Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[Deltabacon]

Well hey there and hello, everyone. I'm busy at the moment reading up on how to kick all your arses at Mafia, but whilst I'm here I'll put a vote down on BT for having the same name as a woeful Internet Provider.

##VOTE: BT

[Deltabacon]

British Telecomms.

[Deltabacon]

Yeah, with reference to nicknames, I'll answer to anything that looks like me; Delta, Bacon, DB, Deltabacon, pretty much anything.

[Deltabacon]

A random vote, then a vague painting of off-ness between me and Vendetta? Why random vote when you have clearly negative vibes from myself and Vendetta, instead of voting them and trying to resolve the off-ness or develop it?

NINJA'D See above.

[Deltabacon]

Hello everyone! Let's get this show on the road.

So, a random vote for BT from Deltabacon? Hmm... I don't know about a random lynch. Going no lynch right now until we get more clues.

##VOTE: No Lynch

I just wrote something to post in the thread, as I've been waiting a time for this to begin. Also, I didn't think that lynching on the first day would yield anything good, mostly because we don't have any information yet, and it's a wider possibility to lynch a good guy instead of a bad guy.

By the way, is there any chance to change a vote during the day? Just to be sure (I think it does, but I'm not really sure. Looked up around but didn't find anything.)

It's my first game yet.

wow. Didn't see Airick10's first post before now. I guess casting random votes will indeed start a conversation. But anyways, why do you ask?

Seriously, Tierce, why are you trying to portray PS as obvtown? He's a newbie to the game, and has simply applied some common sense to the mechanics rather than actually put anything forward. Why are you painting this as

'obvtown'

play, Tierce? I can't help but notice that you haven't put forward any indication as to why he is

'obvtown'

, which makes me wonder what makes you truly believe he is

'obvtown'

in the first place.

UNVOTE: BT
VOTE: Tierce

I'm looking forward to your reply.

[Deltabacon]

Because you're not backing up your viewpoint, and you've deliberately just avoided it by saying you have better things to do. Why is he obvtown? I want you to take apart the points I made, and tell me why I am wrong. Until then, my vote stays put.

[Deltabacon]

No-one was voting for you until me. That didnt make me think you were obvtown. Thats twice you've avoided my attempt to understand you, and you're telling me to get used to it? I'm not seeing why you're avoiding this. All he has done is apply some common sense to the game and informed people he's new and he's obvtown becuase no-one's voting him? That's a weak argument, Tierce.

Who do you realistically see as scum? At the moment you're presenting some awful arguments and asking people to make their arguments heard, but apart from some light prodding, you haven't actually put across any opinions on reads other than a seemingly random vote on then Sylvant/Ovyo. You say you aren't an advocate of RVS and you pushed BT to form some 'viable reads', yet you haven't put any of your own out with any kind of decent justification. Who do you see as scum and why, at this stage. Give me some viable reads you've come up with, and justify them, like you are oh-so-insistant upon with others.

[Deltabacon]

Airick has the right idea, but I prefer this one:

VOTE: Sylvant

Here, you do not justify your vote with anything, you only state that it heightens the odds of hitting scum D2. But surely it's preferable to at least hunt for scum D1 rather than get someone out of the way? You then proceed to say:

RVS is not a necessity; I prefer to do away with it ASAP and

my ovyo is not random.

But without explaining why it is not random. Is it because of the RVS

(That random vote that was pretty much his only contribution to the entire game)

? I'm pretty sure that nothing else could be derived from his other two posts that could possibly amount to anything, they were a request for help and a post to cancel the request because he figured it out. If he wasn't scummy, why did you vote him? To pressure him? If so, what about Oyvo is scummy? You said that I join them in the scum bin in your post 67, yet you say that you only push on Ovyo to get a better read on them. Is Ovyo scum until you get a better read on her? What about Sylvant's slot was scummy, and what about Ovyo has prompted you to label her as scum?

