Open 418 - Friends and Fun Times at the Fair (Game Over)

[Potack-ruv]

:3
Yay I'm also a VT here :D
*Hi-fives RP*

[Potack-ruv]

Also for those who were wondering about the name, AcRv came up with it. Not me :V

[Potack-ruv]

1: What Timezone are you in?

I (Om) am in UTC+10:00, and I know AcRv is half an hour behind me.

2: How often do you expect to be posting?

Hopefully a lot. Depends on my mood.

[Potack-ruv]

Not seeing how TAM is scum.
RP is obvtown.
Gunny is scum.
Bork is also scum, moreso than Gunny.
VOTE: bork

[Potack-ruv]

Lol OMGUS.

[Potack-ruv]

RP is just super special obvtown. I don't see scum claiming that early for no apparent reason. He's also probably sparked the most amount of discussion, and I feel like he's trying to find new things by going against the flow.

tl;dr Gut reads

[Potack-ruv]

Why is RP scum?

Also Gunny of all people should know how I play as town. That scumread on me is so horribly fake that I'm almost tempted to vote him over bork. He obviously has a guilty conscience when his first reaction to me calling him scum is that I must be scum, not something like "Why am I scum?"
PEDIT: Lol Gunny, stop being obvscum. I wanted a challenge.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm convincing others by explaining why you're scum.
Why are you town?

[Potack-ruv]

I still have yet to see you explain properly why we are scum.

[Potack-ruv]

RP, vote Gunny and I will switch. Otherwise, vote bork if you aren't already.

[Potack-ruv]

Why are either of those things scummy? Explain the motivations behind them. Entering the game and claiming is totally towny, at least I didn't have to ask for approval to make sure what I did wasn't scummy. AcRv wasn't even here lol.

@TAM: Who said it had to hold an advantage to town? It disadvantages scum more like it.

PEDIT: What things?

[Potack-ruv]

Hurry up everyone.

[Potack-ruv]

Also for those who were wondering about the name, AcRv came up with it. Not me :V

Well, I came up with the "ack-ruv" instead of "AcRv". Ommy did the "PotAcRv", but I thought that we should make it ack-ruv because I'd feel bad having my name in the signature but not Ommy's.

In case you hadn't figured this is AcRv with the keyboard at the moment.

Why Potack is scummy

... can you switch around the two words in the middle there?

1. Giving off reads like free candies.

So Ommy was speaking his mind. Big deal.

2. Entering the game following the trend without really giving it a thought. (has AcRv agreed on your claiming btw?)

I don't oppose Ommy's claim, I'm actually indifferent to it. Simply because no matter what allignment we are we would claim VT so early on if we were going to claim at all. The early claims this game don't really mean a whole lot.

We'll stick on Bork til he gives us something good. Or something at all.

[Potack-ruv]

Why?

[Potack-ruv]

Also hey, Gunny/bork/andrew scumteam works out fine.
There is only a small amount of fluff in these 4 pages. You're just using it as an excuse not to comment on everything that's happened. Then you make a weak attack on Gunny (your buddy) and a direct attack on us with no explanation for either.

C'mon scum, stop being so obvious.

PEDIT: Why not? I just claimed earlier to save me the trouble later. It's not like I would have claimed any other role anyway. Mason or Scum I would have claimed VT regardless.

[Potack-ruv]

Why does my claim scream obvious scum to you?
Your claim screams obvious scum to me because the 2nd claim of the bunch just seems like the right place to claim for towncred, plus the fact you had to ask for approval before doing it suggests you didn't want any flak for claiming it. At least I just jumped right in there head first without worrying.

[Potack-ruv]

Also you still haven't provided a reason for you being town. You're much more concerned with making me look scummy instead of defending yourself. Which isn't a town trait unless you are at L-1 where scumhunting can save your life.

[Potack-ruv]

Thank you for proving my point. I am pressuring you and you do not even acknowledge what I'm saying. You focus much more on making me look bad then clearing your name. Which isn't really something town do. And you are only really able to call me scummy because you know you don't have a proper explanation for why and you're just doing it to look consistent.

Maybe a vote will get you to realise you're being attacked.
VOTE: drmyshotgun
Bork can wait for now.

[Potack-ruv]

Yay, Soben is town. Not like I haven't found the scum already.

To be nice, I'll explain my bork read. Just need to get the posts up.

[Potack-ruv]

/inb4 waithowcanyougetascumreadfromonesinglepost

TAM, I like that you're trying to establish accountability.

Buddying up to TAM.

I don't like that you see lurking in deviation of their answer to your question as a scumtell.

Attacking him to not appear to be buddying.

People ignore games for tons of reasons.

Makes a blank statement without evidence to back it up, meaning he can use i to discredit the case without providing evidence.

Do you plan to drive policy lynches when this happens?

Strawmans the point a bit too far.

RedPanda, re: your claim

What the hell?

This sounds like a lead up to another attack, but it just cuts off right there. No further quesitoning at all.

Why are you trying to shut down RVS, the stage where we try to start discussion and get reactions going?

Why are you being obtuse?

No elaboration. What is he being obtuse about (I already know, just want his explanation)?

[Potack-ruv]

Oh did Om say that to me?
I can say the same thing to Om.
Om, you really really Really

REALLY

should know how I play.
And given that I know how

you

play, I think you might be scum in this game.

I don't actually pay attention to what you say half the time :V Only what I feel from your posts. I'm feeling scum from your posts, and my logic backs that up.
We've been in almost every single game together for a few months now, and you know this is exactly how I play as town when motivated.

[Potack-ruv]

asking someone to 'provide a reason for them being town' this early into the game isn't beneficial at all

Yes it is. He can't claim to be town if he can't back it up with why he is town.

and him focusing on pushing on you when he has a scum-read on you rather then defending himself is understandable.

He is not attempting to defend himself at all. And he is not attempting to convince everyone else that we are bad. He is just calling us scum and not doing a thing about it.

[Potack-ruv]

Sorry, I'll address Om/AcRv by Potack from now.
Potack-ruv. I like that name actually.

Pity you guys look scum.

If you were asking who Om

is

:
I'd say he's good player with pretty good gut and skills and certainly fun to play with. Played him so many times I lost the count.

Anyways, in this game seems like he's scum.

This proves my point exactly. He still hasn't explained why we're scum, and when he did I shot down his reasoning because he didn't explain the motivations for it (and still hasn't).

Venmar showed caution with things here. Especially the claiming.
He also questioned and answered and questioned showing no fear. A good sign.

I jumped in and claimed in my first post without fear. So why am I scum? You had to ask first before claiming, which shows you have fear.

I think TAM is kind of scummy because of his real distaste of claimings yet seems like he believes our claims anyways. Looks like a scum knowing people's alignments.

This is a terribly weak attack. What would be his motivation behind showing distaste of claiming if he were scum?

Soben looks town enough for his sensible approach to the game stating possible paths he (they?) might take in this game.

Why does this make him town?

Andrew has two post but looks Town. Very straight.

How? Why do those posts make him look town?

Absta is a bit scummy because I thought he would throw a RVS no matter what. He didn't. Maybe he read the RedPanda post before posting. Yet he didn't do much.

Why was he supposed to throw a RVS? No matter what implies he would do it as either alignment, so does that mean he doesn't have an alignment?

Duplicity, meanwhile, also has one post but that post looks as if he's trying to act like he was here all the time. Not very shady though.

This really sounds like a scumslip. It sounds like you are trying to keep him open to jump on later, yet once you realise it's actually Soben you try and play it off innocently.

McStab looks scummy because he says he likes the activity yet he contributed only one post for it.

What would be his motivation for not contributing if he were scum?

RedPanda is Town because he claimed. I believe that claim. I also see that he's very into it already. Scums will try to get into things rather slowly after Towns started.

I claimed instantly too. I'm obviously into it already, as I'm pressuring you like mad. You still haven't provided a solid reason for calling me scum.

[Potack-ruv]

I have actually voted him and he still hasn't bothered defending. When he attacked me, I refuted all his points the instant I could.

[Potack-ruv]

I keep seeing everyone ask why RP's roleclaim helps town.

Why does it hurt town?

[Potack-ruv]

It does help determine alignments. But only if you ask everyone's reasons for their opinion about it.

[Potack-ruv]

What motivation would town have to lie in terms of claiming their roles? Do you assume all Masons should claim truthfully?

[Potack-ruv]

Hey, AcRv here, I just checked on the game and saw Ommy's last post from us.

Discussion about claims at this point does absolutely nothing other than clutter the thread up with non-alignment based discussion.

Quit it out, please.

Masons would claim VT at this point in game. VT would claim VT at this point in game. Scum would claim VT at this point in game.

Other than that, I'm comfortable with everything he's said. Not as certain on Bork as he is, but I am really good with our vote on shotgun.

[Potack-ruv]

Why Potack is scum:
Following the trend with claiming VT without commenting anything about it is scummy because it shows you are just doing what others are doing.

You followed it too. Why am I scum instead of you?

You did it without hesitating in your first post that means you rushed into this.

So did RP, why isn't he scum too?

Town would have given second thoughts about this or at least asked around.

Got any evidence of this? Aksi why aren't you attacking RP for this point too?

THere were only handful of players at that time.

There were less when you claimed and even less when RP claimed.

Giving out alignments like free candies (which you didn't deny to btw) is scummy because it misdirects people.

How? They are just my opinions.

It can tell a person: Whoa, this guy is goood. What this guy says must be true!!

Got any evidence to support that? That would generally happen because I am a pro-active town force, not because I am giving out reads like it's nobody's business.

This might not be the case for most of us but it is sort of faking your confidence and expertise of the game.

How? I am already an expert, and you called me a good player. You can't attack me for this if you think it's true too.

With virtually not much to get reads from you saying this and that with that much sureness can only mean that you are Scum already in full knowledge of one's alignment.

How can you determine this? I am showing confidence because I am confident in my reads. I only ever et this confident as town.

You say Soben is Town in your post #101.
This is actually being a hypocrite when you look at the post #106 you made.

How? I am asking why you think he's town.

I tried explaining things with what I have yet you try to tackle every single one of my reads?

Because I'm pressuring you because I think you're scum.

Almost all of them pretty much ends with: "Why is this that?"-esque questions.

Because I want you to explain things.

They look rhetoric, so I won't answer any of them.

Translation: "I'm not going to answer you're questions because I'm scum and can't make up an answer to them."

AcRv actually does nothing to undo Potack's scumminess.

AcRv has barely done anything, he's not really been here for much of this.

Looks like he's just keeping his vote on me because changing it would hurt them.

I started attacking you with my vote on Bork, and I moved it to you soon after.

I certainly don't feel his: "comfort" from Potack's previous posts.

Why not?

His posts sounds like assuring that what Om has done is alright for him. When it actually isn't.

What makes you think this?

Potack (Om mostly) and I can't be Town together in this game. Therefore either one of us is Scum. Om is Town, ergo Drmyshotgun is Scum.

FTFY

Well, I can't guarantee that he's scum, but right now I want one of us dead.

"Hmm, I'm so sure he's scum but I can't prove it. So he must die."

I'll yield if I have to, should the Town decide on me, since I'm in 11 games right now.

"Look, I'll feign towniness by sacrificing myself to get someone mislynched."

