WWE Attitude Era 2.0 Game over nWo'd

[I Am Innocent]

Children....with rage. That is who I blame for the downfall of our society!!!

vote WrathChild

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, and anyone that can tell me the name of Sotty's hydra avoids my vote D9.

[I Am Innocent]

Pappums, what are you doing?

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: The Gobbledy Gooker

No. Get out of here, you abomination.

Do you not believe the claim?

[I Am Innocent]

What wrestler are you dude

Okay with this.

LOL

He claimed his role already

The wrestler he is is flavor only, according to rules.
Im just curious.

This too.

Seriously, i want to know which ****ing wrestler are you if you already claimed your role.

Still no problem.

Cool

I just want to know what ****ing wrestlers there are in this game, man

. I really like wrestling, only reason I joined this game. lol

Underlines is where my gut is getting a little queazy.

If that was the only reason for you asking, why not wait until a player flips? Why the need to know now?

I assumed you wanted to see if there was a correlation between the wrestler and the power, which I myself was wondering. But the curiosity thing, I don't buy it.

Will finish catching up, but as of this point, my #1 suspect right now.

[I Am Innocent]

Okay.. I didn't think the curiosity about the name was anything to consider scummy, his #34 seemed far too defensive to me though.. :/

FoS: Pidgey.

Post 34 felt defensive? Not to split hairs, but 33 or 37 I'd agree with. And why no vote, feels like possible distancing without officially bussing.

Do you have a habit of not participating in RVS? Can you link me to a game where you do this?

Im not rolefishing at all.

You could say im flavor fishing, which has nothing to do with roles or allignment.

So why did earlier say it was a curiosity about what wrestlers are in the game vs flavor fishing? Why the deception?

rolefishing

town motivation

hows that work brody?

Well we already know the role, so it's sort of understandable to want to know who the hydra is claiming to be

I just don't think pidgey would be stupid enough to be so obnoxious as scum.

So why do you think he wasn't fully honest earlier?

Im not rolefishing at all.

You could say im flavor fishing, which has nothing to do with roles or allignment.

This.

The role was already revealed. You say you're a fan of the subject material so it's totally understandable that you'd want to know the character.

Same question for you?

*****************

Consider me a fan of Sawyers post 51.

*************

Sawyer: Thats me getting in the conversation between IaI, Elmo, and Gobbledy.

Also, i really dont know if they would both die if they are both town telling the truth. I figured only the vig would die in this case.

also LOL NERVOUS EXCUSE, not really. I really just want to know which wrestlers are in the game. Ever since ****ing post 11. If someone is gonna be claiming a fkn role, theres nothing bad in asking their wrestler flavor, too.

Your timing on joining my wagon, while also asking players why they did, is noted though.

unvote: vote sawyer

Bad post, bad vote.

Question for you, if only one of Inte and Gobbledy Gook were town, who do you think it would be? I'd lean towards Inte with Gobbledly Gook a possibly scum aligned paranoid cop owner. So a town vig dies and Gobbledy Gook only proves they are a paranoid cop owner with alignment still unknown and you think that is a good thing?

Once again, I still see a disconnect between "wanting to know which ones are in the game" to "wanting to know their flavor"

[I Am Innocent]

PGOs don't die if they're targetted, iirc. It's a great fakeclaim for a Serial Killer to pull, as it means he won't be targetted for the NK and can coast to the end. Most PGOs, from what I know, are lynched regardless before LYLO

If most PGO's are lynched regardless before LYLO, why is that a great fakeclaim for a Serial Killer?

Put that together, and I'm definitely not liking the Pidgey wagon. It stinks to high hell. The only negative towards Pidgey is the OMGUS vote towards Sawyer.

What do you think about Pidgey giving multiple reasons for wanting to know what wrestler GG is?

WWE recently announced JasonT1981 would take over head of creative and he went right to making an

impact!

Now, sure, including the word "impact" in the intro could just be Jason1981 messing with us, but I'm thinking it might mean that the Scum team is made up of TNA guys. If that's the case, flavor fishing is just as ill-advised as role fishing.