Two,

I pushed lightly on buldermar and ovyo. The latter because she joined the game with a passive position and I want to get a better read on her

, the former because he's discussing theory instead of addressing the game itself.

I've made quite clear that these two are scumreads. Your attempts at misrepresentation and trying to paint me as scum, apparently without even reading my posts in depth (or you'd see my reads and understand how I'm forming them) or trying to understand my motivation, mean

you join them in the scum bin

.

I genuinely cannot see why you are being so obstructive to my probing, I'm asking you for your reads, but you're holding your cards close to your chest. I accept that you have a townread on Paper, I just don't see why? Has your position on him been reaffirmed or shaken by their most recent contribution however succinct it was? I need to know why you are doing what you are doing.

When scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

Thats all I want to know: Why you have a townread on Paper (Other than not having any votes on him, which is an awful argument.) Why you have a scumread on Ovyo and if it has wavered any due to her recent posts.

[Deltabacon]

I genuinely cannot see why you are being so obstructive to my probing, I'm asking you for your reads, but you're holding your cards close to your chest. I accept that you have a townread on Paper, I just don't see why? Has your position on him been reaffirmed or shaken by their most recent contribution however succinct it was? I need to know why you are doing what you are doing.

She said explaining it is detrimental to the town. It's a

townread

and that's completely understandable. Why is this not enough for you and why is this so important to you?

When she said it, Paperspirit had 4 posts which screamed only newbie, as opposed to screaming town. If it gives me a better insight as to how Tierce thinks then damn straight I am going to ask for it. Knowledge denied to town is detrimental, and knowing how Tierce 'Obvtown-ed' Paper within 4 posts, 1 of which was of no game-related content, and three of which were complete nullreads and an analysis of the facts. You ask why it's not enough for me? Because it's screaming scumhood at me, and Tierce's unwillingness to even contribute to other reads in any serious way serves only to reaffirm this. I want to know why, and my vote will be stationary until I find out.

I'm astounded to see that you managed to avoid the entire part of my post devoted to trying to get her to clarify a scumread as well, are you not wanting to know her actual reasoning for continuing to vote for Ovyo?

[Deltabacon]

Mod, may I ask you to prod Tierce, please?

[Deltabacon]

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

[Deltabacon]

I'm still around, but have had a tonne of homework to plough through. I'll be able to post next late on Sunday, but unfortunately I have to go

V/LA

until then.

[Deltabacon]

So a call for activity, at a point when I was contributing more than Buldermar (who was still spewing theory out his nostrils at that point) makes me odds-on scum? A jokepost as the first post of RVS makes me odds-on scum? That would make me laugh if it wasn't so tragic. Tierce, having been the subject of much of my discussion at that point, do you say I was contributing less than Buldermar, who was talking theory? Is me pushing on you not contributing in any way? No?

Consider the case of the informed minority. Tierce knew that Paperspirit's slot was town, because she's scum. How, in any other way, could she know he was 'obvtown'? You have to ask yourself if you're following the right person, ladies and gentlemen, because Tierce's unwillingness to co-operate with such a menial and unharmful issue shows that she clearly did not deduce Paper's 'obvtowniness' from tells, otherwise as an IC she surely would have put forward methods to help people learn. No, I surmise that Tierce is scum, who slipped in letting it loose that Paper was (from her informed viewpoint) town.

Furthermore, her case on me is derived from a single post from half the game ago, when I was calling for activity. Grandstanding? No, when I was able to keep up with the forums on an hourly basis at that time, and there was numerous hours between posts, I felt fully justified in putting out a standalone post calling for more activity. I don't see that as being any different than Buldermar requesting prods, except I was being more general. This makes me scum? Yeah, no. No it doesn't.

[Deltabacon]

I've been at a graduation day today, and so I am currebtly on my phone. However, I'll be home within the next two hours, so expect a post within the next three. Sorry for the delay at such a decisive time of the day.

