Mini 1336 - Revolution Mafia Game Over!

[Llamarble]

Darox and I were both town in Nomination Mafia.
VOTE: Darox

[Llamarble]

Darox is in this game
Llamarble is in this game
Darox is town
∴ Llamarble is scum

Vote: Llamarble

Also,

Trust: Kuribo

Logic that starts off "I am town therefore X" has a tendency to come from town.

[Llamarble]

I don't actually know the game mechanics yet, which is unusual for me. I'll get there.

Spyrex, Implosion, and possibly HC are the scumteam.
Though TML gets a small amount of scumpoints for mentioning both of the two confirmed scum in his first post since scum are slightly more likely to do things to each other than to random townies.

Hey HC, why does post 27 exist?

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Implosion
I guess he could still be town MAYBE but it's only page two and I don't need to be certain yet.

[Llamarble]

I won't have a ton of access for the next few days, but it should hopefully be nonzero.

[Llamarble]

He's doing things I'd do as scum.
Leading off with some kind of planned early game, talking about mechanics and I think I'd be paying slightly more attention to Spyrex unvoting as scum.
Or at least it certainly didn't jump out to me as town, heh. I could try to explain exactly why but meh we'll see what develops.

[Llamarble]

Though TML gets a small amount of scumpoints for mentioning both of the two confirmed scum in his first post since scum are slightly more likely to do things to each other than to random townies.

How exactly is anyone confirmed on Page 2?

I don't think you understand what "confirmed" means.

I define confirmed as "I am willing to lose the game if I am wrong."

[Llamarble]

This is pretty much a prod-dodge, but my low access period will end Sunday.

[Llamarble]

Okay, Hurricane Llama is here.

[Llamarble]

Kuribo is scum.
VOTE: Kuribo

[Llamarble]

BBmolla is town.

TRUST BBMOLLA

Fate is scum.
Vijay is town.
Darox appears to be his usual self and probably town.
Elmo is probably scum.
HC is quite sketchy.
Implosion is fairly sketchy. BTW if two players are independently very scummy but also very unlikely to be scum together a 'one of these is scum argument' can be legit. Or if they just CC each other obv.
Kanye seems kinda town which is good because I had too many scumz.
MattP seems pretty obvtown.

TRUST MATTP

Spyrex is sketchy.
TML looks pretty town.

Well that's round 1.
Good enough for tonight.

[Llamarble]

There's no fucking way you even bothered to read the thread after sitelurking like a motherfucker

?
I'm typically one of the highest-effort players.

[Llamarble]

Also this thread has like 7 pages. It took 20 minutes to ISO everyone trololol

[Llamarble]

You have absolutely no idea how deep my thinking is (well other than that it didn't take very long).
But I am smart and can get a lot of analysis done in 20 minutes.
The hour-plus sessions will come though.

[Llamarble]

^ this so much

Makes Elmo probably not scum with HC, and a little less likely to be scum in general.
I'm not in love with the rest of that ISO though.
Except 58 which seems to suggest a 'lets figure this out together' townapproach.
Yeah okay no Elmolynch today.

Fate / Kuribo aren't living up to expectations.
I find it unusual that neither of them are louder in a game that could use some loudness.
Fate is especially lurk coasty and not getting much attention for it, which is usually a good scumsign.

suppose it would have helped if I had bookmarked the game

Here, we all know I'm going to wind up doing this at least once anyway, so:

Trust: Fate

I'll catch up in the morning.

This made me think a little bit Kuribo + Fate.

"Slips" catch town more often than scum, I'm finding.

The trick is that idiot scum tend to swarm all over it and try to GOGO MISLYNCH.

Here, SpyreX, have one of these:

Trust: SpyreX

This makes Kuribo slightly more town than Fate though.
I don't like him making excuses for not being as active as he normally is but I could see him being town I guess and Fate is scummier.

VOTE: Fate

[Llamarble]

It's called figuring out the game. I don't solve the game on the first pass.
And I don't usually bother explaining my reads too much until I know who I want to lynch, which I guess I should figure out soon with 6 days left.

[Llamarble]

Also one of the posts quoted was a Kuribo + Fate = scum and I led off explaining why I found you scummy and I didn't even end up calling you town, just more town than Fate.

What is your opinion of Fate?

[Llamarble]

I would have read the game before that reads list even if I was scum.

[Llamarble]

I'm down for either a LL or Vihjay lynch whichever one's more viable

Assuming I am LL, I find this unlikely from Fatetown.
He has a very good track record of reading me correctly when I'm town, and I imagine he would want to actually read me rather than vote me over my hello-lets-get-this-moving-posts.

[Llamarble]

Oh come on. I am already pretty obvtown and I'm just getting started.
Deadline is in about a week, so wasting time wagoning me isn't helpful.

[Llamarble]

You hating it doesn't make it wrong.

[Llamarble]

I feel completely confident in my ability to out-loud you, Spyrex and Fate.
Brimmingly so.
I would not feel that way as scum because it's excruciatingly difficult for me to masspost as scum.

[Llamarble]

I've had actual legitimate time to play for like 1/4 of this game's days and I've already got about as many posts as you do and Spyrex and Fate have less than that.
Somewhere in you normally-loud-quiet-people is scum.
I wasn't in mole mafia. Do you think I'm llamafluff or somesuch?

[Llamarble]

I wasn't available. You were complaining about me being unavailable, which I took as you being available, making your content level disappointing.
And yes I did read. I read things even as scum. And that wouldn't even be scummy if I hadn't read anyway.
And I didn't do a complete 180, which also would not have been scummy at all.

[Llamarble]

The real business will come tonight after some real real work-business.

[Llamarble]

@BB: Fair enough. The problem I'm having with this game is that I don't have any real scumreads yet. It's kinda frustrating. The only question that I wanted answered yesterday was the question you asked vijay. Still I wanted to comment briefly on llama and give out my trust token.

@vijay: Ummmmm... no. Any smart scum team could abuse that reasoning you gave about rule 4. Person gets to lynch threshhold, claims VT in faux-frustration and "rage quits" completely feigning ignorance of rule 4. Based off your reasoning you'd call him town and unvote him.

This post seemed pretty town. Introspection into how one is playing is legit, and not having scumreads yet is a more likely situation for town to have than for scum to make up.
I also thought his scumhunting from the next couple of posts looked earnest enough regardless whether it actually makes any sense.

[Llamarble]

I'm leaning BB town atm. But at about 60-40.

No idea what Spyrex is talking about.

Elmo, that way if we lynched town we could have gotten a legit claim and then backed off, giving us a conftown. Now however, it won't work. Actually that's enough for me to go
VOTE: Elmo

Similarly this is just kinda a weird perspective for scum to make up.
I will look more into the 'A or B is scum' stuff though.
I haven't loaded the whole game into my brain yet, just ISOs so I don't have a notion of the nature of wagonries yet.

[Llamarble]

Kinda in between. I just checked in after dinner and read some.

That argument is correct a decent amount of the time.
Fate in Nomination Mafia, Reck in 1262, me in every game I've ever been scum except Consulmaker.

[Llamarble]

I'll get more complaints about lack of explanations, but this list is more for my benefit.
I think a lot of the scum are in the strong players pile.
Darox has me worried because he's insufferably annoying as town but this time he made an actual list of reads / reasons.
Weirdly, most of these are coming up the same as they came up in round 1.
Actually I'll try and stick explanations in this time because why not and we sure need more things to talk about.

Vijay - Seems to be playing pretty loose and has a few weird-tack-for-scum-to-take things like the 60-40 bit. Meh actually I need to meta this guy pretty hard because of the weird stuff and will do that later.

MattP - Town
Town thinking about somebody are more likely to be subject to a quick mind change:

Trust: Llamamarble

Actually,

untrust: llamarble

He seems too enthusiastic to me, seems too quick to call someone town (darox) making it seem like he knows something we don't, especially since I don't agree with his reasoning.

I don't feel scum could easily fake "I don't know if this is a scumtell but it bothers me":

You don't have any scumreads and your primary focus seems to be giving out your trust token, which comes off as a compulsory sort of feigned townhunting. I get townhunting, I do it. But your immediacy to give out your trust tokens is weird. Idk if it's a scumtell cuz I've never played a game with tokens, but my gut says it's scummy.

He calls my reads list, in which I refer to him as obvtown, crap.

Post 161 was more worthless than the elderly.

Vijay, why do you not give a shit about any of Llamarble's shitty reads that have no reasoning, other than the TML read? Or was that just a question you posed so that you could "lol" at me catching you as scum without your post seeming completely worthless and unproductive?

Fate-
This townlist seems pretty awful to me. HC looks like a good bet to be scum, Implosion could easily be scum, And Fate / Spyspy haven't towned at all yet either.

no idea why I quoted that was gonna say something but then saw a reminder of GreyICE's horrible rule set.

HC is town Implosion is town

Vote: Elmo

ALL TOWN MISSIONZ
Fate
SpyreX
HC
Implosion

That, his vote on me, his 'I am not going to care about D1' and his not being AWESOMEFATE all bother me.


Kanye and Elmo are both worthy of investigation. Elmo has a couple of ehhhhh this might flip town posts though.

[Llamarble]

^ is pretty reachy.

[Llamarble]

Yeah okay I retract my townread on Vijay. He can fake his stuff here.
He's in the maybes.
He works pretty well with HCscum though.

[Llamarble]

Huh? I still have lots of people to read. Maybe I have words on a lot of people but I only have one or two reads that I'm satisfied with for the time being. And the word for calling people confscum on page 2 is :exaggerating: read-strength for effect.

I will do my best to read some more tonight, but I do have to do things other than mafia even when I'm not completely unavailable.

[Llamarble]

I will probably have read everything in this thread 5-6 times before I'm ready to pick somebody to lynch.
Mine is a thorough process.
My reads have ROCKED in my recent games, so you should probably stop demanding that I already have the game solved and let me do my thing.

I haven't gotten into the trust votes yet. I still haven't even really read up on the mechanics.
All I've done so far is read some ISOs going 'did scum or town make these posts.' All the holistic stuff needs to happen.

I have the most posts in the thread and I've been here for 3 days, one of which I was absent, so I think I am working hard enough.
I will get louder when I am trying to mobilize people to do something.

[Llamarble]

Yeah Marble's scum. Plenty of scum on the big wagons trying to refuse to bus.

Marble is playing the ole "IMMA WORKHOUSE 6 TIMES I READ DIS THREAD BEFO I MAKE MAH READZ"
"I POST MORE THAN THE LOT OF YOU IM VALUABLE TO DIS TOWN"

"ILL KEEP MAKNG POSTS ABOUT HOW HARD IM WORKING RATHER THAN POSTS THAT CONTAIN ANY OF SAID WORK AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICES"

yeah
die scum die

YEAH GEE I REALLY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE.
OH WAIT WAY MORE THAN YOU? I THINK SO.

Kuribo is scum.
VOTE: Kuribo

BBmolla is town.

TRUST BBMOLLA

Fate is scum.
Vijay is town.
Darox appears to be his usual self and probably town.
Elmo is probably scum.
HC is quite sketchy.
Implosion is fairly sketchy. BTW if two players are independently very scummy but also very unlikely to be scum together a 'one of these is scum argument' can be legit. Or if they just CC each other obv.
Kanye seems kinda town which is good because I had too many scumz.
MattP seems pretty obvtown.

TRUST MATTP

Spyrex is sketchy.
TML looks pretty town.

Well that's round 1.
Good enough for tonight.

^ this so much

Makes Elmo probably not scum with HC, and a little less likely to be scum in general.
I'm not in love with the rest of that ISO though.
Except 58 which seems to suggest a 'lets figure this out together' townapproach.
Yeah okay no Elmolynch today.

Fate / Kuribo aren't living up to expectations.
I find it unusual that neither of them are louder in a game that could use some loudness.
Fate is especially lurk coasty and not getting much attention for it, which is usually a good scumsign.

suppose it would have helped if I had bookmarked the game

Here, we all know I'm going to wind up doing this at least once anyway, so:

Trust: Fate

I'll catch up in the morning.

This made me think a little bit Kuribo + Fate.

"Slips" catch town more often than scum, I'm finding.

The trick is that idiot scum tend to swarm all over it and try to GOGO MISLYNCH.

Here, SpyreX, have one of these:

Trust: SpyreX

This makes Kuribo slightly more town than Fate though.
I don't like him making excuses for not being as active as he normally is but I could see him being town I guess and Fate is scummier.

VOTE: Fate

I'm down for either a LL or Vihjay lynch whichever one's more viable

Assuming I am LL, I find this unlikely from Fatetown.
He has a very good track record of reading me correctly when I'm town, and I imagine he would want to actually read me rather than vote me over my hello-lets-get-this-moving-posts.

@BB: Fair enough. The problem I'm having with this game is that I don't have any real scumreads yet. It's kinda frustrating. The only question that I wanted answered yesterday was the question you asked vijay. Still I wanted to comment briefly on llama and give out my trust token.

@vijay: Ummmmm... no. Any smart scum team could abuse that reasoning you gave about rule 4. Person gets to lynch threshhold, claims VT in faux-frustration and "rage quits" completely feigning ignorance of rule 4. Based off your reasoning you'd call him town and unvote him.