For someone who has not followed wrestling since the early WWF days and only joined this game to play Sotty, can you explain a little more about this TNA thing? Also, if that is a way of catching scum, how would flavor fishing be as ill-advised as role fishing?

Man, you're really going out of your way to make Pidgey sound bad, aren't you? Found yourself an easy target already, huh?

VOTE: Sawyer

I'm inclined to give Pidgey the benefit of the doubt here.

How is rolefishing ill-advised and pidgey not being scum lined up in your mind? And then to go against his main attacker with a vote?

That's true. The only real time someone would quickhammer is if their scum. I see your point. Good thinking.

So why no vote as of this point?

Well rolefishing isn't the right name...character fishing. If Pidgey was scum and his team WEREN'T given safe claims (which a few games I've been in haven't had them) knowing characters would be helpful. Though my Jason mod meta suggests that scum have safe claims but I'll have to look through my qts to confirm.

What do you mean by safe claims?

WAIT WTF

HOW DID YOU KNOW zzz

im really scared of pappums right now

I would like the answer to this as well.

NM, I saw your answer.

i

honestly

didnt like pidgey's eagerness to let me shoot the PGO

seconded.

unvote WrathChild
vote Pidgey

Also okay with the Lance wagon at this point. I am not on board with the inte or Sawyer wagons at all.

[I Am Innocent]

ITS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Flavor fishing = Curiosity
.
.
.
So yeah I wanted to see what stupid *** wrestlers were in the game

Why not ask everyone their wrestler then? Why just TGG if it was strictly curiosity?

Why would a PGO be scum? This is a bad point and you should feel bad for thinking it. Sure, Inte looks more town, ill give you that. But if TGG was scum he is NOT a PGO. (INB4 you ask the question "HOW DO U KNOW DIS!!!"

"Paranoid Gun Owners are more often Town than scum."

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _Gun_Owner

[I Am Innocent]

So did inte with his fake claim. Why didn't your curiousity lead you to ask him as well when he said he was a vig?

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI-safe claims are you know claims that are safe. I'm relatively certain you've been scum in a game of mafia before so you claiming

NOT

to know what a safe claim is seems kinda off.

Never heard the term before. I've heard fake claims, it sounds like the two are synonomous.

1.

UNVOTE: IAI, LEG DROP (Vote): Inte

The whole Vig claim and back out is extremely scummy. My read on that turn of events is that Inte thought it'd be a good fake claim to go with as scum until he realized that it was extremely problematic in combination with a PGO. Not only was his claim going to be tested, it also opens up the design for an absurd amount of Kills night 1. I think at the point he realized that he needed to retract his claim. I don't buy, the "Oh, I was just kidding" excuse.

2. Admiral's bash and stroke of Snake is a contradiction no mater how he defines the term, "First Impression".

Chop (FoS): Admiral

3. I think Pidgey's "fishing" was too bold to be scum. I think scum would probably avoid that scrutiny at all costs.

4. Nero, are you still mad at me from Star Wars?

1) Disagree. No point to draw attention that early for scum.

What benefit did inte get by claiming vig?

What is the scum motivation there, cause I don't see it.
2) Disagree. Admiral has come off as town to me.
3) No, unlike TGG and inte who were obvious about drawing their attention, Pidgey's fishing felt more subtle. So I think you have it backwards actually.
4) Don't care about.

Probably is awesome since he is from ROH, but when i joined an attitude era game i expected wrestlers like brethart, austin, taker, new age outlaws, etc, along with newer talents like cena, del rio, etc. So you can see my surprise when i got someone i have probably only read his name and never watched in action.

And you are probably right in that he is better than 80% of the roster. Independent wrestlers are generally great, they just dont commonly sell money that well.

Question for everyone not named pidgey...Did you really care what wrestler you got?

@IAI-safe claims are you know claims that are safe. I'm relatively certain you've been scum in a game of mafia before so you claiming

NOT

to know what a safe claim is seems kinda off.

Yeah, that set off my scumdar as well.

So you think I have heard the term safe claim before, lied about it, and the scum motivation is what again???

********

David's 180 feels off to me.

