Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

Hi guys, going to read now

[springlullaby]

Vote Brandi

Discussion about RVS is distracting, what's the point?
It is also fake I think - please point out to me 3 games in which you, Brandi, have found "connections and such much later on after a few flips have happened" from RVS posts.

[springlullaby]

How come ek is not playing

[springlullaby]

Ah. You do not have an RVS vote to place, so you have to find something useful to say. This post is very telling.

I'm trying to understand what you are saying be I'm drawing blank. Do you think that what I said was 'useful'?

I could not link you to 3 completed games on this site, especially not any where I employed such a theory. Not that I would need to- but that's a nice straw man you've got there.
I've read a few of mafia discussion threads on RVS that support this theory, with statistics- as well as discussed the topic with scummers and heard it discussed during scum meets.

Can you explain why you are saying that I'm straw manning you?
Oh so, you posted fluff posts talking about a theory point with great authority whereas you haven't experienced it first hand. Why?
Although it is true most players do think that RVS is not random, it strikes me as empty and fake to be preaching theory that doesn't apply to you.
Especially since in the context of Sucrose's vote - which I personally read as half joke.

It is possible that you just had nothing to say but posted anyway to get the game started as town though.

I find it interesting that you would ask me to link to games to further a debate about something you seem to find distracting, when it obviously does not matter whether I'm right or not. (Hint: I am)

Right about what? Are you really under the mis-impression that I asked you to link games in order to read them or to debate theory?

[springlullaby]

Spring, there was a direct question regarding RVS and it ending early as well as it's merits.
A player landed a vote becaues of such.
I was giving reasoning as to why it was a legitimate and understandable stance, because I had that opinion as well.
Now I did not say that it made DGB scum, though- just that the reasoning could make sense.

I think it's important for everyone to realize how useful RVS is when coming back to re-read, it can help the town late game when trying to determine scum from a pool of less players.
Just because I have not actively looked for such connection in the past does not mean I do not believe in the theory.
It is something that I learned, and have been trying to apply in my comeback to playing this game.
But I could not link you to anything because all of the games I am playing are ongoing.

My older games when I joined the site I did not take such things into account because I was new and ignorant of how to properly play the game.
But I have taken a recent interest in mafia theory and felt the need to express my opinions on such because it did indeed feel relevant.
I even stated that I did not feel like discussing it further past a point- because I felt that is when it outlived it's relevancy. (See: My back and forth with Amrun)

I think you are downplaying the authority with which you held your views now because I recall that you opened that line of argument with "Statistics show that most scum is caught during the RVS stage" , which was out of nowhere, and then followed by a series of post seemingly whining about how it's bad we have lost RVS.
This combined with the fact that you would back up a joke vote as 'a reasonable stance', I find to be off key.
I will retain as true however that you did try to end that discussion.

You jumping on to me and claiming you don't believe my opinions and am therefore scum feels very reachy- and the fact that you suggest that I need to have expressed this in the past is a fallacy.

I and your constant use of schoolbook pejorative mafia-terms - such as 'strawman, jumping, reaching, fallacy - without much explanation is certainly grating on my nerves. I don't know if you are doing it consciously or simply lacking better words.
Please do tell me how I 'jumped' on you. Etc. What fallacy? Complaining about the loss of RVS would sound more genuine to me if you did have past success in catching scum from it.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

Please describe to me what has happened in the game so far that warranted my attention more than Brandi. My position on the subject is what had happened prior to my vote on Brandi was not very interesting.
I think piggy is meh, I can understand the votes but whether Piggy is scum is totally a wildcard at this point. The sucrose wagon I don't get

[springlullaby]

EBWOP

*I do think that you are scummy for the reason I described and your constant use of schoolbook pejorative mafia-terms - such as 'strawman, jumping, reaching, fallacy - without much explanation is certainly grating on my nerves.