This post seemed pretty town. Introspection into how one is playing is legit, and not having scumreads yet is a more likely situation for town to have than for scum to make up.
I also thought his scumhunting from the next couple of posts looked earnest enough regardless whether it actually makes any sense.

I'm leaning BB town atm. But at about 60-40.

No idea what Spyrex is talking about.

Elmo, that way if we lynched town we could have gotten a legit claim and then backed off, giving us a conftown. Now however, it won't work. Actually that's enough for me to go
VOTE: Elmo

Similarly this is just kinda a weird perspective for scum to make up.
I will look more into the 'A or B is scum' stuff though.
I haven't loaded the whole game into my brain yet, just ISOs so I don't have a notion of the nature of wagonries yet.

I'll get more complaints about lack of explanations, but this list is more for my benefit.
I think a lot of the scum are in the strong players pile.
Darox has me worried because he's insufferably annoying as town but this time he made an actual list of reads / reasons.
Weirdly, most of these are coming up the same as they came up in round 1.
Actually I'll try and stick explanations in this time because why not and we sure need more things to talk about.

Vijay - Seems to be playing pretty loose and has a few weird-tack-for-scum-to-take things like the 60-40 bit. Meh actually I need to meta this guy pretty hard because of the weird stuff and will do that later.

MattP - Town
Town thinking about somebody are more likely to be subject to a quick mind change:

Trust: Llamamarble

Actually,

untrust: llamarble

He seems too enthusiastic to me, seems too quick to call someone town (darox) making it seem like he knows something we don't, especially since I don't agree with his reasoning.

I don't feel scum could easily fake "I don't know if this is a scumtell but it bothers me":

You don't have any scumreads and your primary focus seems to be giving out your trust token, which comes off as a compulsory sort of feigned townhunting. I get townhunting, I do it. But your immediacy to give out your trust tokens is weird. Idk if it's a scumtell cuz I've never played a game with tokens, but my gut says it's scummy.

He calls my reads list, in which I refer to him as obvtown, crap.

Post 161 was more worthless than the elderly.

Vijay, why do you not give a shit about any of Llamarble's shitty reads that have no reasoning, other than the TML read? Or was that just a question you posed so that you could "lol" at me catching you as scum without your post seeming completely worthless and unproductive?

Fate-
This townlist seems pretty awful to me. HC looks like a good bet to be scum, Implosion could easily be scum, And Fate / Spyspy haven't towned at all yet either.

no idea why I quoted that was gonna say something but then saw a reminder of GreyICE's horrible rule set.

HC is town Implosion is town

Vote: Elmo

ALL TOWN MISSIONZ
Fate
SpyreX
HC
Implosion

That, his vote on me, his 'I am not going to care about D1' and his not being AWESOMEFATE all bother me.


Kanye and Elmo are both worthy of investigation. Elmo has a couple of ehhhhh this might flip town posts though.

^ is pretty reachy.

Yeah okay I retract my townread on Vijay. He can fake his stuff here.
He's in the maybes.
He works pretty well with HCscum though.

[Llamarble]

I'm down for either a LL or Vihjay lynch whichever one's more viable

Fate town would MAKE one of them viable, and Fate town would CARE between two options.

There's a problem when I have no idea who the popular "lets fucking ill it" target of the day is.

Just gonna sit here and wait for mah mission to reap all the reads

You aren't a skip participation D1 player.

Yeah Marble's scum. Plenty of scum on the big wagons trying to refuse to bus.

Marble is playing the ole "IMMA WORKHOUSE 6 TIMES I READ DIS THREAD BEFO I MAKE MAH READZ"
"I POST MORE THAN THE LOT OF YOU IM VALUABLE TO DIS TOWN"

"ILL KEEP MAKNG POSTS ABOUT HOW HARD IM WORKING RATHER THAN POSTS THAT CONTAIN ANY OF SAID WORK AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICES"

yeah
die scum die

This is just incorrect and you should know that.
Except for the I post a lot and am valuable thing, which is indeed a property I have.
Fate/Kuribo/Spyrex were all sitting around not acting like normal / trying to force scum to die but instead waiting for one of the viable lynches (most of which were on pretty clear town) to happen. THAT IS SUSPICIOUS.

[Llamarble]

The only person I've wishwashed on is Vijay because he's weird.
I've been way less useless than the dream-team wagon that is voting me.

[Llamarble]

Wooo ooo ooo sh

I wish I could quote myself and pat myself on the back for posting a lot too

He said I wasn't posting content, which was blatantly wrong. What do you expect me to do?

[Llamarble]

You could try not bitching and complaining about people telling you how much you suck by using how much they suck as a defense

People who normally do not suck sucking is a scumtell, not a complaint.
OMG you suck way more than you would be sucking as town has caught many evildoers.

[Llamarble]

Almost all of the posts I quoted contained reasoning except the first two which were my initial impressions and count as content for that reason.

[Llamarble]

Almost all of the posts I quoted contained reasoning except the first two which were my initial impressions and count as content for that reason.

[Llamarble]

"DON'T CALL ME INACTIVE; I HAVE A LOT OF CONTENT CONSIDERING HOW LONG I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN PLAYING AND IT'S AN ESPECIALLY RIDICULOUS ACCUSATION CONSIDERING YOUR OWN PERFORMANCE"
Is more like it.

Sure you and I have the same number of posts.
I got into the game either Sunday or Monday.

[Llamarble]

Because lurking is just an indescribably wonderful general purpose thing to do as scum that never attracts any suspicion and gives you loads of influence over who gets lynched and gives you an amazingly strong defense against getting lynched that I would clearly do at the start of the game for some reason given the opportunity.

I DID NOT HAVE TIME.

[Llamarble]

Meh Spyrex is town.

[Llamarble]

I guess I'd trust Spyrex but there are going to be 6 people on this mission and he doesn't need it.

I don't know if scumVijay has a deep enough rectal cavity to extract post 60 from.
The entire BB & Imp have different alignments chain is completely bizarre to me and I am having difficulty constructing the mindset it comes from.

The just vs don't thing looks like it was pretty clearly don't an odd typing error though.
(By don't I mean just, don't so we're clear)

[Llamarble]

I liked TML and I like Voided.
So I have some good townreads (Spyspy, MattP, Voided, probablyBBMolla) and a bunch of sketchy people.
I'll have a good chunk of time later today for this game.

[Llamarble]

Wow, everybody declaring inability to post in a row...
I have to finish a work thing this weekend, so unfortunately my promise of content tonight was empty.
Oh darn it deadline is in 1 day.
Okay reading instead of sleeping.

[Llamarble]

Fate, Kuribo, Darox, Implosion should not have as many trust tokens as they do because all of them are pretty suspicious. Darox makes lists / puts in effort as scum and especially is incentivized to do that by the trust mechanic.
And the sketchy people are all trusting each other and making each other be on the mission, which certainly makes sense for scum to do especially if they are excited about their team as any team with at least two of those people would be.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, TML was town because of his 'I am frustrated over my inability to get reads' thing which did not sound fake and other stuff, and voided is also town for everything and in particular 'I'm not really liking his attempt to discredit Marble's point of quoting his ISO. Not that I disagree that it's a bad thing, but I don't think it's THAT bad.' Which is a very hard line of thought to ass-pull.
HE SHOULD BE ON THE MISSION. As should Spyrex, Mattp, BB, and ideally me.

Trust: VoidedMafia

[Llamarble]

Spyrex I think you're town but I think your trust tokens are, like, EXCEPTIONALLY badly placed.
If you move all three of them then the odds of an all town mission will go up a lot.

[Llamarble]

Drawing attention to rule 4 just throws it away.

Elmo, why trust both implosion and BB? Personally I'm reading them as opposite alignments atm.

Also, two more things:
1. It isn't OMGUS if I have a reason
2. You were voting me? whatever for?

These posts make Vijay decently unlikely to be scum. He is by no means obvtown, but I get THE ERGH feelings when I think about what he'll flip should we lynch him.
I don't like any of the top wagons right now, though Vijay's is certainly the least bad.

[Llamarble]

I can not

beleeve

how many efforts I am putting into this game.

Why are you trusting Fate?
Kuribo has a reasonably good chance of being town but Fate is definitely scummy.

[Llamarble]

Elmo is still mostly cloudy but has a couple of 'okay fine this is a little hard to buy from scum' posts.
Not lynching Elmo today but also not comfortable with Elmo on the mission.

[Llamarble]

HC is fairly scummy. 234 and 275 are both kinda the way scum write stuff.
Kanye is probtown. Information is insufficient but 201 and 242 are both townie.
Implosion could flip scum.

Linebreaks indicate a decent jump in towniness/scumminess.

PEOPLE TO SEND ON THE MISSION YEPYEP
Llamarble

MattP
Voidedmafia

Spyrex
BBMolla

CANDIDATES FOR LAST MISSION SPOT (Probtowns)
Kanye

WEIRD PEOPLE
Kuribo
Darox

Vijay

Elmo
Implosion

SCUMMY PEOPLE
HC
Fate

[Llamarble]

BBMolla actually could possibly be scum but it is not exceedingly likely.
Fate being on the mission is my biggest problem with the mission-people as the list stands right now.

[Llamarble]

Untrust BBMolla

(because he doesn't need mine)

Trust Kuribo

(better choice than Fate and I do get a few towntwinges from him.)

[Llamarble]

Vijay lynch isn't wholly disgraceful, but he has several ugh this seems a bit more likely to come from town posts. The whole notion of taking some discussion between two people and generating "I think exactly one of these two is scum" is just weird from scum. But he seems to believe in that notion strongly enough that it jumped out at him that Elmo found both ends of the BB-Implo interaction town. Unless Elmo is his scumbuddy (not impossible at all, though scum don't accuse one another of OMGUS much) it's just a weird incongruity to pick out unless he's actually trying to resolve Elmo's motivations.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, I definitely want the lynch to be from my bottom 5.
I don't feel like I've totally solved this game, but HC and Elmo feel like they have a very good chance to be two of the scums.

I'm going to go to sleep because the sun came out and my head hurts.

[Llamarble]

Still not buying it. And my vote stays

^ this so much

These are the Elmo posts that keep that slot from being a KIWF though.

[Llamarble]

Whee time to pick a lynch or just lynch Vijay by default since there is one day left and he's better than the other active wagons.
Actually Implosion and Elmo each have a vote, which helps them be slightly viable and decent options.

Unsound conclusions can never have sound reasoning. I don't even need to know what your reasoning is to know that it's wrong. Even if one out of me and BB winds up being scum,

your reasoning is still wrong.

This bothered me. I feel like town would just say "Even if BB winds up being scum."

[Llamarble]

He seems too enthusiastic to me, seems too quick to call someone town (darox) making it seem like he knows something we don't, especially since I don't agree with his reasoning.

TownLlama is enthusiastic from what I remember. Don't remember early play/how quick he is to call people town. On the other hand I've never seen him as scum.

I can see kuriboscum.

Matt, telling me to adjust my scumdar because I don't think that one random tell has as much weight as you're saying it should is a bit... what's the word. Patronizing? Don't you think?

Yeah, I've been trying to post but i haven't really had the morale to start actually figuring things out. But Darox saying that I provided no reasons of my own for the kuribo vote is... yeah. no. i did. they just weren't very good.

Today, I have to work. Tomorrow, I'm also going to have to work. I'll be slowly gaining morale over this week, most likely. I'm graduating from high school in about a week... so yeah.

vijay might be scum.

Implosion hasn't originated reads (instead he has given opinions on the reads of others) or really engaged with people. Most of his posting is just "Vijay's one of two logically fails to make sense" (by the way a cop that determines whether two people have the same alignment is a role that should exist at some point).

yeah, maybe i'm just insane.

This is an odd point to leave off discussing Kuribo after voting him. I feel that town implosion would want to get to the bottom of whether he was crazy or not.

Also telling somebody that they :should: read a tell of yours a particular way is a mild scumtell; town are more likely to just say "X is a nulltell for me because Y" rather than telling the other player how they should see it.

I think that Implosion will flip scum.

[Llamarble]

no idea why I quoted that was gonna say something but then saw a reminder of GreyICE's horrible rule set.

HC is town Implosion is town

Vote: Elmo

ALL TOWN MISSIONZ
Fate
SpyreX
HC
Implosion

Trust SpyreX

Oh sick I'm a double voter, sweet

Bbmolla is a double voter

This is probably one of the most poinltess posts I've ever seen

Trust: Darox

How come no trust tokens for HC or Implosion?

[Llamarble]

I can believe in a Fate/Implosion/HC scumteam.
That's my call for today I guess. I don't have THE CONFIDENCE, but that's where I'm at.
VOTE: Implosion
Vijay lynch will not enrage me because he actually fits fairly well as a replacement for any of the 3, associative actions wise.
Fate had a naked soon retracted Vijay vote, HC defended his stuff (might be white knighting or just actual defense), and Implosion breaks down his argument and says he might be scum but doesn't go into any actual scumtells. Plus the Vijay to those guys association direction is also OK, with Implosionbuddy explaining the "ONE OF TWO" thing and an acceptable buddyreaction to that one HC post (93? Yep awesome I got the # right without checking heheahhahha).

TLDR I want to lynch one of Fate, Implosion, or HC today and will compromise on Vijay but am not 100% thrilled by it because of a couple of misgivings-generating posts.

Who all else is interested in a flashwagon on one of those 3?

[Llamarble]

I still don't trust Kuribo very much. My token is on him because he's a better option than Fate, mostly.

