Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Eidolon]

/ confirm

[Eidolon]

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

[Eidolon]

Hey everyone, I'll be posting more in a couple hours. Just thought i'd say from a very quick skim, i like the seastorm votes.

[Eidolon]

K. Caught up.

I really don't like brandi's posts and i def. don't agree with her theory but i don't think she's scum.

I like amrun's attack on sucrose. She's backtracking with very minimal pressure. I also don't really like the vote on seastorm after seastorm said she'd be v/la for the next 3/4 days.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

Also, DGB, you seem very confident in your reads for such an early stage and you aren't providing much reasoning for them. What is so skecthy about camn? Voting without a reasoning? What is so bad about that...? IT get's pressure going and gets people thinking. What about Seastorms posts are too dingaling for scum?

[Eidolon]

Fujiko, it's not really contradictory because i'm not calling her suspicious, just trying to get more of a feel for her reasoning behind her reads. camn just put a vote up, she didn't give any reads. as i said before, votes without reads are valuable in garnering reactions and driving up pressure.

Sucrose, if it was an rvs/ not serious vote, why did you respond to amrun in a way that was serious? why not just say it was rvs when you were asked about it?

Also, don't you think your reasoning for springs vote is exactly what spring herself did? Find something to talk about without really talking about much that had gone on in the thread so far. Brandi did more than just talk about theory, she defended Piggy, which meant she was taking a stance, not just throwing general sh!t out there for the sake of it. Spring on the other hand, had more of a fake reaction, because she pointed out something that wasn't scummy and avoided talk of anything else.

[Eidolon]

okay. so then let's get technical for the sake of arguing then. Brandi didn't talk about NOTHING either. she obviously said something.

Rather, Springy was avoiding taking a stance on the larger issues in the thread to focus on fake scumhunting. Saying that brandi talking about theory, which is useless, does NOT make her scum. Which means that springy was picking on something just because it gave her something to talk about. Her attempt at scumhunting was fabricated.

[Eidolon]

^ that first line might have came off as a bit rude. sorry, just tired.

[Eidolon]

@ tammy.

Telo: I find that scum are more likely to pretend to blend in, so they will fake scumhunting, rather than just outright ignore it all together. Telo is so out of the loop. This has me leaning slight town on her so far.

Huntress: Her post was earlier on, so it didn’t stick out as much to me. I would like to hear more of her, though I’m still slightly more suspicious of Spring, because at the time she made her post, the game had developed, so there was a lot more to talk about. Her vote just seemed fake especially given the poor reasoning.

I wonder why you say that my attack on spring is more of a personality than affiliation tell, yet you have your vote on huntress for essentially the same reason?

@ Spring: You say talking theory is generally pointless and thus anti-town. But is pointless behavior scummy? Is brandi scum?

You say you don’t understand the sucrose wagon so why not ask some questions about it?

Piggy- wait wait. You say your wagon was bussing you? You know what bussing means, right?

I kind of am just getting newb town vibes from piggy.

I’d like to hear more from CityElectric too. City, how much experience do you have? What is wrong with voting without reason in the initial stages of the game?

[Eidolon]

Flinter, you realize that since that post, camn has only made one post, and it was a vote? So she's essentially stayed away from everyone besides that one person.

Your analysis is speculative, but interesting, and something to keep in mind.

What are your thoughts on the piggy wagon? What about some of the other wagons that popped up? Do you find camns sheep on amrun to be suspicious as well?

[Eidolon]

a lot of stuff going on in this game. hopefully i will have some good reads after i'm done reading through. tonight or tomorrow.

So far, i'm liking DGB, amrun, cityelectric, maybe tammy as town.

Camns 136 sits odd with me. the decleration of townieness, the unvote, the way she used kill instead of lynch, idk. just giving me bad thoughts.

don't really like bunny either right now but not sure.

[Eidolon]

I feel like camn was helping to derail the piggy wagon with the sucrose vote, and then when she started taking heat for it, decided to bus.

of course, that assumes that piggy is scum, but i'm not even sure that she is. let me iso her.