=The sucrose wagon I don't get, but it'd be interesting to see how it unfold.
I think talking theory is generally pointless and gives zero info, and thus anti-town. In that Brandi is bad, moreover the point she stood on strongly is paradoxically not very strong, plus her two other votes are lacklustre and follower-ish. But then I do keep in mind that the game is not very advanced yet.
You say in one of post that Brandi is defending Piggy, I'm assuming that you meant Sucrose. If so, I don't see what there was to defend against to begin with.

[springlullaby]

Nowhere was I whining about anything.
And it did not appear to be a joke vote to me, I took it seriously.

Vote: Dripping Goofball

For ending RVS so damn soon.

But if it's any consolation, your username reminds me of slimy tennis balls, not boogers.

Looks like a non serious vote to me.
I don't see how it could have been taken as a serious reason to vote someone.

Also "complaining" you keep throwing words in like that that are completely unfounded.
Nothing about my stance or opinions is that of one who is unhappy or is complaining/whining. I don't know where you're getting that from but it really feels like you are trying to misrepresent me, when in fact all I was doing was explaining why someone had a good reason for their vote.
Which by the way I still don't see how it was taken as a joke vote.

Not everyone has had a chance to make a RVS post. Now if we want to look back at players and see how they acted during the RVS stage, we cant.

Looks like complaining to me.

You do not need to have experienced something to have an opinion on it, that is common sense. Which is why I refer to it as a fallacy.

Oh so you agree you were talking out of your behind in a theory discussion that was unwarranted, but saying it is a fallacy when I call you on it? I dunno if you are arguing with genuine blind faith or scum who just can't lose a point. In any case I'm happy I cut that venue from you.

I don't like your replies and I also think both your votes were weak, the first one on Piggy was a bad one with meh meta reasons - I would expect anyone doing meta to be checking whether they would do the same as town, yet what you did was to confirm if they would do that as scum, it strikes me as a vote that strives to be safe.
Your second vote on seastorm is also meh, I don't see what in thread could have changed your mind about Piggy, and this whereas you have posted a number of posts after the initial vote on sea by huntress.


.............................................................................



I really dislike camn's last series of posts, reason to suspect Piggy are reaching. Piggy reads as a total derp to me, pinning mastermind scum 'coaching' on her is just terrible. Then the whole interaction with Eidolon/City, I don't like at all. The only point in her corner is that City is a shaddy character too.

Town

Eidolon - I liked her line of questioning about DGB, it read right and pot stirring.
Tammy - Town read, although I wonder if you are purposefully leaving out the fact that you were scum in Heterosexual.
Huntress - Town read in last post, comment about sucrose strikes me as town paranoia.
RachMarie - Ok-ish vote on Telo, still less strong town vibes than others.
Sucrose - Not a lot of content but everything said so far is ok-ish.

Null

Seastormjt - Nothing
Amrun - Nothing
Fujiko - Nothing
Bunnylover - Nothing. Will lynch if do not make an effort.

Scummy

Brandi - For reasons cited.
camn - For reasons cited. Only redeeming feature is that the votes on her are not very good either.
Telo - Reads as an endless series of self justifying posts with no content so to speak. Only redeeming feature is she doesn't read as if she is all there.
CityElectric - Awkward to read, one single vote that is very weak.
flinter - Very contrived vote on camn. Do not like.
MathGirl277 - I was meh on Mathgirl only content post but rereading it I decided that I hate it, it says a whole load of nothing amounting to 'I like you, no you!' with a lot of words.

Derp

PiggyGal15 - Hurt my head to read, will lynch if do not make an effort.

[springlullaby]

I forgot DGB, she is in a category on her own as I can't read her anyway, but it bothers me that she is driving it so hard on Piggy whom I

[springlullaby]

*whom I see as totally unreadable.

Sorry I don't know what button I'm pushing by accident that makes me cut my posts.

