babies.

[Magua]

Oh, this got unlocked before Flay got back to me about unlocking it for me. In retrospect, I probably should've gone with hasdgfas. Oh well.

Meh.

Role PM

You are

Antinous Mondragone

, a colossal bust dating from the Roman Empire. You were a lover, a sacrifice, then a god. The recent events that have taken place in the Louvre which is now your home have troubled you. You have decided to help fate along in capturing the culprits by using your divine power to protect innocents from harm. But if the innocents turn against you, they will have to suffer the fate of the blasphemers.

Wincon

You dearly love the Louvre and will do anything to save it. You win when all threats to the Museum have been eliminated from the game or if nothing can prevent the same.

Abilities

• Vote:
  during the day, you may cast a vote which will count toward a lynch.
  
• Symbolic sacrifice:
  Each night you may select a player whom you will protect from harm. If the player is targeted by a kill, you will sacrifice yourself to save them.
  
• Death of a god (passive):
  If you are lynched at any point in the game, the next day phase will be skipped entirely as the town grieves.

Being a bodyguard beloved princess is why I was so eager to claim a protective role. Wanted to get shot.

Game was meh. Would never have guessed that it was a 9v2v1 with a survivor thrown in. Happy with my calling of Yos and Zar as town. Sad that shos got lynched, especially given Nuwen's reactions to him in the thread, but as I said in the Dead QT, I'd probably be pretty suspicious of charter based on Nuwen-who-was-fakeclaiming-not-seeing-him-as-a-threat.

Still maintain that Vi's "I-don't-know-what-my-role-does" claim was bad and should feel bad, but can't overly much blame Zar for trusting his report. I would've gone for a third Mafia member over a bulletproof-and-essentially-all-but-investigation-proof-SK-in-a-game-that-already-had-a-survivor as well, had I lived.

[Magua]

Other things:

Setup, as near as I can figure out, was this:

Mafia (2)

- Furcolow (some form of rolecop?)
- Nuwen (Investigation-Immune Tracker-Framer)

3rd Party (2)

- shos (Bulletproof Ascetic Survivor)
- Vi (Bulletproof Tracker-Immune SK)

Town (9)

- Hiraki (Doctor)
- Yosarian2 (assuming he's not lying about his role, limited vig)
- Zar (Tracker)
- charter (flavor cop)
- Elmo TeH AzN (flavor cop)
- kanyeknowbest (flavor cop) [1]
- Parama (jailkeeper)
- UberNinja (flavor cop)
- Magua (Beloved Princess Bodyguard)

Investigative-wise, the town got hosed and the non-Town got hosed only if they actually fakeclaimed, which they had pretty much no reason to actually do. As near as I can tell, only one person had a role that required them to fakeclaim (Nuwen), and that person was investigation immune. Vi's role arguably required them to fakeclaim[2]...but only upon the fifth kill, so, yeah. The real point for the scum being that it was a Vanilla-less game, and only Furcolow had a power that was at all claimable as a town power. Taking the flavor cops out, town's only other investigative role was a tracker...who all the killing roles were essentially immune to, and town had one hidden miller for (Parama). So, yeah.

Yeah.

Protection-wise, the town had (as near as I can tell) a doctor, a bodyguard, and a jailkeeper, plus both third parties being bulletproof. This is where I feel the Mafia, in particular, got shafted.

As near as I can tell, the dreams/omens/what not were provided by springlullaby and not by any Town roles during the game (...and were the only even possibly useful investigations in the game, which is....yeah.)

[1] kanyeknowsbest had springlullaby broaden his role in response to UberNinja dying.

[2] I am amazed that springlullaby didn't think about the fakeclaim situation before the game started (as none of the scum received one as part of their role), and then after the game started, handled the fakeclaim situation in such a way that, given the incredibly large number of flavor cops the game had, had any of the scum actually made use of, would've doomed them.

[Magua]

Other other thing:

Survivor is a terrible role. Bulletproof survivor is even more terrible...er. Literally would've been a better setup in pretty much every way imaginable if shos' role had actually been a Mafia goon, IMO.

[Magua]

Finally, the only things I don't know are:
- What the Demotic script was supposed to mean.
- Why Zar's track of Furcolow failed N1 (but at this point I would not be surprised if Furcolow was also some form of investigation immune)
- Where the dreams/visions (eg, Hiraki's vision) came from (assuming springlullaby)

[Magua]

Finally, the only things I don't know are:

- What the Demotic script was supposed to mean.

Should've read Vi's spoiler about communication-with-springlullaby better (I skipped it originally as I knew Vi's role from collecting the PMs).

El-oh-el.