TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Benmage]

Vote CES

horrible comment.

[Benmage]

unvote vote zachrules

Llmarable is my best town read thus far.

Zach how did you know that about Singer?

[Benmage]

Matias... I'm not familiar with White Flag history... assuming llama was scum there? Were you also in the game?

[Benmage]

So why'd you choose differently? (You can wait for Singer to answer first if you like)

[Benmage]

There's a reason why I chose Llamarble at the beginning.

Scum would likely hop onto a bandwagon being pushed against someone formerly scum in a game

like this in an attempt to fit in, assuming Llamarble is town (or possibly even if he's not).

-Where'd do you get this opinion from, just personally?

Benmage why did you pick this game?

-No powerroles.

Skill>=win.

Scumpoints for 'I cooked up this purposeful vote in my lab pregame.'

QFT this was my inquiry for Zach. Sweet I knew you were town.

I think scum think more about how they're going to play the early game than town do.

Exactly... town join the game, and play. Exhibit A. Scum are more likely to formulate a plan. Do research. Etc. Hence my questioning of Zach.

Oh right, I'm sorry I did something that falls under your own personal scum meta. I'll refer to my fortune teller next time.

Not a fan of this attempt to wave off the accusation.

I was certain that Llamarble was going to be the first one wagoned in a sequel to the same format game last year in which he was scum. I don't like RVS.

This makes no sense. Since you've been here longer than a year, I can't write it off as being a newb.

I was voting Benmage because I think he would prefer a theme but would pick WF if it would allow him to be scum.
I still want to hear why he picked this game.

You know me well sir.

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Hmmm.
-MetaMafia seemed like it would require too much devotion. I'm already strapped...plus now I have to help my teammates .
-Scummies popularity contest.
I chose 1-3 as possible choices I'd wanna play in. Just got WF.

Also as town I represent 10% of my team. As scum 33%. If 1 person blows it on the scum team, thats a huge negative. Rather than having 1 VI on town.

That said to properly answer Llama's question, for why I say he knows me well...is I'd love to pick scum. I'd take it a gagillion times over. And for that, I am forced to take town roles when the option arises. AGM's CYS I chose town, and made this exact same (paraphrase of course) statement.

Oh and

unvote vote Matias

[Benmage]

Town:
Zachrulez
singersigner
SocioPath
Amrun
Benmage
Captain Haddock
Llamarble


Other:
Bub Bidderskins
Cogito Ergo Sum
Johhog
Matias
Regfan
Thestatusquo

Pretty happy with these town reads.

[Benmage]

Town:
Zachrulez
singersigner
SocioPath
Amrun
Benmage
Captain Haddock
Llamarble
Johog
CES


Other:
Bub Bidderskins
Matias
Regfan
Thestatusquo

Pretty happy with these town reads.

FIXED

[Benmage]

Ben, that post is weird. What kind of question is "Where did I get that opinion from"?

Why would you ever believe scum would push someone because they were scum in the previous game? Like legitimately push? Or RVS?

[Benmage]

Ben, that post is weird. What kind of question is "Where did I get that opinion from"?

Why would you ever believe scum would push someone because they were scum in the previous game? Like legitimately push? Or RVS?

Did you not listen to the part where I said it was to blend in during RVS, or what

I just don't understand how you come to that belief..... How is voting previous scum blending in... shit I think it would spur more spotlight.

[Benmage]

Ben

, can you explain the Amrun, Johhog, CES and Socio town reads for me?

CES for his reasoning why Johhog is town, double confirmed them both.
Amrun because he feels genuine. I mean shit he looks real obvious.
SP gut.

[Benmage]

Explain your scum reads Mat.

[Benmage]

Im awesome.

[Benmage]

Benmage

- CES didn't say he thought Johhog was town so I don't see how you get any of those 2 reads.

Yeah he did.

[Benmage]

Slaxx has a strong town read on DH.

Whose DH?

[Benmage]

Explain your scum reads Mat.