[springlullaby]

Either Piggy is nervous scum or she is masterful scum purposefully hiding messages in their posts.
You can't have both in the same proposition.

[springlullaby]

Delaying post for one day.

[springlullaby]

In other news, Telo just got picked up by my scumdar. VOTE: Telo (specifically for 238... Telo, do you know something we do not?)
P-edit: DGB!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP NINJA'ING ME!!! It makes me sad.

What is the meaning of this vote? Do you think Telo is scum? If yes, why? If no, why are you voting for her?

@CityElectric, your vote is still on DGB, do you still think she is scum?


I think Brandi is scum.
a)I don't actually think the argument over the RVS was in anyway indicative of alignment, but I think the way she slipped into empty arguing without commenting on anything else reeks of scum caught for what they think are wrong reasons and who take a pointless argument as an excuse to post without actually saying anything.
b) In this game Brandi has popped in thread only to argue about the RVS whereas ignoring everything else: checking her posting history, she posted actual content in other games, where here was a load of nothing and excuses about not having time.
c) The culminating point of the argument with me was for me to 'shut up' because she was right and I'm stupid, followed by apologies. Obviously if for her she is right and I'm wrong but I'm not stupid, I must being wrong on purpose, which would mean that I'm scum. If I'm scum, why apologize or ask me to shut up?
->I never ever seen town apologizing for thinking that someone is stupid.
I think I totally walked into what she thought were little white lies that she could get away with, but when I didn't give up, her reaction was asking me to shut up.
d) I would have cut her more slack if she did show some effort with analysing the game, but upon her re-entry all she offers is a wagonny, follower-ish vote on a wagon with mild traction - in style with her two previous vote.

Other than that, camn's vote on CE feels right to me in how aggressive it is. Tammy is starting to get meh for constant white knighting and asking questions without much follow-up. I don't get the vote on RachMarie as she looks best out of the low content bunch. Which reminds me of BunnyLover who needs to die sooner rather than later. I understand the Telo's vote but I think the wagon is meh as I don't understand half what she is saying. I agree Fujiko sounds very smooth and safe and I don't understand her vote on RachMarie who looks totally out of nowhere, but then they are town moments when reading her and at least her cas on RachMarie is a case. KattyBard is non impressive right now.

Right now I'd be happy to lynch Brandi, Bunnylover, Flinter, CityElectric. And Telo, Piggy for second choice.

[springlullaby]

Spring-lullaby could actually be scum, trying to take advantage of me while I'm on my period.

Oh my god. Die scum die.

[springlullaby]

Such as: She has been tunneling on me all game for no logical reason what-soever- and has been coasting, only posting to talk about me, and not giving any real opinions elsewhere.
Scum have done this to me before.

I gave plenty of reads. Contrarily to you.
Nice to see that you are using the reflect the any points made scum tactic.

lol
nice flailing

I don't believe anyone town would use words with such inexactitude.

[springlullaby]

But no seriously:
Look at the above #330:

She questions Piggy (conf. town's) vote on Telo-
then goes and lists TELO AS POTENTIAL SCUM.

SpringLullably is scum with Telo- guarantee it.

How do you know Piggy is town?
Where were you during the whole Piggy debacle?
Oh yeah, with a dead vote on seastorm.

You make no sense whatsoever, you can't be town.

[springlullaby]

The fact that Spring has Piggy listed as a scum read shows she hasn't been reading this game- which makes it all the more obv she's scum.
Awesome.

Piggy and Telo are to me exactly what I said they were. Derp and more derp.

[springlullaby]

Fallacy and hypocrisy.
You weren't there either.
I was away at a friends, which I stated I would be gone. I guess you managed to not read that either?
I don't have to be there to read through it and understand that Piggy is obv town.

I stated my reads clearly, contrarily to you.
Just because you use words does not make them true.
Yes I read that you were away, but you still managed to post in other games with actual content as I pointed out on this page.
Please ignoring points, maybe they'll go away.