[Llamarble]

I think I actually delivered on my claim that I would read everything in the thread 5-6 times. GOD I LOVE BEING TOWN.
Anyway, at this point I'd like everyone to give opinions on Fate Implosion HC and Vijay and say whether they are available to make a deadline vote tomorrow so that we can determine whether a flashwagon is viable.

[Llamarble]

Oh come on.
I have towned ridiculously hard at this point and you know it.

[Llamarble]

We should get a claim from Vijay/Implosion soon depending who it looks like we'll end up lynching, by the way.
Otherwise there won't be anytime to think about it and the post claim part of the day is quite valuable.

[Llamarble]

We're getting to the 'in danger of no-lynch point.
People should all put their votes on Vijay or Implosion.

[Llamarble]

I agree with the previous two posts.

Trust: MattP

Llamarble has now been attacking me for the entire day, going as far as to factor the potential of me being scumbuddies into the rest of his reads. However, only once has he actually brought up specifics as to WHY I'm scum:

HC is fairly scummy. 234 and 275 are both kinda the way scum write stuff.

There are several problems with this:
1) Nothing is wrong with the posts in question,
2) "kinda" is an incredibly weak adjective to use on the only case you make against the player who is scum in all of your hypothetical scenarios, and
3) Llamarble has been calling me scum for literally the entire game- well before Post 234 was made. If my posts prior to 234 were suspicious enough to make Llamarble think that I'm scum, then why ignore them, or at least use them to bolster the "kinda" case?

I'm not going to flip out and assume that any player attacking me must be scum, but at the same time Llamarble's insistence that I'm scum is awful, and I certainly don't understand why anybody would consider him obvtown.

I've been attacking a lot of people, and at this point I've gone into a lot more detail on a lot more reads than anybody.
Scum make a lot of player X, please contemplate player Y type posts (234)
X cannot possibly believe his own argument (275) is also a logicstructure you see more from scum than from town.
And your other posting just works from scum.

That being said, I can see you being town too. Fate + Kuribo + Implosion may be the way of things.
Voided being scum would surprise me, though Implosion's reaction to his wagon wasn't YAYSCUM because he expressed ambivalence about his counterwagon and tried to start one on somebody new.
I would love to lynch Fate or Kuribo but neither have enough momentum at the moment.
We should use a lynch on Fate or Kuribo tomorrow I think, since those people get very hard to lynch once the town leaders have been NKed. It's fairly likely I'll die tonight but w/e maybe scum are dumb enough to think they have some kind of actual shot at lynching me.

[Llamarble]

Voided flipping scum is imaginable, but he does have some towntells.
Vijay's claim delivery was at least moderately town.
Implosion not biting on the most obvious counterwagon was moderately town, though Implosion has the least 'ehhhh I dunno if he could fake this as scum' stuff out of the three

[Llamarble]

Ah, got it.
And the mission size doesn't change from 6, so if there are any scum left when 6 players remain we lose.
Yeah, that does make sense with no nightkill.

And 390 is a little sketchy because "I'm going to pretend I don't know there's no scum NK" is one of a relatively small number of possible explanations for it.

[Llamarble]

Fate's Elmo vote isn't bad.
Hopefully voided will flip scum. I don't feel confident enough in my own reads yet to really kick and scream for something else to happen.

[Llamarble]

If you want to wagon one of [Fate Elmo Kuribo HC Implosion] I'm pretty sure I prefer each of those lynches over voided.

[Llamarble]

I also like Elmo better as a lynch than voided.
There are lots of scummy people on Elmo now though.
VOTE: Elmo
Why do we not have claims from either of the possible lynches with a couple hours till deadline?

[Llamarble]

HC's still on Voided though, so he probably liked that lynch.
This will do I suppose.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, 444 does sound better than Fate's previous stuff.

[Llamarble]

Too tired to do actually useful things, but vijay saying he figured out factional abilities exist from a role action he used on Implosion, and saying he was planning to neuter implosion, etc, strongly point to Vijay town.

I also agree with Implosion's post about probably not exactly one scum for the reasons he stated. I'm pretty sure if scum lets us go on lots of unscrewedwith missions we do really well, and I think we should unquestionably send the same group. If scum didn't interfere before but do now, then we just laugh at them for giving us a free night and know there's scum in the 6; if they don't have the ability to interfere then :awesomesauce:

[Llamarble]

If there are less than 2 scum in Fate Kanye HC voided I will be surprised indeed.
Fate is reminding me a lot of Fatescum from Nomination Mafia.
Fatetown knows the difference between obvtown me and scum me.

[Llamarble]

If there are less than 2 scum in Fate Kanye HC voided I will be surprised indeed.
Fate is reminding me a lot of Fatescum from Nomination Mafia.
Fatetown knows the difference between obvtown me and scum me.

Yeah its D2 scum so you still parroting around this "WELL LOLMETA TOWNFATE CAN READ ME ERGO SCUMFATE NAO OMGUS" stance and not actually having any REAL points on me is going to bite you in the ass sooner or LATER

I hope SOONER but with this derpfuck town a man can only dream so much

1. I have stated a NUMBER of important reasons I find it likely you're scum this game.
2. "WELL LOLMETA TOWNFATE CAN READ ME ERGO SCUMFATE NAO OMGUS" is a REAL argument.
When Fate suddenly turned on me in Nomination mafia, I had a feeling of WTF this makes NO SENSE from Fate which dealt a big blow to my townread on him. He was scum that game. When I've been town and played in exactly the same massposting obvtown manner as I've played here (I have never succeeded in playing like I've played here as scum; my townmeta really is just blatantly different from my scummeta), Fate has fakeclaimed masons with me TWICE to keep me from being lynched, once in spite of role information suggesting I was scum.

HC is probably who we should be lynching today though.
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

[Llamarble]

Fate trying to lynch me today feels like he is in desperation mode because we had an all town mission.

Trust: Kuribo
Trust: Spyrex
Trust: BBMolla

We should unquestionably send the same group.
Good Things happen when we have missions succeed and there is ZERO reason to change the group sent from yesterday's.

[Llamarble]

Also also: Loudly decrying Fate while sliding a vote on the barely-there player doesn't make me happy.

I just played a game as scum where I used basically this reasoning to protect my barely-there scumbuddy, but mreh.
I want a reads list from HC.

[Llamarble]

Yeah nah yeah nah yeah nah Fate is the worst wagon.

Also also: Loudly decrying Fate while sliding a vote on the barely-there player doesn't make me happy.
Let's make some shit fucking happen.

Vote: Llamarble

Fate, I had marble down as scum for sure yesterday, but mechanic-wise a trouble-free night?

HELP ME OUT HERE

BARE YOUR FEET AND SHOW ME THE WAY

Ah thats right you guys are the brilliant brilliant players who helped scumfate mislynch obvtown me in Nomination mafia after I'd finished making two scumlynches happen. I mean Darox had been dead for a day but he was behind it too. Then Fate had to tell kuribo to vote for him, haha.

My vote on HC is role related, btw.

[Llamarble]

My vote on HC is role related, btw.

Lol NOPE.

You lock yourself into a claim right fuckign NOW so there's no "whoops tehee" later.

I would prefer to hear from him first.
I wanted to just let him talk for awhile in general before I said anything but I got impatient.

[Llamarble]

You're being abnormally dense or scum, Fate/Kuribo.
Fate's posting has been exceptionally bad this game to a degree I find difficult to believe from Fatetown who is a player I respect.
He's also just flat out scummy, so Fate is NOT to be left alive too long.

1. I would have ZERO reason to 1v1 HC who I probably have enough clout to get lynched anyway, particularly considering I was sent on the mission yesterday. That you / Kuribo are reacting as if I am scum that did this makes NO SENSE.

2. I GOT my action (supplies) that I used BECAUSE the mission succeeded. So for that reason alone I'm pretty effing obvtown.

All shall be revealed in time.

[Llamarble]

Unvote

Bah, I really wanted to hear from HC by now.
Anyway, if he's town HE has role information, so we're certainly not lynching him without him talking.

I used a software activity detector on him today and found out that he used a software activity detector N1.
This makes him more likely to be scum because it's unlikely town started with more than a couple of abilities, whereas scum probably started with about 2.
So P(did something | scum) is higher than P(did something | town) by a good margin which by Bayes rule makes him more likely scum.
I also find it more symmetric and modoutguessappealing that scum would start with a detector (rolecop is a better power for scum anyway) and we might get one from the mission. And the dude is just scummy.

I rolled out this information the way I did because I think the software activity detector isn't really useful for anything other than generating reads, which hopefully this exercise has done. I do think HC is a good lynch for today but this is not a 1v1, and I found how eager Fate / others seemed to be to make it into one unsettling.

I'll be able to read some more tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

You both have nothing more useful than that to say?
Great.

[Llamarble]

oh, and I was told that there may be consequences if I dilly-dallied about using it.

Yeah this seems to be common to all the things.

I said my vote was motivated by role information.
Then I clarified what this information was.

But if you're accusing me of being buddies with HC, I don't have any particular objection to lynching HC and your #1 has certainly crossed my mind while I was wondering if he was trying to wait out my patience before claiming to avoid getting caught, but meh. He did use an information role though, so letting him die without talking is a bad idea.

[Llamarble]

Yes.
Maybe he has a result like "FATE USED THE EVIL MACHINE" or something along those lines.

Also I am BLAZINGLY obvtown at this point.

[Llamarble]

Do you really think that I cooked up 'I got my supplies as a result of the mission' and then played D2 the way I have so far?
The mission succeeded and D1 I massposted and looked for scum harder than anybody. My townmeta is BLATANTLY different from my scummeta. Like to a truthtell level. And however much you may hate people saying they're obvtown, the people who do are usually town.

[Llamarble]

I feel very confident about Kuribo town for his off the cuff 'Oh I got an item from mission success too,' by the way.

[Llamarble]

Vijay your analysis of us being different alignments makes no sense. Just saying.

This. Actually, mathematically speaking, you can

never

identify two people as being different alignments more strongly than you can identify one of their alignments on its own. For instance, say that you're 70% sure that X is town and 60% sure that Y is scum. Then the probability that they have differing alignments is (.7*.6)+(.4*.3) = 54%. More than that, it's logically provable that there are no "they have different alignments" tells (that is, there's no reliable way to say 'i'm X% sure that these two players have different alignments' without saying how likely you think each of them are to be each alignment. Basically, scumhunting ought to start on the individual scale.

Also, criticizing vijay for voting me without calling me scum is plain reaching. Voting post-RVS in and of itself is a declaration of suspicion.

No.

Saying "I just feel BB and implosion have different alignments" is unacceptable.

It has exactly as much merit as the statement "I feel an asteroid with mass at least 7 kg will hit the earth some time between 6.04 and 6.05 million years from now."

This is

regardless

of how you ascertained your answer.

I'm not saying this just because i like to argue logic - if we allow people to use "I think one of x and y is scum" as an argument, it allows scum to chain-push two people without any accountability until they both flip town. Essentially, it gives them a free ride for two days (or more than that if both the targets stay alive longer) by just saying "well one of them is scum, one flipped town, let's lynch the other now."

Unsound conclusions can never have sound reasoning. I don't even need to know what your reasoning is to know that it's wrong. Even if one out of me and BB winds up being scum,

your reasoning is still wrong.

Well he is correct that I didn't do anything D1 or N1. (the detector provides information about the current and previous phase)
I didn't really expect him to lie about that though.

[Llamarble]

Doh, those quotes are because I was responding to Implosion's complaint about Bayes rule, which makes no sense given the type of player Implosion is.

[Llamarble]

Stop being dumb and vote something useful.
There is zero reason for me to play the way I've played this game as scum and every reason for me to do so as town.
Reading me as scum this game is just flat out wrong.

scum bailing from his buddies wagon before it grows too big to stop?

I'm tired of dying N1 and I'm sure as not dying before I get to go on secret mission so fuck you all lynch me if you can

unvote vote fate

so what do you guys think about a fate flash wagon?

Kanye very much can flip scum. I don't think he really expected a Fate flash wagon to happen, so it's a pretty safe request to make, or at any rate he didn't push very hard for it. Kanye goes in the TODAY'S POSSIBLE LYNCHES pile.

BBMolla actually works fairly well as scum, particularly with Fate (you need to yell at me more comment is distancy) but he does call me town in a fairly unusual manner for scum to and unless his 9:4 speculation comes true it would be rather random from mafia; they don't usually bother speculating about their own team size / abilities. Though Amrunscum has done it so it's not a 100% towntell.

Darox is town enough not to lynch today but not in the STRONG TOWNREADS pile. I still think his catchup post was kinda scummy.

Fate needs to die at some point; today would be a good time. His reads this game have been pretty much 100% calling town (Elmo, me, probsvijay, probspyrex) scum, being totally useless early game, and getting all excited about me saying I had role info motivating my HC vote in a very 'ooh ooh now we get to mislynch both' fashion. He's repeatedly demanded to be on the mission and said he wants to wait until then to read, which is not in keeping with how he plays as town and especially doesn't make sense after the first mission succeeded. Also anybody who's sheeping him is sheeping somebody who self admittedly isn't reading the game, so there is something wrong with you.

