TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[theamatuer]

OMG its reckoner. He's like a legend.
also

vote: kk

for beign last to confirm

[theamatuer]

I think we should out the awards if a majority couldn't be reached in a group though.

[theamatuer]

DV, i think you might be slightly biased here IMO.
They seem to be buddying each other quite obviously. This, I believe, is because exactly one of the two is scum: the scum wants the defense from the town, and it'll lead to incriminating evidence once the scum flips

vote: Quilford

[theamatuer]

Theam:

What do you mean by me being biased? (Hito, I'm guessing?) I have buddied in the past as town and am probably less likely to do it as scum.

Page 1. It feels like you're friends or something, and being friends=inclined to think the others town.
Also it feels like Quilford buddies you more than you him, hence why I'm voting him.

Thea - 88 what the heck is this exactly?

I think a scum's buddying a town for towncred from the town and a possible mislynch if the scum flips.

They seem to be buddying each other quite obviously. This, I believe, is because exactly one of the two is scum: the scum wants the defense from the town, and it'll lead to incriminating evidence once the scum flips

I absolutely dislike setting up lynches on the prosect of Town flips.

Tell me TheAm – where did this game rank on your personal request list and do you like Town or Scum better?

It was fifth, If I remember correctly. Can't check right now.
I like playing as Scum, but I'm not very good at it.
---

Vote: BBmolla

He makes shit excuses as scum. He has shit excuses here. Also, post 97 is horrible

[theamatuer]

BBmolla: What is your read on Quil? (excluding influence from Reck) Also, explain the "wat".

It was null enough to explore a wagon.

Do you agree with the Gaoth votes, then?

Yep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gaoth

If one of DV/Quil is scum, I'd have to say it's DV atm.

I find that the Quilford null thing is also suspicious, and how you say Quil is town after the wagon on him failed.
Also shamelessly bandwagoning on Gaoth.
Not to mention my teammates also think you are scummy

[theamatuer]

And not recks?
Wagon on me is meh.
Also, I've not been posting due to my sister stealing my computer for her homework, AP tests, and a overall laziness to post. Should have something up in an hour at the latest

[theamatuer]

family meet.

[theamatuer]

@155. Even though it is a reread, I notice all comments happened after 100. Also, its ironic how you say KK is scum immediately after he said you were non-town. In fact, I believe that post is not a reread, just a case against KK thinly vieled as a reread. Its only to the last 2 pages, and he doesn't even vote KK there, instead he chooses to wagon Ajax. And your reaction to my post is horrible.
172. Seems like BBmolla resorting to attacking the wording after attacking the reads themselves doesn't seem to work.
190s

I'm scum for voting the person you thought was scummy? Do you not see a problem here?

is scummy. He thinks that its okay to vote someone who most everyone thinks is scummy and no one should question him about it or something.
Thats what I found upon ISOing BBmolla.

[theamatuer]

so what was that emptyquote for?

[theamatuer]

I was talking about the mod's prod there, actually.
Yes. Magua. Read them

[theamatuer]

There seems to be an "uncanny valley" when it comes to amount of content posted.

At an average level, it's a null tell. At Gaoth's level (nonexistent), it's a null tell.

At theamatuer's level (minimal), it's suspicious. Looks like he's avoiding getting too deep into the game.

Unvote

Vote: theamatuer

theamatuer, what's your read right now on Zar? What about hito?

Hito is town. Zar I have a null-town read on him

[theamatuer]

I agree with you on that, but Everyone needs to put in their secret votes in before the hammer.

@mod: what happens if a hammer is reached before a group can secret vote a majority?

I'd assume scum get to choose or something. Anyways, L-2 is enough for now

[theamatuer]

Captain Ajax claim please

[theamatuer]

@TheAm -

I'm wondering what is holding you back from hammering Ajax. You've now dropped two "Pause" items that had obvious answers as an excuse not to hammer him. Are you worried he will flip Town?

Nah. It's just filler so that any group who hasn't voted on a player will. Plus it gives some more information and discussion before the flip

[theamatuer]

see?
ajax, have you recieved it from a scummies group, or started out with it?

[theamatuer]

Ehh I still wanted to see that response but w/e
Also inb4. Scum kills Magua and mistakes him for magna

[theamatuer]

Have I done so?

