Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[AurorusVox]

Should Town pick letters without turning?

I don't think so. Yes, giving scum opportunities to snatch the letters they want is not ideal, but by not turning at least a few letters over, we'd be leaving the towns ability to use a good number of power roles almost entirely to chance.

The point is scum will see what town has. Townpoints for not realising this though.

But yes. There are situations where taking a random letter is okay for town.
Oh I can't remember what's been flipped already and cba to look back through to find out. Will wait for modpost before flipping.

---

Also, I would like to remind some that though we have quite an interesting setup we still can find scum through conventional methods. Don't get lost in the setup matrix and let scummy stuff slide. However, this early in the game I think discussing how we will use the setup is very important.

So is there nothing "scummy" for you to comment on at this point? I feel like your tone suggests you want to make a serious vote.

---

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

No. I hate it.

Take advantage of the strong town PRs to hit scum hard. Locking into letters (that people have had to CHOOSE) means that scum can't fakeclaim what letters they have later (i.e., if scum take a letter that is part of a scummy ability, we'll at least be tipped off a little. If they snatch and grab before seeing the letter, they have plausible deniability)

---

If it's any consolation, I actually think your entrance to the game was kinda townish, but we're not going to agree on anything theory-wise. Lets just leave it there. I'm happy to watch others rep my points or yours or whatever.

Yeah, I'm sorry I bit your head off.

As long as we can agree to disagree, I'm fine. I'm just not going to put up with another PranaDevil.

Also, I still think you're scum for what I outlined before. Entirely independent of our spat. Especially since this is feeling a lot like an appeasement.

Vote: Hoopla

Didn't you "hope" LLD was scum earlier? Why then is the entrance townish?

[AurorusVox]

If LLD has a J, she should consider herself lucky if she's scum. Though, considering that was literally the luck of the draw (or flip, in this case), it's null more than anything. Same for robo, though to a slightly lesser extent since his possibles aren't exactly as helpful to the scum (yes, there is the whole "keeping it from town" part, but still).

This is one reason for not following LLD's plan. See, now these two people are not responsible for the tiles they picked. I want people to have to take responsibility for those tiles.

Flip: A6

How do we determine who takes tiles? Do we just take whatever we feel like? Does the person who flips it get first pick? Do we try to request tiles and allow people to take them or deny them?

---

Also I was drunk last night and would like to retract my statement that it is okay for town players to take unknown tiles. This is the same problem as we have with LLD's plan that there is no responsibility being taken for the tiles on display. Before I reverse the statement though, there needs to be some debate on this issue. Here's how I see it.

If we don't allow people to take unflipped tiles, then certain players will have to take the duff tiles (through whatever means we decide). If we allow players to choose a tile, and we see someone go for a crap tile, as Amrun pointed out this is a pretty big signpost for scum. However, if we were to force people to "request" tiles in some way...well, that would mean that the "signposting" issue is gone. But I'm not sure how feasible this really is.

If we DO allow people to take unflipped tiles, we run the risk of letting scum luck onto helpful tiles as in LLD's plan, but they have no responsibility for it. Now, I'll have to look through the letter combos when I'm not hung over, but I seem to remember someone saying that there are certain letters that are more pro-scum and more pro-town. As the number of flipped-but-not-collected tiles goes up, the higher the chance that scum will stumble onto a tile they need - either through flips that have been left or through picking unflipped tiles. OTOH if there are letters that only benefit scum (again, I need to check this), then it seems to me that allowing players to pick unflipped tiles will mean that we can keep these "scum letters" exposed on the gameboard upon pain of lynching.

---

(P.S. mod is doing a beautiful job)

[AurorusVox]

Not fully caught up and there are things I want to respond to (MoI's post for one) but I would like to say that I've got my eye on the P at the moment. I'm going to go have a shower and look at a wedding venue (!!) so after that I'll read up on what I'm missing and get back atch'all.

Vote: Arugula

based on his plan post and the page of discussion afterwards~

[AurorusVox]

(i.e., if scum take a letter that is part of a scummy ability, we'll at least be tipped off a little. If they snatch and grab before seeing the letter, they have plausible deniability)

So LLD’s plan has netted her a Pro-Scum letter. What are your thoughts on that given the above?