HC is about 1.5X as likely as anybody else to be scum from a role standpoint, which immediately puts him into the reasonable lynches pile.
He also works quite well as scum and has several particularly scummy posts (386 feels the need to specifically state "I am not going to flip out and attack somebody just for calling me scum"). He goes in the today's lynch options pile.

Kuribo MattP Vijay are all strong townreads for me; Spyrex is also a townread to a lesser extent.
Regardless, not interested in lynching anybody from the mission since nobody on it is top-tier scummy and we want to make the missions keep succeeding. Vijay's compromise power is weird though and I'd like clarification of what it does.

Also, imp your vote probably won't work. That's sort of what I got from it.

This was wrong, so I expect a better explanation.

VM has some towntells. He's played a good game if he's scum, and so has his predecessor with the 'I frustratingly lack reads' bit.
I don't want to lynch him today.

Implosion will probably flip scum.

[Llamarble]

ACCEPTABLE LYNCHES:
Fate
HC
Kanye
Implosion

I'll do the additional work to pick one of them soon, but as of now I do not intend to allow anybody not in this group to be lynched today.

[Llamarble]

Three lurkers and the guy who suspects you.

What a bastion of pro-town stances you are marble.

There are like 5 non lurkers in this town, and two of them are on my scumlist, so this is complete trash. Also I am pretty sure I've attacked you since before you attacked me. You've been tunneling me all game despite the fact that I am now rolemechanical-town in addition to strategicplay-town in addition to protown-effort town in addition to attitude-town.

As for you trying to take advantage of me saying my vote on HC was role-powered:

My vote on HC is role related, btw.

Lol NOPE.

You lock yourself into a claim right fuckign NOW so there's no "whoops tehee" later.

Marble says "oh well it was just a HUNCH ROLE RLATED NOT GUARANTEED GUIZ /FAKECLAIM"

He's done nothing thats why everyone would go OH YOU when Marblegoes "WALP SORRY HC was just SOOOOOOOO USELESS i HAD to."

Yeah

fuck that

I WANT AT LEAST CLARIFICATION OF A HANDS DOWN NO BULLSHIT 1v1 BY MARBLE NO BACKSIES

SINCE I KNOIW HIS SCUMASS WONT CLARIFY HIS ROLE CUZ

"LOLFATESCUM BE ROLEFISHIN YO:"

Your default assumption was that I was lying and trying to mislynch HC. IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT I WOULD DO THAT / THAT YOU WOULD ASSUME THAT WITHOUT SOME KIND OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITUATION. The obvious reaction was the reaction everybody else had, which was 'ok lets vote HC and see.' Your reaction reminds me a lot of my scumplay in Outwitted. I thought you-town was lying so I decided to take advantage of that by proving how implausible your claim was to Spyrex. And I actually thought I was telling the truth so I was able to be convincing. I can't even rule you out as scumbuddies with HC because the exact situation where Seraphim claimed a guilty on GreyICE (my buddy) and I thought he was lying felt a lot like this.

[Llamarble]

hi. marbles beliefs dont make any fucking sense as someone who genuinely believes all the shit he says.

This is like the purest form of scumlogic.
Also, why not?

[Llamarble]

If HC used an ability on me and got a 'marble didn't use a device' result that would also explain Fate assuming I was fakeclaiming.

[Llamarble]

It's a device I got at the end of N1 which I used and found out HC used a device during N1 with the same name.

[Llamarble]

I use memories of how I have felt/behaved as scum to put myself in other peoples' scumshoes.
This has been a big part of my approach for a long time.

Nobody other than me / Kuribo has spoken up about getting an ability from the mission, and simply not giving supplies to everyone solves your 'scum who don't sabotage get outed' problem. And the abilities we received are weak enough that the primary benefit of them may have been that they are supposed to make it harder to lynch us. As MattP mentioned, I was also the first player to claim getting something. There is also no reason I can think of for me scum to give information I gathered out to the town, or to choose to target HC with such a role instead of somebody unlikely to get lynched. My role does not make me confirmed town, but my overall play does make me obvtown and thinking otherwise is simply incorrect lazy reading.

[Llamarble]

Behind. Will catch up ASAP.

You're posting a lot more in other games than this one.
Grrr.

My first pass rereading all my lynch candidates failed to produce a favorite. Bleh.

[Llamarble]

Behind. Will catch up ASAP.

You're posting a lot more in other games than this one.
Grrr.

My first pass rereading all my lynch candidates failed to produce a favorite. Bleh.

"I still can't actuallycome up with good reasons as to why any of my reads are scum"

mmmmmmmmmm

post above that is just horseshit used to justify his scumplay in this game.

Also plenty of "WELL I SAID IT FRIST SO I CAN NEVER BE SCUMZ"

Like many things Fate has said this game, this post is disgustingly stupidly obviously wrong.
I have given more and better reasons for more reads INCLUDING THESE ONES than Fate has to an extent that is laughable.
This particular post did not contain reasons because I didn't come to a decision, and it is not worth my time to go through the reasons this round of re-ISOing my scum candidates didn't produce a strong #1 choice. Why in the %#$&8 would you expect anything different?

[Llamarble]

Hey Spyspy who is scum?
And who would you prefer out of my lynch pile?

[Llamarble]

yo real chat the "xxx who is normally loud and aggressive but isnt this game so hes scum" is like,,, the worst fucking argument you could ever make. youre straight fuckin retarded if you would actually try and lynch someone for that.

^ Response to me talking about Fate

agreed.

untrust implosion trust marble

^ Response to me calling myself obvtown

I'm tired of dying N1 and I'm sure as not dying before I get to go on secret mission so fuck you all lynch me if you can

unvote vote fate

so what do you guys think about a fate flash wagon?

blah blah blah delayed hammer with unvoting allowed blah blah lynch fate lynch fate lynch fate more words zzz

If you want to wagon one of [

Fate

Elmo Kuribo HC Implosion] I'm pretty sure I prefer each of those lynches over voided.

yes

trust marble mattp spyrex

hi. marbles beliefs dont make any fucking sense as someone who genuinely believes all the shit he says. im sorry for ever doubting you fate, please forgive me~~~

unvote vote marble

^Wat

Also he is both trusting me and voting me atm.
So yeah, what suddenly doesn't make sense as me believing what I'm saying?

[Llamarble]

Update: I am finally employed by somebody who isn't a family member for the first time in four years. I spent most of today at training and don't have the energy to reread. I'll try to post tomorrow.

Sorry about the delay; the new job has pretty much messed up my schedule. Things should be more consistent in the future, though.

I'm going to be away from the apartment for most of the afternoon, but I'll get caught up this evening.

Prod received. Reading now.

Also, I see this at the top of the page:

I used a software activity detector on him today and found out that he used a software activity detector N1.

I did indeed use a Software Activity Detector last night, targeting Llamarble. Llamarble did not use any software Day or Night 1.

Llamarble said he used his software activity detector TODAY. I used mine LAST NIGHT. Learn to read.

Also, in hilariously-bad-timing news, my wife just got home and told me that we are returning some pants to the store and for some reason this is non-negotiable. I will finish getting caught up when we get back.

Gwappa gwappa.

[Llamarble]

p-edit imho we keep the mission team the same. either its a winning combination or we force the scum hiding in it to show his hand.

Kanyescum probably has a buddy on the mission then? (this is at least slightly unlikely from Kanyescum without any missionbuddies).

But yeah, he doesn't have the misgivings-inducing posts that the other scummyones do.
VOTE: kanyeknowsbest

[Llamarble]

You got second place, if that cheers you up.

You don't really have any notable wrath this game.
Just a lot of "WHEEE I'M NOT READING HERE LETS CALL MARBLE SCUM FOR ANOTHER UTTERLY GARBAGETASTIC REASON"

[Llamarble]

I'mma go through the Kanye posts that gave me twinges.

hi. marbles beliefs dont make any fucking sense as someone who genuinely believes all the shit he says. im sorry for ever doubting you fate, please forgive me~~~

unvote vote marble

"I can't buy that X believes what he says he believes" is a super frequent vote-reason from scum.
Scum are usually looking for weird to believe stuff people say rather than tone/effort tells and other such things because deeper tells are harder to find especially when there's no reason for them to exist because the target is town.

scum bailing from his buddies wagon before it grows too big to stop?

This gave me a twinge because it's the kind of thing scum often throw out there.
Especially as a question rather than an observation.
This in particular isn't an especially strong scumtell though.

you guys keep talking about getting nightkilled but did anyone read the sample scum role pm? it doesnt read like they have a factional kill. plus we get plurality lynches which makes sense in a game with no night kill.

Scum have higher awareness of scum abilities. Though 'did anyone read the sample scum PM' is a plausible thing for town who did just that to say.

@mod in the case of two equal wagons does your plurality take the senior wagon?

regardless id rather see elmo go than vm.

unvote vote elmo

Scum are generally very interested in exactly how lynches work mechanically because they want to plan things out / make sure they get the one they want. Town just vote people they think are scum and try to convince others to join them, for the most part.

what lead you to believe there would be a nightkill when it was discussed in the last few pages before the end of d1 that the pms and win conditions and plurality lynches indicated there would be no nightkill?

Again, I don't think it was super obvious that there would be no NK, so him being aware of it is a mild scumtell.

fyi this only makes sense if you assume that scum dont get their own abilities at night. in a game where they dont have a nightkill. and in specific with an ability that is immensely alignment independent.

so are you retarded or scum trying to force your buddy into being conftown?

'in a game where they don't have a nightkill' and 'with an ability that is alignment independent' are both the kind of backup logicks scum use. Not wholly unreasonable from town, but I do not like this post. Also it is question instead of observation again.

im not trying to smear his claim? hc has confirmed that what llama claimed is true, theres no disputing that it happened unless llama and hc are scum pulling some retarded gambit on us. what im saying is that its not alignment indicative and certainly does not make him conftown like matt is trying to suggest.

Again, putting effort into dispelling people calling others conftown is something I see more from scum than from town.

Also he is both trusting me and voting me atm.

so? youre full enough of yourself that youll no sabotage again. if we cant lynch you im perfectly happy with you being on the mission.

I don't like this. I personally care a lot about making sure we don't have scum on the mission and played a big role in choosing who went yesterday; Kanye's attitude about it feels off.


So yeah, overall I think the chances Kanye flips scum are good.
Not my strongest read OF ALL TIME, but he does not have any 'oh darn it this guy will probably flip town' posts, which towns usually do have.

[Llamarble]

HC should probably be getting replaced, right?
This is some pretty serious lurkflakatron.

[Llamarble]

Darox being horribly useless is reassuring somehow.

[Llamarble]

LIKE HELL I AM!! I WANNA LIVE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PRS BE DAMNED

AT LEAST BE HAPPY YOU CAN TAKE ME WITH YOU TOMORROW, OKAY?!!

This post coming :immediately: after Fate's post is pretty town; I think scum would show a little trepidation.
Voided is playing pretty well if he's scum. I don't want to lynch him today.

I'll have to do another Implosion vs Fate vs HC vs Kanye readthrough soon.

[Llamarble]

I've had Vijay written off as town for awhile because of claiming his action D1 and then targeting Implosion and how all of that worked out.
784 doesn't particularly bother me.
His posting in general makes sense from town.

[Llamarble]

Can we have some actual argument over who to lynch from people other than me?
Deadline is in 4 days and I don't want scum to get deadlinelynchcontrol.
Though hopefully it will get pushed back to replace HC because that slot should be a lynch candidate but there is nobody to talk to.
I am not willing to lynch outside of HC Kanye Fate today.

[Llamarble]

We're still not lynching Fate. This is why I can't take you seriously.

You are a decent chunk of the reason I'm not voting Fate.
Do not disappoint me.
Also your vote on me is totally retarded, considering you're one of the players here who has seen llamascum vs llamatown.

I very much disagree that the mission being free of scum is implausible.
BBMolla is the only decently scummy player on the mission, with Darox or Spyrex (exceptionally useless this game) having an outside shot at being scum. Which makes me strongly doubt 2-or-more.
And with 1 they would likely have sabotaged / eveniftheydidn'twewanttolynchoutside.

I don't remember why I think VM is town other than TML's reads frustration and some random stuff, but I'll go look again.
I eliminated him from my today lynches list a while back.
If you want to pretend I'm scum with somebody VM seems like a good choice. Spyrex would work for that too I suppose.

[Llamarble]

trust: MattP

Llamarble's assertion that talking about mechanics in the early game is a scum tell just doesn't feel right to me. I understand that's what he said he'd do as scum, but why does what you would do in a situation have to do with what others would do?

@BB: Fair enough. The problem I'm having with this game is that I don't have any real scumreads yet. It's kinda frustrating. The only question that I wanted answered yesterday was the question you asked vijay. Still I wanted to comment briefly on llama and give out my trust token.

@vijay: Ummmmm... no. Any smart scum team could abuse that reasoning you gave about rule 4. Person gets to lynch threshhold, claims VT in faux-frustration and "rage quits" completely feigning ignorance of rule 4. Based off your reasoning you'd call him town and unvote him.

Yes I read Vijay's iso. HE NEVER ACTUALLY CALLED IMPLOSION SCUM. He called them different alignments yes (and then switched his mind) Notice how he has yet to give even an inkling of reasoning for saying ANY of this.

Spyrex, I asked for reasons why implosion was scum because my vote was an rvs vote and I didn't have a scumread on anyone. Or else I would have changed my vote.

