History Mafia Mini Theme - 1358 Game Over!

[DeasVail]

[/b]Vote: ChaosOmega[/b]

[DeasVail]

ugh, I can't even use bold tags properly anymore.

Vote: ChaosOmega

[DeasVail]

I have read most of the game and will post thoughts later.

[DeasVail]

It is doing something as opposed to doing nothing.

[DeasVail]

My reads:

IceGuy-

Town

because of his claim and following play, but I still think there is the possibility of his mass nameclaim suggestion coming from scum.

Bitmap-

Town

for continuing behaviour that he'd already been suspected for, or otherwise behaving in ways that scum would perhaps avoid. I agree with MattP that the signature change was less likely to come from scum as well, although I did share Amrun's confusion at first.

Michel-

Undecided

. I will try to think more about his play later, but right now I'm having trouble. I like his posts, but I don't read anything particularly unlikely to come from scum and aspects of his posting come across as a bit scummy to me.

I plan to go over his ISO and provide more detailed thoughts on him, but first, a question: Do you have any experience with scum rolefishing?

Amrun-

Town

. Based on a few little things that make me think she's town. Also, 207 was a non-scummy question that got a lot more attention than I expected.

ChaosOmega-

I didn't really decide on what I thought of him while reading, so I'll ISO and post thoughts now.

I get a slight town feeling if anything until 219, as the "Can we just lynch Bitmap?" seems forced.

His other posts support my slight town feeling though. I'm not sure if I'd put him as a town read, but he's not a scum read. Also Chaos, please say what you think of Amrun when you can.

DCL-

I originally said scum here, but now going with

town

. There are a lot of things that make me think scum, but the confidence with which he attacks Amrun in 301 seems beyond what scum would be capable of considering the situation. I can elaborate if I need to, but will not for now.

Shamrock-

Scum

. His posts have mostly been careful comments while never truly demonstrating town scumhunting.

In 14 he comments on an issue, but doesn't attempt to read/question anyone. Note the careful nature of the post.

43 is similar.

In 64 he is still arguing a point that doesn't have anything to do with his reads, while still being very careful.

His questions are for incrimination purposes only.

Being one of the people attacking Amrun for 207 is also reason for suspicion in my mind, and his attack on her is also flawed, as pointed out by Amrun in 260, but he does not concede.

His change of vote in 325 is probably what I find most scummy. His post doesn't really make sense for town to make. If he still had a scumread on Amrun, wouldn't he be more interested in why others suddenly find her town? Wouldn't he try harder to get her lynched instead of giving up due to the wagon not moving anywhere. However, I think his actions makes sense with him being scum considering the awkward position Shamrock-scum would have been placed in after Matt and Bitmap decide on Amrun-town. He would likely feel incredibly uncomfortable joining in and saying "yeah, Amrun's probably town", and continuing to push her would also probably seem like a bad idea to him considering the attention he has already received for it and the flaw revealed in his argument. The way to avoid these two things would be to do what he did.

MattP-

Town

, but I get all paranoid regarding him. How confident are you actually in your Vash read?

Vash-

Undecided

. My only real thought about him was that he could be town for trying to overcompensate for his inactivity. This would be scummy, except he actually had no pressure on him at all, so would he really be so ambitious as scum? How he loses steam and doesn't catch up properly seem a bit like town to me, but I'm not sure.

Quilford-

Town

mostly because of his early posting. What did you/do you think of Amrun?

Scooby-

Town

. He feels genuine.

Staeg-

Undecided

. He may be a scumread, but I can't really explain it right now, and Shamrock is the one I want to lynch anyway.

UNVOTE: ChaosOmega
VOTE: Shamrock

[DeasVail]

What sealed for me was the slip accusation some posts ago. It was obviously not a slip. I dont understand why Michael felt the need to bring that to the table.

Do you find that this contradicts with your other thoughts on him?

[DeasVail]

The slip "accusation" is actually one of the things holding me back from calling him scum, precisely because it is not very logical or well done, which doesn't fit with how I would imagine this polite, non-aggressive, michel-scum to be.

PEdit:

[DeasVail]

I'll explain my DCL read further now, but I've just realised that it's void if Amrun is scum, and them being scum together is something I could definitely see according to DCL's play, but I have a town read on Amrun (although I don't think I've seen her as scum before).

