Mini 1350: Spartacus Blood and Sand Mafia Day 2

[Messiah]

Prepare to have your collective craniums expanded beyond a point of no return. Are you ready? Good.

Page by Page Analysis

1 - Nada.

2A - Inexplicable push to wagon DerpyHooves by inte. I can only assume this was an attempt to place pressure on him and get reads.
2B -Active lurking is a scum tell(re: drmyshotgun).

3A - D1 miller claim is proper town play. Policy lynching the miller before LyLo if it becomes obvious there's no vig to help out is also proper town play. A lot of you seem to be confused by one or both of these concepts, so I'll give you a history lesson if necessary.
3B - 3C - Do you guys scum hunt at all? This is ... n00b [url=. Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop. A pro-town player should be attempting to build some kind of case, not switching their vote constantly and giving weak reasoning for their new suspect.
5B - Good lord, how is there no D3f3nd3r wagon yet(re: page 5, not currently)?
5C - Pine pretending to contribute.

6A - Not even pretending now. We're late enough in the game that there should be no tolerance for the kind of garbage that Pine and D3f3nd3r are shoving down our throats.

7A - mafia-n00b on this page is so cringe inducing. ISO post haste.

8A - I had already put in my personal notes(twice, actually) that PeregrineV felt really off and fluffy to me, but my feelings weren't entirely concrete enough to throw in here. .(Actually, do look further. ISO should be just the ticket. Let me know if anyone felt the same saw at all. I have tons of confidence in my gut reads, but pinning them down is tricky.)
8B - D3f3nd3r's ISO should speak for itself at this point, but just in case: 9A - ActionDan decides to exist and def ... s garbage. Where's the reasoning? He hardly ever mentioned him before this at all, let alone building a case.

20A - I can't decide if ActionDan is just a terrible player or a scummy player.(This is a running theme in this game, if you hadn't noticed.)

22A - D3f3nd3r against his lynch: "Why lynch a guy who claimed town?"
22B - Flailing and AtE from D3f3nd3r.

23A - Still don't have a concrete opinion on fitz.

vote2: D3f3nd3r

This is the part where we leave the catch up posting and get into real time play.

Hey Messiah (Matias's replacement), can we get some reads and stuff from you?

You've

got

to be kidding. You're in way too deep to make pseudo-useful comments like this and have anyone fall for it.

Vote1: Code_X

Pietros was my lover (not the mafia definition, but the gladiator one).

We were neighbors to me, masons to him. Together we had power, now we have none.

Vote2: Defender

For killing my lover and being scum.

This is really bizarre and useless, what with the no role flips and the fact that Phil literally never mentioned you a single time and you didn't seem to breadcrumb your connection at all.

The fact that it relies on a plot-driven connection between the characters make it even worse because it gives it an air of legitimacy that I feel is unwarranted.

Having never seen the show or anything, is this a mason/neighbor group that would make sense based on the story of the show? Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean.

basically made him conftown.

No.

---

Let's take a look at the two lynch wagons.

Confirmed Town

On both wagons

Phillammon

:

inte

,

ActionDan

,

drmyshotgun

, Matias, Code_X, D3f3nd3r,

havingfitz

D3f3nd3r: whispersilk, mafia-n00b,

drmyshotgun

,

havingfitz

,

ActionDan

,

inte

, MattP

If there aren't two scum on Phil's wagon I'll eat my hat. Normally I'd simply push for my D3f3nd3r lynch and work from there, but I can't do that in this setup. I've been at this for over three hours now and I'm terribly exhausted from the rest of the day. Expect my other vote later today or tomorrow after I re-read with the intention of looking at ActionDan and havingfitz more closely.

[Messiah]

EBWODP: Proof reading is class. 19A should link here.

[Messiah]

Actually, it looks like all of my urls got hosed. That's.. annoying. I'm just going to re-do that whole area.

Page by Page Analysis

1 - Nada.

2A - Inexplicable push to wagon DerpyHooves by inte. I can only assume this was an attempt to place pressure on him and get reads.
2B -Active lurking is a scum tell(re: drmyshotgun).