********

By the way, Internet Stranger is playing exactly as ive always seen him play, and he has been town on those other ocations. Later on he'll focus on a player and wont rest until that said player is lynched.

But I do agree that we are out of RVS.

And you gathered this from his one post where he says he is basically not ready to play yet?

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI: I already explained the scum motivation behind claiming Vig, but will again:
1 (NEW). Scum claiming vig have no risk of being shot because of it
2. Scum claiming Vig can make NKs with risk of being tracked or watched as long as they can justify it as a vig shot.

Inte's claim was ill-conceived no doubt and if he would have just went back on it right away I would have had no issue, but he rode with it long enough to imply that it was a serious claim. He only backed out because people jumped on his Kamakazi attack on GG suggestion. If no one had supported that idea like he was probably hoping for, then I doubt he would have backed out.

1. I have never seen a game this large with only 1 NKing faction. Either multiple scum teams, or an SK (or both). Either/both of which would see a town vig as a threat to get rid of. So I don't agree.

2. This makes no sense when combined with #1. So you think there is only 1 scum team, hence 1 NK. And at night then, the scum is going to pretend to be a town vig and make the only night kill??? Wouldn't the absence of a "scum kill" be kind of obvious???

2. Also, if the scum claiming vig is going to justify his kill as a vig shot, he needs to target non-townie type players to make it believable. Not a good strategy for scum to box themselves into on Page 1 imo, as the townie players who will never be lynched, will also never be nk'd.

This is a contrast to Pidgey's OBV fishing (also, in my opinion, sufficiently explained by Pidgey) which is a much faster death sentence to scum than claiming vig.

If it is such a much faster death sentence, why did the Pidgey wagon never go beyond 4 or 5 votes?

And why would it be a much faster death sentence to scum than town? I would think the other way around as scum would protect their scumbuddy by not voting him for that...(which goes along with the prior question of why the wagon stalled)

[I Am Innocent]

IaI - I have played twice with IS. Once in a game called DC Universe, another in New York 144. Both times, he started the game saying he hates RVS, he doesnt give a **** about RVS, and later on he focused on a player he thought was scum and tunneled the hell out of them. So yeah, from his one post where he says he is basically not ready to play yet, I gathered that information. I dont agree we are in RVS at all anymore though.
Anyway, do you like being a **** and asking questions that make you look so sure of yourself? How about you give me your opinion on IS?
How about this IaI? You say I was 'subtle' about the way I fished. You keep saying how 'scummy' my actions have been. Vote me. Put your money where your mouth is. If you think your case on me 'fishing for flavor names which have nothing to do with game related content according to the mod rules' is good, go ahead.

First of all, my vote is on you.

As for IS, I have a null read on him so far this game due to his lack of posting. Obv I would like him to participate more, but I am not going to push for a policy lynch on him. My philosophy is to let mods and prods handle the lurkers, that it is not the town's job.

I too have played with him, unfortunately the one game was lost during the last time the site went down. So I have no idea how often he posted in the beginning of that game, my memory not being that good, esp since I was a replacement that game. Overall I found his play very scummy that game, despite him ultimately being town. The last day before the mod decided to call it, I had my vote on him. Also would have vig'd him if he did survive that lynch. So I will keep that in mind when he finally does start to participate.

[I Am Innocent]

Is the pissing match over yet?

Not quite....give me one more post.

So your opinion on IS is basically the same that I had on him when I made that statement? You knew some of his meta, just like I kind of do? What motivation could you possibly have to ask it to me?

I have a null read on him, but from your original post, I felt an implied town read based on the combination of the two underlined sections.

By the way,

Internet Stranger is playing exactly as ive always seen him play

, and

he has been town on those other ocations

. Later on he'll focus on a player and wont rest until that said player is lynched.

But I do agree that we are out of RVS.

Was I wrong that your initial read of IS was implied town?

[I Am Innocent]

Pidgey seems town to me.
IS is obv town.

So who is scum?

[I Am Innocent]

Inte 3 - PranaDevil,Elmo,WrathChild
Pidgy 3 -I Am Innocent,DavidX,Nerodoesthesplits,

You guys really need to find your way onto better wagons (like elmo or CJMiller) because these ****wagons have been debunked already.