Seriously, this is a load of bullshit.

[Potack-ruv]

@TeChNoWC: I've already explained why Gunny is scum, but if you need a hint, just look at any of my posts.

[Potack-ruv]

I can link you to a scum game from Venmar if you want.

PEDIT: Lol contradiction. I suggest you talk that out with Regfan first.

[Potack-ruv]

lol

[Potack-ruv]

But Gunny is scum. We should lynch him today. We can focus on everyone else tomorrow.

PEDIT: Lololol

[Potack-ruv]

Lol.
Dissonance.

[Potack-ruv]

shotgun is confirmed town. I'm 100% sure of this. its because of something hes done in this thread. I don't want to elaborate on this. I'll play this card when the time is right.

I will not stop pushing him until you can explain this and I deem it right.

Om can you not do that editing quote shit, it's verry annoying.

It's much more annoying having to go through all the things I want to talk about and make them into separate quotes.

#67 - "I still have yet to see you explain properly why we are scum."
Wait, so if you happen to be scum, and he explained it "properly", you'd just concede the point? What?

This is a stupid attack. Considering my play so far it would be highly obvious I'm going to keep pressuring him until he gets lynched.

#84 reads like a weak OMGUS (Andrew disagrees with me, gotta be scum).

Why? Is my point not completely valid?

#89 "You focus much more on making me look bad then clearing your name. Which isn't really something town do. "
No, this is precisely what town need to be doing; attempting to find scum.

Town should also be defending themselves. They can't get scum lynched if the whole town is yelling at them. I'm sure if you weren't able to clear your name then nobody would listen to you. Plus, he was focusing more on making me look bad, instead of convincing everyone else how bad I was.

#102 -- you accuse me of a strawman when I'm asking for clarification? I'm actually actively avoiding strawmanning by not ASSUMING he meant anything and asking what he meant.

You take it too far. You assume he will do it every single time it happens, instead of asking for clarifications as to when he may do it specifically.

Also in #102 -- You already knew what I meant but you want me to explain it anyway? Why should I have to elaborate on something for the sake of elaboration?

Because your answer will help me determine your alignment even more.

[Potack-ruv]

hell yes, om's editing quote shit is annoying, so annoying.
in fact, i dont remember him doing it in one of his town games..
correct me if im wrong.

Wow, taking something that someone said and turning it into a horribly weak attack. This is seriously a load of bullshit. I do it because it makes responding easier for me. And I do it as either alignment. Go and find games where I haven't done it as town.

redpanda claimed first
shotgun claimed second. i said he wants town cred, but tbh town
or scum can do that.

Waffles. Make up your mind. Is he town or scum from doing that?

however, om+Acrv claimed third, which is just ???. your just following

Why are we following? I jumped straight into it without giving it any thought. Gunny had to ask before he did it, which means he was afraid of getting attacked if he claimed.

OH SHOTGUN IS 100% TOWN. IM SURE OF THIS TOO!

Why?

[Potack-ruv]

If you think Gunny is scum then vote him.

[Potack-ruv]

I don't like people calling people scum and not having a reason for not voting them.

Why would a town flip from you instantly make everything I said about you useless?

PEDIT: RP is super obv town. No idea what his reasoning is. Haven't really paid attention to the case on Venmar, but I think Venmar is town anyway.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm not going to answer for Potack's apparent "questions" within the quote of my posts because I'm sure they'll just return with more piles of questions.

Translation: "I can't answer his questions because he'll just ask me more and I don't want that because I need to stay low and avoid suspicion."

[Potack-ruv]

lrn2committ to your attacks. "Oh Om, did something scummy, but hey he does it in other games too so it isn't scummy."

Anybody who knows me knows I say shit without thinking. Why would I actually be thinking about fakeclaiming on my first post if I were scum? What motivation would I have to fakeclaim a role everyone would claim regardless of their real role?
Gunny posting his waffles is not towny at all. It shows how waffly he is being and how non-comittal he is. He couldn't even claim without asking because he was scared of being pushed for it.

[Potack-ruv]

Oh wow, that sounded like you just stopped comitting to half your read on me. Where has the confidence in me being scum gone? You did confim vote me you know.

Properly means that he explains it in detail and uses facts, instead of just making up bullshit and giving a few lines.

It's still strawmanning no matter which one it is. You're still including the words "every time". Those words are generally used in strawmanning phrases. As I said, you should have calrified when specifically he was going to do that instead.

Also I expect you to explain that specific answer after Gunny answers your question.

[Potack-ruv]

Oh wow, that sounded like you just stopped comitting to half your read on me. Where has the confidence in me being scum gone? You did confim vote me you know.

The hell? I very much think you're scum. You just responded with a point I had with "well um I'm committed to shotgun dying" which is quite true and doesn't at all invalidate what I said.

The overall feel I got from your last post was that you were horribly not committed to your scumread of me and it sounded really fake.

It's still strawmanning no matter which one it is. You're still including the words "every time". Those words are generally used in strawmanning phrases.

This is inductive reasoning and is fallacious. And once again, I was asking a question and by definition not misrepping or even repping at all.

So because you asked it as a question, everything I said is invalidated? Yeah, no. Why is it fallacious reasoning?

@Soben: read my #145.
Top scum reads: Potato, Venmar, TAM.

Make a case on all of them.

[Potack-ruv]

Only just realised I was using the wrong account lol.

One is directly putting words in someone's mouth, the other is indirectly doing it. This is my point.
Also the general context of the words I mentioned normally point to strawmanning, and your question was no exception.

Why is arguing semantics anti-town?

Gut lol.
I've been getting a townie feel from Venmar's posts. Though again, I still haven't really read them in detail.
Why don't you go and point out the scummy things he has said and then I'll see?

RP, are you willing to do a bork lynch?

Generalising. That's a fallacy. You're using one point that links them all together to try and portray my reasons for suspecting you as scummy, without paying attention to the cases and reasons I've given for all of them.

I mean seriously, that was a horribly weak attack and you must be scum for doing that instead of defending yourself.

PEDIT: I already am bro. And again, you willing to do a bork wagon?

[Potack-ruv]

Really, is that all? I thought maybe Venmar had done something really scummy.

Anyway, I can't really determine anything logically from Venmar's posts because he hasn't posted much yet. I'd rather give it time before looking at him again, so for now I'll stick with my gut (my gut is great btw, Techno can verify this is true). I feel Venmar's earlier posts were more scumhunting focused, but yes, I kinda do think his later ones are more focused on defending. But I don't really see that as a scumtell yet. I know as town sometimes I don't comment on fights that dominate the page. So I'm regarding that as null.

And that time he was scum because he made a really weak attack on me instead of defending himself. Which is really scummy, because he was focused on making me look bad instead of pointing out why I look bad.

[Potack-ruv]

Bitch, I got natural swag.

[Potack-ruv]

I had you caught within 3 pages after replacing in N2 an not reading anything before that.. Don't underestimate me.

[Potack-ruv]

Bork's question:
The one thing I wanna know from Shotgun: why did you give out reads in #36 and then condemn Potato for doing the same thing later (I'm looking for a very specific answer here).

Gunny's answer:
Cuz I like to give reads early on in the games natch.

So do I. So why does me giving out reads early make me scum?

I love how everyone who disagrees with you (shotgun, me, andrew) is scum.

This is quite spot-on actually.

This post literally screamed to me "I AM SCUM." /inb4iamaccusedofomgus

Potak I thought you was Om of the mother*...?
I'm literally skipping your posts with the bold edits.

No, just read them. I have to deal with you barely posting anything of use when you actually do post, so you should be able to deal with me actually posting

useful

things in a style you aren't accustomed to.

Bork's question:
The one thing I wanna know from Shotgun: why did you give out reads in #36 and then condemn Potato for doing the same thing later (I'm looking for a very specific answer here).

Gunny's answer:
Cuz I like to give reads early on in the games natch.

That's not at all what I was hoping for -- I thought you were doing what LS did in open 397 where he caught scum who were denouncing town reads. You didn't seem to have considered that, so my question remains: why did you slam Potato for providing reads out the wazoo when you yourself did it too?

Yeah that's it, give him the answer then ask the question.

Potak I thought you was Om of the mother*...?
I'm literally skipping your posts with the bold edits.

Hey I'll tell you what.

You don't have to comment after reading everything.

Keep commenting as you read.

I agree with this so fucking much. This is basically my playstyle. Comment on everything as I read, rarely reread the game.

[Potack-ruv]

What is it with the yelling at Ommy to stop bolding quotes? I know they can be annoying, I've had to respond to walls of them at a time, but if you're going to the point of not reading them because they... what's even wrong with reading them? They're annoying to reply to when you have to start messing with quote tags, but you people who are saying "I don't want to read them" are just weak... really, if you can't tell that the bolded part is just added in then... just... I don't know...

In case you hadn't figured by the referring to Ommy in thrid person, this is AcRv again at the keyboard. Yeah, I do still exist in this hydra, I just had stuff come up yesterday.

That apparent "slip" made by Venmar in whichever post it was made me laugh... look at it this way - do you ACTUALLY think scum would go and say "I was scum in this other game like I am now."? It was obvious what he meant...

I'm not going to answer for Potack's apparent "questions" within the quote of my posts because I'm sure they'll just return with more piles of questions.

But if you're town then the questions can't unravel anything bad... not answering game-related questions is NEVER a good thing if you're town.

Still liking the idea of hanging Gunny from a tree.

[Potack-ruv]

Actually, Ommy is. He does that to people. The thing is he knows what he's doing when he does those question thingies, as annoying as they are to respond with because of the tags everywhere. If you're town you have nothing to worry about in answering the questions though... even if it does take twenty minutes.

[Potack-ruv]

I approve of it because it gets done what needs to be done. I wouldn't have hydrad with him if I thought he didn't know what he was doing.

[Potack-ruv]

Prove we've got the wrong guy. You can do that if you answer the questions. I know you're going to do that later, but until you do I know I'm not moving the vote.

[Potack-ruv]

I have yet to see you prove yourself to be the wrong guy.
I don't like it when people disagree with me. I like to be the leader. But I'm just suspecting you guys because you are scum. And unlike you I have provided valid reasons for my suspicions which haven't been refuted.
-Om

PEDIT: Hey, don't steal my sentence

[Potack-ruv]

Look, if you want to call yourself town, then fucking act town. You are in no shape, size or form able to sit there and fail at refuting our attacks because you are "town." If you want to call yourself town, then don't fucking sit there and pussy out by not even bothering to respond to our questions. The key parts of being town are the ability to pressure, and to hold up under pressure. You have not demonstrated either of these key points. Do those things for me and maybe I'll actually listen to what you have to say. Because as far as I'm concerned, you are scum, and if you aren't then gog help us all.

Make a case on us. Demonstrate how every tiny thing we say could be scummy. Explain it in detail, and all the motivations that we would have for doing them if we were scum. Maybe then can anyone call your vote justified.
Defend against our case, respond to our questions. Refute our points. If you do these then maybe you could be town. But I have seen jack-shit of any of this from you so as far as I'm concerned you need to die right now. I will stop at absolutely nothing to get you lynched, unless a miracle happens and someone is able to convince me you are town.

Also AcRv says basically the same thing except nicer and with a "please."