I don't think Piggy is obtown at all. But you flipping scum would definitively make her town.

[springlullaby]

Oh, and "making sense" ?
only scum care about that sort of thing. You have to learn to read between the lines- but I guess you wouldn't know that since you're scum, lol?

You know I would buy that from you if you didn't show knowledge of this particular bit of meta.
Which reminds me of you sucking up reply to Mathgirl which reads as 'oh please ignore my join date, a give me slack as if I were a newbie'.
Die Scum Die.

[springlullaby]

and the next morning my boyfriend literally took my phone away from me so I couldn't worry about mafia games anymore before I got home.
I literally did not have time to check a game that is in D1 with nothing important going on and in such a massive size as this.
So no- I didn't touch this game at all. It wasn't feasibly and I'll be damned if I'll let scum use that as an excuse to misrep me.

Nice try, only you showed up here to argue with Amrun during your supposed VLA. Didn't cover your track as well as you thought, scum.

And me flipping town wouldn't make her scum. What was the point of saying that?
You trying to set something up in the off chance you manage to mislynch me?
Geez you couldn't be more obvious.

Setting up what? Wtf. I refuse to believe in that much dumb.

Predit: yeah nice, your bullshit doesn't fly so you are backing down.
Wait what. Wtf daytalk but what the fuck it has to do with you vote on Telo. Afraid of calling me scum?

[springlullaby]

I keep seeing Telo browsing this forum but I guess she has nothing to comment on here?

Just eating my popcorn and enjoying the show. You're hanging yourself so you decide to deflect attention to me. That's a good strategy. Any other deflection techniques?

That's an horrible post. I'm lynching Brandi or Telo.

[springlullaby]

Prod dodge, skimming through I'm ok to lynch Telo.

[springlullaby]

Earlier I thought that Piggy seemed like a definite mislynch and that her reaction to the dayvig seemed rather noobtown. But, I'm not convinced anymore and I think that anyone writing her off shouldn't. She, since the fake dayvig, doesn't seem as new as she did before hand therefore not as naive. Also, since we now know there's daytalk, that could have been a fake reaction. Basically, I don't like what seemed like a meek start that has turned into a confident, I'm the boss type persona.

I noticed this as well.

Piggy if you are an alt, just out yourself now. Because I read you as a total noob, but yet in recent post you have been using terms such as "probtown" which strikes me as the kind of vocabulary used by more experienced player.

Second, Brandi said that I was trying to take advantage of her on her periods. If that's not bullshitting away, I don't know what it is. If Brandi is town, please receive the expression of my utter disdain for people who would hold that as a valid defence under any circumstances.

Other than that, Telo is either a total moron vanilla townie or scum. If you turn up to be a PR, I'm blacklisting you.

If scum: Bunnylover, flinter, maybe DGB, maybe Sucrose.

If town: Huntress, maybe Tammy. City is scummy in both circumstances.

I am of a heart to take a very close look at Bunny or City anyway.

[springlullaby]

That's terrible Amrun. I don't even have words.
Be brave I guess.

[springlullaby]

What, telo hasn't been hammered yet?

Telo, if you are town with a power role you need to claim ASAP.

1.If you are town, you have no reason not to especially since this is a semi open game, it may be possible to have you confirmed even if your PR is not confirmable.

2. If you are doing it somehow to preserve your meta, you are breaking the rule and merit modkill because it is playing against wincon.

If you are scum, well just shut up and die.

[springlullaby]

^^I totally forgot that you were in this game. Which never is a good sign.

[springlullaby]

Hm,

Mod are repeated roles possible?

1. Telo's play makes no sense.
2. Fujikjo is prolly town.
3. I'm dropping the Brandi thing, with Telo's flip, her reaction to her is probably legit.

I'll reread later and see what I can come up with.

[springlullaby]

@Rachmarie, who do you think are scum now?