[Eidolon]

You voted on the counter to her wagon.

People started saying "oh camn is scummy, she voted without reason"

(which i agree isn't scummy in and of itself, but they might have had an accurate hunch)

And then you decide to go after piggy, once more people seem to think she's scum...

I mean, it's not that difficult yet you seem to not be able to figure this out. Scum like to play dumb.

[Eidolon]

Anyways, this was just something that stuck out at a quick glance. i'll go over in more detail tomorrow.

[Eidolon]

Camn, I used pretty clear logic to dismantle the "insult instead of logic!" that you threw at me in your post 169.

I had to put a little snip at the end to respond in kind

But the misrep and continual avoidance of my point is noted.

[Eidolon]

Piggy - I’m leaning slight town on her. I think she gives off newbtown vibes because she is squirmy under pressure, but not overly defensive, which newb scum usually are. She’s throwing her thoughts out openly. Some of her posts are bad. But what makes them scummy? The RVS is something I’ve seen newb town do. The response to that pressure is open and careless. That doesn’t sound like scum! she’s been bombing, but she‘s not even TRYING which seems town. Piggy, what are your thoughts of the wagon that popped up on you?

Need to hear more of:

Flinter
Bunnylover
Mathgirl

Scummy:

Telo - her response on the piggy wagon. She is very wishy-washy about it. It gives credence to my thought that piggy is town, because she’s nervous to put a vote up for a town. Anyone catch her 145? Really bad. Reads are seeping with the need to hide. Her 130 brings O.o Telo, please tell me who are your strong scum reads and who are your strong town reads?

Camn - Pushed easy wagon only once it got a lot of support. No scum hunting. Claims to put her vote on sucrose for reactions, gives NO READS on those reactions. A strange 136 which is really fabricated. Camn, what are your thoughts of reactions to your vote?

Fujiko- Weak pushes, weak defense of piggy, no scumhunting. Look at the ISO. Fujiko, what do you think of piggy and telo at this point?

Piggy would be nice as scum, because it would make camn and telo obv to me, but I really think that she is confused town. O.o

The rest I have town to null on. Will give town reads if needed.

I will support any of these wagons in my scummy section and they all need to be pressured more.

Vote Camn

Really don't like that she voted sucrose for reactions and has given no analysis of those reactions. i don't like her easy push on piggy in replace of that analysis. i don't like her response to my earlier pressure on me and would like to hear more of her actual reasoning behind her play so far.

[Eidolon]

^dont like her response to pressure from me^

I still have sliiight scum on spring. if we look at the largest wagon right now, i think one scum is on that. i'd say likely huntress, possibly mathgirl though her initial post had me leaning townish.

But i feel strongest about camn and telo.

[Eidolon]

(Yes, ignoring eloidian. Can't find a productive reason to engage, given lack of factuality)

Fact # 1. putting a vote up for "reactions".

Fact # 2. a few people call camn out for her vote.

Fact # 3. Camn disregards her initial vote, puts no analysis up of the "reactions" she supposedly was looking for, and sheeped the popular wagon, of a newb.

Fact # 4: continual buddying of DGB.

Fact # 5: Dismisal and denial of points against you. (i gave a reason for calling you suspicious. You insult me and say my reasoning was bad. I provided more reasoning and insult you. You call my whole case an insult and say i'm scummy for what you were doing.) major hipocracy and unwillingness to reason.

Sooo.. we've got:

fake scumhunting.
Going with the easy wagon. not even attempting to pressure or question that person.
buddying & sheeping of the person who apparently often takes the town leader role.
Dismisal and denial of points brought up against you.

Don't wanna defend yourself and actually do some scumhunting, no? Just gonna lay around for a while, eat some bon bons, not give a fuck? It's really becoming of scum.

[Eidolon]

^hmm. i changed my vote to camn.

unvote, vote: camn

Ah, so you did. I missed it, sorry.

[Eidolon]

piggy. uhhh what? you think camn is scum for SCUM HUNTING?

when was camn scumhtuning, btw? point this out please. was it when she put her vote up for YOU?