[Potack-ruv]

@bork: Here is a completed scumgame of mine. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21527

Everyone else I've played with before has been able to deal with my bold edits, so I don't see why you guys have to replace out over it.

Don't have time for much else, need to go to school.

[Potack-ruv]

Most of the case on shotgun is because people think his case sucks.

No it's not. His case sucking is part of it. The rest is his reluctance to answer my questions in fear of being pressured even further, and also whining a lot because of it. He has done jack-shit this whole game except vote me (which surprisingly he removed) and repeatedly called me scum with no shred of evidence. His case was horrible and disproven easily, and he hasn't even explained the parts I wanted him to clarify.

As if you have a town read on Gunny for that? I post lots and lots and generally they can be close together. If I'm scum I might also post really fast because I'm under pressure and want to get my posts out there quickly. That is not a town tell at all, otherwise I'm always town.

Also, when did I mention absta's replace out as scummy?

[Potack-ruv]

*generic "hey, it's AcRv at the keyboard" comment*

Sigh, will I get the rope if I don't answer for Potack's countless questions?
I think people are using those questions to corner me around more.

Look, if you're town you don't lose anything from answering the questions. The fact you're refusing to is just off anyway, and Ommy doesn't tend to ask pointless questions, so there's no point in not answering them.

Probably because he's so sure of my guilt? I dunno.
*shrug*

VOTE: drmyshotgun
Bye bye.

UNVOTE:
Lol jokes.
This might get me blacklisted.

VOTE: Potack

Why Potack is scum:
Following the trend with claiming VT without commenting anything about it is scummy because it shows you are just doing what others are doing.
You did it without hesitating in your first post that means you rushed into this.
Town would have given second thoughts about this or at least asked around.
THere were only handful of players at that time.

Giving out alignments like free candies (which you didn't deny to btw) is scummy because it misdirects people.
It can tell a person: Whoa, this guy is goood. What this guy says must be true!!
This might not be the case for most of us but it is sort of faking your confidence and expertise of the game.
With virtually not much to get reads from you saying this and that with that much sureness can only mean that you are Scum already in full knowledge of one's alignment.

You say Soben is Town in your post #101.
This is actually being a hypocrite when you look at the post #106 you made.
I tried explaining things with what I have yet you try to tackle every single one of my reads?
Almost all of them pretty much ends with: "Why is this that?"-esque questions.
They look rhetoric, so I won't answer any of them.

AcRv actually does nothing to undo Potack's scumminess.
Looks like he's just keeping his vote on me because changing it would hurt them.
I certainly don't feel his: "comfort" from Potack's previous posts.
His posts sounds like assuring that what Om has done is alright for him. When it actually isn't.

Potack (Om mostly) and I can't be Town together in this game. Therefore either one of us is Scum. I am Town, ergo Om is Scum.
Well, I can't guarantee that he's scum, but right now I want one of us dead.
I'll yield if I have to, should the Town decide on me, since I'm in 11 games right now.

notice timestamps between every post.

His case came straight from the heart.

Those five posts could have come straight from a scum's heart too... he decided to change his mind about self voting. Either faction would do that. Then he decided he better go and outline the case on us. It's really null, seeing as either faction could have done it like that. Especially seeing Shogun's like that anyway.

[Potack-ruv]

Take a look at where you started to be a whiny, uncooperative baby and then respond to everything after that.

[Potack-ruv]

... this is AcRv telling you all that I am going to hit Ommy over the head with a wooden mallet for that comment directed at drmyshotgun.

I agree with the point he was trying to get across, but it could have been done much better.

Going to be AFK for 5 days, have fun with Ommy.

[Potack-ruv]

You know, none of this would have happened had you

just responded to everything I said.

That was not uncalled for at all, and it perfectly describes your actions.

Chrimi, you need to fucking start contributing. Stop posting shit and actually do something for once. No more excuses, give me all your reads right now.


Welcome Code_X

PEDIT: Chrimi, reads now and reads after all your ISO's. Gogogogo.

[Potack-ruv]

Gut reads are fine. The only thing bad about that list is how you think bork is town when he is obvscum.

[Potack-ruv]

@Gunny: You are scum regardless of your replacing out, I just think you really need to grow a thicker skin, though if you are having tough times IRL then I'm sorry that I may have gone a bit too over the line with that comment.

@Chrimi: Why did you find bork town?

[Potack-ruv]

But what made you have that gut read on bork?

[Potack-ruv]

Is making sense a towntell to you?

[Potack-ruv]

Lol, Techno.
VOTE: Techno
I like how you try to make it look like I'm flaking.
It really looks like a townie thing to do.
I'm sorry that I'm not here when most people are, and that when I am here there aren't many things to post about.
But still, how am I flaking when my last post was pretty recent when you had said that?

Oh well, I have school holidays now, so I should be much more active (even though I'll probably sleep in till the time school would normally end).

----------------
FTR, I'm not continuing with Gunny just yet. I do think I went a bit too over the line so I'll take a break from attacking him so I can cool off (/inb4heactuallydidthisforthisexactreason).

Also I'm too distracted by nothing right now to pay attention to what I just read. I'll post more later.

[Potack-ruv]

If you are going to sheep me, you need to provide some original arguments instead of just parroting what I say.
Sure, I like being the town leader and all, but I don't like having to carry the weight of everyone in the game at once.

PEDIT: No. He isn't.

[Potack-ruv]

VOTE: andrew
You literally just claimed scum.
That scumslip was hilarious.

[Potack-ruv]

I like how you don't even bother defending.
It shows you know you fucked up and can't get out of it.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm sure you saw the same thing right, McStab? What did you see?

[Potack-ruv]

FIND SCUM (whos name is not andrew94 or shotgun)

This basically means that we should find the scum who aren't him and Gunny. He didn't say he wasn't scum, and he didn't say he was town either. He basically said, "Scum who aren't us," meaning he's scum with Gunny and we should find the other one instead of pressuring them.

[Potack-ruv]

I like how Gunny instantly assumes I think McStab is town.
I mean sure, I noticed it, do I have to say it though?

[Potack-ruv]

Gunny, if you are going to keep defending andrew, will you just claim if you are Mason with him or not? I'm getting sick of you constantly defending andrew while you have yet to bring up one good reason for him being town. Either prove he's town, or stop defending him.

[Potack-ruv]

VOTE: McStab
Lol, that last sentence gave me a really bad gutvibe.
Gunny's kneejerk reaction was not scummy at all. It was actually towny, and Gunny is now town.
Why was his reaction scummy?

PEDIT: I'm referring to the post before that one. Also hey, why no town read on me if you're going to sheep me?

[Potack-ruv]

Okay, Gunny and andrew are confirmed. I'm now sure enough in Gunny town to be sure that he's telling the truth.
Also just wait, I'll get to it soon.

[Potack-ruv]

This whole masonclaim is way too vague for me to get behind.

How?

I don't think we should hammer yet by any means, nor do I want to out the masons directly, but at this point it's essentially linking two players, both of whom have been acting suspect to say the least.

"We should not lynch them, but we should not tie them together." This sounds like super horribly fake town jargen that you're only saying to look pro-town. This is really waffly and I really don't have any more bad words to describe it with.

Furthermore I hate the logic of "lynch me if im town lynch you".

Why?

So anyone who accuses you is autoscum?

What lead you to this conclusion?

Or Potack must be for attacking both you and drmy?

Same question for this.

And it doesn't help town at all to let yourself be lynched. Also, why wouldn't it work? Does that mean you're scum? I hesitate to think any scum could make such an obvious slip, but I am unsure if I'm detecting any sarcasm there or not.

What makes you think this?

The only part that "won't work" is if you aren't town.

I just think coupled with his vague mason-esque claim and poor reaction to your catch, he really deserves some attention and pressure.

Why do the mason claims make him scum or make him need pressure? If he really is the Mason (which I am now confident he is) that would just put him out in the open for the scum to shoot at any time.

[Potack-ruv]

If you really were concerned with whether or not Gunny and andrew were Masons, then why didn't you ask directly? Were you too afraid of being accused of rolefishing?

[Potack-ruv]

I'll be out pressuring scum while you bicker with Potack or offer pithy one liners, drmyshotgun.

This is discrediting and misrepping. He's only pointing out the bad things Gunny had done to make him look bad without mentioning everything else.

1. Needlessly and out of nowhere fight with Potack for 20 pages.

How is it needless?

2. You and Andrew buddy up in the most obvious fashion ever, which at least helps in the sense that only masons or mafia could be so assured of the other (or the most gullible townie ever).

Give me examples of the buddying.

3. Claim how stupid everyone who suspects you must be (attempting to stifle discussion, a scum trait).

How is that a scum tell?

Now, I don't buy into the whole andrew "scumslip" wholeheartedly.

What did you think of it?

His followup post however is illogical and inconsistent.

How?

Your post in his defense is useless and doesn't help at all.

How?

And, most importantly, why isn't a little pressure good? He's not at L-1 or anything drastic yet, it's simply pressing for more information.

Why does him being at L-1 matter?

Discussion is important to the town.

Oh my gog this is so horribly fake towny jargen again. Seriously, this is horrible.

If you and andrew are masons, then you really ought to contribute more to discussion beyond this silly argument with Potack

Why?

- see what Soben and VisceraEyes are doing perhaps

What specifically have they been doing that made you use them as an example?

, and post reads/put pressure on people. At this point, you're tunnelling Potack and it's not adding anything new to the equation for the town to go off of.

How is it not doing anything new? I'm basically tunneling too, so why aren't you attacking me?

McStab didn't initially see your so-called "scumslip" Potack.
He was just joining the party to "pressure" Andrew.
Then, when you asked him what he saw, in your utter eagerness to check if someone shares the same opinion as you have, only then, did McStab make up some bullshit to justify his vote.

I saw the scumslip - if you'd bothered to read the post instead of putting in some kneejerk OMGUS defense post on behalf of andrew, you would've noticed that I wrote this

This reads like super horrible discrediting. I like all the adjectives you put in to make it sound better, at least when I do it I justify it too.

:

"I hesitate to think any scum could make such an obvious slip".

This does not mean you knew which slip I was talking about, or if I was even talking about an actual slip. You could have just been blindly agreeing with me to get on my good side.

That's prior to Potack writing it.

The only reason I'm not confirmed 100% on you and andrew being scum is because I doubt any scumteam could be so blatantly obviously working together - either way, you've played this terribly.

So why do you think they're too scummy to be scum, yet you still have your vote on andrew? Also I notice the discrediting at the very end too. It's a nice touch.

Through your surefire association with andrew you've either A) Revealed you and andrew as some of the most obvious scum ever or B) Given two masons identities to the scum over a dumb fight with Potack.

Why was the fight dumb?

You and andrew have outed yourselves one way or another long before I brought it to attention.

Give the earliest example you can.

As for my lack of contribution, it was related to not having the time to properly devote some solid content to the game. You see, instead of confusing town with fluff posts like you or andrew, I prefer to offer real content in my posts.

What is this content you speak of? All I see is you bullshitting and parroting. Also hey, more discrediting. Which are the fluff posts that you are talking about?

"Completely outing"? Let's be frank, half the game was referencing you and andrew as possible masons over the last few pages and were asking for clarity.

Give quotes for each person who said something like that. One per person is fine.