My thoughts are she had no way of knowing she'd get the pro-scum letter and so she can't be blamed for that, but it reinforces my point that we shouldn't take before a we flip~

There's also the issue now that if scum have letter stealing capability they can snag it from LLD. Flip before you collect. Leave scummy letters on the board. I'd rather people took an invisible letter rather than a flipped scummy one.

Vote: Hoopla

Didn't you "hope" LLD was scum earlier? Why then is the entrance townish?

Straight out – are you simply concocting a reason to bandwagon for bandwagonning’s sake here?

No. I think it's a contradiction. If I wanted to BW I'd have placed my vote on VM, the leading wagon at the time.

Do you disagree with that logic?

(for reference, this is where you expounded upon taking unflipped tiles over useless ones)
I agree with the logic. There's no point in taking useless tiles as town. I think my concerns over taking unflipped tiles has lessened since I posted about forcing all players to only collect on flipped tiles.

Is it that hard to accept the fact I made an honest mistake in not realizing my plan was similar to IceGuy's?
Is it that hard to accept that after having my previous plan beaten to death, I was a little wary of posting another one simply because I didn't want to come off as incompetent?

These could both still come from scum. They are not towntells.

@DCL
When I posted my first plan, I didn't fully understand how the game worked, and I admit it is anti-town now. The reason for that little "qualifier" was genuinely that I was almost afraid of posting another plan because the last one was ripped apart and not good at all. I wasn't trying to put down the plan, I was just ready for backlash because of the backlash from the other one. I genuinely thought and still think my plan is pro-town.

Why did you post one then if you were "almost afraid"? Why not read the other plans carefully? Why do you have to be the ring leader?

[AurorusVox]

Letter Steal = LS [(A)

LS

: Target a player to steal the tiles they possess at the end of the Night. If two or more players target the same player with this ability, the action fails.]

Try harder.

You'd have been better to claim carelessness rather than saying you read it carefully and missed it~

And obv you wanna be a ringleader, or else you wouldn't mind following IG's plan.

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: whispersilk

"null at best" implies one or more of the three on the wagon other than amrun is a scumread of yours. Yet you have no vote placed. Stop posturing and keeping your options open, scumbag.

[AurorusVox]

Collect: A1

MoI; thoughts on Whispersilk slip?

[AurorusVox]

No but seriously. If there are two people who want the same letter it's a good idea to discuss who gets it. MoI had like two other back-up preferences so I figured he wouldn't mind me pinching his choice numero uno.

But I'd stick with "I would like <letter> but there are others I wouldn't mind" -- this way we don't give away what the second choices are. A nice way to do the good but not the bad.

---

@Whisper, "null at best" suggests you have a scumread -- it's not saying you don't have a townread. If you said "the rest are nullreads" I'd have had no problem with it.

[AurorusVox]

@Whisper, "null at best" suggests you have a scumread -- it's not saying you don't have a townread. If you said "the rest are nullreads" I'd have had no problem with it.

So you're voting for me because I said that 3/4 of Arugula's wagon is either a null or scum read, including yourself?

The fact I'm one of them doesn't matter. I'm voting you because you said that 3/4 of Arugula's wagon is either a null or scum read but you are currently not voting anyone. You claim to be looking to decide which one is scummiest but afaict you have made no moves to figure out which one that might be.

---

@MoI

I would like to say that I've got my eye on the P at the moment.

As for your other request, I'm not going to ISO people looking for something that isn't there.
If someone else wants a P, you find it and show it to me.

P.S. why do you say Whisper says that no one on the wagon is scummy and then ask him which of the waggoners is scum in the same post?

[AurorusVox]

Eh. What about popcorning an order for collects?

We have 3 decent wagons atm. Arugula and whisper are superior to hooplas though.

[AurorusVox]

In the future.

Ah I was reading on my phone and thought Hoopla was on 3 votes, not ICEguy. Not sure about his wagon. Yours and Argu's are decent (good), his is decent (sized) though.

[AurorusVox]

Your wagon is good because you're scum.
Popcorning is a way of controlling the picking process without making it too beuracratic.
And you were posturing by claiming people to be "at best null" but not following it up with a vote OR calling anyone scummy. That's pretty obvious considering it's the post I voted you for.

[AurorusVox]

No I can't because you're scum and this administration does not negotiate with terrorists.

Who do you THINK my scum reads are, bub?