I cant tell if scum or just VI. O.o

What is this point about reactions to your self vote? Who on that wagon voted you for scummy reasons and who voted for legit reasons? You say that it's scum flailing, but then give town reads on contributors of your wagon, and call others null.

[Eidolon]

Btw i have a pretty strong townread on amrun. I'll get back to camn's post at some point. but i'm kinda more null on her now, to be honest. Have to re-evaluate a bit to make sure.

[Eidolon]

i think piggy is at l-1.

don't rush a lynch. i want time for the less active people to post some more.

[Eidolon]

I don't think so? She's only gotten three votes that I see since 206, and she had 3 then.

That said, I agree with your point.

oh.. for some reason i thought it was 7 to lynch.

anyway, regardless of that whole gambit, i'm still for the most part getting confused newb town vibes from piggy. the reaction kinda supports my idea.

Cityelectric....

[Eidolon]

Drip,
Do you have a response to 236? Do you know something we do not?

this game.

[Eidolon]

Dayvig: Piggy

This dayvig doesn't end the day and we still have a lynch.

@DGB: You do realize that all the possible roles are in the OP and none of them makes a mention of a dayvig? So, unless there's some rule I'm not aware of, this is fake.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

i'm actually with camn on this. that reaction to the gambit seems really really bad.

unvote, vote: cityelectric

[Eidolon]

To huntress:

So you're basing your read on Spring on your read on Brandi's action?

No, that's not it at all. I was basing my read on srping based on her own reaction to brandi.

@ Eidolon: In a game of eighteen players, do you think that all eighteen need to take a stance on everything/just the major issues, or is it all right for some to look elsewhere? Particularly in view of the fact that who people looked at can be telling later on, after getting some flips.

It's def. okay for people to look elsewhere, but to me, it seemed that what spring chose to focus on was insufficient/grasping. So, a bad read, mixed with that being the only thing she talked about, was odd to me.

[Eidolon]

instead of asking what was going on,

I asked and didn't really get an answer.

your question was directed to dgb, so i never answered, but basically it was just for a reaction.

Anyways, hey tammy, it's not just that she didn't understand, but she voted DGB instead of asked about it, and the reasoning for the vote seemed over justified, and a bit awkward.

[Eidolon]

tammy, what are your scum reads atm? still huntress?

[Eidolon]

I think the fact that she voted for DGB INSTEAD of ask her about it is a pretty strong town tell. She's new, newbscum tend to be nervous, and DGB has been active and aggressive, exactly the type of person that newbscum tend to not provoke and catch the attention of by voting. The fact that she came at her rather aggressively by pointing out that it was a fake, and in her eyes therefore lying, reads really town. Likewise does the utter confusion over being voted for it.

Hmm. That actually makes sense. I had a slight town read on her before, so

unvote

Flinter, out of those in your list, who is most scummy? Is it still camn and what about her play don't you like?

Still thinking along the lines of telo-fujiko-spring for scum options.

Fujiko, what do you think of piggy's reaction to dgb's gambit? was it sincere?

[Eidolon]

Piggy is confirmed town BTW.

finally. THANK YOU!

Let's make some analysis of the votes on Piggy. Getting right on that.

[Eidolon]

Please bear with this quote heavy post. it's critical to keep the quotes in so we can really analyse the wagon of a pretty clear townie.

Sucrose is

trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone;

this is what i find wrong with fujiko. more on her later.

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

OMG! So it's not just me?!

FOS: CityElectric, Brandi, Telo, Amrun, Huntress, Tammy and camn

for all confirming before me, very scummy thing to do.

VOTE: PiggyGal15
Because I'm always the Day 1 mislynch when I'm town May as well get it over with...

Spoiler: *sigh*

DUCK! Haha, get it?

Pokemon reference...

Sigh... duck... Psyduck... yeah...? Funny?

Thanks camn, but this one here is scum.

A bunch of FOSs, and a self-vote?

And then the scum laments that they always get lynched day 1. I smell a fear of "disappointing the team" from the get-go.

Obviously, from the FOS list, her partners are at least CityElectric and Huntress.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

Jump the wagon off and getting us out of RVS quickly. Good. town.