If you are masons, then the scum would have to be blind and retarded to not see that claim. If you aren't masons, you're not helping your wincondition because you either outed yourself as scum or confused the hell out of everyone as a VT.

I really don't like all this Mason speculation. What are your reads on them individually? If they are scum who is their last member and why?

I told Potack what I saw to confirm that I was aware of what the pressure vote was, and that I wasn't sheeping.

You still could have bulshitted a random answer like Gunny said.

Please, stop trying to draw ridiculous conclusions and connections where there is nothing, you're only embarassing yourself.

Discrediting. How are his conclusions ridiculous?

If anything, I would say the andrew vote has been successful - your insane kneejerk defense of him reeks of scum to me.

Why?

I have suspects - you and andrew. I pressure vote andrew and drmyshotgun comes out swinging on his behalf without addressing andrew's reaction. That vote got two super scummy reactions from you both.

Explain how they're scummy.

As for others, I have suspected Venmar/Rainbowdash's slot, but I haven't had the time to get around to posting a bigger analysis. For now, he's on my list of people I view as scummy, but he certainly isn't topping it with these reactions.

Make a case on Venmar's slot. Gogogo.

I have town reads on VisceraEyes, Soben and RedPanda. I do have other opinions on other players obviously, but I'll need some more time (e.g. later today) to post a more comprehensive list.

Post it ASAP.

ok lynch me, if im town, lynch you.
deal?

oh wait, that wont work...

How is that helpful to the town at all?

How is it not helpful to the town?

Andrew's reactions have been nothing but scummy and poor logically.

How?

Drmyshotgun's posts have been consistent with him being partners with andrew, but that doesn't mean town at all.

Does it mean Gunny is town individually to andrew?

I will say this - I believe that if drmy or andrew flip scum, the other is almost (like 95%) certainly scum, or if one flips mason, the other is certainly mason.

We've already been over this. Now you're just repeating things.

I'm more satisfied now that you've claimed mason. Your connection was obvious to everyone, but only confusing town (scum would know that if you and andrew are partners, you aren't scum - town, on the other hand, wouldn't be able to discern mason or mafia till one of you flipped, and the vagueness was just muddying the waters).

Again, super horrible fake towny jargen. Please, stop that now.

With this claim, however, you're no longer a good choice for lynching today.

Unvote

So you are now finally getting your vote off him, after all this time waffling on whether or not you believe the claim? This reads to me like you knew you weren't going to be able to bullshit your way to a mislynch on andrew or Gunny, so you had to abandon the wagon.

If you're really mason, then tonight the scum will kill one of you, which confirms the other. If one of you don't die tonight, then you're most likely scum

Nope, try again.

, or the mafia let a mason survive

Why would they do this?

(helping the town out in the long run as I can't see you getting lynched if both other masons are alive). Either way, the town is in a stronger position.

Potack, I wasn't "sheeping" you. I placed a pressure vote to see what reaction it would elicit. It was a clear reaction and it cleared up the vagueness around the mason claim (which, as I said before, was only going to confuse those who can't discern between the two groups, as opposed to the scum, who would already know that two people working together aren't scum).

How did it clear up the vagueness? I was the one who got Gunny to claim Masons with andrew.

This OMGUS doesn't help though, drmyshotgun and andrew.

How is it OMGUS?

If you are masons, you're wasting your time being overdefensive and not scumhunting others.

What makes you think they're not scumhunting anyone else? Gunny had literally just attacked you and you even acknowledged it.

I won't be voting for either of you today because of what I said above, but I seriously disagree with what you consider productive scumhunting.

Why?

Tonight, I'll be making a more comprehensive post regarding who I consider scummy and townie and my rationale as to why.

Post it ASAP.

[Potack-ruv]

Didn't you ever think that maybe I wanted you to elaborate? Maybe I wanted your side of the story, even if I already knew the answer? Sitting there and insulting me, discrediting me, and saying I'm not scumhunting just because I attacked you will not get you anywhere. I don't try hard to scumhunt as town, it just comes naturally to me.

This fake rage is hilarious. Couple that with the horrible OMGUS vote in which you fall victim to the same reasoning you attacked andrew and Gunny for ("anyone who attacks you is scum") and you have a nice, fresh, delicious scum, ready to eat.

Here's one I prepared earlier.

Confirm vote: McStab

[Potack-ruv]

If you want, I can respond to everything you just said instead of generalising it like I did just then, but how do I know you're not just going to OMGUS me again? I'll probably be accused of trying too hard again. Remind me, how is that a scumtell?

Also if you actually do want me to respond to everything, it will still have to wait until tomorrow because I'm tired now.

[Potack-ruv]

Oh man, I only just skimmed those last two posts but wow you really like your buzzwords. I lost count of how many times I saw the phrase "reaction fishing."

The funny thing is, you sound so sure about me reaction fishing, yet you don't even realise that wasn't what I was doing. Then again, you're scum so you'd need to fake that anyway.
I clearly stated that all my questions are

because I want you to explain your reasons in your words so I don't have to assume everything.

If you think those are pointless questions they hey, maybe your opinions are pointless too?

"Making a case when there isn't one against a townie is." Firstly, this is absolute bullshit. You have done nothing to prove you're town, and you have just OMGUSed me for bullshit reasons. Secondly, why is making a case against a townie bad? I don't know whether or not you are town. I am 99% sure you are scum, but I can never be 100% sure unless we're buddies. Gunny is town too, so is andrew. Why am I not scum for making cases on them?

[Potack-ruv]

Also, I can sense this argument is going to be the Potack v Gunny argument all over again (after all, you're scum for basically the same reasons, except you've at least bothered to respond to my attacks), so I'll stop before it gets too out of hand and we wall up the place.

I do, however, want everyone else's views on this.

/inb4mcstabtriestoaccusemeofbackingoutoftheargument

[Potack-ruv]

Also willing to get behind a Chrimi lynch. If only because he's been pretty useless so far.
McStab is scum. Soben is scum (because he kept agreeing with me way too much early game, like he was trying to get on my good side). Techno is also scum.
However, if Chrimi flips scum, Soben is probably town, as he is my least confident of my scumreads.

I would post a lot less if AcRv was here more often, as right now I feel I have to carry ourselves through the game without him here.
However, to be less annoying, I'll try and avoid so much posting, to do this, I'll wait at least two hours before posting again unless something really urgent happens.

[Potack-ruv]

Of course they should, no point in holding back now.

[Potack-ruv]

Look, I just want to end this Mason talk, and with everyone speculating about whether or not your claims are true, I think the best option right now is just to get all of you to confirm each other as partners.

[Potack-ruv]

If someone else out there is an actual Mason and they haven't claimed yet, they should claim as it will definitely out scum because there can't be more than 3 masons.

The 'they' is just me referring to the unconfirmed-to-even-exist Mason in a non-gender specific way.

[Potack-ruv]

I trust you guys, but I'm not everyone. As evidenced by the majority of the discussion going on there are still people who don't trust you guys.

The only reason I can think of fakeclaiming Mason as town would be to draw away a NK from a real Mason, but at this point with several Mason claims a Mason fakeclaim is stupid because the real Masons will just try to vote that person because they know they aren't their partner.

[Potack-ruv]

If someone were to claim Mason right now, they would most likely be town, because claiming Mason after a supposed Mason team has already claimed will almost always get you some pressure, and scum wouldn't want to have that. Which means one of the supposed Mason team is lying.

[Potack-ruv]

Actually disregard that last sentence, it doesn't work in that example.

[Potack-ruv]

All the Masons claiming did not hurt town as bad as it has been made out to be. I really don't like how Techno is trying to continue this issue to drag out the day.

Gunny is right, we need to shut the fuck up about the Mason claims. Gunny, andrew and TAM are all confirmed town. Everyone else is fair-game.

[Potack-ruv]

I am sad that I wasn't even mentioned as active, near conf. town.
I thought we had something TT^TT

[Potack-ruv]

VOTE: TeChNoWC
Continuing on from yesterday. I still haven't seen AcRv around btw.

[Potack-ruv]

Thank you for giving me the confidence I needed to call you scum and not worry about it.
I appreciate that.

Unless andrew and TAM can confirm this, my vote will stay nice and warm in it's car parked ontop of you.

[Potack-ruv]

Hey, AcRv here. Sorry about being away for the last five days, I was on a camp. I am now however completely wrecked and know that I'm going to miss everything that's staring me in the face, so I'm going to wait til tomorrow before reading through and posting. Sorry about that, I hope Ommy played nicely while I was gone.

[Potack-ruv]

Frankly I don't like this wishy washy read you had on me as scum that you NEVER backed up nor were you willing to follow through and vote me. Not the Om I know. My townread on you has severely diminished.

This part is hilarious, he tries to incriminate me because I'm not acting the same way towards him like I did in another game, yet he takes no notice at how I've been acting that way to other people instead.

[Potack-ruv]

Well why are you so special that I have to act a certain way towards you?

[Potack-ruv]

A) I'm feeling too lazy to do analysing.
B) You know I like to use gut, and that's mainly what my read on you consists of.

[Potack-ruv]

Again, I haven't been paying attention to any of your posts in D1. What I said yesterday was loosely based on what I remembered from reading your posts. I really don't remember if half of what I said other than having a gut read on you was true or not. I really cannot expand any further on my read of you other than gut.

[Potack-ruv]

Eh, good enough for me.
VOTE: McStab

[Potack-ruv]

I've already made mention that I will only vote Chrimi as a sort of policy lynch based on him having not really done anything. I haven't seen anything scummy enough from him to convince me to vote him anyway.

Make a case and maybe I'll be swayed.

[Potack-ruv]

GUYS IT'S ACRV'S BIRTHDAY TODAY.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ACRV

[Potack-ruv]

Eh, it's not really worth my time responding to you. If you're town you should hopefully come to your senses to realise how obvtown I am.

[Potack-ruv]

Guys,
I know my reads have been shit this game,
So let me have some time to get them up to speed.

In other words, I am going to do a triple ISO with different people against Chrimi and RD.

[Potack-ruv]

Did Tech give reasons for those reads?

[Potack-ruv]

Gunny.
Don't be an idiot, you know I'm town.

Why is the rolefishing scummy? What reasons was there not to have all the Masons claim then?
As scum I would have obviously picked that softclaim up and would have NK'ed Techno N1.

Soben was town if Chrimi was scum because there were only three scum alive, and there can't be 4 scum in my reads.

I wasn't just oblivious to Chrimi, I was oblivious to basically everyone. Only my top scumreads are the people I'm actually paying attention to what they post. That is a completely null-point.

Asking you to "confirm" being a Mason with andrew was not scummy at all. The constant buddying between you two was highly obvious, and it connected you two together lot. All the talk about you two being scum was distracting the town, so if you guys were confirmed the town would have basically shut up about it and would have actually been able to find scum.

PEDIT: RP, I already stated I thought Gunny was town after he was proved not-mason.

[Potack-ruv]

My main request today though, is that

I don't want to be lynched until AcRv actually gets a chance to post.

Maybe he could knock some sense into you guys.

PEDIT: Yes you do. You have played with me enough to not be making mistakes like these. You know my meta better than anyone else here.