CJMiller does not feel like a better wagon to me, feels like the easy mislynch target of the day actually. Elmo's is still a possibility, esp if he continues to fail to produce scum reads for me.

But right now I feel good about my current vote, so it's staying where it is.

Why is that? Is there something about DavidX that you think we should know? (And when I say "we," I'm referring to those of us who have never played with him before.)

Interesting that you felt the need to point out what 'we' stood for.

I never played with pretty much half of the people here myself. So I have on what half of the players do as a play style.

There's more to this game then meta. How about you stop making excuses and list every thing that has touched your scumdar. And then pick one to go with and actually vote someone.

Alright I just reread that sequence and I still see it as him joking around.

Disagree. And the fact inte continues to post his reasoning for the claim (looking for reactions), I am not sure where you are going with this? Either you believe him, or he is scum. Are you saying he's scum? If so, 283 is contradicting...

@ everyone What are your reads on Nexus, WC and Snake?

WC has hit my scumdar, the other 2 have not.

We have a lot of time and there are 5 votes on CJ

At what point in the day is it okay to take someone to L-7?

***************

@mod, just want to verify that it is really 12 votes needed with 21 players? (11 is majority, which is what I am used to seeing.)

[I Am Innocent]

Why is that? Is there something about DavidX that you think we should know? (And when I say "we," I'm referring to those of us who have never played with him before.)

Interesting that you felt the need to point out what 'we' stood for.

...how is that interesting, exactly?

The we felt obvious to me. The only other we that might make sense is we as in my scum team....so the need to clarify it is not your scum team caught my eye.

[I Am Innocent]

I like an Admiral or Lance or Forehead lynch.

Maybe you could start by placing a vote on one of them?

PMysterious, I would like your top suspects list and a vote from you as well.

[I Am Innocent]

PM, I know you just died in that NY game, so no more excuses. Unlike CJ who has left a voting trail, you have one vote this game, on a lurker (IS), and nothing else. Time to start playing already.

unvote Pidgey
vote PMysterious

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod- V/LA until Monday the 13th.

I would like your comments on the CJ and PM wagons when you come back. I also want to know if your top 4 from a week and half ago has changed.

[I Am Innocent]

========[HAMMA TIME!]

Oh and for my reads. Why do you need a full list about everyone in this game?
CJ & Pm are scum.
Poppums is obv town currently

VOTE: CJMILLER

Do not like. So you pick the easiest two targets as scum, and your one obv town read is not so obv to me. Also, what happened to inte? You had a vote on him for 2 weeks and now he is not a scum read anymore?

@All, when scum claim D1, have you ever seen them claim Vanilla Town? Also, if your vote is on CJ, I want to know if you find him scummy or at this point it is a policy lynch?

PM, thanks for the reads. Please keep playing.

unvote PMysterious
Vote Elmo TeH AzN

[I Am Innocent]

2 scum teams because of the randy orton flavor and the kills

And a vig or an SK

This is my thought to.

I need to do some rereading to see who opposed the CJ Miller lynch the strongest. That seems like a good place to start.

Why is that a good place to start? Where do you think his teammates would most likely lie:

1) At the front of his wagon, pushing from the outset?
2) Hopping on when his lynch became inevitable
3) Ignoring the whole situation while pushing other wagons?
4) Actively opposed to it?

I'd say 2 and 3 based on my experience. What do you think?

Also, if your vote is on CJ, I want to know if you find him scummy or at this point it is a policy lynch?

What's the difference? Given the flip, this question looks anti-WWE.

Why? Because I thought CJ was town and I wanted scum to have to take a stance on whether it was a policy lynch or not?

Now that he has flipped town, why is this anti-WWE. Is it because you think I was defending a scummate?

Also, why did you never change your RVS vote D1? And why didn't you ever vote CJ?

I need to do some rereading to see who opposed the CJ Miller lynch the strongest. That seems like a good place to start.