Regarding DCL,

I agreed with what people said about 25, and his following interactions seemed scummy to me at the time, as if trying a bit too hard to look like a snarky townie.

I don't know if I can explain what I consider to be the towntell very well, but here goes.

Hypothetical Town-DCL reads through or whatever the situation and fairly easily understands what is going on, thinks that it should have been fairly easy for most townies to understand, and along with Amrun's abnormal reaction believes that Amrun is scum upset by Bitmap being confirmed town.

Scum-DCL is much less sure of what would and would not be a town reaction in the situation (so wouldn't know how likely it would be for town to understand), and is much more concerned about what people think of him. The combination of these two things make it unlikely that scum-DCL would attack Amrun with such confidence in this situation if Amrun is town.

MattP:

Why did you want me to elaborate?

Shamrock:

I'm sorry, I don't think your accusation of Amrun-scum is as bad as I thought it was before, but I don't agree that attacking someone in such a way is indicative of having made up one's mind, and I stand by my other points, especially the switch from amrun to vash while seemingly not attempting to improve your read on Amrun and giving up on her lynch earlier than I would expect.

DCL:

Why did you place Amrun at the bottom of your suspect list?

Scooby:

I'll respond properly now. It's something I often do when I replace in. I think there's only been one other game where someone's made a fuss, and I was scum there, so maybe you're onto something.

[DeasVail]

omg dv <3

And I forgot to respond to this and it's kind of awkward doing so now and probably even more awkward than not doing anything at all, but anyway..

<3

(I'm really hoping you're town now because this would be even more embarrassing if not)

[DeasVail]

I don't think she is any more because my recollection of her is that she's considerably more aggressive and biting as scum and her posts seem well thought out, especially her reasoning on Bitmap waaay back.

When did you realise this?

[DeasVail]

I know that I am terrible at finding powerroles as scum myself. I also don't have experience with scum rolefishing in the sense that I could not point to a particular post in a finished game and quote a scum quicktopic to prove that the player in question was clearly rolefishing. Still, there are various way in which you can enter a discussion regarding powerroles, and encouraging other players to give info away is not a pro-town one.

This is a scummy paragraph.

I disagree with the IceGuy votes. Unless my opinion changes, I will defend him if he's in danger of getting lynched.

Looking over Michel's posts, they give me a very scummy feeling, but I don't feel that I would be able to convince anyone of him being scummy very well.

[DeasVail]

@DV, would still like to hear an answer to this:

Because your reason for switching was because the wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you didn't really do anything to change this. Having your votes determined by which wagons are moving and which aren't limits your influence on the game as town.

[DeasVail]

"Pressure" is overrated.

[DeasVail]

IceGuy is playing poorly right now, but it's not necessarily indicative of being scum. I've seen him be this intractable as town before.

What do you actually think his alignment is though?

[DeasVail]

IceGuy:

Thoughts on McStab?

[DeasVail]

DCL:

What do you think of MattP?

[DeasVail]

Ack, it's actually really close to deadline.

I really want to lynch either Shamrock or Michel. Anyone interested in joining me on one of those two?

[DeasVail]

I don't think it's terrible because I do think I could be wrong about him and he does seem less reasonable than when I've seen him before. The confidence of his play still seems like town to me though. Is anyone familiar with his scumgame?

[DeasVail]

How are you flailing?

Also, why do no I not see any Shamrock or Michel in your post? D:

[DeasVail]

McStab is an ok lynch, but I don't like compromising on lynches

[DeasVail]

Why does no one seem to care about Chaos anymore?

[DeasVail]

I'd support a mcstab lynch at this stage too.

McStab

Obviously you're today's lynch target so please claim.

[DeasVail]

That wasn't a vote btw in case there's any confusion.

[DeasVail]

No, it was intended to be a "McStab look at this" type thing, but I posted and realised it looked like it could have been intended as a vote.

Anyway,

McStab

Claim please.

[DeasVail]

Townies don't make double posts in an effort to inflate their post count either.

[DeasVail]

But then you'd have to bus me, and I'd have to pretend I'm town convinced you're scum trying to mislynch me and then you'd call me out for OMGUS and then I'd chuck a massive tanty and I'm just not up to doing all that until Day 3 at least.