[AurorusVox]

Voided how does whisper prove herself town? She calls 2minds out for misrepping but doesn't call them scum - look at the end of the post where she reveals she knows 2minds is town by pushing for actual scum hunting from them.

[AurorusVox]

Yawn~

[AurorusVox]

@whisperscum: Is 2minds stupid?

Um whut? You just finished telling 2for1 that out of his scum list Whisper was the most likely to be Town.

Now you turn around and vote Whisper (who you just said was most likely to be Town of the three) for “buddying” you?

You're not this stupid MoI. You're scum, aren't you? Scum with Whisper?

Damn, bro. Your distancing-vote earlier had me convinced for a while, though the hop off was a little suspicious. But you've given it away here now. Sadface.

[AurorusVox]

ICEGUY I THINK YOU'RE TOWN
DONT LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN

[AurorusVox]

ICEGuy is town because scum are pushing his lynch (Whiskers, MoI, You)

I ignored her questions because they're pointless distractions that won't lead to anything.
I'd answer her stupid questions if she was town for the sake of clarity. But she's just asking for asking.

I don't mind answering questions of scum (i.e. you). But I won't answer pointless ones that are aimed at distracting me and making Whiskers appear to be doing something.

[AurorusVox]

It's not a contradiction.

I'd answer stupid questions for town.
I'd answer non stupid questions of scum.

And yes.

[AurorusVox]

Now

you're

starting to ask stupid questions.

In recently completed CYOR mafia, me, Prana and Vijay all voted the same players all day long.
(The only reason the VCA won't show this is because Vijay had a voteless role D1)
But we played the "scum won't all be on the same player" card

[AurorusVox]

Whisper it detracts from my focus to have you constantly chirping about shit that I know you're only interested in for scummy motives. I could answer all of your questions right now if I wanted to. But what's the point? You won't change your mind about me since you already know I'm town and are faking having a scumread. Other players have plenty rest to judge me on, and your questions won't add anything. And to say I'm not trying to get you lynched is laughable when I've been pointing out your scumslips all day.

[AurorusVox]

Why the fuck aren't you voting me whisper?

[AurorusVox]

Shit, I thought I did after I unvoted. Thanks for pointing that out while completely ignoring last post directed at you. Again. It just makes you look more scummy.

VOTE: AurorusVox

Of course it does. Just keep telling yourself that.

[AurorusVox]

Robo: would you lynch Arugula over Whisper to stop a lynch on ICEguy going through?

[AurorusVox]

Unvote; Vote: Arugula

Very good.

[AurorusVox]

MoI, Robo never said Whisper was the most town of the three. DCLVX said Whisper was the most town of the three and Robo was questioning HIS logic using HIS reads. You trying to say they're Robo's reads when they clearly aren't is what's tipped me off to you being scum.

Putting this out here now because you might NK me

[AurorusVox]

@MoI, how is it a strike one when the meat of the point is correct, even if the name of the player he was talking with isn't?

[AurorusVox]

Arug.

Can you at least refer to who each quote is from VM.

[AurorusVox]

If you're going to use meta do it properly.

[AurorusVox]

@VM: When I read on my phone (more frequently nowadays) I'm not spending time cycling through links.

[AurorusVox]

@VM

>_>
<_<
<_>

---

@Whisper what game did we play together btw?

[AurorusVox]

Well there's your answer then.

[AurorusVox]

Why the play there is vastly different from the play here.
MANY ANSWERS.

[AurorusVox]

Arugulu try harder.

[AurorusVox]

Shut up you haven't done shit this game.

I've found all three scum.

[AurorusVox]

Let's [REDACT] that convo.

[AurorusVox]

Aru you're not flipping town.
If you do, then obv I find the scummz on your wagon~

[AurorusVox]

vote: arugula

Dat hammer.

[AurorusVox]

Well the fake hammer has at least served to strengthen the tie between whisper and arguala.

[AurorusVox]

I don't read md so...

I fail to see how pointing out a fake hammer helps town. Whisper could have waited to make her post. Instead she jumps in straight away. This is because she wants to look town. She wants to try to use anything she can against me. She also could've posted as a warning to her buddy that the hammer was fake (aegula scumflip thus implies no daytalk).

She hasn't even given adequate reason for why I'd fake hammer as scum. Saying I'd forgotten where my vote is is bull.

