TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Captain Haddock]

vote:Regfan

What's a Reg?

[Captain Haddock]

I think Matias tried to encourage suspicion of me without comitting himself and he's asked for opinions without giving any.

I don't find bandwagoning scummy, avoiding bandwagons is something I'd see as more likely to extend RVS.

Then what are your thoughts on Haddock?

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

This is what I'm talking about. Not "early at all"! "After 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon" , like that was anything other than 3 rvs votes on the same person.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

[Captain Haddock]

Yes.

[Captain Haddock]

And Haddock, just so we have this out of the way I'm a part of the hydra "hiphog". I'll try to not have any prejudices though.

I know. I don't have any prejudices, it's history.

[Captain Haddock]

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

...I was actually analyzing Zach, but okay.

I know what you meant now but saying "early bandwagoning is scummy" isn't bandwagon analysis, what was your reason besides that? Because he wasn't the only one to do it.

What are your thoughts on CES, Haddock?

Quite towny.

VOTE: Captain Haddock

Nope.

43 started off artificial and followed up with "you are wrong so I get to vote you"

Why do you think it's artificial? I'm not voting him for being wrong, I don't think describing the 6th post "as not early at all" is geniune and the rvs "bandwagon" doesn't explain that to me. I'm voting him because I think he was trying make me suspicius and he was testing the waters.

I think Matias tried to encourage suspicion of me without comitting himself and he's asked for opinions without giving any.

I don't find bandwagoning scummy, avoiding bandwagons is something I'd see as more likely to extend RVS.

Then what are your thoughts on Haddock?

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

This is what I'm talking about. Not "early at all"! "After 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon" , like that was anything other than 3 rvs votes on the same person.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

This post is just terrible. The point of Matias' post was not about Captain Haddock, but about discussing Zachrulez' motivation. This shows that Haddock is image conscious and lashing out at perceived threats.

Your post is terrible. NO, Encouraging suspicion of a player you won't even vote is scummy. Matias didn't exactly use neutral language and he was telling Zach his logic meant he should suspect me. But since then he said I was scummy for voting him.

"Haddock voted him to lash out at a threat" is dumb, the thing to do as scum would be ignore him and let him vote someone else(which he did). But I'm town and I want him lynched.


Matias was testing the waters at the start, he didn't even give a scum suspect but asked for multiple reads. His first vote was the only real wagon(rvs doesn't count), and now he's hopped onto me. He hasn't given any reasons for voting me either he just wants to vote with everyone else, he doesn't want to try and get a suspect lynched, just bandwagon.

[Captain Haddock]

I think Matias tried to encourage suspicion of me without comitting himself and he's asked for opinions without giving any.

I don't find bandwagoning scummy, avoiding bandwagons is something I'd see as more likely to extend RVS.

Then what are your thoughts on Haddock?

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

This is what I'm talking about. Not "early at all"! "After 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon" , like that was anything other than 3 rvs votes on the same person.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

This post is just terrible. The point of Matias' post was not about Captain Haddock, but about discussing Zachrulez' motivation. This shows that Haddock is image conscious and lashing out at perceived threats.

I missed this completely, but now that I look back on it, Haddock's actions seem really scummy. In context, it seems like a very weird thing for him to say, like he perceived even slightest thing to be a threat. I don't like it.

unvote; vote: Captain Haddock

Subtle encouragement to vote me but no attack and voting someone else is no threat at all. Your logic applies more to Matias, as he took no issue with my reasons for voting him(ignored my case) but voted me. You and Amrun should be voting him.

[Captain Haddock]

I'm too sure Matias is scum to lurker lynch and the case on Johnhog is a lot weaker than Matias'. I'm sure Johnhog could've sheeped everyone like Matias if he wanted too.

Llamamrble, why haven't you said anything about me since post 57?

This post is just terrible. The point of Matias' post was not about Captain Haddock, but about discussing Zachrulez' motivation. This shows that Haddock is image conscious and lashing out at perceived threats.