I actually agree with DGB here. It's obvious that pg was going for a joke, but it comes off as awkward and I think it's trying to hide something.

VOTE: piggygal

Helping to get us out of rvs. gives good reasoning for early on. townish.

vote: PiggyGal15

Did a meta check, she has made long introductory/weird posts before as scum.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18721

@Amrun: Statistics show that most scum is caught during the RVS stage.

Reading meta, noticed a contradiction. shows she's actually voting based off her own reasoning. townish.

About the RVS thing... Not really? Usually you want to get out of RVS as quickly as possible, I find. I mean, I've found a few minor tells that occur only in RVS, but if RVS ends naturally then it's nice that it's ended, and that was pretty natural to me.

That said.

Vote: Piggy

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

She gave this reason kind of prematurely. piggy hasn't even had the opportunity to respond to the pressure yet. Slightly scummy.

MY VOTE IS LONELY

I don't understand the seastorm wagon at all. Biggest pusher please explain.

VOTE: piggy

Amrun didn't give a reasoning here, but she had given one not a couple posts above this. This actually seems townish to me because she's not worried about over justifying anything.

Telo votes are good.

Based on Post 213 I know I won't lose any tears over a Piggy mislynch. I have no words.

Yes, I know and I agree. If anyone else had posted what I did I'd be prompting them for a vote as well so
VOTE: piggy

I find it weird that she chooses to "agree" to a piggy "MISLYNCH" in response to the same post as being called out for being scummy. Also.. this response just seems... i dunno.. so strange. Scummy.

I don't like post 130 isn't unflattering. It's honest and honesty reads town.

Point.

@ Fujiko: Is Eidolon still your top scum read? What did you make of her reply to your post 102?

Eidolon's reply - while I don't really agree with it, it made post 100 make sense to me.

Is she still my top read? No. I've been looking for somewhere else where I'm comfortable putting my vote more than anything.

Piggy's post 213 looks pretty bad to me, honestly. (Although I don't get the seastorm wagon either.) Until then, she looked like someone who was new. (Many of us in this game aren't far behind.) I don't like the scum philosophy bit at all. I was looking at the self-vote as a nervous joke, not a reaction test - as a reaction test, the nervous newish player makes less sense.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

I don't like that she had to be called out for where her vote was in order to change it (to the most obvious wagon.) This paparapgh is way over justified because she gives reasoning for not just thinking piggy was scum, but because why she had a town read on her before, and then changed it. this shows that she's concerned about what people think of her/ what they will think with a mislynch. plus she doesn't explain what is scummy, just points out some things she doesn't like, which shows lack of true understanding/conviction of the wagon.

This, plus her whole ISO, which is really wishy-washy and appeasing, makes me feel good about a

Vote: Fujiko

she's been scared to push or voice opinions. Most of her posts seem to be agreeing (buddying? with people.) She hasn't been scumhunting. she put her vote on me, with reason, but never pushed me or followed her lead at all. she let her vote sit latent and moved it to the easy wagon once asked about it.

I think i missed a camn quote on the wagon analysis too... but i already talked about that, so whatever.

[Eidolon]

More on fujiko:

Fujiko, what do you think of piggy's reaction to dgb's gambit? was it sincere?

Piggy's reaction: eh. A bit scummy - she likes to talk, and she's not doing much talking at all in those two posts (they are the two shortest posts of hers.) Given her talk about reactions, it's quite possible she's just playing along...

Also, "I'm vanilla town" is in the present tense, not past, although I may be reading too much into that.

This looks so much like she doesn't really believe in piggy scum, but is attempting to find reasoning to be on her mislynch, without having to take the blame for it later on.

PEDIT: what is white knighting?

[Eidolon]

Do you mean egging it on without voting?

That's definitely something to consider.

[Eidolon]

The only things that stick out about that are me saying you seem newb town, and tammy calling you a mislynch. But i'm town, and i think tammy is town.

Who else was defending you?

Huntress was pretty much the first person to vote somewhere else when the piggy thing sprung.