You, because you aren't reading that well. Haddock, because he completely took a selfish "don't target me" route with his logic when the whole discussion was about Zach. CES because of scummy RVS voting.

Shitty X3.

As for me, looks omgusy. Scum or town are more likely to "not read well"?

[Benmage]

DemonHybrid?

[Benmage]

Benmage,

no he didn't. CES's comment was solely that he was probably telling the truth about why he joined this game. Not about if he's scum/town.

FUCK me, you are correct.

unvote

SHITTTT DH, you almost just got lynched. Speak up Bro. I thought you were gone. Good to see you.

[Benmage]

Town:
Zachrulez
singersigner
SocioPath
Benmage
Captain Haddock
Llamarble
CES
Matias
Regfan
Amrun


Other:
Johog
Bub Bidderskins
Thestatusquo

Pretty happy with these town reads.

FIXED

Lets try this again.

unvote vote Johog

[Benmage]

@Zach/CES why?

[Benmage]

CES

worst list ever?
-question. In 143 you call the bandwagon vote a meta null tell. In 147 it indicates its a town tell. Which is it?

I'm likely to believe our quasi truth tells for picking town right now.

[Benmage]

LLAMA you can't be scared just because of winvintational!

[Benmage]

Well than, my initial reasoning for thinking you were town is no longer valid.

Who else is scum with you? I have an Amrun tingle.

(You didn't answer why I was scum btw)

[Benmage]

I also recently decided that this:

I decided that MetaMafia was

too hard for me

as I'm recently back to this site

.

Means town.

[Benmage]

Ooo probably not sameteam with that comment to Reg.

[Benmage]

Here's where I'm at:

Conftown via truth tells
Benmage
Zachrulez
singersigner

Most town looking
Regfan
Matias
Llamarble
Johhog

Other reasoning
SocioPath
Captain Haddock

Remainder:
Thestatusquo
Amrun
Bub Bidderskins
Cogito Ergo Sum

[Benmage]

(You didn't answer why I was scum btw)

[Benmage]

Oh and this game'll likely have an interesting endgame chat on prejoining positions on alignment and if its a truth tell or not(As I am believing them until shown otherwise). SEE the MD discussion on truthtells.

[Benmage]

Eh. It's an inherent part of the Team Mafia set-up, nothing iffy about it. If Zor had wanted to avoid the issue,

he could've just gone with not telling the teams what role they get.

I forsee a new rule coming TM2013.

[Benmage]

unvote vote CES

[Benmage]

Oh and Socio, we want all your teams reads on this game please and thank you.

I want none of Socio's teams reads.

[Benmage]

Well than, my initial reasoning for thinking you were town is no longer valid.

Who else is scum with you? I have an Amrun tingle.

(You didn't answer why I was scum btw)

What was your initial reason and why did it change?

That he referenced town meta of his. Like he did in AFFC. But it was neutral meta.

[Benmage]

Hey guys, been off site for like 2 days. And I just player like 7 hours of rugby... So give me the weekend to catchup.

[Benmage]

(This is boring.)

Hmmm.
-MetaMafia seemed like it would require too much devotion. I'm already strapped...plus now I have to help my teammates .
-Scummies popularity contest.
I chose 1-3 as possible choices I'd wanna play in. Just got WF.

Benmage, if you were so ambivalent about which one you'd get, why did your team pick WF in the first round? My team is the only other one that picked WF in the first round and I sure as hell wasn't ambivalent.

I dont know how the round picking works... I thought you just picked the 4 you wanted.. Didn't know they were ranked.

Prolly WF was 1st, simply because it was #1 (no?)... And Both MoS and I said 1-3 for us.

[Benmage]

(This is boring.)

Hmmm.
-MetaMafia seemed like it would require too much devotion. I'm already strapped...plus now I have to help my teammates .
-Scummies popularity contest.
I chose 1-3 as possible choices I'd wanna play in. Just got WF.