Wait, was I supposed to start already?

[DeasVail]

That depends on the motive behind your double post.

[DeasVail]

So no (I think)

[DeasVail]

L-1

[DeasVail]

Quil, is it so important that we continue this or can we stop now?

[DeasVail]

...

[DeasVail]

I never lied.

Was this some elaborate reaction test? If not, why would I have lied, and what did you think I was doing afterward?

[DeasVail]

Yes

[DeasVail]

And townies never lie.

So this was serious?

Also, what would have been so scummy about voting for McStab at the time?

[DeasVail]

If I was admitting to lying, will you think I'm town?

[DeasVail]

Ok, I'll stop, sorry.

[DeasVail]

The answer to the first is no.

[DeasVail]

I should be able to get on for about 15 minutes, at some point before deadline to check things, but it's possible I won't, so please don't rely on me being around before deadline to hammer or anything.

This will be the last I;m on before then anyway.

[DeasVail]

Shamrock:

I didn't have much of a scumread on McStab and had michel and yourself as reasonable scumreads. The Chaos thing was actually only a question. I didn't have much interest in lynching him.

I think the miller claim from DCL is bad, and I like the wagon, but am not joining it until I get the chance to read over things.

[DeasVail]

I'm really sorry. I won't have time for this tonight, but will definitely after uni tomorrow!

Please hold off on any lynching until then.

[DeasVail]

Hmm, why would DCL be more scared of a cop investigation after Night 1 than before Night 1?

Technically, I think it is more pro-scum for DCL to claim now, because of the possibility of a cop investigating him N1 (when with a D1 miller claim, that would not happen). However, I'm not sure that this is a good indication of DCL's alignment.

I do have a question for DCL though. Can you point me to any experience/reading that influenced your decision to claim on Day 2 as opposed to Day 1? Sorry if this has already been asked.

I will work out my reads this weekend, but at this time I'm not happy with lynching DCL.

[DeasVail]

I kind of think DCL is town.

Regarding Michel,

I think I have quite a decent scumread on him now. The main things are:

-There's the rolefishing accusation, when I feel that Michel never really considered whether scum would actually so blatantly rolefish and was instead just using it as fake scumhunting fuel. I find the following quote very unconvincing as well.

I know that I am terrible at finding powerroles as scum myself. I also don't have experience with scum rolefishing in the sense that I could not point to a particular post in a finished game and quote a scum quicktopic to prove that the player in question was clearly rolefishing. Still, there are various way in which you can enter a discussion regarding powerroles, and encouraging other players to give info away is not a pro-town one.

-I find 565, where Michel thinks he hammers McStab to be very scummy as well, with the way he presents a list of acceptable lynches and reasoning and his content before that. If he did indeed feel that time was running out, why would he not just say something along the lines of "Hey, let's lynch McStab because we're running out of time" rather than posting lots of stuff and presenting acceptable lynches, only to say "may as well hammer McStab" at the end when the opportunity appears to arise. The whole *hammering without a claim* thing affirms my belief that the hammer (or what he thought was one) appeared to be an attempt to distance from McStab and it doesn't match with his actual post (particularly the part suggesting there were multiple lynch options), which I feel was more of an attempt to look town than what would come from a townie.

~~

I also find Shamrock scummy for similar reasons as Day 1, but also his sudden support for a McStab lynch in 543 looks like it could be an attempt to distance. His accusation of me deflecting a McStab lynch, with no further mention, is scummy too.

[DeasVail]

Regarding the first point, you're saying that my argument is made less valid by the fact that it was page 2, but your mention of it in your hammer post indicates a greater significance than what you imply in this latest post.

Onto the second, I realised that the L-1 vote must have occurred after you started your post, but the main things I find scummy (which probably weren't well expressed) are:

-Your presentation of acceptable lynches + reasoning (as well as other content), while prepared to commit to the McStab wagon when time was running out (which you were evidently aware of), seems a lot to me like scum trying to look pro-town, rather than town trying to organise getting a lynch. When town has decided to bring McStab to L-1, I don't expect them to give reasons for other scumreads as well, especially when McStab was obviously the leading wagon. I can easily see scum doing this however, in an effort to demonstrate town scumhunting.