I missed this completely, but now that I look back on it, Haddock's actions seem really scummy. In context, it seems like a very weird thing for him to say, like he perceived even slightest thing to be a threat. I don't like it.

unvote; vote: Captain Haddock

Subtle encouragement to vote me but no attack and voting someone else is no threat at all. Your logic applies more to Matias, as he took no issue with my reasons for voting him(ignored my case) but voted me. You and Amrun should be voting him.

No I shouldn't be voting for Mat. Why? Because he didn't perceive a non-existent threat. I'm not sure if you understand the case against you. I'm voting you because you thought there was some sort of threat against you in Matias' posting when there wasn't anything of the sort. That is self-centered scum play IMO.

Matias obviously wasn't even going to call me scum because no one was interested so there was no threat at all! If you meant that I thought he was trying to encourage suspicion on me, yes and that's scummy if he would rather have no vote and not give an opinion till he found out how much support there would be. Since when did scum push people they percieve a threat rather than people they can lynch?

NO, Encouraging suspicion of a player you won't even vote is scummy.

It's not at all, actually. You think everyone is limited to one scum read per day and can only discuss the person they are voting? No.

He wasn't calling me a suspect, he gave no opinion of me. Why are you using the word scum read when he prefered having no vote to voting me? That question is misreping and loaded.

Haddock, I posted at least once of every thing in this game that you said I was lacking.

An empty "ur wrong"... Matias I don't care if you think you've corrected you play. If there was anything wrong with my reasons you could explain straight away.

Me voting him is no reason to vote me unless he hates the reasons, or is scum OMGUSing.

Or rather, things that you think doesn't make sense were explained. Final soon, I'll get more indepth later.

Open question: Does TSQ have meta on lurking as scum?

He explained nothing. If you have the time try and read our ISO's quickly side by side. This is a lie and he needs to hang for it alone. "I'll get more indepth later because I'm busy", 4 hours later he posts, it's not hard to be more indepth than this.

I should post a read list too. Ask if you have questions.

Singer
Regfan
Amrun
Llamarble
Socio
Bub
Zach
Johhog
Benmage
Haddock
CES

TSQ hasn't posted yet

I wonder if it's a coincidence that all the bandwagoned players are at the bottom?


Did anyone notice the size of my wagon? It makes me more sure I've caught scum.

[Captain Haddock]

Oh, ninja'D.

[Captain Haddock]

All this still holds. And when CES did move his vote he put it on a lurker, AKA more safevoting.

What about Matias just joining existing bandwagons? Isn't that safevoting?

Captain - Mediumtown

It'd probably be worthwhile to do a meta-check up on him and I'll likely do it in the next few days or so but I'd like it if someone else did it as well.

If you have time for that can you read my iso besides Matias' and comment? I even asked him his reason for voting CES and he didn't explain.

Or rather, things that you think doesn't make sense were explained.

He explained nothing. If you have the time try and read our ISO's quickly side by side.

Did anyone notice the size of my wagon? It makes me more sure I've caught scum.

I'd like your reads and thoughts on other players than Matias though because right now you're tunneling on him and I'm pretty positive he's town.

These reads are mine, not the teams: Zachrules town, CES quite towny, Johnhog slightly towny. Singer was fairly scummy but I will have a better read on her later. Bub is scummy because he played with me as "confirmed town" scum and his reason for voting me is: I voted Matias because

he might have a suspicion on me he's not pushing

! Amrun is less scummy but still scummy, a bit for her reason and I didn't like Amrun's question.

[Captain Haddock]

Haddock, I'm definitely pushing you. I'd just rather not lynch you immediately until all arguments are on the table for Day 2, plus, Shea hasn't even posted.

I was talking about my reason for voting you obviously but sheeping a vote on me, then setting yourself up for jumping on any other bandwagon is obviously not pushing.

I'm never opposed to analyzing others, though. I'm actually trying to figure out Johhog at the moment, mainly.

Funny how your analysis leads to only "suspecting" easy lynches.

He explained nothing. If you have the time try and read our ISO's quickly side by side.

Okay. Read through them.

1.