[theamatuer]

Actually I was trying to discern something else from Ajax's response. And being an idiot who doesn't read the rules != scum. Not like it applies to me

[theamatuer]

@recks. I think scum have an ability to change the target one 1 award, but they can't choose themselves. That would explain why they'd move it to fonz and have him killed IMO.

[theamatuer]

@KK. Actually, I was trying to tell if scum's had daytalk or not. The claim is stupid and fake as shit, but I wanted to push at it to see if his response would slip something. Scum not having daytalk would make it far easier to read scums for relationships as they had less planning.

Also I'll be representative of 2B

[theamatuer]

I have something I want to check. Can someone give me an investigative role tonight?
I also play better with a PR so yeah

[theamatuer]

Zar- scum
KK - null-scum
Magua- town

[theamatuer]

@MoI. Nothing suspicious whatsoever

[theamatuer]

Not done yet. Chose a category, but still wants time to talk about targets and stuff

[theamatuer]

We're done

[theamatuer]

vote: zar

I more or less agree Magua's analysis. I think theres only one scum among the three though

[theamatuer]

I more or less agree Magua's analysis. I think theres only one scum among the three though

Stop skipping my questions to you TheAm.

You are starting to annoy me.

Why do you think there is only 1 scum among BB / KK / Zar?

Who is the other scum BESIDES that person?

What specifically did you want to 'check' with an Investigation role?

Because I think theres scum somewhere else.

I have an idea, but I'd need to check to be certain.
Hence I want the investigation. I believe I've found a certain scum, but problem is theres not much evidence, and the person is good enough to discredit and ignore any accusations or cases I make against him.

[theamatuer]

Group 2B was me, hito, BBmolla, and magua.
We gave out the best IC. I chose Quilford.
Also question: do you like to lie as scum or tell half-truths?

[theamatuer]

and why the hell did you guys go and lynch Magua

[theamatuer]

Because Of a reason that I'll explain in- depth later

[theamatuer]

oh right. We have a secret double voter here. I'd like that double voter to vote me just to confirm his/her existence, just so scum can't abuse it lylo/mylo or something

[theamatuer]

Why was Quilford killed anyways? The only reason seems to be because of the PR.
Also this is a proddodge. Will have something interesting up soon that is not my long and important case but will help it.

[theamatuer]

It's a jailkeep. Btw,what does newbie scummy do? I have a suspicion on what it is though

[theamatuer]

I'm kindof nullish about KK, about 55/45 leaning town.
Anyways, it might be possible that scum is not in our group, given some circumstances.
Lets see the playerlist.

xRECKONERx- given a PR already.
MagnaofIllusion-town
BBmolla - in the group
Kublai Khan-hito assumes scum
T-Bone-Null
theamatuer- in the group
DeasVail-null
Zar-hito thinks scum if magua scum, not gonna choose for him obv
hitogoroshi- in the group
quilford-town
magua-in the group, also hito thinks as scum

Scum already know that Hito is in charge of our group, through either POE or a direct scum already in the group. Hito at D2 specially stated only 2 town reads. For recks:
1. Zar is scum, and know we chose Recks (it was more or less states obviously)
2. Sucessful rolecop.
3. Blind guessing given that hito doesn't talk about recks come d2.
aka, it would have been extremely likely that our chose either MoI or Quilford d2.

[theamatuer]

Bussing might not give you max points, but it shouldn't be excluded. Say, MoI has a unsavory team lineup and needed to go obvtown, bussing a scummate d1 would be the easiest way. It's near impossible to not lynch a scum before town will possibly lose, esp. With strong town players like hito and fonz.
Also I wish to ask a WIFOMish question for everyone: why wasn't hito killed n1, and fonz instead? What changed between N1 and last night that made him killed?

[theamatuer]

Theam, I don't really see the importance of your question. It could either have been something to do with Fonz getting Best Newbie or Hito being suspected by Magua and myself if I were to guess.

Although, scum may not have even decided to kill Hito because it was a bodyguard role handed out by 1C (me, KK, molla) and I my vote went to Quilford (we didn't discuss who to give it to). I do think, however, that scum probably did have hito as their kill target.