I'm still not seeing how not having any scumreads on page fucking 4 is scummy.

Yeah this dude was not going to flip scum and voided inherited his townread and then did good things like pretty remorselessly calling me town (guess we don't work as buddies after all huh) and saying some townie stuff.

[Llamarble]

Eh there's a very solid chance you'd have been lynched today if the mission had failed.

I hate how little people are defending themselves / doing things in general. It's making it really hard to be confident about things and then everybody else is being useless because they don't have reads.
I just want Kanye to flip scum so I can feel good about this game again. I wish I could just kill all of Kanye Fate HC Implosion. If none of them are scum, then just lol.

[Llamarble]

Because you want to lynch him and he is calling me town.
Go read my 826, where I answered this same question when you asked it earlier.

He could be scum, but he and his predecessor have definitely done town things and I want to get rid of somebody from my these people really bother me list today.

[Llamarble]

Because you want to lynch him and he is calling me town.
Go read my 826, where I answered this same question when you asked it earlier.

He could be scum, but he and his predecessor have definitely done town things and I want to get rid of somebody from my these people really bother me list today.

[Llamarble]

Telling other people to sheep me sure sounds like something scum would say about a townie who was wrong, which I have to admit is not awesome for my confidence level this game.

[Llamarble]

I feel like llamarble. I have reads, but I'm not really confident in any of them, and I'm not sure why.

This post sounds scummy to me.
But yeah let's just lynch Kanye and get on with things unless a replacement shows up and scums things up super hard.

[Llamarble]

If you do flip town, I'll be curious to hear where you went from 'Marble is correct that he just towned really hard' to 'Marble can't believe the things he's saying' (a stance which had no examples behind it and I'd have been happy to explain myself). Anyway, you haven't said anything that's made me feel bad about you being lynched.

[Llamarble]

f you pay attention to the rules of the game your scum. btw i forgot to mention earlier that i think thats a really great argument marble.

I guess this is an example.
People who don't fall into the 'always knows what's going on' category are more likely to know what's going on with unusual rules if they are scum because they get a lot more information and plan with buddies / do more studying pregame. Anyway, that is a ridiculous thing to say I'd make up as scum because it's a theory statement and I don't asspull theory statements as scum unless I have some unusually pressing agenda.

[Llamarble]

p-edit imho we keep the mission team the same. either its a winning combination or we force the scum hiding in it to show his hand.

Kanyescum probably has a buddy on the mission then? (this is at least slightly unlikely from Kanyescum without any missionbuddies).

But yeah, he doesn't have the misgivings-inducing posts that the other scummyones do.
VOTE: kanyeknowsbest

So 'either it's a winning combination...' implies he felt chances of scum free were decent.

Or scum will be forced to show their hand suggests scum on the mission would be likely to sabotage it.

Except me, who would apparently not sabotage out of arrogance (????)

Also he is both trusting me and voting me atm.

so? youre full enough of yourself that youll no sabotage again. if we cant lynch you im perfectly happy with you being on the mission.

Also apparently the "it's a winning combination" possibility is now to be discounted:

let me put it like this: i think there is absolutely no way the mission is free of scum. i think fate already used this example but its like the red wagon. its just not happening with how easy those public votes are to manipulate. and if there was only one scum on the mission then not sabotaging was a big mistake.

so in my mind its a decision between poor scumplay with one scum on the mission or 2+ scum on the mission with smart play. and i dont see anyone on the mission that i think would make the poor decision there.

Wanna explain your train of thought for us Kanye?

Also you may as well claim.

[Llamarble]

He might just be playing really badly this game.
And Darox said he was a terrible lynch which sounded vaguely like role information.
Last time I read Kanye/Fate/you/Implosion Kanye came up least likely to flip town.
But really there isn't any great reason and Fate dying soon is a good idea.

[Llamarble]

WAT

WAAAAAAAAAAAAT

A CES

THAT CANT

READ ME

AUTO SCUM

VOTE: CES

You sure seemed to not like it when I used exactly the same argument against you.

[Llamarble]

If there are less than 2 scum in Fate Kanye HC voided I will be surprised indeed.
Fate is reminding me a lot of Fatescum from Nomination Mafia.
Fatetown knows the difference between obvtown me and scum me.

Yeah its D2 scum so you still parroting around this "WELL LOLMETA TOWNFATE CAN READ ME ERGO SCUMFATE NAO OMGUS" stance and not actually having any REAL points on me is going to bite you in the ass sooner or LATER

I hope SOONER but with this derpfuck town a man can only dream so much

[Llamarble]

Because of some genius-level fake-scum-bussing between Fate and me, or something. Should be roughly 5 pages back.

P-EDIT: U mad.

I liked your reaction time, but Fate can (and almost certainly has previously) fake his side of that exchange. And you got a little too into it, which made me doubt my townread on you a bit because it felt like you believed you'd hit on a way to get people to think you were town and wanted to milk it, but eh.

CES not calling me scum has substantially damped my wanting to lynch his slot.
Maybe I'm susceptible to buddying but that's because usually people who do so are town.

[Llamarble]

Yeah maybe voided is scum.
That would make sense.

What do you think of Kanye though?

[Llamarble]

KanyeKnowsBest -Llamarble, VoidedMafia, MattP, bbmolla, implosion,
This is a pretty good wagon though, particularly with Kuribo on it.
I'm starting to like Implosion more. "I've been buddying you the whole game why don't you like me" feels town to me.

[Llamarble]

Yeah maybe voided is scum.
That would make sense.

What do you think of Kanye though?

Make up your mind about me -_-.

You took the time to explain how TML was town and that I haven't changed that (in funny comparison to Vijay saying TML is scum and I haven't changed that which I find to be complete bull), and that my spat with Fate was at least somewhat townie, yet as soon as CES says I'm the 2nd man you're all, "oh hey yeah, this guy may be right, maybe Voided is scum, coolio."

Dude.

CES showing up and calling me town / you scum definitely shook the confirmation bias.

[Llamarble]

VoidedMafia:

Haschel Cedricson, MattP, implosion, Elmo TeH AzN, vijay2vasandani

vijay2vasandani:

bbmolla, VoidedMafia

Implosion:

Llamarble, spyrex

Llamarble:

kuribo, fate

MattP:

Darox

kuribo:

implosion

Fate:

Llamarble, kanyeknowsbest,

BBMolla:

Darox:

Elmo TeH AzN:

Not Voting:

The fact that we managed to get from here to an Elmo lynch, with most of the people on Voided's wagon looking pretty decent right now, is also not a good sign for voided.

[Llamarble]

Hey Kanye, you could really help yourself out by explaining your thought processes behind the things I described in 887-889.
I don't want to lynch you if you're town.

[Llamarble]

I didn't want you to be scum because I called you town earlier and Fate was calling you scum, so I was confirmation biasing somewhat.
But then CES showed up and didn't sound horribly evil and called you scum, which shook me out of that and I reread and found you possiblescum.

I'm still pretty happy lynching Kanye though, since neither Fate nor CES seem to want that lynch and there's probably a scum in that pair.

[Llamarble]

Hey Kanye, you could really help yourself out by explaining your thought processes behind the things I described in 887-889.
I don't want to lynch you if you're town.

hey marble are you fishing for an excuse to back off from my lynch so you can let plurality coast it through and keep your hands clean? like if you really are ill humor you here but im not gonna bother otherwise.

Regardless whether I am on your wagon at the end of the day, I think it's fair to say, if it happens, that I caused your lynch today.
And if we lynch somebody else that will probably be at least partially caused by me too.
So no, responsibility avoidance is not my aim here.
If I was scum I'd be trying to get towncred for appearing to care whether my target is scum or not, but really I just actually care / hate being wrong.

[/totallynottryingtomilkanytowncred<_<]

Why do you have to say stuff like that in otherwise unobjectionable posts...

Spyrex what is your opinion of Fate at this point?

[Llamarble]

Actually my ego is offended he hasn't mentioned me

That might be enough to persuade me

You have kind of been nonparticipating.

[Llamarble]

and fucking spyrex is too enraptured with hate chicken to be of any use

That smells a little like a Spyrexbuddy, but eh.

You should up your game a bit qualitywise, 'marble, by the bye. Letting Fate just skip on by and going after my slot for having a pro-town power is subpar.

I've put a fair amount of time and energy into attacking Fate.
VOTE: Fate
If I didn't have a behavioral scumread on your slot, I probably wouldn't have wagoned it.

[Llamarble]

Kanye wagon is mostly made out of town though ehhhh.

[Llamarble]

There are like 817 people who have expressed interest in voting Fate.
Me
CES
Spyrex sort of
Implosion

Well okay 4ish, but that + 1 or two more could be enough.

[Llamarble]

I will be fine with either a Kanye or a Fate lynch today but am pretty meh on a voided lynch.
*cue scum picking whichever of my preferred choices isn't actually scum to push on*

[Llamarble]

Your continued flip-flopping on your read on me is starting to get a little annoying. Just pick a read and stick with it for the rest of the day.

This is not how reads work.
Why do you care whether my read on you is consistent or not anyway?

[Llamarble]

Uh Matt you're going to have to explain that one because after this page HOLY #RJ:FL FATE NEEDS DEATH.

[Llamarble]

I am not just avoiding lynching mission people because of the mission success.
I'm avoiding it because I don't have scumreads on them.
Darox maybe, or BBMolla, but Spyrex/Vijay/Kuribo are all pretty town and neither of the other two are in the same league as Fate HC Kanye.

[Llamarble]

I don't know how much you've played with Fate before, but this stuff is very much scumfate.

[Llamarble]

The thing is if scum play it quiet and keep allowing the mission to succeed we will probably have a powerrole orgy and crush them.
The game rules make it sound like scum should :want: to make the mission fail, so unless there are 2 or more scum there are probably none, and I'm inclined to think we had none. Hate Chicken is a good game.

As for Fate's scumminess this page, he isn't doing exactly the same thing he's done in a particular previous game, it's just he's capsing out Fatefakeable stuff in a way that feels like "I SHOULD POST SOME RAGEY THINGS AND TRY TO MAKE MY WAGON GO ELSEWHERE."
Then again he picked Spyrex to attack of all people, which isn't exactly easy targeting. WHY CAN'T I MAKE UP MY MIND THIS GAME.
Maybe we should just go back to lynching Kanye. That wagon was made out of towns and all the right people objected to it and stuff.
But yeah I have no interest in a Spyrex flashwagon.

I JUST SAID WHY MY HEART WASN'T HERE

FUCKIN SCUM KEPT ME OUT OF THE MISSION

BROSCUMSPY KEPT ME OFF IT AND THEN MISLYNCH ME THE NEXT DAY?

WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME

Why would you care about being on the mission anyway?
It succeeded.

[Llamarble]

CES is fucking town, it pains me to admit it, but he would try to use me as scum. He just has forgotten how I Work

This flip I don't really see from Fatescum.
FINE.
VOTE: Kanyeknowsbest

FATE IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY TOWN THEN YOU NEED TO RETHINK THIS GAME BECAUSE YOU ARE SPECTACULARLY WRONG ABOUT ME AND PROBABLY WRONG ABOUT SPYREX AND BASICALLY EVERYTHING ELSE.

[Llamarble]

If Fate was ever actually at L-1 I might've hammered just to spite him. Luckily, I'm not that destructive. (SEE, FATE? I LOOK OUT FOR YOU, AND WHAT DO YOU GIVE ME IN RETURN? HUH? HUH?!?!)

On the plus, yay Faterage. On the minus, I can't tell if it's scum desperation or just Fate being Fate.

If you want to help me not flip my read on you constantly, stop saying things that make it sound like you're a commentator instead of a participant who, you know, ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT LYNCHING SCUM. What is this 'vote me or vote Kanye' garbage. Urgh.

@Darox:
What I am doing, rather obviously, is having difficulty making up my mind. I don't want to lynch outside Fate HC Kanye though because that was what I came out with on my deepest readthrough. I've had about 728 different lynches I could have forced through by now though, if I was scum like you still IDIOTICALLY seem to think I am, so I'm not sure what you think I'm evilly trying to accomplish.


Why would anyone post something like:
*push for VM lynch ladi dadi*

[Llamarble]

I think townies are more likely to decide they were wrong about something while thinking about the game later.
It's also just hard to abandon a good possible mislynch as scum.
Fate can still be scum, but this is definitely an 'eh yuck maybe he will flip town' for me.

[Llamarble]

Fate you are not this stupid.
VOTE: Fate
If you're actually town you've lost some of the respect I have for you.

STOP BEING A MORON != appeasement.

I think that CES may be mafia. He also may not be mafia.
I have made arguments for both of these possibilities as I considered them.
I am not going to 100% assume one or the other while trying to read everybody else.
And whether CES is scum or town, rethinking a read is something town do more often than scum.
But yeah, CES' 1101 is reasonable.

Kanye wagon is just an easy bullshit mislynch after he saw how shitty he would look if he forced this Fate one through.

This is entirely unreasonable. I'm not going to switch wagons 87 times to avoid responsibility.
That would be a laughably large amount of effort for an unimportant objective.
All I care about as scum is making mislynches happen, and then if I come under fire I rely on my ability to win logicwarz / engineer a lynch on somebody else. I'm not as good at scum as I am at town, but that's how I have played it in the past. I'm not going to derail like 5 of my own perfectly good wagons particularly given that leading the lynch for a day creates proactivity & 'why are you still alive' cred and creates the possibility of a lynch I actually don't want happening.
There is practically no way I am getting lynched this game; I have so many towntells at this point it is kind of disgusting.
So if this is my absolute scum masterwork game I'm not going to be worried about looking bad for who I lynch, I'm just going to lynch people who could be annoying. Lynchees get way less listened to than NKed players who don't get listened to much anyway.