Benmage, if you were so ambivalent about which one you'd get, why did your team pick WF in the first round? My team is the only other one that picked WF in the first round and I sure as hell wasn't ambivalent.

I dont know how the round picking works... I thought you just picked the 4 you wanted.. Didn't know they were ranked.

Prolly WF was 1st, simply because it was #1 (no?)... And Both MoS and I said 1-3 for us.

And that leads to a list of WF-Back Room-Scummies-Almost/Closed Normal how?

I looked back at the QT, and after we got into TM... listed the games, we all said which we'd want. Than T-Bone said we got 1,2,4,5 so I imagine he selected... but there wasnt much conversation at the time... and it was never ranked like THIS THIS THIS!!! etc etc....

Whats the point of this question?

[Benmage]

Whats the point of this question?

Are you really asking me why I'm quizzing about seemingly contradictory information? Especially when the original post wherein you explained why you picked White Flag was rambling and contradictory?

Contradiction?

Where does it list the order in which our requests were submitted?

[Benmage]

And as for your pet theory, why do you think benmage and llamarble's behavior backs that up? Can you show me?

They have each other in their probtown lists, mostly.

ScumCES fears the power of town voting bloc.

[Benmage]

ScumCES fears nothing*.

*except chamber

Where does it list the order in which our requests were submitted?

This is where I'm getting my info from.

Like I said we got the message from zoraster. Everyone gave individual preference. Then bam TBone said we has 1,2,4,5. Never made a:
This
This
This

like list.

[Benmage]

Shea, I'm going to trust my team mates when they tell me stuff like that + it kind of feels like in character for you. Also: Weather Mafia II.

Benmage is admittedly partially 'gut' based alongside with me liking his comment about why he'd take town.

I still kind of think he picked White Flag ahead of time (like he said "No power roles. Skill>=win.") and he made that comment to look town.

Regfan, wanna wagon 'marble?

I've always appreciated the pure skill aspect of mountainous. See Zachs mountainous game.

[Benmage]

Oh nvm... its 4 am here.

Lol, won't let this one go will ya.

[Benmage]

Oh wow, I just noticed that all of CES' top scumreads are on him now.

That is fascinating

.

Anything of it?

[Benmage]

Well I'll just say I've played in several games with Benmage and his play in this game just feels wrong on just about every level.

More to this than?

(imo, I just haven't awaken the dragon yet)

[Benmage]

Zach, you think all 3 of us are scum, voting CES?

-what would be the reasoning you're referring to?

[Benmage]

If CES was to flip scum, would that opinion change?

And llama and I are town, fyi.

[Benmage]

I don't have an opinion on tsq yet. I do however thing it an absurd assertion yo assume his late start was scum motivated whatsoever.

[Benmage]

More literally speaking, if CES was scum, could we all be town?

[Benmage]

Looks like
.... remainder actually.

[Benmage]

In red?

Oh right, there's 4 scum this game too....

[Benmage]

Yes it's a wall, suck it. I shouldn't get any further behind now because I'm all caught up (and don't need to catch up more, as the case was).

Also, Johhog gets a few extra town points for bringing up Benmage's bullshit with not calling Shea scum, when he clearly did.

@Matias...how do you feel about Benmage?

Uhmmm can you quote be calling him scum... I wouldn't be that surprised if I did more as a PoE thing, due to town reads etc etc... all I see is him in "other and remainder "....

-johog, I fail to see the point of your post... can you say something with more substance please.

[Benmage]

-Singer, the awaken the dragon bit comes from aSoS where Mina called me out, wrongfully ... for not being as intense as I had been in WoT Mafia... I'm pretty sure I've referenced the dragon thing when starting slow beforehand.

And if we want to use WM2... look at my opening post. A declaration of a change in benmage behavior. That caused substantial backlash, which if you will likely awoken said dragon.

[Benmage]

socio

since you're clearly town, can you vote CES or atleast give an opinion on him please.

[Benmage]

oooph prodded again D3

Uhmm, yeah need to read here.

[Benmage]

Who wants to bullet the case on Amrun?