The problem with this stance is that it's generally not how mafia work. With cj in particular, who looked so bad, I imagine there would be a fair bit of distancing. If I was scum-partners with him I would have been on his wagon

Well said.

Of the non-confirmed-town and non-myself list I like pappums, nexus, sawyer, snake, pidgey.
Which leaves pmysterious, lance and elmo.

If this is multiball, and CJ only had 2 or 3 likely teammates, I don't know if I see him vote hopping on one of them.

Of people on his wagon, he did vote pappums, Pidgey, and PM, so I okay with leaving those 3 alone for now.

Lance and Elmo are great targets on the wagon.

I am fine with either, but early play D2 points to Lance.

vote Lance

[I Am Innocent]

Why? Because I thought CJ was town and I wanted scum to have to take a stance on whether it was a policy lynch or not?

Now that he has flipped town, why is this anti-WWE.

Is it because you think I was defending a scummate

?

1 and

2 are really the same question and my answer is yes

.

I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI and

i kinda think he might be from the OPPOSITE team of CJ

. It looked like asking if people were voting CJ more for policy or for scummyness was a way to set up his votes for the next day.

vote: IaI

Yup.

That's the initial vibe I got from him too

and why I feel pretty good about my vote right now.

Per the 4 underline statements above, can you tell me why your story is all of sudden switching?

[I Am Innocent]

Also, why did you never change your RVS vote D1? And why didn't you ever vote CJ?

These two questions are the same also.

I was indifferent about the CJ wagon

. He didn't scream scum but certainly didn't do anything to make me think he was Town. I'd still be ok with a DavidX lynch, tbh, but he didn't take an active role in attempting to stop the CJ lynch and you did. That's what ultimately nudges you ahead of him in my scum list early this morning.

Underlined is exactly what I would have expected from a scummate of CJ avoiding his wagon.

Tell me this, what is your response to the question I answered for you at the end of the day yesterday [where you asked if anyone had seen scum claim VT Day 1]?

It surprised me. But the fact you knew this and still were not on the wagon leaves me even more suspect.

Likely CJ teammate on the wagon: Lance
Likely CJ teammate off the wagon: Yates

Why is that a good place to start? Where do you think his teammates would most likely lie:

1) At the front of his wagon, pushing from the outset?
2) Hopping on when his lynch became inevitable
3) Ignoring the whole situation while pushing other wagons?
4) Actively opposed to it?

I'd say 2 and 3 based on my experience. What do you think?

Hrm. That's a good point. Thanks. I do have to wonder, though: I fall into category #1, but you're voting for me -- why is that?

I see ThAdmiral already answered this. And while your position on the wagon might seem like a 1, you hardly pushed it. I saw you as more of a reluctant 2, or maybe you need your own category. The key is, you seemed very reluctant when you placed that vote, but then today acted like you masterminded the wagon from the beginning.

[I Am Innocent]

Ok, I'm back from VLA. I need to do a careful re-read, but my initial skim makes me still like an Elmo or Lance or Admiral lynch. Yes, I still want to lynch Elmo's slot even with a replacement coming. More later.

What about the Admiral to you find scummy?

[I Am Innocent]

I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI and i kinda think he might be from the OPPOSITE team of CJ. It looked like asking if people were voting CJ more for policy or for scummyness was a way to set up his votes for the next day.

vote: IaI

Yup. That's the initial vibe I got from him too and why I feel pretty good about my vote right now.

Yates, I read your other post and still have no idea what "the initial vibe I got from him too" represents here.

Please take exact words from his quote, because I still don't see anything you agreed with other than "I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI"

And what is your thoughts on Lance?

[I Am Innocent]

Lance, what is your thoughts on Yates?

[I Am Innocent]

Still here, just fell behind as one game just ended and a 3rd is in a critical stage sucking away most of my attention. Will catch up and post thoughts here shortly.

[I Am Innocent]

Skimmed through the last few pages, need to reread what is going on, but here are some of my thoughts prior to the reread:

Count me in the group that likes WC posts/analysis. I feel comfortable saying he is town.

Still like my Lance vote, but the Kuribo wagon is a good counter wagon. Not sure I like the PMysterious one.