Fate you have joined Bgg as the only two people I've ever thought "he probably should die for the good of town's winning odds even if he's town." Now I don't really believe that because mislynches are the worst thing, but I thought it, and that should mean something. I guess it won't really hurt my respect for you if you flip town because I do still think you're pretty awesome, but DAMN if you're town this has not been a good game for you. Well unless Spyrex is scum, in which case your only real crime is horribad tunneling on me, but yeah we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[Llamarble]

I feel like we're back to where we were just after I replaced in.

There is practically no way I am getting lynched this game; I have so many towntells at this point it is kind of disgusting.

LOOK AT THIS COCKY ATTITUDE

LOOK AT MARBLE'S SCUMMY SELF

LOOK AT THE FESTERING OPPORTUNISM ON FATE'S WAGON

marble and spyrex for scum team in 2012

1. I am much more confident as town.
2. How is it opportunism if the Kanye lynch was already agreeable to me, which it obviously was considering I basically made it happen?
3. How come you have barely been involved today?

The amount of oil oozing from Llmarble as he yet again joins my wagon should make SpyreX's baby cry.

So now I, as scum, who hypothetically FINALLY appeased you to get off my wagon, and had a wagon on SpyreX (MattP+me+my posse=wagon), switched to a vote on YOU to provoke you further?

Nah.

If there isn't one scum between you piled of slime I'll take a well deserved break for being bad.

If it was you vs Spyrex my vote was obviously already going to be on you, so there isn't any incentive not to continue attacking me.

[Llamarble]

1. I am much more confident as town.
2. How is it opportunism if the Kanye lynch was already agreeable to me, which it obviously was considering I basically made it happen?
3. How come you have barely been involved today?

1- oh, okay self meta that makes you town

2- your reads have been so far all over the map that you've expressed agreement to lynch pretty much anyone at various states of the game

1. Self meta that makes your accusation garbage. You said I was scummy for being overconfident, but me being extremely confident in my ability not to get lynched is simply how I feel when I'm town.

2. Well this doesn't address my #2 at all, and I have said that I currently want a Fate lynch or a Kanye lynch and have had difficulty making up my mind between them. Once I got to Fate HC Kanye Implosion I have been pretty stable, honestly, with difficulty figuring out who's the best lynch among them. Also YOU NEED TO READ MY META because I have been mislynched twice since I was a newbie. Once because I got roleblocked and scum nokilled, and once because YOU AND DAROX WERE IDIOTS AND FATE WAS SCUM AND I WAS PLAYING IN THE SAME COLOSSALLY ACTIVE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO SCUM ARE AND MAKE THE BEST LYNCH HAPPEN EVERY DAY MANNER AS I AM HERE. YOU'RE BEING IMBECILIC IN EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER YOU WERE LAST TIME. The difference between my scummeta and my townmeta is BLATANT, which is why I find Fate attacking me so bad. Go reread Nomination mafia. Go read Bedtime Stories. Go read any recent game where I have been town. Then go read any game where I've been scum. My townmeta and scummeta are different to an absurd truthtell level, and when I tell you that I am obvtown this game, I absolutely mean it. I. Can. Not. Fake. My. Massposting. Higheffort. Townmeta. As. Scum. Closest I came was Consulmaker and even there I couldn't keep it up after the first couple days of the game.

[Llamarble]

I called Spyrex scum IN POST 29. *personal attacks censored*
And then I did not like his lack of contribution to the thread.
But yes, when I BASICALLY PICKED EVERYBODY WHO WENT ON YESTERDAY'S SUCCESSFUL MISSION, I by then thought Spyrex was town.

[Llamarble]

BBmolla
SpyreX
kuribo
Darox
MattP

^These people are town town town and should be on the mission.

Peeps be making me change my mind about llamarble.

I think Fate should be on the mission BUT I WONT SAY WHY

No non-atrocious arguments have been made against me, so I am curious what your reasoning is.
You need to explain your Fate townread.

[Llamarble]

LOOK HOW HE FUCKING SPREADS HIS SHIT ALL OVER THE PLACE LIKE SOME DEMENTIA PATIENT

I cannot describe how strong of a towntell Schizophrenic reads are for me when I don't feel I've fully figured out the game.
Every behavior of mine you have disliked is something I FREAKING ALWAYS DO AS TOWN.
WHICH YOU SHOULD KNOW BECAUSE YOU MISLYNCHED ME IN SPITE OF ME HAVING LED BOTH SCUMLYNCHES THAT HAD HAPPENED IN NOMINATION MAFIA.

[Llamarble]

BBmolla
SpyreX
kuribo
Darox
MattP

^These people are town town town and should be on the mission.

Peeps be making me change my mind about llamarble.

I think Fate should be on the mission BUT I WONT SAY WHY

I don't get why you would say you're confident Fate is town, then ask me to go get evidence against Fate.
Wouldn't that be a waste of my time?

[Llamarble]

Hey gaiz. If we can't come to a decision, how about we vote VM? Llama, you've said Fate today, VM tomorrow (that was you right?). If this is the case, why not VM now?

That was CES not me. CES regards Fate as more likely to be scum than voided, as do I.
I'm not interested in a Voided lynch for today.
He's not in my TOWN pile, but he's also not in my NEEDS TO DIE pile.
I want to lynch from my NEEDS TO DIE pile, which at the moment only contains Fate and Kanye with CES possible.

As for 'dancing' on Spyrex, my actions toward him have been:
Found him likely to be scum early on, then by post 298 read him as town and that read has been stable since.
I can see zero reason why I would make post 333 at a buddy.
Calling that dancing around his alignment all thread is utter garbage, much like EVERYTHING ELSE Fate has been posting.

Voided in case you've forgotten we get plurality lynches, which means that whoever has the most votes at the end of the day dies.
That being said, we should be cohesive enough to make sure nothing dumb happens like a lynch of somebody other than Fate or Kanye.

[Llamarble]

Oh hey look Fate totally changed direction and put his vote on the wagon that offered by far the best chance of somebody other than him dying. It might even work.

There sure are a lot of lurkers considering how intense the game is right now / the impending deadline.
The voided wagon is mostly composed of these lurky sketchy people where scum live.
Fate was one of them too until he got run up and actually got involved in order to try and survive.
I think now is a good time to point out again that ALMOST ALL OF FATE'S READS CAME FROM WHEN HE SELF-ADMITTEDLY HADN'T READ THE GAME. He has offered up an awful lot of yowling for somebody who isn't basing his opinions on anything.

I'm pretty sure I constantly appeal to my desire to maintain a record of not getting mislynched often when I'm scum.
Maybe I do that as town too, but yeah you people need to not be fooled by Fate ATE.
I don't really care whether it's plurality or not, but considering that was rather obviously already the direction we were headed in Fate's only reason to say that stuff is in the hope it will help him survive.

Kuribo pretty much thinks Fate is town / I'm scum because Kuribo doesn't like the way I play as town.
That's the reason I got mislynched in Nomination mafia and he CLEARLY hasn't learned anything from that game.

Darox basically always votes for town.
I've never seen him actually be useful to town in any of the games we've played together.
He may actually just be scum this game though.

you.

The people who :do: think we can read Fate / have had success reading him in the past are all voting Fate.
What do you think that means?

[Llamarble]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VoidedMafia

It's not that I can read you as town, I just can't read you.

I do think the wagon on you blows.

Meant to quote that.

[Llamarble]

Why did we ever decide not to kill this again?
That was probably my fault. Bleh.

It's not that I :don't: act like this as scum. It's that I :CAN'T: act like this, despite having tried hard several times.
So no, I am not going to stop saying that I am obvtown because finding me scummy this game is simply WRONG if you've done ANY HOMEWORK AT ALL. And my being supertown this game is by no means just meta. The only element of it that is meta is that I haven't managed to achieve being ridiculously high-effort-protown as scum. I have put more effort into solving this game than anyone, am town because I got a power as a result of the mission, am town because there was no sabotage, am town because CES rolecleared me of taking any actions D1 or N1, am town because I have had MANY opportunities this game to just drive a wagon to lynch and chose to instead push a different one, am town because I have repeatedly stated my obvtownness in spite of it clearly causing you / Spyrex / others to want to lynch me because I just plain find it disgusting that anybody who actually is town could have a scumread on me, am town because of 873 individual towntells which I will go through in great detail if I actually get wagoned.

[Llamarble]

I really don't like that you disappeared right after the wagon moved.
The fact that you have a few posts elsewhere since then added to that.

[Llamarble]

Voided / Fate being the wagons isn't bad.
At least Voided isn't clearly town. But he has been voting with me, which meant he was contributing positively.
Fate is eminently the better lynch of the two.

[Llamarble]

VM you should claim.

[Llamarble]

I'll do some more in depth analysis tomorrow, but I'll break it down now for later use:

Llamarble
CES
implosion
kanyeknowsbest
vijay2vansandani
BBmolla
SpyreX
kuribo
Darox
MattP
The Mini-Librarian Voided Mafia
Fate

Fucks that think I'm scum/willing to lynch me:
Llmarble
CES
Implosion
VoidedMafia
SPYREX

That's 5 people

People who can read me as town:
MattP
Kuribo
Vijay (50/50)
Kanye
Darox
BBmolla


That's 6 people.

I honestly don't see how a lynch on me good pan out other than shit compromising. The majority of this game thinks I"m town.


The minority contain the scum. Strongarming a Fate mislynch here is optimal play given my lack of fucks/time for this game.

Also of the people who are likely scum on my potential wagon:
Llmarble -"Unlynchable" (mission)
CES-Likely wrongtown
Implosion-"Unlynchable" (role related info start of day?)
VoidedMafia- I'm actually taking VM off my town list. His tunneling on me is completely unreasonable. AND given the fact that the SECOND and Elmo counter-wagon came up, the entire wagon dove for it STRONGLY points toward VM scum. Add this to the fact that his wagon DIDNT spring up again D2 (aka the wagon at first was scum bussing, then scum didn't want to bus today and have been driving the town around)
SPYREX-"Unlynchable" (Mission)

Unvote:
Vote: VoidedMafia

I'm obviously not going to be able to break apart the Marble/SpyreX scumblock today, but in time it will become more and more obvious to the remaining townies.

I will compromise on VM today.

This is such a bad post.
He counts up who is interested in voting him / other people, and then he puts his vote on the wagon other than himself that is most likely to succeed irrespective of his prior reads. This is pure, first principles scummotive.

[Llamarble]

VoidedMafia- I'm actually taking VM off my town list. His tunneling on me is completely unreasonable. AND given the fact that the SECOND and Elmo counter-wagon came up, the entire wagon dove for it STRONGLY points toward VM scum. Add this to the fact that his wagon DIDNT spring up again D2 (aka the wagon at first was scum bussing, then scum didn't want to bus today and have been driving the town around)

I said almost word for word the same thing earlier.
Neither Spyrex nor I fit into the 'left his wagon for Elmo wagon late D1 and didn't return D2' category.
Who are these mysterious bussing than leaving folks?
Actually that describes Fate himself better than it describes any other player in this game.

[Llamarble]

I would like to hear the claims to help me / everyone else figure out which lynch is better.
It's close enough that with 7 hours left we may as well hear both, but meh.

VM has certainly done Eccentric Things, heh.
"Elmo beiing a weaker player only explains the ease of the wagon shift not WHY. The why is explained by you being scum and your buddies glad to shift off you."
Well your earlier opinion was:

Elmo being town didn't magically make the original wagon on VM viable

It just made it more clear that VM is town if anything because scum were all too happy to go

OH WE GET A FREE ELMO MISLYNCH NOW

AND

WE CAN SAVE VM MISLYNNCH FOR TOMORROW?

2GUD4US

I'm fine with changing of the mind.
But here it just looks like you changed your mind for the sake of convenience.
The whole scum bussed voided and then didn't want to follow up on D2 argument is bogus from you because you and people you have townreads on are like the only group falling into that category.

Meh, soon somebody or another will flip and this game will get less confusing.
And if Fate actually is town, which certainly isn't inconceivable, Voided scum would make the votes make sense.

[Llamarble]

53 minutes until this day mercifully ends.
I am staggered by the degree to which Kuribo / Darox failed to learn from Nomination mafia.
I'm literally being accused of exactly the same things I got accused of there, where I amazingly flipped town despite having caused the lynches on 2 of the 3 scum.

Hopefully Voided flips scum.

[Llamarble]

Trust: MattP

Trust: BBmolla

Trust: Kuribo

VOTE: Fate

Participated enough to be awesome and town.

CAUSE I AM SO OBVTOWN YOOOOOoOOOoOoOoOoo

Ehh Fate's probably scum but I just cant bring myself to hate him

Yea matt VM is probably town. Drunk on cheese, but town.

I'm a man full of eccentricities <_<.

Spyrex: What bipolar posts?

Jesus

FATE I SWEAR IF YOU ARE PLAYING ME

Unvote, Vote: VM

Explain how you aren't scum with Fate, cause that seems unlikely to me right now.