One other thing, Mathgirl gave reads on just about everything at that point EXCEPT piggy. odd.

I'd say fujiko, mathgirl and huntress are good leads.

[Eidolon]

Actually, bunnylover and sucrose voted elsewhere in the midst of the piggy thing too.

i have to read back over it, focus on motivations, and try to narrow it down some.

but i think fujiko is a good person to be pressured. if she's town, she's not doing it right. and she might be scum.

[Eidolon]

So how should I be doing it?

Not to give too many tips to scum, but you are playing reactionary rather than proactively. If you are town, we can discuss this more at endgame if you want more info.

The post you just made? reactionary. You unvoted as a response to pressure.

You never really thought piggy was scum, did you? You said her response was fakey, yet now that others say it's townie, you unvote. It's the actions that matter. You just wanted a place to put your vote to appease people and make it look like you were contributing.

So you think piggy is town now? Who jumped on her wagon for scummy reasons? Who avoided the wagon for scummy reasons?

DGB, what do you think of fujiko? Who are your scumspects?

[Eidolon]

Sucrose is trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone;

makes a vote based on an entirely false premise, then backs down on it immediately.

Knowing I am voting her, after seeing me express suspicion of piggy, buddies me.

When did she do that? I think you're town amrun, but i don't have a scum read on Sucrose. I'll take a look at her ISO.

[Eidolon]

Eidolon is town.

no sh!t

(DGB is town. It's probably too obvious to be pointing out though.)

[Eidolon]

Oh yeah.... I'm still not sure why you answered her in a serious way if it wasn't a serious vote, but ehhh... i wouldn't say its overwhelmingly scum motivated.

I see in your iso that you say you are leery of telo, ask a few questions to amrun and brandi. do you lean scum on any of these people? why the lack of pressure?

[Eidolon]

So you think piggy is town now? Who jumped on her wagon for scummy reasons? Who avoided the wagon for scummy reasons?

What do people do when they don't know where to put their vote, anyway?

Well you use it to pressure people, or scumhunt by questioning, pressuring, and analyzing, then put it on your scumread. you can't expect other people to tell you who the scum are - you have to figure it out for yourself.

a good way to start? answer the question i bolded.

And... i'm not so sure if she's scum now. idk, idk. telo's not a bad option though.

[Eidolon]

sorry, i'm here. caching up now, will probably post more tonight or tomorrow.

[Eidolon]

Allow me to explain camn. Yes, I can quote and reply but let's say I wanted to quote and reply to one point made in this particular post. Let's say I wanted to respond to paragrah 4 sentence 3.

I'd have to quote this whole big wall of text just to answer one line. And then let's say my response would ideally include a post from page 4. Well I can't go to page four. Once I start typing on page 8 (or whatever) I can't move to another page to support my arguments. It's also very difficult to truncate quoted posts and only respond to the things that are pertinent. Too many times have I tried and effed up one character of code that messes up the formatting and then I have to start ALL over. So if there was only one thing I wanted to say about this post I'd need to post the entire thing then make another post for my supporting arguments and if there were multiple supporting arguments I'd need to make another post for each one.

Yeah, no. I will not be doing that. That much work would suck all the fun out of playing this game. What I am willing to do is let you know when I'll be able to properly respond and let you know why you may be seeing me reading the thread even though I'm not fully participating at this time.

To the person who suggested I go V/LA; thank you but I didn't want that banner across my avatar in other games so I didn't think that was a good solution

.

so what you're saying here is that you are participating in other games, but not willing to [put the effort to] respond to pressure in this game?

i'm going to read before i vote, but you should probably die.

[Eidolon]

Townies under pressure go to enormous lengths to prove they are town, and get their reads in before they die.

Scum often give up, and find muuuch more difficulty in responding to pressure when they think they are figured out. O.o

And you basically ignored pressure to write up this whole thing about how you can't be bothered.

Just type up your responses in an organized way? who cares about quoting to every little thing.

(maybe i should read first before jumping to any conclusions though, so don't mind me..)