Who wants to bullet the case on TSQ?

[Benmage]

It isnt.

[Benmage]

Zero incentive. Stated pressure votes = zero pressure.

FAIL.

[Benmage]

It's not a pressure vote, it's a "I want you dead until you explain why you were gone for half of Day 1 if the reasons so suit my unvote" vote. Your uninvolvement was scummy.

So you'll sit uselessly voting me. Because 1 vote is zero inspiration.

And if others do vote me for the same premise.. All I do is commit X, and bam..votes go away.

*Yawn* I'm good for now.

[Benmage]

Prod received.

[Benmage]

vote CES

[Benmage]

Benmage, anything else?

Nope.

[Benmage]

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

[Benmage]

Zach, slightly confused. Are you reading Nacho as Town or Scum?

[Benmage]

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

Oh god, please stop with the WIFOMy self meta.

You mean explaining why is "I've never seen Benmage act this way" is stupid....

Meta is awesome. Self Meta. Yeah what?

[Benmage]

he's just spouting out one-liners to dodge prods.

qft

[Benmage]

Anyway, all aboard the Llamarblewagon.

But I'm already voting scum.

And voting town isn't counterproductive to my wc.

[Benmage]

Is **

[Benmage]

So i promise to fix my shit this weekend. My games/games alive in has drastically reduced.

[Benmage]

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you. Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

[Benmage]

What is your opinion of Benmage and my case on him?

Can you tell me the post of said case?

[Benmage]

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you.

Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

That's not a significant factor in my vote.

Im assuming you don't mean the bolded. So, what do you think of CES's point?

And what is the significant factor?

[Benmage]

but it is consistent with the scum Benmage that I know.

What game are you referring to?

[Benmage]

YEAH. I'm awesome in those town games.

And 100X more awesome in those scum games. WTF. Those scum games. Confmetown.

[Benmage]

Gosh zach you gonna make me find town games of me being lackadasical?

You dont believe my I can't pick scum spiel?

[Benmage]

Your meta is actually kind of backwards to what I tend to expect from players, but is staggeringly easy to distinguish once you know what you're looking for.

Awesome scum games?
Dick town games?

[Benmage]

g2g lil bros graduation, gosh zach get it together.

[Benmage]

Wait now u think Im scum CES?

[Benmage]

Spoiler: for those who think I'm still scum

Here’s a quick excerpt from in the court of gods. Its DTM, but most people will echo this:

You know what this is getting out of hand. I'd rather sink my gambit then spiral this out of contol.

I am a Town Hider

What I did was tell LLD that I will be targetting Benmage tonight and the game we did together (expressed by LLD) is Disgaea 2 Mafia. Benmage was a major leader in that game, and used RBT his mason vig buddy to shoot scumz and scummy players. He lead the town to almost victory before dying.

Benmage hasn't shown any of his leadership in this game so I had him under suspect.

The same type of play style (not caring, no cases, etc) applies to Benmage.

@Benmage
Don't you have insights of your own to put forward? Everything so far has been extremely reactionary. (There's no actions/scumhunting/etc put forward from you via cases at all).

6. Jack. Um... the Benmage thing did happen. I remember going oh lol wait I'm wrong,

but the laziness still is a valid point to attack

. And you attacked with me. I'll need to iso the rest to confirm Equinox's points now.

5. I also hate the implied notion that things can't continue until a flip/claim occurs. The stall comes from people not doing crap. Like Nopoint or

Benmage

. Farside, Equinox, and DGB/Andruis are examples of attacks elsewhere (While DGB is being lolz about it).

11. If Benmage continues to self meta I want game references plz and thanks.

(I just love selfmeta)

Here we have mini 1168 the links below show a lack of activity/prod doging from May18 to June 1.:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3060880
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3067726
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3078466
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3087630

Lets look at LLD in AGM’s CYS:

@Mod: Can I get a mass prod? If not, can I get a prod on CSL, Katsuki, Ani, Maemuki, MOI and Benmage?