3A - D1 miller claim is proper town play. Policy lynching the miller before LyLo if it becomes obvious there's no vig to help out is also proper town play. A lot of you seem to be confused by one or both of these concepts, so I'll give you a history lesson if necessary.
3B - Why hello there giant red flag.
3C - Holy shit. Do you guys scum hunt at all? This is terrible play at best and scummy at worst.
3D - re: Pinesaying that DerpyHooves' reactions to his weird wagon are scummy and justify leaving his RVS vote there, I totally disagree. This reeks of scum being lazy.

4A - Code_X mostly has the right idea re: lynching millers here, after he figured out what a miller actually was. I can't decide if drmyshotgun is scrambling scum trying defend himself against all odds in this argument or if he's just poorly informed at the theory behind the whole thing.

5A - Still don't like mafia-n00b here. Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop. A pro-town player should be attempting to build some kind of case, not switching their vote constantly and giving weak reasoning for their new suspect.
5B - Good lord, how is there no D3f3nd3r wagon yet(re: page 5, not currently)?
5C - Pine pretending to contribute.

6A - Not even pretending now. We're late enough in the game that there should be no tolerance for the kind of garbage that Pine and D3f3nd3r are shoving down our throats.

7A - mafia-n00b on this page is so cringe inducing. ISO post haste.

8A - I had already put in my personal notes(twice, actually) that PeregrineV felt really off and fluffy to me, but my feelings weren't entirely concrete enough to throw in here. Look no further.(Actually, do look further. ISO should be just the ticket. Let me know if anyone felt the same saw at all. I have tons of confidence in my gut reads, but pinning them down is tricky.)
8B - D3f3nd3r's ISO should speak for itself at this point, but just in case: Clicky.

9A - ActionDan decides to exist and defends D3f3nder quickly. Noted.
9B - Peregrine contributes. Yay!
9C - Either I'm glancing over a bunch of D3f3nd3r posts or he's not even trying to play.

10A - Does anyone have Pine meta? Is he usually this awful?

11A - DerpyHooves has been obvtown all game. This is a good time to throw it out here.
11B - I agree with my fantastically flaky predecessor in that I don't like havingfitz much at all, but it's more of a gut thing. I've already been at this for over an hour and he isn't anywhere near being my top priority right now so I'll substantiate the read later.
11C - @D3f3nd3r: If you really are lurking just because you don't think you're a very good player(I don't buy this at all, in any case. You immediately appeared to be a better player by attempting to contribute in this and future posts.), please stop. Irregardless of the "is lurking scummy" debate it's still anti-town at best.

12A - D3f3nd3r puts Phil at L-1 because he's not contributing enough. Right.

12-15 - MattP coming in. This was two or three pages of insanity. MattP is town.

15A - I really can't read drmyshotgun to save my life. I could definitely see this as town on town stuff.

17A - Unabashed waffling from mafia-n00b continues to be on display.
17B - Everything Derpy said here was pure gold. I'll just quote this bit for posterity:

And holy shit did mafia n00b just say he will bandwagon whichever wagon grows the largest? I mean how can we have 6 or 7 obviously scummy people but there is no way we can have 6-7 scum. There are some really fucking dumb town in this game.

18A - I continue to be torn on the MattP vs drmyshotgun battle.

19A - This is garbage. Where's the reasoning? He hardly ever mentioned him before this at all, let alone building a case.

20A - I can't decide if ActionDan is just a terrible player or a scummy player.(This is a running theme in this game, if you hadn't noticed.)

22A - D3f3nd3r against his lynch: "Why lynch a guy who claimed town?"
22B - Flailing and AtE from D3f3nd3r.

23A - Still don't have a concrete opinion on fitz.

Sorry about that.

[Messiah]

Not really. Asking useless questions that seem somewhat inquisitive is a good way for scum to try to skate by without taking any hard stances or trying to actually play the game. There was no reason for you to ask me to give any reads, I hadn't even posted yet. Presumably I'd take care of that when I finished reading and compiling my post.

[Messiah]

I was NOT saying that I'd vote for ANY wagon that got big.

I didn't read it that way anyway(your original post or Derpy's interpretation of it), so we're probably good. I was mostly focusing on the second and third sentence from that quote, considering I addressed your play directly in the point before that.

[Messiah]

Time to

have an incredibly productive weekday morning.

play mafia.