No. By what they said, D2, Group A's award was given to Fonz completely by scum. If that is so, then what reason is there to choose hito over fonz? More people suspected Fonz than hito here, including MoI

[theamatuer]

fos: BBmolla

[theamatuer]

@mod: please prod MoI

[theamatuer]

Theam:

Have your team members made any comments regarding you/this game in your QT?

No. The latest comment was them telling me to be more active D2.
And about the BBmolla fos, it was mainly about this comment.

lol

Reckoners original comment can probably come from a townie who doesn't give a fuck, but this emptyquote stinks of the "oh hey he did it so I can do it too" mindset, which is a scum mindset

[theamatuer]

I may have missed it, but did anyone confirm that they gave prof. mafia to BBmolla, and it does what he says it does?

[theamatuer]

Not anymore he's not. It's 11 AM EST.
Also I'll be V/LA till wednesday for finals

[theamatuer]

Still on V/LA, but pointing out Recks group probably has scum for the reason of choosing Prof Mafia instead of other possibly better abilities. Also possibility that prof mafia unlocked scum ability to give fakeroles

[theamatuer]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p4117919]

When deciding on the award, how did you intend it to be used?

It was the least horrible of the pack. The other two were: a Neutral Third Party Flip and a Mafia Godfather Ability.[/quote]
No, it was a 1-shot vig that caused the flip to be a serial killer if he didn't use it before he got killed

[theamatuer]

That has to be the DUMBEST FUCKING THEORY I've heard the entire game. Congratulations.

Our options were essentially: give someone the ability to secretly message the town via modposts, give someone the ability to make one of their teammates an in-game tree stump, or professor mafia which was SEEKRIT POWERZ.

Tell me how that makes one of us scum for choosing that. Go right ahead.

Well, the most logical possibility is that scum has an inventor role that only works after Prof Mafia is given, in which they decided to immediately vanillaize the person just in case. If scum knew that, chances are they would try to gear for prof.
Plus the mod one can be quite useful, like checking reactions and stuff. ( saying xx is guilty or Inno or such)

anyways can you give us a summary of what happened, including who said what when

[theamatuer]

921- Zars accurate, but like I said. It wasn't just a deathmiller, it was a 1-shot vig that caused you to flip as SK if you died before you used it.
902- I'm making it right now

[theamatuer]

Actually I was talking about the case there. Where did I hint that I had a theory? I may have done that already
Pedit- I wanted the identity of the double voter to be secret. I just wanted to prove the existence of one.

[theamatuer]

The whole PR thing and not having them die and stuff.
We already planned to announce the existence of the DV before LYLO D1

[theamatuer]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

[theamatuer]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

Lulz. I'll just point out that you aren't voting either of us ... why is that?

I forgot.
VOTE: Deasveil
I dont really care if you guys lynch me, but if you guys are just going to follow MoI tomorrow and completely ignore what I just said, then fuck all of you

[theamatuer]

So here’s my issue with TheAm

–

His ISO is pretty scummy, as is the norm. Things that at this stage stand out to me …

Post 9 – Now that KK is dead-Town his “Obv-Buddying to Reck” point can be reconsidered as valid scum-hunting.

Post 151 – To further strengthen KK’s stance … look at his reasoning for voting Quilford here –

I think a scum's buddying a town for towncred from the town and a possible mislynch if the scum flips.

Aside from the fact that Quil is Town … here he’s attacking Quilford for buddying when he did that in his very first post. Cognitive Dissonance.

Post 216 – This “Wagon me is Meh” stance struck me as odd at the time. Ajax, who was Scummy McScumpants had just jumped on at Post 194. Yet TheAm’s reaction is subdued. No “Scum looking for a mislynch” or anything. Just that the wagon is Meh. Possibly not wanting to point fingers since a partner just made the wagon viable?

Post 310 – He’s the first post after Ajax claims and asking questions to see if he can extricate the wagon.

Post 431 – One of many posts (in this case “Trying to work out if scum have daytalk” where is looks to purposefully trying to showcase lack of inside knowledge. While making mistakes about set-up isn’t inherently scummy the number of times he does it is so blatant my gut is saying “Faux Townie Posting” aka Captain Ajax. Post 467, Post 643 are other posts of those ilk.

Post 470 – I’ll comment on this later …

Post 544 – I want this addressed …

I have an idea, but I'd need to check to be certain.