Having trouble believing we have a PGO and Bulletproof on our side. With that said, I like to ask the following questions:

@ Kuribo, do you think TGG is town Paranoid Gun Owner?

@ TGG, do you think Kuribo is town Bulletproof? Also, what happened to your Lance read? You pushed Lance hard D1 from what I recall, but now you seem to be against that wagon. What changed?

[I Am Innocent]

Catchup time.

@Yates, Post 537. Your "MATCHING GAME TIME!!" for item #1 suggests that you think I am on the opposite team of CJ. But that is not what you said initially. One more time, you think I am scum right? So do you think I am on CJ's team or another team or not sure anymore? Serious question.

@WC, Post 545, I still read Lance from D1 as scum who is not sure if they should bus cj or not. So not sure I agree with the group you included him in.

@TGG, Post 586, I think Yates and Lance may be teammates. Their answers to my questions about each other did not change that. Yates answer for Lance felt very similar to his stance with CJ actually.

Still say that at least one of Kuribo and TGG is scum. Actually starting to sway toward TGG on that one.

@TGG, this was all I found on why you suspect IS: "Still waiting for IS to scum hunt" Any other reasons? If not, how about others that have been laying low, like PMy?

Like my Lance vote and don't foresee moving it.

[I Am Innocent]

@TGG, this was all I found on why you suspect IS: "Still waiting for IS to scum hunt" Any other reasons? If not, how about others that have been laying low, like PMy?

Have you ever seen IS play as town? He's bold and obnoxious and his play here is nothing like I'd expect if he were town. I can forsee almost no way we move our vote today because I'm that confident in being right.

I have. Unfortunately that game was swallowed up during the last site crash. From memory though, yes I remember a bold, obnoxious player.

My question to you is have you ever seen IS play as scum?

*************

@kuribo, any reason why you haven't placed a vote at this point?

[I Am Innocent]

I believe WC. He was in no danger of being lynched today, and the theory of scum WC saving teammate PM doesn't make sense if he is saying he is going to vig PM tonight. That more than offsets my disbelief at 4 NKs plus a possible PGO adding a 5th death.

kuribo's defensiveness and retaliatory attacks against obv town is very unsettling. I still say at least one of him and TGG is scum, and if he is a bulletproof SK, one less kill tonight will help slow down this game. The more I think about it, the more I don't understand why a bulletproof town wouldn't have attacked the claimed PGO more. Instead, his attacks have gone elsewhere.

unvote Lance
vote kuribo

[I Am Innocent]

"Why haven't I attacked the claimed PGO more?"

Are you stupid? I flat out said he was lying scum.

Words are cheap in my book. You had all day to vote said "lying scum", instead you retorted "because I'll vote whenever I damn well please and not until" and did not place a vote until PMysterious.

And what exactly makes Wrath "obvtown?"

Was it his defense of CJM?

Was it his bull**** case against Elmo where he calls Elmo CJM's buddy?

Was it the fact that he can't decide whether I'm scum with CJM or an SK?

Was it "trolololol lots of NKs"

Was it his tunneling on easy-to-lynch slots?

Was it his giving a ****ing free pass TO THE PERSON WHO WAS CLAIMING HIS ROLE?

by all means, explain why this derp is town

Ah, I see what you are doing here. Trying to say how wrong WC has been while scumhunting/discredit him. Do you think town has all the answers? What makes people town are their motives. Aside from his scumhunting, there is zero motivation to saying D2 that there is a 4th NK in this game if there is indeed not a 4th NK. If one does not pop up, or we continue to see 3 NKs with the same flavor, he is a dead man walking.

So since I am buying the 4th NK flavor whose shot was blocked last night for now, he is either:
town vig
SK
part of scum team.

SK/part of scum team does not add up because 1) that would mean one of the 3 NKs that went through would likely be a town vig who would either CC or take a shot at WC tonight 2) you put yourself at risk with other scum teams/SK 3) why come out with this now? WC was in no danger. You say it is to defend PMysterious yet he suggest that player as a vig target N2.

Nothing lines up other than him being a town vig who is trying to get information out there that is beneficial to town.