[DeasVail]

Because daycops are much less common than standard cops.

I mean, why would he not be worried about being investigated at night until AFTER the night?

[DeasVail]

The 2nd point is possible, but I find the coaching thing unlikely considering his poor reasoning for claiming miller, and the risk of claiming it in the first place.

[DeasVail]

Also DV's reads on replacing in. One scum read? No sir. And of course the absolute gem to back up the scoobytown read - "he feels genuine". Always a go-to word for scum.[/post]
This was a joke based on scooby's reaction to Amrun saying the same thing.

And I'm back here again, for DV's reaction to the McStab wagon building. I don't even know what the non-vote business is about, but the "townies don't double post" reply to Quilford is so shit it's funny. AND THEN THE COMMENTATING LOL.

Also a joke in response to Quil saying townies never lie.

DeasVail wrote:
Why does no one seem to care about Chaos anymore?

When the fuck did you care about Chaos? Did you even give that read in the end? Or did you just forget which mislynch you were pushing OOPS.

This was not interest in starting a Chaos wagon (who I've always had a very slight townread on), but a serious question considering that Chaos was previously a popular target and I was wondering why he wasn't anymore.

[DeasVail]

Also DV's reads on replacing in. One scum read? No sir. And of course the absolute gem to back up the scoobytown read - "he feels genuine". Always a go-to word for scum.

This was a joke based on scooby's reaction to Amrun saying the same thing.

And I'm back here again, for DV's reaction to the McStab wagon building. I don't even know what the non-vote business is about, but the "townies don't double post" reply to Quilford is so shit it's funny. AND THEN THE COMMENTATING LOL.

Also a joke in response to Quil saying townies never lie.

When the fuck did you care about Chaos? Did you even give that read in the end? Or did you just forget which mislynch you were pushing OOPS.

This was not interest in starting a Chaos wagon (who I've always had a very slight townread on), but a serious question considering that Chaos was previously a popular target and I was wondering why he wasn't anymore.

[DeasVail]

Lots of jokes there. You must be a funny guy. Were you joking with the rest of the reasons you gave for your town reads?

If you define popular as having the same three votes for an extended period of time, then I suppose you're right. Why did you choose that moment to bring it up?

Why do you think his popularity waned?

-I don't think so.

-Because that's when I thought to ask it.

-I don't know.

[DeasVail]

666, I could see something like goon-slight PR for one scumteam and goon-traitor-traitor (wait... should there ever be a traitor flip, lynch IG with fire) if the town was fairly stacked, but eeh.

666 is kinda slightly more town for this entire exchange of shit-flinging, and I would now be more than willing to vote sham. Which I will actually do.

vote: shamrock

(ftr, yesterday I had the thought of "no way are both 666 and stab on the both scumteam, but jesus fuck they're both so fucking scummy" - today a similar thing between 666 and sham came up IMM, so let's go guys)

Yay.

VOTE: Shamrock

What do you think of Michel?

[DeasVail]

@DeasVail: So explanations such as "because of his early posting" or "because of a few little things" are not jokes? Those are perfectly serious reads?

You really don't know why the CO wagon dissolved? I'll give you a clue: all three votes moved to the same place.

And still, why ask? Did you think the move off him was scum-motivated?

What exactly were you trying to achieve with your behaviour around the McStab lynch? You asked for a claim, pointed out L-1 (except it wasn't) and asked about a different wagon. You did not oppose the McStab wagon, but certainly weren't for it, and didn't push any real alternative. What was your desired outcome at the end of the day?

I thought giving detailed reason for my townreads would be slightly detrimental if anything, and where I thought it would be beneficial, I did (see DCL townread).

I didn't have specific answers in mind when asking the question. It was just something that came to mind. I don't spend a long time thinking carefully about each post before I make it you know. I don't think it was necessarily scum-motivated.

Er, by the time I pointed out (what I thought was) L-1 and asked for a claim, I had pretty obviously realised that McStab was the lynch barring a special claim/sudden towniness. I think I was pushing Shamrock before that, and I didn't oppose the McStab wagon because he was only a null-weak scum read and I thought that we could get a better read from him with few posts. Desired outcome would have been a lynch on Shamrock. Michel was probably the other one ahead of McStab on my lynch preference list at that stage. Also, I have said before and I'll say again that I didn't have any interest in a Chaos lynch.