[AurorusVox]

There are proscum motivations to pointing it out.

[AurorusVox]

Lld vote aruguka please x

[AurorusVox]

Aruguka town would mean vijay scum imo.

[AurorusVox]

@moi, why does vijay scum preclude you and whisper being scum?

@hoops, its the vote for argu whilst calling me town tat makes me crinkle my nose at vijay

[AurorusVox]

flip: g6

Vote:whisper

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: MoI

[AurorusVox]

Actually yeah

Unvote; Vote: DCL

Terrible fucking start to the day.

I need more time to process ICEguy vs MoI - one of them is scum, MoI's last two posts have me wondering.

@VM, please explain more closely why I'm not voting Whiskers today - you're not dead, so why would the fact that Whiskers wouldn't kill you as scum make him any less likely to be scum?

@Vijay, uscumbro?

[AurorusVox]

Scum must be amongst the following:
[MoI/ICEguy] / DCL / Vijay / Whisper

Strong Town:
Robo is town and I actually read LLD as town this game~

WeakTown: Amrun, 2minds, VM.

[AurorusVox]

I want to put ICE in the strong town section...MoI inspired paranoia says no.

[AurorusVox]

Ice goes back to strong town.

Vijay, I'll look over when I'm not on my phone unless someone wants to summarise letters people took for me? Vijay needs to explain his voting yesterday.

Vm I know, strange right? I rarely agree with lld (i think she fooled me in defcon) but I found things she posted tickled me nicely in a gut town read sorta way. I can point to specifics when I'm back home with laptop access.

[AurorusVox]

Dcl because you're more obviously scum.

Vijay, explain your disgusting post about arigula and myslf yesterday.

[AurorusVox]

What setup spec do you want? CYOR was open, we figured out who had what roles, and made a plan. Being scum makes me the informed minority, thus giving me more information to work with. Here I'm the uninfomed minority, and apart from vms role speculations, I don't see what you want from me.

Do you want me to suggest what letters people should take? When I don't know their hand? And why would they listen to me? Am I meant to plan out night actions without knowing roles?

You say I can mislead with my setup spec. Yet you are suspicious that I'm not speculating.

This is far too stinky.

vote: vijay

Whisper, why did I think you were scum d1?

[AurorusVox]

MoI, I purposefully dropped Whisper after she voted me because I knew I could get Arugula up to the same number of votes as ICE. I did these because he was (and has since gone back to) a strong townread of mine who I want

ed

to keep alive.

Also fuck your condescension re: LLD. I've only got back to a laptop last night at something like 9pm, I've been teaching all day, and I come home to see you crying about why I think LLD is town...when she's not even in YOUR scumlist.

So many scum.

[AurorusVox]

You know who is really really town?

Robocopter.

You know who really really needs a bullet between their eyes?

MoI.

Some one get to that, if you will.

This is the major reason LLD is town.

[AurorusVox]

It's not much like scum LLD either though is it, MoI?

Don't forget I also had a scumread on Argucuckoo. Why wouldn't I want to see her lynched?

[AurorusVox]

So what does ICETown mean for your reads, MoI?

I think it reads like LLD Town. You don't, fine. But it certainly DOESN'T read like LLD scum. Since we know there are no third parties, I'll take my town read and your non-scum read of her to confirm that you're just chasing shit for giggles at this point.

[AurorusVox]

You douche VM. He's saying that's what MoI is saying about HIS reads.

CHRIST

---

In other news, who wants to lynch Vijay with me?

[AurorusVox]

Vijay I've already given my thoughts on plans yesterday. Continue being scum, though x

[AurorusVox]

Lol a Vijay-MoI-AV scumteam~

ICEguy scumflip makes me hurt inside. It would make Whisper more town. DCL could still be scum. Vijay I think is still capable of being scum. You'd potentially drop but I'd not put it past you to be his buddy~

And now for a more specific return: if ICEguy was town, what would your Whisper read be?

[AurorusVox]

Willing to lynch today:
Vijay
DCL
MoI

Wagon any of those players and you will have my support.
Whisper is on the backburner for now~

[AurorusVox]

I think all three of you are likely to be scum~

[AurorusVox]

Do you realise my vote has moved from MoI to you to Vijay, where it currently resides?
Why are you trying to make it look like I'm not voting for anyone?