[Llamarble]

Well okay Spyrex, that is a reason. Kind of, assuming nobody else did.
Because mission size going down is a pretty solid collective prize.
It also means we're perfectly fine lynching from on the mission today if we want to.

I'm just going to collect together points that I have made against Fate, because I don't think people read my posts as much as I would like them to. Also BBMolla specifically asked for it.

Fate / Kuribo aren't living up to expectations.
I find it unusual that neither of them are louder in a game that could use some loudness.
Fate is especially lurk coasty and not getting much attention for it, which is usually a good scumsign.

I'm down for either a LL or Vihjay lynch whichever one's more viable

Assuming I am LL, I find this unlikely from Fatetown.
He has a very good track record of reading me correctly when I'm town, and I imagine he would want to actually read me rather than vote me over my hello-lets-get-this-moving-posts.

Fate-
This townlist seems pretty awful to me. HC looks like a good bet to be scum, Implosion could easily be scum, And Fate / Spyspy haven't towned at all yet either.

no idea why I quoted that was gonna say something but then saw a reminder of GreyICE's horrible rule set.

HC is town Implosion is town

Vote: Elmo

ALL TOWN MISSIONZ
Fate
SpyreX
HC
Implosion

That, his vote on me, his 'I am not going to care about D1' and his not being AWESOMEFATE all bother me.

Yeah Marble's scum. Plenty of scum on the big wagons trying to refuse to bus.

Marble is playing the ole "IMMA WORKHOUSE 6 TIMES I READ DIS THREAD BEFO I MAKE MAH READZ"
"I POST MORE THAN THE LOT OF YOU IM VALUABLE TO DIS TOWN"

"ILL KEEP MAKNG POSTS ABOUT HOW HARD IM WORKING RATHER THAN POSTS THAT CONTAIN ANY OF SAID WORK AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICES"

yeah
die scum die

YEAH GEE I REALLY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE.
OH WAIT WAY MORE THAN YOU? I THINK SO.

I'm down for either a LL or Vihjay lynch whichever one's more viable

Fate town would MAKE one of them viable, and Fate town would CARE between two options.

There's a problem when I have no idea who the popular "lets fucking ill it" target of the day is.

Just gonna sit here and wait for mah mission to reap all the reads

You aren't a skip participation D1 player.

Yeah Marble's scum. Plenty of scum on the big wagons trying to refuse to bus.

Marble is playing the ole "IMMA WORKHOUSE 6 TIMES I READ DIS THREAD BEFO I MAKE MAH READZ"
"I POST MORE THAN THE LOT OF YOU IM VALUABLE TO DIS TOWN"

"ILL KEEP MAKNG POSTS ABOUT HOW HARD IM WORKING RATHER THAN POSTS THAT CONTAIN ANY OF SAID WORK AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICES"

yeah
die scum die

This is just incorrect and you should know that.
Except for the I post a lot and am valuable thing, which is indeed a property I have.
Fate/Kuribo/Spyrex were all sitting around not acting like normal / trying to force scum to die but instead waiting for one of the viable lynches (most of which were on pretty clear town) to happen. THAT IS SUSPICIOUS.

Fate, Kuribo, Darox, Implosion should not have as many trust tokens as they do because all of them are pretty suspicious. Darox makes lists / puts in effort as scum and especially is incentivized to do that by the trust mechanic.
And the sketchy people are all trusting each other and making each other be on the mission, which certainly makes sense for scum to do especially if they are excited about their team as any team with at least two of those people would be.

HC is town Implosion is town

Vote: Elmo

ALL TOWN MISSIONZ
Fate
SpyreX
HC
Implosion

Trust SpyreX

Oh sick I'm a double voter, sweet

Bbmolla is a double voter

This is probably one of the most poinltess posts I've ever seen

Trust: Darox

How come no trust tokens for HC or Implosion?

If there are less than 2 scum in Fate Kanye HC voided I will be surprised indeed.
Fate is reminding me a lot of Fatescum from Nomination Mafia.
Fatetown knows the difference between obvtown me and scum me.

Yeah its D2 scum so you still parroting around this "WELL LOLMETA TOWNFATE CAN READ ME ERGO SCUMFATE NAO OMGUS" stance and not actually having any REAL points on me is going to bite you in the ass sooner or LATER

I hope SOONER but with this derpfuck town a man can only dream so much

1. I have stated a NUMBER of important reasons I find it likely you're scum this game.
2. "WELL LOLMETA TOWNFATE CAN READ ME ERGO SCUMFATE NAO OMGUS" is a REAL argument.
When Fate suddenly turned on me in Nomination mafia, I had a feeling of WTF this makes NO SENSE from Fate which dealt a big blow to my townread on him. He was scum that game. When I've been town and played in exactly the same massposting obvtown manner as I've played here (I have never succeeded in playing like I've played here as scum; my townmeta really is just blatantly different from my scummeta), Fate has fakeclaimed masons with me TWICE to keep me from being lynched, once in spite of role information suggesting I was scum.

Three lurkers and the guy who suspects you.

What a bastion of pro-town stances you are marble.

There are like 5 non lurkers in this town, and two of them are on my scumlist, so this is complete trash. Also I am pretty sure I've attacked you since before you attacked me. You've been tunneling me all game despite the fact that I am now rolemechanical-town in addition to strategicplay-town in addition to protown-effort town in addition to attitude-town.

As for you trying to take advantage of me saying my vote on HC was role-powered:

My vote on HC is role related, btw.

Lol NOPE.

You lock yourself into a claim right fuckign NOW so there's no "whoops tehee" later.

Marble says "oh well it was just a HUNCH ROLE RLATED NOT GUARANTEED GUIZ /FAKECLAIM"

He's done nothing thats why everyone would go OH YOU when Marblegoes "WALP SORRY HC was just SOOOOOOOO USELESS i HAD to."

Yeah

fuck that

I WANT AT LEAST CLARIFICATION OF A HANDS DOWN NO BULLSHIT 1v1 BY MARBLE NO BACKSIES

SINCE I KNOIW HIS SCUMASS WONT CLARIFY HIS ROLE CUZ

"LOLFATESCUM BE ROLEFISHIN YO:"

Your default assumption was that I was lying and trying to mislynch HC. IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT I WOULD DO THAT / THAT YOU WOULD ASSUME THAT WITHOUT SOME KIND OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITUATION. The obvious reaction was the reaction everybody else had, which was 'ok lets vote HC and see.' Your reaction reminds me a lot of my scumplay in Outwitted. I thought you-town was lying so I decided to take advantage of that by proving how implausible your claim was to Spyrex. And I actually thought I was telling the truth so I was able to be convincing. I can't even rule you out as scumbuddies with HC because the exact situation where Seraphim claimed a guilty on GreyICE (my buddy) and I thought he was lying felt a lot like this.

Behind. Will catch up ASAP.

You're posting a lot more in other games than this one.
Grrr.

My first pass rereading all my lynch candidates failed to produce a favorite. Bleh.

"I still can't actuallycome up with good reasons as to why any of my reads are scum"

mmmmmmmmmm

post above that is just horseshit used to justify his scumplay in this game.

Also plenty of "WELL I SAID IT FRIST SO I CAN NEVER BE SCUMZ"

Like many things Fate has said this game, this post is disgustingly stupidly obviously wrong.
I have given more and better reasons for more reads INCLUDING THESE ONES than Fate has to an extent that is laughable.
This particular post did not contain reasons because I didn't come to a decision, and it is not worth my time to go through the reasons this round of re-ISOing my scum candidates didn't produce a strong #1 choice. Why in the %#$&8 would you expect anything different?

WAT

WAAAAAAAAAAAAT

A CES

THAT CANT

READ ME

AUTO SCUM

VOTE: CES

You sure seemed to not like it when I used exactly the same argument against you.

As for Fate's scumminess this page, he isn't doing exactly the same thing he's done in a particular previous game, it's just he's capsing out Fatefakeable stuff in a way that feels like "I SHOULD POST SOME RAGEY THINGS AND TRY TO MAKE MY WAGON GO ELSEWHERE."

I JUST SAID WHY MY HEART WASN'T HERE

FUCKIN SCUM KEPT ME OUT OF THE MISSION

BROSCUMSPY KEPT ME OFF IT AND THEN MISLYNCH ME THE NEXT DAY?

WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CARE ABOUT THIS GAME

Why would you care about being on the mission anyway?
It succeeded.

Fate you are not this stupid.
VOTE: Fate

STOP BEING A MORON != appeasement.

I think that CES may be mafia. He also may not be mafia.
I have made arguments for both of these possibilities as I considered them.
I am not going to 100% assume one or the other while trying to read everybody else.

Kanye wagon is just an easy bullshit mislynch after he saw how shitty he would look if he forced this Fate one through.

This is entirely unreasonable. I'm not going to switch wagons 87 times to avoid responsibility.
That would be a laughably large amount of effort for an unimportant objective.

I'll do some more in depth analysis tomorrow, but I'll break it down now for later use:

Llamarble
CES
implosion
kanyeknowsbest
vijay2vansandani
BBmolla
SpyreX
kuribo
Darox
MattP
The Mini-Librarian Voided Mafia
Fate

Fucks that think I'm scum/willing to lynch me:
Llmarble
CES
Implosion
VoidedMafia
SPYREX

That's 5 people

People who can read me as town:
MattP
Kuribo
Vijay (50/50)
Kanye
Darox
BBmolla


That's 6 people.

I honestly don't see how a lynch on me good pan out other than shit compromising. The majority of this game thinks I"m town.


The minority contain the scum. Strongarming a Fate mislynch here is optimal play given my lack of fucks/time for this game.

Also of the people who are likely scum on my potential wagon:
Llmarble -"Unlynchable" (mission)
CES-Likely wrongtown
Implosion-"Unlynchable" (role related info start of day?)
VoidedMafia- I'm actually taking VM off my town list. His tunneling on me is completely unreasonable. AND given the fact that the SECOND and Elmo counter-wagon came up, the entire wagon dove for it STRONGLY points toward VM scum. Add this to the fact that his wagon DIDNT spring up again D2 (aka the wagon at first was scum bussing, then scum didn't want to bus today and have been driving the town around)
SPYREX-"Unlynchable" (Mission)

Unvote:
Vote: VoidedMafia

I'm obviously not going to be able to break apart the Marble/SpyreX scumblock today, but in time it will become more and more obvious to the remaining townies.

I will compromise on VM today.

This is such a bad post.
He counts up who is interested in voting him / other people, and then he puts his vote on the wagon other than himself that is most likely to succeed irrespective of his prior reads. This is pure, first principles scummotive.

VoidedMafia- I'm actually taking VM off my town list. His tunneling on me is completely unreasonable. AND given the fact that the SECOND and Elmo counter-wagon came up, the entire wagon dove for it STRONGLY points toward VM scum. Add this to the fact that his wagon DIDNT spring up again D2 (aka the wagon at first was scum bussing, then scum didn't want to bus today and have been driving the town around)

I said almost word for word the same thing earlier.
Neither Spyrex nor I fit into the 'left his wagon for Elmo wagon late D1 and didn't return D2' category.
Who are these mysterious bussing than leaving folks?
Actually that describes Fate himself better than it describes any other player in this game.

"Elmo beiing a weaker player only explains the ease of the wagon shift not WHY. The why is explained by you being scum and your buddies glad to shift off you."
Well your earlier opinion was:

Elmo being town didn't magically make the original wagon on VM viable

It just made it more clear that VM is town if anything because scum were all too happy to go

OH WE GET A FREE ELMO MISLYNCH NOW

AND

WE CAN SAVE VM MISLYNNCH FOR TOMORROW?

2GUD4US

I'm fine with changing of the mind.
But here it just looks like you changed your mind for the sake of convenience.
The whole scum bussed voided and then didn't want to follow up on D2 argument is bogus from you because you and people you have townreads on are like the only group falling into that category.

[Llamarble]

You know Spyrex and I both know you like to claim scum as both alignments.

[Llamarble]

Haha Darox, are you regretting letting the mission succeed?

Considering we just got a whole extra lynch and apparently some powers as well, I remain inclined to not lynch mission people.
But Spyrex's play yesterday was just AWFUL. "I don't care at all who we lynch blah blah" "Fate is probably scum" "Voided is probably town" -> "Vote Voided."
Almost the whole Voided wagon was voting voided because he wasn't Fate and Vijay was tunneled on him so there was a vote to work with.
Spyrex's claim might make him townier though. Though considering the other benefit we got I'm not sure I believe in megaroles coming out of the same stuff. We will see.

Regardless, this:

no fucking way does SpyreX town go all "lololololol fate claimed scum lolololol"

Vote: SpyreX

KURIBO AND DAROX SOLIDARITY ON THIS ONE

Was clearly synthesized from purest quintessence of dumb.
Note the complete lack of any statement from Spyrex to the effect of 'lolololollolol Fate claimed scum lololol."
I don't think anybody is voting Fate for claiming scum in particular.
Oh I already said that?

VOTE: FATE

Trust: BBmolla
Trust: Llamamarble
Trust: CES

CES can still very much be scum, especially if Fate isn't.
Him Spyrex Kanye would be a very reasonable scumteam. Spyrex would totally nosabotage with 1 missionscum for the wifom.
We are going to make the mission out of a subset of the people who went on last night's mission that bought us an additional day and lots of powers.