(Like I said in the VC - it's a weekend, but I'll be sending out a giant prod wave tomorrow. --AGM)

Also, Benmage is looking pretty bad. He's usually got more to say than this.

@Benmage: Who is scum?

Benmage, you're useless.

Me falling behind:
March 29

This wasn't suppose to be a spam game...I'll try and read tomorrow..

April 1.

Apologies, I'll see what I can do later tonight.

Me trying to catchup and getting angry:

Because this was so difficult for you...How far behind in this game am I?? Oh yeah... BUT WOES ME FOR ASKING TO MAKE MY LIFE A LITTLE EASIER...how fucking anti-town can you be. And you have the audacity to try and make me look back with your shitty belittling link comment....fucking uncalled for and disgusting. Go fuck yourself.

Next time you skim read...wait to see if someone else answered the request, save us from calling the whambulance.

OO this is good:

Myb for mia again....ill get back in here soon.

Dinner with the fam...then hopefully some freetime for mafia.

*insert peter griffin awkward laugh* 5 more pgs down putting me onto top of 11 ... I forgot too much from what I skimmed since where I left off..so hopefully from here I'll stay concurrent while catching up.

^^^Click that link. Thats me saying I just read 5 pages bringing me to pg 11... when the games on pg 32. LOL. This was a really shitty townbenmagegame.

So are we convinced Shitgames = Benmagetown yet?

How about that dragon reference from ACoK:

I've seen Benmage play town, in WoT Mafia and another game (I think one of the Freaktowns). There, he was super-aggressive, abrasive, controversial, made a lot of crappy arguments and weak attacks on obvtown, and was a major lynch target. But he was totally unconcerned with what other people though of him. I see a difference here. He keeps

stalling for time

, ingratiating himself to people who aren't I doubt it, playing nice and going with the flow, blatantly bandwagoning, etc. He never even reacted emotionally to my attack on him on Day One. I think that if he were town, he'd get a lot more heated in response. Dude, I called him a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE BULLY.

Can you please stop it?

Lol! Stop being me. I get complained about not being me. You awake the dragon and complain. Listen if you're gonna play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

[Benmage]

That was mildly entertaining.

[Benmage]

OHHHH YEAH.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/8cdYSMuhiZJG

Mafia invictus scum qt. Post 128 DGB tells us to strategically lurk. Post 130 I say lurking as scum is lameeee.

I've always found lurking as scum horrrible.

[Benmage]

I've always found lurking as scum horrrible.

[Benmage]

Lurking as town is INFINITELY lamer than lurking as scum

Whys that?

so him saying he finds lurking as scum lame does not make it more likely that he is town given his lurking.

But I just showed several examples of me dropping the ball as town, and zero examples of me dropping the ball as scum.

Sure this could be some predesigned meta excuse... or it could just be history repeating itself.

[Benmage]

unvote vote Llama

This is probably town voting town. I hope I'm wrong.

[Benmage]

Oh wow that was a hammer. Alrighty than.

[Benmage]

Please note that Llamarble now is at L-1.

I still don't like this. I will not vote Llamarble if I don't have to because of an approaching deadline. Benmage isn't even trying, pressing his "I would never lurk as scum" agenda while the case on Llamarble is weak at best.

I still never got a case on me did I?

[Benmage]

The only thing that was ever shown to me was by Zach saying how I was different in all these other games. And that my play here didn't add up. So I showed him how this play has happened before.

Other than that... no 'case'.

[Benmage]

You can't bullet it concisely?

[Benmage]

Glad I'm conftown now... though wrong on both CES and llama

[Benmage]

And yeah, my gut tells me that Matias is a bad lynch.

This.

Only he's dead wrong on SP.

[Benmage]

I refuse to believe scum Shea would replace out of team Mafia.

Moreover Shea was pretty limited on the site at the start of team Mafia, and I doubt he'd take a scum role for that purpose.

[Benmage]

Its 100% not sp tho.

@bub tell me a recent scum game please.