[Eidolon]

okay, yeah.. i feel good about this:

unvote, vote telo

[Eidolon]

oh hey, btw. since there's daytalk, if telo flips scum, it's probable that her partners are bussing. otherwise, they would have told her what to say in response to pressure. the fact that she's just not really saying anything means someone thinks they are getting away with bussing her..... they are more likely to bus hard than softly in this instance. if i end up dying, look at hard bussers please

[Eidolon]

hi all, just posting to say i'm here. i'll be back later today to post analysis.

[Eidolon]

I typed up this long post explaining my thought process of finding my reads, but i probably won't post it unless requested. instead i'll just post a condensed version.

I think we have better odds lynching off telo's wagon.

tammy, seastorm, springlullaby, amrun, huntress, apokolyptica

I have reasons to believe that tammy, amrun, and springlullaby are town, so i'm going to leave them be for right now.

Seastorm - After telo wagon forms, she doesn't post until quite a few pages later. Her post 409 on pg 17 is strange. She lists telo as her top scumread but votes for huntress instead. This is strange. She hasn't offer much analysis, but this particular post was very lengthy. Her explination for voting huntress was that she was waiting for telo to come back to answer the questions. I also remember that her reasoning for voting piggy was off. Slightly Scummy.

Huntress - Huntress posted right when the piggy wagon started forming, without mentioning her at all. Immediately after springlullaby voted for brandi, huntress came in and voted for brandi for "meta" reasons. This seems like an attempt to form a counterwagon to telo. Scummy.

Apokolyptica - She was katy bard when the telo wagon was forming. She unvoted and didn't say much else besides catching up. In 323 and 327, she starts pressuring telo, without adding a vote. This seems scummy to me. Like she has to be seen supporting the wagon but doesn't want telo actually lynched. Scummy.

At this point, i think one of these three, and specifically one of Apokolyptica & Huntress should be lynched today.

I'm gonna finish catching up, and maybe looking at potentials on telo's wagon, before putting up a vote.

[Eidolon]

Ahh, i see apoka has 3 votes already. I'll go ahead and add to the pressure.

Vote: Apokalyptika

I'm seeing Brandi and Amrun as solid town. Eidolon, springlullaby, and camn are all null/leaning town. Fujiko's kinda scummy; no strong stances, treated Telo way too gently. RachMarie's also looking pretty bad; combining Telo's attitude towards her with a completely null posting history (with the exception of her particular comment on scum daytalk, which seemed unnecessary and an excuse to claim a lack of knowledge about it), I'm more than happy to put on some pressure here.

Vote: RachMarie

I'd like to see some reads with conviction behind them, at the very least.

This last statement doesn't sound like someone who thinks they have an actual scumread. It's just coaching.

You also have some pretty mild reads that seem to be commonly held. You say Rach and Fujiko look bad. What posts in specific were too mild from fujiko to telo? You also don't have very strong stances and aren't pushing your scumread hard. Why does that make fujiko scum and not you?

Do you have any other scumreads? Do you think telo was being bussed? Who was scum off/ on telo's wagon and why?

[Eidolon]

My apologies, got myself sucked up in some RL drama.

Eidolon, yeah, I admit that I don't have strong scumreads like I do strong townreads. That doesn't mean that the scumreads are dishonest. Also, given that we've all beaten to death the fact that scum have daytalk, talking about in-thread coaching doesn't make any sense. As far as fujiko, she's been a yes-woman this whole game.

I'm a little bit frustrated, actually. Normally at this point I've got at least one scum read jumping out at me that I can firmly sink my teeth into. Most people in this game are still null to me, and my strongest scumread is, I have to admit, implicated by circumstantial evidence.

I'm not really feeling the Tracey wagon. It's definitely annoying that we don't have some ISOs from her yet, but I don't think that her spacing them out has any benefit for her as scum.

First of all, i never implied that you were

coaching a scumbuddy.

Your line directed at your proclaimed scumread was not centered around pressuring them, which implies that you

don't believe in your scumread

and know you are pressuring town.

So you admit that your reads are not strong, and that was your attack on fujiko. So what makes her scum, if you are using those same "scumtells"?