---

So, let's cover our bases here:

Point A: I'm completely convinced D3f3nd3r is scum, and you should be too. I've been wrong before, of course, but I've never been this sure before either.
Point B: At least two scum were on Phil's wagon.
Point C: ActionDan was on the Phil wagon early and the D3f3nd3r wagon late.
Sidebar: Reading Dan's ISO.. he hasn't posted in eight days? What? That was a long ass night phase.
Point D: Dan's vote on D3f3nd3r is the scummiest thing this side of, well, D3f3nd3r. He goes from defending him here and here(these posts are four days apart, mind you) to stating he would vote him here with absolutely no reason given. His reasoning in this post is madness if you take his prior posts into account, which is kind of difficult since you're bound to forget he exists between them.
Point E: Dan's posts are useless(and wrong, usually). See: ISO#1, asking Derpy a question and never following up. Twenty posts later(ISO#2, for those playing along at home) his most substantial contribution is telling Code_X what a death miller is. Eighty posts later(ISO#3) he unvotes Code_X for some reason and says he'll be reading. ISO#4 he still doesn't like Code_X but doesn't bother putting a vote on him even though he has one open. Also see ISO#5, ISO#7, ISO#8, ISO#9 and ISO#10 for more uselessness. Keep reading and you'll find more. You might also realize these make up the vast majority of his posts, and the ones that don't appear entirely useless on the surface are also pretty useless as well.

vote1: ActionDan

Shape up or ship out.

---

Switching gears a little bit, I find Code_X's replacement request overnight to be incredibly bizarre. He's made tons and tons of posts today and yesterday in a different game, so we can probably assume it wasn't something preventing him from posting. For me, though he mostly posted frequently, he was drowned out throughout the game by all the miller garbage and the incredible level of scummery coming from a ton of the players(this also applies to, say, whispersilk). While I didn't find any of his play particularly scummy or towny, I think all of that noise had a huge effect on my having a null read on him. Just some food for thought.

[Messiah]

What's the scum motivation for his claim? It doesn't do anything for him.

[Messiah]

I don't disagree. It was an absolutely terrible claim, and the way he did it was awkward. He basically let the scum know he was a VT, which is a very anti-town thing to do. I'm not sure I understand you though. Are you saying he made the claim as a way to justify why he isn't going to be night killed later?

[Messiah]

Right. I get that it's a fairly safe claim to make in a game with no role flips. If you'll entertain my question again: The night kill bit is a secondary scum motivation for him to make that claim, but what is the primary

motivation

? What does hypo-scum Peregrine think he's going to gain from this?

[Messiah]

Right. I get that it's a fairly safe claim to make in a game with no role flips. If you'll entertain my question again: The night kill bit is a secondary scum motivation for him to make that claim, but what is the primary

motivation

? What does hypo-scum Peregrine think he's going to gain from this?

His primary motivation is that he is claiming an un-counterclaimed pseudo-PR...ok, there isn't strong reasoning that points at it being a good scum move, but there are reasons why it would be a decent move. There is no town motivation for what he did

Everything you say in this post is true, but we have to work through the players in the order that we perceive is the most likely to root out the scum as quickly as possible. For me that means starting with D3f3nd3r, at least until a time when no one else wants to wagon him. I'll be damned if he isn't fighting to keep his head at the end of the day.

[Messiah]

Never.

[Messiah]

There's a reason that Lynch All Millers made it's way into the site meta, Derpy. I see you registered about four years too late to catch it, though.

[Messiah]

Messiah, you mention a wagon on Pine, but say nothing after 10C about him. After thinking he was "this awful," why did you ignore him. As of now, what is your read on him?

FYI, I have Pine meta from NY 152 (4-4-8 Nightless, Pine was town, I was Red Scum). Lots of people found him as scum until he was lynched D12.

Page 10 contained his last post. I didn't ignore him, he flaked. MattP is in his slot and seems incredibly townie to me.

[Messiah]

Messiah....how can you state there were at least two scum on Phil's wagon as if it were fact when we don't even know if there are more than two scum in the game? Don't the odds favor a two person scum team?