He did explain his reasoning for voting CES, that being that he thought CES's vote on Llarmable was an attempt to 'fit in' by scum.

2.

His reasoning for voting you is touched on in #58 where he states that he doesn't believe that you can have your stance if you've read all of his posts.

3.

To explain in more detail his #28 wasn't about getting reads from someone else on you so he could jump on but rather he noted a contradiction in Zachs logic and was questioning him about it; the contradiction being that Zach stated that he found 'avoiding bandwagons' which is what you do scummy but didn't have a scum read on you.

1.

That didn't clear up my confusion of the reason he gave for voting CES.

2.

His post about explaining things was in the context of my reasons for voting him, not his reason for voting me and nothing he's posted has contradicted what I've said.

3.

This has been discussed so I will just say this, has his analysis this game came up with any reason for voting anyone? His case on CES was made by Bub.

Long story short the entire reasoning you have behind suspecting Matias is based of a mis-understanding of his posts.

NO, I pointed out he was tring to get a feel of the game in my first (real) post, and since then he's had no insight about who's scum, no oringinal scum reads. He's just sheeped and got ready to sheep. My case on him is only a misunderstanding if he's town and I don't see any reason to think he is.


I think Bub might not be scum, the case looks like it's just clueless.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

...I was actually analyzing Zach, but okay.

I know what you meant now but saying "early bandwagoning is scummy" isn't bandwagon analysis, what was your reason besides that? Because he wasn't the only one to do it.

Here, Haddock misunderstands Matias' point again. Zach said that early bandwagoning is townie. Matias asked zach what zach's thoughts were on Haddock, because Haddock was bandwagoning, too. Zach said it was too early, Matias didn't think so. There is no indication there that Matias was targeting Haddock, but Haddock still interpreted it as a threat. He also points to other people bandwagoning early.

Actually you're misunderstanding, he voted CES and said "Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis" and I didn't realise saying: "earlier bandwagoning is scummy" was analysis. "Haddock, because Haddock was bandwagoning, too", I "avoided" bandwagoning at the start.

Confirm vote: Captain Haddock

Why in the hell did he feel the need to defend CES's argument? Because CES is his partner, that's why. He jumped in and gave a justification for CES' post.

What arguement?

[Captain Haddock]

Why the hell is Johhog an "easy lynch"?

He's a player in this game that I'm currently interested in.

Because there's support, Like everyone else you "suspect". Time to post his read list again.

I should post a read list too. Ask if you have questions.

Singer
Regfan
Amrun
Llamarble
Socio
Bub
Zach
Johhog
Benmage
Haddock
CES

TSQ hasn't posted yet

That points out an interesting trend of CES not making real arguments, but I digress. CES responded to Llamarble's vote on you by saying "nope". Llamarble pointed out his reasons for voting me and

then you stepped in and defended CES' position for him.

Quote now.

1.

That didn't clear up my confusion of the reason he gave for voting CES.

2.

His post about explaining things was in the context of my reasons for voting him, not his reason for voting me and nothing he's posted has contradicted what I've said.

3.

This has been discussed so I will just say this, has his analysis this game came up with any reason for voting anyone? His case on CES was made by Bub.

GOD. You really aren't reading. I'll go over this one more time and slowly, if you don't understanding it still get your team-mates to explain it to you.

1. His reasoning for voting CES was that he voted Llarmable thinking that scum would bandwagon on Lllarmable given what happened last year. CES placed the 3rd 'bandwagon'v ote on Llarmable therefore he thought CES was mafia.

2. His 'question' to Zach had NOTHING to do with a read on you from himself but rather a read on Zach. Zach stated that avoiding a bandwagon = a scum-tell. Your RVS vote on me and not joining the Llarmable lynch = avoiding a bandwagon, yes? Zach said that he didn't have a scum-read on you. Notice the contradiction there from Zach? That's what Matias meant when he said 'it's not too early'. His entire scum read on you stems from the fact that he thinks you're not reading his posts correctly and are jumping at things, which is correct but I don't think is a scum-tell in this case.