[Potack-ruv]

You know I would never put anywhere near as much effort into attacking my scumreads as I have done this game if I were scum.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm personally not going to put much dependence on Aru being town because I won my first game as scum and in that game I bussed and lynched my only buddy on D1.
PEDIT: So wait, you still haven't realised I'm a narcissist?

[Potack-ruv]

Wait, revelation!
VOTE: Red Panda
Last game I was in when I was on the lynch block for having bad reads, the person pushing that attack was scum.

[Potack-ruv]

Read this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4142898

Then this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4151837

This supports my claim that RP is scum.

[Potack-ruv]

Gunny can confirm that this happened too. In case you guys can't be bothered reading.

PEDIT: So wait, I'm not allowed to change my mind?

[Potack-ruv]

Wouldn't I be trying to fake consistency if I were scum?

PEDIT: Ha.

[Potack-ruv]

It's justified. Call it an OMGUS all you want, but you can't doubt that it's completely justified and backed up with evidence.

[Potack-ruv]

Lrn2read.
I asked you a question.

[Potack-ruv]

Me: *asks question*
You: "OH MAN THIS IS BAD LYNCH WITH FIRE PLZ"

This is seriously not flying with me.

[Potack-ruv]

If this town is stupid enough to lynch me, then you must all superduperfuckingturbo-lynch RP.

PEDIT:

I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT I WOULD DO AS SCUM, I'M ASKING IF THAT WOULD BE WHAT SCUM WOULD LOGICALLY DO.

[Potack-ruv]

STOP FUCKING TRYING TO AVOID MY QUESTIONS. JUST FUCKING ANSWER THEM.

[Potack-ruv]

I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT SCUM WOULD LOGICALLY DO. I'M ASKING YOU IF YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE LOGICAL.

Pedit: Open 412.2, Open 397 and Open 404. Are my most recent ones.

[Potack-ruv]

KEYWORDS RP.
THE KEYWORDS ARE:

I'M. ASKING. YOU.

[Potack-ruv]

THAT ISN'T EVEN A REAL ANSWER.
YOU'RE USING "I don't know" AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO ELABORATE, AND ALSO SO YOU CAN CONTINUE USING IT TO JUMP ON ME.

PEDIT: Gunny voting me is a big mistake. He should know very well I'm town.

[Potack-ruv]

VE. Vote RP.

[Potack-ruv]

TAM, I see you there.
Vote RP.

Gunny, you too should vote RP.

[Potack-ruv]

If we lynch RP, and for some magical reason he flips town. I will let you guys turbolynch me so hard I can't even say "fuck".

PEDIT: YOU TWO, VOTE RP.

PEDIT AGAIN: NO, IT IS NOT A REAL ANSWER. DON'T YOU DARE FUCKING HIDE BEHIND A WALL OF WAFFLES. YOU AND ME, 1V1 THIS WILL FUCKING END RIGHT HERE.
I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU PRODUCE A CASE ON ME.
I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU GIVE A VALID REASON FOR VOTING ME.
I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU EVEN TRY TO REFUTE MY REASON FOR YOU BEING SCUM.

[Potack-ruv]

GUYS, IT'S ME OR RP TODAY. YOU EITHER LYNCH ME, WHO HAS ACTUALLY TRIED TO FIND SCUM, AND HASN'T BEEN LURKING INTO OBLIVION, OR YOU LYNCH RP WHO LITERALLY JUST COOKED UP A BULLSHIT CASE ON ME BECAUSE THERE IS HIGH CHANCE OF ME GETTING LYNCHED TODAY.

[Potack-ruv]

Here's the thing Gunny, the argument he's using to get me lynched is an argument which is highly beneficial to scum. It also works especially well on me because I always exude confidence in myself and my reads.
The reason why, is that my reads being wrong could easily be twisted into me faking confidence to get people mislynched as scum, plus it's also a hard thing to refute when used against you as an attack.

[Potack-ruv]

He as scum would want that so much. He knows people have slowly been changing their read on me from town to scum, so he's using this as the perfect chance to pull off a mislynch on me.

PEDIT: If it's so easy for me to get lynched because of you, then why the fuck am I 1v1'ing you?

YOU BEING PART OF A SCUM LYNCH DOES NOT CLEAR YOU IN ANYWAY. YOU'RE USING INSIDE KNOWLEDGE TO PRETEND TO FIND THE SCUM AND THEN USING THE SCUM LYNCHES YOU WERE ON AS A WAY TO PARADE AROUND AND BE "OBVTOWNY".

PEDIT: DO IT VE. FUCKING VOTE FOR RP.

Pedit: What does me failing have to do with ANYTHING?

YOU'RE USING ME BEING WRONG AS YOUR MAIN REASON TO GET A LYNCH ON ME. EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES, SO WHY DOES MINE MAKE ME SCUM?

[Potack-ruv]

WHAT DOES IT FUCKING MATTER HOW EASY IT IS FOR YOU TO GET ME LYNCHED?

PEDIT: WHAT DOES IT FUCKING MATTER IF YOU WERE ON A SCUM LYNCH?

[Potack-ruv]

Final Vote Count:

Vote Count 1.16

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

RainbowDash

(7): Lynch

- Code_X, VisceraEyes, RedPanda, Soben, Drmyshotgun, RainbowDash, TeChNoWC

RainbowDash the

Mafia Goon

has been lynched.

You have(expired on 2012-07-03 03:25:00) to submit your night actions.

HEY LOOK, RD WAS ON A SCUM LYNCH TOO. RD MUST BE TOWN.

[Potack-ruv]

WHAT DOES YOU BEING READ AS OBVTOWNIE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?

READS. CHANGE.

[Potack-ruv]

WHY AM I OBVSCUM? I AM PROVIDING LOGICAL ARGUMENTS WHICH YOU ONLY SEEM TO WANT TO DISCREDIT BY NOT EVEN BOTHERING TO REFUTE THEM AND INSTEAD JUST CONTINUE TO BASELESSLY CALL ME OBVSCUM.

[Potack-ruv]

READING YOUR POSTS WILL DO LITERALLY NOTHING.
YOU HAVE DONE JACK-SHIT THIS GAME, AND HAVE COASTED THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH.
THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO YOUR NAME IS BEING ON BOTH THE SCUM LYNCHES, BUT EVEN THEN THAT ISN'T INCREDIBLE.

PEDIT: HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH THE DISCREDITING. HE ISN'T EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THE REASONS I'M USING, AND INSTEAD HE JUST WRITES IT OFF AS OMGUS INSTEAD OF REFUTING ME.

[Potack-ruv]

GUNNY, JUST FUCKING VOTE RP.

[Potack-ruv]

Hmm,
Everyone not RP - solid town read

And who's left?
Yeah, that's you RP.

Town hunting works.

[Potack-ruv]

NO
NO BACKING OUT OF THIS NOW GUNNY
NO FUCKING SPECULATING WITH ANYTHING LIKE THAT UNLESS RP FLIPS TOWN (WHICH HE WON'T).

[Potack-ruv]

HOW IS IT TRUE?

STOP MAKNIG BASELESS ACCUSATIONS AND ACTUALLY PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE FOR ONCE.

[Potack-ruv]

THIS IS MY TOWN PLAYSTYLE.
YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THIS TOO.
WE PLAYED TOGETHER BEFORE.

[Potack-ruv]

THIS ARGUMENT RIGHT NOW IS MY TOWNIEST MOMENT.
EVERYONE'S READS ARE FUCKING CHANGING.
MY TOWNINESS IS SHINING SO FUCKING HARD.
IT WILL OVERWHELM YOU WITHOUT A DOUBT.

WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONE TO MAKE YOU TOWN?

PEDIT: YES, MY PLAYSTYLES ARE REALLY DIFFERENT. I LURK MORE AS SCUM, AND ONLY PARTICIPATE WHEN I'M DIRECTLY INVOLVED. AS TOWN I LIKE TO BE A BEACON OF TOWNINESS AND I ALWAYS GO WAY OVERBOARD WITH MY QUESTIONS. PLUS I AM WAAAAYYY MORE INVOLVED WITH THE GAME AS TOWN. TO THE POINT OF REPLACING OUT DUE TO PEOPLE NOT LISTENING TO ME.

[Potack-ruv]

Yes there is.
The fact that you left obv-scum you out of that list to make it seem like I was the only one left.

PEDIT: NO YOU FUCKING WON'T. READ MY ARGUMENTS INSTEAD OF JUST SUMMARISING THE WHOLE THING. IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH YOU WILL SEE HOW RP IS JUST COASTING ON HIS SUPPOSEDLY "OBVTOWNIE" STATUS TO GET ME MISLYNCHED. I AM ACTUALLY GOING AGAINST EVERYONE AND TRYING TO GET MY SCUMREAD LYNCHED, INSTEAD OF JUST VOTING WITH EVERYONE ELSE.

[Potack-ruv]

MY READS WERE WRONG.

SO. FUCKING. WHAT?

[Potack-ruv]

YOUR READS "WERE" RIGHT.
KEYWORD IS "WERE".

[Potack-ruv]

IT MEANS YOU READS WERE RIGHT BEFORE, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW I'M NOT SCUM.

[Potack-ruv]

THEN PROVIDE REASONS.
INSTEAD
OF
JUST
CALLING
ME
SCUM
AND
NOTHING
ELSE

[Potack-ruv]

I'M ONLY SCUM BY POE TO YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM AND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO INCLUDE YOURSELF.

[Potack-ruv]

If RP flips town due to magical fairy dust interfereing with the flips, then Code_X is scum. But I cannot be sure of that until RP gets lynched.

PEDIT: What is my scum motivation for all of those?

[Potack-ruv]

Wouldn't I want to be on the scum wagons for towncred?
Wouldn't I want to use a different argument so I don't look like scum?
Wouldn't I not want to vote you to avoid OMGUS accusations?
Wouldn't I not AtE by fear of being called out?

BUT HEY, I DON'T CARE ABOUT DOING ALL THESE THINGS BECAUSE I'M TOWN AND I JUST WANT TO FUCKING GET YOU LYNCHED.

Pedit: My playstyle is very distinct. JUST FUCKING READ MY META.

Pedit: Yes, feel free to lynch me all you want if RP flips town. It could potentially be a two for one deal if you buy from me.

[Potack-ruv]

I am like seriously so fucking pissed right now and I am actually so fucking close to not bothering to participate in this game anymore.

I better go cool off now before shit gets worse.

[Potack-ruv]

The last time I was the only scum left in a game I was complaining about how people shouldn't lynch me while I parked my vote on someone.

Just thought I should say that. Open 404 is the game I'm referrencing btw.

[Potack-ruv]

Okay, I'd like to see your reaction once you lynch a third scum.
VOTE: Potack-Ruv
If this is what it takes to get you lynched, then I'm all for it.

I just hope everyone promises to give RP death when I die.

[Potack-ruv]

I've been sidetracked with other games and the meatworld.

BTW, AcRv is finally here and expect a post from him soon.

[Potack-ruv]

Plus I generally don't like reading up during the night phase. I only ever reread when making cases during the day.

[Potack-ruv]

Okay, looking through game (I've not really gotten back in touch with this that much since coming back...) but first thing's first UNVOTE: Potack-ruv

I'm going to check what the heck actually happened now, but just seeing that in my ISO on a skim really made me think "what the heck is going on here?"