[Deltabacon]

I'd highly appreciate a chance to fully explain my actions throughout the game prior to any hammering.

[Deltabacon]

Alrighty, I'm home and ready to go.

I have experimented with myself this game, potentially damaging town in the process. I'm aware that, from games from here and on other sites, I cannot play as a town-reading townie. I can never do it. I figured that instead of constantly searching for scum by being all 'conventional' about it, I would instead see if I could pull off a scumhunt on my own terms, which I believe has worked in some respects, utterly and completely failed in others.

By placing myself in the firing line (by tunnelling on Tierce), I have made myself out to be an erratic townie, who is potentially a strong distraction for scum. I believe that rather than go for an easy lynch and not have insurance D2, scum would rally to me and defend me. Whilst I haven't seen any glaring examples of what could be considered a strong chainsaw defense, I can see why I am an obvious lynch, and why scum, rather than hammering, are looking for me to lynch buldermar in an effort to preserve my own life in the game, making me an even more ideal lynch candidate tommorow. I will do no such thing. I believe, with a fairly high degree of certainty, that both scum are hiding in the buldermar train, and that all the players on my train are townies.

My strong townreads so far include Tierce, Jason and buldermar, and the other's are either null or leaning scum. In an ideal world, it'd be a smaller list to have to draw up, to make the potential probability of hitting scum higher, but I am looking at vendetta21, Airick10, Cheery Dog and Leonshade for my potential scum. The mafia are within these 4 people, from my point of view.

I believe that the lack of desire to lynch yet, shown by both Leonshade and Cheery Dog are the largest indicators of scum I have seen thus far in the game, and I am inclined to pursue a lynch on one of them today. A lynch on me will flip Vanilla Townie, so no great loss, however I think it would be a travesty to not get scum at this stage of the game, in such certain circumstances.

I will happily answer any doubts you have about this post, please, feel free to ask questions at your leisure. I have about 3-4 hours left today to clarify anything, otherwise it'll be about 24 hours from now that I'll be able to post again.

UNVOTE: Tierce
VOTE: Leonshade

[Deltabacon]

And that delaying tactic should seal it for you.

[Deltabacon]

There's no reason why you couldn't be reading the game thus far inbetween posts, skimming and scanning the text for stuff you find interesting and scum-like. I don't see why you're delaying the reading until tommorow, when clearly you are already keeping up with the game's current events.

[Deltabacon]

I'm not clutching at straws, I've come clean about my strategy to catch scum, which has worked, to a certain extent.

[Deltabacon]

To condense down what I said earlier:

I acted scum-like to make myself a useful distraction for scum, which I believed would make them want to keep me alive for an easy D2 quicklynch. I believe this strategy to have worked, and currently I am voting for Leonshade, and looking at Cheery Dog as the second scum. Failing this, the other scum, I believe, are within the 4 people on Buldermar's wagon as outlined in Tierce's 249.

NINJA'd: @Jason I do realise that it's quite based on VCA, but there is a great deal of what I would explain in Tierce's above post. Other than the part about my scumhood, I believe it to be quite satisfactory in being pretty much my case, the quick-swap to save a potentially useful lynch D2.

NINJA'd Again: @Rabbit Yes, I do also recognise that the one of the best ways to follow up is to lynch me, however I'd prefer this not to be the case, in all honesty. As far as I can see, we have a base chance of 50% for lynching scum today, given that we follow the 4 players I outlined. I believe that if we read into the slot's more recent actions, this increases under the two that I have all bu FoS'd.

[Deltabacon]

Yeah, as long as we don't see a mislynch tommorow, I'm happy (well, not happy, but yeah) to see myself get lynched, I would also, however, appreciate everyone to get a say in today about the above, so that any reads can be worked on and solidified going into Day 2. Specifically, vendetta and airlick's view, but having everyone's would be ideal prior to a hammer.

[Deltabacon]

Edit before post: Phone posting, hence the incomplete post. I'll EBWOP when I get home.