You also never answered my question about which of fujiko's posts were too light at telo?

If fujiko is one of your scumreads, why are you ignoring talking about her in this post, when i asked you plenty of questions that could segue you into taking a stance or applying pressure? I had to reask my questions because you are just outright avoiding them to talk about how you don't have any good scumreads. Scared to ruffle town's feathers?

What circumstantial evidence are you talking about?

Hey, everyone, i shouldn't have to be pulling Apako's teeth to get her to scumhunt. Vote this scum.

[Eidolon]

she told us what the benefit was for her as scum.

woah what. tracey?

let me read her.

[Eidolon]

Okay. these posts are bad. way bad.

Well actually, yes. I don't have a good memory, so I often have to look back at my reads even when I'm town.

Scum slip?

I like keeping them all together. Easier for me later on.

So why can't you just copy and paste it? or just look at it and type up a quick list?

Town shouldn't care if they change a read on someone that they posted a different opinion before. I'm now cool with a Tracey lynch as well...

I didn't say that. I said I have a bad memory. I.e. I don't remember my reads. It's not a matter of them changing. It's a matter of me forgetting what reads I have and why I have them.

I took it as you saying you wouldn't know what your reads were at all if you didn't double check.

Oh. No, I'm not

that

forgetful.

Uhh, what? These posts directly contradict each other. Either you remember them, in which case your excuse for not saying them is BS, or you don't remember them, in which case your backtracking on it is bullshit.

Granted, stubborness doesn't make you scum, and in fact town can be more stubborn than scum at times, but your changing story makes it seem like you just have nothing and are pulling poo out of your butt to explain your lack of reads.

Explain what is so difficult about copy & pasting the reads that you "kept in one place" or making a quick summary of them?

[Eidolon]

Hmm.. tracey seems more like stubborn town to me. I don't think scum would be adamant to the point of basically saying "deal with your scum read on me"

We don't have a long day phase this time so if you're going to be giving your reads you should probably hurry up. it's better to get some out than none. just copy & paste them all into one post when your done, if that's what your concerned about.

[Eidolon]

Hmm.. tracey seems more like stubborn town to me.

Stubborness isnt' a tell, it's what she's being stubborn about that is scummy. Kinda like Telo being too stubborn to claim.

yeah the fact that she's delaying giving her reads is odd. but does it make her scum? look at the way she defended herself.

Let's put it this way: would a scum who is scared to give out reads be bold enough to use the defense that holding out is worth people having a scum read on her?

[Eidolon]

Aaaand they came around on tracey. knew they would.

First, I read my personal employee evaluation to get a sense of how well TL reads people. Not very well is the answer. Of course I knew there is no dayvig. There's never any dayvig.

Hey goofball, notice how when you come around, they all come around? can i get the recipe to that, secret ingredient and all? cause it seems like you've whipped up a might deadly potion

Anyways, i wouldn't mind another push on camn. I'll have to iso her more carefully. i remember when i pushed her on day 1, she convinced me, but my radar never fully stopped hummin.

So... rachmarie. yeah, you never really pushed your so very accurate scumread on telo. Whats with that, rach?

There was something i wanted to say about telo wagon. Normally, it would be pretty STUPID for the scumteam to bus their PR on day 1. but i noticed a few things about the telo wagon:

1. No strong counterwagon.
2. There's daytalk yet telo didn't know how to defend herself.

Leads me to believe that about around the time telo came back squawking to camn about how she couldn't be bothered responding to pressure or claiming, (Can't remember the post #, but notice it was aimed at camn?) there was already probably a scum or two on her wagon. one of them was probably the gf, thinking that town will never think maf pr will be bussed, and they can ride the rest of the game by their coattails.

Granted, it's just a strange hunch about day 1, and i still think it's pretty beneficial to lynch off the wagon, odds and all, but it's just a thought. and i'm still pretty suspicious of apaka. would like to hear back from her.

[Eidolon]

I just thought i'd make a list to help clear my own head.