[AurorusVox]

Yeah, MoI, because you're not voting DCL or Vijay whilst calling both scummy. Distancing but not bussing.

If IceGuy is town, and you'd still read Whisper as town, that would mean we'd have had three wagons D1 all on town (Hoopla, Aru, IceGuy, Whisper).
I find that IMMENSELY unlikely...don't you?

[AurorusVox]

Call.

Vote: DCL

I included Hoopla because she was a wagon and is proven town. I don't see why I should exclude her.

[AurorusVox]

I want collections before we hammer.
DCL not selfhammering is a towntell.

Unvote

I'm waiting on mod to see what tiles are available. We should wait for all the rest of the flips as well.

[AurorusVox]

Why are people still voting him when he could have self-hammered as scum?

Vote: MoI

[AurorusVox]

Do you think that WIFOM is worth letting people take an extra letter? Considering it looked hella likely he'd get hammered anyway since no one was unvoting after he went to L-1.

[AurorusVox]

Tbh there's a good chance of robo still being town. If you have a magical secret tell it looks like you're just whiteknighting, especially given iceguy was in line for a lynch (note to self: check iceguy wagon at time of gambit)

Tbh there's also a good chance Dcl is town. The arguments against him being town recently boil down to wifom. I dislike vm's vote to l-1 at a time when its clear that if Dcl is scum, putting him to l-1 is dangerous for town. His reply to me - that town want to collect first - doesn't mesh with him voting Dcl.

[AurorusVox]

Wait. Dcl why did you call robo second most likely to flip town of those voting for you if you'd run a gambit that caught him out?

[AurorusVox]

Vm do you have townreads on everyone on dcls wagon, and scumreads on everyone else?

[AurorusVox]

What specifically about his case do you want me to respond to?

[AurorusVox]

Is the side by side comparison in thread or does it require me to look this other game up?

[AurorusVox]

Vm: my point is you should care if Dcl can self hammer considering you have townreads who have not yet collected. You said people on the wagon had already collected as if that excused your scummy l-1 vote. But obv not.

[AurorusVox]

Ps moi on my phone so I can't check anything out but it sounds like ice is in the right above. So what if he's changed how he scumhunts? I know i have.

[AurorusVox]

collect: i4

Dcl's insistence that I had no reason to vote for him is irritating but alas he's town.

Now VM on the other hand

vote: voidedmafia

[AurorusVox]

collect: i4

Itt moi is caught in a lie.

Moi if you think I'm scum why isn't my apparent confirmation bias making you rethink your ice read?

Plus I explicitly said I wasn't checking because I was on my phone. Keep trying tho.

[AurorusVox]

Oh.
I thought you meant that IF I WAS SCUM, I would KNOW he was TOWN and would thus be CONFIRMATION BIASED.
Is that not what the term means?

PS I'm back on my laptop now. Link me to the offensive posts for side by side comparison.

[AurorusVox]

Okay. I see I made a mistake there. You still lied about me not collecting though D:<

@ICE, can you give an example

from this game

of MoI doing each of the things you claim he does in this post?

I note the difference, it is quite extreme. Do you have examples of ICE scum playing like he has here, though? Because, for one thing, almost a year has passed: if you want to argue he's scum on meta like that, you'd need a larger sample because (as I said before) my playstyle underwent a huge change some time ago and I'm sure I had people saying "OH HE MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE THIS ISN'T HOW HE PLAYED AS TOWN!" without bothering to check if it was how I played as scum; the conclusion could have been drawn that it was unlike ANY of my play and was therefore a playstyle shift rather than alignment-indicative. I think the same rigour needs to be applied here if you want to make a case from it.

[AurorusVox]

Whisper you never explained why I thought you were scum D1. Please do so now.

[AurorusVox]

No. I want it in YOUR words. Jeez.

[AurorusVox]

Wait. Dcl why did you call robo second most likely to flip town of those voting for you if you'd run a gambit that caught him out?

[AurorusVox]

Um
No DCL
I was referring to YOUR start.

Vote: Vijay

Here's a lynch we can all agree on.

[AurorusVox]

Inb4 iceguy townflip

Can we lynch vijay first?

[AurorusVox]

Guys I understand Dcl looked scummy earlier but if he was scum this day would have ended ages ago.
Vote vijay.