[DeasVail]

I don't think it was necessarily scum-motivated.

This refers to people moving off the CO wagon by the way.

[DeasVail]

DCL, can you vote for shamrock?

[DeasVail]

Ack, it's actually really close to deadline.

I really want to lynch either Shamrock or Michel. Anyone interested in joining me on one of those two?

How are you flailing?

Also, why do no I not see any Shamrock or Michel in your post? D:

McStab is an ok lynch, but I don't like compromising on lynches

[DeasVail]

Jarvis, how would you feel if everyone suddenly wagoned Chaos?

[DeasVail]

By the way,

I'M OPPOSED TO A DCL LYNCH.

I have a weak town read on DCL, and am not super confident, but I think that I should try sharing why.

Overall, I just think his play has been too free(?) for scum, and I don't think he's that scummy really. If he was scum he probably would have talked over the possibility of claiming miller day 2 with a scum partner, but his flawed reasoning for it makes this somewhat unlikely. I don't think the miller claim makes DCL more town, but I don't find it particularly scummy either, and the rest of his posting gives me a weak town read.

If he's scum, then once again, well done to those who have caught him, but I do think he's town here. Please ask me as many questions as you want, because I'm not sure if I've expressed my townread on him properly.

PEdit: Also note that Michel's focus is on dismantling my argument, rather than clarifying his thoughts/actions and presenting himself as town.

[DeasVail]

I don't have anything very solid, but it's his sarcasm, his persistence in going after amrun and Iceguy despite it not being the popular opinion, and I feel his reaction to the pressure has been fairly townish as well. Maybe he doesn't have a partner, but a miller claim still feels weird after the flip of a tracker. I don't have anymore time now, and as I said, I'm not really that confident in DCL-town.

[DeasVail]

Can people please say what they think of Shamrock and Michel?

As in, if you think they're town, why?

If you think my reasoning for them being scum is bad, please tell me why.

[DeasVail]

DCL:

How likely do you think it is that IceGuy will be lynched today?

[DeasVail]

Chaos:

-Yeah, I wasn't supporting McStab's lynch.

-The first quote from the Quil thing is really just me mucking around.

-I didn't mean to be aggressive in the second one, and I didn't actually mean to colour his name, but I didn't think it would have been a big deal if I had meant to vote McStab there (because I was thinking of voting). Also, it went on for so long, because Quil kept pushing it.

-Regarding DCL, I read over things and changed my mind.

-I don't really care whether I had the same reasoning as Matt or not, but for the sake of helping you better understand my position, I don't find the miller claim particularly town like Matt did. Instead, I didn't think it particularly scummy or townish, and my weak townread is based on the rest of his play.

[DeasVail]

Also, I'd like Bitmap's theory about my scumslip.

[DeasVail]

I don't understand your reaction.

Ok. What is it though?

[DeasVail]

Oh, I meant, I would (I'd) like your theory, as in I want to know it.

And I can't exactly say your theory is

completely

bogus until I see it.

Well, obviously (since I'm town teehee) it will be bogus to some degree, but it could actually be a decent theory except for the fact that it's wrong.

[DeasVail]

... I originally rolled my eyes and skimmed over your exchange with Quilford, but this prompted me to reread it. What you're saying here doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happened to me (I recommend everyone who can't remember it go reread it, it's on page 23-24). It went on for so long because you kept responding, even to posts which clearly didn't necessitate a response, like Quilford's "I think you're lying". It feels defensive in a scummy way to me, like you were inordinately worried about potentially gathering a "liar" stink around your name. I feel like the town response to seeing that post of Quil's below your own is to roll your eyes and close the thread without bothering to respond - not to get into a nervous-looking page-long shoving match.

Sorry, I take back what I said about it going on for so long because of Quil pushing it.

[DeasVail]

Point is that DCL is going to be lynched before lylo, no matter how towny he is.

I disagree.

[DeasVail]

Interesting stuff:

-No one really expressed suspicion of me Day 1 (Scooby was the only one I think?)
-Beginning of Day 2, Shamrock mentions my weak stance on McStab without really trying to push it or attack me. It's merely "Does this look sketchy as fuck to anyone else?" and that's it for his next few posts. No actual effort to try and read me and an example of his cautious (likely) scum play.
-This doesn't actually stick, and it's not until Jarvis comes in that people actually start expressing suspicion of me.