Towny:

Piggy
Brandi
Tracey
Tammy
DGB
Springlullaby
Amrun
sucrose


not sure:

seastorm
fujiko

Slight scum:

huntress
camn
rachmarie

scum scum:

apokalyptika


I still think apakalyptika is a better lynch option than rach. I think there's more evidence to back it up. the replace ins, the opportunistic pressure without a vote from katy at telo, apakalyp's poor reads, no pressuring, fake scumhunting, evading giving reads when asked.

That being said, rach should claim. i'm not sure what the vote count is, but i don't think apaka is getting as much traction, and i don't mind switching if it comes down to it.

[Eidolon]

If I were scum I would have bussed Telo even quicker AND earlier!

so then who did that and why aren't you pressuring them?

[Eidolon]

Not everyone is as good of scum as me
And really.. I think I was clear. I think the scum were LATE on the Telo wagon.

Was I unclear about that? really? Or are you just picking up anything you see?

Well there we go. blatant cognitive dissonance. Another scum caught.

If you see scum motivation in being early on the wagon, theres no reason you should think scum were late to the wagon.

Just because you think you are good at being scum doesn't mean scum are full of bad players who would only bus predictably late and weakly.

You are purposefully underestimating all the other players to make your viewpoint seem consistent.

Town wouldn't do that.

[Eidolon]

Also... although I AM backing off now (I too am under the GoofSpell).. are you also characterizing the last couple days with Tracy as not-pressure? This is a real question.

puting words in my mouth. nice.

no, i asked why you weren't pressuring anyone for the scumtell that you mentioned.

[Eidolon]

Well there we go. blatant
If you see scum motivation in being early on the wagon, theres no reason you should think scum were late to the wagon.

I DONT. Thats why I do it as scum. Because it is so anti-scum, it snookers the town.

Just because you think you are good at being scum doesn't mean scum are full of bad players who would only bus predictably late and weakly.
You are purposefully underestimating all the other players to make your viewpoint seem consistent.

Except most of them are. Are you areguing that the scum ARE in the front of the wagon.. and I am intentionally avoiding them? (another question. Note the difference between questions and 'putting words in your mouth'). Or Do you think what you actually just wrote.. that I am underestimating people?

Town wouldn't do that.

I just did.

Now seriously- you dont need to answer my questions defensively.. you should ask them of yourself.
Do you think I am protecting someone... or that I am arrogantly underestimating people? You cant have both. Either I really think the scum suck.. and I am looking for them... or I AM the scum, and I know who my partners are..... and almost all of your post is irrelevant.
I honestly wonder which it is?

Because if you are town.. you aren't thinking critically, which is bad for us.
If you are scum, you are using these superficial quasi-logics to setup a crapcase.

I never said that you were protecting anyone. Except maybe yourself. Again you are putting words in my mouth for what i apparently think you're doing that's scummy, and it makes me think that you are over concerned with how you are perceived.

Also you are missing something. You said that my post is irrelevant because as scum you wouldn't be seriously underestimating people's scum play. Isn't that obvious considering scum don't scumhunt? It doesn't have anything to do with my point. What i implied was that your scumhunting seems fake because you had to alter your scumtells to fit your supposed viewpoint of the game. you went from "scum do this, i'd do this as scum" to "i think scum didn't do this."

If you have to intentionally work against your own scumtells, you aren't truly scumhunting.

assuming

(or rather implying)

scum are stupid is

not

town because it is intentionally narrow, which shows scum motivation. town take in the logistics of the big picture of the game, scum limit their perception when they know it leads to scum. what makes you think scum are dummies?

scum buss day 1 hard all the effing time, it's not that brilliant and contrary.

also, i'm questioning your behavior here, so i have nothing to be defensive about.

if you said you think scum are on the late wagon instead of the early wagon, why put your vote up for rach?

[Eidolon]

Meh. Haven't been getting great reads this game. Just one of those games, i guess. I'll come back later to post some analysis, think i need to do some iso's on some people.

[Eidolon]

Hi all. catching up soon.

[Eidolon]

Hi girls. I know i haven't been active. terribly sorry. i'll hopefully have a post soon.