I mostly agree with camn though. Looking back, Rachmarie's vote on Telo looks legit, and I think she could have jumped off of it without looking scummy, but yet stayed.
Noobscum distancing is a crap tell too.

I also think Huntress is prolly town, seeing that she unvoted and started whiteknighting Telo very near lynch. I don't think scum would do that if the lynch is going ahead anyway.
Fujiko is prolly town too, seeing that she was kinda the only wagon that was ever close to competing with Telo's, that improves her chances.
--------------

Now, on one hand I have a difficult time wrapping my head around Telo's play in light of daytalk on the other Telo being scum PR must be accounted for, which only makes her play more baffling.
It is possible that a gambit has taken place, since scum role cop sounds meh in this setup - and if power bussing has taken place, I'd say probably DGB-Brandi-Camn, but I'd prefer to leave that can of worms alone for now as I think the earlier waggoner's looks reasonably townie.

The other hypothesis is that the scumteam is relatively inexperienced and don't know what they are doing. Right now that would be what I'd go for since it also fits my earliest suspicions

TraceyLyn11: bad vote on Telo with hardly any mention of Telo herself at all, Traceylyn comes in and leaves her vote on? That strikes me as unlikely town, especially since in the time leading to the lynch she has made no further commentary on the subject beside a half supportive note on Huntress's whiteknighting.
Apokalyptika: Paying for Mathgirl's sins, doesn't say anything during the end of the day and lukewarm vote on Rach is meh.
Seastormjt: Out of the people not voting Telo, I think she looks the worst, her vote on Huntress reads as out of nowhere to me too.
Sucrose: Hammer on Telo is meh. Although redeeming point is that reading her she is very friendly to Teo, which strikes me as less likely to be scum.

Vote Traceylynn

BTW, anytime I reread Brandi, my scumdar jumps up. Putting it there to say I told you so if she ends up flipping scum.

[springlullaby]

^^
Lol this is why I always feel extra guilty entertaining suspicions about DGB.
Having "good observations" from her is like receiving a pat on the head from you grandma or something.

[springlullaby]

1. I guess that wall is ok-ish, although I'd like you to explain how come you are voting on the same wagon than 3 out of your 4 scumreads. How doesn't that give you pause? What is the working theory here. Btw I wonder why you would mention that you let go of the deadline before looking at your role PM. When did you read your role PM exactly?
2. I'm meh on Rachmarie scum as a)Rachmarie doesn't strike me as a particularly mastermind type and rereading her, b)she is actually pretty quiet on the wagon and doesn't look like she trying to reap all the town cred she can from a bus. Although I agree that the lack of content from her beside the Telo thing is bad.
3. Brandi has been posting fluff the whole day, what are your reads?
4. seastorm is contributing zip, same question to you.
5. I agree Sucrose is town.
6. Camn reads pretty town to me.

On the whole I'd prefer an Apok lynch over Rachmarie.
@Rachmarie, a claim and your reads please.

[springlullaby]

1) was at Traceylinn

[springlullaby]

Ah, I missed your unvote, although the post in which you do so is nowhere explicit in your motive. Just making that clear.
Also, the question I asked was when did you read your role PM.

Ok,

Vote Apoka

[springlullaby]

That's true, I missed it amidst the bleh talk about dayvig.
Because I wondered if you were one of those people who play without reading their PM.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, by the look of it Rach may be a good lynch too, BTW the logical thing to do is to run up Apok and vig Rach.

[springlullaby]

Also, I'd like to know why your lynch/vig order makes any difference, spring.

Rach has already refused to claim or provide reads already.
We run you up to maximize coverage.

[springlullaby]

Meh, I'll reread this when I can muster up the energy.

[springlullaby]

prodded will post tomorrow

[springlullaby]

Happy toussaint, on this glorious paid holy day, I shall read this game before going off for prolonged week end.

[springlullaby]

I don't want to rush to a lynch, because I still need to torture Springlullaby.