Experiences on other sites have shown me that a method like this can work. I had no reason to believe that it was foolproof, yet I did trust myself (to a greater extent than I should have) that I could genuinely perform a strategy of this kind on forum-based mafia. I wanted to try a new method of hunting scum, (since after about 5 years of off-and-on playing, I'm still rather poor at it) I felt comfier this game playing in this way rather than forcing myself to read inbetween lines and play in a way that I have always felt is unnatural and almost annoying to an extent.

I am acutely aware of the tactic I've played not being successful to as great an extent as I'd hoped, especially with the revelation that River and Watson were potentially the same person. However I stand by what I have done, and I stand by the townreads I have, and the probable scun that

[Deltabacon]

I've explained my reasoning behind my biggest two scumreads, my other two are borderline scum/null, as a matter of deduction from whom I think is an obvious townread. Rabbit is also null-ish, but I'm erring on the side of town in line with what I think scum will be doing/have done based on previous experience at this strategy in other games. My strategy didn't seem to stop you from making arguments against other players, as I recall, and invariably any reads you can garner from today's lynch based on reactions to the day's events will assist you in seeing where I am coming from. I realize that I am the probable lynch for today, but if it means you hitting scum D2, leaving you with 6 townies and 1 mafioso, then I believe that to be a good deal. I'm more than happy with a Leonshade lynch today, but if it comes tommorow after a Delta lynch, I think that's (although not optimal) a decent salvaging of the situation, and in all honesty I am

more

than convinced of Leon's scumhood.

[Deltabacon]

And surely scum would want to try and help out a 'useful distraction' possibly lead a lynch on town's arguably most productive member?

[Deltabacon]

Yeah, to be honest the strategy doesn't lend itself to forum mafia. I won't be using it again in a hurry.

Announcing intent to Self-Hammer.

[Deltabacon]

You offered to replace into the game, at which point you could have been reading. Leonshade was posting frequently when I said that, and he could have skimmed over the important points, formed reads and gone through with what he believed to be the case. I find recklessness to be pro-town, since scum don't like being overtly 'out-there'. Scum is likely to be cautious, and as such it makes a convienient crutch to be too busy to read the game, yet still contribute to it. I do not see why it was nessessary to unvote, when there had clearly been at least 12-18 hours of time, if not longer for people to read the game.

Ninja'd: I agree with Buldermar's analysis of Tierce's 282, if only because it directs attention to my two preferred targets.

Ninja'd twice: I truly, truly cannot describe just how certain I am of Leon's and Dog's scumhood. I realise that a self-hammer is suboptimal, however I see it as bringing a mafia lynch that much closer, and since there is two mafiosos in this setup, I think trading 2 townies for a mafioso (barring a doc save) is acceptable.

[Deltabacon]

Way to totally ignore the point I made.

You offered to replace into the game, at which point you could have been reading. Leonshade was posting frequently when I said that, and he could have skimmed over the important points, formed reads and gone through with what he believed to be the case.

[Deltabacon]

Also,

@Mod, please prod Vendetta if not done already. He's been inactive for 4 days now.

[Deltabacon]

So you didn't bother reading the game at all, you all just replaced in anyway?

[Deltabacon]

Well, to be honest I don't think much more can really be said until Vendetta and co post. Under Tierce's direction I won't self-hammer (also, Leon oh-so-kindly offered to do it).

[Deltabacon]

I didn't do it to get people to unvote, I did it to spur people into a final bout of discussion. As it stands I have been asked by Tierce and convinced by both Tierce and Buldermar to not self-hammer, and as it stands Leon is prepared to drop it anyway.

[Deltabacon]

Yeah, I realised that when Tierce and Buldermar argued against a self-hammer, it's easier to get reads on people if my vote remains off of myself. Anyway, I heavily

FoS Leonshade and Cheery Dog

for the reasons mentioned previously, and it remains more optimal for my vote to stay on scum at this point in time.