[Potack-ruv]

EBWOP: Also admiring the all caps rage... what did you guys do to Ommy? (sorry for quad post, felt the need to point that out)

[Potack-ruv]

AcRv still here, not a lot of time, but a few quick things:

Potack-ruv - He hasn't gone after Rainbow or Chrimi, he refuses to acknowledge Chrimi being obvscum today (not wanting to lose both scumpartners in two days)

Find it funny how you assume the guy who gives all caps rages isn't beyond pushing his scummy buddy under a bus.

Really, going and saying "you wouldn't bus/you would bus" seems kinda null to me. Because let's face it - scum do whatever they can to stay alive. And bussing buddies is a brilliant way to do it, ESPECIALLY when they're already going down.

RedPanda, can you link me to a town game of yours? I would look myself but I have very little energy at the moment. But I just want to check something.

Sorry for having so very little, I'm kinda tired and haven't read as much of the game as I should have, but hopefully I'll have more time tomorrow... if there's anything you specifically want me to comment on, can you say what those things are to make my job easier when I wake up?

[Potack-ruv]

AcRv here again, actually reading this time.

WHOA. The things you miss when you go see Spiderman.

My main request today though, is that

I don't want to be lynched until AcRv actually gets a chance to post.

Maybe he could knock some sense into you guys.

PEDIT: Yes you do. You have played with me enough to not be making mistakes like these. You know my meta better than anyone else here.

Scummy. You are depending on AcRv to come up with some defense because you can't on your own.

You've never been in a hydra, have you? To come back and find that you've been lynched and you had no control over it really sucks. It's called common courtesy. Much like you don't lynch people who are V/LA.

If RP flips town due to magical fairy dust interfereing with the flips, then Code_X is scum. But I cannot be sure of that until RP gets lynched.

PEDIT: What is my scum motivation for all of those?

But you said that we would lynch you if RedPanda flipped town...

...

Yes, feel free to lynch me all you want if RP flips town. It could potentially be a two for one deal if you buy from me.

"Feel free to lynch me" and "Lynch me" aren't the same thing... put them together it's basically a "I think it's Code_X, but if you want to lynch me first then whatever."

But Can you tell me what this is all about.

Wait wait, there are 3 masons according to the OP who operate as a team is what it looks like to me.

We really need some clarity from the Mason claims.

Fuck this, it's mason claim time imo.

We have 2 mason claims (shotgun, Andrew) when there should be 3 masons. Only the third mason knows if the first two are telling the truth, so I think the third mason shoud claim.

TAM seems to be soft-claiming third mason, but I'm tired of this shit. We need hard claims to sort out this mess. Anyone opposed?

I can't imagine the third is like, a recruiting mason or anything (too powerful imo, ymmv) so I can't think of a good reason why the third isn't confirming claims so we can get down to the business of lynching scums.

Hey if we have a mason death N1 and N2, killing the third mason's partners, then what is the advantage of not having a mason death N3? At that point the third mason is just another VT right? Unless there's some sort of recruiting mechanic?

I honestly don't see a downside at this point, and it would clear up a LOT of junk.

Are you pretending to be a newb?

... Viscera, why didn't you acknowledge this post? I saw that Red Panda already picked him up on it, but that's not the only thing he missed:

Oh doctor my doctor.

Oh doctor my doctor.

Yes?

No response given to that either.

you're scum by POE.

May I ask why VisceraEyes is town? The way you dismissed VE from you POE doesn't seem very strong to me... scum told people to lay off the wagon, so that means he's town? The POE leaves you, Viscera, and us.

you're scum for staying out of two scum wagons.

I think assuming that we wouldn't bus is a long shot.

You're scum for using the same arguments that both scum used,.

Can you show me which arguments you're referring to?

You're scum for OMGUSing me.

Because, y'know, we would totally fake something like that when we're the last in our faction and would be pretty darn suspicious.

You're scum for ATEing.

People lose their temper. Rage is null. Always. It can just as easily be faked as it can be real.

As for reads... shotgun's mason claim seems like on heck of a gambit to try as scum, so I'm assuming he's town.

I think scum is either VisceraEyes or Red Panda... I'm leaning towards Viscera, but Ommy's saying Panda. So I think I'll hold the vote back for now.

[Potack-ruv]

I agree with VE-scum because I swear he was trying to suck up to me when he voted RP with me, but this only works if RP flips town. Which means I could flip either way based on who's going to be lynched.

This day is now between VE, RP, and I (if you guys are surprisingly still considering lynching us).

[Potack-ruv]

Eh, might as well.
VOTE: Viscera Eyes


I keep asking AcRv to do something, but he's not responding

[Potack-ruv]

RP, if you're scum, why don't you just vote VE so we can get him out of the way?
RP, if you're town, why don't you just vote VE so we can see which alignment he is?

We barely use our QT anyway, as we do most of our stuff on Skype. I've been telling him to read up, and to make a few cases but lately he hasn't been responding as much.

Really, how is this scum hydra'ing when this is waaaayyyyy more pro-town hydra'ing than when I hydra'd with DGB (and in that game I was also town)?

[Potack-ruv]

I mean seriously, the fact I knew AcRv was here before he actually posted means we have definitely been communicating.

You're seriously reaching big time, and if you are town then you must suck horribly.

[Potack-ruv]

DGB was forcing me to scumhunt, AcRv wasn't even here during the night phase, so I had nobody to force me to do anything.


Look at my fucking meta.

Then tell me I'm not playing to my town meta.

You know how I've been town this game?
I've kept my activity high all game.
I've been scumhunting during the day, which is always when I would do it as town.
I've been pushing my scumreads to get them lynched.

What have you done?
You were on both scum wagons.
You have been pushing 1 of your scumreads (me) (but even then you haven't even been making good attacks).

PEDIT: Lynching me won't do any good, so why not lynch him instead?

[Potack-ruv]

I am actually so invested at this game to the point that I'm close to not playing anymore because people are trying to lynch me. If that ain't fucking town behaviour, then I have no fucking idea what is.

I am never this invested as scum. Full-fucking-stop.

[Potack-ruv]

Hey look, if we're so obvscum, then why are you considering other people's alignments without our flip?
I mean, hey, I at least took your potential flips into consideration. If you flip town, then VE is scum, if VE flips town then you are confirmed scum.

[Potack-ruv]

It really looks to me like you need to think of other targets to pursue incase you actually do get us mislynched.

[Potack-ruv]

READ MY FUCKING META. MY TOWN PLAYSTYLE AND MY SCUM PLAYSTYLE ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. JUST FUCKING TAKE A LOOK AT MY META AND YOU WILL SEE. YOUR RELUCTANCE TO ACTUALLY BE BOTHERED TO LOOK AT MY META IN CASE IT MIGHT CLEAR ME IS SOMETHING ONLY SUCM WOULD DO.

[Potack-ruv]

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS.

SCUM GAME:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4116522

SCUM GAME:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22365

TOWN GAME:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22230

TOWN GAME:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22111

TOWN GAME:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22156

[Potack-ruv]

BELIEVE ME, I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE MY META, BUT I HAVE A FUCKING HARD TIME TRYING.

[Potack-ruv]

AND NO, I WILL NOT STOP DOING THAT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY

LISTEN TO ME

.

PEDIT: NO, I AM NOT BEHVAING LIKE SCUM.

TAKE A FUCKING LOOK AT HOW I'VE BEHAVED THIS GAME AND MY TOWNINESS WILL FUCKING SHINE RIGHT THROUGH.

[Potack-ruv]

YOU AREN'T EVEN GIVING ME A CHANCE TO CLEAR MY NAME. YOU'RE DELIBERATELY IGNORING MY ATTEMPTS TO CLEAR MYSELF TO DISCREDIT ME AND MAKE IT LOOK LIKE MY DEFENSES AREN'T WORTH ANYTHING.
THIS
IS
WHAT
IS
CALLED
SCUM
BEHAVIOUR

[Potack-ruv]

My capslock rages have a track record of actually hitting scum.

My first Newbie game: I caps raged at someone and replaced out because everyone was being really stupid, the person I was raging at flipped scum.

Open 395: People were trying to lynch me but I saw scum based on one of the attacks he tried to wagon me with. I caps raged at him because nobody was listening to me, I got lynched, he died the next day and flipped scum.

Open 413: I caps raged at mcqueen for the attack I said RP used earlier in-thread. He won the game as scum because everyone was stupid and lynched someone else instead.

[Potack-ruv]

No, I asked AcRv to see if he could find connections between RP and the dead scum, or VE and the dead scum. I'll let him do it.

[Potack-ruv]

Oh wait, I forgot Open 399 where I caps raged at someone and then they ended up flipping scum again.

[Potack-ruv]

tried to lynch shotgun day 1. only backed away when you believed he was a mason.

So you think I should have kept on attacking a Mason? Bullshit.

then you went after mcstab etc.. etc..

And what about it?

disappeared when rainbowdash was getting lynched.

I had nothing to say? So what?

called the lynch on chrimi a policy lynch.

I didn't see why he was scummy.

So lets just assume right here that your reads have been terrible till now.

Till now, my point exactly.

After chrimi gets lynched what would a player who apparently is the beacon of townieness do.
He reads the game during the night phase discusses with his hydra partner about who the last scum is.

No, I play the game by memory, only reading up when I absolutely have to. This is my playstyle no matter what alignment.

I don't have a hydra partner and I did it. I reread code_x and shotgun to make sure that my solid town read on them was justified.

Did I have to do it?

I analyzed the wagons. found the best suspect and its you and I want you lynched.

Where is this analysis?

and then you begin the day not by telling us that you reread and now you think this person is scum.

I never reread unless I absolutely have to. Just wait, I'll get some meta to back this up.

you began the day giving excuses about your performance and then asked for more time to reread.

Because I actually had an objective then. I completely forgot about this game during the night phase.

And then when I called you scum.
You OMGUSED me.

Sure, if you want to call it that. I call it a vote on scum though.

Om thought I was obv town till I started calling him scum.

And hes using one tell which mcqueen used from someother game. and apparently that tell is used by only scum.
And the tell is Only scum would call somebody scum for being shitty at catching scum.

This is ridiculous even for om.

The point is, I caught scum with it.

And this is the shitty logic om.

its really bad even for you.

why should I magically change my read on you? because you keep telling me to? because you're using meta?

I'm not telling you to change your read. I'm actually telling you to read me and everything I'm saying. You keep writing me off as scum without anymore consideration. Which is something you wouldn't be doing if you are actually rereading as much as you say you are doing.

[Potack-ruv]

I have been defending myself, yes.
The point is, I have been attacking people too.

You are deliberately omitting the facts that hurt your case to make you attacks sound stronger.

[Potack-ruv]

VOTE: Red Panda
I cannot be fucking bothered wasting my energy on a VE lynch now. RP is confirmed scum from my POV.

[Potack-ruv]

I mean I liked the om vs shotgun fight.

Lol.
Inconsistencies.

[Potack-ruv]

Ugh, frankly I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore.

My points still stand, you're still scum.
Everyone should listen to me, or they will face my wrath post-game.

PEDIT: You attacked me for backing off from shotgun.

PEDIT AGAIN: Why don't you try reading my meta? Why is Panda town?