[I Am Innocent]

Look at the proof. Read my ISO. Why would I keep saying at least 3 killing factors. I suspect two scum teams one town vig and an sk, who probably a bp one based on your reaction to the slip, which I don't deny, hence my willingness to kill him tonight. I also suspect kill flavor is real and that I'm the only town vig. My pm says THE town vig.

It also says I kill with fire

but I can't confirm that till tomorrow.

For sawyer...underlined added.

[I Am Innocent]

This is a good point against PMY and I disagree with Yates on his interpretation of it.

I can see why my reluctance isn't obvious based solely on what I have provided. The rest of it - the part I didn't want to have to make public - is this...

Anyone that has played with PM knows he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There are other roles [read: VERY Town roles] that would also know that we need to be looking for "Outsiders." My concern is that PM might have one of those roles and be under the delusion that VT is a good fakeclaim.

So your thought is PM is a cop, has a scum guilty in the form of "outsiders", but has not come forward with the scum investigation, instead has fakeclaimed VT, and with someone saying they are going to vig him tonight, and he continues to go with VT rather than come forward with the scum investigation.

[I Am Innocent]

So we have a cop who investigates NWO and a flipped Insider and still not one night death of a non-townie. We also still have 3 players dying at night after the town vig has been killed. This doesn't bode well for Mr Kuribo not being scum or an SK.

If I had to guess right now, we have a team of 1-2 living Insiders, a team of 2-3 living NWO, and a SK.

Couple of people asked for my read, here is what I got so far.

Lance is scum. Sure of it. So sure I am ready to vote that:

vote: Lance

Kuribo, if scum, is most likely not an insider, which could explain the lack of dead players at night from NWO/SK.

@Nexus, nice try, but Yates's suspicion of me D2 was that I was CJ's teammate, which would be an insider not NWO as he investigates:

Why? Because I thought CJ was town and I wanted scum to have to take a stance on whether it was a policy lynch or not?

Now that he has flipped town, why is this anti-WWE. Is it because you think I was defending a scummate?

1 and 2 are really the same question and my answer is yes. I like ThAd's idea and consider his tact to be perfectly legitimate. I'm coming at it from the opposite side of the coin, though. I agree that there is likely one bussing scummate *IF* there are 3 scum on his scum team. My only concern is that it is too early to know what we are dealing with here and I don't think "Insiders" are the main scum group. I don't actually know what "Insiders" means per Randy Orton's flip but it certainly LOOKS like we are dealing with multiball and likely a vig kill.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking so I am approaching it thinking that I can find 1 or 2 scum off the CJ wagon since even in multiball teammates likely don't want to take too many actions together in order to avoid associative tells. By my math, ThAd's pool is 9 and my pool is 7. So I like my odds better.

[I Am Innocent]

Yates was Christain, Town cop assigned to finding members of the nWo Cracked over the head with a lead pipe night 3

"Members" is plural, so I am assuming a scum team over a lone SK.

[I Am Innocent]

CJMiller didn't mention Lance at all. Getting more and more convinced they're partners.

He did vote Pappums (the only player alive that hasn't flipped yet).

He also voted your predecessor.

[I Am Innocent]

Claim: Cop (to determine Insiders)

Here is my crumb, which is the first letter of my first 3 posts...

Children....with rage. That is who I blame for the downfall of our society!!!

vote WrathChild

Oh, and anyone that can tell me the name of Sotty's hydra avoids my vote D9.

Pappums, what are you doing?

My investigations, which up until last night, were all 'not Insider'

N1 I investigated WrathChild, which is why I kept calling him obv town and voted Kuribo when he attacked WC.

N2 I investigated Kuribo, who is not an Insider. If Shotty is telling the truth, that means Kuribo can only be a SK, which lines up with him being bulletproof.

N3 I investigated Lance, and he came back Insider.

N2&N3 investigations were crumbed in my 1st post today.

I think it is important that we hit scum today. Hence why I am coming out now when nobody followed my earlier Lance push.

When Lance flips insider, hopefully our doc is legit and will protect me tonight.