I don't really know what to make of everyone suddenly suspecting me. I feel like there's something significant to learn from it, but I really don't know.

Also, I'm Otto Von Bismark, VT

[DeasVail]

Oh, and if I do get lynched, consider this:

If staeg is town, then shamrock is likely scum, because if he was town, he would be a pretty easy target for scum to attack throughout these days because of his somewhat low activity and cautious posting. However, Day 1, Amrun and I were the only ones really wanting a shamrock lynch and today it's Staeg and me. I find this weird if staeg is town, because for someone like shamrock there shouldn't be so much resistance to lynching him.

I don't think this is conclusive or anything, but in my opinion it slightly supports Shamrock-scum.

[DeasVail]

I don't see what that has to do with anything

Me neither

[DeasVail]

Hey, just letting you know I'm having internet problems, so very limited time right now. This should be fixed within a day or two, but I'll try to let you know if otherwise.

[DeasVail]

More Shamrock votes please.

[DeasVail]

I'll make my point more clear than.

You were mistaken about the vote count.
Yet you bash me for being mistaken about how big the wagon got.

Hypocrisy 101 right here.

Is that scummy?

[DeasVail]

I'd rather not have a DCL lynch...

But at least if he's scum, I'm obvtown, right?

[DeasVail]

I'd probably prefer a CO lynch over a DCL one.

[DeasVail]

But Shamrock...

[DeasVail]

You said it yourself.

And I'm too sketchy to be scum

[DeasVail]

Eh, it's because after I got so much pressure for my behaviour regarding the McStab wagon, surely I wouldn't do it AGAIN with my only remaining partner?

[DeasVail]

Anyone have anything?

Well I have information indicating that you're voting for town. Does that help?

[DeasVail]

And you have DCLXVI as a weak townread. You wouldn't list both your partners like that, would you?

This is the answer to that question of yours.

Also, I'm not scum, so er... don't lynch me?

[DeasVail]

Michel is actually right about CO.

MattP:

How likely do you think it that CO is SK?

[DeasVail]

I'm going to try an clarify my reads so you can at least consider them if I am lynched, but this is pretty much exactly what I'd do here as scum, so if you think it's a towntell, you're probably wrong. I could even be saying that last bit just to make you think I'm town, or maybe I'm actually town because of it.

Or maybe all this confusion is just me attempting to do something as scum that will make you all go "Surely scum wouldn't act like that!"

Or maybe I'm actually town.

Eh, your choice.

Anyway,

Bitmap-

Probably town, but:

Q's:

What made you so confident that the lynch was off after the hammer? What is your current read of me?

ChaosOmega-

I think it's unlikely that Chaos is mafia at this stage, but I do think SK is possible. I don't have a confident read on him though. Perhaps leaning town.

Q:

How confident are you in your read of me?

Jarvis-

His response to the jokes seems too negative and over-the top. I don't think his null-read of shamrock is that likely from town. I think his explanation for voting me instead of DCL here could be contrived. I do find some of his play a bit like town though, so maybe a leaning scumread. I may have more to say later.

Q:

Would you say your suspicion of me has remained quite consistent, or has it wavered?

MattP-

I

think

he's town.

Michel-

He's a scumread because of what I said in 642 and 644. I haven't really found him that scummy recently though, so the scumread is probably a little weaker, but I still have him as more likely scum than others.

Shamrock-

-Early careful play, outlined in 382
-Lack of attempt to improve his read on amrun/encourage others to vote for her, instead changing his vote, despite having a strong scumread on her. Note that I don't agree completely with what I said about this in the above linked post anymore.
-In 543, he says he feels good about a mcstab lynch and provides reasoning. The reasoning just seems unnecessary here and possibly like an attempt to distance.
-Also, his comment on my behaviour around the McStab wagon in 598 has no follow-up until I actually became a popular lynch target.

Staeg-

Town?

Vote: Shamrock

[DeasVail]

So, Shamrock thinks I'm scum, and I'm basically reiterating my previous reasons for thinking him scum, but he

still

goes to the effort of defending against my claims! Why would he if, (a) he's already done it previously and (b) he doesn't even think I'm town.