[Potack-ruv]

But if I'm scum then wouldn't having me in the spotlight be a good thing?

I mean, you're certainly fine with keeping today all about you and me? So why was it bad back then?

[Potack-ruv]

This is my towny playstyle.
This is how I catch scum.
My reads may not have been the best so far in this game.
But I do have a good record for catching scum.

Like how generally my gut is alwys the best at catching scum during LYLO (I have like 5 games that can back that up).

My play is generally swingy, and I think when I use logic my reads are worst.
Which is probably why this game has had bad reads so far.


He started the game actively scumhunting. Has he continued to do so?
I'm not afraid to bus as scum. Even if it means lynching my only buddy (which happened in 412.2 which I linked earlier).
I've been expressing my reads, haven't I? I even got attacked for doing it too much.
So you agree with his thoughts, why does that make him town?
And then finally you end the paragraph with something that can be considered scummy. Well done, I'm completely convinced that RP is 100% town.

[Potack-ruv]

I've been looking for townreads too.
POE of all my town reads leaves RP and VE.

[Potack-ruv]

So?
If I'm scum now, wouldn't I have still been scum at the beginning of the game?

Did my alignment change halfway through the game or something?

[Potack-ruv]

Take your own advice. Maybe then you'd stop trying to attack me with bullshit.

[Potack-ruv]

ALSO HEY GUYS.
ACRV RESPONDED.
HE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE GAME SOON.

[Potack-ruv]

So my Day 1 playstyle made me look town.
Yet here you argue my playstyle isn't town.

What changed?

[Potack-ruv]

There are some playstyles which make people think you're town. yours is an example. Mine is an example also.

So you basically just admitted that you may not be town. Cool, thanks.

What changed is the way you've played the game.

not lynching scum.

Because lynching scum would have totally cleared me.

behaving like a scum hydra.

How does a scum hydra behave?

not scumhunting at night especially when your reads were proven wrong.

Reading through my meta will tell you I don't read at night anyway.

OMGUSING with shitty logic.

Why is it shitty? Are you just annoyed I compared you to mcqueen?

ATEing.

Why is this scummy?

And my analysis of everybody else.

So because you said someone is town, they must be town? Okay then, you said I was town D1, so I must be town.

[Potack-ruv]

He started the game actively scumhunting. Has he continued to do so?

Yep.

Has he really? The most scumhunting he ever did was with TAM, which he quickly abandoned. Everything else has just been accusing people and bragging about how town he is.

I've been expressing my reads, haven't I?

Yep despite them being pretty shocking. Not suggesting you haven't been expressing reads - in the context of the game they've been bad ones.

My point is, you're calling him town based on something I've been doing too.

So you agree with his thoughts, why does that make him town?

Because I'm town. I agree with a lot he says. I can see a lot of things he says as being things I'd say as such he's town.

Maybe you're just thinking with a scum mindset

------

You say he's 100% scum but in all honesty your whole case boils down to a large dollop of angry OMGUS.

OMGUS or not, it's completely right.

And Panda makes a pretty decent case for having you lynched. Just nagging at me that VE is the final scum.

So because someone made a good case, someone completely different is scum?

[Potack-ruv]

Everyone answer this

If I offer to lynch myself, will you all lynch RP tomorrow?
1 of us has to be scum. And if this actually ends up as town V town then VE is almost confirmed scum.

Lynching me, then following my lynch list will probably end up in auto-win, unless the last scum played a superb game.

[Potack-ruv]

Vote chrimi

If I was scum, I obviously would not have defended rbi because it would be an obvious scum buddy tell. If I were scum, I would bus all the way- I suggest you meta my scum games.

1) I could have tried to lynch... TAM, DMS, andrew, VE... all had some flack and I could easily whip up something quick on why they are scum if I wanted to. Im taking about the path of most resistnace possible at this point because I think you are all wrong for the most part.

Come on.

Don't keep telling us what you would have done if you were scum.

I don't listen to arguments like that.

I've already made mention that I will only vote Chrimi as a sort of policy lynch based on him having not really done anything. I haven't seen anything scummy enough from him to convince me to vote him anyway.

Make a case and maybe I'll be swayed.

I don't need your vote to get him lynched.

I just noticed this.
I thought you were one of the main pushers for the Chrimi lynch?
These are all your posts about lynching Chrimi D2.

Where is all the attacking and the pushing? I thought you said you were doing all that?

[Potack-ruv]

I will not stop pushing him until you can explain this and I deem it right.

I'm not expecting you to stop.

Keep going on.

But I want something extra.

some scumhunting on other players.

because what I have is pretty convincing.

Also hey look here. You wanted me to continue attacking shotgun.
You also said I should do some more scumhunting on

other

players.
This implies you thought I was scumhunting.

[Potack-ruv]

One thing I did notice, however small, is a potential slip of the tongue by Venmar:

"- There are probably a couple instances in games that i have ongoing, but if you want you can read Open 399, that is my latest completed game. Luckily for you i also played as scum there, so feel free to get some kind of a scum meta, but that was my first time playing as scum so i doubt it is as reliable."


Also? I don't think it really fits in the rest of the sentence, and could be a slip of the tongue pertaining to this game. I would like others views on this however, perhaps I am just putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong words when reading that, but it stuck out to me.

good work

Vote Venmar

also
Also
ALSO

You attacked me for not scumhunting.
"Also" implies I was scumhunting.

[Potack-ruv]

BTw, that quote was supposed to be in another post.
It quotes the most obvious bus ever.

[Potack-ruv]

I like how you tell everyone to sheep you.
Yet you sheeped other people.

[Potack-ruv]

@Gunny: Exactly. I'm using his logic to show how shitty it is.

RP keeps bragging about how obvtown he is.
So far, he's sheeped people.
He's constantly kept his reasons vague.
He makes bullshit attacks.
He is manipulating the facts to make him appear town.

Wow RP, you really are obvtown.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm one of those people who likes to policy lynch people who ask useless questions

Why were you attacking me for calling the Chrimi lynch a policy lynch when you were willing to policy lynch someone early in the game?
Don't give me any of this "reaction test" bullshit either.

[Potack-ruv]

I'm not backing out of anything, I'm simply waiting for everyone else's responses.

[Potack-ruv]

@Gunny:

Everyone answer this

If I offer to lynch myself, will you all lynch RP tomorrow?
1 of us has to be scum. And if this actually ends up as town V town then VE is almost confirmed scum.

Lynching me, then following my lynch list will probably end up in auto-win, unless the last scum played a superb game.

[Potack-ruv]

if it can't help either side, then its pretty much useless not helpful isn't it?

Why post something useless and unhelpful in a game?

- How does this make TAM scummy? You're kind of clearly policy lynching now rather than scum lynching.

I'm sorry.

2 pages into the game and you want me to give you reasons more than that?

if he becomes useful. I'm going to take my vote from him.

If he doesn't then its blood.

This clearly shows you want him lynched because he's supposedly useless. You don't even care if he's scum.

[Potack-ruv]

if it can't help either side, then its pretty much useless not helpful isn't it?

Why post something useless and unhelpful in a game?

- How does this make TAM scummy? You're kind of clearly policy lynching now rather than scum lynching.

I'm sorry.

2 pages into the game and you want me to give you reasons more than that?

if he becomes useful. I'm going to take my vote from him.

If he doesn't then its blood.

And he has more than enough content now to start being useful

So you use the game size as an excuse for not being able to provide content, yet the very next post you attack someone for not providing content when there is enough already?

[Potack-ruv]

I refuse to answer your scum questions the acting method.

vote Acting method.

Also I'm claiming vanilla town.

Lets all vote for acting method and then talk about my amazing role.

This is an example of RP holding back his reasons for his reads.

- Could you explain to me how The Acting Method's two questions could possibly help or aid the scum in ANY way?

Can you explain to me how The acting method's two questions could possibly hep or aid the town in ANY way?

This is a great example of deflecting the question so he doesn't have to come up with an answer.

[Potack-ruv]

I only drive policy lynches on lurkers/inactives if there are one or two scenarios. The main one is:. They are posting elsewhere and ACTIVELY ignoring the game. If you aren't posting in any of the games you are in, that's one thing... If you are posting in All of your games save one, and you are not dead in that game that's scummy. Or at least anti town.

So you are policy lynching me, for asking two questions because I like an active game because it's easier to catch scum that way? And could you at least answer the first one? At least it gives a time frame of when to expect an answer from you if you have a question asked at you.

If somebody posts in other games and doesn't post here. people are going to notice and call them out for it.

your questions are pointless and unnecessary.

I post when I post.

And yeah you're still not being useful.

stop defending yourself.
Start catching scum

Holding back reasons again.

Okay RedPanda, explain this. Besides me, only 4 people have posted anything. Yet you expect me to start scumhunting this early?

good you're a smart cookie.
UNVOTE:

But I thought he was scum? Why the sudden backing out?

hehe

this is fun.

Let the drama skyrocket.

I will be back later to clean up the mess and catch scum.

Hey look Gunny, RP was trying to fuel the fire too.

And explain how I'm trying to push you? I'm pushing at your motivation. I don't see how it helps town. Weren't you just complaining about moves that don't help Town?

I'm not saying you are pushing me to reveal it.

I'm just saying pushing me to reveal it is wrong.


It helped me. Maybe you don't understand it.

but I know What I'm doing.

What was the point of saying it then? If he wasn't doing it, then why did you mention it?

RP, vote Gunny and I will switch. Otherwise, vote bork if you aren't already.

actually I have early town reads on the both of them based on certain things.

Holding back reasons.

I'll tell you after everybody joins in the discussion.

Holding back reasons plus stalling it out.

shotgun is confirmed town. I'm 100% sure of this. its because of something hes done in this thread. I don't want to elaborate on this. I'll play this card when the time is right.

Holding back reasons plus stalling it out.

I guess what I'm saying is we should probably start focusing on other players who haven't posted that much yet. I can see the you v DrMy argument dominating day 1 and could allow scum to lurk and watch the town burn. That would be bad. I quickly iso'd people and there are probably what, at least 4 slots who haven't posted yet. Let's try and get them involved :3.

Also this.

I mean I liked the om vs shotgun fight.

But stop trying to make it all about the both of you today.

Hypocrisy. He's telling me not to make it about Gunny and I, but now he's perfectly fine with it just being about the two of us today.

hotgun is confirmed town. I'm 100% sure of this. its because of something hes done in this thread. I don't want to elaborate on this. I'll play this card when the time is right.

okay this sounds stupid.

shotgun is TOWN. I'm pretty sure about this.

Its because of something hes done in this thread.

The first person to tell me what it is gets a prize.

Holding back reasons yet again.

One thing I did notice, however small, is a potential slip of the tongue by Venmar:

"- There are probably a couple instances in games that i have ongoing, but if you want you can read Open 399, that is my latest completed game. Luckily for you

i also played as scum there

, so feel free to get some kind of a scum meta, but that was my first time playing as scum so i doubt it is as reliable."


Also? I don't think it really fits in the rest of the sentence, and could be a slip of the tongue pertaining to this game. I would like others views on this however, perhaps I am just putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong words when reading that, but it stuck out to me.