[AurorusVox]

Ps whisper he's town because he refused to play ball yesterday when he was run up to l-2 and for the post he made early today. I'll do quotes when I'm home.

[AurorusVox]

Dcl why do you admonish amrun for his vote on a person you suspect to be scum and whom you did not unvote?
I also don't like your response to my question about your gambit.

You're town so start acting like it because you're not making this easy.

And vote vijay.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: MoI

They call me Neptune.

[AurorusVox]

MoI, if you think this wagon is scum motivated, point out which of the people are the scum that are motivating it.

[AurorusVox]

vote: iceguy

Discuss.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote

Content from Pere before day ends or bust.

[AurorusVox]

Didn't even realize I was in this game. Alright, reading up now.

Wut

[AurorusVox]

PS

@mod - do we get an extension for Pere replacing in?

[AurorusVox]

MoI I was hoping to see more responses to it.

I can lynch vijay today. That's a wagon that both ice and moi voters should agree on.

[AurorusVox]

Did you forget I was voting IceGuy and only unvoted because I want Pere to give content before the day ends (i.e. before Ice is hammered)

LLD is town, so.
Ice is probScum and Robo is still town but less obv about it now~

Vote: Vijay

Come ONNNN

[AurorusVox]

If not enough people will get on Ice, then we get Vijay today.

People should confirm in their next post which of these people they would vote for:

MoI [ ]
ICEguy [X]
Vijay [X]

[AurorusVox]

People should confirm in their next post which of these people they would vote for:

MoI [ ]
ICEguy [X]
Vijay [X]

[AurorusVox]

IceGuy (5) Voidedmafia, DCLXVI, MagnaofIllusion, Amrun, AurorusVox
MagnaofIllusion (4) whispersilk, IceGuy, Robocopter, LLD
vijay2vasandani (6) Robocopter87, AurorusVox, DCL, Voided, Amrun, MoI

Pere, Whisper and Vijay need to pipe up.

But so far we can get a compromise lynch on vijay but not on MoI or Ice.

Hence, as I said, Vijay is a suitable deadline wagon.

[AurorusVox]

PS I'm not including DCL because he became obvTown. There's probably some support there but I doubt of the same volume as the other wagons.
If someone else wants to add that on, feel free, but I don't support it, which is why I'm not doing it myself.

[AurorusVox]

Pere, Whisper and Vijay need to pipe up.

Which of the following would you lynch today

Voided
MoI
ICE

[AurorusVox]

Shit. I meant Vijay not Voided.

[AurorusVox]

D:

[AurorusVox]

Yes. Would you lynch Vijay today?

[AurorusVox]

So much epenis.
All the while, Vijay is laughing his asses off while you sit around with your rulers out.

LLD GET IN HERE AND TELL THEM THIS DOESN'T IMPRESS YOU
THEN VOTE VIJAY

[AurorusVox]

(Yes, I'm starting to think IceMoI is TVT)

[AurorusVox]

He's asking where your D has gone.
You should have claimed GICD.

[AurorusVox]

ICEGUY: CONFIRMED SCUM.

At the point you posted that, there were no Cs.
You've been caught out in a lie.

Vote: ICEGuy

[AurorusVox]

I'm not seeing ICE votes here.
I'm betting that post was a fakeclaim but ICE is scum, checked, saw that those WEREN'T his letters, and forgot.

[AurorusVox]

Refer to my previous post.

[AurorusVox]

Now, re: muddying water, I understand but if you're claiming hijinks to confuse scum, you MUST have checked that the letters were there. Otherwise, scum know that letter is obfuscation and the whole point of muddying the water is lost.

[AurorusVox]

Why should I have claimed my current letters out of the blue when I agreed the day before one should claim the three letters one wants to take?

Unvote; Vote: Vijay

[AurorusVox]

@MoI, nothing.

However, I think scum are just allowing this little fiasco to go on for ever. If one of you were scum, I expect of you would have been lynched by now.

[AurorusVox]

MoI, not enough people want to lynch ICEguy OR you. Even I'm not as convinced any more.
Vijay is a viable compromise wagon, which people in EITHER camp are able to agree with.

I'll give it to tomorrow because there is NOT going to be a no lynch today - not on MY watch.