Hmmmhhh oh yes pleeeease

[springlullaby]

This is interesting given that she wasn't on the Telo wagon, and wasn't strongly predicting Telo was scum, just that she was "okay with the lynch" followed by the quoted post.

Spring also quasi-defends Telo in her first post that mentions her, #177. She's a scum-read, but "only redeeming feature is that she reads as if she's not all there." This comment also came

after

Eidolon had said that Telo was "out of the loop." Spring later describes Piggy and Telo together as "derp and more derp."

I'll wait for Spring to respond to this.

I don't really see what I can respond to. Telo didn't make sense either way, but given the amount of wtf I was ok to lynch her either way. It's true I never felt deeply convinced Telo was scum though, plus I think Brandi was on that wagon too.

--------------------

Reading I don't particularly like how the discussion is centred around NK wifom but a couple of questions first:
@DGB, you are calling Tracey, seastorm and me scum. Why are you voting for Amrun?
@Amrun, so your reasoning is that Tracey is scum because DGB is alive. But then why should Tracey kill Tammy, she had a town read on Tracey too.
@Camn, I haven't caught your reason to vote for Traceylyn, can you explain again.
@Brandi, same question to you. What do you agree with in Amrun's case?
@Fujiko, what information have you gained from your vote on DGB?
@Seastorm, can you explain in two sentence why you are voting Sucrose?

[springlullaby]

DGB, I like you and all but I do not see your attempt at hijacking my questionning as town.

1) If you are town, please do get out of my way. Since you seem eager to know my reads, you answering in place of other and preventing me from in the place of other is counter productive.
If you are scum, am I threatening your control of the game? I do tend to have that effect so you pretty much will have to NK me, I'm afraid.

2) I also warn you, please do not use the collective "us", I'm not a kid you can bully around and it pisses me off.

I can accept the criticism about lurking, and I will do my best to catch up, but you do not get to paint me as 'insulting'. So yes, this is my notice to you that I will do this in my own time and own way, and that you cutting my questionning when I'm trying to establish reads, then voting me is noted.

Because I do want to believe that you are town, I will write your reply to my current post for you: Ok, let's see what you've got, and yes no one is exempted from answering her questions.
Thank you.

[springlullaby]

I HAVEN'T DECIDED AND IF IT KEEPS HER POSTING, WHY NOT.

.

I can accept that. The thing I find most scummy with you today is you have gone on for quite a long time with the NK.
a) I'm of the opinion that trying to outguess the NK is pointless and it is actually playing the scum game because obviously NK are a way for scum to manipulate the game that town has no control over.
b) I can't remember if it's usual for you to be outguessing NK so much.

But then there is the disconnect between your suspicions and the people you are voting for.
On the other hand I think it is ok to pressure people, even though I don't particularly your post directed toward me.
So yes, I'd like you to make your thought process clearer.

[springlullaby]

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

!

Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place!

You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

1. I don't understand what you mean in the green above.
2. The bolded part means that the fact that Brandi, who I thought was scum, was voting Telo for a long time, and it factored in why I was meh on Telo.
3. I said that I never felt very convinced Telo was scum, but that at one point her play was so bad that I was willing to lynch her even if I didn't feel convinced she was scum over the risk of her being very bad noob/derp town. Do you find this scummy, why?
4. Actually now that you are asking this, I remember exactly why at one point the balance tipped over for me, it was a popcorn comment she made in during Brandi/me; it was a weird comment and reminded me of Tofu mafia in which Ectomancer(scum) made a popcorn comment too in during an argument involving me (town) and Vi (scum).

I don't think I ever used the word erratic and I don't really understand what you seem to want to pin on me here. My memory of Telo's play was first ramblings that hardly made any sense to me, then repeated mentions of nook, then refusal to claim - all this to such an exaggerated degree I feared she was derpish townie because it didn't make sense for scum. Out of all these items, the only thing I think I found possibly scummy was the popcorn comment.