[Llamarble]

So what changed between

Yea voided isnt flipping scum

Not enough time

Hate you all

Unvote,vote: voided

And

So vijay town and implosion town

Unvote, Vote: VM

Then he proceeds to not care AT ALL who gets lynched yesterday off the wagon:

Of the outside I'm vijaay or HC

I could lynch kayne

<something about Fate being scum I'm not going to look back for again>

Yea matt VM is probably town. Drunk on cheese, but town.

Unvote, Vote: VM

VM was the ONLY LYNCH OPTION you were calling town. And then you voted him.
After saying Fate was probably scum. And now you are voting Fate today.
What.



DONT LYNCH BECAUSE OMGWTF the people in other categories
BBM, MattP, me, Vijay, Implosion

TURBODERPS
Kuribo
Darox

BACKUP SCUM:
CES

SCUM
Fate
Spyrex
Kanye

Fate and Spyrex are, like, TRANSPARENTLY not trying to make town win.

[Llamarble]

Although.

Llamarble, are you at all partial to the argument that I'm town due to me starting the game with a power that is unambiguously pro-town?

It is basically a rolecop power though.
I guess without a nightkill that becomes less useful to scum, but you'll have to explain to me what is unambiguously pro town about it.


20 minutes elapsed between Fate's scumclaim and threadlock, so trying to pretend I was avoiding posting after that (why would that even be something I would do as scum?) is silly. I was in the middle of posting something that I have zero recollection of when the thread locked.

And yes Kuribo, I have seen that stuff from Fate many times, which is why I didn't even bother mentioning it other than to say he does it as both alignments.

1132 isn't too bad of a post; in your position assuming prior scumreads on me / Spyrex I might think the same thing. Although from my position as scum I would probably be expecting people to think that, so w/e. I don't think Darox is that obviously town, but yeah he definitely is in the derps category rather than the 'lynch these people' category.

[Llamarble]

Happy Birthday Fate.

[Llamarble]

I didn't intend that in a gloating way or anything like that.

[Llamarble]

"Lol he claimed scum" just isn't part of this lynch, and the fact that you keep pretending it is and using it as an excuse explains why you did it better than 'I wanted a voided scumflip to make me look good.'

How about responding to :anything: in 1114?

CES a role identifier is useful for directing anything that messes with town roles, and if scum don't have an NK it's likely they have something that does that.

[Llamarble]

the thing is, not sabotaging on the mission is so fucking brilliant that if that's what's happening, it's got Spyspy's fingerprints all over it

Whee another thing I already said.

For the record, Llamarblescum is a creature of simple optimization who generally doesn't bus, nightkills the player he finds most likely to help him win, wouldn't double up numbers in a PYP, and would absolutely sabotage missions in a game where the point is that succeeding in missions helps town win and failing gives powers to scum. You can add that to the giant pile of reasons I am town.

[Llamarble]

Is 1114 that wall of quotes? Cuz then lolno most of that is just bullshit d1 stuff and WOE AS ME FATE ALWAYS READS ME RIGHT IF HE DOESN'T HE SCUM, which is an embarassing oversimplified attempt at reading me

You made the exact same argument against CES. Is this why you took it back?
Calling ANY read of mine oversimplified is absurd.
I have put EASILY the most time and analytic depth into my reads of anyone in this game.

Anyway, I challenge you to find a single one of the posts I quoted that fails to make a solid point against you.



Kuribo stop being dumb. I want the one I find less likely to flip town to go first.
I'm not going to let us lynch another random peripheral person I don't have a scumread on.
You'd think being wrong about both lynches so far would make some of team Fateworship rethink their attitudes.

[Llamarble]

1158 sounds really scumlogicky, actually. YOU SHOULD THINK X is how scum think.
Especially when they're trying to tell you who to vote for out of your read-options.
I guess I have to reread Kuribo sometime soon.

I do have a scumread on Spyrex.
I said we're not lynching a random peripheral person, not that Spyrex belongs to that category.

[Llamarble]

Congratulations on your 3 completely worthless posts.

[Llamarble]

Sorry about that but your play has been very frustrating to me this game.

[Llamarble]

Mafia get trackers and such sometimes. It really isn't much of a stretch.
With all the funny prizes and stuff out there and the lack of NKs I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to just massclaim.

[Llamarble]

Well Kuribo I already responded to the post you made last time you said exactly the same horrible, feeble-minded, scummy thing.

Haha Fate, of course you would go and find the ONE THING out of maybe 15 or so you had already talked about to talk about again.
And no, your 'refutation' is garbage. You have stuck to your terrible read on me the whole game through. The fact that your reads didn't change at all when you supposedly did read the thread is awful too, btw. Your completely incorrect, tunneled, HORRIBLY supported read on me this game IS a scumtell.

The mission does not involve anything fancy that could help you generate reads.
It just happens, and if it wasn't sabotaged maybe you get a thing PMed to you at daystart. Other than the role I got N1, which I told you about, going on the mission provided me with zero additional information.

[Llamarble]

A playstyle, BY DEFINITION, cannot be scummy. You're also wrong about mine, but that isn't very important.

[Llamarble]

Yeah I'm fucking sick of this.

Any time he perceives a threat, Llamarble attacks them for being scum and starts posturing harder about how he's obvtown.
Spyrex is pretty bad for being his meatpuppet, but the real money is on Llamarble.

Unvote, Vote: Llamarble

However much you may want me to be scum, I'm just not.
I feel like half the people voting me are voting me because I annoyed them, which I could very easily not have done.
Ah well if you haven't figured out that I'm town by now I really can't help you.
I mean I will if I actually am in danger blah blah, but I'm planning on ignoring a lot more of the stupid.

[Llamarble]

Nah Fate's absolutely right. Add in obvtown and its always on the gun strokin backside.

BUT I digress.

In what universe are both Fate and I scum? Suuuure you can say I'm scum for not caring OR fate's scum for not caring but if you honestly think in the recesses of your mind that Fate and I together would have the master plan of HAY LETS NOT CARE TOGETHER wellllllllll.

Also Kuribo is still right and is probably town and he's still probably right about Darox being town. Fate and I need to do that thing we do so well and thelma and louise off the cliff BUT the simple fact is there's a whole mess of non entities and thats a bad thing (see implosions post above this).

Every time I see Fate capsing back and forth with somebody and it feels super insincere from both ends I suspect bussing.
I can see where you are coming from though.

I will come back to this game on Sunday with a clear mind and rethink EVERYTHING.

[Llamarble]

Spyrex vs Fate is a better idea.
At least that way even if we don't lynch the one I prefer there's a very solid chance of hitting scum.
I'm fine with not being on the mission provided the other 5 players are kept the same,
though obviously I would prefer to remove Spyrex from the mission and lynch Fate.

[Llamarble]

Meh Kanye is the one true obvscum.
Kanyelynch probably should have happened the other day when I could have made it happen. Bleh.
Fate, Spyrex, BBMolla, CES, Darox, Implosion could each conceivably flip town.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, if team FATE IS OBVTOWN YOU BASTARDS and team MARBLE IS OBVTOWN YOU NITWITS want to make a bipartisan compromise, I think I'd be good with a Kanye lynch.

Other than that though Fate is going to be stuck in my craw until he flips, and the chances he flips scum are solid. And the fact that we've had successful missions does make me less inclined to lynch onmission. Spyrex and CESreads will get a lot more out of Fate's flip than out of Kanye's.

[Llamarble]

Honestly, this is probably about how I would be treating Spyrex if I were scum with him, so I don't blame you for that particular thought Kuribo.
I'm not, though.

Kanye Fate CES Spyrex
are the people I find most suspicious.
I wish I knew all the prizes though, because people getting prizes is throwing off my reads since I initially assumed only town got them.
I can give good reasons why every single player is town except for Kanye, and even him I have minor misgivings about.
I am just not that confident in my reads this game. We badly need a scum to die so we can calibrate based on that.

[Llamarble]

1221 was an in-no-particular-order listing.
I disagree with you that my Spyrex case was my strongest anyway though.
Certainly HUGE doesn't describe it especially compared to my case on you, which you have for some reason continually pretended is based entirely on you misreading me.

Anyway, it is time for Fate to die.
I was starting to want to move things to Kanye but then Fate started talking again.

[Llamarble]

Your case on me is LOLWUTURREADONME AND apathy. And if iits anything MORE than that its complete horseshit because I KNOW those are the only two flaws in my play that could be used against me.

You see, I have this extremely high awareness of my own play and how it can be exploited. Its the reason I never get lynched as scum sans bullshit guilty or intimate readers (DGB, Spy, Ben, etc.) Its the reasons theres no way I'm scum here and no way in FUCK id be caught by the likes of MARBLE lol.

Ha. 'I am fully aware of everything I ever do that could get me caught as scum.' That is pretty arrogant.
I find it hard to believe somebody who yowls and loosecannons and does silly things as much as you do is very selfaware, but eh.
I'm disappointed you don't think I'm as good a reader as those other players you mentioned.

Nice to know you see your read on me as a flaw in your play though.

VOTE: Accelerate Fatelynch

[Llamarble]

I mean, if you say 'marble changing his reads a lot is scummy' when changing my reads a lot is something I do much more as town than as scum, what do you expect me to say?

It's not like I haven't given any reasons why I think reading me as scum is silly this game.
Anyway, hopefully Fate will flip scum and we won't have to worry about this anymore.

[Llamarble]

I win a lot as scum too (though yeah I make no claims to being as good of scum as you), and I catch myself doing attackable things all the time.
I wasn't arguing you don't plan at all, I was just saying I think sometimes you just :do: things. Certainly that's true of me.
And it is hard in general to stay aware of everything that it is reasonable to say about you.

If you're town then neither of us are having great games.
For the record I haven't spent the whole game tunneled on you; I've gone back and forth and run up other people and stuff.
I was wrong about you-scum in Nomination mafia up till it was too late. Other than that I haven't played a full game with youscum.
I have a good record of reading you correctly as town though, so if you flip scum today at midnight my overall track record on you is very good and if not it's mediocre. We'll see what happens.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, it's not very hard at all for scum to read somebody quickly, decide not to try and lynch them, and go 'yeah okay I agree he's town.'

[Llamarble]

Kuribo sent me a hilarious shoe phone message.

[Llamarble]

By the way Fate I am sorry and I will try to make it up to you by getting you a win.
Not a good game for either of us it is, I guess.
We have 5 (at best) lynches left to get rid of 3 scum.
I'm going to approach today with a clearer mind regardless of people who think I'm scum.

[Llamarble]

This game is hard.
Maybe people claiming some more stuff will help.

Meh. It's probably the scum's doing.

I was compromised. I have no clue what it means. I'm kinda guessing that it means that missions won't work if I'm on them, maybe? I was a little afraid that I might have been recruited or something, but this isn't a bastard game so etc.

It might be the equivalent of a nightkill. Although I really don't see myself as a likely nightkill candidate last night. If, by some chance in hell, there is a redirector who redirected someone to me last night... claiming might not be a bad idea.

Implosion is pretty scummy for basically not posting anything about behavioral reads on anybody ever, but this post would have been somewhat challenging to make up.

Spyrex has been pretty aimless and he called everyone scum except the player he ended up voting to lynch D2 and stuff. He's done a good job with tone though if he's scum. It's hard to fake aimlessness and sitting around for things to happen when you're usually a pretty incisive player.

Kanye still doesn't make me uncomfortable about lynching him.

CES works reasonably well as scum. I guess he could just have decided that I would be a good person to defend / have a townread on.
The 'my role only helps town thing' I still don't buy because we just don't have enough information about scums' capabilities.
He's playing a good scumgame if he's scum but that's true for pretty much anyone here at this point.

MattP I'm still townsold on. He's been thinking clearly, reading through the game trying to figure things out, flipped back to Kanyetown for a weak reason when Kanye would make a good mislynch (and I doubt he's a Kanyebuddy but if Kanye flips scum I'll recheck I suppose). I'm just not going to worry about him being scum for now.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Kanye

[Llamarble]

The 'my role only helps town thing' I still don't buy because we just don't have enough information about scums' capabilities.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence here, surely?

Maybe scum needed to sabotage a mission in order to gain powers that would benefit from knowing town PRs.
Scum usually gain some benefit from role information because that's how massclaim is prevented.
One of the reasons I'd like to hear some claims is to start working out exactly this kind of question though.

[Llamarble]

Ok, satisfied myself that Kuribo is town.
And I'm town, so the people left are:
Spyrex
Kanye
Darox
Vijay
BBMolla
CES
Implosion
That is a lot of people who feel like they can be scum; I'll start working through it soon.

[Llamarble]

Trust Kuribo, MattP

I was curious whether CES' trust on me yesterday didn't count for role reasons.

[Llamarble]

The mission size decreasing was really significant.
Dunno if anything else of real importance has happened because of them.

[Llamarble]

You seriously think I'm on a scumteam with CES?
In which case we invented a situation where both of us used the same information powerrole on each other, leaving BOTH OF US 100% COMPLETELY REAMED if anybody had role information contradicting that?
Not to mention I ran his slot up to almostlynch D2 and we just generally don't make any sense together as scum.

Me + CES should be one of the 'no, this is not reasonable' pairings for anybody who's paying attention.
Then again anybody paying any attention should see I'm town, but meh.