[I Am Innocent]

Investigated Sawyer last night and got an Insider result, though to nobody's surprise as he was killed by SK/NWO last night.

If that is the whole insiders team, 1 neighborizer and 2 goons, then my guess is nwo is left with 2 goons as well, with the flipped roleblocker.

I think we must assume that it is 2 vs 2 vs 1, and lynching the SK is auto loss for town. If NWO gets lynched, SK could finish off NWO at night, but if SK is bulletproof like I suspect, we would at best finish 1 vs 1 entering day 6 with a pass and SK win.

Must hope that Kuribo is truly bulletproof town, and we get a draw. Tho my gut still says SK would be the one most likely given BP with this many town to start. Either way, Kuribo is off limits in my book.

Will reread MOI's slots to see who is likely NWO. I will be voting Pappums, Nexus, or Snake today based on what I find.

[I Am Innocent]

I am Triple H.

[I Am Innocent]

However, IaI's guilty saved Snake's ***

Actually, it saved Shotgun's butt. He had 3 votes in a row, led by an NWO MOI. Who else got on the wagon of the backup NWO cop prior to my investigation on Lance announcement:

Sawyer (Insider)
Snake (?)

Based on the information today as well as the info above, I actually think I am leaning towards Snake.

[I Am Innocent]

PS - Snake was also the 1st to follow me on the Lance wagon post investigation announcement. Pappums was no where to be found, which is not what I'd expect from NWO at that point.

[I Am Innocent]

Thinking out loud for a minute

If it is 2 vs 2 vs 1, we either:

1) lynch the SK, NWO NKs town, game over NWO
2) lynch NWO, which allows for town to still have a chance to win
3) lynch town, which means NWO will shoot SK and SK will kill NWO and draw?

If it is 3 vs 1 vs 1, we
4) lynch SK, town NK'd, 2 vs 1 with a reasonable chance at a town win
5) lynch NWO, town dies at night, town lynches SK for the win
6) lynch town, same as #2 above

Assumptions: Kuribo is truly BP town, and Nexus is truly the SK.

That means to me that Pappums and Snake are both scum in 1, 2, and 3 above, or one of them is scum and the other town in 4, 5, and 6.

With 2 NWO cops and 1 Insiders cop + lack of night kills, call me crazy, but I wouldn't say it is impossible this is a 15 vs 3 vs 2 vs 1 setup. Esp if the 2 have stronger power roles (roleblocker + ? is already > neighborizer).

Since #1 has already been established as an auto loss, I think the SK is off limits today, but based on #5, I think if the next day starts with 3 players, SK should be auto lynched.

Kuribo has been investigated by both cops, and with a claimed SK, he is also off limits. If he is scum or some other 4th, 5th, whatever party member, hats off to him. I'll personally nominated him for a scummy.

Which means it is me, pappums or snake.

I think the 3 of us should vote first, the order decided by Kuribo, followed by the SK voting 4th, then Kuribo, if needed hammers.

If there are 2 NWO left, the 3 of our votes will not matter as the townie would be voting for NWO guaranteed based on the assumptions above. It isn't until the SK votes that a pile on would have to be worried about.

If there is 1 NWO left, then same issue. NWO's 1st chance to hammer is not until the SK votes. The key difference in this scenario is that town has a much better chance at winning by nailing the last NWO today and removing one of the NKs. That is secretly my hope, because all else feels like a long shot at anything better than a draw.

Please state whether you agree or disagree with the underlined plan above.

[I Am Innocent]

If Snake flips NWO, and only one person at night dies, I still concede that the best move to make D6 is to lynch the SK and hope Snake was the last NWO.

If there is only 1 NWO left, I still concede it is likely Snake. The guy who seemed to know that MOI or someone on MOI's team was a roleblocker pre-flip.

vote Snake

[I Am Innocent]

Lol at no redirector. Was wrong there.

Good game all. Thanks Jason for modding, and thanks to my teammates for helping me break this long scum losing streak!

[I Am Innocent]

PS - Sotty knows me as scum and called it early d1. Surprised she didn't push harder than she did actually. Her flaking was key to me surviving in my opinion...