- Interesting point. I admit it phrased that kind of weirdly, but when writing that, i was thinking in the sense of ( thinking in my mind. ) -"

also, to add

"- I am not sure if that makes sense, but regarding that post i felt like the need to add on the fact that i played as scum in that game would help clear some things up, and make the read more interesting since someone could get a feel for how i play as scum. Basically, i was adding on a point to the main part of the post, and way i worded it is how i presented that. Does that make sense..?

Okay lets look at it from our POV.
it looks like a scumslip.
But yeah I'm willing to reconsider.
If you stop giving excuses for that slip
and start catching scum.
or atleast being useful to the game.

So then why did you vote him if you don't completely believe it? I'm sure someone as experienced as you calim to be would have known that wasn't a real scumslip. Also notice the hypocrisy with how he tells Venmar to stop giving excuses, yet RP was giving excuses to not out his reasons for the Gunny town read.

I will not stop pushing him until you can explain this and I deem it right.

I'm not expecting you to stop.

Keep going on.

But I want something extra.

some scumhunting on other players.

because what I have is pretty convincing.

Moar holdan bak reesouns.

RP, are you willing to do a bork lynch?

I'm not ready for anything yet.

not until absta and chrimi start interacting with us.

Stalling.

I just tried to read all of that... So much fluff it's killing me.

Alright, Alright, I'll try harder >.>

Before I do...

drmyshotgun, it's too bad we lost that last game as scum together, I'm sorry I messed that up for us :/

Anyways, I'll probably read when my head isn't falling off my body...

Listen you're stalling the game.

Why do you join games if you can't play it?

Lol hypocrisy.

Fun Fact: This is one of the only two attacks that RP had done towards Chrimi.

. look at it this way - do you ACTUALLY think scum would go and say "I was scum in this other game like I am now."?

that's why its called a slip.

This doesn't even answer the question.

Also

Andrew

- In your next post I want you to point out what makes you think Shotgun is 100% town and explain it in some detail.

Actually I'd like to know this also because most people don't have an eye out for the stuff I'm talking about.

Lol, here he is bragging about his experience again.

For now:
VOTE: Absta's replacement
Literally every comment from him has just been cantankerousness about hydras and formatting. I see scum more likely to 'take his ball and go home' like that than town.

I totally agree.

I think both venmar and absta are scum replacing out.

But based on the way they replaced out I think Absta is more likely to be scum

Unvote vote Absta's replacement

Shitty wagon jump. This sounds so opportunistic.

Okay I'm going to go first.

Because I'm going to be V/LA from tomorrow.

I had an early town read on shotgun based on his reaction to my VT claim.

Most of the case on shotgun is because people think his case sucks.

This is a generalization of the whole case which basically omits the majority of the points raised against Gunny at that time.

But case sucky does not equal scum.

What made me confident in my town read on him was this

Probably because he's so sure of my guilt? I dunno.
*shrug*

VOTE: drmyshotgun
Bye bye.

UNVOTE:
Lol jokes.
This might get me blacklisted.

VOTE: Potack

Why Potack is scum:
Following the trend with claiming VT without commenting anything about it is scummy because it shows you are just doing what others are doing.
You did it without hesitating in your first post that means you rushed into this.
Town would have given second thoughts about this or at least asked around.
THere were only handful of players at that time.

Giving out alignments like free candies (which you didn't deny to btw) is scummy because it misdirects people.
It can tell a person: Whoa, this guy is goood. What this guy says must be true!!
This might not be the case for most of us but it is sort of faking your confidence and expertise of the game.
With virtually not much to get reads from you saying this and that with that much sureness can only mean that you are Scum already in full knowledge of one's alignment.

You say Soben is Town in your post #101.
This is actually being a hypocrite when you look at the post #106 you made.
I tried explaining things with what I have yet you try to tackle every single one of my reads?
Almost all of them pretty much ends with: "Why is this that?"-esque questions.
They look rhetoric, so I won't answer any of them.

AcRv actually does nothing to undo Potack's scumminess.
Looks like he's just keeping his vote on me because changing it would hurt them.
I certainly don't feel his: "comfort" from Potack's previous posts.
His posts sounds like assuring that what Om has done is alright for him. When it actually isn't.

Potack (Om mostly) and I can't be Town together in this game. Therefore either one of us is Scum. I am Town, ergo Om is Scum.
Well, I can't guarantee that he's scum, but right now I want one of us dead.
I'll yield if I have to, should the Town decide on me, since I'm in 11 games right now.

notice timestamps between every post.

His case came straight from the heart.

This was the shittiest reason for a town read ever. "He posted fast so he must be town."

When I play as scum I make myself feel and believe what I am saying, and I get actual scumvibes like I do when town. I don't believe that scum players don't also 'speak from the heart' as well.

So you agree That it came straight from the heart and that he believes in it.

So why does that make him not town?

He already explained why it didn't make him town. Stop asking useless questions.

RP, I see your point but don't find it to be that strong a town-tell since most of it just likely based around having an ISO in a separate tab and creating a case is easily done as scum in 15ish minutes. Also most of the case on him has less to do with his case and more to do with his lack of scumhunting and empty reads.

I agree which is why I backed out of my confirmed town read.

But its still pretty convincing to me.

Lol, backtracking. You knew you'd get attacked if you called him confirmed town and then brought that up.

To sum up.

Scummy - Techno, RainbowDash - purely due to Venmar, VisceraEyes - purely due to Absta,

you're awesome bro.

Buddying

This guy's town.

Holding back reasons.

I'm betting on it.

Meta means everything to me Code... There are more individual scum and towntells than there are universal ones. You know how I play as scum. You've played through two scumgames with me and watched how I try to avoid the noose. You should know better that I wouldn't do this as scum, which leads me to a very disturbing conclusion... You are likely scum.

"Why just these two, meh?"

Misrep. I have loads of towntells.


Your entire suspicion on me seems to be revolving around my townread on Venmar. How does that make me scum? Is Venmar scum? Or is Venmar scum simply because I am defending him? You want to potentially lynch me based on a hunch that I am protecting scum-buddy Venmar? No flip, and you are already calling out the scumteams.

My '239' is me being overly gutted. Venmar is probably my favourite person to play with on mafiascum, and I was looking forward to him being in the game. Again, this could ONLY be construed as scummy if Venmar is scum. Where's the logic? Where's the logical, calculated, 'non-smeary based on one possible tell' Code gone?

I'm guessing out the window with his lack of town role PM.

Vote: Code_X

pressure vote for now. I would still rather a drmy lynch at this stage (must be your scumbuddy since you stuck up for him, oh my!/sarcasm), but I await your post-ISO post with eager anticipation.

Bad post bro.

Holding back reasons.

Srs though, is there any way that slot is town? I went through Venmar AND Rd's ISOs and I honestly can't imagine those posts in that context coming from a town-aligned player. Help me out here, because the pony is fighting it and I'm prone to buyer's remorse, so I want to be sure.

Im town because my role is VT.

Really though, how does it at ALL help me to enter a game replacing somepony who replaced out in a shitty sitaution and then immediately turn around and start attacking everypony who is regarded as town? Easiest play in the world as scum is to just pick up one of the wagons that has some backing to it, and either ride it to a mislynch or bus, claim mason if needed even with a random townie to get good reactions for who could be a real mason.

How does ANYTHING I have done help me as scum? It just gets me killed faster.

Also thats a yes you are going to look at RP again after I flip? I just dont want this to be another one of those situations where I die and then my scum read gets away because everypony doesnt look back at stuff.

But yeah I agree with this.

people who flip town. Their reads are sacred.

Oh man, I'd love to see if you still believe this after my flip. If my reads are sacred after I die, then you will definitely be lynched. If you even dare to back out of this then you are confirmed scum.

I'm town. Its easy for me to prove I'm town by catching scum.

No it isn't.

I'm already looking at RP - he was crying about people scumhunting earlier and then policy voted my slot. I think he might be scum. But that doesn't change the fact that I think you're scum either. It's nothing personal, I just think you're playing for a different team than me. *shrug*

I'm sorry.

It wasn't a policy vote.

I still think your slot replaced out because hes scum because he was pressured into being useful.

This is such bullshit. A really horrible reason for a horrible vote.

I mean Chirmi has jumped on Andrew/Shotgun/McStab but hasn't stated a single mention or read of Venmar/Rainbow and neither of Rainbow/Venmar stated a read or anything about Chrimi in fact Rainbow has thrown him at the end of his 'want to lynch' pool with no reasoning attached to it whatsoever. The connection between those and TAM work perfectly as a scum-team plus individually they're all incredibly scummy.

The lynch should be in one of them 3 today, not McStab or Tech or any stupid other wagon.

Soben's town after this.

Holding back reasons.

I was being paranoid before.

Felt people were buddying too much to me.

No real elaboration as to who was buddying you.

But yeah this seals it.

I'm already looking at RP - he was crying about people scumhunting earlier and then policy voted my slot. I think he might be scum. But that doesn't change the fact that I think you're scum either. It's nothing personal, I just think you're playing for a different team than me. *shrug*

I'm sorry.

It wasn't a policy vote.

I still think your slot replaced out because hes scum because he was pressured into being useful.

Well that's just like...your opinion man.

Want to comment on my slot's contribution now instead of giving your outdated opinion again?

Yeah it is my opinion and that was my reason for the vote.


your rainbowdash push is good

"Your slot is scum, but you made a good push on another scum." This sounds like you basically knew to alignments of absta's slot and RD's slot.

Vote chrimi

Obvious wagon jump. Also looks like obvious bussing, considering you only attacked and mentioned Chrimi once before this post.

If I was scum, I obviously would not have defended rbi because it would be an obvious scum buddy tell. If I were scum, I would bus all the way- I suggest you meta my scum games.

1) I could have tried to lynch... TAM, DMS, andrew, VE... all had some flack and I could easily whip up something quick on why they are scum if I wanted to. Im taking about the path of most resistnace possible at this point because I think you are all wrong for the most part.

Come on.

Don't keep telling us what you would have done if you were scum.

I don't listen to arguments like that.

Fun Fact: This is the second attack out of 2 that RP did to Chrimi.

[Potack-ruv]

That's because it's only up to the end of D2.

[Potack-ruv]

How am I protecting Chrimi?
I'm just pointing out how your insistence that you pushed for his lynch is false.

Also if a post was missed, then that just means I didn't find anything wrong with it.
/inb4RPtriestotwistthatintomecallinghimtown

[Potack-ruv]

AcRv popping my head in for a sec:

So will that change if Potack flips town RP? That's the problem I'm having with this whole scenario RP - the fact that you're like SOOOO certain of Potack...but it's based mostly on PoE right? But the thing is, if Potack flips town, your "PoE" has me lynched next as far as I can tell, and I know that I'm town. Who's after me and why RP? If I find those answers satisfactory, I'll move my vote immediately to Potack (assuming it's not already there, i'm too tired to try and remember). If you answer those questions satisfactorily enough to where I think that you're town and you can win it in spite of lynching me if Potack flips town, then I'll vote Potack now and just watch you do it.

I love how it revolves around POE, but then:

Its not 100% town read on VE. the way the scum poked at his wagon seems to be like scum calling a town wagon shitty. I'm pretty sure you're scum and I want you lynched first.

He's not even 100% it's not one of the non-confirmeds.

[Potack-ruv]

Also what would be the benefit of protecting a dead scum as town or scum?