[AurorusVox]

Fair enough.
But like I said, I'm starting to wonder about IceMoI as TvT...

[AurorusVox]

Fuuuu

6 hours

Someone change to Vijay

[AurorusVox]

Out of Vijay and ICE?

[AurorusVox]

Vote ICE and I'll hammer if necessary to save us from a NL D:<

[AurorusVox]

Told you that both of those players were town

NOW CAN WE FUCKING LYNCH VIJAY

Vote: Vijay

Flip: A1

[AurorusVox]

LLD, MoI was scum but then he TvT'd with ICEguy.
Lynch Vijay with me.
Do it.

[AurorusVox]

Flip: A2

[AurorusVox]

Collect: J6

FFS

[AurorusVox]

NO WAIT
I MEANT

FLIP

FFFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKK

[AurorusVox]

Should I flip the tile I derp-collected?
Or claim it and flip another?

[AurorusVox]

Wow Voided. Really?

Vote: LLD

LLD inno flip = lynch v2v.

Flip: B1

[AurorusVox]

Voided for LLDbuddy#1.

[AurorusVox]

inb4 vijay backtracks.

We lynch v2v tomorrow, no questions asked. There is no way LLD self-hammers as scum there.

[AurorusVox]

Ehhh well she might to prevent MoI from collecting.

Meh. LLD Town = autolynch Vijay.
LLD scum = doc on Vijay.

[AurorusVox]

Pere: Vijay crumbed a pretty obvious "investigative report says LLD is guilty" earlier in the thread.

[AurorusVox]

The "mispost" is MoI equating LLD's play here to her play in MBtM.

If you think LLD is scum for self-hammering it shouldn't matter whether you can see the guilty or not - since the net result is the same, and given the flashwagon on LLD, wouldn't you take it on faith that the crumb is there?

I'll go find it.

[AurorusVox]

But really LLD is the way to go. For reals.

Just look at the letters I got.

Okay. I think I see your issue. The last two sentences of 1179 are directly related to the next post.

"The letters I got" is related to LLD being the way to go for reals = letters tell me LLD is scum = PR report guilty

[AurorusVox]

I'm town. V2V dies tomorrow.

You're still scum with MoI.

D:

[AurorusVox]

You're not buddying LLD, Voided. You are her buddy. I used it as a noun, not a verb

LLD: stop trolling me and tell me why Voided isn't a scumread of yours?

[AurorusVox]

Buddying implies you're scum and LLD is town.
Buddy implies you are both scum.
There is more of a difference than "w/e" D:

[AurorusVox]

ROBOCOPTER IS CONFIRMED SCUM

I letter cop'd him.
He didn't have SH last night. He had

SL

.

Vote: Robocopter

If you want to go Vijay first, fine. But remember that Robo is CONFIRMED SCUM.

[AurorusVox]

I did it last night, and it confirmed that at the start of the night you had s, l, p, p and n.

[AurorusVox]

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

[AurorusVox]

You. Now die.

[AurorusVox]

Why wouldn't you steal vijay's letters?

[AurorusVox]

LLD flipped town, so no, Vijay had NOT used his letters to investigate LLD.
What planet are you on?

[AurorusVox]

unvote

[AurorusVox]

I find it implausible that Vijay just got up and called a guilty investigation on a player as scum. That simply doesn't make sense.

I want a full explanation from Vijay on the LLD death.

As for the people I think are scum, it begins with Vijay.

You claimed LLD was scum by way of guilty Day 3 and she turned up town, what say you about this?

VOTE: Vijay

So is VijayScum calling LLD guilty "implausible" or not?
If it's not plausible for Vijay to fake a guilty on LLD as scum...why are you voting for him and calling him scum?

I don't want to rush the day; v2v "explains" then we lynch both of these mofos asap.

[AurorusVox]

Flip: K5

[AurorusVox]

A gambit the day before LYLO? Die now.

[AurorusVox]

?!

Do you think Robo got Letter Steal as a town player?
Do you think Vijay really "gambitted" at pre-LYLO with a fake guilty?
Do you think there's any chance we're lynching OUTSIDE of Vijay/Robo today?

Are you scum after all?

[AurorusVox]

Yes, that's why I said not to rush things...?

[AurorusVox]

?!

No, if you were scum you WOULDN'T have said you'd copped her because she FLIPPED TOWN.