_____________________________

Actually what, I just reread the part I highlighted in green. Why would you think Telo was

faking it in the first place

? Over her being really bad scum?

[springlullaby]

Sucrose answer the above please.

[springlullaby]

Spring doesn't seem to have the best attitude in response to DGB's postings, but the way she's wording things doesn't seem to indicative of scum to me.

She did say she was looking forward to me torturing her, I didn't want to disappoint. Then she gets all upset on me! Whatttupwidat....

Errr. Are you saying that your post was humour? What, I don't get it.
A question also, are you voting me for lurking or not providing reads?

[springlullaby]

I'd like to get an answer from Amrun and Brandi too. I'd also like to refrlect DGB's question to Fujiko.
I'm here all night.

[springlullaby]

Oh KRAP, we have only 3 days, and we've had nothing but incoherent nonsense from Seastorm, Fujiko is squirming around voting me for "information" and not asnwering questions, and we received a smatterinng of useless questions from springlullaby.

Springlullaby is the worst by far in completely avoiding to give reads for us to examine, and she's saying I'm bullying her into giving her reads to get her to come out of lurkage.

You are misrepresenting me and avoiding to answer my questions.
But ok, I'd like you to tell me, were I scum, what do I gain by delaying to give my reads?
And are you seriously thinking that my having not voted yet is 'an evil master plan'?
Then there is the lurking bit that you seem to want to conflate in somehow, do you think it is alignment indicative for me to be lurking?

Those are serious questions and I'd like direct answers.

The I do like you but the bottomline to this is: you don't get to paint me 'as avoiding to give read' when you are the one who makes it difficult.
And yes your use of collective 'us' when addressing me is not welcome.

--------------------------------------

Town

Eidolon:

A bit lacking, but D1 still town enough.

TraceyLyn11 flinter:

Flinter I didn't like at all but I think Traceylynn's catch up is townish. Also TraceyLyn is voting DGB today with a big ass wagon on her, which I think shows genuine conviction especially since there is no one high profile backing her up.

Huntress:

Huntress thought process is unclear to me at times but there are 2 items in her D1 play that I see as solid towntells, her paranoia at Sucrose which I think is very indicative of town and her white knighting Telo just before the lynch, I just don't see scum doing that, I'm sticking with town.

camn:

I'm meh with the 'wagon ho's votes, but still rereading there are very town moments. I still like the CE vote D1 which is a really gut-bound aggressive vote that is very unlikely scum.

Null:

Brandi:

Brandi's play I still read as scummy. What is jumping up at me when rereading D1 her is the affirmation that Piggy is town. The thing is when objectively assessing Piggy's play at the time, there is nothing in her play that is town other than DGB calling her town. Then I think her D2 and today's play is not good, especially since I think Amrun's vote on Tracey is really meh. All her votes are kinda sheepish, she is like not pissing anyone off, and the only confrontation she had with me went away. But I do think her interaction with Telo looks genuine. I need to watch this spot because I think to some extent I'm been mollified

Amrun:

Meh vote on Tracey, if you take out the big wifom about DGB being alive, I see just a slip of the tongue tell that is very bleh.

PiggyGal15:

It is difficult to objectively assess Piggy, her spot is just somehow in the grey zone.

Scummish:

Sucrose:

I have a overall townish read, she makes very town comments at time on her but paranoid me is not liking her alignment with DGB after the whole big stuff with DGB clearing Sucrose because 'she is not dead'.

DrippingGoofball:

I really dislike like the massive outguessing the NK thing today which sounds fake and unusual, I've never seen this from her. The thing is she should know that not posting for stretches of time for me is not unusual, and answering questions in place of other is not town. On one hand I'm thinking that it is unwise as scum to be attracting so much attention to this fact on the other, I'm thinking that if she is going for it as scum, that would be the way to do it. I'm putting them in nullish scum but this is in reality an either/or scenario.