What was your idea?

Post 576 – Already addressed who much I hate this post.

He also has no Ajax interactions at all and as I have gone over before the vote movement and MoIputer both say he is a good lynch.

My big hang-up is that I know TheAm is a VI. It’s one of the reasons I assumed he was getting counter-wagonned to Captain Ajax. But at this point we have two lynches to get another scum (barring Lulz, double Kill from Scum mechanics). I’d honestly rather get him out of the way now even if he flips Town. I also do think interaction wise him flipping either Town or Scum advances the game for tomorrow more than others.

UNVOTE: Deas
VOTE: TheAm

You lynched KK because he didn't have enough basis behind voting me, and now your giving out his points as your points. Theres really something wrong here.
@216: I dont say things like that. The wagon on me was made on half-baked reasons, and was therefore a meh wagon. It wasn't a good wagon with actual reasoning, and it wasn't a bad wagon where people just random vote and sheep others. And I didn't catch up yet.
@310: I already told you my reasons behind asking Ajax.
431: Where did I make mistakes on setup? In fact, how would you know if I made mistakes on setup if you are town? Both 467 and 643 aren't related to the setup whatsoever.
470: The idea was you scum. I hinted at this multiple times in thread and the judging QTs in fact.
@fonz. I'd also like to note that Fonz was the ONLY person that remotely suspected you. And guess what. He died.

[theamatuer]

MoI:

I think you're town, don't worry.

Also, yes to the questions you asked, and regarding Reck, one thing that I think makes him town (and I'm not even sure about that) is not enough to sustain my townread considering I find him scummy otherwise.

I will get around to explaining my townreads soon.

MoI attacks Deasviel because of this. Deas then goes

Seriously MoI?

In response, and does not put up a single defense. MoI has a full post explaining why hes scum, then goes to me because, more or less, of what people he killed said, and because he dislikes my play.
I think this implies some other communication between Deas and MoI to make MoI change his mind tbh.

[theamatuer]

I'll make you a deal. If we lynch Zar, I'll reread both TheAm & T-Bone overnight and make a judgment call tomorrow. I'm not promising to line up any lynches.

MoI gonna say yes, b/c zars town and hes scum

[theamatuer]

I think Tbone and Recks are town bc of theisr reactions to my earlier idea of scum having a ability unlocked by prof maifia

[theamatuer]

1. No I haven't. Stop misrepping me scumtard.
2. I am a vanilla townie, due to noone giving me anything. Have DV vote me now, why dont you.
3. I'm gonna do a day-by-day analysis on MoI to prove he is scum soon.
Also if DV flips in a way that shows that he has a scum power role of some sort, then it gives even more proof that MoI would be bussing Ajax (Scum bussing out the weakest person in their team is a commonly used tatic)

[theamatuer]

No, I'll flip town, you'll go "oh my, I need to reread things again, I'll just go afk for a while, then come back and use the deadline to quicklynch zar and win the game"

[theamatuer]

No, I'll flip town, you'll go "oh my, I need to reread things again, I'll just go afk for a while, then come back and use the deadline to quicklynch zar and win the game"

"HEY DEAS, HURRY UP AND HAMMER THIS GUY ALREADY. ITS AUTOWIN FOR US SCUM"

[theamatuer]

where was 1043 AtE?

[theamatuer]

And why are your hiding your online status?

[theamatuer]

I know you're here. Stop lurking because you cant think of an answer, and decide to wait until DV comes and quickhammers

[theamatuer]

Well I don't have the time to make that case, and even if I did, nobody would listen so yeah.
I'm town, and this will prove it.
VOTE: theamatuer
You'll probably lynch DV, but nobody's going to lynch MoI, so this is effectively a scum win. GG, scum

[theamatuer]

Also, reckoner's obvtown, for the sole reason that he didn't quickhammerme, then use his extra vote to autowin the next day.
T-bone and Zar are also town.

[theamatuer]

So you self-hammered and that is a sign you are Town? Lulz.

Now we just need Lost Butterfly to make that scum flip.

No, the subsequent town flip is sign I am town.
Also forcing an NL is bad and I dont trust scum not to do so

[theamatuer]

yes, because I'd problably be lynched regardless tomorrow, and hammering me at MYLo> hammering me with a mislynch