[DeasVail]

Can I ask that you kill me

after

you kill Shamrock?

[DeasVail]

Wat?

Maybe because I don't want us to mislynch me?

Because everyone was totally going to sheep me...

Also, I don't understand what was so WIFOMy about my previous post.

[DeasVail]

Oh, because I'm BP of course!

Actually, it's just that I don't want to die and have Shamrock still alive, because I want him lynched/killed/whatever and would rather that happen sooner than later.

Also just getting it out there that I'd rather not die at all.

[DeasVail]

Wait, why would I be so eager to tunnel on my scumbuddy Shamrock all game, and not even have the balls to bus McStab who was obviously going down?

[DeasVail]

That's because you're not dead yet.

Pedit: Oh really?

[DeasVail]

Btw Shamrock, I think it would be best if we end this charade of attacking each other and band together against Matt or something.

[DeasVail]

WHERE IS MY BUS CRED?

[DeasVail]

Hey hey hey deas question when was the exact moment in your flailing where you gained a desperate semblance of hope that you could start a lynch on someone you've been calling town all game? ;D lol

I've realised that's a bad idea, so I'm leaving my vote on Shamrock.

Pedit: Wait what?

[DeasVail]

You are the king of flailure

I know!

But if you want some not necessarily accurate self-meta, I am much more flail-y and erratic as town under pressure than scum under pressure.

[DeasVail]

Ohhh the betrayal! D:

[DeasVail]

I know it's probably useless, but I

am

town and I don't really want to be lynched, so if there's anything people want to ask that they think would improve their read of me, please do.

I also ask that we lynch Shamrock instead of me, but if we can't for some reason, I ask that you strongly consider lynching him regardless of what I flip.

Also, I'd like to note that I'm surprised by Jarvis' consistent suspicion of me, considering that both the games we've played together, I've been a very popular lynch target as town.

[DeasVail]

If I'm town, is there anything I should be doing now?

[DeasVail]

Can we seriously lynch shamrock today?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, he doesn't comment on the wagon on me at all.

[DeasVail]

Umm, I've already claimed, but

male

just because I'm such a nice townie.

Popcorn Shamrock

What I want to know is, why didn't Michel start things off he wanted it?

Also, I'll ask again, can we please lynch Shamrock instead of me? I'll offer you all special in-game favours?

[DeasVail]

And I obviously mean in this game by the way, not outside of this game.

[DeasVail]

Interesting stuff:

-No one really expressed suspicion of me Day 1 (Scooby was the only one I think?)
-Beginning of Day 2, Shamrock mentions my weak stance on McStab without really trying to push it or attack me. It's merely "Does this look sketchy as fuck to anyone else?" and that's it for his next few posts. No actual effort to try and read me and an example of his cautious (likely) scum play.
-This doesn't actually stick, and it's not until Jarvis comes in that people actually start expressing suspicion of me.

I don't really know what to make of everyone suddenly suspecting me. I feel like there's something significant to learn from it, but I really don't know.

Also, I'm Otto Von Bismark, VT

[DeasVail]

Two concerns:

1. How has shamrock negotiated into not having himself die? (And what can I do to achieve a similar outcome?)

2. Why does Michel think CO could possibly be part of a three-man scumteam?

[DeasVail]

We should be killing Shamrock!!!!

[DeasVail]

Yeah, only Matt can know whether his gunsmith role applies to "guns" or "weapons". And can someone point me to where knives are mentioned?

Also, lynch Shamrock.

[DeasVail]

DV takes a bullet between the eyes tonight.

Is Shamrock scum if I'm town?

[DeasVail]

I will support a MSH lynch if you promise not to lynch me at all (and I believe you). Otherwise, I'm just going to keep screaming for a Shamrock lynch.

Also, lynch Shamrock.

[DeasVail]

By the way, I'm really sorry if I'm wrong about you Shamrock.

[DeasVail]

Ok, I'm Otto Von Bismarck.

I'm town now, right?

[DeasVail]

Ok, I have more recent scum meta than what you'd be able to find by looking me up.