Nice cross bussing here. Ignore Whisper and lynch both scummz.

[AurorusVox]

...
Because at the point you claimed she was GUILTY I had no reason to doubt you?
I'm saying you can't have claimed COP today ("oh it was a gambit") because you OBV didn't cop her.

[AurorusVox]

Because LLD got flash wagonned before anyone could ask you anything.
Because we had no reason to doubt that you were legit.
Because if you were lying you were dying today regardless.

I mean, LLD self hammered, that's how obvious scum you are now she flipped town.

So v2v, am I bussing Robo?
Who else is scum?

[AurorusVox]

Want to see three more flips before we lynch anyone today.

[AurorusVox]

Both of you (Robo/v2v) have lied. You are both voting each other. Why should one liar be given more leeway than another?

[AurorusVox]

v2v dies today Robo but you still go down tomorrow~

[AurorusVox]

Let's let collects and flips happen first though aye?

[AurorusVox]

Collect: G4

Whisper, you need to at least comment on the two lies that have been exposed in-thread.

[AurorusVox]

WhisperScum?

Didn't you say that it was me OR Vijay as the last scum? Since Vijay is no longer a lynch candidate for you, why are you posting an appeal to me as if you think I'm town?

This is a good day.

[AurorusVox]

If you think I'm scum, and you think Robo and Vijay are town, why would you think I would need to paint you as scum, when town are lynching Vijay today, and I claimed Robo's lie earlier? Surely if I'm trying to paint anyone as scum it's Robo?

PS why did Robo initially try to doubt I had Letter Cop'd him when he later admits to actually using Letter Steal? If I knew he'd used LS, why would he throw doubt my way to start with?

[AurorusVox]

In that case you would have asked me what letters you had, not when I did it.
You can bus Vijay first but you won't get any towncred from it.

[AurorusVox]

What motivation was there in asking when?

[AurorusVox]

So you possibly think Vijay isn't scum, yet he needs to die?

Ain't that a little...wacky?

Yes he needs to die.

No it isn't wacky. Nobody is confirmed. There is always the possibility that Vijay isn't scum.

The possibility of him being scum outweighs the possibility of him being town. Its like 95% scum and 5% town. (Obviously estimating).

This post shows Robo tying himself in circles.

Look closer at what the original Robo post actually says.

And also just because everything Vijay did doesn't quite add up,

doesn't

mean he

isn't

scum. Just because there a few puzzle pieces missing doesn't mean you can't tell what the entire puzzle looks like.

Vijay needs to die.

The original post in NO WAY says that Robo thinks Vijay is "possibly not scum" - that's just Voided misreading the plethora of negatives in the post.

But when challenged on his view, Robo accepts that was what he meant and defends it.

That's scum DEFENSIVELY REACTING to probing by a town player, NOT town trying to clear up what he meant or did not mean when asked by a player of alignment unknown.

He's scrambling and forgetting where he is, because he's having to make it up as he goes along.

If you're not sure on RoboScum, you should now see it clear as day.

[AurorusVox]

Another one here.

@Amrun, waiting on collect confirmations etc

[AurorusVox]

I think LLD will rage if we don't lynch Vijay today.

Plus presumably Pere had pro-town rather than pro-scum letters. So long as he wasn't packing a Vig

Robo can die tomorrow, Whisper the day after...

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Vijay

Nope.jpeg

[AurorusVox]

._."

If Vijay is telling the truth, Robo/Whisper/MoI tripleBus?
I wondered, because MoI flipped from Robo to Vijay as lynch preference...?

Or is Vijay just a troll?

[AurorusVox]

Ehh. If he is town, then we'd lost as soon as we hit LYLO because there was no way he was making it past tomorrow, even if we had lynched Robo first.

[AurorusVox]

Woah woah woah. Regardless of messing up, it's only a game. No need to go and quit; learn from the experience and move on. Faking guilties (esp against LLD, who loves the 1v1) rarely works out well for town.

Now, if this is all an elaborate troll I will feel very stupid.

[AurorusVox]

Nicely modded Quil, the tiles appearing in that way was beautiful

I was ~this~ close to the dreaded PGO or COP combo, which I was going to use mercilessly. As soon as the C came my way in pre-game, that was the strategy, since I knew a P and an O could look like PGO to the untrained eye. Grarl.