A 2:11 setup? No, the odds don't favor that at all. It's

possible

, but we should definitely work on the assumption that it's 3:10 until we have any evidence to the contrary. Minis almost always have a three person scum team, you should know that. As for the two scum being on Phil's wagon, it's a reasonable assumption to make in an attempt to help with scum hunting in light of the small amount of information we currently have. If strong evidence comes out against that theory don't expect me to ignore it(the evidence) or anything like that.

[Messiah]

While we're outlining cases, how about a drmyshotgun case from mafia-n00b?

[Messiah]

@PeregrineV - Do you really not have anything more substantial than that at this point? Could you at least analyze Matias' post for us so we know what scum tells you're picking out?

[Messiah]

I have a number of problems with Dan's claim.

00.) Blatant rolefishing in #677.
01.) I don't see any reason for scum to target him. inte hardly makes more sense as a vig target than Dan does, and both of them should have been a lower priority than drmyshotgun and D3f3nd3r. Let's not forget about mafia-n00b, Pine and Matias either.
02.) Townies are generally not bulletproof. Indeed, this is an

incredibly

powerful role. If you couple that with his softclaim(and don't get me started on softclaims like that, it's so anti-town it isn't even funny) it becomes an incredibly hard pill to swallow.

[Messiah]

Action's claim sounds plausible to me and I can't see scum being given a BP ability that let's them know they have been targetted.

Scum/SK are

so much

more likely to actually be bulletproof than town. And why are you assuming he's telling the truth?

[Messiah]

Your #693 is absolutely dripping with WIFOM, Matt, though I have a feeling you're probably right anyway. I'll consider unvoting Dan after he responds to me.

[Messiah]

Good lord guys. Did you see how productive we were when you weren't clogging the thread with this stuff? Let's do that again.

[Messiah]

@drmyshotgun - Do something not related to defending yourself against Matt. Knock out some scum reads with cases. Maybe vote someone, who knows.

[Messiah]

[Messiah]

Can we lynch D3f3nd3r now?

[Messiah]

@Derpy - Is drmyshotgun usually

this

bad, in your opinion? I was just reading through a mini that D3f3nd3r and drmyshotgun were both in and he seemed substantially better.

[Messiah]

- Is drmyshotgun usually

this

bad, in your opinion? I was just reading through a mini that D3f3nd3r and drmyshotgun were both in and he seemed substantially better.

What game is this?

Mini 1344: Murder on the HSS SomethingOrOther

[Messiah]

You'll notice in that game you actually tried to do something useful every once in a while.

[Messiah]

[quote=Dan 771]I was only saving the other part in order to catch a fake-claim.[/quote]
What kind of fake claim did you think you could catch? Surely it's not a huge leap of faith to have multiple x-shot unlynchables in a game with a voting mechanic like this.

PS: Do you not have anything to say about your inability to make a substantive post for the entirety of D1? What about the rolefishing? Is this mic on?
PPS: Your case on Code is extremely weak for being the best case you can come up with after 31 pages of content.

[Messiah]

Go go gadget _unofficialvote count. I'm assuming votes were reset at the beginning of the day, but I could be wrong. Pretty sure I got it right, let me know if there's anything off.

---

VOTE1

L-3

ActionDan (Messiah, D3f3nd3r, Derpy Hooves)

L-4

Code_X (PeregrineV, ActionDan)

L-5

Derpy Hooves (havingfitz)

L-5

drmyshotgun (mafia-n00b)

L-5

MattP (drmyshotgun)

L-5

PeregrineV (MattP)

Not Voting: whispersilk, Code_X

VOTE2

L-1

D3f3nd3r (PeregrineV, mafia-n00b, Messiah, ActionDan, havingfitz)

L-5

drmyshotgun (MattP)

L-5

MattP (D3f3nd3r)

L-5

havingfitz (Derpy Hooves)

Not Voting: whispersilk, Code_X, drmyshotgun

---

I'm seeing this as an impromtu argument to supplement your bias of disbelieving my claim. Which is extraordinary. Here let me ask you, suppose the mod didn't tell me about losing my immunity. Scum gets caught via cop claim or the like, I offer to go to battle in the arena, thinking I'm immune. I die instead. Do you think this is more probable then being told I was shot so the town doesn't royally fuck itself over?

I'll answer this: Yes.