Fuck you.


1. I've known the reason for a while, he claims things were explained to me and he didn't even explain why I didn't understand the reason he originally gave for voting CES. I posted about realising his reason earlier. YAWN.
2. He said avoiding a bandwagon was likely to extend rvs, not that it was a scumtell, so that's not a contradiction. The rest is only true if he's town and there's scum motivation for saying it. Has his "analysis" this game came up with any reason for voting anyone?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/explain

[Captain Haddock]

I asked, and Captain Murasa doesnt mind me saying he's Om of the nom. His scum read on Zach was a meta read.



Shea-benmage-Llamarble is the scum team.

Your Amrunscumread sucks, Regfan.

SHEA-BENMAGE-LLAMARBLE 2012

Scum: Thestatusquo, benmage, Llamarble
Back-up scum: Bud Bibberskins, Captain Haddock, Amrun

We're lynching sheascum Today, so that seems very productive to me.

SHEA-BENMAGE-LLAMARBLE 2012

1. CES' reads have been static for half the game so far. Maybe a top scumread stays the same for a long time, but all 3 top reads don't stay the same when you're looking for scum. Especially when you have a whole team's worth of people with new ideas.

I no longer find CES quite-towny because of this.

As for his analysis coming up with reasoning

time will tell

.

He's made loads of posts but had no reasoning so obviously not.


The lurking dickhead is better than the other possible lynches but I'm not voting him just yet.

Amrun, why have you barely talked about me since your 19th post out of 63? And why haven't you called anyone scum since then? VOTE: Amrun

[Captain Haddock]

I have lots of townreads, and several other reads that are leaning scummy in a more slight way,

but no one jumps out at me as much as Haddock. I have been observing Haddock and seen nothing to dissuade me

Well why have you let Bub push the lynch for you?

I don't really care if anything I do may or may not be perceived as a scumtell by some. I'm working in my own way and I'm fine with that.

This game isn't a normal game

and I'm not playing it like one.

So the town objective isn't to lynch the scum?

They're

semi-valid criticisms that apply much more strongly to about 5 other people in the game

. What's the difference between me and them? They're not attacking Haddock.

No they're not, no one has made as many posts as you and they have suspects even if they parked their vote. But try and back that up anyway.

If asked for my biggest towntell this game, I'd point to my behavior around tsq (regardless of whatever alignment he actually ends up being). I brought a lot of attention on myself arguing against his wagon before he'd posted, especially the particular argument I employed. Then,

when the pressure on him had mostly dissipated

, I said I find him scummy but not auto-scum for ~mystery reasons~ which may or may not be the same as yours (our team doubts they're the same). There are about 20,000 easier roads for scum than that

Actually, she said he was scummy when he had 4 votes on him.
375, 387

[Captain Haddock]

I have lots of townreads, and several other reads that are leaning scummy in a more slight way,

but no one jumps out at me as much as Haddock. I have been observing Haddock and seen nothing to dissuade me

Well why have you let Bub push the lynch for you?

They're

semi-valid criticisms that apply much more strongly to about 5 other people in the game

. What's the difference between me and them? They're not attacking Haddock.

No they're not, no one has made as many posts as you and they have suspects even if they parked their vote. But try and back that up anyway.
375, 387

Answer this.

[Captain Haddock]

I'm getting my team to replace me because this game is boring and I've had no help.

[Captain Haddock]

I'm really glad my gut was right about CES, I couldn't stand it if he was buddying scum.

Vote Count 1.07

Captain Haddock (4) - Llamarble, Amrun, Bub Bidderskins, Matias

Only 1 was scum? I'm still saying the scum is on my wagon everytime I'm bandwagoned.


TBH I wish I was in Backroom mafia, all my reads(4) were right for that game and I wanted to play a theme. But fucking Captain lurker got that game...

Spoiler: Reads because the thread's locked

I've been lame too

yosarian2 is town
DDDP is probably town
Parama is probably town
Chesskid is scum

I will go into detail tommorow.

Anyway well done rest of town(especially Oversoul for replacing me)