Scum:

Seastormjt:

I agree that the whole reason to vote Sucrose makes zero sense. And her interraction D1 with Telo was not good, with a bad vote on Huntress.

Fujiko:

Vote for information makes zero sense D3, especially when associated with '2 pages of reactions' and counting afterwards. You either want a flip or you analyse the reaction.

Vote: Seastorm

[springlullaby]

Scummish:

DrippingGoofball:

I really dislike like the massive outguessing the NK thing today which sounds fake and unusual, I've never seen this from her. The thing is she should know that not posting for stretches of time for me is not unusual, and answering questions in place of other is not town. On one hand I'm thinking that it is unwise as scum to be attracting so much attention to this fact on the other, I'm thinking that if she is going for it as scum, that would be the way to do it. I'm putting them in nullish scum but this is in reality an either/or scenario.

Scum:

Seastormjt:

Fujiko:

Vote: Seastorm

Wait what?

That's kind of a sign that someone is faking reads, when their "scum read" is trying to decimate the scum team by their own admission.

NO????

Springlullaby cannot possibly be town. I repeat: she agrees with my two biggest scum reads today. She knows I pushed hard to lynch Telo Day 1. So she thinks I bus'ed my buddy Day 1, and I'm trying to bus two more buddies today.

HOW COME NO ONE IS VOTING SPRINGLULLABY

In what universe does this make sense as scum reads?

In what universe doesn't it make sense as scum reads?
I distinctly said that it was an either or/scenario.
Did you read me yes or no?

Duh. Avoidance of scrutiny. Being lazy because you don't need to ferret out the scum, you chat with them daily in the QT.

This is dumb-ass scum play. Plus how am I avoiding scrutiny, tell me.

Saving it for the deadline hammer without showing your hand.

This is beyond ridiculous. You have modded as scum, and what you suggest is that I as scum would avoid scrutiny by lurking and to show up and hammer at deadline.

Duh, yes. Scum tends to lurk. Ask camn.

Avoiding the question, I have played more than one game with you, so I'm asking again, do you think it is alignment indicative for me to be lurking?

Oh, I make it difficult, so it's my fault you're not giving reads?

I did provide reads, so what are you talking about.
You created a situation in which you undercut my questioning when calling for my lynch, I'm making it clear that it is what you did and that you don't get to impede me in my scum-hunting and saying that I'm not providing reads at the same time.

-------------------
DGB, you've been making a number posts about why you have 'survived for so long'.
Thing is in all the game I played with you I have never seen you do this.
Camn, Brandi and Amrun, I'd like your opinion on this please.

[springlullaby]

You missed my vote on SEASTORM!! Last page Thanx !

Prodding Seastorm

---

Vote Count 3 - 8

• TraceyLyn11

  (3) (Amrun - PiggyGal15 - Brandi -

  camn

  )

  
  

  DrippingGoofball

  (3) (TraceyLyn11 - Fujiko - Huntress)

  
  

  Seastormjt

  (3) (Sucrose - DrippingGoofball - camn)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (1) (Seastormjt)
  
  
  springlullaby
  (0) (

  DrippingGoofball

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2) (springlullaby - Eidolon)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.

Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-06 20:10:00)

[springlullaby]

@Huntress, no I took my vote off Tracey because her catch up wall was impressive enough and townish, more so than Apoka at the time.

I think Piggy is hard to read, because she kinda has been on cruise since DGB has declared her town. There is nothing that is terribly scummy in her iso but nothing outstandingly town in it either.
I think if she is scum she is not scum with DGB, and is more likely scum cruising under her wind (as far as wifom goes that would actually make more sense to me). Unless in the very extreme scenario of Piggy being a PR DGB wanted to keep over Telo. But that's a remote possibility.

Right now I'm ok to lynch Seastorm or Fujiko. They both are in actuality scummier than DGB or Piggy.