One is off-site, but with MS players and mod, and one is on an alt, which you may or may not know about. I also think that my play there is quite different from my play here.

If people think that they would be interested in it and that it would honestly be likely to change their opinion, I would be happy to link you to the games, but I would rather not if you're just going to lynch me anyway.

[DeasVail]

Is the stabbing from the flavour? If so, I wouldn't trust that it's indicative of anything.

[DeasVail]

Oh, I don't know. I'll think about it later.

[DeasVail]

I'm just going to ask questions as I see stuff, so apologies if there's an obvious answer.

Why do you think a non-CO SK would kill Quil? (Hint: It's not me)

The first scenario in 1079 looks flawed to me as it seems to be simultaneously having Matt as town and SK. Oh wait, I assume some of the MattP's are actually meant to be CO's? Why do you think you did that?

Also why would SK try to kill IceGuy, who was always likely to be a mafia kill anyway?

Oooohhhhh!

What if the gun thing is another way of possibly verifying claims? Because obviously guns weren't around at the time of Julius Caeser.

OR

Our speculation is just pointless, because Nexus' death scenes begin with "in [year]", so mafia can't exactly shoot Julius Caesar in 44BC (or can they?) Maybe the weapons depend on the year, but anyone who can kill has a "gun" anyway?

Oh wait, just realised they can (someone was killed by an AK in some BC date that I forget)

SO NEVER MIND.

Weapon could still depend on the person killing though (e.g. 2 mafia have guns, one has a knife or something) and the first theory is at least not impossibe.

Hmm, what do you think of the 2 scum on 2 teams possibility?

To be honest, I don't really care about this that much even though I should, because I've gotten myself into a (admittedly unhealthy) state where I so wholeheartedly believe that Shamrock is scum that if he became revealed as an Innocent Child, I'd probably find him scummy for it.

Noooo Staeg

[DeasVail]

Also why did you take out the

"SHAMROCK IS THE SCUM!!! HE SHOULD BE LYNCHED!"

from your post?

[DeasVail]

Oh look, a wall.

Yeah... There's just so much there and it's

so

hard to read through.

[DeasVail]

@DV: sorry for that, it's difficult to be clear and concise if the subject matter is complex.

the shortest summary I can think of:

Given that CO killed Amrun, and given what MattP claimed:

• CO being SK would imply an unbalanced setup
  
• CO being odd night vig makes Matt's gunsmith pointless
  
• CO being mafia would mean a reasonably balanced setup, without outrageous implications.

So CO is almost certainly mafia.

Oh sorry! I didn't mean your post. I thought Jarvis was referring to mine.

[DeasVail]

Hmmm, I'm thinking a CO lynch is better than a DV one.

[DeasVail]

So is there no chance of a Shamrock lynch at all?

[DeasVail]

My mind is set. If you want a DV lynch you are:

A) Dumb

So true.

Why not Shamrock anymore, Matt?

[DeasVail]

sigh

[DeasVail]

I'm masons with Shamrock.

[DeasVail]

I'm taking that as a joke

ok

[DeasVail]

DV waddya think about Sham going into lylo pushing your lynch?

We were going for this big dramatic twist at the end where just as Shamrock is about to hammer me, he reveals that we're madly in love and that he would never hammer me, and then we catch the scum (See 1204). I admit it was my idea, but I realised that maybe it was just a little bit ambitious?

Also, VT, although I have claimed before (and I've said this before as well).

[DeasVail]

Also popcorn shamrock.

[DeasVail]

And, I'm actually going to start taking this game seriously again and will try and sort out my reads and stuff.

[DeasVail]

Ok, I don't know what I can do to show you otherwise, but I'm town and if we could just lynch MSH or Shamrock or

anyone

(except me) that would be amazing.

Like, could you look through my ISO again or something and reconsider?

Or maybe a deal would work!

If you lynch someone other than me and they end up being town, you can direct my vote the next day! How does that sound? Unbelievable, right?

So yeah, I don't know what to do...

[DeasVail]

I thought the modding was great Nexus

Sorry to town for my bad play, especially to Shamrock!

And well done scum for getting the win, particularly MattP. You had us all completely fooled!

[DeasVail]

I think it was because of him actually putting the sig there in the first place, not any mod-related action, but I didn't think he was conftown, just likely town.