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcastic. What happens if two unlynchables face eachother in that case?

No lynch? Honestly, I don't know. Lynchproof is a

really

non-standard role, but it fits in with the quirks of this game well.

PS: rolefishing? I was asking only for the person who shot me to claim. It a) confirms my claim, b) makes it so that if anyone is ever linked to the shot and doesn't admit it, gets lynched. c) If someone did come forward, either someone will cc by claiming to vig Inte or we can establish that inte was at least a scum shot. d) excuse me but do you see anyone claiming the shot? no? good we've established that I was shot by scum, and no other roles were outed.

Yes, rolefishing. There may not be a single thing more anti-town than rolefishing. What if we have a vig and he/she/it was dumb enough to claim the shot against you? Then the mafia would just night kill them tomorrow. The rest of what you said is just.. wrong. See mafia-n00b in post 778.

[Messiah]

I refuse to explain to you why outing numerous power roles for no reason is a terrible idea. I hope for your sake you're just flailing scum and not this dense.

[Messiah]

I would like to apologize for answering that question Dan directed at Derpy before Derpy got to respond. That was poor form.

[Messiah]

I just read a bunch of drmyshotgun games. Can anyone guess what I found? Matty is right. He plays

so much

better as town than he has here, and he only ever displays anything similar to the level of aggression he has here in his scum games.

unvote1, vote1: drmyshotgun

We can throw Dan to the wolves later.

[Messiah]

Oh, and Derpy, he gets lynched D1 as town here. I'd recommend you and everyone else check out any of his other games as well. The point Matt has been trying to make this entire time is just about the most obvious thing in the world once you take a look.

[Messiah]

Psst, Matty, join mafia-n00b and I on drmyshotgun's vote1 wagon.

[Messiah]

Can we try to get the list mod to take over modding responsibilities or something before we all replace out? Pretty please?

[Messiah]

Actually, that might only be a thing in Newbie games. Not sure.

[Messiah]

I PMed hasgdagssdaads.

[Messiah]

How much do you wanna bet?

[Messiah]

How much do you wanna bet?

/hides

I uploaded a screenshot of my outbox and everything.

[Messiah]

Hey whispersilk, you could give us your thoughts on the stuff you missed while we wait. I'm very interested in them.

[Messiah]

I swear, if either of you are town I will be tempted to say angry things in caps lock or something equally menacing.

@Derpy - He just said that he prodded Chesskid. Not sure what comes next.

[Messiah]

Our friendly neighborhood lynch candidates, drmyshotgun and D3f3nd3r.

[Messiah]

PMed hasdgfas for a status update.

[Messiah]

Well.. that sucks.

[Messiah]

I'm assuming we'd get a replacement mod if hasdgfas had the mod information. Could be wrong though.

[Messiah]

If Chesskid doesnt post then the game is ABANDONED, it's not given to another mod.

Totally. I was responding to Derpy's wondering if we'd find out who the scum were. Hopefully they'll be kind enough to let us know. The ones not among the myriad flakers, anyway.

[Messiah]

Chess, maybe post in the backup mod thread? People seem to jump on requests in there really quick.

[Messiah]

As much as I hate the idea I can't really disagree with that. It would be a pain to deal with all the replacements(or to continue existing in a game where the vast majority of the players refuse to actually play).

[Messiah]

Speak of the devil.

[Messiah]

I'm VT, myself.

[Messiah]

That's a lot of replacements Faraday.

[Messiah]

Better yet, vig should always shoot the miller IMO. Saves us a lynch.

This so much.

[Messiah]

Well, that sure is.. something. Kudos on the uber bus.

[Messiah]

I really would have grown incredibly paranoid if Matt and I both survived to a three player LyLo, although I get the feeling he's a good player so it would've been incredibly hard to justify lynching him(to myself and anyone else) at any point.

[Messiah]

Particularly in comparison with any of the other players(save Derpy), I should add.

[Messiah]

Out of curiosity, Faraday, what brings you to the thread?

[Messiah]

That makes sense. Wish chess would've just tapped you as a backup earlier in that case.

[Messiah]

Were Phil and PV really neighbors to PV and masons to Phil?

[Messiah]

Well, that was painful to read. I almost feel sorry for you Matt.